Why you *might want to* buy Mad Catz stock. SOON.
- Thread starter Knoxximus
- Start date
[quote name='Knoxximus']With the stock price what it is, it doesn't have to go Nintendo huge to clear. If it hits a buck or two, you've almost pentupled your initial investment.
And who couldn't use a coupla extra hundred bucks right now?
I'm not saying the stock is gonna jump to $10. Even if it hits it's 52-week high amount of $1.03, you've effectively tripled your money.[/quote]
There's way too much risk involved to wager any sort of significant investment on that sort of return. Could I throw $100 at it and make a whole $300? Sure, but whoopee. Am I going to invest a couple grand to make it worthwhile? Hell no.
If you need a couple hundred bucks, might as well get on the game-flipping bandwagon with essentially zero risk.
In general it sounds like you're heavily overestimating demand for both SFIV and for SFIV accessories.
And who couldn't use a coupla extra hundred bucks right now?
I'm not saying the stock is gonna jump to $10. Even if it hits it's 52-week high amount of $1.03, you've effectively tripled your money.[/quote]
There's way too much risk involved to wager any sort of significant investment on that sort of return. Could I throw $100 at it and make a whole $300? Sure, but whoopee. Am I going to invest a couple grand to make it worthwhile? Hell no.
If you need a couple hundred bucks, might as well get on the game-flipping bandwagon with essentially zero risk.
In general it sounds like you're heavily overestimating demand for both SFIV and for SFIV accessories.
[quote name='Knoxximus']1st of all, this is a gaming forum, so of course gaming is a hobby taken quite seriously in here.
Secondly, in my book, TV is the silly little time waster. At least when you're playing a game, your mind is always actively engaged, be it hand/eye coordination based or logical/logistical/strategical based.
Gaming is interactive. TV is passive. That makes a huge difference in ways to waste ones silly little time.
Priorities in order? I'm working on my 2nd Bachelors degree, am a 10-year Army veteran, know how to and have a reasonable amount of success investing in the stock market (not saying that you don't know how, ok?), and have zero consumer/credit card debt. I think my priorities are QUITE in order.[/QUOTE]
I wasn't talking to you. I was talking to jer and others who bash people who don't like the same types of games they do, the fanboys here etc. Those people take shit too seriously. Not people who play a lot of games and don't take others opinions on games personally.k
And TV is indeed also a silly little time waster, as are movies, as are novels, etc. etc.. All hobbies are pretty much just time wasters when we could be doing something more productive but need a
ing break. 
Secondly, in my book, TV is the silly little time waster. At least when you're playing a game, your mind is always actively engaged, be it hand/eye coordination based or logical/logistical/strategical based.
Gaming is interactive. TV is passive. That makes a huge difference in ways to waste ones silly little time.
Priorities in order? I'm working on my 2nd Bachelors degree, am a 10-year Army veteran, know how to and have a reasonable amount of success investing in the stock market (not saying that you don't know how, ok?), and have zero consumer/credit card debt. I think my priorities are QUITE in order.[/QUOTE]
I wasn't talking to you. I was talking to jer and others who bash people who don't like the same types of games they do, the fanboys here etc. Those people take shit too seriously. Not people who play a lot of games and don't take others opinions on games personally.k
And TV is indeed also a silly little time waster, as are movies, as are novels, etc. etc.. All hobbies are pretty much just time wasters when we could be doing something more productive but need a
ing break. 
lol, I havent spent any money all month. I should play around with the stock market I guess...
I mean, I study that shyt anyway!!
btw, SFIV isnt all the company's working on... a little birdie told me of other great things to look forward to in MadCatz future
I mean, I study that shyt anyway!!
btw, SFIV isnt all the company's working on... a little birdie told me of other great things to look forward to in MadCatz future
The Mana Knight
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Mad Catz has improved no doubt. Their Pump It Up pads on PS2 were solid. Much better than Konami DDR pads.
[quote name='dmaul1114']I wasn't talking to you. I was talking to jer and others who bash people who don't like the same types of games they do, the fanboys here etc. Those people take shit too seriously. Not people who play a lot of games and don't take others opinions on games personally.k
And TV is indeed also a silly little time waster, as are movies, as are novels, etc. etc.. All hobbies are pretty much just time wasters when we could be doing something more productive but need aing break. [/quote]
Very well then. My bad.
#
Carry on.
And TV is indeed also a silly little time waster, as are movies, as are novels, etc. etc.. All hobbies are pretty much just time wasters when we could be doing something more productive but need a
ing break. [/quote]Very well then. My bad.
#Carry on.
[quote name='botticus']There's way too much risk involved to wager any sort of significant investment on that sort of return. Could I throw $100 at it and make a whole $300? Sure, but whoopee. Am I going to invest a couple grand to make it worthwhile? Hell no.
If you need a couple hundred bucks, might as well get on the game-flipping bandwagon with essentially zero risk.
In general it sounds like you're heavily overestimating demand for both SFIV and for SFIV accessories.[/quote]
Maybe I am....then again maybe I'm not. When I bought up Nintendo in '06 prior to the boom, the whole time before it blew, I was hearing almost the same arguement...not saying that this stock will be anywhere NEAR the magnitude of that rocket ship, mind you. But I promise you that a lot of people wish they would have listened to me when I was preaching Nintendo all spring and summer, especially after I got back from E3 2006.
So now my twisted little mind is programmed to believe that whenever I get similar responses to stocks I feel have potential, I will have similar end results.
I'm not guaranteeing anyone awesome returns here...I'm merely saying that I feel that MCZ is a sleeper stock and people might want to look into it, as the cost for entry is in the reach of the average joe. Don't take my word and invest blindly...do your own homework (
If you need a couple hundred bucks, might as well get on the game-flipping bandwagon with essentially zero risk.
