Xbox One on the way. DRM removed, more details to come.

[TimboSliceGB]

The thing is, I am NOT mad at Sony for trying for forward thinking and trying to do the vision that THEY had for the PS3. I don't want to live in RiPPn's world where it's the year 3000 and we have to cling to some archaic model just so he can trade in discs. I would rather go FORWARD with whatever it is the technology of the day is. Neither Microsoft, nor Sony, nor the developers want to do games this (the old) way anymore. You can adjust, you can give up gaming as a hobby, you can do whatever, but you ARE going to be dragged into the digital age.

I'm forward thinking, I'm fine with digital especially if it's cheaper than physical media. But I've seen how Microsoft handles digital, new release XBLA games started at 400 points ($5) and at this time now cost 1600 points ($20). 5 year old Games on Demand games are sitting at $30 and $40 that can be had in bargain bins for $5. With the bone you are giving them 95% control over pricing and taking away almost any chance at deals, 5% being retail copies may get a sale. This is not the CAG way.

If microsoft were forward thinking and not just trying to rape it's consumers they would have made an online store where users can buy, sell, trade, and auction licenses. But instead what they have presented us is complete restrictions to what is going to be a giant money pit that can be shut off at some point in the future.

with main stream used game selling not their anymore it's possible we see ms really do some great pricing on digital games. I'm not saying that will happen but it's possible now that used game market is pretty much in ms hands.

 

[RiPPn]

with main stream used game selling not their anymore it's possible we see ms really do some great pricing on digital games. I'm not saying that will happen but it's possible now that used game market is pretty much in ms hands.

This is just wishful thinking because Microsoft has never given any indication they will offer great deals, especially not steam calibre.

But if they do I'll definitely be the first to admit I was wrong.

 

[aptanor]

Timbo, I'm not trying to be a jerk, honest I'm not, but is English not your first language? I've had some issue before with some of your posts, but I can usually decipher them. That last one... I can't tell what you meant for the life of me.

 

[RiPPn]

Interesting article: Sony: 'of course' PS4 can do cloud computing

http://www.shacknews.com/article/79760/sony-of-course-ps4-can-do-cloud-computing

 

[aptanor]

I actually thought the article linked within that one, about why "cloud computing" is all a bunch of nonsense anyway, was more interesting :v

 

[TimboSliceGB]

so pretty much publishers could require you to be online to play a game on ps4

 

[Ashane]

Interesting article: Sony: 'of course' PS4 can do cloud computing

http://www.shacknews.com/article/79760/sony-of-course-ps4-can-do-cloud-computing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Rx2KiO2nYA&feature=youtu.be&t=1h24m32s

Your article points to a digital foundry article that point's doubts about what the cloud can do, and about if the PS4 does it or dosent do it. Considering the PC "Does the cloud" as well, and it's been said that the PC version of Titanfall will need to be re-engineered a bit to work with PC.. uh yeah

I see no reason for them to lie, since both PC and Xbox One are "Microsoft ran" in a sense.

/Edit/ That sounds a bit too.... happy happy... in my opinion. Let me clarify that I do tend to lean toward DF's article, in particular because of the fiasco giant lie that was Simcity. It's my only experience with "Cloud computing", which turned out to be utter bullshit.

 

[RiPPn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Rx2KiO2nYA&feature=youtu.be&t=1h24m32s

Your article points to a digital foundry article that point's doubts about what the cloud can do, and about if the PS4 does it or dosent do it. Considering the PC "Does the cloud" as well, and it's been said that the PC version of Titanfall will need to be re-engineered a bit to work with PC.. uh yeah

I see no reason for them to lie, since both PC and Xbox One are "Microsoft ran" in a sense.

"you couldn't make this game without having that sort of dedicated server support." what about PC? "We're engeneering it to work without this kind of dedicated server support." lol makes no sense which usually screams marketing.

so pretty much publishers could require you to be online to play a game on ps4

A game like Titanfall and Destiny are multiplayer only, so yes you will be required to be online.

 

[blueweltall]

What, no single player for both games?

 

[TimboSliceGB]

What, no single player for both games?

nope don't be shocked if alot more big name companys start making online only games this gen.

 

[spatenfloot]

sony spent millions upon millions making the blu ray format it could have been end of sony if blu ray failed. ms on other hand is doing the same thing in thinking drm is what in 3-4 years is what people will want in videogames, movies, other forms of media. sony did a gamble with creating blu ray and ms is doing the same with x1

I've been looking for a good DRM player but the cheapest one I can find is $500. Any suggestions?

 

[PenguinMaster]

people like rippen have no clue what type of world we live in this is not the 80,90's any more we are becoming all digital world like it or not. I think by the end of this up coming gen in say by 1920 all x1 and ps4 games will be 100 percent digital. Sooner or later 3rd party companys will see how much money they could save with out printing games on disc.

For thousands of years people have been able to freely buy and sell just about everything in existence, but we are expected to give up that right for a mild convenience? Everything becoming digital is only inevitable if people support it.

Additionally very few things sell better as downloads than physical at this point. iTunes is the biggest music seller, but all the retail stores combined make up more than twice as much sales as all the MP3 stores. Steam is the biggest seller of PC games, but console games on disc sell far better than any PC games. Most of the world (or even the USA) does not want all digital.

