Wall Street Protesters

[Clak]

[quote name='MSI Magus']http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2011-10-26/why-occupy-wall-street-now-more-popular-tea-party

Diane Rehm show has an hour long episode on The Occupty Wall Street movement today. What makes this a bit different(besides the fact that Diane Rehm actually is pretty fair handed to everyone)is that she has a representative of the OWS movement on for the full hour. She also throughout the show has been doing phone in interviews with people from affiliated groups like Occupy Chicago and SanFran.[/QUOTE]
I love this comment:

When the economy was on stronger footing several years ago Sixty Minutes did a piece on young people coming of age and entering the work force. Employers in need of employees found it necessary to duplicate the playpen mentality these young people were used to at home, no losers and only high praise for even the most modest achievement. Certainly these were not the kind of people you could expect hard work from. Commentary from the parents of these underachievers was one of envy at the acceptance of the needed codling, no surprise there.
Apparently the WW2 generation really grabbed onto the notion the purpose of the federal government was to nursemaid it's citizens. The following generations largely accepted this shift from personal responsibility to government dependency without question. The infantilization of the populace is now nearly completed and we see the outcome in these "occupy" protests. Parents of the occupiers and the occupiers themselves thrash out like spoiled children. The boob tube superficial thought processes that guide this movement should not be a surprise to anyone, and the substantial support for it also is of no surprise.

With the poster most likely being part of those subsequent generations.

 

[Clak]

[quote name='MSI Magus']My dad calls me about as much for it. My wife reffers to me as an old man. I love Diane Rehms show as well as Talk of the Nation and Its all Politics.

On a separate note I found this great chart showing Tea Party vs OWS
http://images1.dailykos.com/i/user/123/Tea_party_vs_occupy.jpg

Sad but true[/QUOTE]My girlfriend calls me the same thing, she hates talk radio. But yeah, love NPR. Science Fridays is the icing on the end of the week.

 

[dmaul1114]

They totally cleared out the Atlanta one last night--made 52 arrests. All out on signature bonds already though.

Have the park cleaned up and barricaded and a lot of cops around it all afternoon today (walked by twice on my way too/from classes today).

It was never much of a protest here anyway, just maybe 20 tents set up in this tiny little park. Were never any people speaking etc. during the times I walked by other than some counter protestors--who were just preachers praying for god to get the protestors on the right path, forgiver their sins etc.

 

[cindersphere]

[quote name='Clak']My girlfriend calls me the same thing, she hates talk radio. But yeah, love NPR. Science Fridays is the icing on the end of the week.[/QUOTE]
To be fair the music they play in between and during shows on NPR have the effect of making one feel and look old.

 

[MSI Magus]

[quote name='cindersphere']To be fair the music they play in between and during shows on NPR have the effect of making one feel and look old.[/QUOTE]

Heh my wife always teases me about the NPR music. Ever since we heard this Patton Oswalt segment we cant stop laughing about it. It is funny that NPR for liberals is full of crappy weird music yet people like Glenn Beck have classic rock.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Re-OdWBCRs


On a MUUUUUUCH more important note an Iraq War veteran is sedated and in critical condition after being hit in the head by crap police were shooting at civilians during the Oakland crackdown.

Video and info included in the link

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...eran-injured-by-police-at-Occupy-Oakland.html

 

[cindersphere]

[quote name='MSI Magus']Heh my wife always teases me about the NPR music. Ever since we heard this Patton Oswalt segment we cant stop laughing about it. It is funny that NPR for liberals is full of crappy weird music yet people like Glenn Beck have classic rock.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Re-OdWBCRs


On a MUUUUUUCH more important note an Iraq War veteran is sedated and in critical condition after being hit in the head by crap police were shooting at civilians during the Oakland crackdown.

Video and info included in the link

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...eran-injured-by-police-at-Occupy-Oakland.html[/QUOTE]

Holy crap that was hilarious, I have never heard Oswalts comedy, kinda cautious because of his character on king of queens. I might actually have to look into his standup.

On the second video, bullshit those were not ing fireworks thrown by protesters.

 

[MSI Magus]

[quote name='cindersphere']Holy crap that was hilarious, I have never heard Oswalts comedy, kinda cautious because of his character on king of queens. I might actually have to look into his standup.