In general it sounds like you're heavily overestimating demand for both SFIV and for SFIV accessories.[/quote]
Maybe I am....then again maybe I'm not. When I bought up Nintendo in '06 prior to the boom, the whole time before it blew, I was hearing almost the same arguement...not saying that this stock will be anywhere NEAR the magnitude of that rocket ship, mind you. But I promise you that a lot of people wish they would have listened to me when I was preaching Nintendo all spring and summer, especially after I got back from E3 2006.
So now my twisted little mind is programmed to believe that whenever I get similar responses to stocks I feel have potential, I will have similar end results.
I'm not guaranteeing anyone awesome returns here...I'm merely saying that I feel that MCZ is a sleeper stock and people might want to look into it, as the cost for entry is in the reach of the average joe. Don't take my word and invest blindly...do your own homework (
willardhaven
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I feel this is a noteworthy thread.
I think SF IV might be a big hit, but I'd have to see the figures on SF II HD Remix to get a better understanding.
I think SF IV might be a big hit, but I'd have to see the figures on SF II HD Remix to get a better understanding.
elwood731
CAGiversary!
No offense to the OP, but people posting on to message boards to hurry up and buy a stock because it is about to go huge reeks of SEC violations. If you want real investment advice, go speak to someone who does it professionally or go read up on it yourself. A single controller isn't going to make a company's stock go through the roof, unless that controller happens to be the Wii Remote.
[quote name='elwood731']No offense to the OP, but people posting on to message boards to hurry up and buy a stock because it is about to go huge reeks of SEC violations. If you want real investment advice, go speak to someone who does it professionally or go read up on it yourself. A single controller isn't going to make a company's stock go through the roof, unless that controller happens to be the Wii Remote.[/quote]
Perhaps I'll tone it down a little...I mean no ill will nor have any ulterior motive.
Funny story.
I told one of my close friends and his parents to buy Nintendo back in Spring of '06. They ran it by their broker, who proceeded to tell them that, whomever told them to do so has no idea what he's talking about, and to stay whatever course he had them on.
Everytime I see his folks now, I ask how that broker is doing and what he had to say when Nintendo went through the roof and they lost money in what "The Professional" told them to buy into. It never ends well.
Bottom line is, your average "Professional" has no freaking idea what makes a video game stock investment worthy. They are too busy looking at historics and past market patterns to see the future. Too stuck in the models of market's past and out of touch with the current and future. Even "Super Analyst" Pachter is all over the place.
This isn't your Daddy's Dow Jones anymore (not your Daddy personally). The rules have changed but the old guard is having trouble switching gears.
As I've said, my older cousin is a investing professional, and when I explained to him why I felt Mad Catz was a decent bet, he bought shares when it was .39 cents no questions asked.
I'm not saying I'm perfect, but it seems I have a knack for this sort of thing and was just trying to throw some people a bone if they were up for catching one.
Perhaps I'll tone it down a little...I mean no ill will nor have any ulterior motive.
Funny story.
I told one of my close friends and his parents to buy Nintendo back in Spring of '06. They ran it by their broker, who proceeded to tell them that, whomever told them to do so has no idea what he's talking about, and to stay whatever course he had them on.
Everytime I see his folks now, I ask how that broker is doing and what he had to say when Nintendo went through the roof and they lost money in what "The Professional" told them to buy into. It never ends well.
Bottom line is, your average "Professional" has no freaking idea what makes a video game stock investment worthy. They are too busy looking at historics and past market patterns to see the future. Too stuck in the models of market's past and out of touch with the current and future. Even "Super Analyst" Pachter is all over the place.
This isn't your Daddy's Dow Jones anymore (not your Daddy personally). The rules have changed but the old guard is having trouble switching gears.
As I've said, my older cousin is a investing professional, and when I explained to him why I felt Mad Catz was a decent bet, he bought shares when it was .39 cents no questions asked.
I'm not saying I'm perfect, but it seems I have a knack for this sort of thing and was just trying to throw some people a bone if they were up for catching one.
kainzero
CAGiversary!
[quote name='jer7583']It's really not as difficult as it seems. Online competition should bring on a Renaissance of fighting games, but I think most people are too ignorant to their potential value/depth to care. It's a real shame.[/quote]
It's not as difficult as it seems.
It's more difficult.
Competitive games are fun when you understand the system and get into the mindgames. They aren't fun when you can't get your moves out. Tennis on TV looks fun. When I tried to learn tennis and had trouble getting it over the net and not over the fence, it was not fun. We take for granted the amount of time we spend to get good at this.
Then you have to find competition. On XBL SFHD, 70% of my games I clearly outclass the opponent, 20% the opponent outclasses me, and 10% is a good game. And that's on the internet. Going to the arcade is an even bigger crap shoot.
On top of that, a competitive game is completely different from a single player game. A competitive game is like a sport, and a single player game is like reading a book. Different skill sets, different "end game" goals, different mechanics.
With that said, to get back on-topic, Mad-Catz getting more contracts to do game-specific controllers is the more intriguing part. Selling 3,000 niche TE sticks, not really. The tournament scene is actually much weaker than people think and as far as fighting games go, I doubt it'll top Smash in terms of sales and reputation.
It's not as difficult as it seems.
It's more difficult.
Competitive games are fun when you understand the system and get into the mindgames. They aren't fun when you can't get your moves out. Tennis on TV looks fun. When I tried to learn tennis and had trouble getting it over the net and not over the fence, it was not fun. We take for granted the amount of time we spend to get good at this.
Then you have to find competition. On XBL SFHD, 70% of my games I clearly outclass the opponent, 20% the opponent outclasses me, and 10% is a good game. And that's on the internet. Going to the arcade is an even bigger crap shoot.
On top of that, a competitive game is completely different from a single player game. A competitive game is like a sport, and a single player game is like reading a book. Different skill sets, different "end game" goals, different mechanics.
With that said, to get back on-topic, Mad-Catz getting more contracts to do game-specific controllers is the more intriguing part. Selling 3,000 niche TE sticks, not really. The tournament scene is actually much weaker than people think and as far as fighting games go, I doubt it'll top Smash in terms of sales and reputation.
elwood731
CAGiversary!
