Xbox One on the way. DRM removed, more details to come.

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only reason why sony had no bad pr after they conf is because they did not allow interviews like microsoft did. so many things has happend since ps4 launch that has me thinking sony is hiding something. they could keep used game stuff under lock till system is out.
 
[quote name='TimboSliceGB']only reason why sony had no bad pr after they conf is because they did not allow interviews like microsoft did. so many things has happend since ps4 launch that has me thinking sony is hiding something. they could keep used game stuff under lock till system is out.[/QUOTE]

They've said pretty clearly in interviews that restricting used games would be left up to publishers.

I think the only thing they've been wishy washy on is whether they'll restrict them for the first party games they publish.

And that's not the only reason they didn't get negative PR--they didn't show a bunch of TV stuff, they didn't require an always on camera unit for the console to work etc. They focused on gaming and sharing gaming stuff on social media. MS showed hardly any gaming stuff which really irked gamers.
 
in my mind people are overreacting on rumors. only thing confermed by microsoft them selfs is semi always online. no info has come from microsoft them self on used games other then they support people that trade in and buy used games.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']They've said pretty clearly in interviews that restricting used games would be left up to publishers.

I think the only thing they've been wishy washy on is whether they'll restrict them for the first party games they publish.[/QUOTE]

who to saying that microsoft is not doing that same thing allowing publishers decided on the used games what they want done. people from the start was thinking microsoft was forcing it.
 
I'd agree that people are overreacting.

But it's still huge negative PR shit storm for MS to deal with, and will definitely hurt their sales if they aren't able to effectively reverse this tide at E3.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']They've said pretty clearly in interviews that restricting used games would be left up to publishers.

I think the only thing they've been wishy washy on is whether they'll restrict them for the first party games they publish.

And that's not the only reason they didn't get negative PR--they didn't show a bunch of TV stuff, they didn't require an always on camera unit for the console to work etc. They focused on gaming and sharing gaming stuff on social media. MS showed hardly any gaming stuff which really irked gamers.[/QUOTE]

so gamers care about sharing stuff on social media? i freaking hate when people post game share stuff on my fb and twitter i don't give a junk about that stuff. you know ps4 will be pushing entertainment at e3 don't tell me they will not. sony e3 last year talked about it a ton.
 
sadly the gaming industry is changing an not for the better in my mind. this day and age game companys are turning their focus to casual gamers and familys and losing eye on hardcore gamers. They are seeing how much facebook games and ipad games are growing and they want some of that market. they see entertainment and kinenct/move a way to do it. the thing is also that when microsoft/sony does stuff like tv and what not they get non stop bashed but when nintendo does it along with their gimmick garbage it's like omg sooooo coool man they know how to make a system.
 
[quote name='TimboSliceGB']so gamers care about sharing stuff on social media? i freaking hate when people post game share stuff on my fb and twitter i don't give a junk about that stuff. you know ps4 will be pushing entertainment at e3 don't tell me they will not. sony e3 last year talked about it a ton.[/QUOTE]

No. But at least Sony focused on the PS4 as a gaming machine, and people can easily not use the social media stuff if they don't like it.

Where as MS spent 3/4ths of their announcement on non-gaming stuff with showing the TV stuff and how it could be the hub for your whole home theater system etc. Stuff a lot of gamers don't care about, and caused concern that MS is really only focused on casual gamers. Especially when combined with them just showing EA sports games and CoD for the little the did discuss games.


[quote name='TimboSliceGB']sadly the gaming industry is changing an not for the better in my mind. this day and age game companys are turning their focus to casual gamers and familys and losing eye on hardcore gamers.[/QUOTE]

Definitely. And as above, MS's announcement conference was much more of a red flag in that regard than was Sony's with all the non-gaming stuff they focused on for the majority of it.
 
nintendo fans= microsoft copy us with all the tv stuff we were first ones to do it. non nintendo fans = um the stuff wii u does has been possible with a cable box for over 10 years now.
 
^ Dude...

if MS isn't debunking these rumors then there is cause to worry. They wouldn't let these bad press and "rumors" to continue if they were just not true.
 
Yep. Best case is they were truly surprised by the backlash and are scrambling with how to change/tweak things/back peddle to undo the harm done.

