Windows 8

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Release Date: October 26th.

Now that it's nearly upon us, I'm wondering what other PC Cags have to say about it. In my opinion, it's a bit too pricey. I really want it, but I can't see dumping so much money into it right now. I've done a bit of research about its features, and this is what I've found:

General performance: Win 8 is supposed to take fewer resources on the whole, load faster, and shutdown quicker than Win 7 right out of the box. I've seen benchmarks that prove this.

Gaming performance: Win 8 manages to output about ~99% of what Win 7 can currently do. The smart money is on Win 8 eventually surpassing Win 7 for benchmark standards when all of the drivers/compatibility fixes catch up.

App store: I don't know much about this, only that they're going to try to mimic the mobile market. Sounds interesting, I just wonder how cheap it'll be after GWFL's practices.

Xbox Live integration: There will be achievements for things like freecell, I'm kind of psyched about this. I wonder if my GFWL titles will become easier to use in Win 8.

Thoughts, fellow cags?
 
Trash OS is Trash....Mind you I'm getting it for free and I still don't want it.
 
From what I have seen it does nothing for me. I would like to try a full version of it out, but I don't see me sticking with it. However with that said if the two of you don't want it I will gladly take it off your hands.
 
I can get it for free through work but I've seen nothing appealing about it.

But really I've seen nothing appealing about any version of Windows since XP. You just eventually get forced into it.

Hopefully Win 9 isn't a piece of shit.
 
[quote name='crystalklear64']I can get it for free through work but I've seen nothing appealing about it.

But really I've seen nothing appealing about any version of Windows since XP. You just eventually get forced into it.

Hopefully Win 9 isn't a piece of shit.[/QUOTE]

XP is so glorious I have not found any reason to go to 7 and Linux has already caught my heart with Mint 12.
 
Well I personally am looking forward to it myself, I like the design of the OS and how it matches what I use on the 360 and my Windows Phone, the achievements are also a plus to me. Plus I'm going to college for computer support so it's always nice to learn about different OS's, I do have the deal where I can get it for $15 for purchasing a computer recently though as well.
 
I'm not going to argue about it and people can bash it all it wants, however under the hood Windows 8 is absolutely great. That's probably because I work in a business/enterprise environment where a lot of these new or re-done features that make everything work so much better with the new Windows Server 2013. And most people who complain about it seem to complain that Metro sucks and need to realize that you can actually turn it off so it looks like a normal desktop.

The only thing that I will hate when some company I support goes to Windows 8 (if they do), is educating users on the lack of a visible start menu. Otherwise it's not much different than Windows 7 from a user perspective.
 
Great, I was hoping to get some perspective here but so much for that...

Should I buy this now due to all the prices/promos? I see that Newegg is selling the full retail copy of Pro for $110.
 
Looks like as of right now an upgrade to 8 is only 70 bucks. Not to bad, but I will hold off till I upgrade if I even do. Like I said I would like to try it, but just not sold on it.
 
[quote name='Vinny']Great, I was hoping to get some perspective here but so much for that...

Should I buy this now due to all the prices/promos? I see that Newegg is selling the full retail copy of Pro for $110.[/QUOTE]

Hard to say. There is no "Full Version" so far. Just an Upgrade (that doesn't have 'upgrade' in its name) that can be purchased for $70 or the OEM that's roughly $140 (Full version but meant for a single computer build) and is $30 cheaper with Newegg's discount. I haven't heard anything on whether or not you can "cheat" the upgrade/full system like you could with Windows 7.

Whether or not you want to upgrade is more your choice. From what I've seen, it provides normal users no real reason to switch from Windows 7 for standard desktops and laptops. Tablets though, the little I've played with it I thought it was fantastic.

If you do end up buying it, find out how to get the normal desktop GUI interface and as for the start menu. I would recommend getting used to the standard way where you click in the bottom left and it pops up but has no visible start menu icon to actually select. Control Panel is accessible from the other end of the task bar.