So one anecdote of when you were right? What about the times you were wrong? No one can predict the market 100%, but generally you are safer going with someone who knows what they are doing then someone who is buying entirely off of what the "hot new product" is. For one thing, any decent professional would warn you against any crazy investments and will generally play it relatively safe with your money. Plus, they tend to be well vetted so as not to have any ulterior motives in recommending stocks.
Nothing personal against you, but people should be very weary of taking stock advice online. If you just want to have some fun, invest what you can afford to lose into a small account and buy stocks of companies you really like.
Nothing personal against you, but people should be very weary of taking stock advice online. If you just want to have some fun, invest what you can afford to lose into a small account and buy stocks of companies you really like.
[quote name='Knoxximus']As I've said, my older cousin is a investing professional, and when I explained to him why I felt Mad Catz was a decent bet, he bought shares when it was .39 cents no questions asked.[/quote]
One of the long time mantras in investing is/was "buy what you know". So your cousin, for better or worse, is trusting in you, as the "gaming afficiando" that you know what you are talking about.
The stock is cheap and has plenty of room to grow, but any high P/E ratio stock can be viewed this way. I personally don't think SFIV will blow up enough to move the stock in a meaningful way, let alone a long term way, but really we don't know until the game comes out and the sales tell the real story. You're right about the market not being the same as it was before--the Internet has changed things in a big way as far as who is investing and what people expect out of the market. I don't know if it's a good or bad thing because the bottom line is still the financial strength of the company--the balance sheet and income statements.
In any case, your advice might sway the day trader willing to take risks, but the "typical" investor who wants solid long term returns really needs to do their homework and re-affirm what kind of investor they are before "buying now".
One of the long time mantras in investing is/was "buy what you know". So your cousin, for better or worse, is trusting in you, as the "gaming afficiando" that you know what you are talking about.
The stock is cheap and has plenty of room to grow, but any high P/E ratio stock can be viewed this way. I personally don't think SFIV will blow up enough to move the stock in a meaningful way, let alone a long term way, but really we don't know until the game comes out and the sales tell the real story. You're right about the market not being the same as it was before--the Internet has changed things in a big way as far as who is investing and what people expect out of the market. I don't know if it's a good or bad thing because the bottom line is still the financial strength of the company--the balance sheet and income statements.
In any case, your advice might sway the day trader willing to take risks, but the "typical" investor who wants solid long term returns really needs to do their homework and re-affirm what kind of investor they are before "buying now".
mykevermin
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1 controller, no matter how good it is, will (EDIT: NOT, FFS! NOT!) make a stock jump 300%.
That's not to say MCZ won't improve over time, if what MarkMan hints at is true.
But this is basing market change in a shitty climate based upon a limited release item that appeals to a niche base. Intriguing to examine, but no thank you.
That's not to say MCZ won't improve over time, if what MarkMan hints at is true.
But this is basing market change in a shitty climate based upon a limited release item that appeals to a niche base. Intriguing to examine, but no thank you.
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[quote name='elwood731']So one anecdote of when you were right? What about the times you were wrong? No one can predict the market 100%, but generally you are safer going with someone who knows what they are doing then someone who is buying entirely off of what the "hot new product" is. For one thing, any decent professional would warn you against any crazy investments and will generally play it relatively safe with your money. Plus, they tend to be well vetted so as not to have any ulterior motives in recommending stocks.
Nothing personal against you, but people should be very weary of taking stock advice online. If you just want to have some fun, invest what you can afford to lose into a small account and buy stocks of companies you really like.[/quote]
Honestly, I haven't been wrong yet, and I've been right quite a few times. Maybe this Mad Catz gamble will do it (i.e. ruin my streak).
Remember when Bear Stearns went under last year? And the Fed bought them out for $2 a share on Monday when they were trading at $30 that last Friday? Remember that uproar? I wished I had money in my account that Monday, but by the time my transfer went through, it was Wednesday.
My hypothesis was that the Fed seriously low balled Bear Stearns holders, and because the back lash would be so tremendous, they would increase their buyout bid. By the time my money hit my Ameritrade, the stock was at $4.00.
I went on a hunch and bought 1000 shares....yes I plunked down 4 G's. Friday was Good Friday, so the market was closed.
Market closed for the weekend as well.
Come Monday, sure as shyt, the Fed announced that the bid was increased from $2 to $10. I sold my shares at $12 and some change that very Monday.
Do the math on that one, chief.
I got my share of the Wall Street bailout...did you?
Nothing personal against you, but people should be very weary of taking stock advice online. If you just want to have some fun, invest what you can afford to lose into a small account and buy stocks of companies you really like.[/quote]
Honestly, I haven't been wrong yet, and I've been right quite a few times. Maybe this Mad Catz gamble will do it (i.e. ruin my streak).
Remember when Bear Stearns went under last year? And the Fed bought them out for $2 a share on Monday when they were trading at $30 that last Friday? Remember that uproar? I wished I had money in my account that Monday, but by the time my transfer went through, it was Wednesday.
My hypothesis was that the Fed seriously low balled Bear Stearns holders, and because the back lash would be so tremendous, they would increase their buyout bid. By the time my money hit my Ameritrade, the stock was at $4.00.
I went on a hunch and bought 1000 shares....yes I plunked down 4 G's. Friday was Good Friday, so the market was closed.
Market closed for the weekend as well.
Come Monday, sure as shyt, the Fed announced that the bid was increased from $2 to $10. I sold my shares at $12 and some change that very Monday.
Do the math on that one, chief.
I got my share of the Wall Street bailout...did you?
[quote name='mykevermin']1 controller, no matter how good it is, will [sic] not make a stock jump 300%.[/quote]
Well, if MadCatz hits a $1.20, then that prophecy will be fulfilled.
But yeah, I know what you're trying to say and heartily agree.
