Xbox One on the way. DRM removed, more details to come.

[dmaul1114]

The interesting scenario that this sets up is whether publishers would want to pull their games from PS4 because they're not being "protected" from used game sales.

Realistically we're probably looking at a 55/45 split at most (one way or the other). With the cost of game development, publishers can't turn their back on 45% of the market. Hell, they probably couldn't turn their back on the 25% in your example.

Third party exclusives are largely a thing of the past, as with the huge development costs publishers need their big budget, hopeful blockbuster titles on as many platforms as possible to get as many sales as possible. Both to make their budgets back, and still turn a profit by making up for the ones that flop and don't sell.

So yeah, Sony basically called their bluff and just left them to keep doing online passes for the MP portion of their games if they want, but otherwise told them to piss off about wanting strong DRM like on X1.

 

[TimboSliceGB]

man what a day i had on the floor today. to start the day their was a pretty large group of people sitting next to ms booth and putting up signs telling people to not support ms ( not sure what happpend to that group they were not their after i got out of ms booth).I will say lines were longer for ps stuff then x1 stuff. i played couple x1 only games and ps4 only games and all were great. ps3 controller is really really nice and x1 feels so small compared to 360. Main goal for tommow is 3rd party games and maybe some nintendo.

 

[Blaster man]

man what a day i had on the floor today. to start the day their was a pretty large group of people sitting next to ms booth and putting up signs telling people to not support ms ( not sure what happpend to that group they were not their after i got out of ms booth).I will say lines were longer for ps stuff then x1 stuff. i played couple x1 only games and ps4 only games and all were great. ps3 controller is really really nice and x1 feels so small compared to 360. Main goal for tommow is 3rd party games and maybe some nintendo.

What games did you play specifically?

 

[dennisb407]

Pre-ordered 1 of each at Best Buy.com last night, went into my local Gamestop tonight they had already sold out of the Xbox preorders, so I preordered another PS4. $100 down.

 

[Daywalker]

If it only wasn't for this DRM nonsense and the Kinect being required, i'm sure Xbox One would have the leg up on Sony.  Without the Kinect, the Xbox One would most likely be at the same price as the PS4.  Aside from that, Kingdom Hearts 3 and a few others are coming out on the Xbox One anyway.  Xbox One would have been the way to go with Titanfall(if this rivals CoD, you know damn well people will go crazy for it), Dead rising 3, KI3 and Forza 5 to go along with KH3/FFXV, and then the trailer for Halo 5.  

I can't believe how badly they are screwing this up.  Phil Spencer's response was not what I was expecting.  

 

[TimboSliceGB]

man what a day i had on the floor today. to start the day their was a pretty large group of people sitting next to ms booth and putting up signs telling people to not support ms ( not sure what happpend to that group they were not their after i got out of ms booth).I will say lines were longer for ps stuff then x1 stuff. i played couple x1 only games and ps4 only games and all were great. ps3 controller is really really nice and x1 feels so small compared to 360. Main goal for tommow is 3rd party games and maybe some nintendo.

What games did you play specifically?

xbox 1 Quantum Break,ryse,madden25, couple rounds of tittanfall

ps4 = second son,killzone,destiny (only non exclusive game i played today) couple of the indie games they showed last night.

Pre-ordered 1 of each at Best Buy.com last night, went into my local Gamestop tonight they had already sold out of the Xbox preorders, so I preordered another PS4. $100 down.

im lucky i got my ps4 order in on amazon last night they are already gone

 

[WV Matsui]

How was madden?

 

[TimboSliceGB]

How was madden?

only thing they had for next gen is lame tech demo just able to run running plays. i played this gen madden and it's fantastic the 2nd engine that they fixed from last year is great you cna run the ball now oline is much better . on the next gen topic i really don't see and feel a diff yes the players and stadium looks better but game play is the same. i think i will stick with madden 25 on 360 till next year get it for next gen.

i will say the xbox one is pretty dang small not near the size it looked on stage in may and kinect is smaller then current kinect. Ps4 is pretty much the same size as x1 just has that little slant down thing.

 

[dennisb407]

How was madden?

only thing they had for next gen is lame tech demo just able to run running plays. i played this gen madden and it's fantastic the 2nd engine that they fixed from last year is great you cna run the ball now oline is much better . on the next gen topic i really don't see and feel a diff yes the players and stadium looks better but game play is the same. i think i will stick with madden 25 on 360 till next year get it for next gen.

i will say the xbox one is pretty dang small not near the size it looked on stage in may and kinect is smaller then current kinect. Ps4 is pretty much the same size as x1 just has that little slant down thing.

Play Dead Rising 3??