I haven't played with it enough to really give a real insightful opinion and I doubt most here have. Next time I reformat, I will be installing Windows 8 as my main personal computer which is still a few months away from happening. Otherwise I've only tinkered with it here and there and tested some background stuff they put in that's more server centric.


[quote name='Lawyers Guns N Money']Microsoft seems to be working towards a closed system with Win 8, and that bugs me.
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/179420[/QUOTE]

Obviously I can't say with certainty, but it seems like people are throwing it out of proportion. Microsoft is trying to push its store and in order to be in it, you have to follow their rules. If you aren't in it, they aren't stopping you from installing software on the OS whether it's old or not.
 
[quote name='Draekon']I'm not going to argue about it and people can bash it all it wants, however under the hood Windows 8 is absolutely great. That's probably because I work in a business/enterprise environment where a lot of these new or re-done features that make everything work so much better with the new Windows Server 2013. And most people who complain about it seem to complain that Metro sucks and need to realize that you can actually turn it off so it looks like a normal desktop.

The only thing that I will hate when some company I support goes to Windows 8 (if they do), is educating users on the lack of a visible start menu. Otherwise it's not much different than Windows 7 from a user perspective.[/QUOTE]How can I turn off Metro? I'm serious, because everything I've seen so far either no longer works, or involves something that most people are not going to want to do.
 
[quote name='Clak']How can I turn off Metro? I'm serious, because everything I've seen so far either no longer works, or involves something that most people are not going to want to do.[/QUOTE]

I'm fairly certain it's still possible, it just isn't as easy anymore I believe (whereas before you could just flip a registry key before they took that away). I would have to download and install my latest TechNet copy in a VM to test and then get back to you. I don't plan to unless you, or someone else really wants to know.

However, murph17 did provide a link for one that may work: http://classicshell.sourceforge.net/




And actually, if I remember right... you can just hit the Windows Key (or hit the Desktop button) to switch between Metro and standard Desktop (without the traditional start menu). My information may be old though. I haven't touched Windows 8 post-RTM yet and removed my old Windows 8 VM a month ago to free up space.
 
[quote name='Draekon']However, murph17 did provide a link for one that may work: http://classicshell.sourceforge.net/[/QUOTE]

Yeah at first it was just a simple regkey, but then MS got sneaky about it. This app will install a start button and boot you right to the desktop (not Metro). There are a couple of others - one was a beta though, the other came with a bunch of toolbar crap. This one seems the easiest/cleanest.

Also the $70 upgrade is for a DVD. You will be able to download for $40.
 
[quote name='murph17']It's not that bad. If you like Windows 7 you will like Windows 8...once you turn off all the Metro touch crap (http://classicshell.sourceforge.net/). I wouldn't go out of my way to buy it, but obviously your next PC is probably going to come with it and that's OK.[/QUOTE]

Obviously our next PC will come with it? Do you know where you're posting? The majority of people who post in this section build their computers. If you're into PC gaming and you're buying a pre-made, you're doing it wrong.
 
If I could get an upgrade for $40, I'd buy it today... I really want to try it out. It's exciting to think about tweaking my computer using experience significantly. I think in a few months, it'll be getting better performance than Win 7 too.

As far as the fears of a less open platform go, I think that's silly. I'll dig up the article I read about it and edit it in.

EDIT: Ok, here the claim that Windows 8 is bad for gaming and leads to a less open platform is extrapolated on: http://kotaku.com/5936535/windows-8-is-not-good-for-gamers

The argument is pretty silly IMO. They're saying that by having a more promoted GFWL type atmosphere, it's going to affect third party clients like steam somehow. I'm not seeing it. And here's the truth that debunks that idea: http://gizmodo.com/5937590/youre-being-lied-to-windows-8-isnt-bad-for-gaming
 
[quote name='Draekon']I'm fairly certain it's still possible, it just isn't as easy anymore I believe (whereas before you could just flip a registry key before they took that away). I would have to download and install my latest TechNet copy in a VM to test and then get back to you. I don't plan to unless you, or someone else really wants to know.