 

[DNukem170]

You can adjust, you can give up gaming as a hobby, you can do whatever, but you ARE going to be dragged into the digital age.

I will be long since dead and buried by time everything goes all-digital, so I won't be dragged.

EDIT: http://www.joystiq.com/2013/06/16/lewis-black-pokes-at-the-kinect-on-the-daily-show/

Lewis Black has found the only good thing Kinect is used for.

 

[KaneRobot]

Glad this apparently isn't true, but it's kind of sad I fully expected it to be.

 

[Hodaka]

You can adjust, you can give up gaming as a hobby, you can do whatever, but you ARE going to be dragged into the digital age.

I will be long since dead and buried by time everything goes all-digital, so I won't be dragged.

EDIT: http://www.joystiq.com/2013/06/16/lewis-black-pokes-at-the-kinect-on-the-daily-show/

Lewis Black has found the only good thing Kinect is used for.


lol,,

"When the Germans are calling your product a "twisted nightmare", you might want to consider taking another pass at it."

That's awesome! Thank you Lewis Black!

 

[dmaul1114]

Additionally very few things sell better as downloads than physical at this point. iTunes is the biggest music seller, but all the retail stores combined make up more than twice as much sales as all the MP3 stores. Steam is the biggest seller of PC games, but console games on disc sell far better than any PC games. Most of the world (or even the USA) does not want all digital.

Actually digital music sales surpassed CD sales for the first time in 2011.

http://money.cnn.com/2012/01/05/technology/digital_music_sales/index.htm

Though I agree that we won't be all digital for a long time as network infrastructure is still lacking even in the us. Much less outside of places like Europe, America/Canada, Japan etc.

But we'll definitely see more and more trending toward digital as people (especially younger generations that never had CDs, are growing uo streaming movies on Netflix or on demand rental services) etc are less attached to having physical media, or selling/trading games etc. , and the publishers, studios etc love it as it cuts down on used sales, lending, rentals etc. and saves them money from having to print and ship fewer discs and cases.

Iit can be a win-win (other than for people who collect physical media as a hobby) if done right. I had no problem jumping to mp3s and ebooks as the prices are mostly cheaper than their physical counterparts and I love the convenience. I'd have no problem doing the same with games if prices were like Steam or better. As long as costs were down to about what I pay after selling games after beating them today I'd be all for the conenience of going digital. But I have no confidence well see that type of digital game pricing from MS or Sony given how download game prices have been on the marketplace and PSN.

What, no single player for both games?

I don't know about Titanfall, but Destiny I think is like Borderlands, from the little I've seen (so I could be wrong). Better online with friends, but can play in a lobby by yourself if you want.

There was no games benefit at all for Blu-Ray, and this generation proved it. It was a total anti-consumer move that benefited Sony and Sony only, and caused the console to be priced considerably higher. If I had a nickel for every time I heard, "Sony is FORCING me to buy a Blu-Ray player" or "I don't want to watch movies on my video game console!" I could retire rich and not have to be arguing with a bunch of 16 year olds.

Sorry, but Sony is not a hero of gaming.

Of course. And I told Sony to off and didn't buy a ps3 until 2012 after several price drops as I wasn't paying $500+ for a console. Especially when Bluray wasn't useful to me the first couple years it was out because I didn't have an HDTV yet. And that was despite the fact the PS2 was my most played console the poor gen, and that the PS1 was neck and neck with the N64 two gens before.

Thos time it's MS who's doing things I deem to be very anti consumer and has a console more expensive than gaming is worth to me. do I'm telling them to off like I did Sony last gen despite the fact that the 360 was by far my most played console this time around.

None of these console makers are heroes. They're all big, evil, greedy corporations I begrudgingly give my money two because I enjoy playing games. Thus I chose which ones to begrudgingly give meh money to based on a combination of games, pricing, features and what they're doing that I don't like each generation with little thought or loyalty to the past consoles

 

[BigPopov]

It's easy to say "but they did something to deserve it" when you've never been through the situation.

I was one of the earlier accounts to been hit with the FIFA/Madden scam. Someone would get access to your account, buy "card packs" and give them to thier account. If you had an active CC, they would use it. (luckily I didn't, they used my 2k points)

Called MS, "we'll look into it." In the meantime, my account was locked. No online gaming, no access to my online games, had to use a second account so no access to my savegames.

It took 3 weeks for them to figure out that someone hacked my account (which originated from another country.) They refunded the points, but they also banned my account. Yes, they fing banned me for someone stealing my account.

Here's the problem,

There is no customer support division for this type of issue. If you call and are banned, for whatever reason, "we'll put in a support ticket" and it takes weeks to resolve. Once it's resolved, they don't notify you. Either it's fixed or it isn't.

Remember, no access to your stuff at this time.

Want an update? Hold on, we'll get back to you in a couple weeks.

I had to fight, kick and scream, going through multiple channels, including numerous ignored posts on the forums for the customer support forums.

It ended up taking me over 2 months to get this shit straight, and if I wasn't technically inclined there's no way I would've been able to figure out half the stuff I explained/did. And this wasn't even during Christmas season when call volume is at an all time high.

You try calling MS with an account problem and see how fun it is. It's a joke.