 

[TimboSliceGB]

How was madden?

only thing they had for next gen is lame tech demo just able to run running plays. i played this gen madden and it's fantastic the 2nd engine that they fixed from last year is great you cna run the ball now oline is much better . on the next gen topic i really don't see and feel a diff yes the players and stadium looks better but game play is the same. i think i will stick with madden 25 on 360 till next year get it for next gen.

i will say the xbox one is pretty dang small not near the size it looked on stage in may and kinect is smaller then current kinect. Ps4 is pretty much the same size as x1 just has that little slant down thing.

Play Dead Rising 3??

no will try to check it out tommow

 

[Blaster man]

How was madden?

only thing they had for next gen is lame tech demo just able to run running plays. i played this gen madden and it's fantastic the 2nd engine that they fixed from last year is great you cna run the ball now oline is much better . on the next gen topic i really don't see and feel a diff yes the players and stadium looks better but game play is the same. i think i will stick with madden 25 on 360 till next year get it for next gen.

i will say the xbox one is pretty dang small not near the size it looked on stage in may and kinect is smaller then current kinect. Ps4 is pretty much the same size as x1 just has that little slant down thing.

Play Dead Rising 3??

no will try to check it out tommow

What about the rest of the games? How were they?

 

[Relentless Sheep]

man what a day i had on the floor today. to start the day their was a pretty large group of people sitting next to ms booth and putting up signs telling people to not support ms ( not sure what happpend to that group they were not their after i got out of ms booth).I will say lines were longer for ps stuff then x1 stuff. i played couple x1 only games and ps4 only games and all were great. ps3 controller is really really nice and x1 feels so small compared to 360. Main goal for tommow is 3rd party games and maybe some nintendo.

What games did you play specifically?

xbox 1 Quantum Break,ryse,madden25, couple rounds of tittanfall

ps4 = second son,killzone,destiny (only non exclusive game i played today) couple of the indie games they showed last night.

Pre-ordered 1 of each at Best Buy.com last night, went into my local Gamestop tonight they had already sold out of the Xbox preorders, so I preordered another PS4. $100 down.

im lucky i got my ps4 order in on amazon last night they are already gone

Are you serious!? I was just about to order mine after work today.........................

 

[TimboSliceGB]

How was madden?

only thing they had for next gen is lame tech demo just able to run running plays. i played this gen madden and it's fantastic the 2nd engine that they fixed from last year is great you cna run the ball now oline is much better . on the next gen topic i really don't see and feel a diff yes the players and stadium looks better but game play is the same. i think i will stick with madden 25 on 360 till next year get it for next gen.

i will say the xbox one is pretty dang small not near the size it looked on stage in may and kinect is smaller then current kinect. Ps4 is pretty much the same size as x1 just has that little slant down thing.

Play Dead Rising 3??

no will try to check it out tommow

What about the rest of the games? How were they?

all the games i played today were pretty good i really loved Q.B the most

well looks like amazon has more ps4's for pre order looked two hours ago it was out of stock

 

[Hextech Raven]

xbox 1 Quantum Break,ryse,madden25, couple rounds of tittanfall


ps4 = second son,killzone,destiny (only non exclusive game i played today) couple of the indie games they showed last night.

That's pretty cool! I wish I could go to E3 T_T

How was the Titanfall multiplayer? It looks pretty cool, but I wanna hear some hands-on opinions

 

[TimboSliceGB]

xbox 1 Quantum Break,ryse,madden25, couple rounds of tittanfall


ps4 = second son,killzone,destiny (only non exclusive game i played today) couple of the indie games they showed last night.

That's pretty cool! I wish I could go to E3 T_T

How was the Titanfall multiplayer? It looks pretty cool, but I wanna hear some hands-on opinions

it was pretty fun i will say it plays some like the free to play pc game hawkin mixed with cod. you can tell these guys were the minds behind cod which is not a bad thing seeing mw1 was by far best fps game on last gen.

amazon is sold out of x1 and ps4 launch day systems same with all 4 of my local game stops back at home

 

[superman1180]

I think both systems will be successful, however the drm on the xbox one is ridiculous. I liked what I've seen of Killer Instinct and Forza, but if I don't truly "own" the game I paid $60 for I can't support that. I keep reading the news  hoping Microsoft will  change their policy. I've owned the last two Xboxes and would hate to stop now.

This text from the xbox one game listings on bestbuy.com just makes me feel uneasy:

" Game for activation and distribution only in select countries. Requires account on Xbox LIVE in Xbox One-supported Xbox LIVE country required (not all Xbox LIVE countries). Features and requirements may change. Broadband Internet (ISP fees apply) and advanced TV hardware required. Additional Internet speed, subscriptions and/or requirements apply for some features. You must accept Xbox Terms of Use (including standard application license terms); Some games not transferrable and have no resale value; restrictions on game usage apply."

I read someone suggest a backup disc based verification process and think that would be acceptable so in the absence of a net connection you could just have the game disc in the console. I don't see why that couldn't be done.