Worst case is they don't give a shit and it's all true and they thing enough people won't care and will still by the Xbox 1 to keep them on top in the US.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']Yep. Best case is they were truly surprised by the backlash and are scrambling with how to change/tweak things/back peddle to undo the harm done.

Worst case is they don't give a shit and it's all true and they thing enough people won't care and will still by the Xbox 1 to keep them on top in the US.[/QUOTE]

They've had 3 months to look at the outrage building and apparently didn't do anything. What makes people think they're going to change tactics in the next 3 weeks?

Microsoft sees, and has always seen the Xbox brand as a means to an end, Gamers to TV. To them, this is the box Bill Gates talked about when Microsoft introduced the original Xbox. This is their pipe dream, their ability to control every single piece of content you view, their ability to micro-manage you and watch/listen to you while you do whatever in front of their box.

Xbone is 100% what EA and other super-publishers are about now, boom or bust, no in-between, particularly EA. Everyone with half a brain knew that when they dropped their online passes a week before this past Tuesday that those horrible rumors we've been hearing for months had truth to them, and it shows they hate their consumers, and want gaming to have no legacy like books, movies or TV. They want your games to be completely disposable.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']Yep. Best case is they were truly surprised by the backlash and are scrambling with how to change/tweak things/back peddle to undo the harm done.

Worst case is they don't give a shit and it's all true and they thing enough people won't care and will still by the Xbox 1 to keep them on top in the US.[/QUOTE]

Most likely they'll keep as much as they think they can get away with. The people running MS aren't idiots and they know they need early adopters. They can push for the casual market all they want but those people aren't going to buy a $500 console.
 
[quote name='KingBroly']They've had 3 months to look at the outrage building and apparently didn't do anything. What makes people think they're going to change tactics in the next 3 weeks?
[/quote]

Very true. And I don't think it's likely they'll backpedal, and more likely that my worst case scenario in my prior post is reality.

Microsoft sees, and has always seen the Xbox brand as a means to an end, Gamers to TV. To them, this is the box Bill Gates talked about when Microsoft introduced the original Xbox. This is their pipe dream, their ability to control every single piece of content you view, their ability to micro-manage you and watch/listen to you while you do whatever in front of their box.
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Yep. And honestly, if they or someone else can get it right I'm not opposed to it. It would simplify my home theater immensely if I could get all my entertainment from one box. I'm not as opposed to DRM as many as I'm not a collector type, find that I'm seldom replaying games, rewatching movies/tv shows or re-reading books these days. So for me, digital licenses are fine, and moving to some type of purely subscription based streaming/cloud services for entertainment makes a lot of sense.

I don't have much confidence in MS being able to pull it off though.

Xbone is 100% what EA and other super-publishers are about now, boom or bust, no in-between, particularly EA. Everyone with half a brain knew that when they dropped their online passes a week before this past Tuesday that those horrible rumors we've been hearing for months had truth to them, and it shows they hate their consumers, and want gaming to have no legacy like books, movies or TV. They want your games to be completely disposable.
Click to expand...

Yep.

And the logical conclusion is that they dropped online passes because Sony's doing the same (or at least allowing publishers to do so) and that they have no qualms telling Nintendo to fuck off and just not putting their games on Wii U since it's selling like shit anyway.


[quote name='Blaster man']Most likely they'll keep as much as they think they can get away with. The people running MS aren't idiots and they know they need early adopters. They can push for the casual market all they want but those people aren't going to buy a $500 console.[/QUOTE]

It's really dependent on what Sony is doing. If they're putting the the same restrictions in place, or allowing publishers to, then they can get away with it all as there's really no realistic alternatives for the average gamer (i.e. not the hard cores on sites like this). No one gives a shit about Nintendo other than nostalgic fans (like me--but I won't by a Wii U, my 3DS is good for my Mario et al. fix). PC gaming will never bounce back as most people don't even want desktops anymore and have moved onto just having laptops and or tablets at home with desktop PCs largely relegated to offices.
 
[quote name='KingBroly']They've had 3 months to look at the outrage building and apparently didn't do anything. What makes people think they're going to change tactics in the next 3 weeks?

