Xbox One on the way. DRM removed, more details to come.

[Gamer4life88]

I was talking to my co-worker about the new consoles today and he told me the XBone costs more money becasue its more powerful. I swear the casuals crack me up some times. :lol:

 

[TimboSliceGB]

when sony said used games are allowed on ps4 they were just talking about their 1st party games. sony knew what they were doing thats why they did not say it was up to publishers to allow used games or not after press conf was over. I can very well see EA putting a fee on used game sales and buys on ps4 and x1 seeing they got rid of online pass.

 

[PenguinMaster]

I was unaware that DRM was a "new" thing. I'm pretty sure I've had forms of DRM in ALL Media since I started playing PC games in the 80's. (Red spin wheels, what's word 5, page 87, paragraph 2 please) Is it worse now? Sure.. because they've already won that battle. It's over. Read the fine print of any game you've played in the last twenty years and get back to me k?

You're confusing DRM with copy-protection, they are very different things. The fine print saying I only have the licence to play the game prevents me from legally making a copy of the game, it does not give the publishers any legal right over the copy I bought. Half-Life 2 in 2004 was the first single-player game to have DRM in every copy of the game (until it was released on consoles) and while Steam is the lesser of two evils compared to the Xbox One I don't support it either.

There is actually far more that the fine print says.

The EULA (virtually ALL of them) specifically states that you are just a license of the software, that you do not own said software, nor can you give, trade, or otherwise sell said software.

Seriously, check one, it's in there. While that may seem to run afoul of first sale rules, its a bit iffy here in the US. (EU recently had a case on it for digital games actually, if you want to read up on that... albeit Steam has still not adhered to the rule and likely will not either)

Regardless of what the EULA says, the law is not on their side. If the law was on their side than any store that sold used games would have been shutdown years ago. The law unfortunately does not prevent companies from putting restrictions in their games to prevent them from being resold, those restrictions are DRM.

 

[TimboSliceGB]

I was talking to my co-worker about the new consoles today and he told me the XBone costs more money becasue its more powerful. I swear the casuals crack me up some times. :lol:

people like that is why xbox one will still sell crazy numbers

 

[Gamer4life88]

when sony said used games are allowed on ps4 they were just talking about their 1st party games

No they were not, they were talking about allowing third partys to put restrictions on the multiplayer aspect only. Just like now with the Online pass.

 

[PenguinMaster]

when sony said used games are allowed on ps4 they were just talking about their 1st party games

Which is exactly how the PS3 and Xbox 360 work. Sony did not put any additional methods to detect used games so all publishers can do is put online passes in their games. Those online passes can block off the entire game instead of just the multiplayer part but I don't see that happening especially with how Sony made the announcement. Any company that put the entire game behind an online pass would look absolutely horrible compared to all the companies that don't.

 

[n8rockerasu]

when sony said used games are allowed on ps4 they were just talking about their 1st party games. sony knew what they were doing thats why they did not say it was up to publishers to allow used games or not after press conf was over. I can very well see EA putting a fee on used game sales and buys on ps4 and x1 seeing they got rid of online pass.

Didn't Sony already debunk this? Last I heard that applied to online modes ONLY, and didn't affect single player gameplay at all...which basically makes it amount to the way things were this generation (ie. online passes). Where are you getting this info from?

LMAO...multiple people curb stomping Timbo and his bad info at the same time. I'm embarrassed that I even had to consider which one of us was wrong. For somebody who just wants a fair and unbiased discussion, you need to get your facts straight, dude.

 

[Killbomb]

when sony said used games are allowed on ps4 they were just talking about their 1st party games. sony knew what they were doing thats why they did not say it was up to publishers to allow used games or not after press conf was over. I can very well see EA putting a fee on used game sales and buys on ps4 and x1 seeing they got rid of online pass.

Unless I misunderstood it, there will no restrictions on any used games on PS4. The publishers have the right to add online passes which is how it currently works anyway.

That said, I keep going back and forth over which console to get first. At first, I was all for PS4 but I am leaning a bit back towards One for Dead Rising 3 and Killer Instinct at launch. Have a "standard" PS4 and a "Day One" One pre-ordered at Amazon so the timing of the delivery on each console will factor in as well.

 

[TimboSliceGB]

ps4 is doing same thing xbox is doing but in diff way. ps4 is allowing companys to do a thing when you buy game used in order to play anything you need to pay a price just like a online pass but a game pass. but unlike x1 ps4 is not putting it in their system like ms is.

people voted Ea as worst company in u.s but they still sold games like crazy. EA will have to make money some how on ps4.

 

[Gamer4life88]

when sony said used games are allowed on ps4 they were just talking about their 1st party games. sony knew what they were doing thats why they did not say it was up to publishers to allow used games or not after press conf was over. I can very well see EA putting a fee on used game sales and buys on ps4 and x1 seeing they got rid of online pass.

Unless I misunderstood it, there will no restrictions on any used games on PS4. The publishers have the right to add online passes which is how it currently works anyway.