 

[Monsta Mack]

You know what cracks me up? Is the amount of people on facebook, etc. think that the internet = the view of the world. Here's a few examples:

The original Wii was hated by the hardcore fans/the internet. Guess what? Ended up being the best selling system last gen.

The Kinect was trashed by 360 fans and the internet. Ended up being the best selling "add on" of all time AFAIK.

The Vita was praised for It's graphics and playability when shown at E3. Everyone was wowed by it. When it released, the reception was lackluster and It's being outsold by the 3DS 8 to 1.

I have a feeling the XBox One will do just fine.

Also, funny how Nintendo and Microsoft have one thing in common.

The Wii U tablet controller is costing Nintendo it's chance to do a price cut.

The XBox 1 Kinect 2.0 camera is costing Microsoft It's chance to do a price cut (granted they can afford it, but they outlined profitablity day one. Which wouldn't be possible at a lower price tag.)

 

[Hextech Raven]

I read someone suggest a backup disc based verification process and think that would be acceptable so in the absence of a net connection you could just have the game disc in the console. I don't see why that couldn't be done.

I agree. The every 24 hours authentication is honestly the only thing I dislike about the X1 so far, and I'm hoping that this tremendous public backlash has MS re-evaluating if they really need to have it or at least have some kind of offline alternative. The disc-based authentication would definitely be something that would work well.

 

[Revixe06]

I think both systems will be successful, however the drm on the xbox one is ridiculous. I liked what I've seen of Killer Instinct and Forza, but if I don't truly "own" the game I paid $60 for I can't support that. I keep reading the news hoping Microsoft will change their policy. I've owned the last two Xboxes and would hate to stop now.

I'm right there with you on that. I'm sure I'll pick up at PS4 at some point, but for the time being, I'm really pulling for the Xbox One. Their policy on used games right now is kind of iffy, but it's tolerable; however, being required to connect your console to the internet once every 24 hours is just ridiculous. When I buy a game, I want to know that I'll be able to play it whenever I want, and not have to worry about always being connected to the internet. In the end though, we still have quite a while until the release of either console, so maybe they'll change their policy. Guess we'll just have to wait and hope for the best.

 

[TimboSliceGB]

i trully think ms will back peddle alot before system is out it's possible the 24 hour thing is either gone or still their but only needed if you play a game with no disc. i think ms will calm down or explain used game stuff little bit more. possible a lower priced system bundle also

i just hope ms does backpeddle and change some things. The x1 only games i played today are just out right amazing and would be sad to see people miss out on great games because garbage ms is pulling.

 

[francium34]

Glad to hear good things about the X1 exclusives. Seriously, with most games all multi-platform, and finally landing FFxv and KH3, Microsoft was positioned very well...if not for the "innovations" they took.

I've talked to all my friends, and quite a few still want the X1, saying they don't mind the DRM, would rather stay with their friends on Xbox Live, or hate the Dual shock controller. 

Also MS has positioned themselves well for the few big name multiplayer games: timed exclusive DLC for BOTH Battlefield and COD. Exclusive content for FIFA. Throw in GoW and Halo down the road. And they have NFL/fantasy football to attract the Madden crowd.--They' are very attractive for people playing these biggest MP games, which people have to be online anyways, so they won't mind the DRM restrictions. Simply this will keep MS afloat.

 

[Dr.Zoidberg]

The interesting scenario that this sets up is whether publishers would want to pull their games from PS4 because they're not being "protected" from used game sales.

Realistically we're probably looking at a 55/45 split at most (one way or the other).

I think you are bring hopeful with that 55/45 split. I think a lot of people will be jumping ship to PS4 from Xbox with the DRM and other problems plus $100 cheaper. It's a shame but MS shot themselves in the foot this time.

 

[TimboSliceGB]

The interesting scenario that this sets up is whether publishers would want to pull their games from PS4 because they're not being "protected" from used game sales.

Realistically we're probably looking at a 55/45 split at most (one way or the other).

I think you are bring hopeful with that 55/45 split. I think a lot of people will be jumping ship to PS4 from Xbox with the DRM and other problems plus $100 cheaper. It's a shame but MS shot themselves in the foot this time

i think we will see some backpeddle going on from ms with a less then 399 system with some kind of xbox live contract

 

[Dr.Zoidberg]

i hope they dont put it up at $399 plus that crap of $15 per bucks for Xbox live "bundle". Worst bundle ever.

 

[Corvin]

If you think you are voting by using your wallet you really are clueless. Both will sell no matter what. Will one do better? Yes but both will survive.

The 3DS launch is actually a great example of this working. People refusing to buy it resulted in a price drop and several head Nintendo execs who were responsible for the lackluster launch giving themselves pay cuts. Yes it's still around, but it made Nintendo realize they needed to wake up, take a hint, and improve their product. I don't necessarily want to see the Xbox dead, I want to see them do right by their fans and consumers in general.

