Xbox One - General Discussion Thread

Kylearan said:
I'm a little surprised the PS4 is selling so much better than the One, assuming that's the case. The games libraries are pretty similar at this point, so I guess that extra $100 for Kinect is a real system seller - for the PS4.
Click to expand...
Well also keep in mind that a lot of early adopters are hardcore gamer types. And thus a lot are people that read sites like this and GAF and were put off by all that always on DRM stuff MS tried to implement as well and made a decision back at E3 to go PS4.

Sales may balance out more once the early adopter rush is over and more softcore and casual gamers start buying next gen consoles over the next 2-3 years. The console sales race isn't a sprint, if it was the PS3 would have been a failure. It got off to a terrible start, but ended up neck in neck with 360 in worldwide sales by the end of the generation.

 
blueweltall said:
Yeah I think a lot of people feel the same way about the Xbox one too. There should have been two models. Kinect should have be an option and not forced on you.
Click to expand...
Buying digital or using a disc drive is totally different then removing something deeply integrated in the console itself. And again, if the price was $400 with Kinect forced on you, no one would say anything.
 
dmaul1114 said:
But again, as I've said repeatedly, they could have just put a microphone on the front of the console and still had all that voice command stuff.

You hardly see anyone talking about liking the actual camera for gestures etc. other than some who like it scanning the room and auto signing into profiles. So the camera isn't essential to the OS experience like the voice commands are.

If they'd scrapped the camera and kept it separate like Sony, they probably could have launched at $400 too and alienated fewer people, and still put in a mic to have all the voice command stuff.
Click to expand...
As people have known from this thread, I've backed Kinect and it's capabilities pretty staunchly. But this is honestly the best scenario. I think the camera is going to be even more vital down the road, but putting the voice on the console and the camera optional would have been a benefit to them I think.
 
until they fix dashboard and put things in some form of menu like 360 guide button which might be coming in march it sucks using system with out kinect seeing everything is hidden under menus. 

 
DestroVega said:
Buying digital or using a disc drive is totally different then removing something deeply integrated in the console itself. And again, if the price was $400 with Kinect forced on you, no one would say anything.
Click to expand...
You say that a lot, but it's just not true. There are plenty of people in here, GAF etc. who just hate motion control stuff and won't support it with their wallet.

Plenty of hardcore gamers are like me and couldn't care less about the $100, and just don't want to support anything but traditional games with traditional controls and want to throw money at Sony for putting out a traditional gaming console and doing lots to cater to hardcore gamers. Vs. Nintendo focusing on kids and casuals and MS on mainstream/ dudebro gamers (the COD/Madden crowd) and casuals with the media stuff.

Does that matter in the grand scheme of sales? Maybe not. But maybe as I think hardcore gamers drive the industry more than people think as they buy so many more games than someone like you who probably spends more time on tv, sports, Netflix etc on their X1 than actual gaming. Which is a risky market for a console maker to go after given consoles are sold at a loss and the profit is in software.

As an article we discussed on here months ago suggested, if you get the hardcore on board the softcover and casuals will follow as they buy consoles later into a generation and will pick up whatever their hardcore gamer buddy has so they can play online with them, borrow their games etc. In addition to just being exposed to that console from playing at their buddy's place.

The PS4 vs. X1 sales war will be a great test of that idea given how much Sony is focused on getting hardcore gamers on board and how much MS is doubling down on the COD/Madden crowd and casuals.
 
dmaul1114 said:
You say that a lot, but it's just not true. There are plenty of people in here, GAF etc. who just hate motion control stuff and won't support it with their wallet.

Plenty of hardcore gamers are like me and couldn't care less about the $100, and just don't want to support anything but traditional games with traditional controls and want to throw money at Sony for putting out a traditional gaming console and doing lots to cater to hardcore gamers. Vs. Nintendo focusing on kids and casuals and MS on mainstream/ dudebro gamers (the COD/Madden crowd) and casuals with the media stuff.