You're right on the issue here's a quote from Mr. Trenton himself.

"Any game that is made for PS4 that is physical goods, whether first-party or third-party, can go into a PS4 and play regardless of where it came from. The first player will play it, no problem, the second player will play it, no problem. What I was referring to was the online proposition."

 

[TimboSliceGB]

think about it companys will get a taste of making money from used games on x1 they will 100 percent want some of the used game money on ps4. it's just a matter of time till alot of 3rd party games have full code locks on ps4 games also. I don't care what publishers say in the end they are in it to make money which is why these fees are being pushed so much. 

i think i would be fine with buying a used game for say 40 bucks and paying 10 bucks to unlock the single and mp of the game. Im a person that likes to support a publisher and game makers if i enjoy their product which is why i don't buy many used games. 

 

[n8rockerasu]

think about it companys will get a taste of making money from used games on x1 they will 100 percent want some of the used game money on ps4. it's just a matter of time till alot of 3rd party games have full code locks on ps4 games also. I don't care what publishers say in the end they are in it to make money which is why these fees are being pushed so much.

i think i would be fine with buying a used game for say 40 bucks and paying 10 bucks to unlock the single and mp of the game. Im a person that likes to support a publisher and game makers if i enjoy their product which is why i don't buy many used games.

So, you're back to asking everyone to make their decisions based on what your assumptions are? Come on dude. I thought we were past this.

 

[TimboSliceGB]

think about it companys will get a taste of making money from used games on x1 they will 100 percent want some of the used game money on ps4. it's just a matter of time till alot of 3rd party games have full code locks on ps4 games also. I don't care what publishers say in the end they are in it to make money which is why these fees are being pushed so much.

i think i would be fine with buying a used game for say 40 bucks and paying 10 bucks to unlock the single and mp of the game. Im a person that likes to support a publisher and game makers if i enjoy their product which is why i don't buy many used games.

So, you're back to asking everyone to make their decisions based on what your assumptions are? Come on dude. I thought we were past this.

im not telling anyone to make their decisions and on anything if you don't want the system don't buy it we are just have a discussion

 

[J7.]

why was not people angry once sony and ms allowed you to download games from internet? those you can sell but x1 games you can sell and buy used games yes you might not get alot for used games but really you almost never do now and gs will still do deals im sure. If people are upset about the 24 hour thing well so im i but seems like people are more upset about used game garbage then anything.

i also just hate how everyone blames this on ms. ms is leaving it up to publishers if the ywant to opt in or out of used game stuff which is same thing SONY is doing. if blame anyone lets blame publishers who are the ones pushing for this used game garbage. the thing is sony did not tell anyone about that till the conf was over because they wanted the reaction they got.

Your Xbox credit will be expiring 1 year from being transferred from points to real $. $ added after that though will not expire.

http://support.xbox.com/en-US/billing-and-subscriptions/account-management/microsoft-points-retire-faq

i don't see this a problem

It's just something to pay attention to. If you have a lot of credit on 360 and are going to unhook your 360 or sell it before Xbox One, or if you have so much saved up from buying during sales, you'll need to spend it. I bought a lot of 360 credit years ago that I've saved for 3-4 years now, due to sales on it. Now I gotta spend it. Sucks a little bit. I bet others have done the same.

 

[n8rockerasu]

think about it companys will get a taste of making money from used games on x1 they will 100 percent want some of the used game money on ps4. it's just a matter of time till alot of 3rd party games have full code locks on ps4 games also. I don't care what publishers say in the end they are in it to make money which is why these fees are being pushed so much.

i think i would be fine with buying a used game for say 40 bucks and paying 10 bucks to unlock the single and mp of the game. Im a person that likes to support a publisher and game makers if i enjoy their product which is why i don't buy many used games.

So, you're back to asking everyone to make their decisions based on what your assumptions are? Come on dude. I thought we were past this.

im not telling anyone to make their decisions and on anything if you don't want the system don't buy it we are just have a discussion

You're saying that the PS4 has "the same" DRM as the X1 because of something the publishers MIGHT want to do (if it's even allowed)...even though the president of Sony has given a released a statement to tell people that it applies to the online portion of games only...and is the same as it was on PS3. Ok....

Fair and unbiased...

 

[TimboSliceGB]

why was not people angry once sony and ms allowed you to download games from internet? those you can sell but x1 games you can sell and buy used games yes you might not get alot for used games but really you almost never do now and gs will still do deals im sure. If people are upset about the 24 hour thing well so im i but seems like people are more upset about used game garbage then anything.

i also just hate how everyone blames this on ms. ms is leaving it up to publishers if the ywant to opt in or out of used game stuff which is same thing SONY is doing. if blame anyone lets blame publishers who are the ones pushing for this used game garbage. the thing is sony did not tell anyone about that till the conf was over because they wanted the reaction they got.