Could this ultra quality stick be a turning point for MadCatz turning into the next Logitech? Who knows. Speculation is really not my game.
Well, if MadCatz hits a $1.20, then that prophecy will be fulfilled.
But yeah, I know what you're trying to say and heartily agree.
Could this ultra quality stick be a turning point for MadCatz turning into the next Logitech? Who knows. Speculation is really not my game.
BillyBob29
CAGiversary!
No offense to the OP but having 1 call about Nintendo and saying you think you have a mind for stock picking as a result just makes no sense at all. The fact is, you did correctly call buying Nintendo ahead of a MAJOR global product release that was a multi year catalyst. The situation with MCZ is completely different.
The fact of the matter is that this whole situation really stinks of a pump and dump scam that people all the time with penny stocks.
I hope you do well with MCZ but playing in something MCZ is just plain gambling. If you want to talk about investing in long term trends or active trading, like I do, come chat with me and a few others in the CAG stock market club.
The fact of the matter is that this whole situation really stinks of a pump and dump scam that people all the time with penny stocks.
I hope you do well with MCZ but playing in something MCZ is just plain gambling. If you want to talk about investing in long term trends or active trading, like I do, come chat with me and a few others in the CAG stock market club.
[quote name='BillyBob29']No offense to the OP but having 1 call about Nintendo and saying you think you have a mind for stock picking as a result just makes no sense at all. The fact is, you did correctly call buying Nintendo ahead of a MAJOR global product release that was a multi year catalyst. The situation with MCZ is completely different.
The fact of the matter is that this whole situation really stinks of a pump and dump scam that people all the time with penny stocks.
I hope you do well with MCZ but playing in something MCZ is just plain gambling. If you want to talk about investing in long term trends or active trading, like I do, come chat with me and a few others in the CAG stock market club.[/quote]
I will look into this club you speak off, but as I said in the OP, I'm not looking to this as a long term investment. This is neither a pump and dump either. If I was trying for that, I wouldn't be in "Cheap Ass Gamer" trying to enlighten some fellow gamers to the stock game.
Just thought I saw something a lot of people might have missed is all.
What forum is the CAG club in?
The fact of the matter is that this whole situation really stinks of a pump and dump scam that people all the time with penny stocks.
I hope you do well with MCZ but playing in something MCZ is just plain gambling. If you want to talk about investing in long term trends or active trading, like I do, come chat with me and a few others in the CAG stock market club.[/quote]
I will look into this club you speak off, but as I said in the OP, I'm not looking to this as a long term investment. This is neither a pump and dump either. If I was trying for that, I wouldn't be in "Cheap Ass Gamer" trying to enlighten some fellow gamers to the stock game.
Just thought I saw something a lot of people might have missed is all.
What forum is the CAG club in?
Madcatz is working on changing its reputation. They're working very hard to do so. Considering that their reputation thus far has been shit, it's not too hard to do, but they're trying to change it by leaps and bounds.
Even people who know nothing about fighting games have taken notice in the steps that Madcatz has taken. If you know anything at all about the gaming industry, you've heard something from Madcatz PR about their new approach. Once they start getting more consumer confidence, they'll start selling more in general. They're buffing their reputation with not only consumers, but developers/publishers out there. They're more willing to let Madcatz handle their official products when they see how much time and work will go into them. If the right steps are taken, Madcatz can do extremely well in the coming years. They already have a partnership with Gamestop, if I remember, and high value licenses could prove very useful.
What this spells for the stock, I have no idea, but I think that those who are saying the OP is "putting too much faith in Street Fighter" are mistaken. It's not really about Street Fighter. It's about Madcatz's reputation and how that'll completely change the way their business operates.
Even people who know nothing about fighting games have taken notice in the steps that Madcatz has taken. If you know anything at all about the gaming industry, you've heard something from Madcatz PR about their new approach. Once they start getting more consumer confidence, they'll start selling more in general. They're buffing their reputation with not only consumers, but developers/publishers out there. They're more willing to let Madcatz handle their official products when they see how much time and work will go into them. If the right steps are taken, Madcatz can do extremely well in the coming years. They already have a partnership with Gamestop, if I remember, and high value licenses could prove very useful.
What this spells for the stock, I have no idea, but I think that those who are saying the OP is "putting too much faith in Street Fighter" are mistaken. It's not really about Street Fighter. It's about Madcatz's reputation and how that'll completely change the way their business operates.
[quote name='GuardianE']Madcatz is working on changing its reputation. They're working very hard to do so. Considering that their reputation thus far has been shit, it's not too hard to do, but they're trying to change it by leaps and bounds.
Even people who know nothing about fighting games have taken notice in the steps that Madcatz has taken. If you know anything at all about the gaming industry, you've heard something from Madcatz PR about their new approach. Once they start getting more consumer confidence, they'll start selling more in general. They're buffing their reputation with not only consumers, but developers/publishers out there. They're more willing to let Madcatz handle their official products when they see how much time and work will go into them. If the right steps are taken, Madcatz can do extremely well in the coming years. They already have a partnership with Gamestop, if I remember, and high value licenses could prove very useful.
What this spells for the stock, I have no idea, but I think that those who are saying the OP is "putting too much faith in Street Fighter" are mistaken. It's not really about Street Fighter. It's about Madcatz's reputation and how that'll completely change the way their business operates.[/quote]
Actually it is very much about SFIV. If SFIV doesn't do well and retailers are stuck with an assload of expensive joysticks and fight pads no one wants to buy at MSRP, who's to say that MadCatz will continue to invest in higher end products in the future? Only MM and the accounting/marketing folks at MadCatz can say exactly how much this project means to the company's bottom line and future product lines, but I'm guessing they have certain expectations, and beyond that, a Plan B should those expectations not pan out.