Does that matter in the grand scheme of sales? Maybe not. But maybe as I think hardcore gamers drive the industry more than people think as they buy so many more games than someone like you who probably spends more time on tv, sports, Netflix etc on their X1 than actual gaming. Which is a risky market for a console maker to go after given consoles are sold at a loss and the profit is in software.

As an article we discussed on here months ago suggested, if you get the hardcore on board the softcover and casuals will follow as they buy consoles later into a generation and will pick up whatever their hardcore gamer buddy has so they can play online with them, borrow their games etc. In addition to just being exposed to that console from playing at their buddy's place.

The PS4 vs. X1 sales war will be a great test of that idea given how much Sony is focused on getting hardcore gamers on board and how much MS is doubling down on the COD/Madden crowd and casuals.
Click to expand...
The hardcore gaming crowd is highly critical. We are like comic book fans who bitch and moan about superhero movies. Ultimately these movies became summer blockbusters not because of the hardcore fans but on the backs of the general public. No matter how much folks hate the Transformers movies they are huge moneymakers for Hollywood. We bitch and moan about the lack of new IPs but then aren't willing to support them (Remember Me developer just filed for bankruptcy).

IMO, basing your success on hardcore gamers is akin to the Anime Industry. Plenty big and mostly self sufficient but never Hollywood like success. The Wii tapped into the general market and it would be foolish for Sony and M$ not to try to get a foothold in it.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
To clarify, it's not an either/or proposition. Sony is focused a lot on hardcore gamers, but also has all the mainstream stuff like COD--and will have them at higher frame rates and resolutions this gen. They have mainstream first party stuff like Uncharted.

But they focused their machine in games first, have more if the niche indie and Japanese games to draw in the hardcore crowd, rumors if emulation for ps1 and 2 games coming etc.

They're going after both markets, while MS has done little to cater to hardcore gamers who want to play more than shooters, racers and sports games.
 
dmaul1114 said:
To clarify, it's not an either/or proposition. Sony is focused a lot on hardcore gamers, but also has all the mainstream stuff like COD--and will have them at higher frame rates and resolutions this gen. They have mainstream first party stuff like Uncharted.

But they focused their machine in games first, have more if the niche indie and Japanese games to draw in the hardcore crowd, rumors if emulation for ps1 and 2 games coming etc.

They're going after both markets, while MS has done little to cater to hardcore gamers who want to play more than shooters, racers and sports games.
Click to expand...
I wasn't saying that Sony is not focusing on the general public. I was simply pointing out that M$ pretty much put all its eggs into the COD/Madden crowd and general public basket. It is also clear that M$ has shifted gears since the early X1 reveal and are trying to remedy some of their early decisions to appease the hardcore crowd. Furthermore, for the time being it appears that they are focused in revamping their internal development teams which is a major shift for them.

 
Yep. And time will tell how that pays off. Having all your eggs in one or two baskets is risky.

Especially with casual gamers. Nintendo did that with the Wii and struck gold. But that seems likely to have been a one time fluke as most of those folks either got sick of it and quit gaming or just became satisfied with smartphone/tablet/Facebook games and see no need to buy another console.

Maybe VR when it's perfected and cheap can draw in a broader audience I guess.


The COD/Madden crowd is a huge market. But still a limited one as a lot of those types only by a handful of games a year as they dump thousands of hours into their main game. But they pay for live and and buy DLC which helps. So it is an important market nonetheless.

Brt hardcores are still key. They buy more games in a month than the cod/madden crowd buys in a year. And they can influence which platform their cod/madden buddies buy as the early adopt and they play those games too and their buddies will want to play with them.
 
360 was considered the system to play cod and that system sold amazing well.   Not sure how ms does not go after hardcore gamers which most are fans of fps games. Almost every year the best selling games are some form of shooting game 1st person or 3rd person. When i look at causal gamers i see people that play games on smart phones/tablets/facebook games and some random console games. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I think the definition of "hardcore" has also changed a lot over the years, hardcore used to be people who did things like import Japanese games, now it's more defined by people who like FPS a lot which is a hell of a difference.