Your Xbox credit will be expiring 1 year from being transferred from points to real $. $ added after that though will not expire.

http://support.xbox.com/en-US/billing-and-subscriptions/account-management/microsoft-points-retire-faq

i don't see this a problem

It's just something to pay attention to. If you have a lot of credit on 360 and are going to unhook your 360 or sell it before Xbox One, or if you have so much saved up from buying during sales, you'll need to spend it. I bought a lot of 360 credit years ago that I've saved for 3-4 years now, due to sales on it. Now I gotta spend it. Sucks a little bit. I bet others have done the same.

yeah true i would not spend it if you plan on getting x1 seeing nothing transfers i hope people don't go crazy and spend and then lose it if thye sell their 360

well was fun chatting but hockey game is over so heading out only one day left on e3 floor ;(

 

[Ashane]

Regardless of what the EULA says, the law is not on their side. If the law was on their side than any store that sold used games would have been shutdown years ago. The law unfortunately does not prevent companies from putting restrictions in their games to prevent them from being resold, those restrictions are DRM.

While I understand that, the actual cost of following up on a EULA lawsuit is such that the average consumer simply wont do it. You and I both know that. Furthermore, most EULA's have clauses that prevent class actions, which I'm assuming you know as well.

Also, I'd like to comment on this, cuz somehow I missed it:

"You're confusing DRM with copy-protection, they are very different things."

I'm actually not confusing them at all. DRM IS copy protection. Back in the 80's, we didn't have the name "DRM" for it. The entire purpose of having those red pinwheels that you could not photocopy and such was to protect the game developer from the consumer giving away his games to anyone else, because it was a physical media. I.E. I could give my copy of Bandit Kings of Ancient China (one of my favorite games) to 100 people, and we could all play it. Depriving Koei of 99 sales.

Today it's digital, so its online activation's and such, but the basis is exactly the same.. they dont want multiple people playing the same game.

This is called "First Generation DRM". FG-DRM seeks to prevent the copying of media, be it music, movies, video games, whatever. Sounds a awful lot like copy protection from the 80's dosent it? Because its the *same thing*.

 

[logicmeme]

I love this latest news, that upon exchanging our existing xbox points to currency - "Please note that any funds we deposit into your account at the time of the transition will expire one year from the deposit date.":

http://support.xbox.com/en-US/billing-and-subscriptions/account-management/microsoft-points-retire-faq

Another kick in the teeth of the consumer. I'm pretty sure this is also illegal, as there is law in place regarding limitations on expiration of gift cards. They sure are getting bold now, stating they are going to steal their users money after a year! I expect (and hope) MS will face a number of lawsuits surrounding this console, from theft (through gift card expiration) to draconian DRM likely violating the first sale doctrine (needs to be challened in court ASAP).

I'd also lay great odds on hackers attacking the xbox service frequently, and tons of naive and/or idiotic xbox one consumers wondering why they can't play their single player games on their system because servers are down for an hour. I can't imagine the outrage that will cause when it happens - the only people I feel sorry for will be xbox customer support reps who had no input on the idiotic and likely illegal policies of their employer. I wonder what the next xbox news will be - how much lower can they take it?

 

[thenutman69321]

Another kick in the teeth of the consumer. I'm pretty sure this is also illegal, as there is law in place regarding limitations on expiration of gift cards. They sure are getting bold now, stating they are going to steal their users money after a year! I expect (and hope) MS will face a number of lawsuits surrounding this console, from theft (through gift card expiration) to draconian DRM likely violating the first sale doctrine (needs to be challened in court ASAP).

I've been wondering how this is gonna play out as the points expiring does seem blatantly illegal to me although I'm sure MS had dozens of lawyers tell them it was legal before announcing it, some sort of loophole that makes points not actually gift cards maybe. As for the DRM violating first sale it's unfortunately probably legal, all they have to do is call it a license then you are licensing a product instead of buying it and you lose all those rights. I hope it gets challenged in court as well though because it is still a semi grey area as far as I understand it especially since at least one court in the EU has ruled that licenses must be able to be resold, as I understand that ruling said a fee could be charged though but that would appear to make blocking the resale of a game completely not allowed in that jurisdiction.

ps4 is doing same thing xbox is doing but in diff way. ps4 is allowing companys to do a thing when you buy game used in order to play anything you need to pay a price just like a online pass but a game pass. but unlike x1 ps4 is not putting it in their system like ms is.

This is incorrect. Some reports were saying some stuff like this about 24 hours ago but it was quickly clarified by Sony that they are allowing online passes if companies still want to use them but not any kind of game pass as you call it. Basically just the same DRM that's on the current gen consoles.

http://www.gamefront.com/sony-third-party-drm-refers-to-playing-used-games-online-only/

I don't know how you can say to people with a straight face that you aren't a MS fanboy. Post after post from you shows that you blatantly are which is fine, every system has their die hard fans and detractors who will defend every horrible decision the company they love makes or insult every decision the company they hate makes but come on at least admit it when it is blatant that you will never be swayed in your absolute love and devotion for the XBone. I get it I was the same type of fanboy with the X360 but with the XBone they've just pushed to far and I can no longer continue to defend them.

