What a crock of shit: PS3 screws owners of older HDTVs

[quote name='fred_h_haddad']So

this is the system that's supposed to last until 2017? Riiiight. Looks like it's already out-of-date in technology.[/QUOTE]

Ah, no, but see - I'm sure the official word from Sony is that they strove to support the very best and newest technology (ie, 1080p displays). So all of use have outdated HDTVs and need to upgrade ;).
 
"A small number of older High Definition television sets found in the United States only have 1080i inputs for HD signals. Those televisions will currently only play some PS3 titles at 480p resolution. PS3 games render images at either 720p or 1080p for High Definition, and you need 720p input on the TV to play select games that do not support 1080p. This is an issue on the side of the individual television sets, which do not accept 720p input, so when a game outputs an HD signal only at 720p, these select TVs have to display the game at 480p instead."
Click to expand...
Riiiiiight. My TV sure looks broken when I'm playing Gears of War or watching TV in glorious 1080i. Give me a break.
 
I love how they pawn the problem off an issue within the technology of the Tv's, and not their system. Either way even if it was an issue with just the tv's, it still was a very well known issue about which they did nothing to compensate. Every other piece of HD equipment scales the images to compensate for the TV's best resolution so why doesn't their machine? :bomb:
 
Here's another reply:

[quote name='Phil Harrison']"If you have a tv that only supports 1080i, and there are very very few of those, then you have to play around with the settings in the machine, but you'll get the experience that the designers intended, and it looks incredible."[/QUOTE]

http://gamersreports.com/news/4433/

That just seems to me like "hey buddy, you wanted the best experience possible, get yourself a new tv that supports 1080p" :applause: Way to go Sony.
 
you know, they keep saying that very few TVs are affected but I can't tell for sure if mine is or not. I cannot get a picture when I change the settings on my 360 to 720p but everywhere I read says that plasma TVs aren't affected by this "oversight."
 
"If you have a tv that only supports 1080i, and there are very very few of those,"

Hahaha.... WHAT? 1080p has been available for, what? 6 months? And only in the high end. It's ludicrous to think that it's widespread, by any definition of the word.
 
[quote name='Vegan']"If you have a tv that only supports 1080i, and there are very very few of those,"

Hahaha.... WHAT? 1080p has been available for, what? 6 months? And only in the high end. It's ludicrous to think that it's widespread, by any definition of the word.[/QUOTE]


Exactly. 1080i DVDs are fairly common, 1080p sets are the ones there are very very few of. I don't know why Sony is so dead set on revolving everything around the high income gamers when they make up such a small percentage of the whole. Seems like a pretty stupid business strategy.
 
[quote name='Puzznic']Exactly. 1080i DVDs are fairly common, 1080p sets are the ones there are very very few of. I don't know why Sony is so dead set on revolving everything around the high income gamers when they make up such a small percentage of the whole. Seems like a pretty stupid business strategy.[/quote]

That's easy. Sony wants to encourage you to buy that 1080p TV that they just so happen to make.
 
[quote name='javeryh']This is an issue on the side of the individual television sets[/QUOTE]

Translation~ Don't expect us to fix this anytime soon or possibly ever.
 
[quote name='Vegan']"If you have a tv that only supports 1080i, and there are very very few of those,"

Hahaha.... WHAT? 1080p has been available for, what? 6 months? And only in the high end. It's ludicrous to think that it's widespread, by any definition of the word.[/quote]


You don't need 1080p to play the PS3. A dual-mode 720p/1080i set works just fine & has no problems.
 
[quote name='fred_h_haddad']You don't need 1080p to play the PS3. A dual-mode 720p/1080i set works just fine & has no problems.[/QUOTE]


The point is that all they ever talk about is 1080p when hardly anyone even has it. Then they say that 1080i TVs are very very few when they out number the 1080p TVs by a large margin.
 
OK, Sony, you're right - it is the defective cheap-ass fucking TV manufacturers who are to blame for 1080i only. Let me go look at my HDTV. Oh yeah, it is made by SONY! And, OK, so I can solve this by fudging around with the "settings". OK, looking at the manual now - hmmmm, it appears that my Sony HDTV downconverts 720p signals to 480p. fuck you Sony.
 
Umm, if anyone here even BOTHERED to read that whole article they would've noticed the last line, which says

The SCEA spokesperson went on to assure us that Sony is working on a solution. A timetable for the fix wasn't provided, but it will be a simple firmware download when ready.
Click to expand...

Sure sounds like they're going to fix the problem to me.

Just like I said.
 
[quote name='keithp']Umm, if anyone here even BOTHERED to read that whole article they would've noticed the last line, which says



Sure sounds like they're going to fix the problem to me.