How soon we forget the wall of PS3s found in stores a week after Christmas. Gamers spoke with their wallets forcing Sony to wake the up. $100 price cut inside of 7 months. Brand loyalty only gets you so far. Take advantage of your fan base and it'll bite you in the ass.

 

[slickkill77]

Microsoft was too arrogant this time around. They played the role Sony played last gen. When Sony unveiled a $599 ps3 people were beyond shocked and the ps3 fell behind. Microsoft took advantage and jumped out to an aggressive lead. This time Sony is going to play the aggressive role and Microsoft is playing the arrogant side that will fall behind. 

I still think Microsoft will make the DRM check every 24 hours only if you want to play with no disc. If you have the disc in you will be ok. Best compromise I can think of there. As for justifying the $499 price vs ps4's price? I would say throw 6 months to 1 year of XBL in with every launch console. That's only $60 but that would guarantee Microsoft gets 100% Xbox Live Gold adoption from their launch consoles. Everyone may not renew but it would be a good way to gain new customers and it would be a nice gesture. Plus it wouldn't cost Microsoft a lot out of pocket vs putting a game or something else in the bundle. 

I want to know how much each company is going to lose for every console they sell money wise. I would have to imagine Sony is going to be losing a large chunk of money on every PS4 sold and Microsoft is probably losing far less

 

[TimboSliceGB]

to be honest if they took away the 24 hour thing and say only needed if you don't use a disc seeing when it comes to used games they are doing the same thing sony is doing allowing publishers to decided would bring people back. 500 price tag for what you get really is not that bad if sony boxed in ps eye with every ps4 they would be at 500 i think or 450. 

 

[Monsta Mack]

Any word on headsets outside of the madcatz ones? I just want a basic headset to use with the system, and not just the Kinect.

 

[kcobra22]

Alright, here are my thoughts...

$500 is okay with me. It would be nice if it was cheaper but for $500 I get the xbox one, kinect 2.0, and basically a built in capture card (people should factor this into both consoles prices). Plus they partnered with Twitch so thats great. Being able to plug my directv box into my x1 and switch around from gaming, TV, and apps will be smooth. Smartglass is being utilized by alot more developers now so I wanna see what cool things come from that. Oh yeah, and finally getting blu-ray is good.

Forced kinect is also a good thing. Let me explain. I bought a kinect day one and I've only used it for kinect adventures, wreckateer, and mass effect 3. I used it breifly with Ghost Recon to get that minority report feel which was cool BUT, I never have my kinect plugged in because I just don't use it....so I never bothered again with that or any other small kinect features that developers add in to games. With developers now knowing everyone will own a kinect 2, and have it plugged in for sure (even though you can still turn it off), I think we will cross the line between 'gimmicky' and useful for alot of games. 

I feel like microsoft is focusing long term...lets say these consoles last 8 years, I think microsoft has alot of stuff in place to keep it going as both a gaming machine and entertainment device. I guess I think of it like the iphone...how many things did the iphone do that seem so normal now, but were alot to take in at the time.

Just my opinion of course.

 

[WV Matsui]

Any word on headsets outside of the madcatz ones? I just want a basic headset to use with the system, and not just the Kinect.

There is going to be headsets from both Polk Audio and Turtle Beach with a COD TB exclusive headset as well.

I will have to dig up the TB stuff but here is the image for the Polk headset and Soundbar

Alright, here are my thoughts...

$500 is okay with me. It would be nice if it was cheaper but for $500 I get the xbox one, kinect 2.0, and basically a built in capture card (people should factor this into both consoles prices). Plus they partnered with Twitch so thats great. Being able to plug my directv box into my x1 and switch around from gaming, TV, and apps will be smooth. Smartglass is being utilized by alot more developers now so I wanna see what cool things come from that. Oh yeah, and finally getting blu-ray is good.

Forced kinect is also a good thing. Let me explain. I bought a kinect day one and I've only used it for kinect adventures, wreckateer, and mass effect 3. I used it breifly with Ghost Recon to get that minority report feel which was cool BUT, I never have my kinect plugged in because I just don't use it....so I never bothered again with that or any other small kinect features that developers add in to games. With developers now knowing everyone will own a kinect 2, and have it plugged in for sure (even though you can still turn it off), I think we will cross the line between 'gimmicky' and useful for alot of games.

I feel like microsoft is focusing long term...lets say these consoles last 8 years, I think microsoft has alot of stuff in place to keep it going as both a gaming machine and entertainment device. I guess I think of it like the iphone...how many things did the iphone do that seem so normal now, but were alot to take in at the time.

Just my opinion of course.

