YOU Balance the Budget (Cali)

OK. I'm going to try give a good reason to keep weed illegal.

Ready?

The public at large does not need another avenue to cloud their perception of reality.

Our lords and masters are driving us faster and faster down the road of ruin.

As a whole or as individuals, we need to keep our eyes open for ways to slow down the deterioration of our rights and futures or maybe even reverse the process.
 
Dude, all of our rights are an illusion as it is. The Constistitution can be re-interpreted to mean anything these days. You guys keep pretending like the Constitution is set in stone and the government at large (not just the Obama Administration but the entire government) isn't already too big to fail.

So why not legalize weed? And if you think it clouds reality like the TV commercials, then I have a bridge for you to buy. As soon as I remember where it is.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']OK. I'm going to try give a good reason to keep weed illegal.
[...]
As a whole or as individuals, we need to keep our eyes open for ways to slow down the deterioration of our rights and futures or maybe even reverse the process.[/QUOTE]

Shouldn't it already be my right to do what I want to my body? Perhaps legalizing weed is the first step to reversing that process.

Mind you, I have no desire to smoke or sell marijuana, but I'm all for making it (and Industrial Hemp) legal.
 
[quote name='depascal22']Dude, all of our rights are an illusion as it is. The Constistitution can be re-interpreted to mean anything these days. You guys keep pretending like the Constitution is set in stone and the government at large (not just the Obama Administration but the entire government) isn't already too big to fail.

So why not legalize weed? And if you think it clouds reality like the TV commercials, then I have a bridge for you to buy. As soon as I remember where it is.[/QUOTE]

My rights aren't an illusion. The perception that I can exercise my rights is the illusion. We both know our government is a police state. If anybody gets in its way, they get squashed.

Weed? It is just another version of bread and circuses. Does it have same stupefying effect as American Idol, the Rush Limbaugh show, Rachel Maddow, the Final Four tournament or any of the other of millions of distractions generated by government? They're in the same river and pushing us in the same direction.
 
When you take into consideration how many different interpretations there are of the christian bible, it doesn't surprise me that there are multiple interpretations of our constitution. Only the people who wrote it really know what they meant anyway, that goes for any document.
 
Wasn't it (or the Declaration of Independence) written on hemp anyway? I just can't believe that we glorify alcohol and vilify marijuana. Hell, tobacco is still legal.

I just don't like the idea that we should ban something just because it allows people to tune out the world. Like you said, there are millions of things out there that will people use to tune out but weed can't be one of them? Why not allow the natural herb?
 
[quote name='depascal22']Wasn't it (or the Declaration of Independence) written on hemp anyway? I just can't believe that we glorify alcohol and vilify marijuana. Hell, tobacco is still legal.

I just don't like the idea that we should ban something just because it allows people to tune out the world. Like you said, there are millions of things out there that will people use to tune out but weed can't be one of them? Why not allow the natural herb?[/QUOTE]

Let's try this a different way: Legalize weed, but don't tax it.

...

Let's try one of my award-winning analogies: Playing the part of the government will be wife. Playing the part of the economy will be my house and possessions. Playing the part of the American people will be me. Playing the part of future American generations will be my children.

Here's the scene ...

I came home from work. As I walked through the door, my wife lights the gasoline she had poured through the house. My children, in the next room, are bound and gagged. My wife asks, "Would you like a blowjob?"

...

I have a lot of weird economic thought fragments regarding weed legalization. Such as "drug bubble", "Malthusian economics" or "treating symptoms instead of disease". Maybe I'll have enough time or desire to form a coherent thought later.
 
[quote name='depascal22']Wasn't it (or the Declaration of Independence) written on hemp anyway? [/QUOTE]

good news, you can buy hemp paper.
 
California needs to cut their fat, not find new ways to grab money from its citizens. You lower taxes and that will help entice employers to set up shop in your state. You take care of unemployment with that and then your tax revenues will go up naturally because you have more taxable income from citizens.
 
[quote name='Paco']We can at least say with pride that we at least aren't Rhode Island, Illinois, Detroit, and France.[/QUOTE]

Scorpio: By the way Homer, what's your least favorite country, Italy or France?
Homer: Uh... France.
Scorpio: Nobody ever says Italy.
 
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']Repeal prop 13 which locks personal property taxes at 1%, and problem solved....once they also fix their constitution so it cant be amended by simple majority in a ballot initiative.[/QUOTE]

Tax revenue isn't California's problem. Their problem is they've massively increased their budget over just the last few years. Arnold's done a great job doing the opposite of what he promised when running for governor, and the people of the state keep voting for idiotic ballot initiatives that cause the state to bleed more money than ever. So looking at things that way, I guess if they keep voting for more spending, maybe more taxes is fair, at least so the rest of us in this country aren't made to bail them out.
 