On the second video, bullshit those were not ing fireworks thrown by protesters.[/QUOTE]

You should def give him a chance. I was reluctant because of King of Queens as well, but his stand up comedy is legitimately funny. Though Louis C.K is still the best

 

[mykevermin]

I'll second Oswalt's standup. Werewolves and Lollipops is top shelf comedy.

 

[Clak]

I kinda like the NPR music....

And Click and Clack play a lot of rock, it's just all about cars and by people you've never heard of...

 

[UncleBob]

[quote name='MSI Magus']*wonders how many Rapes are reported at your average college campus week in week out*[/QUOTE]

How many college campuses then refuse to allow police presence to investigate the assault afterwards?

Some of you are blindly giving an absolute free pass to a group of people whom, if the allegations are true, did some pretty horrific things.

Remember the posts about the military trying to block investigations into allegations of sexual abuse? How are these people any better?

 

[RedvsBlue]

Save us your feigned outrage, it's pathetically transparent.

 

[MSI Magus]

[quote name='UncleBob']How many college campuses then refuse to allow police presence to investigate the assault afterwards?

Some of you are blindly giving an absolute free pass to a group of people whom, if the allegations are true, did some pretty horrific things.

Remember the posts about the military trying to block investigations into allegations of sexual abuse? How are these people any better?[/QUOTE]

I didnt say I approved of anything so stop making assumptions. I think the OWS people are wrong to not give police 100% cooperation in investigating these or any other criminal matter.

 

[UncleBob]

I wouldn't call it "outrage" - but I do have to say, I'm pretty disgusted by the behavior of some people.

 

[UncleBob]

[quote name='MSI Magus']I didnt say I approved of anything so stop making assumptions. I think the OWS people are wrong to not give police 100% cooperation in investigating these or any other criminal matter.[/QUOTE]

I didn't say you did approve of anything. However, you pulled out that comment about the rate of assault on college campuses as if it were supposed to mean something.

The "other side" of this story is clear - the police used force *not* because someone reported a sexual assault or because someone was severely beaten*, but because protesters locked arms and refused to allow police in so that they could investigate the allegations of the crimes.

I'm not saying everyone should have reported every detail to the police - but to actually go out of one's way to impede an investigation? That is crossing the line.

On the flip side, I seriously question the judgement of anyone in power who launches an "attack", involving chemical elements, at 5 in the morning (even more so when there are children involved). I don't care if they waited over 48 hours for compliance - they should have waited a few more...

*The article I linked to earlier included this tidbit:

Those who helped build the encampment were distressed by the decision to tear it down, noting that tensions were being resolved internally and had led to uncommonly frank conversations about class, race, and gender during repeated public assemblies and committee meetings.

I'm left wondering how involved "those" people were with the movement that commented on this and what they actually said. I can't help but think the man who was beaten might have also been involved with the earlier sexual assault...

 

[dmaul1114]

Now the protesters in Atlanta have moved to Centennial Olympic Park for the time being.

http://www.ajc.com/news/occupy-atlanta-protesters-move-1210843.html?cxtype=rss_news_81963

Can't imagine they'll let them stay there long as that's a central tourist location (right by the Aquariam, Coca Cola Museum, CNN Building, basketball arena etc.

They were in a dinky little park in an area of the city that doesn't have much but some Georgia State buildings and restaurants and pawn shops etc. before.

 

[Msut77]

[quote name='dmaul1114']Now the protesters in Atlanta have moved to Centennial Olympic Park for the time being.

http://www.ajc.com/news/occupy-atlanta-protesters-move-1210843.html?cxtype=rss_news_81963

Can't imagine they'll let them stay there long as that's a central tourist location (right by the Aquariam, Coca Cola Museum, CNN Building, basketball arena etc.

They were in a dinky little park in an area of the city that doesn't have much but some Georgia State buildings and restaurants and pawn shops etc. before.[/QUOTE]

Remember when 'Baggers were bringing guns to protests?

What do you think the reaction would be if any of these guys were openly carrying?

 

[dohdough]

This is a completely bullshit point. It doesn't matter if they're on public OR PRIVATE property because if there's even a hint a crime that took place, they're legally allowed to enter that space and considering what happened yesterday morning AND afternoon, it wasn't because the cops were trying to cement better relations with the occupiers. If the cops want in, they will get in somehow and if you think that this is a reaction to "obstructing justice," then you really set a very low bar for the veracity of facts.

So instead of arguing points that you have no business arguing, why don't you also include where you caught wind of this story to begin with.