 
TimboSliceGB said:
360 was considered the system to play cod and that system sold amazing well. Not sure how ms does not go after hardcore gamers which most are fans of fps games. Almost every year the best selling games are some form of shooting game 1st person or 3rd person. When i look at causal gamers i see people that play games on smart phones/tablets/facebook games and some random console games.
Click to expand...
I think your definition of hardcore gamers is off base. Hardcore gamers whomever they might be (presumably most of us here on CAG) have a higher discerning taste in games than simple FPS or sports games. They are the equivalent of people who appreciate good movies or comic books rather than simply following the masses. A hardcore gamer is more likely to play an Atlus game or an RPG rather than the next installation of BF4 or COD.

 
This is what I'm saying, the definition has at least to some changed. Hardcore is kind of a fluid term at the moment, means different things to different people. I spent 20 hours this week playing Persona 4 Golden, am I more or less hardcore than somebody who spent the same or more time playing COD? Who the fuck knows.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Erad30 said:
This is what I'm saying, the definition has at least to some changed. Hardcore is kind of a fluid term at the moment, means different things to different people. I spent 20 hours this week playing Persona 4 Golden, am I more or less hardcore than somebody who spent the same or more time playing COD? Who the fuck knows.
Click to expand...
Of course you are as 1) no self respecting gamer would play COD and 2) Atlus games are the best. Sarcasm aside, P4G is an incredible game which plays amazingly well on the Vita.

 
Senior publishing source confirms new, cheaper Xbox One release for 2014

Microsoft will release a cheaper Xbox One this year, a well-respected source has told VG247, apparently confirming this week’s leaks out of Redmond.

Microsoft has told trusted publishing partners that it will release a new model Xbox One before the end of the year, a senior source has confirmed to VG247.

Although the source was unable to confirm that the system will be disc-less and feature a bluetooth adaptor, the new console will be priced cheaper than the current $499 model.

Upon release, Microsoft would likely drop the price of the current Xbox One model, placing it in the same price point as Sony’s PlayStation 4.

New hardware isn’t the only leak from Microsoft this week, with reports suggesting Halo 2 Anniversary Edition will be released on November 11, complete with a beta for Halo 5.

Although Microsoft isn’t commenting on the rumours, it isn’t taking these leaks lightly – the firm is reportedly looking to get legal on someone’s ass, adding fuel to the fire.
Click to expand...
Maybe that supply chain news suggesting a new xbox one back in November is real?

 
Last edited by a moderator:
People who play CoD and Madden only are more "casual" gamers. Hardcore games are people who enjoy all different kind of games. People that will buy several games, not just the 1 or 2 games every year.

 
Deader2818 said:
People who play CoD and Madden only are more "casual" gamers. Hardcore games are people who enjoy all different kind of games. People that will buy several games, not just the 1 or 2 games every year.
Click to expand...
That's how I'd define it as well.

Hardcore gamer is someone who buys and plays a lot of games in a lot of different genres. It's the gaming equivalent of a movie buff. Someone who just goes and sees (or rents) the big blockbuster films isn't a movie buff. A movie buff sees those, plus the award nominees and foreign films and indie films etc.

Someone who just plays a ton of COD or WoW or Madden is just a serious/hardcore player of those games, not a hardcore gamer overall.

I like the distinction that article I mentioned earlier made.

Hardcore=the above.

Softcore=the CoD/madden type who may game a lot, but have limited genre interests and don't buy nearly as many games

Casuals=people playing facebook/phone games, maybe Wii sports and some casual stuff on a console if their spouse or kids have one etc.\

Softcores are the biggest chunk of the market, but the article argued that in terms of what console they buy they tend to follow what the hardcore buy. The hardcore early adopt, the softcore play next gen games first at their hardcore friends' places and are more likely to buy whatever that friend is gaming most on so they can play online with them, borrow games etc.

Last gen it wasn't just the softcore that helped MS when in the US. It was that Sony alienated the hardcore early adopters with the stupid high price as a result of a non-gaming feature (bluray movie playback), bad PR from comments that people would work a second job to afford one and so on. They eventually got back neck in neck by catering more to hardcore gamers, putting out a wide variety of exclusives, launching PS+ etc.