 

[Spybreak8]

I'm out but I just wanted to drop this off on my way off this thread lol.

Xbox One and PS4: Two peas in an E3 pod

 

[PenguinMaster]

I'm out but I just wanted to drop this off on my way off this thread lol.

Xbox One and PS4: Two peas in an E3 pod

Yes the two systems are pretty much the same... except the Xbox One has DRM and requires Kinect: the two things that make the system horrible.

I'm actually not confusing them at all. DRM IS copy protection. Back in the 80's, we didn't have the name "DRM" for it. The entire purpose of having those red pinwheels that you could not photocopy and such was to protect the game developer from the consumer giving away his games to anyone else, because it was a physical media. I.E. I could give my copy of Bandit Kings of Ancient China (one of my favorite games) to 100 people, and we could all play it. Depriving Koei of 99 sales.

Today it's digital, so its online activation's and such, but the basis is exactly the same.. they dont want multiple people playing the same game.

This is called "First Generation DRM". FG-DRM seeks to prevent the copying of media, be it music, movies, video games, whatever. Sounds a awful lot like copy protection from the 80's dosent it? Because its the *same thing*.

Yes, all DRM is copy protection. But all copy protection is not DRM. While they are both trying to do the same thing, DRM is far more restrictive because it has the technology to be.

I'm fine with a game that can't be copied. I am not fine with a game that can't be shared or sold. I am also not fine with anyone having control over the game I bought, and even worse every copy of the game in existence.

If you want to call it all DRM, fine. But my previous statement clearly defines what type of DRM I am against. Even if it is all DRM that does not mean it's all the same.

 

[kcobra22]

We're still CAGs though, so i'll give you a tip. Let's say you and a buddy are gonna buy BF4. Buy one copy, and then 'activate' it with your profile, but on his xbox. It will have two licenses...his xbox and your profile, so you can both play at your own houses at the same time, while splitting the cost of a game.

It looks like from the latest info that they might allow this. However, it may be that only one of you would be able to play at a time, so that kind of doesn't work for multiplayer titles. And it remains to be seen how generous they are with this "gamesharing" notion. I find it hard to believe they will just allow 10 people from all over the place to share a library (again, though, even if they do it is one person at a time so there could be quite a bit of squabbling over time slots for these gameshares ).

The gamesharing thing and the idea i'm talking about are two different things. MS did confirm that it would be tied to the first console and the gamertag its activated on. Basically, it's treated like digital things are now on xbox 360. Last week, my brother used my profile to buy state of decay on his xbox...and now we basically both have a copy. This works for XBLA games, Games on Demand, online passes, etc. Its a good way to get a CAG price, without having to wait for a price drop. For xbox one, this will work for both digital and physical games.

 

[8bitArtist]

^ LOL. Are you that out of touch with reality?

Why would anyone have to "white knight" for a kid in Africa. Plenty of people in America don't have the internet capabilities to realistically use the Xbox One.

Oh but don't worry... that's why Microsoft has the 360..... amiright?

Okie dokey then, let's white knight for some kid in America..... who most likely isnt that concerned with having a Xbox One but where their next food source is coming from.

Get my point? Dont white knight a video game. White knight the closure of reduced lunch programs across red states. White knight the lack of health care a vast majority of Americans get. White knight something important and meaningful. Not a damn video game.

All white knighting this does is make you seem a spoiled, entitled person who has to have what they want, exactly how they want it, and cant conceivably believe that not everything is for them. (But DAD, I WANT A TROPHY TOOOOOOOOO)

So it's okay for Microsoft to do whatever they want and infringe on consumer rights because video games are not a necessity? So you'd be fine if all media was completely controlled and restricted because you don't need it to survive?

On an unrelated note, I should stop reading this thread. It's making me associate Grand Theft Auto V with stupid Microsoft supporters.

I was unaware that DRM was a "new" thing. I'm pretty sure I've had forms of DRM in ALL Media since I started playing PC games in the 80's. (Red spin wheels, what's word 5, page 87, paragraph 2 please) Is it worse now? Sure.. because they've already won that battle. It's over. Read the fine print of any game you've played in the last twenty years and get back to me k?

There's one, and only one difference between Sony's DRM and Microsoft's. Sony, you can hand a game to a friend. Microsoft you can only do it once via a one time transfer after 30 days. They both sell used games, they both play used games.

kids that dont have internet are most likely starving? bahahahahaha. what a horrible generalization.

The more you post, the more you reveal you are either a child or vastly immature. I'd just stop posting, but, knowing kids, you wont.

Millions of children are starving in the US. 16.7 million in fact. A majority of those kids.. surprisingly enough.. don't have internet, nor do they have cable or anything else. So, the statement is completely accurate.

I know though, that evil Microsoft is taking away your games. DEY TUK UR GMZ!

funny how you call me a child and should stop posting, yet you said earlier that you were done talking with me but just keep on quoting me.