(BTW, to the "you deserved it" goons, this wasn't even from lax security on my account, it was a hack/exploit originating from an attack on EAs servers that let them get the database for live accounts)

 

[PenguinMaster]

Actually digital music sales surpassed CD sales for the first time in 2011.

http://money.cnn.com/2012/01/05/technology/digital_music_sales/index.htm

I'm curious to know where that number comes from. In terms of album sales physical is higher than digital.

http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20130104005149/en/Nielsen-Company-Billboard%E2%80%99s-2012-Music-Industry-Report

I wouldn't be surprised if each song is counted as a separate sale in the article you quoted (when not bought as an album) so that would skew the numbers drastically towards digital sales. But MP3s are a completely different situation then games and movies anyway because they are mostly DRM-free. There is added convenience for the customer without nearly as much added control by the companies.

 

[itachiitachi]

sony spent millions upon millions making the blu ray format it could have been end of sony if blu ray failed. ms on other hand is doing the same thing in thinking drm is what in 3-4 years is what people will want in videogames, movies, other forms of media. sony did a gamble with creating blu ray and ms is doing the same with x1

Do you know what DRM is? Nobody wants it in any of their media.

no one wants drm but steam rules pc gaming and itunes is the biggest music seller in the world and people are starting to buy digital copys of movies more and more. Yep NO ONE wants drm in their media i and you tell me i don't know anything.

people like rippen have no clue what type of world we live in this is not the 80,90's any more we are becoming all digital world like it or not. I think by the end of this up coming gen in say by 1920 all x1 and ps4 games will be 100 percent digital. Sooner or later 3rd party companys will see how much money they could save with out printing games on disc.

PC gamers don't want DRM either look at Assins's creed, D3 and sim 5. People are willing to accept vary minimual DRM in exchange for something.

In exchange for DRM that is so weak it's cracked day one and so univasive I can have a device offline for months and still play the games, we get games at 30%-90% off, automatic updates, an esiear way to transfer game libraries and the ability to have them on multiple machines, free access to a service comparable to xbox live and probably a bunch of other stuff I'm forgetting.

on the 361 in exchange for heavy DRM you get the middle finger from microsoft.

If you don't know the differnece from not wanting DRM and excepting DRM in exchange for something, then you may very well know nothing.

 

[Blaster man]

I don't think we will see all digital consoles..,for all consoles. Nintendo or some other company will come out with a console that has physical media without DRM. How do I know this? Because there will always be a niche market for it and someone will fill that niche and make money there. That console may not get as many games but there will be something out there. Even if all the US has high speed Internet in 20 years (not likely), other parts of the world will not and you're crazy if you think there won't be a hughe market for games without DRM in China and India.

 

[DNukem170]

It's hard for me to believe the entire world will be all-digital anytime soon when a significant chunk of the world still uses floppy disks.

 

[esquire]

The fact is that while the X1 may be fun to play or may have some good games on it, the PS4 is going to be the more purchased, better liked product. People have been griping about X1 details as they have been trickling out and now that we basically know most of what there is to know about both consoles, the choice is pretty clear for most people.

Uh, that is most definitely not "a fact".

What I am starting to think is a fact though, is that most of these gripers have to be 16 year olds. Because you would definitely have to have been around 9 to think that Sony is some kind of hero of gaming, power to the people and all that crap. The same Sony who came out with a $600 console, was universally loathed for forcing Blu-Ray down our throats so they could win a format war that gamers didn't care about, and told you to "work two jobs" so you can afford it. But now Sony is the hero of gaming. LOL!

That was years ago. Opinions change based on what companies do. 6 months ago I could have gone on and on about how much I like MS as a company, now after the decisions they have made about the XBone I can go on and on about how MS can go themselves. Also I don't think anyone thinks Sony is some kind of gamer godsend or anything. People are just happy that they are actually willing to make decisions based on what their customers want. People don't want all this ridiculous bullshit surrounding the XBone but MS is basically saying to bad just accept it. While Sony is making decisions that we like.

Yes, so that completely wipes out everything they've done in the past... they could never change again. And it also means, using your six months interval, that it's totally impossible that given another six months the pendulum couldn't swing and Sony couldn't be making decisions you don't happen to like.

I'll say it again: Sony is not a hero of gaming. They also would like nothing more than to can the used market and lock consoles down, and in fact they still can at any time by shifting (gradually or not) to digital. As a matter of fact, many analysts are fairly certain that was what Sony planned to do all along, only to chicken out at the end.

Pretty much yes it does wipe out everything from the past. Those are issues that no longer have any sway in purchasing decisions. They were PS3 purchasing issues. I'll say it again no one is saying Sony is a hero. Of course they would love to cut out the used game market but they have chosen not to, that is what matters, not what their plans were but what they do in the end. They can shift to digital all they want but they will always still be selling discs this console cycle, discs with no fees attached.

Agreed. Using Kazuya's logic, no one would be purchasing the XBone because of Microsoft's debacle with the RROD on the XB360, and how they refused to originally replace people's consoles. Every generation is a clean slate for each company.