Microsoft sees, and has always seen the Xbox brand as a means to an end, Gamers to TV. To them, this is the box Bill Gates talked about when Microsoft introduced the original Xbox. This is their pipe dream, their ability to control every single piece of content you view, their ability to micro-manage you and watch/listen to you while you do whatever in front of their box.

Xbone is 100% what EA and other super-publishers are about now, boom or bust, no in-between, particularly EA. Everyone with half a brain knew that when they dropped their online passes a week before this past Tuesday that those horrible rumors we've been hearing for months had truth to them, and it shows they hate their consumers, and want gaming to have no legacy like books, movies or TV. They want your games to be completely disposable.[/QUOTE]
Well said.
 
the thing is how do we not know it was even worse then it is now? in my mind it would be best for microsoft to release a full Q and A thing that answers all these issues before e3. If that don't happen during e3 all people will be thinking about is all the unanswered question and NOT the games they will show.
 
i just never have been a person to get overworked over rumors. microsoft really has only said like two things is true nothing else. video game industry is one of those industrys that have so many rumors that never come true been that way since i was a kid in 80's. i think what makes me more cautious about these rumors is that not one article is the same when it breaks news. heck everyone in microsoft seem to be saying complete dif things.
 
[quote name='giantqtipz']Guys just to confirm.

No used fees right?[/QUOTE]


Depends where you buy the used game from. If you were to buy it from a Microsoft approved reseller there will be no used fee (it would included in the cost of the game purchase)

If you buy it from a 3rd party (eBay, Craigslist, friend, etc) you will have to pay a fee in order to activate it. ( If you both wish to have a playable copy)


Rumor is that there is no "fee" for giving/selling/stealing a disc in a non-sanctioned fashion.
I.E. You give the disc to a friend he can install and play the game forever. However you as the original owner cannot. Once he activates the disc, it will de-authorized said game from your gamertag. if you wanted to play from the HDD you would have to pay a "fee" in order to obtain your own valid license.

People hear fee and assume it will be sub-twenty. But judging from the interviews it will actually be closer to MSRP, in all likelihood it will be MSRP.

This ensures Microsoft/Publishers/whoever gets their cut.

Again this is not 100% accurate as MS has been a bit sketchy about the details. However it seems to most logical way for used games to work out. I'm basing it on interviews with MS reps and not outlandish rumors with no credible sources.
 
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The used game thing doesn't affect me, because I only buy really good games which have good MP. They are now rarely made and usually have a $20 credit for preordering.

Most of my friends who would complain do so either because they are achievement whores or they have Gamefly. If fees were implemented, I could see problems with rentals already.

But in any case I'm pretty sure there is no used game fee. Just that only one person may have the game installed at once, which is why they require you to connect to the internet once a day. You have disc #334. You install it. You connect on day 1, noone else installed it, your game plays. Then you give disc #334 to your friend. He installs it. On day 2, you connect, it says someone else installed #334, and you must insert disc to get the rights again to play it.

They are specifically saying that sharing between people in the same house should be free, so that's why the above model makes sense.

Is this silly as hell? Yes. But it allows them to install games to hdd without you ever having to touch the disc again, unless someone else uses your disc. As of right now you must have the disc in the tray to play an installed game. Obviously a lot of people would prefer that option and stay offline. But in general, requiring people to get up and put a disc in is not intuitive. It's not next gen. They want this to be a seamless, sit on the couch, do not move experience. You watch netflix, someone invites you to a game, and you INSTANTLY enter their game. That's next gen and what the Xbox One is aiming for. They don't care about the side effect DRM.

And it actually makes the X1 competitive with PC. PC can't instantly do everything for you, switching between TV, Netflix, and game invites. With some tech knowledge I'm sure you guys could manage something, but the X1 requires no knowledge or work to make it work. Sit on couch, turn on with controller, you are signed in. You press 1 button, and the console does the work for you.

If I wanted to play offline games I'd play on my PC. But whatever, that's another story. A large market share plays games offline on their Xbox, and many only play single player in some of the best MP games available.
 
[quote name='kirby145']The used game thing doesn't affect me, because I only buy really good games which have good MP. They are now rarely made and usually have a $20 credit for preordering.