OT: states like new mexico, mississippi, arkansas, south carolina, indiana, kentucky... they are all in the 60% range that have internet in households. again, its a generalization that kids in these households that dont have internet are starving. are there kids out there starving with no internet access, obviously there are, but you cant lump in everyone in that group for the sake of your argument.

 

[io]

The gamesharing thing and the idea i'm talking about are two different things. MS did confirm that it would be tied to the first console and the gamertag its activated on. Basically, it's treated like digital things are now on xbox 360. Last week, my brother used my profile to buy state of decay on his xbox...and now we basically both have a copy. This works for XBLA games, Games on Demand, online passes, etc. Its a good way to get a CAG price, without having to wait for a price drop. For xbox one, this will work for both digital and physical games.

Well, yeah, sure I do this all the time since we have 2 360's in the house. I buy all my content on the one my son uses more often. Then we can play together - we've done this with Minecraft for example.

But how do you know it will be the same way on the One? Unless they confirmed that somewhere I wouldn't assume it would be at all the same since the entire procedure is changing with respect to game licensing, etc. In fact, I seem to remember them earlier saying that only one person can play "shared" games at a time which would preclude both of you being able to play on two systems at the same time. I figured they were replacing the current system with the "10 shares" thing. I have a feeling none of this will be entirely clear until the system is released and people actually put it through all the different scenarios.

 

[renique46]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=cLmKpV0i8t4

 

[n8rockerasu]

I'm out but I just wanted to drop this off on my way off this thread lol.

Xbox One and PS4: Two peas in an E3 pod

Geez, that article was horribly written by someone who clearly has no idea what the important issues are. He addresses the used games and always online issues with one sentence, and then continues talking about how the X1 and PS4 are "the same". Yes, it's not the option of sharing used games that's the point. It's that they can't differentiate themselves from each other. Right... What a toolbag.

 

[Killbomb]

 "You can always play your games, and any one of your family members can be playing from your shared library at a given time."

This is the one line from MS' licensing page that really needs clarification. Does it mean that the original owner can play along with a "family member" on your shared list at any one time or just one person at a time in total? Playing at the same time as somebody else seems too good to be true.

 

[kayne2000]

i dont know why anybody is under some false idea that sony isnt going to copy microsoft. for starters sony does nothing but copy microsoft and nintendo console ideas. in fact i dont think they have an original idea when it comes to console making.

secondly originally sony said they would have a DRM system in place. suddenly at E3 they change their minds. then a day later ign released an article for what its worth stating sony had again changed their minds. furthermore there is a ton of money behind the microsoft DRM system(EA,ubisoft,even freaking  gamestop of all places, activision). you cannot tell me sony is not on some level somewhere in on this.

this is more than likely politics 101. person A states something the crowd hates. person B sees this but is all for this crowd hating idea so person B states they are against it. 6-12 months later person B rides the hate that person A received and gets elected. by this point person B is now free to do that very same thing and you will get people that 

1. ignore the hypocrisy

2. wont care because their person won....similar to the my party is always better than your party and facts be damned attitude a lot of people have

3. person B got away with the same thing they condemned person A for.

sony is just taking good PR for this. but in due time sony will implement their own DRM under the guise of publishers choice. and later a forced universal system like microsoft which at the very least their system will prevent mass chaos and streamline it. sony will do the same thing for the same reason. lets not forget how many revisions the ps3 had. sony is not above creating great features then mysteriously killing them. microsoft is just taking the bullet for this but they are all in on it. sony has flip flopped on this issue. there is no reason to think they wont be all for DRM too much money is backing this.

the only possible thing i see microsoft maybe changing is the get online every 24 hours part and thats a maybe. but truth be told these two systems lose a lot of their fun without the internet so.

 

[Hodaka]

Live is down for me right now, just a good reminder what the future holds.

that don't mean everyone is im playing online right now

i love how people every time live or psn goes down they blame it on the company servers and never think it's their internet

Cause I'm on the internet right now dipshit.

Which means absolutely nothing.

Someone needs to learn about DNS routes and why just because I can go here, I cant go there.

but in the end, does it really matter if your Xbone requires authentication and can't reach the servers, so you can't play? It can be Microsoft's problem or it can be somewhere else, but the end result is that you can't play anything (which IS Microsoft's fault).

 

[io]

Kayne2000:  You can think what you want but everything I've read says Sony had no plans for DRM for the PS4.  Yes, a while back they patented some things for disc-based keys or something, but they decided not to implement it.  And didn't it come out the other day that even the publishers were not aware of the full details of MS's DRM plans?  So, yeah, sure, Sony was the lucky recipient of what MS did - but I don't think they planned it that way or backed off of any of their own plans (recently, anyway) to make that happen.

Hell, Sony was handed a gift.  Remember how they were able to slip in the PS+ required for online play tidbit without much fuss since they had the whole used game and price thing as cover.  That would have caused some amount of outrage had all these other issues not been at the forefront.