I really like how you are thinking and agree a lot. I think if you drop all the controversy that the X1 is the better console and will prove that in the long run both with games and entertainment features. It's a shame the DRM and 24 check are ruining it. Some people care about that stuff some dont. I think we will see a tweak to the plan before November and the X1 will still come out on top.

--------------


Ubisoft still hasn't decided on allowing us to sell our used games from them on the X1

"The Xbox One will only allow the sale of used games if the publisher of a specific game allows it. What do publishers, less than six months out from the console's launch, think of this?

Well, one of the biggest in the world, Ubisoft, has no idea. Or at least isn't publicly talking.

Speaking with GameSpot, Ubisoft CEO Yves Guillemot was asked whether his company would be allowing the sale of used games on the Xbox One, to which he replied "We haven't decided yet."
http://kotaku.com/ubisoft-says-we-still-havent-decided-over-xbox-one-p-512760390

 

[Spybreak8]

Any word on headsets outside of the madcatz ones? I just want a basic headset to use with the system, and not just the Kinect.

Sure have a look at what Turtle Beach is working on.

 

[Dr.Zoidberg]

Ok, let me say first, I'm a simple gamer.  I rarely play single player games that are not COD/BF type (I tried Dead Space, Alan Wake, Bioshock to name a few) and never finished any of them.  It's prob my ADD acting up but multiplayer (once again, COD/BF type) is the reason I play games.  I do play some sports (basketball and football, just not online) every now and then.  The Kinect doesn't appeal to me at all.  All of my friends have the 360 so we play together and none of them are looking to update to Xbox one because of so many reasons so there is no reason pushing me to get one right away.  I wish they had a bundle that didn't include the kinect at maybe $450.  Looks like some beautiful games comig to both the Xbox one and PS4.

 

[Spybreak8]

Speaking with GameSpot, Ubisoft CEO Yves Guillemot was asked whether his company would be allowing the sale of used games on the Xbox One, to which he replied "We haven't decided yet."
http://kotaku.com/ubisoft-says-we-still-havent-decided-over-xbox-one-p-512760390

Yeah I've heard this from other big publishers as Peter Moore of EA was asked the same and we got the same question. He mentioned they just found out about it when they were getting ready to depart to E3.

It looked like Microsoft put out that info at that time so that nobody would be prepared when asked about it at E3. Sneaky sneaky.

 

[Corvin]

$500 is okay with me. It would be nice if it was cheaper but for $500 I get the xbox one, kinect 2.0, and basically a built in capture card (people should factor this into both consoles prices).

I disagree. I'm willing to bet 9 out of 10 gamers won't do shit with the capture card(beyond testing it out) on either system but we are footing the bill for the 10% that will.

 

[cancerman1120]

Hard to keep up but I am not sure this was the best response to the question about online connectivity. 

Gamers Without Internet Can Stick With Xbox 360, Says Microsoft

“We have a product for people who aren't able to get some form of connectivity; it's called Xbox 360.”

“If you have zero access to the Internet, that is an offline device.”

Mattrick is aware of the kinds of gamers who’ll be missing out on Xbox One, and “absolutely” anticipated some blowback, but went on to reiterate he feels they have made the right call.

“Seriously, when I read the blogs and thought about who’s really the most impacted there was a person who said, ‘Hey I’m on a nuclear sub.’ And I don’t even know what it means to be on a nuclear sub but I’ve got to imagine it’s not easy to get an internet connection. But hey, I can empathise; if I was on a sub I’d be disappointed.

“It’s a service-based world, if you think about things and how they get better with an internet connection, that’s a design choice we’ve made. I think people will appreciate it... We did a lot of testing, a lot of consumer research and I think we made a good choice.”

Mattrick said Microsoft appreciates the passion of gamers but he believes gamers are “imagining outcomes that are worse than what we believe it’s going to be in the real world.”

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/06/12/gamers-without-internet-can-stick-with-xbox-360-says-microsoft

 

[Corvin]

yeah there's a youtube clip of this horses ass saying that, but MS is hell bent on having it removed every time it pops back up.

 

[bunck]

cancerman1120
Posted Today, 12:31 AM


Hard to keep up but I am not sure this was the best response to the question about online connectivity.

Gamers Without Internet Can Stick With Xbox 360, Says Microsoft“We have a product for people who aren't able to get some form of connectivity; it's called Xbox 360.”

“If you have zero access to the Internet, that is an offline device.”

Mattrick is aware of the kinds of gamers who’ll be missing out on Xbox One, and “absolutely” anticipated some blowback, but went on to reiterate he feels they have made the right call.

“Seriously, when I read the blogs and thought about who’s really the most impacted there was a person who said, ‘Hey I’m on a nuclear sub.’ And I don’t even know what it means to be on a nuclear sub but I’ve got to imagine it’s not easy to get an internet connection. But hey, I can empathise; if I was on a sub I’d be disappointed.