Just like I said.[/QUOTE]

It should have worked correctly in the first place. did they bother to test stuff or where they under the impression that people where going to get a 2nd job to afford a PS3 and not give a fuck if it worked right?
 
Well, yeah, I agree it should've worked correctly to begin with. That's a shitload of money to drop and not have it work right.
 
[quote name='keithp']Umm, if anyone here even BOTHERED to read that whole article they would've noticed the last line, which says



Sure sounds like they're going to fix the problem to me.

Just like I said.[/QUOTE]

I have to admit I didn't read it - just the excerpts posted here. When I saw the condescending "small number of older High Definitition television sets" and "This is an issue on the side of the individual television sets" I didn't figure a solution was forthcoming. Besides, haven't others commented that this would have to be a hardware-based solution? Otherwise, why the hell wouldn't they have just included it - seems like if it is just a firmware issue that they could have nailed it much earlier to avoid the bad PR if nothing else.

Oh well, if they fix it, fine. Then I'll consider getting one. If they don't, I guess I'll get a 360.
 
[quote name='io']Besides, haven't others commented that this would have to be a hardware-based solution? [/quote]

from what i understand a scaler chip was not included in the ps3. to upscale using software will further burden the processor possibly causing further problems with frames per second and other graphical tasks...to sum up, it doesn't sound like an easy task to get it right via software updates
 
[quote name='gaelan']from what i understand a scaler chip was not included in the ps3. to upscale using software will further burden the processor possibly causing further problems with frames per second and other graphical tasks...to sum up, it doesn't sound like an easy task to get it right via software updates[/quote]

That's what I thought too. So if and when this patch comes we can all expect for the games to not run at the right framerate and generally not as well as if it were running on a 720p compatible set, right?
 
[quote name='javeryh']That's what I thought too. So if and when this patch comes we can all expect for the games to not run at the right framerate and generally not as well as if it were running on a 720p compatible set, right?[/quote]
i think "generally not as well as if it were running on a 720p compatible set" is more accurate. anything else affected (framerate) is a wait for the update and see kind of game.
 
[quote name='javeryh']That's what I thought too. So if and when this patch comes we can all expect for the games to not run at the right framerate and generally not as well as if it were running on a 720p compatible set, right?[/quote]

Right. 1080i is only 30 frames a second, not 60fps like 720p.
 
Here's the clip from the article - "As it turns out, gamers who own older HD sets that feature only 480i, 480p, and 1080i resolution input capabilities will have to settle for the display quality being downsized as the game boots in its 480p mode rather than upscaling the image from its more desirable 720p mode to the TV's 1080i. We tested this development on older HDTV sets with games designed for 720p but not 1080i -- Resistance: Fall of Man, NHL 2K7, Tiger Woods PGA Tour 07, and Need for Speed Carbon. Sure enough, the system downshifted all four titles to 480p rather than moving up to 1080i. This issue came up with either a digital HD video connection (using an HDMI cord) and an analog HD video connection (using component cables.)"


you got ridge racer supports 480p, 720p, 1080i, and 1080p, resistance only does 720p, and madden does 480i, and 720p, so in the case of ridge racer, an older hd set (1080i capable) will pick up the 1080i from RR game. However the 720p from RFOM won't be upgraded by the PS3 to the 1080i (if your tv doesn't have 720p), so from my reasoning, the ps3 only does what it's told, it doesn't do any upscaling of it's own. So basically programmers (as of now) need to make sure that their games support 720p, 1080i, 1080p, ... let me know if I'm on the right track.
 
[quote name='Thomas96']you got ridge racer supports 480p, 720p, 1080i, and 1080p, resistance only does 720p, and madden does 480i, and 720p, so in the case of ridge racer, an older hd set (1080i capable) will pick up the 1080i from RR game. However the 720p from RFOM won't be upgraded by the PS3 to the 1080i (if your tv doesn't have 720p), so from my reasoning, the ps3 only does what it's told, it doesn't do any upscaling of it's own. So basically programmers (as of now) need to make sure that their games support 720p, 1080i, 1080p, ... let me know if I'm on the right track.[/quote]

I believe that is correct.
 
If the game companies make their games support 1080i, then there is no problem.

There's a couple of PS3 games out now, maybe more that have 1080i support, it says so on the back.

They just need to make each game support every video type and be done with it.
 