 

[dmaul1114]

There's one, and only one difference between Sony's DRM and Microsoft's. Sony, you can hand a game to a friend. Microsoft you can only do it once via a one time transfer after 30 days. They both sell used games, they both play used games.

That's not the only difference. Sony games can be sold or trades anywhere. So I can keep on selling them on amazon marketplace just like I have been.

Xbox One games can only be traded on at "participating retailers" which means I'd have no choice but to get screwed on crappy trade in values.

That's a big issue for someone like me who doesn't collect games and sells evey game after being done with it.

And stop with the silly parallels. Of course game DRM is a minor issue compared to real problems in life/the world. Doesn't mean that people can't bitch about erosion of their consumer rights in his area on a GAMING forum. If your so worried about starving kids etc. maybe you should spend your free time volunteering instead of defending a console maker on an online forum.

 

[JoelyPoley]

I just find it hilarious that people in this thread keep presenting their opinion as fact. 

 

[Killbomb]

Hell, Sony was handed a gift. Remember how they were able to slip in the PS+ required for online play tidbit without much fuss since they had the whole used game and price thing as cover. That would have caused some amount of outrage had all these other issues not been at the forefront.

I won't be surprised at all if the outrage still happens when the dust settles and it comes time for people to actually pay up for Plus to be able to play online.

 

[aptanor]

Hell, Sony was handed a gift. Remember how they were able to slip in the PS+ required for online play tidbit without much fuss since they had the whole used game and price thing as cover. That would have caused some amount of outrage had all these other issues not been at the forefront.

I won't be surprised at all if the outrage still happens when the dust settles and it comes time for people to actually pay up for Plus to be able to play online.

There will probably be some, but I doubt it will be too bad. PS+ has already demonstrated itself to be a worthwhile product by itself. I'd much rather be paying and get some games every month than just paying 'cause they said so. And yes I know, MS just added free games to live, but while I'm playing Xcom this month with my free month of PS+, you guys are going to be playing... Halo 3?

And Kayne, Sony never said, at any point, that there will be any DRM on the PS4, and considering how strongly they pushed that I don't think they could get away with backpeddaling on it now. The only thing they've said is the publishers can implent, by themselves, (ie not built into the consoles architecture at all) some sort of online pass to lock out the online MP of their games, but that there will be nothing to lock you out of the SP and no restrictions on the sale or trading of used games.

 

[Erad30]

Kayne2000: You can think what you want but everything I've read says Sony had no plans for DRM for the PS4. Yes, a while back they patented some things for disc-based keys or something, but they decided not to implement it. And didn't it come out the other day that even the publishers were not aware of the full details of MS's DRM plans? So, yeah, sure, Sony was the lucky recipient of what MS did - but I don't think they planned it that way or backed off of any of their own plans (recently, anyway) to make that happen.

Hell, Sony was handed a gift. Remember how they were able to slip in the PS+ required for online play tidbit without much fuss since they had the whole used game and price thing as cover. That would have caused some amount of outrage had all these other issues not been at the forefront.

No drm but Sony is the one who has a pantent where to say end an add for McDonalds you literally have to shout MCdonalds!" at the screen.I hope that never actually happens.

 

[ProppaT]

I don't know why the Internet thing is still a big debate.  Obviously, if you don't have high speed Internet or your Internet is shoddy, don't buy the X1.  It's nothing to get enraged about, it's just a different platform designed to function differently.  There are going to be a number of games that potentially are going to use cloud processing extensively...that's just the way it's built.

I, for one, am kinda excited to see how this whole Family Share program works.  All the negatives about the X1 aside, this is a huge positive.  If me, my brother, my cousins, and maybe a couple of our friends can each buy different games and then play our communal collection, this is big news.  It'll help the developers, as we'd buy new games instead of used and, at the same time, we personally wouldn't buy as many games, so we're saving money at the same time.  We mostly buy everything used, so we don't have to play titles day one...but we would buy exponentially more new titles on launch if we could do the divide and conquer approach.  Still waiting for clarification if only one person can play a title at a time or if it's a YOU (original purchaser) + 1 (of your "family") at a time.  The way it reads on Microsoft's site, it may very well be a You + 1 situation.

 

[kcobra22]

The gamesharing thing and the idea i'm talking about are two different things. MS did confirm that it would be tied to the first console and the gamertag its activated on. Basically, it's treated like digital things are now on xbox 360. Last week, my brother used my profile to buy state of decay on his xbox...and now we basically both have a copy. This works for XBLA games, Games on Demand, online passes, etc. Its a good way to get a CAG price, without having to wait for a price drop. For xbox one, this will work for both digital and physical games.

Well, yeah, sure I do this all the time since we have 2 360's in the house. I buy all my content on the one my son uses more often. Then we can play together - we've done this with Minecraft for example.

But how do you know it will be the same way on the One? Unless they confirmed that somewhere I wouldn't assume it would be at all the same since the entire procedure is changing with respect to game licensing, etc. In fact, I seem to remember them earlier saying that only one person can play "shared" games at a time which would preclude both of you being able to play on two systems at the same time. I figured they were replacing the current system with the "10 shares" thing. I have a feeling none of this will be entirely clear until the system is released and people actually put it through all the different scenarios.