How many politicians really follow through with what they say they're going to do and it works out well?

I know saying cut the budget sounds simple, but you know, they know which of their pet projects aren't working (hint: every single one), and those have to go.
 
I've just read that if the California budget had been allowed simply to grow in relation to population and inflation, right now they would have a $15 billion SURPLUS. Amazing.
 
There are easier ways to balance the budget than opening Pandora's Boxes that you won't ever be able to shut when you do things like legalizing drugs and prostitution. Some of the stuff on here is silly and obvious like cutting drug rehab for criminals, deporting illegal immigrants in jail, and granting early release to non-violent offenders. In fact eliminating a jail sentence for certain non-violent crimes has always made sense to me. Drug users, people caught with child porn (Just viewing it, not making it), etc. can all be handled much better and much easier by being placed in a group home setting where they will received counseling. No need to waste taxpayers dollars by having these people spend the rest of their lives in prison.

Other things however are more difficult. Yeah, cutting welfare benefits and health care subsidies for the poor may seem like a good idea, but then most of those people will probably turn to crime and the hospitals will just have the burden of having to take care of these people when they show up at the emergency room without money or insurance. Then you have to deal with Hospitals / Emergency rooms shutting down, etc. etc. Maybe rather than dolling out money directly to the needy, they can provide funding to hospitals to be used specifically to provide basic care for people that show up at the emergency room without the means to pay. Crime however is a whole different situation that you'll want to avoid whatever way you can.

I'm not sure what the answer is, but it's Arnold's last term in office, so he can make the tough decisions and not have to answer for them.
 
I miss the California of my youth. There were Mexicans, gangs and drugs, but it seemed like a great place to live.

Now, it seems like a temperate New Jersey.
 
Cut the state's spending for illegal immigrants and their children. It's estimated that we spend over $10 billion a year (2004 numbers so it could be much higher now) on schooling, health care and incarceration for illegals. Even if they all began to pay taxes, we'd still have a net loss of over $8 billion. In these times of hardship I could really care less about compassion. We need to help American citizens, not tax them to death and In the long run, we can do a lot more good in the world with a healthy economy.
 
I would say legalize all drugs (hell, most of our food has harmful chemicals in them, sprayed on them or in the feed with little or no disclosure) and tax them at a very high rate.
But also treat drug sales as a state-owned monopoly. California would be the only legal distributor and seller. And there would be strict regulations on where they may be used. Charge a license for anyone who wishes to purchase drugs- and make it one drug per license, so if you want to use multiple drugs, you need to purchase multiple licenses.

Take those resources being used to fight the drug war and turn that into seed money.

The revenue would be a gravy train.
 
[quote name='vherub']I would say legalize all drugs (hell, most of our food has harmful chemicals in them, sprayed on them or in the feed with little or no disclosure) and tax them at a very high rate.
But also treat drug sales as a state-owned monopoly. California would be the only legal distributor and seller. And there would be strict regulations on where they may be used. Charge a license for anyone who wishes to purchase drugs- and make it one drug per license, so if you want to use multiple drugs, you need to purchase multiple licenses.

Take those resources being used to fight the drug war and turn that into seed money.

The revenue would be a gravy train.[/QUOTE]

i fully support legalizing all drugs, and I think the state control thing is a good idea (Washington does that with liquor, hard alcohol is only sold in state owned Liquor & Wine stores, works well & the state profits)...

people are gonna do drugs, no way around it, and there are countless benefits of controlling it. half of all prisoners are in for drug related charges... and half of those are just for marijuana. it's insane. even disregarding taxation, the amount we'd save on corrections is enormous. plus, i wouldn't have to worry about my weed being sprayed with glass or asbestos or anything like that...
 
The "legalize all drugs" argument is absolutely ludicrous. You want your Marijuana? Fine, whatever, but there is ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY no reason at all to legalize Cocaine, or Heroin, or any other addictive, mind altering drugs. These drugs aren't just something you fool around with to have fun, they are destructive even beyond simply causing harm to the user. The people who will use these drugs will not be able to afford to feed their addiction, and will turn to crime to do so. Then we'll have to spend even more of our tax dollars to house these people in jail, pay for their rehabilitation, and all the associated health problems that will come as a result. I just don't understand how any sane person could make such an argument.
 
[quote name='spmahn']The "legalize all drugs" argument is absolutely ludicrous. You want your Marijuana? Fine, whatever, but there is ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY no reason at all to legalize Cocaine, or Heroin, or any other addictive, mind altering drugs. These drugs aren't just something you fool around with to have fun, they are destructive even beyond simply causing harm to the user. The people who will use these drugs will not be able to afford to feed their addiction, and will turn to crime to do so. Then we'll have to spend even more of our tax dollars to house these people in jail, pay for their rehabilitation, and all the associated health problems that will come as a result. I just don't understand how any sane person could make such an argument.[/QUOTE]

Your scenario happens without cocaine or heroin being legal in the United States, and there is nothing to indicate that this would increase with the legalization of such drugs.