[quote name='Thomas96']Here's the clip from the article - "As it turns out, gamers who own older HD sets that feature only 480i, 480p, and 1080i resolution input capabilities will have to settle for the display quality being downsized as the game boots in its 480p mode rather than upscaling the image from its more desirable 720p mode to the TV's 1080i. We tested this development on older HDTV sets with games designed for 720p but not 1080i -- Resistance: Fall of Man, NHL 2K7, Tiger Woods PGA Tour 07, and Need for Speed Carbon. Sure enough, the system downshifted all four titles to 480p rather than moving up to 1080i. This issue came up with either a digital HD video connection (using an HDMI cord) and an analog HD video connection (using component cables.)"


you got ridge racer supports 480p, 720p, 1080i, and 1080p, resistance only does 720p, and madden does 480i, and 720p, so in the case of ridge racer, an older hd set (1080i capable) will pick up the 1080i from RR game. However the 720p from RFOM won't be upgraded by the PS3 to the 1080i (if your tv doesn't have 720p), so from my reasoning, the ps3 only does what it's told, it doesn't do any upscaling of it's own. So basically programmers (as of now) need to make sure that their games support 720p, 1080i, 1080p, ... let me know if I'm on the right track.[/quote]

true...i think the main beef is with Sony touting its system as the ultimate in HD gaming, yet some of the games are downgraded to 480p. I know it is the devs fault for not including 1080i support, but some of the fault is on sony also for not enabling their system with the hardware necessary to ensure a HD experience above 480p regardless of the programmers exclusion of resolution x, y or z.
 
[quote name='gaelan']true...i think the main beef is with Sony touting its system as the ultimate in HD gaming, yet some of the games are downgraded to 480p. I know it is the devs fault for not including 1080i support, but some of the fault is on sony also for not enabling their system with the hardware necessary to ensure a HD experience above 480p regardless of the programmers exclusion of resolution x, y or z.[/QUOTE]


for 500/600 dollars, I think that it should be able to upscale, sony says they are working on it... cause you spend that amount of money you should be able to enjoy your games in HD...
 
[quote name='dallow']If the game companies make their games support 1080i, then there is no problem.

There's a couple of PS3 games out now, maybe more that have 1080i support, it says so on the back.

They just need to make each game support every video type and be done with it.[/quote]
The question is, is the PS3 powerful enough to support 1080i in most games? From what I understand (correct me if I'm wrong) lots of 360 games support 720p and the 360 upscales the image to 1080i. From what I've read the PS3's GPU isn't quite a powerful as the 360's so it's possible that few games will support 1080i.
 
[quote name='Kaijufan']The question is, is the PS3 powerful enough to support 1080i in most games? From what I understand (correct me if I'm wrong) lots of 360 games support 720p and the 360 upscales the image to 1080i. From what I've read the PS3's GPU isn't quite a powerful as the 360's so it's possible that few games will support 1080i.[/quote]

i don't think it is a matter of power rather the absence of necessary chips or hardware to do the upscaling.
 
[quote name='dallow']If the game companies make their games support 1080i, then there is no problem.

There's a couple of PS3 games out now, maybe more that have 1080i support, it says so on the back.

They just need to make each game support every video type and be done with it.[/quote]

thats easyer said then done. something has to give. It dosent support 1080i becuse it would really lag the game otherwise so they just took that option out. if you make a game to support 1080i, the game wont look as good. Now they could store all the texture rez sizes and diffrent model poly counts, ect ect but that costs a ton of money. Is it cheaper to make the game 720p... or put more cash into the game to get it to run 1080i. If the company thinks it will make more cash only doing 720 then your going to see more 720 only games and no 1080 games becuse they might loose money makeing the game.

I dont know whats cheaper really, but its something to consider and its not as simple as " just have all games have all versions"

This is why an up rez chip is so importent. The 360 proceses the image at 720 while another proceser proceses the image and uprezes it to a higher size, rather then optomizing the game to run at 1080, hurting how the game looks at 720, unless they want to dump alot of money on diffrent texture versions ect. as above.

uprez chip makes it so simple.
 
Supposedly the PS3 has the ability to do the upscaling in software....but god knows what thats going to be like.

I wish developers would pull their heads out of their asses (not their fault, its their project directors and beancounters doing this I'm sure) and focus instead on more realistic textures and effects.

Doom III looks amazing at 480p.....imagine what they could do with 480p if they could layer twice the amount of effects on a given scene, or the same with 720p.

1080p the holy grail..whatever, there are still going to be a hundreds of thousands more 1080i and 720p sets on the market than 1080p sets for the next 5 years I'm guessing. People who just dropped $3+ grand on a 720p set aren't going to rush out for 1080p......so this race to do 1080p is fucking pointless.
 
I just discovered something that might help some people out. I have one of the Philips HD CRTs that only supports 480i/480p/1080i.

In Video Settings in the XMB menu, I selected Custom, then enabled 480p/720p/1080i. Although I know my TV doesn't support 720p, when I put in Resistance or Genji (both 720p games) my TV shows that it's displaying 1080i, and it does look a lot better than typical 480p.