However, murph17 did provide a link for one that may work: http://classicshell.sourceforge.net/




And actually, if I remember right... you can just hit the Windows Key (or hit the Desktop button) to switch between Metro and standard Desktop (without the traditional start menu). My information may be old though. I haven't touched Windows 8 post-RTM yet and removed my old Windows 8 VM a month ago to free up space.[/QUOTE]
Yeah see, I knew all that already. The truth is that the traditional desktop is gone and according to MS, it isn't coming back. I knew one day something would push me to Linux, and this just may be the thing. Microsoft can keep their wannabe tablet OS.
 
I'm getting a copy free from work and been running the prerelease. I don't really care for it so might sell my upgrade for buying a new laptop that I get for 15 since I don't care to put it on any of my others computers. Probably keep it dual booting on my main pc for any games that might need 8 to run.
 
[quote name='Draekon']Hard to say. There is no "Full Version" so far. Just an Upgrade (that doesn't have 'upgrade' in its name) that can be purchased for $70 or the OEM that's roughly $140 (Full version but meant for a single computer build) and is $30 cheaper with Newegg's discount. I haven't heard anything on whether or not you can "cheat" the upgrade/full system like you could with Windows 7.

Whether or not you want to upgrade is more your choice. From what I've seen, it provides normal users no real reason to switch from Windows 7 for standard desktops and laptops. Tablets though, the little I've played with it I thought it was fantastic.

If you do end up buying it, find out how to get the normal desktop GUI interface and as for the start menu. I would recommend getting used to the standard way where you click in the bottom left and it pops up but has no visible start menu icon to actually select. Control Panel is accessible from the other end of the task bar.

I haven't played with it enough to really give a real insightful opinion and I doubt most here have. Next time I reformat, I will be installing Windows 8 as my main personal computer which is still a few months away from happening. Otherwise I've only tinkered with it here and there and tested some background stuff they put in that's more server centric.




Obviously I can't say with certainty, but it seems like people are throwing it out of proportion. Microsoft is trying to push its store and in order to be in it, you have to follow their rules. If you aren't in it, they aren't stopping you from installing software on the OS whether it's old or not.[/QUOTE]

Ah... ok. Thanks for clearing that up. I think I'll wait then, and see what happens after a year or two.
 
My stance so far on Win 8: I'm not on the fence. I'm looking at the fence.

I don't want risk compatibility with my library of games and high-end hardware.
Also, I hope they add more customization features on the metro.
 
[quote name='Draekon']I'm not going to argue about it and people can bash it all it wants, however under the hood Windows 8 is absolutely great. That's probably because I work in a business/enterprise environment where a lot of these new or re-done features that make everything work so much better with the new Windows Server 2013. And most people who complain about it seem to complain that Metro sucks and need to realize that you can actually turn it off so it looks like a normal desktop.

The only thing that I will hate when some company I support goes to Windows 8 (if they do), is educating users on the lack of a visible start menu. Otherwise it's not much different than Windows 7 from a user perspective.[/QUOTE]
I haven't used it yet but the version of the task manager I saw looks like shit and that is something I use all the time. I didn't even see an ability to sort by User processes vs system.
 
[quote name='crystalklear64']I haven't used it yet but the version of the task manager I saw looks like shit and that is something I use all the time. I didn't even see an ability to sort by User processes vs system.[/QUOTE]
CSHWg.png
 
[quote name='Brownjohn']
CSHWg.png
[/QUOTE]
Oh wow, does that actually detail most svchost processes too or have they finally done away with that? Would make life so much easier troubleshooting memory leaks, etc.
 
I don't know what all the complaining is about. I have the RTM version running on an i5-3870k running at 5.0 GHz, 32GB RAM and SLI Nvidia 670 FTW cards. Games I'm successfully running:

Borderlands 2
Transformers War for Cybertron
Transformers Fall of Cybertron
Need for Speed Hot Pursuit
Need for Speed The Run
Elder Scrolls V Skyrim
Mass Effect 1, 2 and 3
Metro 2033
Nexium HD
Half Life 2, Counterstrike Source, Portal, Portal 2 and Black Mesa (Steam runs fine)
Origin.com client runs fine. I'm running the EA (free coupon glitch) of Mass Effect 1, 2 and NFS Hot Pursuit.