“It’s a service-based world, if you think about things and how they get better with an internet connection, that’s a design choice we’ve made. I think people will appreciate it... We did a lot of testing, a lot of consumer research and I think we made a good choice.”

Mattrick said Microsoft appreciates the passion of gamers but he believes gamers are “imagining outcomes that are worse than what we believe it’s going to be in the real world.”

http://www.ign.com/a...-says-microsoft

I am a little rusty on my tool speak but I believe that this roughly translates to "Deal with it." Timbo is a native speaker, maybe he can clarify this for us.

 

[io]

to be honest if they took away the 24 hour thing and say only needed if you don't use a disc seeing when it comes to used games they are doing the same thing sony is doing allowing publishers to decided would bring people back. 500 price tag for what you get really is not that bad if sony boxed in ps eye with every ps4 they would be at 500 i think or 450.

No, in that case they would still not be doing the same thing Sony does unless they backtrack completely on the DRM. Even if they allowed the disc to be there in place of an Internet check they would still, also, have to associate a license with that specific copy of the game and the specific account that installed it (otherwise non-disc play wouldn't work). The only thing MS is "allowing" publishers to decide is if they will enable trade-in to authorized retailers (where the disc key will get reset) or the one-time transfer of the license to an Xbox Live friend. They will still not allow the sale (by the end-user - ie, the customer who paid for the damn thing). Nor will they allow renting or lending discs to friends. So it is nothing like what Sony is doing. Now if they backtrack on all of that, then they will have to repeal the only good thing about their DRM which is the ability to play anywhere without your disc. But I don't see how they can have it both ways. Perhaps they could make a system where you decide up front whether you want to "install" your license and then in that case you can never trade/lend/sell (except for trading to authorized retailers) OR you can do disc-only play (or at least disc-in-tray play even if it plays off an installed copy) like with the 360.

So they are in a bad position of either recanting their entire process or sticking with what they have with maybe some minor tweaks that won't really solve the main issues.

What I don't understand is why so many people are upset with the 24-hour thing but not the inability to lend/trade/sell games freely. Personally I can live with the persistent connection. I can see situations where people wouldn't be able to do so and it would suck for them. But for most of CAG I wouldn't think that is a problem. It surprises me to see so many CAGs say that is the only problem they have with this whole setup. To me it is the least problematic issue of all of them. In fact, I'd take the 24-hour connect in a heartbeat in exchange for not having to put discs in for each game like we do now. But the problem is that is only a small part of what you give up for that "privilege".

 

[canvasch]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryB-hdtpQRw

i agree with angry joe.... i look forward to the ps4 ... ....if you don't know angry joe (live under a rock much?) he's a pretty solid reviewer.... personally, he's my favorite reviewer and has never let me down...  check out a review or two of his (yes they are long, but that's a good thing) for a game you played through and i'm sure you'll become a fan...

btw.. what about people with internet data caps? i mean.............idk...

 

[Hextech Raven]

to be honest if they took away the 24 hour thing and say only needed if you don't use a disc seeing when it comes to used games they are doing the same thing sony is doing allowing publishers to decided would bring people back. 500 price tag for what you get really is not that bad if sony boxed in ps eye with every ps4 they would be at 500 i think or 450.

What I don't understand is why so many people are upset with the 24-hour thing but not the inability to lend/trade/sell games freely. Personally I can live with the persistent connection. I can see situations where people wouldn't be able to do so and it would suck for them. But for most of CAG I wouldn't think that is a problem. It surprises me to see so many CAGs say that is the only problem they have with this whole setup. To me it is the least problematic issue of all of them. In fact, I'd take the 24-hour connect in a heartbeat in exchange for not having to put discs in for each game like we do now. But the problem is that is only a small part of what you give up for that "privilege".

I'm not upset about the inability to lend/trade/sell my games because I don't ever plan to do those things. I like to collect my games, I rarely purchase them used, and I haven't really lent out games since I was in high school 6 years ago (maybe once a year, and mostly to the same friend). Not to mention I've been gaming on the PC recently, and most of my friends are hardcore PC gamers, so the used games market just doesn't really apply to me and my group of friends.

That said, I don't even really care about the authentication every 24 hours thing because I have a pretty stable internet connection, but I just don't see why it has to be there. I mean, it's cool that I will be able to access my entire game library from someone else's console, but unless it can stream the game from MS's servers while it downloads and installs, I think it's a stupid feature and I would rather just bring the disc with me instead.

 

[PenguinMaster]

Perhaps they could make a system where you decide up front whether you want to "install" your license and then in that case you can never trade/lend/sell (except for trading to authorized retailers) OR you can do disc-only play (or at least disc-in-tray play even if it plays off an installed copy) like with the 360.