AFAIK, there's no way that sending unsupported signals can damage your TV (can someone prove on way or the other if this is true?), but for my own sake I'm not responsible if someting goes bad with your TV!
 
[quote name='reiji']I just discovered something that might help some people out. I have one of the Philips HD CRTs that only supports 480i/480p/1080i.

In Video Settings in the XMB menu, I selected Custom, then enabled 480p/720p/1080i. Although I know my TV doesn't support 720p, when I put in Resistance or Genji (both 720p games) my TV shows that it's displaying 1080i, and it does look a lot better than typical 480p.

AFAIK, there's no way that sending unsupported signals can damage your TV (can someone prove on way or the other if this is true?), but for my own sake I'm not responsible if someting goes bad with your TV![/QUOTE]

That just means your TV itself has a built in upscaler.
 
[quote name='secretvampire']I don't need the George-W-Bush-esque attack the messenger while ignoring the facts bullshit tactics.[/QUOTE]

:rofl:

Sorry that was too funny, I just had to quote you :)

On another note, I think my sister is SOL because of this issue I was not aware of before. Ahh well, the PS3 is not mine anyways, her and her kids should be happy I got them one :)
 
[quote name='RedvsBlue']That just means your TV itself has a built in upscaler.[/quote]

Now that you mention it... I really didn't think it had an upscaler. Anyway, I guess it's good news for anyone who has one of the Philips Outlet TVs.
 
Good, I hope it pisses off enough people that Sony doesn't sell systems. They should have never launched a system they only had 175,000 ready. For all of those who got burned on a first generation Sony product remember this next time because it happens EVERY time they launch a product. How many times has Sony launched a proprietary media format that has failed? Every single one of them. Beta, Mini Disc, UMD movies (all but over with), and now Blu-Ray.

I am still playing my PS2 and having a blast, Okami is killer. For all of the graphics whores that are ruining the gaming market for pretty graphics and shitty gameplay and I can say you are getting what you deserve.

Not a rant, I am 29 and have been playing games since I was 5 (started with pong). Unless people get back to form instead of fashion all the games are going to be getting worse than they already are and it will be like playing different themed versions of monopoly. The same things with different characters over and over and over
 
[quote name='fenderhutz']How many times has Sony launched a proprietary media format that has failed? Every single one of them. Beta, Mini Disc, UMD movies (all but over with), and now Blu-Ray. [/quote]

You conveniently forgot about CDs, DVDs, and 3.5" floppies. Sony had a LARGE part in developing all of those formats.
 
[quote name='reiji']
How many times has Sony launched a proprietary media format that has failed? Every single one of them.
Click to expand...
You conveniently forgot about CDs, DVDs, and 3.5" floppies. Sony had a LARGE part in developing all of those formats.[/quote]

proprietary was what the man said. DVD and 3.5" floppies are not proprietary because they were developed by corsortiums of many companies & supporters.

CD is the only Sony-proprietary standard that reached success.

Doesn't say much for Bluray's future. :cry:
 
My HDTV LCD TV I just bought when I picked up my PS3 supports 720p and 1080i, and it will be a cold day in hell before I spend another $2,000 or more to play mediocre games, that even on 1080p sets still don't look as good as Gears of War on a 720p or 1080i set. Sony better resolve this problem, because it should support 720p, or 1080i instead of being scaled down to 480p, it's ridiculous.
 
Well, here we are a couple of weeks out from my original post and we still know very little. All we see is Sony flip-flopping around whether they will even address this issue, and the future does not look promising.

Publishers are starting to hedge their bets and develop for the 360 simultaneously rather than risk their investment dollars on a console with a sub-1-million install base for the foreseeable future. Analysts have said Sony only shipped about 200k systems at launch, they are trickling into stores 1-3 at a time. The Wii in all likelihood sold a few more hundred thousand units this weekend, a huge difference. I'm guessing it's going to be March at the EARLIEST before they sell over a million PS3 units in North America. By that time, you could see 6-8 million 360s sold and close to 4 million (or MORE) Wiis if they keep flying off the shelves.

I'm not sure I will even care about the PS3 when (or IF) this situation gets resolved. There is only so much time in a week to do gaming, and the 360 and Wii are more than filling the void with great titles. I can do without paying $600+ for a platform to play a handful of exclusive franchises (Metal Gear, Devil May Cry...I couldn't give a flying fuck about Final Fantasy these days). And who knows, by this time next year, Konami and Capcom may be throwing their support behind the 360 rather than trying to prop up the PS3. Time will tell.
 
Remove the blinders, in an effort to push Blu Ray they cut corners on the gaming system.

For everyone that thought 599.00 was a good deal for a Blu Ray DVD player you got that, A good looking DVD player that it's SECOND function is to play games. This is unforgivable. Sony shame on you.
 
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