 

[DestroVega]

It's going to be funny when you people that say this DRM policy doesn't affect you buy your Xbox One with Ryse, get it home, realize what a suckfest that game is, and are stuck with it until they enable used game resell. Or because it sucks so bad it gets blocked from used game resell, gifting, or family sharing and you're stuck with a $60 turd. Good times.

No consumer with any sense about them would support these policies no matter what unproven benefits or games Microsoft might be promising.

For those claiming that it's just CAG and other small gaming bubbles that are upset about this, take a look at this poll done by amazon on facebook. It only allows 1 vote per person and was aimed at Amazon customers, not gaming enthusiasts:

https://www.facebook.com/AmazonVideoGames/app_153839431317646

PS4 38984 to Xbox One 2162

95% of people voted for the PS4. Sorry it's not just Sony fans that feel this way.

Yeah I fully expect the PS4 to outsell the new Xbox 19:1

The fact is that while the X1 may be fun to play or may have some good games on it, the PS4 is going to be the more purchased, better liked product. People have been griping about X1 details as they have been trickling out and now that we basically know most of what there is to know about both consoles, the choice is pretty clear for most people.

Uh, that is most definitely not "a fact".

What I am starting to think is a fact though, is that most of these gripers have to be 16 year olds. Because you would definitely have to have been around 9 to think that Sony is some kind of hero of gaming, power to the people and all that crap. The same Sony who came out with a $600 console, was universally loathed for forcing Blu-Ray down our throats so they could win a format war that gamers didn't care about, and told you to "work two jobs" so you can afford it. But now Sony is the hero of gaming. LOL!

So true.

 

[esquire]

I'll give you that one. I can obviously not guarantee they won't go digital only. I don't personally see it happening but this is just an opinion obviously. I don't think it makes sense financially on consoles. Many gamers still want physical discs and they will lose out on sales releasing digital only.

Especially parents buying games for their children, and people buying games for birthday and christmas presents.

Did I ever say it didn't cause a firestorm back in the day? You were using blu ray as a comparison to what Microsoft is doing, they aren't even close. Sony's machine was worth the money as it had advanced technology in 60gb drive, blu ray, built in wifi, better processor, memory card reader, etc. The machine was worth the money, it was just out of peoples range for a game machine and Sony was arrogant saying you will get a second job to pay for it.

Stand alone blu ray players were around a grand at the time of the PS3 launch, more proof you have no idea what you're talking about

Plus, considering that the PS3 could be upgraded to a 3D player made it worth even more, at least to me. I don't know of many standard BD players back then or even now that are capable of this function.

what will you do when all ps4 games are digital

The point that I and many others have made is that we know things are going digital eventually - so why put us through this ambiguous crap that MS is doing now? Why not make it like the PS4 where there are discs you can play anywhere/any time and then digital versions that are tied to your account and allow some sharing? Why force anything different on physical copies? They will eventually be phased out whether it is later in this generation or in the next one. There was no need for all this extra DRM in the mean time. Like I said before, offer incentives to go digital, not disincentives to buy your console. If MS provided some awesome gamesharing option (10 random Internet people!) for their digital copies then people would switch to the digital versions willingly. They could have done that while also allowing offline, disc play for the physical copies.

Exactly. If digital copies are going to save developers/publishers money in the form of lower production costs and loss prevention from piracy, and wait for it, why not allow the consumer to make the decision to go digital by offering digital copies at a lower price than the physical copies?

 

[dmaul1114]

Actually digital music sales surpassed CD sales for the first time in 2011.
http://money.cnn.com/2012/01/05/technology/digital_music_sales/index.htm

I'm curious to know where that number comes from. In terms of album sales physical is higher than digital.

http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20130104005149/en/Nielsen-Company-Billboard’s-2012-Music-Industry-Report

I wouldn't be surprised if each song is counted as a separate sale in the article you quoted (when not bought as an album) so that would skew the numbers drastically towards digital sales. But MP3s are a completely different situation then games and movies anyway because they are mostly DRM-free. There is added convenience for the customer without nearly as much added control by the companies.

Probably true on the sales figures.

DRM wise, the only thing that bothers me about it with games is not being able to sell them how I want to recoup some costs. I don't replay games or collect games so the reselling is just a hassle I go through to get decent out of pocket costs and not have games I'll never touch again cluttering uo the condo. So if digital games were enoug cheaper than physical ones to mostly make up for not being able to resell them if jump in with both feet just like I have with ebooks. Movies I'm more resistant to as that's the one thing I do collect, but I'd be tempted to stop if one day everything was on a streaming service for a reasonable price as I don't fond my self researching movies from my collection very often anymore.

So it's really just price for me. Digital goods are worth less to me than physical goods, so they need to be cheaper.

 

[Mako1215]

[quote name="Mr. Las Vegas" post="10837681" timestamp="1371479249"][quote name="thenutman69321" post="10837070" timestamp="1371441105"]I'll give you that one. I can obviously not guarantee they won't go digital only. I don't personally see it happening but this is just an opinion obviously. I don't think it makes sense financially on consoles. Many gamers still want physical discs and they will lose out on sales releasing digital only.



[/quote]

Especially parents buying games for their children, and people buying games for birthday and christmas presents.