Most of my friends who would complain do so either because they are achievement whores or they have Gamefly. If fees were implemented, I could see problems with rentals already.

But in any case I'm pretty sure there is no used game fee. Just that only one person may have the game installed at once, which is why they require you to connect to the internet once a day. You have disc #334. You install it. You connect on day 1, noone else installed it, your game plays. Then you give disc #334 to your friend. He installs it. On day 2, you connect, it says someone else installed #334, and you must insert disc to get the rights again to play it.

They are specifically saying that sharing between people in the same house should be free, so that's why the above model makes sense.

Is this silly as hell? Yes. But it allows them to install games to hdd without you ever having to touch the disc again, unless someone else uses your disc. As of right now you must have the disc in the tray to play an installed game. Obviously a lot of people would prefer that option and stay offline. But in general, requiring people to get up and put a disc in is not intuitive. It's not next gen. They want this to be a seamless, sit on the couch, do not move experience. You watch netflix, someone invites you to a game, and you INSTANTLY enter their game. That's next gen and what the Xbox One is aiming for. They don't care about the side effect DRM.

If I wanted to play offline games I'd play on my PC. But whatever, that's another story. The market majority actually plays games offline on their Xbox. And I have no idea why.[/QUOTE]

mp on't make or break a game that's why. im a person that enjoys the single player experience more then mp. I guess that comes from being a gamer way before their was even internet. I could see younger people that has always had mp to be like well i like mp more. I hate games that focus more on mp then single player.
 
[quote name='TimboSliceGB']mp on't make or break a game that's why. im a person that enjoys the single player experience more then mp. I guess that comes from being a gamer way before their was even internet. I could see younger people that has always had mp to be like well i like mp more. I hate games that focus more on mp then single player.[/QUOTE]Yes depends a lot on what you grew up with. Anyone who likes fighters would probably never be in it for the SP. Shooters are the same now, they have garbage SP, really only made playable by the coop additions.

Edit: And I will play SP for a few hours if there is Gamerscore involved.
 
[quote name='TimboSliceGB']the thing is how do we not know it was even worse then it is now? in my mind it would be best for microsoft to release a full Q and A thing that answers all these issues before e3. If that don't happen during e3 all people will be thinking about is all the unanswered question and NOT the games they will show.[/QUOTE]

That's exactly why all this negative PR is so bad for MS.

They're behind the eight ball now and will have a hard time getting the focus back on the gaming with all the discussion of the used game restrictions, DRM, forced connect, need for internet authentication of games and only really focusing on TV stuff etc.

Instead of just being able to showcase games, they'll probably get hammered about all that stuff in E3 interviews as it's unlikely they'll be able to dispell it all by then as it seems like they don't internally know how to proceed with all this crap after getting this huge backlash.
 
[quote name='kirby145']The used game thing doesn't affect me, because I only buy really good games which have good MP. They are now rarely made and usually have a $20 credit for preordering.

Most of my friends who would complain do so either because they are achievement whores or they have Gamefly. If fees were implemented, I could see problems with rentals already.

But in any case I'm pretty sure there is no used game fee. Just that only one person may have the game installed at once, which is why they require you to connect to the internet once a day. You have disc #334. You install it. You connect on day 1, noone else installed it, your game plays. Then you give disc #334 to your friend. He installs it. On day 2, you connect, it says someone else installed #334, and you must insert disc to get the rights again to play it.

They are specifically saying that sharing between people in the same house should be free, so that's why the above model makes sense.

Is this silly as hell? Yes. But it allows them to install games to hdd without you ever having to touch the disc again, unless someone else uses your disc. As of right now you must have the disc in the tray to play an installed game. Obviously a lot of people would prefer that option and stay offline. But in general, requiring people to get up and put a disc in is not intuitive. It's not next gen. They want this to be a seamless, sit on the couch, do not move experience. You watch netflix, someone invites you to a game, and you INSTANTLY enter their game. That's next gen and what the Xbox One is aiming for. They don't care about the side effect DRM.