Even people who know nothing about fighting games have taken notice in the steps that Madcatz has taken. If you know anything at all about the gaming industry, you've heard something from Madcatz PR about their new approach. Once they start getting more consumer confidence, they'll start selling more in general. They're buffing their reputation with not only consumers, but developers/publishers out there. They're more willing to let Madcatz handle their official products when they see how much time and work will go into them. If the right steps are taken, Madcatz can do extremely well in the coming years. They already have a partnership with Gamestop, if I remember, and high value licenses could prove very useful.
What this spells for the stock, I have no idea, but I think that those who are saying the OP is "putting too much faith in Street Fighter" are mistaken. It's not really about Street Fighter. It's about Madcatz's reputation and how that'll completely change the way their business operates.[/quote]
Actually it is very much about SFIV. If SFIV doesn't do well and retailers are stuck with an assload of expensive joysticks and fight pads no one wants to buy at MSRP, who's to say that MadCatz will continue to invest in higher end products in the future? Only MM and the accounting/marketing folks at MadCatz can say exactly how much this project means to the company's bottom line and future product lines, but I'm guessing they have certain expectations, and beyond that, a Plan B should those expectations not pan out.
[quote name='gunm']Actually it is very much about SFIV. If SFIV doesn't do well and retailers are stuck with an assload of expensive joysticks and fight pads no one wants to buy at MSRP, who's to say that MadCatz will continue to invest in higher end products in the future? Only MM and the accounting/marketing folks at MadCatz can say exactly how much this project means to the company's bottom line, but I'm guessing they have certain expectations and on top of that, a Plan B should those expectations not pan out.[/quote]
All of the expensive joysticks have already been sold out via preorders....at MSRP.
And because I don't know about Mad Catz long term (though MarkMan has been hinting a bit), I'm not pitching this as a buy and sell at retirement kinda deal. I'm merely doing a wait and see on how SF4 goes over.
Best case? I double or maybe triple my money by late spring/summer.
Worst case? I hang on to the stock till after Christmas '09, where almost every gaming companies posts a profit or breaks even, then I sell and break even.
That's how I see it.
All of the expensive joysticks have already been sold out via preorders....at MSRP.
And because I don't know about Mad Catz long term (though MarkMan has been hinting a bit), I'm not pitching this as a buy and sell at retirement kinda deal. I'm merely doing a wait and see on how SF4 goes over.
Best case? I double or maybe triple my money by late spring/summer.
Worst case? I hang on to the stock till after Christmas '09, where almost every gaming companies posts a profit or breaks even, then I sell and break even.
That's how I see it.
Yeah, but is 3000 sticks enough sold to put the high-end line into the black? No, it's maybe enough to justify them doing it as test run in the first place.
The question I think you're missing is: "can they sell enough $150 sticks to make the kind of bank to really move the stock"? No one really knows...yet.
If I had one opinion about this "new age" of stock market picking is that there are too many short sellers who turn things into a game of speculation. Investor success shouldn't be about "can I guess what other people will guess about how well a company does". Really it should be about, "is this company making money and able to provide a return on investment". The market and economy is better off by this, IMO. Too many bubbles burst when the roller coaster is at the bottom of the ride.
The question I think you're missing is: "can they sell enough $150 sticks to make the kind of bank to really move the stock"? No one really knows...yet.
If I had one opinion about this "new age" of stock market picking is that there are too many short sellers who turn things into a game of speculation. Investor success shouldn't be about "can I guess what other people will guess about how well a company does". Really it should be about, "is this company making money and able to provide a return on investment". The market and economy is better off by this, IMO. Too many bubbles burst when the roller coaster is at the bottom of the ride.
BillyBob29
CAGiversary!
That's not the worst case though. Worst case is that the company, which is already in very shaky condition financially, goes belly up......which in this economic climate is a very real possibility.
That is my problem with this play. It is an "all or nothing" type of trade and I just don't go for those. I always look for solid risk/reward scenarios, I never take a trade that doesn't offer at least 3:1 reward to risk, but this just doesn't seem worthwhile to me.
[quote name='gunm']Actually it is very much about SFIV. If SFIV doesn't do well and retailers are stuck with an assload of expensive joysticks and fight pads no one wants to buy at MSRP, who's to say that MadCatz will continue to invest in higher end products in the future? Only MM and the accounting/marketing folks at MadCatz can say exactly how much this project means to the company's bottom line and future product lines, but I'm guessing they have certain expectations, and beyond that, a Plan B should those expectations not pan out.[/quote]
I don't think anyone believes that the SFIV accessory lineup is going to flop. That's not the question here. Madcatz and Capcom reps have stated that these items are not going to sit on shelves forever, if for no other reason than they're simply not making that many. The Fightpads? Possibly. I can see them getting reduced in price. The TE stick is already sold out and from the sound of things the Fightsticks aren't going to be particularly easy to find. Of course, it could be PR talk, but that's really all we have to work with to gauge how these items will do.
I think that the accessories will sell well. I feel like the real question is how much that will impact Madcatz. People in this thread are questioning just how much the success of one controller can influence a stock price, but in reality it's much more than just one controller. It's more than just Capcom. It's Rockband. It's Wii accessories. It opens up an entire market.
And you're right. They could end up making shit again. This is why I prefaced my previous statement with "if it's handled correctly." Madcatz can easily screw it all up.
I don't think anyone believes that the SFIV accessory lineup is going to flop. That's not the question here. Madcatz and Capcom reps have stated that these items are not going to sit on shelves forever, if for no other reason than they're simply not making that many. The Fightpads? Possibly. I can see them getting reduced in price. The TE stick is already sold out and from the sound of things the Fightsticks aren't going to be particularly easy to find. Of course, it could be PR talk, but that's really all we have to work with to gauge how these items will do.
I think that the accessories will sell well. I feel like the real question is how much that will impact Madcatz. People in this thread are questioning just how much the success of one controller can influence a stock price, but in reality it's much more than just one controller. It's more than just Capcom. It's Rockband. It's Wii accessories. It opens up an entire market.