[quote name="RiPPn" post="10837178" timestamp="1371444203"]Did I ever say it didn't cause a firestorm back in the day? You were using blu ray as a comparison to what Microsoft is doing, they aren't even close. Sony's machine was worth the money as it had advanced technology in 60gb drive, blu ray, built in wifi, better processor, memory card reader, etc. The machine was worth the money, it was just out of peoples range for a game machine and Sony was arrogant saying you will get a second job to pay for it.[/quote]
[quote name="RiPPn" post="10837189" timestamp="1371444624"]Stand alone blu ray players were around a grand at the time of the PS3 launch, more proof you have no idea what you're talking about
[/quote]

Plus, considering that the PS3 could be upgraded to a 3D player made it worth even more, at least to me. I don't know of many standard BD players back then or even now that are capable of this function.
[quote name="io" post="10837277" timestamp="1371448052"][quote name="TimboSliceGB" post="10837257" timestamp="1371447390"]what will you do when all ps4 games are digital

[/quote]

The point that I and many others have made is that we know things are going digital eventually - so why put us through this ambiguous crap that MS is doing now? Why not make it like the PS4 where there are discs you can play anywhere/any time and then digital versions that are tied to your account and allow some sharing? Why force anything different on physical copies? They will eventually be phased out whether it is later in this generation or in the next one. There was no need for all this extra DRM in the mean time. Like I said before, offer incentives to go digital, not disincentives to buy your console. If MS provided some awesome gamesharing option (10 random Internet people!) for their digital copies then people would switch to the digital versions willingly. They could have done that while also allowing offline, disc play for the physical copies.
[/quote]

Exactly. If digital copies are going to save developers/publishers money in the form of lower production costs and loss prevention from piracy, and wait for it, why not allow the consumer to make the decision to go digital by offering digital copies at a lower price than the physical copies?[/quote]

Why don't they not ship as many games and cut down on the packaging being shipped. They could cut costs.

 

[kcobra22]

Does anyone else feel like Sony forcing ps+ for online play is a big deal? For one, just like how we'll get people buying the x1 without knowing new policies, you'll get people buying a ps4 and not realizing they need ps+ now (anyone have a stat for this? Like, number of people with ps+ sub currently?). But I think the biggest thing is ...the ps3 was playing from behind this gen, and they had free online play. Ps+ convinced people to start paying for a service and in exchange they got deals/games. They had to do as much as possible so that people would WANT to spend money. Now that ps+ is required...there's no obligation to give you great games. They could slowly phase that out until you're basically just paying for online pay, but you'd still pay because thats the only option.

From what i've read so far...when the ps4 launches people will be given a free copy of Drive Club...but its a stripped down ps+ version that doesn't include everything (but still has online play i believe). They also said that for the first three months of the ps4 launch, you'd get one free indie title a month.

 

[gotdott]

people also tend to forget how sony forced their cinavia update down our throats

 

[brennok]

I am curious what is everyone's magic price where digital is ok? What is your price where you can accept the benefits and not care about the losses? And actually if you would give two prices. The first would be the traditional digital model where nothing is transferable, and the second what you would pay for the things Microsoft is saying they will offer. Would you pay more for those features?

I know I tend to apply a 50% cut to anything digital because I lose the benefits so the item is worth less to me and I consider it disposable.

For example new music I won't pay more than $5 an album on MP3 since I can usually buy the CD for $10-$11.

For ebooks, I wouldn't buy them unless they were $1-$3 for new paperbacks since I buy those for $7 or less.

For Steam games I don't even consider it unless it is under $29.99. 

For a console though, I would probably pay $29.99 for digital triple A titles with no other options. I wouldn't pay extra to be able to transfer the license since I feel I should be able to do that already. Now if they offered it where the person paid $5-$10 on their side to transfer it I would probably be ok with it, just don't build it into the cost of the game.

 

[4thHorseman]

Does anyone else feel like Sony forcing ps+ for online play is a big deal? For one, just like how we'll get people buying the x1 without knowing new policies, you'll get people buying a ps4 and not realizing they need ps+ now (anyone have a stat for this? Like, number of people with ps+ sub currently?). But I think the biggest thing is ...the ps3 was playing from behind this gen, and they had free online play. Ps+ convinced people to start paying for a service and in exchange they got deals/games. They had to do as much as possible so that people would WANT to spend money. Now that ps+ is required...there's no obligation to give you great games. They could slowly phase that out until you're basically just paying for online pay, but you'd still pay because thats the only option.

From what i've read so far...when the ps4 launches people will be given a free copy of Drive Club...but its a stripped down ps+ version that doesn't include everything (but still has online play i believe). They also said that for the first three months of the ps4 launch, you'd get one free indie title a month.

It's disappointing, but not unexpected. When PS+ was rumored, everyone expected it to be implemented on the PS3 as soon as it came out. Sony held off and are doing it for the PS4, so at least people were somewhat right. My brother-in-law is kinda upset about it because he really likes the free aspect of PS3, and feels that this is pure money grab and the promised improvement/additions to the PSN service for PS4 is a scapegoat.

I feel this is the best thing Sony can do if they want to improve on their lackluster service, and PS+ (IMO) has easily better selling points than Live.

 

[dmaul1114]

I am curious what is everyone's magic price where digital is ok? What is your price where you can accept the benefits and not care about the losses? And actually if you would give two prices. The first would be the traditional digital model where nothing is transferable, and the second what you would pay for the things Microsoft is saying they will offer. Would you pay more for those features?