I'm running on an OCZ Vertex 3 Max IOPS SSD Drive for my main Windows 7 and 8 drive. I can switch between OS's anytime and the Nvidia driver is signed for both Windows 7 64 and Windows 8.

PS. I'm running Windows 8 Enterprise 64 bit edition from my MSDN license. Been running since August 15th when it was released. At the time, there were no native Windows 8 drivers for any of my hardware but all the Windows 7 drivers worked fine.

I keep adding more games as I load and test. I really hate the fact I can't move the Windows Apps folder to my data drive - I tried it and broke the metro interface and the MS Store wouldn't work anymore, so I had move everything back.

The game I like on the MS store that's free is Pinball FX. The mars table that is free is very nice and runs even better than on my PS3 and it's at 1900x1200 resolution - I tried higher resolution but the game can't support beyond 1900x1200.

I use a free app called Classic Start that brings back the entire start button and funny thing is, there is a hidden folder with the whole start menu in Windows 8. Just MS won't tell us what the secret sauce is to bring back the old start bar and menu even though the menu is hidden.

I can say starting up, going to sleep and bringing the PC back is about 3-5 seconds faster than Windows 7 and most of the motherboard drivers were not needed in windows 8, everything was built in. Except for USB 3.0 support which was weird.

I can say that most people that have used my computer catch on quickly with the Metro interface because I took a long time to make it pretty organized and didn't hide any icons, I must made spaces for apps instead of it being totally disorganized when you first install.

The ONE thing I really hate about this Windows 8release is if you create a new profile and do it online, it creates an xbox live account with a random name. You have no choice but to then use that username from then on and it's nothing like the username you create. Actually I hate that you have to create an online profile to begin with but since it's all about apps, MS wants your data online.
 
Im already having a hard time running some games in windows 7.. what more with 8? maybe next time
 
my main concern is if 8 would cause crashing and junk. till i got window 7 i had many problems with crashing and stuff not working right unless i rebooted my pc every 2 hours =p
 
[quote name='s0undwav3']

The ONE thing I really hate about this Windows 8release is if you create a new profile and do it online, it creates an xbox live account with a random name. You have no choice but to then use that username from then on and it's nothing like the username you create. Actually I hate that you have to create an online profile to begin with but since it's all about apps, MS wants your data online.[/QUOTE]

That annoyed me also but I found if I accessed it on the xbox it doesn't charge the fee to change the gamertag to something else not taken. It gave guest profile that I made something like StubbornTeacher24 and I was like wtf. I don't know if there is an easier way to change it other than going through the xbox. I just came across it by accident messing around.
 
All current games aren't designed for Windows 8. Which means that if you install Windows 8, and want to run a particular game that isn't published by Microsoft, you have to fire up the Windows 7 interface and run it from there. As I understand, the compatibility in the Windows 7 interface is fairly good, and most people are able to run Windows games from there just fine. Of course, this leads to a very obvious question.

If you have to run games in the Windows 7 interface anyway, what is the point of upgrading to Windows 8 in the first place? If Windows 7 is going to be the platform of choice for games for the foreseeable future, why bother upgrading at all? Why not just run standard Windows 7? The new "Metro" interface is clearly designed with smartphones and tablets in mind. It doesn't really bring anything to the table for the average desktop user.

As soon as they get Steam running on Linux, I'm abandoning Windows. There are very few software packages on Windows that I still need. And those that I do need I will run off my Windows 7 laptop. (or a legacy Windows XP desktop I keep around) Once games start migrating to Linux, it's over for the traditional Windows desktop.
 
[quote name='Richard Kain']All current games aren't designed for Windows 8. Which means that if you install Windows 8, and want to run a particular game that isn't published by Microsoft, you have to fire up the Windows 7 interface and run it from there. As I understand, the compatibility in the Windows 7 interface is fairly good, and most people are able to run Windows games from there just fine. Of course, this leads to a very obvious question.[/QUOTE]

I don't understand what you are talking about, I'm running all the games I mentioned above in native Windows 8 all I need to do is click Desktop and find my icons and run. You can even add the icons to the metro interface and all the games run fine. Have you even used the consumer preview ? You're not making much sense and btw, the standard Windows 8 and Windows 8 Pro has no compatibility mode, only Pro Plus Pack and Enterprise Edition.