I don't want the government telling me what I can put inside of me, thank you very much.
 
[quote name='spmahn']The "legalize all drugs" argument is absolutely ludicrous. You want your Marijuana? Fine, whatever, but there is ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY no reason at all to legalize Cocaine, or Heroin, or any other addictive, mind altering drugs. These drugs aren't just something you fool around with to have fun, they are destructive even beyond simply causing harm to the user. The people who will use these drugs will not be able to afford to feed their addiction, and will turn to crime to do so. Then we'll have to spend even more of our tax dollars to house these people in jail, pay for their rehabilitation, and all the associated health problems that will come as a result. I just don't understand how any sane person could make such an argument.[/QUOTE]
What you talk about is going to happen whether or not drugs are legal, however if drugs were legal, we would largely get rid of all the gangs, that make a large amount of their money off illegal drugs. Plus, when was the last time you heard of anyone crashing their car when they were high? Then, when was the last time you heard of someone crashing their car when drunk?
 
[quote name='fullmetalfan720']What you talk about is going to happen whether or not drugs are legal, however if drugs were legal, we would largely get rid of all the gangs, that make a large amount of their money off illegal drugs. Plus, when was the last time you heard of anyone crashing their car when they were high? Then, when was the last time you heard of someone crashing their car when drunk?[/QUOTE]

I knew we could agree on something :)

I was going to add an edit to my post about alcohol, however this covers it pretty well.
 
[quote name='fullmetalfan720']What you talk about is going to happen whether or not drugs are legal, however if drugs were legal, we would largely get rid of all the gangs, that make a large amount of their money off illegal drugs. Plus, when was the last time you heard of anyone crashing their car when they were high? Then, when was the last time you heard of someone crashing their car when drunk?[/QUOTE]

No, if you legalize the the problem will be much much worse. Despite what the media fear mongers tell you, it's not as easy as walking down to your local corner project and ringing the bell for service. You have to know how to find them, and have to know who to get them from, and this prevents a large percentage of people who may otherwise do drugs from doing so, because they are too stupid or too lazy to do that kind of work.

If you legalize drugs, you also eliminate the largest barrier which stands in the way of people doing them, fear of getting caught and going to prison. Yes, it's rather silly to waste our money incarcerating drug users, but if that's what it takes to scare people away from doing them, then so be it. Legalizing drugs is like taking medication to fix your headache, but then getting cancer from the medication you were taking for your headaches. Yeah, getting rid of the illegal drug trade and some gang violence would be great, but not at the expense of causing a whole other set of problems that'll end up being even worse.
 
[quote name='spmahn']No, if you legalize the the problem will be much much worse. Despite what the media fear mongers tell you, it's not as easy as walking down to your local corner project and ringing the bell for service. You have to know how to find them, and have to know who to get them from, and this prevents a large percentage of people who may otherwise do drugs from doing so, because they are too stupid or too lazy to do that kind of work. [/quote]

Silly. The people who want to do drugs will do drugs. I probably know someone who knows someone, who could hook me up if I desired. In fact, I can think of two to three direct sources I could go to this instance, and I've never even done so before.

If you legalize drugs, you also eliminate the largest barrier which stands in the way of people doing them, fear of getting caught and going to prison. Yes, it's rather silly to waste our money incarcerating drug users, but if that's what it takes to scare people away from doing them, then so be it. Legalizing drugs is like taking medication to fix your headache, but then getting cancer from the medication you were taking for your headaches. Yeah, getting rid of the illegal drug trade and some gang violence would be great, but not at the expense of causing a whole other set of problems that'll end up being even worse.
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The largest barrier between people and drugs is not because they are illegal. I don't know where you're getting your information (Fox news, perhaps?), but it is severely flawed. How many people do you know who are just sittin' around waitin' for cocaine to be legalized so that they can do a few lines? No, the law is not the Number 1 deterrence of drug use. Most people simply choose not to do drugs (yes, you have the choice).

Your analogy is also weak, and, I think if you'll read it again, you might agree (privately). You also seriously underestimate the value of eliminating the monopoly that international mobs have over certain illegal drugs, domestic gang violence, the money we would save from not criminalizing victimless crime offenders, the money we would save from the War on Drugs and the wild goose chases that ensue from it, and so on.

All that said, your argument should have started with "We don't have a competent FDA, so how can we legalize drugs?" and I might be agreeing with you at this point.
 