I'd pay $40-45 for the rare games I buy day one now. $20 or under for everything else.

Ebooks I only care that its less than the print version as I was just donating paperbacks rather than selling anyway.

Album pricing is fine for me is its rare for anything I want to be more than $5-8 which is much cheaper than I used to pay for CDs, and lots of stuff is even cheaper than that. I also never sold/traded cds. Games are unique for me in that front as that's the only thing I regular buy and sell when done.

 

[TimboSliceGB]

you can't compare how much system games out sell pc games like digital games on steam. Pc gaming is a whole diff market with amount of people that has pc's that can run todays games. In my mind if you have a company that would sell a legit gaming pc without building one for around 500 alot of people would jump ship and become pc gamers seeing most games can use xbox controller.

 

[Hodaka]

I am curious what is everyone's magic price where digital is ok? What is your price where you can accept the benefits and not care about the losses? And actually if you would give two prices. The first would be the traditional digital model where nothing is transferable, and the second what you would pay for the things Microsoft is saying they will offer. Would you pay more for those features?

I know I tend to apply a 50% cut to anything digital because I lose the benefits so the item is worth less to me and I consider it disposable.

For example new music I won't pay more than $5 an album on MP3 since I can usually buy the CD for $10-$11.

For ebooks, I wouldn't buy them unless they were $1-$3 for new paperbacks since I buy those for $7 or less.

For Steam games I don't even consider it unless it is under $29.99.

For a console though, I would probably pay $29.99 for digital triple A titles with no other options. I wouldn't pay extra to be able to transfer the license since I feel I should be able to do that already. Now if they offered it where the person paid $5-$10 on their side to transfer it I would probably be ok with it, just don't build it into the cost of the game.

Since it sometimes literally takes days to download on my 1Mbit connection, I'm going to have to say they'd have to be sub $20. Heck, Fable 3 was free recently and I almost gave up and cancelled the download because it was taking so long.

 

[TimboSliceGB]

i could not imaging living with a 1 mbit per second i got the highest i cna get with uverse 24 mb down and still think it's too slow

 

[Ashane]

(BTW, to the "you deserved it" goons, this wasn't even from lax security on my account, it was a hack/exploit originating from an attack on EAs servers that let them get the database for live accounts)

The only information I can possibly find about any sort of hack on EA's servers is Bioware losing old NWN Data.

As a avid player of Fifa, and a primary live account holder as my main email..... um, what?

There were a ton of rumors back then about such a hack, because of the sheer number of hacked accounts. However, the reality of it was passwords were weak, most people used the same passwords across multiple sites, or even worse linked their Facebook/Twitter/etc accounts together so it was relatively easy to guess someone's security questions.

The reason they only targeted Fifa should have been obvious. It wasnt a EA problem. It was that Fifa UTC's were going for a hefty premium. You could make a shit load of money.

 

[Ashane]

Additionally very few things sell better as downloads than physical at this point. iTunes is the biggest music seller, but all the retail stores combined make up more than twice as much sales as all the MP3 stores. Steam is the biggest seller of PC games, but console games on disc sell far better than any PC games. Most of the world (or even the USA) does not want all digital.

If you look at the yearly report, more and more are actually going digital.

http://www.theesa.com/facts/pdfs/esa_ef_2013.pdf

If you'd like previous years, to compare the gains, simply change the year number on the PDF.

You'll see that in 2013, 40% of sales are digital. 60% psychical. The growth rate of digital sales is phenomenal, with a average of 7% per year since 2008. This year is predicted to be the first year that digital goods will actually overtake traditional sales as the highest grossing average by the ESA.

 

[htz]

I like how Major Nelson keeps on avoiding the DRM questions by talking about the xbox one being built for the future(plus using the same hand gesture in 2 interviews so far) but wouldn't elaborate on what that means.

 

[Hodaka]

i could not imaging living with a 1 mbit per second i got the highest i cna get with uverse 24 mb down and still think it's too slow

Yeah, well, before line of site wireless became available to me, I was sharing out my modem across my router to all of the wireless devices in my house.. yes, it was painful. So 1Mbit is a huge increase for me.

That said, I'm not ready for an all digital era until faster Internet is available.

 

[Mako1215]

i could not imaging living with a 1 mbit per second i got the highest i cna get with uverse 24 mb down and still think it's too slow


Uverse is 36 as the highest. Unless it's not available in your area. I just need to hardwired my house .

 

[cgarb84]

I have 4Mbit Down and it sucks ass.  People who have fast Internet seem to think everyone in this country (US) has access to it which is laughable.  Microsoft will learn his the hard way this gen, the word will spread when casual Wal-Mart buyers walk in and buy an X1 and then realize when they get home they can't do shit with it.  Trust me this is going to happen way more than people estimate.  

 

[TooPoor]

Interesting article: Sony: 'of course' PS4 can do cloud computing

http://www.shacknews.com/article/79760/sony-of-course-ps4-can-do-cloud-computing

Hopefully people are not buying this marketing crap.