[quote name='Richard Kain']If you have to run games in the Windows 7 interface anyway, what is the point of upgrading to Windows 8 in the first place? If Windows 7 is going to be the platform of choice for games for the foreseeable future, why bother upgrading at all? Why not just run standard Windows 7? The new "Metro" interface is clearly designed with smartphones and tablets in mind. It doesn't really bring anything to the table for the average desktop user.[/QUOTE]

It does. Use the consumer preview, install it and learn. Don't just throw out things like that. The interface throws a ton of real time updates like weather, news, game news etc onto the metro platform. I even figured out how to create my own tile and put up some pod casts and play directly from the metro interface which is very cool but it requires you to know programming.

[quote name='Richard Kain']As soon as they get Steam running on Linux, I'm abandoning Windows. There are very few software packages on Windows that I still need. And those that I do need I will run off my Windows 7 laptop. (or a legacy Windows XP desktop I keep around) Once games start migrating to Linux, it's over for the traditional Windows desktop.[/QUOTE]

Good luck on that wait. Valve has announced that is a low priority for them, and why would they target a user base of linux, there's not a whole lot of money to be made on that market? Hell even steam on Mac isn't making a dent and I have a macbook pro and I hardly ever use Steam on my mac. There's no point because even with steam on it, there are so little content and good games available. That'll be the same with linux but worse. The game base is still on MS Windows and I think it'll remain that way. It has been for 25+ years, that's not going to change just because of an interface design change to an OS.

Like I said, you can unlock the start menu and the tried and true apps are found as well..like Paint, Calculator, Snippet Tool, Remote Desktop Client, Disk Defrag etc. All of those don't have tiles by default but once you find the start menu, you can start making tiles for them.
 
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[quote name='sleepydumbdude']That annoyed me also but I found if I accessed it on the xbox it doesn't charge the fee to change the gamertag to something else not taken. It gave guest profile that I made something like StubbornTeacher24 and I was like wtf. I don't know if there is an easier way to change it other than going through the xbox. I just came across it by accident messing around.[/QUOTE]

I don't have an xbox 360 any longer, but the person who bought my xbox 360 never used my xbox 360 account so I can use it but when I was doing testing in VMware I made a bunch of new email accounts and then to start a game in the metro interface it randomly picks an xbox live username and there is no way I can change it even if I download the xbox live client onto windows 8. It's really annoying because of the the accounts actually has a name called stinkypants949459 - i was like way to go MS.
 
My official review: Meh.;)

I've been dealing with Unity for so long now that Metro isn't the horrible evil that most are making it out to be.

I will say that I am not seeing any performance gains in games despite what many have claimed. If anything I've noticed several games suddenly having micro-stutters when they did not in 7.

As for linux gaming: A lot of indie developers do support linux and you can see as much in the Humble Bundles.
 
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[quote name='murph17']It's not that bad. If you like Windows 7 you will like Windows 8...once you turn off all the Metro touch crap (http://classicshell.sourceforge.net/).[/QUOTE]

^^^^^^^ THIS TIMES 1,000,000,000 OVER!

Seriously for everyone who complains about Metro UI (aka "the boxes") and longs for the traditional desktop with start menu then this will give you that. For free.
 
hehe dude if you do mac for a week as a pc guy you'll be coming back to windows even if ya had to sue 8 haha.

i got to put up with not having a mouse zoom and using keyboard short cuts just for simple things because im getting into graphic design. if i ever get a real job in that im just going to ask can i bring my gaming pc to work and edit on that? hehe :(
 
[quote name='Demolition Man']^^^^^^^ THIS TIMES 1,000,000,000 OVER!