 

[mykevermin]

[quote name='Msut77']What do you think the reaction would be if any of these guys were openly carrying?[/QUOTE]

Neil Young already wrote that song 3-4 decades ago.

 

[UncleBob]

[quote name='dohdough']This is a completely bullshit point. It doesn't matter if they're on public OR PRIVATE property because if there's even a hint a crime that took place, they're legally allowed to enter that space[/quote]

So, what to do when the people currently occupying that space form a human chain and refuse entry to the police?

If the cops want in, they will get in somehow

...and they did.

So instead of arguing points that you have no business arguing, why don't you also include where you caught wind of this story to begin with.

Okay.

Here. The very first thing I read about the chain of events in Oakland. Happy?

 

[dohdough]

And then you pull some quote about a sexual assault(not necessarily a rape) and a beating and link that to the reason why the cops went into assault mode. So no, I am not satisfied by your explanation.

 

[UncleBob]

[quote name='dohdough']And then you pull some quote about a sexual assault(not necessarily a rape) and a beating and link that to the reason why the cops went into assault mode. So no, I am not satisfied by your explanation.[/QUOTE]

You asked where I caught wind of the story.

You posted about the story. Your post was... severely lacking in details. While I'm sure it is entirely possible that a group of power-hungry cops woke up at 4 AM and decided they were going to bust some hippie skulls that morning, I figured there was likely some more details to the story and checked some of the larger news sites for more information than what you provided. As it happened in California, I checked the website for the largest California-based newspaper I could think of (latimes.com) where one of the quick links at the top was "Occupy Oakland" - and the story I linked to was the story it linked to at the time.

*Now* are you happy?

 

[dohdough]

Your reputation for honesty is not the type of social capital that you have in this forum, so don't pretend that you do.

Secondly, you don't investigate a crime by declaring a public assembly illegal and then arresting 70+ people with the corporate media present while pumping in tear gas, rubber bullets, and riot guns loaded with bean bags for crowd control.

You tried to tie those two things together that are completely out of your ability to argue and you expect people to take what you say at face value? I'll play in the mud with you, but as someone that has dropped actual knowledge on this forum and STILL attacked as being dishonest, what makes you think you have anymore chance of passing muster than me?

 

[UncleBob]

[quote name='dohdough']Secondly, you don't investigate a crime by declaring a public assembly illegal and then arresting 70+ people with the corporate media present while pumping in tear gas, rubber bullets, and riot guns loaded with bean bags for crowd control.[/quote]

How many times do I have to say that I disagree with the police response in this situation? Would you be more happy if I used larger font? Bold letters? Maybe if I made quick-and-dirty MSPaint images that displayed my disagreement with the response?

 

[UncleBob]

https://twitter.com/#!/matthai

Some tweets from before **** went down:

Cops staying well out of #OccupyOakland 's way but also clearing traffic well ahead of them
22 Oct

Police Chief Howard Jordan told me yesterday OPD would "facilitate" #OccupyOakland march
22 Oct

Hundreds here now as #OccupyOakland march set to begin. Unpermitted, but police still expected to "facilitate" march
22 Oct

Maybe 75 people from #OccupyOakland rush into the Chase bank on Lakeshore & throw deposit slips around. Some stay to clean up.
22 Oct

#OccupyOakland is back at Frank Ogawa. Cops didn't clear it out during march, as I thought might happen.
22 Oct

After **** went down:

Police say disperse, #OccupyOakland stays for a while and then moves ... repeatedly. Very effective.
25 Oct

Ala. Co. Sheriff shoots canisters into the air that make eyes and nose burn. #OccupyOakland
25 Oct

Another unlawful assembly declared at 15th & Broadway. #OccupyOakland police: "chemical agents will be used." protesters: "keep marching"
25 Oct

Jordan says 2 OPD cops doused & injured by paint & chemicals thrown by #OccupyOakand protestors
25 Oct

Jordan says #OccupyOakand protestors also threw bottles/rocks at cops tonight. Tear has used to protect officers, he said
25 Oct

Folks throw rocks at cops at 14/Broadway. Cops did not shoot tear gas back #OccupyOakand
26 Oct

And sure enuf, bottles fly from young folk & cops respond w tear gas #OccupyOakland
26 Oct

Cloud of tear gas was as thick as North Beach fog. Seriously. Burned my eyes 2 blocks away. #OccupyOakand
26 Oct

i'm tired of being tear gassed. I'm checking out. Good night all! hope EVERYONE is safe tonight. #occupyoakland
26 Oct

Chemical cling: I was only in office for 20 min last night. When I came in this morn, I was engulfed in smell of #OccupyOakland tear gas
20 hours ago

Santana said workers removed 10 tons of debris from #occupyoakland & 10 tons of belongings. Don't see how it's possible.
13 hours ago

So, it went from the police helping to clear/close the streets so the protestors could march to... well, ****.

