XBLA - Braid - 1200pts

[quote name='CheapyD']Can someone tell me how to get the last two puzzle pieces on Cloud Bridge in World 2?
It's making me crazy![/quote]

Found on another forum:
"There are two puzzle pieces, one above the door, and one on a higher platform above the door. There's a jigsaw on the left that you can use to arrange your pieces, etc. Form enough of the picture so there's a platform. You should be able to see a platform in the jigsaw picture. Rotate and move the image such that when you get out of it, a platform is there. You can now jump on the platform to get to the other platform to get the jigsaw piece. For the piece below the door, move the platform so it connects with the one the monster is moving on. Once the monster moves onto the platform that is part of the picture, change it so it falls. Now wait until it moves towards the door and stomp it to grab the piece"

Hope that make sense.
 
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[quote name='Decker']


The bottom line is that this may indeed be a great game, albiet a short one, but I'm pretty confident that they've made a huge mistake pricing it at 50% higher than almost all the other arcade games (especially after the huge hit that GW2 already is less than a week after its 800 point launch). I think this game may not have been a smashing sucess even at 800 points, but will really get hurt with a 1200 point price. I'll be watching 360voice to see what the purchase rate is...[/QUOTE]


The thing is though, will they get less sales at the higher price, sure. But, if your imagining your market is the hardcore gamer, and you're going to be a sleeper hit, it's probably a good move. Think about it, gamers who bought BG&E at $50 loved it. They would have paid $75. You only need 2/3 of your original people to buy it to break even (and then you can assume if you break even that, if you lower it to 800 later, someone will eventually jump at it).

I'm intrigued by this game, but with my current backlog, I'm not buying at 800 or 1200 (at 400, I would, but that's probably unfair to the makers here, who deserve something for their efforts).
 
[quote name='RelentlessRolento']:lol: at people who can't see eye to eye with the hard work of a single developer.[/QUOTE]

You know, it's great that you love this game but the notion that everyone should bow down to this at least partially because "OMG one guy made this!!!!" is as ridiculous as someone recommending that everyone play (for example) MGS4 simply because a large team worked on it and it cost millions of dollars.

I'll be trying to demo later today and I'll admit, the glowing praise and screen shots have me more intrigued than I was a couple days ago but if this game winds up half as good as Portal was (as a similarly quirky game) I'll eat my hat.

EDIT - I should also mention that this would be a no-brainer at 800 and I really don't understand what the "Space Giraffe problem" is.
 
Played the demo...not impressed. Actually, i take that back, the colors and graphics are amazingly well done. But the game play is boring, and the lack of any sort of hints makes it beyond frustrating. The fact that i have to consult the internet to figure out how to get the puzzle pieces to be in the EXACT spot for them to be used...fail. I actually had high hopes when i started the demo up too :( 400 points please.
 
Played the Demo and the game looks nice wonder if you can do more than reverse time? Well game not worth 1200 points ill play the demo again when I get home from work
 
I beat the demo and got all the pieces in about 25 mins. I enjoyed it, but not so much that I'd spend 1200 points on it. I can't imagine playing through more than once, and it only lasts a few hours according to most. I'll def. get it if the price drops anytime.

I spent 800 points on GeoWars 2 and probably played that 10+ hours already. Braid is a good game, but I really look for replay value in XBLA games.

I did really enjoy the music however. :)
 
I really enjoyed the demo. Nice art design, puzzle look like they could get very entertaining, excellent gameplay and level designs, and very much enjoyed the music.

But I can't afford this game right now for how short it is.
 
I think a lot of you are missing the point that this is a PUZZLE game. The whole point of the game is to think and figure out how to get things done. If you need to consult a FAQ for a few pieces here or there, that's cool. But this game is obviously not for those people who are going to sit down with a FAQ and run through the whole game in an hour. If these types of games are not your cup of tea, then yes, this will be a waste of your 1200 points. Then just move on and wait for Bionic Commando or Castle Crashers. But don't complain that "the game is too short" or "the game is bad" just because you don't like puzzlers. Didn't you know that going into it? I'm not a huge FPS fan but i'm not all over the Halo board complaining.....
 
[quote name='EvyLou']I think a lot of you are missing the point that this is a PUZZLE game. The whole point of the game is to think and figure out how to get things done. If you need to consult a FAQ for a few pieces here or there, that's cool. But this game is obviously not for those people who are going to sit down with a FAQ and run through the whole game in an hour. If these types of games are not your cup of tea, then yes, this will be a waste of your 1200 points. Then just move on and wait for Bionic Commando or Castle Crashers. But don't complain that "the game is too short" or "the game is bad" just because you don't like puzzlers. Didn't you know that going into it? I'm not a huge FPS fan but i'm not all over the Halo board complaining.....[/quote]
I like puzzlers but the lack of any sort of guide or hints to get you started killed this game for me.
 