This time it's gone the other way as MS pissed off hardcore gamers with the DRM stuff, and being $100 more due to having a non-gaming feature (Kinect) forced in. Well, I guess it is used in games, but not the type of games hardcore gamers play so still a wasted expense for them. Especially when the competition is $100 less, more powerful and running games at higher FPS and resolutions (and hardcore gamers care a lot more about that stuff than softcores) and doing more to cater to them directly.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
i never said anything about hardcore gamers only being fans of cod/madden. i would never classify someone that plays one game everytime they play a game a all around gamer. when it comes to these terms it's diff who ever you talk to. The reason why most people prefer xbox for fps games over other systems is the controller and the mics and all that. 3/4 of games that come out this day and age are mostly shooter games of some kind when it comes to xbox/playstation systems. 

 
kill3r7 said:
Of course you are as 1) no self respecting gamer would play COD and 2) Atlus games are the best. Sarcasm aside, P4G is an incredible game which plays amazingly well on the Vita.
Click to expand...
just because you don't like cod don't bash people that enjoy it lol i hate rpg/jrpg games you don't see me bashing people that like those.

everyone has their own taste in games and in the end we are all gamers don't matter if you play games on smartphones/tablets home systems / pc.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
TimboSliceGB said:
just because you don't like cod don't bash people that enjoy it lol i hate rpg/jrpg games you don't see me bashing people that like those.

everyone has their own taste in games and in the end we are all gamers don't matter if you play games on smartphones/tablets home systems / pc.
Click to expand...
My comment went right over your head. Reread what I wrote and you'll see that I was being sarcastic. I enjoy COD just fine as do most of my friends. It's okay to like all games which was the point of my comment.

 
You know full well the conversation would be the same if XB1 launched at $399 also. Sure you'd get a camera included for same price, but everyone would be saying "They should have made the Kinect separate so that the base unit could be cheaper and beat PS4 price, no one wants Kinect anyway."

Not to mention if XB1 was 400, PS4 may have gone down to 350 just to compete, MS conference with price announcement came first.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Kazaganthi said:
You know full well the conversation would be the same if XB1 launched at $399 also. Sure you'd get a camera included for same price, but everyone would be saying "They should have made the Kinect separate so that the base unit could be cheaper and beat PS4 price, no one wants Kinect anyway."

Not to mention if XB1 was 400, PS4 may have gone down to 350 just to compete, MS conference with price announcement came first.
Click to expand...
It cracks me up that people really think Sony didn't know what they were going to price their console out till that morning at E3 when Microsoft said how much their system was going to be.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Deader2818 said:
It cracks me up that people really think Sony didn't know what they were going to price their console out till that morning at E3 when Microsoft said how much their system was going to be.
Click to expand...
Of course they knew their price but not MS's. Listen/watch the Giant Bomb interview with Adam Boyles, I think it was, and paraphrase "So glad they said $500 as we couldn't afford to go down to $350."

 
Deader2818 said:
People who play CoD and Madden only are more "casual" gamers. Hardcore games are people who enjoy all different kind of games. People that will buy several games, not just the 1 or 2 games every year.
Click to expand...
Bingo. It's all about time. If gaming is your real only hobby you're hardcore. Myself, I uses to buy COD and NHL every year and a random game here or there I never finished. I'm definitely casual. But I also workout almost every day, watch about 14 tv shows that are on at various times, try to read magazines and comics for a couple hours on a weekend, see 2-4 movies per month, am really into music more than anything and spend time mixing different stuff, take my wife to dinner every other week. And oh, I have a job that takes up 40-45 hours a week.

In addition to life things I need to do to and around my house.

With all those interests flying around, I'll never be a hardcore gamer. I'm playing quite a bit more with Xbox One and am going to actually finish some games this time around. But long story short, I think if gaming is your priority interest and you spend heavy amounts of your free time on it, that pretty much defines it.