And it actually makes the X1 competitive with PC. PC can't instantly do everything for you, switching between TV, Netflix, and game invites. With some tech knowledge I'm sure you guys could manage something, but the X1 requires no knowledge or work to make it work. Sit on couch, turn on with controller, you are signed in. You press 1 button, and the console does the work for you.

If I wanted to play offline games I'd play on my PC. But whatever, that's another story. A large market share plays games offline on their Xbox, and many only play single player in some of the best MP games available.[/QUOTE]

This would be a reasonable solution and it is already similar to what they have in place for Xbox 360. And it makes sense when you think about instant switching between media.
 
Let's look at what had to happen to make the Xbox One. Your a fly on the wall of a board meeting.......and you hear something to the effect of:

Hey guys, I got an idea.

Let's make a new console, with bassackwards features that are so convoluted that it enrages and/or confuses everyone, Whose main purpose, which will bewilder everyone under 30 as their generations run in droves from the cable companies to internet TV, is to watch Price is Right and serves as a supplement to a cable box someone must rent in order to gain it's potential, but of course, only with select providers so we can alienate a huge customer base. It will also be watching your every move, listening to your every whisper when your near, like the homicidal computer on 2001: A Space Odyssey. We will made it look like the black monolith in the same movie, but on its side just to remind everyone that it will kill them in jealous "Rage". We will also make it force connect to the internet every 24 hours, so when if "the angry hackers" show up it will make the PSN outage a few years ago look like a simple ordeal and misunderstanding.

Let's also make it underpowered out of the box, and if developers want full potential, they must write some complicated code that draws in a different set of shadows, textures, and light, only when a sufficient internet connection is detected, burning through any bandwidth limits they might have, but of course, one of our department heads will go around stating this, and that it will be up to the developers to figure out just how to pull it off.

HEY JIM! THATS A GREAT IDEA!

Funny-gif-man-jump-out-the-window.gif
 
[quote name='6er']Let's look at what had to happen to make the Xbox One. Your a fly on the wall of a board meeting.......and you hear something to the effect of:

Hey guys, I got an idea.

Let's make a new console, with bassackwards features that are so convoluted that it enrages and/or confuses everyone, Whose main purpose, which will bewilder everyone under 30 as their generations run in droves from the cable companies to internet TV, is to watch Price is Right and serves as a supplement to a cable box someone must rent in order to gain it's potential, but of course, only with select providers so we can alienate a huge customer base. It will also be watching your every move, listening to your every whisper when your near, like the homicidal computer on 2001: A Space Odyssey. We will made it look like the black monolith in the same movie, but on its side just to remind everyone that it will kill them in jealous "Rage". We will also make it force connect to the internet every 24 hours, so when if "the angry hackers" show up it will make the PSN outage a few years ago look like a simple ordeal and misunderstanding.

Let's also make it underpowered out of the box, and if developers want full potential, they must write some complicated code that draws in a different set of shadows, textures, and light, only when a sufficient internet connection is detected, burning through any bandwidth limits they might have, but of course, one of our department heads will go around stating this, and that it will be up to the developers to figure out just how to pull it off.

HEY JIM! THATS A GREAT IDEA!

Funny-gif-man-jump-out-the-window.gif
[/QUOTE]

where o i start with this one lol. The tv thing should work with every cable box and not just certain providers seeing it's hdmi in and out. i have had 3 cable companys and all work with my home theater system that has the same guide thing x1 offers. 2. x1 is not underpowere if you compare it to ps4 yes the cpu is a bit faster on ps4 but with that said cpu is not the biggst thing when it comes to games theyy are pretty much equal. just unhook kinect when system is not on boom mic and cam is off.
 