[quote name='SynGamer']I like puzzlers but the lack of any sort of guide or hints to get you started killed this game for me.[/quote]

A to jump
X to rewind

jk. Although having "A" all over the background is a nice reminder.

I'll admit that it was a little puzzling to figure out how to enter the first world, but I just considered that the first puzzle of the game. ;)
 
Tried the demo for a few min last night...not really impressed. Seemed like a Mario knock off with puzzle elements. That was just a first impression of a 10min walkthrough...I'll give it another shot this evening when I'm not falling asleep...maybe I'll enjoy it more, but still doesn't seem like its worth 1200pts.
 
[quote name='Decker']That's the most inane article I may have ever read. Space Giraffe didn't sell poorly because it had a low price, it sold poorly because it was a piece of SHIT. One spin of that demo told any sensible gamer that the game was at least borderline unplayable.[/quote]
I bought space giraffe and Geometry Wars 2. They are both great games, imo. So far, though, I have logged many more hours in space giraffe than geometry wars 2, and I have to say that overall Space Giraffe was worth every penny of $5, while Geometry wars 2 is stretching it at $10.

I know it's trendy to hate Space Giraffe and love Geometry Wars 2, but fuck trendy.

(BTW, I group these games together because most complaints of Space Giraffe I hear, also apply to the over-hyped Geometry Wars)

Even if you accept that incredibly lame argument, it does nothing to explain why the game wasn't priced at 800 points like we all expected. And the argument that if it were priced differently it might end up like Psychonauts or BG&E is absurd. Does anyone think those two games would have been more successful if they had launched at a $75 price point instead of $50? I sure don't.
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It's rather simple really. The developer simply felt his game was worth 1200 points. It's no more complicated than that.

And yes, there is market research that indicates that undervaluing your game, within certain margins, hurts your sales. There is a strong mentality of consumers out there that will avoid things at certain prices out of the programmed belief that you get what you pay for. Many developers believe this now, including the last two I've worked for.
 
I like it...at 800 points I'd definitely get it. I'm going to have to think about it for 1200 though. I still might get it anyway.
 
i really don't want to like this for 1200 points... but, i do. i'm still debating.
i hate to help microsoft and developers rationalize charging more.

edit: oh well, i bought it. i still think it will flop at this price anyhow.
 
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[quote name='thrustbucket']Well you can not buy it, and help developers rationalize switching to PC and/or PSN.[/quote]
Or they could lower their prices...this is all stemming from the fact that MS has never had a XBLA sale to my knowledge. So the prices these games come out at are what we are going to have to pay now and in the future.
 
I bought space giraffe and Geometry Wars 2. They are both great games, imo. So far, though, I have logged many more hours in space giraffe than geometry wars 2, and I have to say that overall Space Giraffe was worth every penny of $5, while Geometry wars 2 is stretching it at $10.
Click to expand...

WHAT? I'm baffled at your poor decision making and taste.

I'm off to try the demo! I've got 1600 pts sitting in my account but I'll most likely wait for BCR next week.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']Well you can not buy it, and help developers rationalize switching to PC and/or PSN.[/quote]


or whatever they want. it's not like MS is keeping him on the platform. It seems down the line as well that this will be on PC as well.

on a side note, yeah, I played more space giraffe than geometry wars. 0 fun in geometry wars.
 
[quote name='jer7583']More like 0 fun in YOU

j/k I like you, rolento. You're cool.[/quote]


:lol:

Yeah, I'm not saying that Geo Wars is a bad game, it's superb, but my tastes really made me not like it. Still the best twin stick shooter IMHO.

Ok, I'm going to go play this now. I'll post impressions later.
 
Well I'm torn between both wanting to encourage developers to make games like Braid, since I do like it, and wanting to discourage MS from pricing games this high.

I have plenty of points really, I've got like 2350 or something in my account that I didn't pay full price for and 4800 on cards here that I got for $15 each from Target last time they were on sale, so it's not really that I'll be paying too much, since 1200 points will have actually cost me around $10 if not less, but buying it only encourages MS to charge more for games....
 
Well I'll try this when this damn xbox comes back.. :wall:
But I'll never decide on buying a game SIMPLY because it's from an indie company or there's a certain design for the game that I find neat.. that's just gay.
 
[quote name='lilboo']But I'll never decide on buying a game SIMPLY because it's from an indie company or there's a certain design for the game that I find neat.. that's just gay.[/quote]

But if it's gay wouldn't that mean you...would do it? Shouldn't you say "that's just straight" or something? I'm so confused...
 
Space Giraffe is a infinitely better name than Geometry Wars 2 but I don't think I ever figured out how to play it properly by the demo.
 