Quite honestly, I'd love to be an expert at any one of these things but I enjoy them all. So I basically have to be a casual fan of all of it.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Deader2818 said:
It cracks me up that people really think Sony didn't know what they were going to price their console out till that morning at E3 when Microsoft said how much their system was going to be.
Click to expand...
Actually, its not that Sony didn't know, its that they changed it at the very last minute. Sony had an almost 100% identical plan to MS's and they decided to change it after they saw the terrible reception MS got at the XBox One unveiling. Taking the camera out, and thus dropping the price of the console, was one of the key changes they made and it was made very shortly before Sony's presentation. In all honesty, this was one of the key reasons why I decided to go with Xbox One at luanch instead of the PS4.

 
Uh according to who? There was never any evidence of that, the only thing they changed last minute was dropping the camera from the sku to lower the price, that they pretty much said. There was never anything saying that they had the same plan as MS except a few people saying it on websites with no sources to back it up.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Righteous Nixon said:
Actually, its not that Sony didn't know, its that they changed it at the very last minute. Sony had an almost 100% identical plan to MS's and they decided to change it after they saw the terrible reception MS got at the XBox One unveiling. Taking the camera out, and thus dropping the price of the console, was one of the key changes they made and it was made very shortly before Sony's presentation. In all honesty, this was one of the key reasons why I decided to go with Xbox One at luanch instead of the PS4.
Click to expand...
First of all no. There is no proof of that at all. Second, if you believe that's true you went with xbox over PlayStation at launch because Sony listened to their customers? Lol
 
Do I think at some point did Sony have some kind if drm In thier system yes was it last minute change no. In my mind ms was the sucker that fed into publishers that wanted drm in place and in end Sony Turned them down. When it comes to cam no doudt they planned on packing that in with controllers having built in light for it, but to cut cost they removed it.
 
I can agree that they were going to pack the camera in at first and then took it out to bring the price down. The whole "Sony was going to do DRM up till they saw the backlash Microsoft got at E3 then changed that a few hours later" is just pure BS.

 
Deader2818 said:
I can agree that they were going to pack the camera in at first and then took it out to bring the price down. The whole "Sony was going to do DRM up till they saw the backlash Microsoft got at E3 then changed that a few hours later" is just pure BS.
Click to expand...
Yeah, Microsoft didn't announced or mentioned that the Xbox One would have DRM at E3 at all. They actually release a press announcement days before E3 about the plan DRM and how it was going to work well ahead of their own E3 press conference. This was done so they could just focused on the games and features of the Xbox one at E3. I still have last year E3 on my DVR. So Sony didn't removed DRM from the PS4 at the last minute nor was their power pointslide thrown in at the last minute like some suggested that they did.

Everybody knew about the Xbox One DRM before E3, also does it really matter now since there is no DRM on both system at all.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Deader2818 said:
Actually, the DRM wasnt event confirmed til after they made their presentation. Thats when all hell broke loose for them.
Click to expand...
No, the DRM was some what confirmed by Microsoft on May 21st 2013 at the Xbox One official unveiling event. There was even leak DRM reports of it even before the unveiling event.

Later on, days before the June 10, 2013 E3, Microsoft sent out a press release confirming and providing more info about the Xbox one DRM.

Here is an article from Kotaku about the event that day:

http://kotaku.com/that-xbox-one-reveal-sure-was-a-disaster-huh-509192266

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I know things were rumored before but none of it was confirmed like you said till after their presentation at E3. Everyone was waiting to see if they would talk about DRM and always on during the event but they never talked about it. After it was over is when they confirmed what people feared.

 
Deader2818 said:
I know things were rumored before but none of it was confirmed like you said till after their presentation at E3. Everyone was waiting to see if they would talk about DRM and always on during the event but they never talked about it. After it was over is when they confirmed what people feared.
Click to expand...
You know why they didn't talk about the DRM and always on feature at E3? Because they confirmed it days before the E3 presentation with a press release. This is what I have been trying to get across with several of my post:

From June 6, 2013

http://kotaku.com/the-xbox-one-just-had-a-very-bad-day-511766497

http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2013/06/xbox-one-used-games/

Microsoft E3 presentation was on June 10, 2013.