And you're right. They could end up making shit again. This is why I prefaced my previous statement with "if it's handled correctly." Madcatz can easily screw it all up.
[quote name='gunm']Yeah, but is 3000 sticks enough sold to put the high-end line into the black? No, it's maybe enough to justify them doing it as test run in the first place.
The question I think you're missing is: "can they sell enough $150 sticks to make the kind of bank to really move the stock"? No one really knows...yet.
If I had one opinion about this "new age" of stock market picking is that there are too many short sellers who turn things into a game of speculation. Investor success shouldn't be about "can I guess what other people will guess about how well a company does". Really it should be about, "is this company making money and able to provide a return on investment". The market and economy is better off by this, IMO. Too many bubbles burst when the roller coaster is at the bottom of the ride.[/quote]
I've already stated, and you are forgetting to point out, that the pads and Fight Sticks are also solid. I know, because I went hands on with them myself at CES last week.
Factor all of THAT in, along with the swag items (skinz/faceplates/wall scrolls), and it paints a whole different picture.
And, AFAIK, the pads and fightsticks will not be in limited supply. Those 360 Pads (the Saturn looking ones) will sell like hotcakes, wire or not.
The question I think you're missing is: "can they sell enough $150 sticks to make the kind of bank to really move the stock"? No one really knows...yet.
If I had one opinion about this "new age" of stock market picking is that there are too many short sellers who turn things into a game of speculation. Investor success shouldn't be about "can I guess what other people will guess about how well a company does". Really it should be about, "is this company making money and able to provide a return on investment". The market and economy is better off by this, IMO. Too many bubbles burst when the roller coaster is at the bottom of the ride.[/quote]
I've already stated, and you are forgetting to point out, that the pads and Fight Sticks are also solid. I know, because I went hands on with them myself at CES last week.
Factor all of THAT in, along with the swag items (skinz/faceplates/wall scrolls), and it paints a whole different picture.
And, AFAIK, the pads and fightsticks will not be in limited supply. Those 360 Pads (the Saturn looking ones) will sell like hotcakes, wire or not.
[quote name='GuardianE']I don't think anyone believes that the SFIV accessory lineup is going to flop. That's not the question here. Madcatz and Capcom reps have stated that these items are not going to sit on shelves forever. The Fightpads? Possibly. I can see them getting reduced in price. The TE stick is already sold out and from the sound of things the Fightsticks aren't going to be particularly easy to find. Of course, it could be PR talk, but that's
I think that the accessories will sell well. I feel like the real question is how much that will impact Madcatz. People in this thread are questioning just how much the success of one controller can influence a stock price, but in reality it's much more than just one controller. It's more than just Capcom. It's Rockband. It's Wii accessories. It opens up an entire market.
And you're right. They could end up making shit again. This is why I prefaced my previous statement with "if it's handled correctly." Madcatz can easily screw it all up.[/quote]
No item sits on a store shelf forever. At least not in the current retail environment of Wal-Mart big box dealers.
The OP is stating that SFIV will blow up and hence MadCatz will blow up, if only for a short time. I think a lot of us are leary of this kind of investing logic. It's just not financially sound.
And the Rockband accessory market is or will soon peak. I can't see people continuing to buy these plastic instrument items that take up space in this kind of economy. Just seeing my drum kit assembled in my living room makes me realize I have too many plastic guitars and shit all over my house.
I know what you're saying about Mad Catz trying to do a goodwill effort on it's brand(s) with the SFIV TE stick. I plunked down for it as I know many have. That to me, is a different discussion though.
I think that the accessories will sell well. I feel like the real question is how much that will impact Madcatz. People in this thread are questioning just how much the success of one controller can influence a stock price, but in reality it's much more than just one controller. It's more than just Capcom. It's Rockband. It's Wii accessories. It opens up an entire market.
And you're right. They could end up making shit again. This is why I prefaced my previous statement with "if it's handled correctly." Madcatz can easily screw it all up.[/quote]
No item sits on a store shelf forever. At least not in the current retail environment of Wal-Mart big box dealers.
The OP is stating that SFIV will blow up and hence MadCatz will blow up, if only for a short time. I think a lot of us are leary of this kind of investing logic. It's just not financially sound.
And the Rockband accessory market is or will soon peak. I can't see people continuing to buy these plastic instrument items that take up space in this kind of economy. Just seeing my drum kit assembled in my living room makes me realize I have too many plastic guitars and shit all over my house.
I know what you're saying about Mad Catz trying to do a goodwill effort on it's brand(s) with the SFIV TE stick. I plunked down for it as I know many have. That to me, is a different discussion though.
[quote name='GuardianE']I don't think anyone believes that the SFIV accessory lineup is going to flop. That's not the question here. Madcatz and Capcom reps have stated that these items are not going to sit on shelves forever, if for no other reason than they're simply not making that many. The Fightpads? Possibly. I can see them getting reduced in price. The TE stick is already sold out and from the sound of things the Fightsticks aren't going to be particularly easy to find. Of course, it could be PR talk, but that's really all we have to work with to gauge how these items will do.
I think that the accessories will sell well. I feel like the real question is how much that will impact Madcatz. People in this thread are questioning just how much the success of one controller can influence a stock price, but in reality it's much more than just one controller. It's more than just Capcom. It's Rockband. It's Wii accessories. It opens up an entire market.
And you're right. They could end up making shit again. This is why I prefaced my previous statement with "if it's handled correctly." Madcatz can easily screw it all up.[/quote]
Just glad I'm not the only voice of reason in here. Thanks.
I think that the accessories will sell well. I feel like the real question is how much that will impact Madcatz. People in this thread are questioning just how much the success of one controller can influence a stock price, but in reality it's much more than just one controller. It's more than just Capcom. It's Rockband. It's Wii accessories. It opens up an entire market.
And you're right. They could end up making shit again. This is why I prefaced my previous statement with "if it's handled correctly." Madcatz can easily screw it all up.[/quote]
Just glad I'm not the only voice of reason in here. Thanks.