 

[eldergamer]

A failry interesting article from Willamette Weeklly (Portland's weekly alternative lefty newspaper) about the occupy Portland camps.

http://www.wweek.com/portland/article-18140-notes_from_the_occupation.html?current_page=1

You can read how parts of the camp have been co-opted by the homeless and the gutter street kids who "hang out" in the city. (Why I don't go downtown).

And only in Portland would there be free food for the homeless/hungry and pepole complain about plastic forks.

The place is really just a Hepatitis A outbreak waiting to happen. (The overflowing toilets have been on the news numerous times)

 

[mykevermin]

Portland is indeed a world of its own, however.

At least you have Voodoo Doughnuts.

 

[DurbanBrown]

dudes need to go home already, whats the point?

 

[berzirk]

I'm not sure I understand the end game for the Occupy protestors throughout the nation. It seems like they've made their displeasure known, which is good but now some of the protests are causing damage to cities, requiring full time law enforcement coverage. So basically the 99% is now becoming a tax liability to the 100%. Isn't that sort of against what they stand for (if I understand their stance properly).

I don't mean it as a condemnation for anyone involved, I just don't know when the mission is considered accomplished, or when the protestors feel like they can go back to work and normal lives.

 

[Nintendonly]

Wait, what's the story behind these "Occupy ____ Street" things going on?

They just got out of expensive colleges/universities and can't get jobs?

Well, they should blame themselves for paying such exorbitant prices to go nowhere, or they should have learned to have some kind of job in the meantime (janitor, retail, etc.) as they consistently apply for real careers.

If they can't deal with the latter, they shouldn't have purchased expensive vehicles or what-have-you that they can't keep up with.

 

[cindersphere]

[quote name='Nintendonly']Wait, what's the story behind these "Occupy ____ Street" things going on?

They just got out of expensive colleges/universities and can't get jobs?

Well, they should blame themselves for paying such exorbitant prices to go nowhere, or they should have learned to have some kind of job in the meantime (janitor, retail, etc.) as they consistently apply for real careers.

If they can't deal with the latter, they shouldn't have purchased expensive vehicles or what-have-you that they can't keep up with.[/QUOTE]

I always liked the irony of someone who is too lazy to become informed about something, turns around and bashes something he sees as lazy and stupid.

 

[willardhaven]

[quote name='DurbanBrown']dudes need to go home already, whats the point?[/QUOTE]

[quote name='berzirk']I'm not sure I understand the end game for the Occupy protestors throughout the nation. It seems like they've made their displeasure known, which is good but now some of the protests are causing damage to cities, requiring full time law enforcement coverage. So basically the 99% is now becoming a tax liability to the 100%. Isn't that sort of against what they stand for (if I understand their stance properly).

I don't mean it as a condemnation for anyone involved, I just don't know when the mission is considered accomplished, or when the protestors feel like they can go back to work and normal lives.[/QUOTE]

Somewhere around 20% of our country is out of work and the unemployment rate is increasing... what do you expect them to do?

 

[mykevermin]

[quote name='cindersphere']I always liked the irony of someone who is too lazy to become informed about something, turns around and bashes something he sees as lazy and stupid.[/QUOTE]

You know what, Stuart, I LIKE YOU. You're not like the other people, here, in the trailer park.

 

[cindersphere]

[quote name='mykevermin']You know what, Stuart, I LIKE YOU. You're not like the other people, here, in the trailer park.[/QUOTE]
What are you referring too/referencing?

 

[mykevermin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Xuvcpjf1JU

 

[MSI Magus]

An Oakland judge ruled that there was no reason to arrest the protestors and ordered their release.