Even that wouldn't work, it would still need some sort of online authentication to see if the licence has been used before. There is no chance they are going to get rid of all the DRM on their discs so the system is beyond any hope of ever being good. The best we can possibly hope for is for the system to fail completely and they introduce a new DRM-free console in a few years. But knowing how much Microsoft loves DRM even if the console fails they won't stop trying.

I'm not upset about the inability to lend/trade/sell my games because I don't ever plan to do those things. I like to collect my games, I rarely purchase them used, and I haven't really lent out games since I was in high school 6 years ago (maybe once a year, and mostly to the same friend). Not to mention I've been gaming on the PC recently, and most of my friends are hardcore PC gamers, so the used games market just doesn't really apply to me and my group of friends.

What about the inability to keep your games? When (not if, but when) Microsoft stops supporting the Xbox One, all your games will be useless. You say you like to collect games, but your collection has an expiration date on the Xbox One.

 

[WolfmanASTN]

So I'd pretty much decided I'd get a PS4 first and then get an Xbox One down the line if/when the price drops a decent amount so I could play the exclusives, but then wi the release of that interview and how he pretty much says "we don't give a shit" to gamers in the military, I don't think I even want to touch it at all. If they do someone to make up for this or release an apology then I might reconsider. It's one thing to make a product that isn't friendly to most of your consumers, but then totally alienating them and saying "deal with it" with smug grin on your face is another.

 

[io]

It is possible that at the end of the Xbox One's lifespan they can turn off all the DRM and make it 100% disc-in-tray requirement to play the game.  They wouldn't have to check for licenses because no installed games would play without the disc being there.  At that point it would be just like the 360 is now.  Sure, it might cause a little trouble with people who bought or were gifted secondary licenses (as they wouldn't own the disc unless the original buyer sends it to them as well) but it is a hell of a lot better than turning them all off forever!

So there is relatively easy "out" for them on the expiration date of these games.  I'm actually not all that worried about that aspect - I would think they would have to address this in some way.  Though I'm not 100% confident on that - there are models out there where games will "expire" never to be played again (ie, Apple App store games).  But this is all so far off in the future I'm sure MS has no concrete plan for that yet (though for sure it has been discussed internally).

But let's also not forget that they are banking on this "cloud" business to enhance games and are probably expecting that games later in the system's lifespan, at least, will be pretty dependent on it.  That is why they have to cut Internet-challenged people free and also why the discussion of "expiration" of these games may be moot - they might simply not work without the cloud support anyway.  The game wouldn't really be fully contained on the disc (or your HD install) anyway.  It would be dependent on ephemeral server farms that only last as long as it is profitable for MS to maintain them.  This won't be all games for sure but it certainly seems like they want to head that way.

 

[Erad30]

I forget which one but I listened to a podcast awhile ago where someone was saying the cloud hasn't been sufficiently proven that it can even be used the way Microsoft is planning to do it, like it's never really been tested for that before. Hello constant crashes the first few years.

Good ol Phil Spencer kills any thoughts of MS backing off of their BS:

Microsoft’s Phil Spencer: “This Isn’t a Sprint”

“We’ve got more content to share,” says Microsoft Games Studios VP, addressing concerns.
by Luke Reilly
June 11, 2013

 



Microsoft has addressed the hostility towards the Xbox One sparked by concerns about its compulsory connectivity requirements and its convoluted approach to used games, renting and lending, gifting, and selling.

“We always knew that our story would play out over time,” said VP at Microsoft Game Studios Phil Spencer speaking with GameSpot. “And even now, I would say, this isn't a sprint. The platform launches this November; we've got more content to share."

“
The reaction, I think, is complete when the product is on the shelf.


“There are other means like Gamescom [and] TGS coming that will still continue to put a value [proposition] on what we're bringing to market,” Spencer added. “The reaction, I think, is complete when the product is on the shelf and it has a price and it has a content library and consumers vote.”

Unfortunately there are clearly enough people willing to actually deal with it, so I don't think this will make an impact this holiday. It might further down the line.

 

[Hodaka]

The Xbox One isn't going to be "always online" for games to check in and do things while you're not playing. When you have your Xbox One turned off, it will just be in a low power state and Microsoft will still be able to poll the box and check licensing and do crap to your system. Like about every other device in your house, turning it off only puts it in a low power state and there are parts that still run.

Why do people keep getting the idea that their games are all going to be playing themselves while the system is off?

This is 100% Microsoft being Big Brother and making sure you're licensed and gathering statistics on your habits to use/sell.

I posted this inthe Xbox preorder thread, but it got deleted for being OT, I guess. Is there any reason why Microsoft couldn't do away with the DRM policy given enough of an outcry? Someone responded to me and said that they couldn't because the system was designed to be always online, but it seems to me that if you can game for 24 hours without checking in, you could do it indefinitely.