Although cloud storage have been proven to be successful, cloud computing has not even matured in academia, let alone deployment in industry for latency sensitive applications like gaming. Furthermore, preliminary e-science runs on the Azure have found a 20% failure rate in the cloud VMs and link failures. Running the same task on the same type of VM has also seen as much as 300% performance variation, making optimized workload scheduling (which is already an NP hard problem) an impossible task. Unless they addressed all these issue last year, I don't see how they are going to do "cloud gaming" where some computing tasks are uploaded on the cloud for performance benefits.

 

[Blaster man]

I have 4Mbit Down and it sucks ass. People who have fast Internet seem to think everyone in this country (US) has access to it which is laughable. Microsoft will learn his the hard way this gen, the word will spread when casual Wal-Mart buyers walk in and buy an X1 and then realize when they get home they can't do shit with it. Trust me this is going to happen way more than people estimate.

I actually think the majority of American's aren't underestimating it. I think the folks in Redmond are. They're out of touch with their customers.

 

[TimboSliceGB]

i could not imaging living with a 1 mbit per second i got the highest i cna get with uverse 24 mb down and still think it's too slow

Uverse is 36 as the highest. Unless it's not available in your area. I just need to hardwired my house .

highest here is 24 sadly but i will not go back to cable and lose my fios connection

I have 4Mbit Down and it sucks ass. People who have fast Internet seem to think everyone in this country (US) has access to it which is laughable. Microsoft will learn his the hard way this gen, the word will spread when casual Wal-Mart buyers walk in and buy an X1 and then realize when they get home they can't do shit with it. Trust me this is going to happen way more than people estimate.

you don't need a amazing internet speed to connect to their servers if you play mp fine on ps3 and 360 you will be fine connecting to servers. you could even connect to their servers with the lowest dlc out their

 

[kill3r7]

You can't tell the market how they are supposed to think or react to a product, you're supposed to develop a product that people want.

"A lot of times, people don't know what they want until you show it to them." - Steve Jobs

Steve Jobs thought that innovation came from pushing boundaries and thinking outside the norm. He did not believe in using focus groups, as a measure of future success, and he most definitely did not believe in giving people what they wanted. He trusted in his engineers and designers to come up with innovative products which for the most part people ended up loving and supporting no matter how reluctant they were at first.

In making this comment it's not my intent to compare the X1 to the iPod or iPhone but to point out that innovation requires forward thinking which inevitably lead to change. It's human nature to be reluctant to change but change is not always a bad thing. If you don't like what the X1 has to offer then don't buy it.

Also, by all means feel free to share your opinion here and with your friends. Just understand that it is merely an opinion and not fact. With that said, you are correct in stating that the market will decide whether the X1 succeeds or fails.

 

[Blaster man]

I am curious what is everyone's magic price where digital is ok? What is your price where you can accept the benefits and not care about the losses? And actually if you would give two prices. The first would be the traditional digital model where nothing is transferable, and the second what you would pay for the things Microsoft is saying they will offer. Would you pay more for those features?

I know I tend to apply a 50% cut to anything digital because I lose the benefits so the item is worth less to me and I consider it disposable.
For example new music I won't pay more than $5 an album on MP3 since I can usually buy the CD for $10-$11.
For ebooks, I wouldn't buy them unless they were $1-$3 for new paperbacks since I buy those for $7 or less.
For Steam games I don't even consider it unless it is under $29.99.

For a console though, I would probably pay $29.99 for digital triple A titles with no other options. I wouldn't pay extra to be able to transfer the license since I feel I should be able to do that already. Now if they offered it where the person paid $5-$10 on their side to transfer it I would probably be ok with it, just don't build it into the cost of the game.

Since it sometimes literally takes days to download on my 1Mbit connection, I'm going to have to say they'd have to be sub $20. Heck, Fable 3 was free recently and I almost gave up and cancelled the download because it was taking so long.

I'd you're using wifi you should buy a really long LAN cable from Amazon and hook it up for large downloads.

 

[kill3r7]

I have 4Mbit Down and it sucks ass. People who have fast Internet seem to think everyone in this country (US) has access to it which is laughable. Microsoft will learn his the hard way this gen, the word will spread when casual Wal-Mart buyers walk in and buy an X1 and then realize when they get home they can't do shit with it. Trust me this is going to happen way more than people estimate.

I actually think the majority of American's aren't underestimating it. I think the folks in Redmond are. They're out of touch with their customers.

I don't understand this logic. IMO this is the equivalent of saying that Crytek should have never made the original Crysis because most people could not play it on their PCs, or that Ferrari should stop making luxury cars. Why should we stifle innovation to appease the masses? If M$ wants to make a console that truly pushes the boundaries of gaming and cloud computing they are entitled to it. If the market cannot support such a console they'll face music but I applaud them for trying to innovate and create something new.