 

[Msut77]

http://www.cjr.org/the_audit/aeis_myth_of_equality.php

 

[mykevermin]

AEI? Dishonest?

noooooooooo

 

[UncleBob]

More from http://twitter.com/#!/matthai

I've had numerous people ask me what i personally saw at #occupyoakland Tuesday in terms of weapons by protesters & police ...
5 hours ago

I saw #occupyoakland protesters hurl rocks & bottles. @ 8th & Washington, folks threw paint on cops, who said chemicals thrown there also.
5 hours ago

From cops, I saw numerous tear gas cannisters hurled @ #occupyoakland marchers. Several marchers showed me broken skin from projectiles.
5 hours ago

One #occupyoakland observer got shot by some projectile that made him barely able to walk. i talked to him seconds after shot.
5 hours ago

My #occupyoakland story today looked at local biz impact. $$$$$$$/uzRuEg 1 overlooked perspective is dtown residents. Some are frustrated too
5 hours ago

I also saw lots of graffiti around #occupyoakland saying "kill pigs" & similar language used during march.
5 hours ago

 

[Msut77]

[quote name='mykevermin']AEI? Dishonest?

noooooooooo[/QUOTE]

Well at least they get paid for it. People around here do that for free.

 

[MSI Magus]

Surprised no one posted this yet

http://www.nationalconfidential.com...-lawyers-laugh-at-americas-foreclosed-photos/

 

[Msut77]

http://www.businessinsider.com/mari...-used-methods-prohibited-in-war-zones-2011-10

 

[The Crotch]

...

Was that a Tim Horton's coffee mug in the third shot?

 

[Msut77]

I think so, they have a few here that I know of.

 

[UncleBob]

A super-neat 360-Photo from Occupy Oakland, posted by the same twitter account that's been posting those great updates.

http://photosynth.net/view.aspx?cid=8b821c6a-fd30-41ae-abbc-7467b37c8921

 

[Clak]

[quote name='MSI Magus']Surprised no one posted this yet

http://www.nationalconfidential.com...-lawyers-laugh-at-americas-foreclosed-photos/[/QUOTE]

[quote name='Msut77']http://www.businessinsider.com/mari...-used-methods-prohibited-in-war-zones-2011-10[/QUOTE]

And yet I'm sure there is somebody (here even) who could defend all of that.

 

[UncleBob]

I posted this earlier, but it got censored due to the shortened URL...

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/10/28/MN951LNTGB.DTL

The owner of Sankofa African Arts and Jewelry said that on the two mornings since protesters returned, her front doorway has reeked of urine.

She said her business has declined by 80 percent since Occupy Oakland began.

"I really, really want them to leave," said the owner, who gave only her first name, Ellen. She has owned her business for 17 years. "What they are doing is making business worse."

A camp supporter overheard her lament and shouted: "You would have lost your business anyway with the way the economy is going."

Ellen burst into tears.

Moji Ghafouri said business has gone down 25 percent at her Caffe Teatro. Protesters also smashed one of her windows.

"I'm a small business," she said. "If you're against corporations or big business, I'm not them."

 

[eldergamer]

The campers in Occupy Portland (who the city still supports!) (Why?) decided to move one of their camps from the downtown/business/govt district to...

The Pearl. Which is somewhat affluent and full of high-rise condos. To protest. Uhm, something. (The occupy person they interviewed the next day said he was glad they got their message out, and they want to take it to all the pepole of Portland.)



Mayor Adams said that unlike Chapman and Lownsdale squares, which are downtown amid government buildings and larger businesses, Jamison Square is surrounded by mostly residential properties and a few street-level businesses. He said Jamison was targeted because it's in the heart of the city's affluent Pearl District, yet there are five subsidized-living apartment buildings within four blocks of the park.


So, I still don't get what they wanted. Did they want the peple living in condos to just give up their homes, and hand over the keys to the occupiers?
The people who live there are rich, but they're definately not the super rich 1% mega-millionares.
The whole Occupy/Protest thing is just so scattershot and clueless.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2011/10/portland_police_arrest_25_occu.html

 

[panzerfaust]

are there any historical references to the current situation in the U.S. that can be reflected on here? i ask out of sheer curiosity.

 

[cindersphere]

[quote name='panzerfaust']are there any historical references to the current situation in the U.S. that can be reflected on here? i ask out of sheer curiosity.[/QUOTE]

Closest historical situation would probably be Shays rebellion back in the 1780's or 90's (not sure on actual date). Interestingly this rebellion is what caused Jefferson to say the tree of liberty must be watered by the blood of patriots and tyrants.

Is that what your asking or this movements history exactly?

 

[panzerfaust]

Yeah, pretty much. If what Occupy Wallstreet is asking for has worked in the past in similar situations.