[quote name='Knoxximus']I've already stated, and you are forgetting to point out, that the pads and Fight Sticks are also solid. I know, because I went hands on with them myself at CES last week.
Factor all of THAT in, along with the swag items (skinz/faceplates/wall scrolls), and it paints a whole different picture.
And, AFAIK, the pads and fightsticks will not be in limited supply. Those 360 Pads (the Saturn looking ones) will sell like hotcakes, wire or not.[/quote]
No, I know the sticks and pads are rockin'. I pre-ordered them myself (and have stated so). Again, you're assuming that SFIV will blow up, hence these accessories will blow up and then the stock for MadCatz will blow up. I'm not saying you're wrong, but that's just a lot of speculation and myself along with others are simply trying reinforce that. Of course, I don't believe in this type of stock picking because it's not based on any financial logic beyond assumptions about what people might or might not buy. Really, if MadCatz doesn't have a good balance sheet at the end of the year, it won't matter if the SFIV stuff sells well. Companies can sell assloads of stuff and still be in debt or have cash flow problems. The point is, do the research. Picking on instinct may work for some people, but IMO it's bad for finance in general.
Factor all of THAT in, along with the swag items (skinz/faceplates/wall scrolls), and it paints a whole different picture.
And, AFAIK, the pads and fightsticks will not be in limited supply. Those 360 Pads (the Saturn looking ones) will sell like hotcakes, wire or not.[/quote]
No, I know the sticks and pads are rockin'. I pre-ordered them myself (and have stated so). Again, you're assuming that SFIV will blow up, hence these accessories will blow up and then the stock for MadCatz will blow up. I'm not saying you're wrong, but that's just a lot of speculation and myself along with others are simply trying reinforce that. Of course, I don't believe in this type of stock picking because it's not based on any financial logic beyond assumptions about what people might or might not buy. Really, if MadCatz doesn't have a good balance sheet at the end of the year, it won't matter if the SFIV stuff sells well. Companies can sell assloads of stuff and still be in debt or have cash flow problems. The point is, do the research. Picking on instinct may work for some people, but IMO it's bad for finance in general.
[quote name='gunm']No, I know the sticks and pads are rockin'. I pre-ordered them myself (and have stated so). Again, you're assuming that SFIV will blow up, hence these accessories will blow up and then the stock for MadCatz will blow up. I'm not saying you're wrong, but that's just a lot of speculation and myself along with others are simply trying reinforce that. Of course, I don't believe in this type of stock picking because it's not based on any financial logic beyond assumptions about what people might or might not buy. Really, if MadCatz doesn't have a good balance sheet at the end of the year, it won't matter if the SFIV stuff sells well. Companies can sell assloads of stuff and still be in debt or have cash flow problems. The point is, do the research. Picking on instinct may work for some people, but IMO it's bad for finance in general.[/quote]
In the OP I stated their Q2 2009 fiscals. Yeah, they were 1.2 million in the red, but grossed some 53 million. That means they almost broke even without any buzz and no killer apps. I feel the positive press they are getting will change things.
In the OP I stated their Q2 2009 fiscals. Yeah, they were 1.2 million in the red, but grossed some 53 million. That means they almost broke even without any buzz and no killer apps. I feel the positive press they are getting will change things.
Well, being 1.2 million down isn't breaking even--I daresay it isn't really close to breaking even either, even for a company like MadCatz with historically bad ROI. But I understand what you're betting on and I'm not disagreeing with that bet per se. Companies like Mad Catz have lots of room to grow (although I'm sure the accessory market will be hit really hard in the current economy), but the majority of investors, experienced or not, tend to be risk averse, and betting on Mad Catz is risky right now. I'm glad you toned down the OP and subject line.
I'd be very interested to see what this stock is like come Februrary.
I'd be very interested to see what this stock is like come Februrary.
I think maybe the stock might be decent as part of a larger portfolio, but what it seems the OP is doing is day trading, high risk and high reward. But more power to him if he is right more often than not and has the money. I doubt the stick will sell in massive amounts, mainly because it is a high quality product from what was a really horrible company in the past, and thus comes at a price, $150. I'm sure many people will buy this, collectors and the hardcore street fighter fighting fan. But there are many more fighting fan who will forgo this and built their own stick so the market is very limited.
[quote name='mykevermin']1 controller, no matter how good it is, will make a stock jump 300%.
That's not to say MCZ won't improve over time, if what MarkMan hints at is true.
But this is basing market change in a shitty climate based upon a limited release item that appeals to a niche base. Intriguing to examine, but no thank you.[/QUOTE]
holy shit, just bought 1000 shares of every company releasing a controller soon or in the future. Thanks myke :lol:
In reality, a person more likely to make a nice return on the sold out Tournament Edition sticks on ebay rather than madcatz stock.
That's not to say MCZ won't improve over time, if what MarkMan hints at is true.
But this is basing market change in a shitty climate based upon a limited release item that appeals to a niche base. Intriguing to examine, but no thank you.[/QUOTE]
holy shit, just bought 1000 shares of every company releasing a controller soon or in the future. Thanks myke :lol:
In reality, a person more likely to make a nice return on the sold out Tournament Edition sticks on ebay rather than madcatz stock.
elwood731
CAGiversary!
[quote name='Knoxximus']Do the math on that one, chief.
I got my share of the Wall Street bailout...did you?[/QUOTE]
Chief? See, that story only makes me trust your opinion even less. You started out telling us how you invest in gaming stocks because that's what you know, but now you're a genius at the stock market in general. You claim it isn't a pump and dump, but that is exactly what you're behaving like, telling everyone this stock will triple off the sales of a single joystick. May happen, may not. Still, your credibility on the subject is about zero.
By the way, anyone bragging about money they make is usually one of two thinks 1) insecure and/or 2) a liar. Good rule of thumb in life.
I got my share of the Wall Street bailout...did you?