I think I am done discussing about this because just like I mentioned it before both system didn't have any DRM at the end, so it doesn't really matter now.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
http://www.giantbomb.com/articles/microsoft-sorta-addresses-big-xbox-one-questions-u/1100-4646/

The DRM stuff definitely started right after the Xbox One unveiling event ended on May 21, as the status of the online requirements and used game situation were already coming to light. As you might recall, they completely screwed up whatever the plan was for talking about that stuff, so there were lots of conflicting reports about that stuff from various sites.

http://www.giantbomb.com/articles/microsoft-digs-bigger-hole-over-used-games/1100-4647/

Then they sent Major Nelson to face the firing squad on May 24 with a statement that says nothing but "you guys are wrong, but we won't tell you how wrong you are until a later date."

http://www.giantbomb.com/articles/microsoft-tries-to-clear-up-xbox-one-s-new-policie/1100-4658/

They finally started giving details on the DRM nearly two-and-a-half weeks after the reveal on June 6, which was just before E3.

 
Weird, for some reason I remember it happening right after their presentation. Maybe it threw me off because everyone was doing presentations and what not before E3. A lot of information was coming out and was a blur.

Sorry about that.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I did not say Sony changed it at last sec. From insider reports early last year indicated drm next gen was possible happing. Like I said publishers were main push and they got ms to sucker into their plan and got ms in the deep. I still think they were trying to get Sony to do it but got turned down. Since that ms backlash most season passes are gone.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
TimboSliceGB said:
I did not say Sony changed it at last sec. From insider reports early last year indicated drm next gen was possible happing. Like I said publishers were main push and they got ms to sucker into their plan and got ms in the deep. I still think they were trying to get Sony to do it but got turned down. Since that ms backlash most season passes are gone.
Click to expand...
I assume you mean online passes?

 
That's the thing I could not understand all backlash for ms when you know it was publishers wanting it. Ms would have got zero benefit from doing it maybe more digital game sales but nothing else. If people don't buy x1 because of drm thing then they should not buy any games.
 
Just think, if this guy had kept his mouth shut a couple more months he wouldn't have lost his job.

http://www.polygon.com/2013/11/6/5075106/adam-orth-xbox-one-gdc-next

TimboSliceGB said:
That's the thing I could not understand all backlash for ms when you know it was publishers wanting it. Ms would have got zero benefit from doing it maybe more digital game sales but nothing else. If people don't buy x1 because of drm thing then they should not buy any games.
Click to expand...
WUT? Nonsense. You simply don't buy the platform that has policies you dislike.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Deader2818 said:
Weird, for some reason I remember it happening right after their presentation. Maybe it threw me off because everyone was doing presentations and what not before E3. A lot of information was coming out and was a blur.

Sorry about that.
Click to expand...
No it's cool we were just discussing about the issue and it was done civilly, no harm done. It is actually nice to have a discussion and not getting hate from others because they can't deal with it.

And I wasn't really targeting you Timbo when I made my first statement about the PS4 DRM. I just read some post several months ago by different members who thought Sony changed their DRM policy at the last moment based on the quality of their power point slide.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
TimboSliceGB said:
That's the thing I could not understand all backlash for ms when you know it was publishers wanting it. Ms would have got zero benefit from doing it maybe more digital game sales but nothing else. If people don't buy x1 because of drm thing then they should not buy any games.
Click to expand...
Honestly, it doesn't matter if the publishers wanted it or not, if they just said no, we don't want to do this do you really think they just won't publish for the Xbox?

As always, its about ownership, if you but something, you should have the right to do with it as you please. Just because people wouldn't want Microsoft to have control over what they buy doesnt mean they shouldnt buy games at all, lol.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
fve773i.jpg


Box art leak from some spanish retailer.

 
You must log in or register to reply here.
bread's done
Back
Top