Seriously for everyone who complains about Metro UI (aka "the boxes") and longs for the traditional desktop with start menu then this will give you that. For free.[/QUOTE]
Why would I want to buy a new OS and have to go through that just to get back the normal interface? Why wouldn't i just keep 7? For that matter, you don't know if a future update will screw up any method to get the normal desktop back.

No, for now I'll be using 7 and getting more comfortable with Linux, probably Kubuntu. I'm looking forward to how enterprise customers will respond to this, I don't see this being all that popular in the business world, but maybe ill be wrong. I know some sys admins at work said they'd never use it, so take that for what you will.
 
[quote name='Clak']Why would I want to buy a new OS and have to go through that just to get back the normal interface? Why wouldn't i just keep 7? For that matter, you don't know if a future update will screw up any method to get the normal desktop back.[/QUOTE]

They must be new to PC tech.

They are advocating to get a new OS, crossover your existing software, test those software to make sure they work...then work on getting rid of a feature using a 3rd party program hoping that it does not get patched out....

New PC Users are so cute :)
 
I'll be taking advantage of the Windows 8 Pro $40 upgrade. I'm putting a new PC together this weekend. I never upgraded to Win7, still running Vista Ultimate 64 on my current rig. So it will be cheaper just to do the Windows 8 upgrade rather than Win7 upgrade. And my understanding is Windows 8 will run any game Windows 7 will run. I'm planning to dual boot Windows XP Pro 32-bit as well, so I can still play my old games.
 
[quote name='Clak']I'm looking forward to how enterprise customers will respond to this, I don't see this being all that popular in the business world, but maybe ill be wrong. I know some sys admins at work said they'd never use it, so take that for what you will.[/QUOTE]

For the most part, you'll see everybody continuing to migrate to Windows 7. Windows 8 when paired with Windows Server 2012 with a fast business connection is absolutely fucking fantastic for places with heavy remote users (It's called DirectAccess & Enterprise edition only). If anybody in an IT enterprise environment says otherwise, they frankly don't know shit about Windows 8 functionality because they look at the metro UI like anyone else and say "Well, this is a help desk cluster fuck waiting to happen." Which I can partially agree with to a point. There are other nice features added like native ISO mounting as well.

There's also a desktop button in the Metro UI that you can select and go to the desktop instantly. All that program does is make it to where you basically don't see the metro at all. I think people are really overreacting towards metro, but that's another story entirely.

However, yes, there's no reason to upgrade to 8 at all for pretty much any normal user. I still stand by the stance of not really feeling the need to recommend it to anybody over Windows 7. The next version will likely be significantly more user friendly on desktops/laptops.


[quote name='Megazell']They must be new to PC tech.

They are advocating to get a new OS, crossover your existing software, test those software to make sure they work...then work on getting rid of a feature using a 3rd party program hoping that it does not get patched out....

New PC Users are so cute :)[/QUOTE]

I don't want to sound like I'm belittling you or anything, however how are you any different going into Windows threads and gaming threads (that cost anything, with some exceptions) and always spouting that Linux, XP and freeware is awesome and trashing anything else? I'm not going to argue the point or anything, however it doesn't really reflect positively when I see that in a fair amount of threads on a consistent basis.



EDIT: Had to remove the stupid apple icon I accidentally added.
 
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[quote name='Draekon']I don't want to sound like I'm belittling you or anything, however how are you any different going into Windows threads and gaming threads (that cost anything, with some exceptions) and always spouting that Linux, XP and freeware is awesome and trashing anything else? I'm not going to argue the point or anything, however it doesn't really reflect positively when I see that in a fair amount of threads on a consistent basis.[/QUOTE]

It's different on a fundamental level. First off - I am taking about free software...which comes at NO cost to the user and community. While this other poster is talking about buying software and then doing work on it for it run like the way the other poster wanted to...when he could just stay with what he has, in his case Windows 7.

You really don't see a difference there?

Second - This is CHEAPASSGAMERS. What's cheaper then free? How is it not a good thing that I am advocating for others to save a buck. Especially, when it's free retail PC games on top of that, from time to time.