[quote name='TimboSliceGB']where o i start with this one lol. The tv thing should work with every cable box and not just certain providers seeing it's hdmi in and out. i have had 3 cable companys and all work with my home theater system that has the same guide thing x1 offers. 2. x1 is not underpowere if you compare it to ps4 yes the cpu is a bit faster on ps4 but with that said cpu is not the biggst thing when it comes to games theyy are pretty much equal. just unhook kinect when system is not on boom mic and cam is off.[/QUOTE]

Ram. you forgot ram. and no, the PS4 is "a bit faster" if you consider 34% more to be "a bit faster". we are talking the SAME processor....not even similar architecture, the SAME architecture design. The PS4's DDR5 will boost framerates alone if everything else was the same. And the issue with the Ram is the One has a LOT of crap going on in the background. Open a bunch of programs in the background of your PC or phone and check your RAM usage before and after. The One is designed to keep that stuff in the forefront for instant switching, meaning its also always using it. Granted they make have some great code to do a fast loading hibernation type thing, but at the speed it was switching, I seriously doubt its writing to disk(it it does, what they showed us was a lie unless it comes with a 500GB SSD.....LOL) It can't use all that RAM if its already being used. And remember also, its using a stripped down WINDOWS KERNAL.....as in I just had 3 security updates to download because my PC has been off for 3 days WINDOWS KERNAL. We could be looking at an awful PS3 style update structure unless its....gasp....always on. (more like: a middle of the night self update.....which plays back into everyone's HAL fears "DAAAAAVE....I'm done updating.....PLAY ME DAAAAVE"
)

And I'm talking about cable providers for stuff like on demand. if it cant access your on demand and PPV cable stuff, it loses a lot of functionality right there. The providers each use their own system and network and code, which is why you can't access on demand section with you use a Cable CARD instead of a Box. So you would have to them start using the box itself again to access the OD stuff if your provider isnt fully supported.

I was really hoping to see something strong show up. Competition is good for the consumer. I was wanting to see What I was going to be rushing to get to play Forza 5 on. I was a HUGE GT fanboy until Forza 4 finally won me over. Forza series evolves a CRAPLOAD faster than GT does. But after that press conference....

34% is roughly to the overall difference between a nVidia 660Ti and a 680 in several areas
 
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first party games might look better on ps4 then say first party x1's but when it comes to 3rd party they will look pretty much the same seeing companys use the same fram rate on each system. heck this gen ps3 was wayyy more powerful then 360 but alot of times games played better on 360.
 
ddr 5 really only shows impact over ddr 3 when tons of things are going on at once and even then a naked eye will not see the dif. if you look side by side list that we posted many times here you would see only thing ps4 does better that in end will matter is that ps4 gpu/cpu uses about 300 more bits. in the end this gen will come down to exlusives and that's it. lets be honest both ps4 and xbox ones are already behind in tech.
 
[quote name='TimboSliceGB']where o i start with this one lol. The tv thing should work with every cable box and not just certain providers seeing it's hdmi in and out. i have had 3 cable companys and all work with my home theater system that has the same guide thing x1 offers. 2. x1 is not underpowere if you compare it to ps4 yes the cpu is a bit faster on ps4 but with that said cpu is not the biggst thing when it comes to games theyy are pretty much equal. just unhook kinect when system is not on boom mic and cam is off.[/QUOTE]

If you go by the specs sheet, TV only works with the latest cable boxes.
 
[quote name='KingBroly']If you go by the specs sheet, TV only works with the latest cable boxes.[/QUOTE]

who does not have a updated cable box? it takes two secs to call your tv provider to get a updated box. but to be honest i doudt i will ever use my x1 to watch tv at first it will be cool but most of the time when im home i have my tv on and i will not want my x1 being on all that time heck i have a 360 slim and get scared to leave it on for long time.
 
i just don't trust any video game system being on for hours upon hours don't matter if it's 360,ps3 or wii u. All game systems don't use enough cooling as they should.
 
I would just love to say that I love visiting this thread on a daily basis. I love reading TimboSliceGB's post. Be if spelling error, grammatical errors, or just plain batshit crazy rationale for every MS move.

They make me smile like when you hear a child explain that the sun goes away at night because he is sleepy and need to get sleep too, or else he'll be too tired to give us sun rays and it does happen that's why it rains. but sometime when it does rain he still gives us rays because he loves us too much and has to shine
 
[quote name='tokyostomp']I would just love to say that I love visiting this thread on a daily basis. I love reading TimboSliceGB's post. Be if spelling error, grammatical errors, or just plain batshit crazy rationale for every MS move.