Played the demo last night and really enjoyed the game. The only thing holding me back is the price. Although $15 might not be a huge of difference between $10, I still have trouble paying that amount for downloaded game. If I am going to pay $15 for a game, I want to own a physical copy.

The fact that we don't know if we are going to be able to transfer any of the games we download to a next generation of Xbox is discouraging. Unlike Steam where you can just transfer everything to a new PC. If I knew for a fact that I could transfer these games a new generation Xbox, I would have no problem paying the $15 for any game.
 
When did it become trendy to hate "Space Giraffe"? I bought the game when it came out and really enjoyed it. Haven't played it in quite awhile, but it was worth every cent of the $5 that I paid for it. Really, outside of being a shooter, I really didn't see a ton of similarity in the games. (off topic, but I wanted to comment on it, since Space Giraffe is one of my top 5 XBLA titles).
 
[quote name='lordxixor101']When did it become trendy to hate "Space Giraffe"? I bought the game when it came out and really enjoyed it. Haven't played it in quite awhile, but it was worth every cent of the $5 that I paid for it. Really, outside of being a shooter, I really didn't see a ton of similarity in the games. (off topic, but I wanted to comment on it, since Space Giraffe is one of my top 5 XBLA titles).[/QUOTE]

Just google a little. There is a huge amount of internet hate for SG and it's developer Jeff Minter. I think a lot of it stems from Jeff's very vocal whining about frogger outselling it..

Space Giraffe's biggest problem was it's really shitty tutorial on how to play and what the game was about. The MTV generation booted up the demo, saw a bunch of enemies and colors, didn't get what to do, and didn't buy it, and bash it. The age of nuanced gaming is behind us, I guess. Unfortunately.

Another developer friend of mine and I had a discussion today (he works at a Studio that's put out a few XBLA titles) about why SG was hated and why other psychedelic shooters are beloved (Geometry Wars). We concluded that Geometry Wars is straight forward, easy to understand, and easy to get into. SG isn't, and doesn't hold your hand enough.

SG is in my top five to.
 
Well I bought it....it's worth what I actually paid for it anyway, I just hope it doesn't start a 1200 pt trend.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']
Space Giraffe's biggest problem was it's really shitty tutorial on how to play and what the game was about. The MTV generation booted up the demo, saw a bunch of enemies and colors, didn't get what to do, and didn't buy it, and bash it. The age of nuanced gaming is behind us, I guess. Unfortunately. [/QUOTE]

Part of designing a good game stems from making a game accessible and then ramping up the complexity or difficulty from there.

Look at Super Mario Brothers. You start out as just a guy standing there. If you try to walk left, you run into an invisible wall so you walk right instead. Sure enough, here comes one, slow enemy to deal with. By the end of the first world, the player has dealt with most of the obstacles that the game has to throw at you and the next seven worlds simply elaborate on those initial challenges.

The same basic formula can be found in just about every well-received game in history from World of Warcraft to Halo to Pacman. While making Space Giraffe, Jeff Minter seems to have forgotten that and as such, his game sold like ass. I don't see how it's either trendy or not trendy to dislike Space Giraffe or how the poor reception to SG reflects badly upon any generation of video game fans.

Anyhow, enough talk. I'm off to give the demo of Braid a whirl.
 
I agree that good tutorials (I was in charge of tutorials the last game we shipped) and ramping up play is very important to a successful game. But not having it (throwing you in the deep end too fast) doesn't make it a bad game. Just harder to sell well.
 
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Played through the first rooms and all the different platy styles. I didn't play the demo, but I can say it dosn't give a good idea of the game since every "level" changes play style. Shadows, slow mode, etc... also the shortness really isn't an issue. I can see why it's brought up, but it really has no impact at all on anything since the pacing superb.
 
I just got done with the demo and I'm pretty sure I'm going to grab this when I pick up some MS point cards this weekend. From what I've played, it's awesome.
 
Played the demo, enjoyed it, then bought the game. It's certainly a short adventure, but it does have some replayability.
 
[quote name='RelentlessRolento']justified...

http://kotaku.com/5033567/braid-priced-high-to-prevent-the-space-giraffe-problem

and I know some of you are thinking "I know but shit I still don't want to pay that much." well, fuck you (politley). a man has to eat. I'll be paying for his meal.[/quote]
http://www.joystiq.com/2008/08/06/jonathan-blow-talks-braid-pricing/

It's weird how two different articles can be written on the same comments, as Joystiq points out the comments where he's disappointed at the pricing and not defending it as much as the Kotaku article points out.

[quote name='Jonathan Blow']My feeling was that Microsoft would price the game at 1200 no matter what I said; however, I never pushed them to that point. Late last week, Microsoft and I had a conversation where we talked about a bunch of issues and I agreed on the 1200 point price.