If you don't want to argue the point - fine - but you're not be reasonable if you saying you don't see a different btw the two issues.
 
[quote name='Megazell']It's different on a fundamental level. First off - I am taking about free software...which comes at NO cost to the user and community. While this other poster is talking about buying software and then doing work on it for it run like the way the other poster wanted to...when he could just stay with what he has, in his case Windows 7.

You really don't see a difference there?

Second - This is CHEAPASSGAMERS. What's cheaper then free? How is it not a good thing that I am advocating for others to save a buck. Especially, when it's free retail PC games on top of that, from time to time.

If you don't want to argue the point - fine - but you're not be reasonable if you saying you don't see a different btw the two issues.[/QUOTE]


Issues are always different, the way it's being written is pretty much the same. To me every time I read it, it sounds like you're belittling everybody else when you write those which is the same as what it sounds in your post here. Kind of like the graphic with PC Master Race and Dirty Gaming Console Peasants except without the little graphic that makes it easier to laugh off.

And yeah, internet arguments pretty much go nowhere because you can't really discern what people meant through text. There's no body movement or verbal tones you can go off of. Hence why I don't bother going back and forth more than a couple times at most. My reply was more to inform than to berate based on what I'm seeing. Had nothing to do with the way you interpreted it.


EDIT: My text usually comes off being a bit asshole'ish. I'm usually pretty blunt on things rather than beating around the bush in most situations.
 
The first thing that I do after a fresh install of any OS is spend time updating, tweaking, and customizing so adding shell replacements into that mix is no more or less painful than all of the other nonsense that I'm already doing anyhow.

That's actually part of the fun for me; customizing it to bits, eventually breaking something really important, and then learning to fix what I just broke.

Speaking of, I have a fresh Ubuntu 12.10 install that needs some Cinnamon.;)
 
[quote name='Draekon']Issues are always different, the way it's being written is pretty much the same. To me every time I read it, it sounds like you're belittling everybody else when you write those which is the same as what it sounds in your post here. Kind of like the graphic with PC Master Race and Dirty Gaming Console Peasants except without the little graphic that makes it easier to laugh off.

And yeah, internet arguments pretty much go nowhere because you can't really discern what people meant through text. There's no body movement or verbal tones you can go off of. Hence why I don't bother going back and forth more than a couple times at most. My reply was more to inform than to berate based on what I'm seeing. Had nothing to do with the way you interpreted it.

EDIT: My text usually comes off being a bit asshole'ish. I'm usually pretty blunt on things rather than beating around the bush in most situations.[/QUOTE]

If I was belittling, you would know it. There would be no doubt.
When I spoke about Linux and XP and I spoke in terms of what I do and why. I am also quite honest about what I see in Windows 7 and 8 for me.

Internet argument can be fruitful if the there is an open discourse. For example, I am willing to listen to anyone that can point me in direction that would showcase 7 or 8 being good for me and my family but so far that's not happen. The games I play and enjoy don't benefit from migrating so until someone proven otherwise, I will stay with my stance.

[quote name='Fell Open Ian']The first thing that I do after a fresh install of any OS is spend time updating, tweaking, and customizing so adding shell replacements into that mix is no more or less painful than all of the other nonsense that I'm already doing anyhow.

That's actually part of the fun for me; customizing it to bits, eventually breaking something really important, and then learning to fix what I just broke.

Speaking of, I have a fresh Ubuntu 12.10 install that needs some Cinnamon.;)[/QUOTE]

I hear you but for me...throwing money down to then have to do WORK to get it right when it comes to software always bothered me.

Now if it was free like Linux then I would be all smiles as I did the work.
 
To be fair, I've had a MSDN account forever so Microsoft tosses me keys/discs before I can even begin to think about purchasing a copy of Windows.

Come to think of it, I don't use any paid software on any OS outside of games.
 
[quote name='Fell Open Ian']To be fair, I've had a MSDN account forever so Microsoft tosses me keys/discs before I can even begin to think about purchasing a copy of Windows.

Come to think of it, I don't use any paid software on any OS outside of games.[/QUOTE]

Ditto!
 
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