It is already confirmed. That's why anyone can play on your own console, but you're still able to play at a friends house, because the license works the same way they do now. The only difference, is that if you're not on your primary console, I guess it would perform the checks every hour...which if it was a single player game and your internet was down, that could be a problem. But for an online game like BF or COD, you'd have to be connected anyways so there's no difference there.

Also, saw this on Reddit....interesting read:

http://pastebin.com/uCmdh9jB

 

[Viva Las Vegas]

Thanks for that pastebin link, real interesting. Can't wait to see how things play out. 

 

[cancerman1120]

If I knew that this would result in Steam like prices I would be all over it but having that trust is hard. The 24 hr check is the real hurdle to be honest. I understand why a "check" is needed under the used gamed system but in reality I would just prefer cheaper games, no used games and a Steam like system if this is the route we are going. This in between area is not to my liking. 

 

[Mako1215]

If I knew that this would result in Steam like prices I would be all over it but having that trust is hard. The 24 hr check is the real hurdle to be honest. I understand why a "check" is needed under the used gamed system but in reality I would just prefer cheaper games, no used games and a Steam like system if this is the route we are going. This in between area is not to my liking.

If Steam prices is what they are trying to achieve I understand it a little bit better, but why not speak out. Your trying to win people over. Saying $30-$35 digital release would be a HUGE step.

 

[esquire]

Also, I'd like to comment on this, cuz somehow I missed it:

"You're confusing DRM with copy-protection, they are very different things."

I'm actually not confusing them at all. DRM IS copy protection. Back in the 80's, we didn't have the name "DRM" for it. The entire purpose of having those red pinwheels that you could not photocopy and such was to protect the game developer from the consumer giving away his games to anyone else, because it was a physical media. I.E. I could give my copy of Bandit Kings of Ancient China (one of my favorite games) to 100 people, and we could all play it. Depriving Koei of 99 sales.

Today it's digital, so its online activation's and such, but the basis is exactly the same.. they dont want multiple people playing the same game.

This is called "First Generation DRM". FG-DRM seeks to prevent the copying of media, be it music, movies, video games, whatever. Sounds a awful lot like copy protection from the 80's dosent it? Because its the *same thing*.

While DRM may be a form of Copy Protection, Copy Protection is not necessarily DRM as it presently exists. Early forms of copy protection merely placed some files on the CD that either required the CD to be present in the CD drive, or attempted to prevent Joe Six-Pack from copying the CD. Additionally, non-online authenticating CD-Keys were used. While these forms prevent multiple copies of the same game being used, they did not restrict the end user from eventually selling or giving his copy to someone else like the current forms of DRM - Steam, etc. - are doing. That is the issue that we are talking about, and that is why so many people are angry. I hate it when people say PC users have been living with DRM for years. The DRM being implemented by Microsoft is like nothing else ever being implemented on consoles. There is no alternative to this DRM if you want to buy and play the XBone, PC users can pick and choose what games they will buy based upon the DRM being implemented. Apples and Oranges.

 

[WV Matsui]

Thanks for that pastebin link, real interesting. Can't wait to see how things play out.



Loved that link. Great info in there. I'm excited!

 

[esquire]

As for the DRM violating first sale it's unfortunately probably legal, all they have to do is call it a license then you are licensing a product instead of buying it and you lose all those rights. I hope it gets challenged in court as well though because it is still a semi grey area as far as I understand it especially since at least one court in the EU has ruled that licenses must be able to be resold, as I understand that ruling said a fee could be charged though but that would appear to make blocking the resale of a game completely not allowed in that jurisdiction.

This. Taken in conjunction with the always online requirement along with the cloud storage of content, you see where Microsoft is going. You are no longer buying physical games in stores, merely the right to play it under a license. This is already being done through digital downloads of PC games at retailers' websites - Best Buy, Gamestop, Gamefly, Amazon, etc., as well as in B&M stores such as Gamestop where you can buy game cards with codes for PC games. I imagine if Microsoft had its druthers it would eliminate media altogether.

Thanks for that pastebin link, real interesting. Can't wait to see how things play out.

The problem with that Microsoft guy comparing the XBone setup to Steam is that they are not the same. First, it is highly unlikely that full retail games (not Indie titles and traditional XBL titles) will sell for $5-$30. Take a look at retail games selling on XBL right now and old titles still sell for full retail price. Second, with Steam, you have an ability to play single player content offline. At this point, I don't think that is going to be the case with the XBone Third, PC users have the option to avoid Steam altogether. XBone users will not have that option. If you want to play a game on the XBone, you will be subjected to Microsoft's DRM.