They make me smile like when you hear a child explain that the sun goes away at night because he is sleepy and need to get sleep too, or else he'll be too tired to give us sun rays and it does happen that's why it rains. but sometime when it does rain he still gives us rays because he loves us too much and has to shine[/QUOTE]

omgggggggggggggg since when is this langauage arts class? i hope we meet at e3 i really do i should put my gamertag on a name tag just for you.
 
tokyostomp keeps talking but yet everytime i look at his profile he is playing his xbox 360 just like he is doing now. if you hate ms so much why are you playing their system and paying for xbox gold
 
Seeing how the TV feature part of the Xbox One requires a cable box and a cable subscription to use. How many of you guys have cable still? I personally canceled cable a few years ago to cut cost since it was going up every year, and the fact I don't watch much tv. Statistics also show majority of Americans are doing the same thing. I'm happy with OTA local channels and netflix right now.

http://www.businessinsider.com/comcast-loses-nearly-400000-subscribers-in-last-year-2012-8
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/technology/2013/02/how-much-more-expensive-can-tv-get/61870/
 
at this piont their is no point to even talk on this forum. Every freaking thing i say even if it's just a opinion i get bashed for it left and right but yet everyone else says opinions and because it's a negative opinion to microsoft everyone loves them. Let's be honest i have been on this website long enough to know who is who and most people that chat here is either nintendo lovers and haters of everything else or sony lovers. maybe if microsoft came out and said all this stuff was true yes it would give everyone the right to bash them but it's all rumors at this point. i really don't care anymore come novemember i will have ps4 and x1 and wii u and pc so i can enjoy every single great game in this gaming world and you people can have nothing because you system gamers can't accept change and not be mad at something pc gamers has have to live with for years. system gamers are just spoild little brats on a playground something changes thanks to your fellow hackers and piracy you guys cry about it like babys.
 
[quote name='htz']Seeing how the TV feature part of the Xbox One requires a cable box and a cable subscription to use. How many of you guys have cable still? I personally canceled cable a few years ago to cut cost since it was going up every year, and the fact I don't watch much tv. Statistics also show majority of Americans are doing the same thing. I'm happy with OTA local channels and netflix right now.

http://www.businessinsider.com/comcast-loses-nearly-400000-subscribers-in-last-year-2012-8
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/technology/2013/02/how-much-more-expensive-can-tv-get/61870/[/QUOTE]

well seeing most internet providers have internet usage caps and those will only come down streaming services will go down the tube and most people will buy cable once again. but for me i pay 65 bucks for att uverse 250 channels it's far less then normal cable
 
Lol. It's not that I hate MS in anyways I just don't agree with the position they seem have to taken with the upcoming Xbox. I hope that we meet each other at E3. I will take a picture with you and post it up here.

I don't have any bad blood I just find it odd that you seem to defend pretty much any move that Microsoft makes. Maybe you want the Xbox One to really succeed but generally everyone here takes MS with a grain of salt. Yes they make a good console. The games are enjoyable. But you everything they do good, they do two things that are negative.

Also I've been drinking and I get feisty.

But honestly Timbo I got nothing but love for you.


The way it breaks down for me is that I will have no problems with the Xbox One personally. The way I play, My internet, the DRM, it is not an issue. I could buy the system day one and be perfectly content with it.
However I will not more on a philosophical stance. I refuse to support a company that requires the loss of what I consider gaming liberties. I simplify cannot stand to be okay with stuff if i think it is wrong. A perfect example is Kinect. I have no problem with it in my house. But to be mandatory even when games do not support it is asinine.
Maybe I'm paranoid about how far companies will take things because they can.
 
[quote name='tokyostomp']Lol. It's not that I hate MS in anyways I just don't agree with the position they seem have to taken with the upcoming Xbox. I hope that we meet each other at E3. I will take a picture with you and post it up here.

I don't have any bad blood I just find it odd that you seem to defend pretty much any move that Microsoft makes. Maybe you want the Xbox One to really succeed but generally everyone here takes MS with a grain of salt. Yes they make a good console. The games are enjoyable. But you everything they do good, they do two things that are negative.

Also I've been drinking and I get feisty.