 

[cgarb84]

i could not imaging living with a 1 mbit per second i got the highest i cna get with uverse 24 mb down and still think it's too slow

Uverse is 36 as the highest. Unless it's not available in your area. I just need to hardwired my house .

highest here is 24 sadly but i will not go back to cable and lose my fios connection

I have 4Mbit Down and it sucks ass. People who have fast Internet seem to think everyone in this country (US) has access to it which is laughable. Microsoft will learn his the hard way this gen, the word will spread when casual Wal-Mart buyers walk in and buy an X1 and then realize when they get home they can't do shit with it. Trust me this is going to happen way more than people estimate.

you don't need a amazing internet speed to connect to their servers if you play mp fine on ps3 and 360 you will be fine connecting to servers. you could even connect to their servers with the lowest dlc out their

Yeah for checking in you don't need an amazing connection I agree, but what about the countless games that are going to use cloud computing? There is no way in hell a crappy DSL or satellite connection will be able to handle that load. And it seems like a lot of the X1 games announced so far are all about the extra power of the cloud.....that will tax the hell out of Internet connections, there's just no other way around it.

 

[TimboSliceGB]

i could not imaging living with a 1 mbit per second i got the highest i cna get with uverse 24 mb down and still think it's too slow

Uverse is 36 as the highest. Unless it's not available in your area. I just need to hardwired my house .

highest here is 24 sadly but i will not go back to cable and lose my fios connection

I have 4Mbit Down and it sucks ass. People who have fast Internet seem to think everyone in this country (US) has access to it which is laughable. Microsoft will learn his the hard way this gen, the word will spread when casual Wal-Mart buyers walk in and buy an X1 and then realize when they get home they can't do shit with it. Trust me this is going to happen way more than people estimate.

you don't need a amazing internet speed to connect to their servers if you play mp fine on ps3 and 360 you will be fine connecting to servers. you could even connect to their servers with the lowest dlc out their

Yeah for checking in you don't need an amazing connection I agree, but what about the countless games that are going to use cloud computing? There is no way in hell a crappy DSL or satellite connection will be able to handle that load. And it seems like a lot of the X1 games announced so far are all about the extra power of the cloud.....that will tax the hell out of Internet connections, there's just no other way around it.

im sure you will be able to play those cloud games offline but if connected you will have the cloud a.i. but really non of knows how all this cloud stuff will work so can't really judge anything on that.

 

[cgarb84]

I have 4Mbit Down and it sucks ass. People who have fast Internet seem to think everyone in this country (US) has access to it which is laughable. Microsoft will learn his the hard way this gen, the word will spread when casual Wal-Mart buyers walk in and buy an X1 and then realize when they get home they can't do shit with it. Trust me this is going to happen way more than people estimate.

I actually think the majority of American's aren't underestimating it. I think the folks in Redmond are. They're out of touch with their customers.

I don't understand this logic. IMO this is the equivalent of saying that Crytek should have never made the original Crysis because most people could not play it on their PCs, or that Ferrari should stop making luxury cars. Why should we stifle innovation to appease the masses? If M$ wants to make a console that truly pushes the boundaries of gaming and cloud computing they are entitled to it. If the market cannot support such a console they'll face music but I applaud them for trying to innovate and create something new.

Um that's not the same thing at all actually. Almost anyone in the US can buy the pc parts necessary to play a game like Crysis if they really want to. I can't just pick up my house and move it to a place where I can get faster Internet. To improve your Internet speeds most people would have to actually move which is an entire lifestyle/life change. Those really aren't the same things at all lol.

Oh and Microsoft can't afford to push the boundaries like that because if they do and the public pushes against it and goes over to Sony then Microsoft has lost this generation and by a lot....Microsoft isn't exactly Apple at this point. Between Windows 8 and the X1 Microsoft has very little room for future -ups.

 

[TimboSliceGB]

I have 4Mbit Down and it sucks ass. People who have fast Internet seem to think everyone in this country (US) has access to it which is laughable. Microsoft will learn his the hard way this gen, the word will spread when casual Wal-Mart buyers walk in and buy an X1 and then realize when they get home they can't do shit with it. Trust me this is going to happen way more than people estimate.

I actually think the majority of American's aren't underestimating it. I think the folks in Redmond are. They're out of touch with their customers.

I don't understand this logic. IMO this is the equivalent of saying that Crytek should have never made the original Crysis because most people could not play it on their PCs, or that Ferrari should stop making luxury cars. Why should we stifle innovation to appease the masses? If M$ wants to make a console that truly pushes the boundaries of gaming and cloud computing they are entitled to it. If the market cannot support such a console they'll face music but I applaud them for trying to innovate and create something new.

Um that's not the same thing at all actually. Almost anyone in the US can buy the pc parts necessary to play a game like Crysis if they really want to. I can't just pick up my house and move it to a place where I can get faster Internet. To improve your Internet speeds most people would have to actually move which is an entire lifestyle/life change. Those really aren't the same things at all lol.

Oh and Microsoft can't afford to push the boundaries like that because if they do and the public pushes against it and goes over to Sony then Microsoft has lost this generation and by a lot....Microsoft isn't exactly Apple at this point. Between Windows 8 and the X1 Microsoft has very little room for future -ups.

windows 8 is not awful at all only reason people hate windows 8 because they took away start menu (which is coming back as a option in sp 1) i love windows it runs very very smooth the apps for it are pretty amazing and newer games run better on windows 8 then windows 7. If you think xbox will be a fail i will lol at you. The type of audiance ms is going for with x1 don't care about drm seeing they don't know what the heck it is and the no game shareing and selling/renting games.

omg i HATE windows 8 because they took out hte start menu even if the new start menu is way cooler and more easy to find things I HATE CHANGE IN LIFE.