 

[ProppaT]

As for the DRM violating first sale it's unfortunately probably legal, all they have to do is call it a license then you are licensing a product instead of buying it and you lose all those rights. I hope it gets challenged in court as well though because it is still a semi grey area as far as I understand it especially since at least one court in the EU has ruled that licenses must be able to be resold, as I understand that ruling said a fee could be charged though but that would appear to make blocking the resale of a game completely not allowed in that jurisdiction.

This. Taken in conjunction with the always online requirement along with the cloud storage of content, you see where Microsoft is going. You are no longer buying physical games in stores, merely the right to play it under a license. This is already being done through digital downloads of PC games at retailers' websites - Best Buy, Gamestop, Gamefly, Amazon, etc., as well as in B&M stores such as Gamestop where you can buy game cards with codes for PC games. I imagine if Microsoft had its druthers it would eliminate media altogether.

Thanks for that pastebin link, real interesting. Can't wait to see how things play out.

The problem with that Microsoft guy comparing the XBone setup to Steam is that they are not the same. First, it is highly unlikely that full retail games (not Indie titles and traditional XBL titles) will sell for $5-$30. Take a look at retail games selling on XBL right now and old titles still sell for full retail price. Second, with Steam, you have an ability to play single player content offline. At this point, I don't think that is going to be the case with the XBone Third, PC users have the option to avoid Steam altogether. XBone users will not have that option. If you want to play a game on the XBone, you will be subjected to Microsoft's DRM.

The real test, and what's yet to be seen, is if publishers will have free reign over their pricing in X1's digital store. If they make it as easy to change prices as it is with Steam, we very well may see this. Especially if Microsoft helps publishers advertise the sale. The thing of it is, none of us know how it's going to turn out until it hits the shelves. A Steam like pricing system might not happen near launch, but may end up being reactionary to poor sales.

Personally, I think Microsoft is missing a big chance to do PC/X1 cross platform purchasing. Buy it on the X1, get it on the PC and vice versa. There's really no reason not to, as the X1 is basically a PC with set specs running on a slimmed down version of Windows 8. The porting from one to the other is trivial and I'd be surprised if we didn't see some companies packing their X1 games with a PC download codes.

 

[twiceborn]

If I knew that this would result in Steam like prices I would be all over it but having that trust is hard. The 24 hr check is the real hurdle to be honest. I understand why a "check" is needed under the used gamed system but in reality I would just prefer cheaper games, no used games and a Steam like system if this is the route we are going. This in between area is not to my liking.

If Steam prices is what they are trying to achieve I understand it a little bit better, but why not speak out. Your trying to win people over. Saying $30-$35 digital release would be a HUGE step.

I don't think they're going to try to emulate Steam in the near future. In all the years they've run the Games for Windows Live store, not once have they ever had anything close to resembling a Steam sale.

Hell, all you gotta do is look at their current DD prices for the pc games they're selling to realize they are seriously out of touch with competitive pricing.

 

[Lost_In_Shadows]

Only exclusives I care for is Killer Instinct and Gears Of War. I assume there will be another Gears Of War.

I don't want one at release or anything. I'll wait a couple of years and I might buy one for the games I mentioned.

What would happen if it was like the 360 where it had a red ring or whatever? Since the games are tied to it wouldn't you have to buy the games again if your Xbox One died?
 

 

[WV Matsui]

Only exclusives I care for is Killer Instinct and Gears Of War. I assume there will be another Gears Of War.

I don't want one at release or anything. I'll wait a couple of years and I might buy one for the games I mentioned.

What would happen if it was like the 360 where it had a red ring or whatever? Since the games are tied to it wouldn't you have to buy the games again if your Xbox One died?



The games are tied to the cloud not the console

 

[xtreme_Zr2]

Not sure if posted yet...Microsoft ambushing Nintendo fans? I think Wombat's analogy of the ex-girlfriend is now substantiated.

http://www.gonintendo.com/?mode=viewstory&id=205110

 

[ProppaT]

Only exclusives I care for is Killer Instinct and Gears Of War. I assume there will be another Gears Of War.

I don't want one at release or anything. I'll wait a couple of years and I might buy one for the games I mentioned.

What would happen if it was like the 360 where it had a red ring or whatever? Since the games are tied to it wouldn't you have to buy the games again if your Xbox One died?

Hopefully Microsoft is smarter than Nintendo and will let you call in with the serial number of the console to deactivate it as your primary console, then let you register another console as your primary console...instead of having to send the console in like Nintendo has done with the Wii U.

 

[aptanor]

Well they're tied to your account as well.. I'd guess that you could redownload them on a new console, but them being available for everyone using the console it was registered on wouldn't work, which would suck.

I feel like a lot of this is stuff they're just coming up with now to save face. If this was always their plan (10 people using a single copy, everyone in your household using it, super cheap DL titles, etc.) then these would have been bulletpoints somewhere when they first discussed the DRM.

Not sure if posted yet...Microsoft ambushing Nintendo fans? I think Wombat's analogy of the ex-girlfriend is now substantiated.

http://www.gonintendo.com/?mode=viewstory&id=205110

That's friggin' hilarious