But honestly Timbo I got nothing but love for you.[/QUOTE]

honestly im defending them at this point because most of it is rumors. to be honest if all the rumors become true unless x1 has first party games at launch i want i might not get it right at launch my money will go to ps4 unless they have the same junk. i think it would be awful move for microsoft to do this strict used game thing. i just never been a person that got angry over rumors. it's even more hard to get angry over these rumors seeing so many dif stories are going around when it comes to used games i really don't think microsoft even knows yet what they are doing fully so why so much hate.
 
i just think it's unfair to be jumping over microsoft over rumors and then not jump over ps4 seeing their are just same amount of unanswered question that sony has yet to answer. if same thing was going on why sony and ps4 i would stick up for them also heck even nintendo i would do the same even if i don't like what nintendo has become.

all i ask for is great systems and no bs from either of these companys when microsoft and sony compete for peoples money it only helps us im a gamer im not a one company guy i just love games don't matter what system.
 
all i ask for is great systems and no bs from either of these companys when microsoft and sony compete for peoples money it only helps us im a gamer im not a one company guy i just love games don't matter what system.
 
Microsoft rumors tend to have more of a percentage of them being true based on interviews with Microsoft employees. Maybe someone said something that they shouldn't have, let the cat out the bag.

Sony rumors are more based on speculations than anything else. They have not stated anything, so there is no reliable information to base it on.

It's not to say that Sony doesn't have a similar game plan. But they have not commented on it, then took it back, clarified it, and then said wait for full facts.

The way Microsoft is going about it seems very shady to me.

The best analogy I can think of right now is poker. You know someone who lies and bluffs if you watch them enough (MS). You can't tell if they are lying or telling the truth.
It is harder to read a player who is for the most part kept a straight-faced and refused to reveal their cards(Sony).
 
this is nothing new with microsoft they have been this way as a company since i can remember mostly when it comes to computer software. microsoft workers don't know how to keep their mouths shut and they have awful pr department.

the thing that makes me scared about ps4 and x1 is that they are being rushed. for so long till like late last year people were saying we would not see new systems till 2014. I really think what happend was both microsoft and sony was scared the other one was going to announce their system and have it out months before their own system. Sony people decided they could not take a chance to allow microsoft to come out first and rushed out a revieal which is why controller was only showed. All this going on with microsoft shows they were 100 percent not ready for sony to show stuff off yet.
 
the thing that makes me scared about ps4 and x1 is that they are being rushed. for so long till like late last year people were saying we would not see new systems till 2014. I really think what happend was both microsoft and sony was scared the other one was going to announce their system and have it out months before their own system. Sony people decided they could not take a chance to allow microsoft to come out first and rushed out a revieal which is why controller was only showed. All this going on with microsoft shows they were 100 percent not ready for sony to show stuff off yet.
 
[quote name='TimboSliceGB']this is nothing new with microsoft they have been this way as a company since i can remember mostly when it comes to computer software. microsoft workers don't know how to keep their mouths shut and they have awful pr department.[/QUOTE]


It's a bad way to run a company and MS should clean house and get rid of them. If they did this and had employees they could rely on to keep with the company script, I can guarantee that the bad press would be no where as bad as it is now.

It still is not an excuse. At the end of the day they are responsible for it.
 
[quote name='TimboSliceGB']i just think it's unfair to be jumping over microsoft over rumors and then not jump over ps4 seeing their are just same amount of unanswered question that sony has yet to answer. if same thing was going on why sony and ps4 i would stick up for them also heck even nintendo i would do the same even if i don't like what nintendo has become.[/QUOTE]
The always online rumor was always attached to the next xbox months before the reveal. It just so happens that Phil Harrison confirmed it right after the xbox one reveal. Then you have multiple sources like xbox twitter support denying it and then Microsoft started back peddling. 3-4 days after the incident and Major Nelson still is dancing around the bush relating to the topic. The questions aren't hard to answer either, it is basically yes or no. I would had respected Microsoft's decisions to block used games and implemented always online cause at least they didn't do what they are doing now. People are bashing you cause you are coming across as defending them and that we should take it as the stupid customers Microsoft think we are until E3.

If the details of always online and blocking used games weren't fully complete, Phil Harrison should had kept his mouth shut. Which is exactly what Sony did, they gave us little detail and told us to wait. No need to further press the issue and no need to to lie to us about anything.
 
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