There are good reasons why I picked 1200 instead of 800 (I thought about writing them up today, but I’m not sure it’s really appropriate; I might, though, tonight. We’ll see how I feel about it later.)

The Reader’s Digest version is, I would have been perfectly happy with a launch price of 800 points. At 1200 points I am less happy, but I am okay with it.[/QUOTE]
I'll be giving the demo a shot right now.
 
I liked the demo and it does do a good job of showing some of the different properties that the player will need to deal with (green sparkly stuff stays with you when you reverse time, etc.) but there are plenty of clearance/sale games at $15 that I'd prefer.

The art style is fantastic but I could do without the wordy books that open each world. I don't care that Tim gets nervous around his big, bad parents, I'm here to figure out some puzzles.
 
I played the demo and didnt think it was much better then any flash Mario clone. Oh add in one of those puzzle apps from Myspace and the rewind from countless other titles.

I probably would have considered buying it for 800 pts... 1200 I just dont see. Its no Puzzle Quest for sure.
 
[quote name='musha666']I probably would have considered buying it for 800 pts... 1200 I just dont see. Its no Puzzle Quest for sure.[/quote]

Bah, to each their own I guess. It's fine if you don't like the game, but to say that it's just like tons of other free apps out there, and then say "it's no Puzzle Quest" is ridiculous.......as Puzzle Quest is insanely monotonous, not to mention "just like" every other free Bejeweled clone out there. And yes, I put probably 30 hours into Puzzle Quest and enjoyed it (for the most part).
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']
It's rather simple really. The developer simply felt his game was worth 1200 points. It's no more complicated than that. [/quote]
Well, I'm sure there are developers of non-downloadable games who feel that their product is worth more than $60. You could certainly make the case with GTA IV or Orange Box that there is at least $90 worth of content in either game, but the market rate is the market rate, and barring exclusive bonus collector's material or a required, included peripheral, the ceiling for games is $60 and I don't hear developers crying about that. I'm sure people feel that certain movies like The Dark Knight could very fairly charge a significant premium over other less-desirable movie fare like Space Chimps, but that's not how the pricing of movie tickets go either, is it?
And yes, there is market research that indicates that undervaluing your game, within certain margins, hurts your sales. There is a strong mentality of consumers out there that will avoid things at certain prices out of the programmed belief that you get what you pay for. Many developers believe this now, including the last two I've worked for.
Click to expand...
I can see this, to a point. A game like Bliss Island, for example where the 400 points for a collection of mini-games almost advertised that something was very wrong with the game. But that doesn't address why the game isn't priced at 800 points which has become the standard price point for almost all XBLA games. Some are very robust with tons of content. If a major game like Castlevania SotN, Super Puzzle Fighter HD, Bomberman Live or Aces of the Galaxies (for just a few examples) is priced at 800 points, what's so special about this game that makes it 50% more expensive? I'd get a game like Castle Crashers with a ton of content or a port of a very robust portable game like Puzzle Quest that was still considerably more expensive on other systems, but in this case, I just don't see the logic of the pricing. And certainly don't think that 800 points would be "undervaluing" the game in any way.
 
again, the demo dosn't do justice. the first level is super basic. past that is when time manipulation falls into dopplganging, slowing speed, and time-based positioning.

I still say if you didn't like the demo, you are missing out on alot.
 
[quote name='RelentlessRolento']again, the demo dosn't do justice. the first level is super basic. past that is when time manipulation falls into dopplganging, slowing speed, and time-based positioning.

I still say if you didn't like the demo, you are missing out on alot.[/QUOTE]

You should have played the demo. It lets you do all of that stuff. You get to play up until World 4.

I believe the demo gives you an excellent sampling of the game and you can easily base your purchase off of it.
 
[quote name='RelentlessRolento']again, the demo dosn't do justice. the first level is super basic. past that is when time manipulation falls into dopplganging, slowing speed, and time-based positioning.

I still say if you didn't like the demo, you are missing out on alot.[/quote]
That's the fault of the developer then. I can only go by what the demo was like. You would think developers would put more effort into their demos these days...
 
[quote name='SynGamer']That's the fault of the developer then. I can only go by what the demo was like. You would think developers would put more effort into their demos these days...[/QUOTE]

he admitted that he didn't play the demo, only the full game so he is talking out of his in saying anything about the demo be it not doing the game justice or being a good representation of the full game
 
I just played through the trial, and I really enjoyed it. I think I'll probably pick it up next week since target is having 1600 point cards for 15 dollars, and stock up with enough (probably through price matching) to get castle crashers, GW2, and Bionic Commando.
 
All I can say is that this game. weather you like it or not, is already a large piece in the healthy growth of gaming.

It'll be something that will be more respected in the long run than initially.
 
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