This is my biggest qualm about the XB1. I can stand the used game stuff since I generally buy new, but the idea that I couldn't boot up the system in 10 or more years (like I like to do occasionally) and play my old games is a deal breaker.

Do you honestly think that disabling the 24 hour check 10 years down the road woudnt be as simple as a checkmark box? Honestly?

The system is designed to be online 24/7, mostly because the games are designed that way. Count the E3 titles. How many *arent* in a online persistent world? Very few that anyone cares about.

This is nothing more then Simcity "always online". We all know the Xbox One can play without it, but its a piracy mechanic in place.

$500 is okay with me. It would be nice if it was cheaper but for $500 I get the xbox one, kinect 2.0, and basically a built in capture card (people should factor this into both consoles prices).

I disagree. I'm willing to bet 9 out of 10 gamers won't do shit with the capture card(beyond testing it out) on either system but we are footing the bill for the 10% that will.

Just like all of my gamer friends who won't use the TV functionality because we've all cut our ties to TV and only use a few streaming services. An added cost for a "feature" that more and more people probably won't use.

edit: This seems to be getting stuck on "multiquote", despite choosing "quote", so I apologize if these 2 different posts are stuck together. grrrr!

 

[dmaul1114]

What I don't understand is why so many people are upset with the 24-hour thing but not the inability to lend/trade/sell games freely. Personally I can live with the persistent connection. I can see situations where people wouldn't be able to do so and it would suck for them. But for most of CAG I wouldn't think that is a problem. It surprises me to see so many CAGs say that is the only problem they have with this whole setup. To me it is the least problematic issue of all of them. In fact, I'd take the 24-hour connect in a heartbeat in exchange for not having to put discs in for each game like we do now. But the problem is that is only a small part of what you give up for that "privilege".

I'm with you on that. I don't like the 24 hour checks in principle, but they wouldn't affect me really as I can't recall the last time my internet was down for 24 hours or more. And like you I'd like not having to swap discs, just be able to accept a game invite while playing something else and jump right into my friend's game etc.

Only being able to trade/sell games to participating retailers was the main kicker that drove me to PS4--along with X1 being $100 more. I seldom replay games, and don't collect games. When I'm done with a game it gets listed and sold on the Amazon marketplace immediately. I don't want to give that up and be forced to take the peanuts Gamestop and other participating retailers give for trade ins, especially when these restricted games are costing the same $60 they do now at launch. Restricted games just don't have the same value since you won't be able to sell them for as much as we can now--regardless if we're talking buying a game for $60 a launch or $20 months/years later.

 

[MetalSlugger]

To all of the "no used games isn't a problem" people: have you ever tried to buy a niche OOP title years after its release? Nine times out of ten the only feasible option is a used copy. Games like Deadly Premonition or Xenoblade would be denied the slow burn that led to their cult status. You either buy it at launch or you're ed (barring a digital download at full price, if it's even available).

 

[dmaul1114]

Definitely another good point about used games.

Though it sounds like every PS4 and X1 game will be available digitally as well so that should always be an option for finding niche titles in the future.  Though as you note probably not as cheap as finding a used copy.

But that will be a nice benefit of games going digital--nothing should go OOP, at least not while the consoles are still around/being supported.

 

[Blaster man]

To all of the "no used games isn't a problem" people: have you ever tried to buy a niche OOP title years after its release? Nine times out of ten the only feasible option is a used copy. Games like Deadly Premonition or Xenoblade would be denied the slow burn that led to their cult status. You either buy it at launch or you're ed (barring a digital download at full price, if it's even available).

The obviously reply to that is that you'll be able to buy a digital copy. The obvious reply to the obvious reply is that, not once the console isn't supported.

 

[DestroVega]

You know what cracks me up? Is the amount of people on facebook, etc. think that the internet = the view of the world. Here's a few examples:

The original Wii was hated by the hardcore fans/the internet. Guess what? Ended up being the best selling system last gen.
The Kinect was trashed by 360 fans and the internet. Ended up being the best selling "add on" of all time AFAIK.
The Vita was praised for It's graphics and playability when shown at E3. Everyone was wowed by it. When it released, the reception was lackluster and It's being outsold by the 3DS 8 to 1.

I have a feeling the XBox One will do just fine.

Also, funny how Nintendo and Microsoft have one thing in common.
The Wii U tablet controller is costing Nintendo it's chance to do a price cut.
The XBox 1 Kinect 2.0 camera is costing Microsoft It's chance to do a price cut (granted they can afford it, but they outlined profitablity day one. Which wouldn't be possible at a lower price tag.)

Since launch Xbox Ones are pretty much sold out everywhere, it's definitely going to be just fine. I truly believe once it comes out and people actually see it, and all the negative hype dies out, lots of people will warm to it.