[/QUOTE]Chief? See, that story only makes me trust your opinion even less. You started out telling us how you invest in gaming stocks because that's what you know, but now you're a genius at the stock market in general. You claim it isn't a pump and dump, but that is exactly what you're behaving like, telling everyone this stock will triple off the sales of a single joystick. May happen, may not. Still, your credibility on the subject is about zero.
By the way, anyone bragging about money they make is usually one of two thinks 1) insecure and/or 2) a liar. Good rule of thumb in life.
[quote name='ninja dog']
In reality, a person more likely to make a nice return on the sold out Tournament Edition sticks on ebay rather than madcatz stock.[/quote]
haha, that's actually a better idea. Buy one of those sticks and resell it on eBay. Worst case scenario is you have the stick to use yourself.
Don't forget that for the average non-day trader with a typical brokerage account, they're going to pay about $20 to buy stock, and then $20 to sell. That cuts down into any profit you *may* get from buying shares of MCZ.
In reality, a person more likely to make a nice return on the sold out Tournament Edition sticks on ebay rather than madcatz stock.[/quote]
haha, that's actually a better idea. Buy one of those sticks and resell it on eBay. Worst case scenario is you have the stick to use yourself.
Don't forget that for the average non-day trader with a typical brokerage account, they're going to pay about $20 to buy stock, and then $20 to sell. That cuts down into any profit you *may* get from buying shares of MCZ.
[quote name='mtxbass1']haha, that's actually a better idea. Buy one of those sticks and resell it on eBay. Worst case scenario is you have the stick to use yourself.
Don't forget that for the average non-day trader with a typical brokerage account, they're going to pay about $20 to buy stock, and then $20 to sell. That cuts down into any profit you *may* get from buying shares of MCZ.[/QUOTE]
whoa $20? I was quoted $12.99 at etrade...maybe there are more charges than I'm aware of.
Don't forget that for the average non-day trader with a typical brokerage account, they're going to pay about $20 to buy stock, and then $20 to sell. That cuts down into any profit you *may* get from buying shares of MCZ.[/QUOTE]
whoa $20? I was quoted $12.99 at etrade...maybe there are more charges than I'm aware of.
They only made 3,000 units of the SFIV stick in the initial run. With a $150 retail I'm guessing they sell it for somewhere around $100. 3,000 x $100 = $300,000. Given how bad the midjudged the initial demand I don't have high hopes on their ability to chase the upside profitably. I can just imagine a marketing manager signing off on a few new sets of tooling that won't even be up and running until a month after SFIV releases.
I hope this is a joke, fighting games are not what they used to be and I doubt there is any real demand for a fighting stick except from the really hard core, who are not large enough for them to make a big profit. If they're going to make money on anything it's from selling cheap regular controllers (a $20 controller for either 360 or ps3 could make some money).
Their stock may turn around (since it's so low it wouldn't take that much to turn a profit), but not from this.
Their stock may turn around (since it's so low it wouldn't take that much to turn a profit), but not from this.
[quote name='ninja dog']whoa $20? I was quoted $12.99 at etrade...maybe there are more charges than I'm aware of.[/quote]
Depends on your broker. ETrade is lower than some, higher than others. I'm not a fan of them thanks to their wonderful quarterly account fees.
Even still, $13 to buy, and $13 to sell eats into your profits, and don't forget that you're going to be paying capital gains tax as well on any profit you make.
Depends on your broker. ETrade is lower than some, higher than others. I'm not a fan of them thanks to their wonderful quarterly account fees.
Even still, $13 to buy, and $13 to sell eats into your profits, and don't forget that you're going to be paying capital gains tax as well on any profit you make.
[quote name='elwood731']Chief? See, that story only makes me trust your opinion even less. You started out telling us how you invest in gaming stocks because that's what you know, but now you're a genius at the stock market in general. You claim it isn't a pump and dump, but that is exactly what you're behaving like, telling everyone this stock will triple off the sales of a single joystick. May happen, may not. Still, your credibility on the subject is about zero.
By the way, anyone bragging about money they make is usually one of two thinks 1) insecure and/or 2) a liar. Good rule of thumb in life.[/quote]
Whatever floats your boat man. And I've said a few times now that I AM NOT BANKING ON A SINGLE JOYSTICK. Especially one that will have an initial run of 3,000. Also, why would I try a pump and dump in here?!? How much of a waste of time would that be? But whatever man.
By the way, anyone bragging about money they make is usually one of two thinks 1) insecure and/or 2) a liar. Good rule of thumb in life.[/quote]
Whatever floats your boat man. And I've said a few times now that I AM NOT BANKING ON A SINGLE JOYSTICK. Especially one that will have an initial run of 3,000. Also, why would I try a pump and dump in here?!? How much of a waste of time would that be? But whatever man.
[quote name='ninja dog']whoa $20? I was quoted $12.99 at etrade...maybe there are more charges than I'm aware of.[/quote]
Shop around, there places that are cheaper albeit more "self-serve". Also, check your existing financial providers (i.e. whoever might be doing your 401K for work, etc) as they may offer discounts for brokerage services packaged into the other financial services.
Shop around, there places that are cheaper albeit more "self-serve". Also, check your existing financial providers (i.e. whoever might be doing your 401K for work, etc) as they may offer discounts for brokerage services packaged into the other financial services.
Rusty Ghia
CAGiversary!
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Didn't Mad Catz buy Saitek last year? Now, I've never purchased any Mad Catz merchandise as I've always heard that they're a bit....rubbish, but I have nothing but positive things to say about Saitek.
Nathan_Sama
CAGiversary!
I like money.
[quote name='Rusty Ghia']Didn't Mad Catz buy Saitek last year? Now, I've never purchased any Mad Catz merchandise as I've always heard that they're a bit....rubbish, but I have nothing but positive things to say about Saitek.[/quote]
Actually, they bought them in '07.
Actually, they bought them in '07.
bread's done