Silly. The people who want to do drugs will do drugs. I probably know someone who knows someone, who could hook me up if I desired. In fact, I can think of two to three direct sources I could go to this instance, and I've never even done so before.
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Maybe I am a naive suburban white male who has no experience in what it's like to live in the inner city, but I've never done drugs, I don't know anyone who has done drugs (and I'm talking about anything harder than Marijuana here), and I wouldn't even know where to begin to go about getting them if I wanted to. Maybe I'm sheltered, but something tells me that there very well might be a lot of white collar middle to upper class people out there that don't do drugs not because they don't want to, but because they don't have access to them.

I'm not saying that all these people, or any of them for that matter, will instantly start doing drugs when they became available, but it's certainly a possibility that some might.

and what of those people who would turn to hard drugs to try and escape their problems the way others might turn to alcohol or cigarettes or marijuana? The harder drugs out there cannot considered to be in the same category as these things. People can drink the occasional beer and not become reliant upon alcohol to live (Although some argue that alcohol dependence is a real disease for many people, but that's another argument), and while cigarettes may be addictive for many, the withdrawal symptoms aren't terribly severe when compared to harder drugs.

The hard drugs however are in a world all their own. They will alter the chemistry in your brain, and cause you to become completely dependent upon them to continue living. You can cut out your cigarettes with a patch and a 12 step program, you can't go to an AA Meeting to fix your heroin or cocaine addiction.

We've already got skyrocketing health costs in this country due to fattys who can't stop eating and get diabetes and heart disease, and superficial people who can't stay out of the sunlight and end up with cancer. Do we really need to start footing the bill for meth addicts to check into the Betty Ford Clinic too?
 
[quote name='Msut77']Cheaper than prison.[/QUOTE]

The cheapest route would be cutting off the supply so people can't get addicted in the first place, but maybe I'm too much of an idealist.

My ideal solution is punish the drug dealers severely, they are the main problem. Force the users into rehab that they will have to pay back on their dime one way or another.

The solution is not to legalize everything, or to punish everyone. The drug problem is a system, and requires systems thinking to resolve. A book I would recommend to everyone is this:

http://www.amazon.com/Fifth-Discipline-Practice-Learning-Organization/dp/0385260954

It may be a tad dry for a lot of people, but it will really improve your critical thinking and problems solving skills. The book details how just about all problems can be laid out in a repetitive loop in which one problems provides feedback causing something a different response, etc. until it loops back into the original problem. In the book, there are several archetypes which describe common situations, and the problems with the common ways we deal with them. In systems thinking, Legalizing drugs would likely be in the fixes that fail archetype, which is laid out here:

http://www.systems-thinking.org/arch/arch.htm#archff

Yes, in the short term, legalizing drugs would ease the burden on our prisons, and would slow down the illegal drug trade and gang problems, but it would have long term unintended consequences. You would end up with a lot of people who are desperately addicted to horrible substances that are poisoning their body. These people, whose judgment is already completely impaired by these substances, require more of these substances to continue living, and will go through any measure possible to ensure they continue to have a steady supply. Now all of a sudden you've got more crime, more poverty, and more homelessness.

I do not buy the argument that "People who do drugs will do them anyways, and people won't just magically start smoking crack just because it's legal", that is complete and utter bullshit. There are 45 million adult smokers in this country, 15% of our population that takes these little sticks of poison and breathe them into their mouths, without any rational reason as to why they are doing so. People do not need a reason to do these things, they simply do it because they can. Sure, smoking's not so bad, it's pretty gross, but as long as you stay away from it, the effects it has on non-smokers is minimal at best. Now imagine 45 million cocaine users in this country? 45 Million Heroin Addicts? People are not rational, many are stupid, and we do not need to give stupid people the ability to make more stupid decisions.

You want to alleviate the drug problem? Get people to stop using them in the first place!!!!!! If there's no demand, then there is no need for a supply!

But perhaps I'm living in a fantasy world....
 
[quote name='Msut77']Cheaper than prison.[/QUOTE]

So when the number of meth addicts that need treatment rise tenfold as hard time is phased out as a deterring threat/consequence, how exactly does it remain cheaper?
 
Also, why do people think that something being illegal doesn't discourage it? Surely everyone can accept that there is at least some deterrent effect. Sure, not everybody is going to be deterred, but at least some people don't do drugs simply because they don't want to run afoul of the law. Saying otherwise is illogical on its face, regardless of what you think on legalization.
 
[quote name='spmahn']The cheapest route would be cutting off the supply so people can't get addicted in the first place, but maybe I'm too much of an idealist.[/quote]

That isn't cheap and is more or less the status quo.

Law Enforcement doesn't work for free and the money spent on the all-to-literal war on drugs isn't chump change either.

My ideal solution is punish the drug dealers severely, they are the main problem.
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Prison terms are already pretty lengthy, what else did you have in mind?

Force the users into rehab that they will have to pay back on their dime one way or another.
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Interesting that you think rehab is something people should "pay back" but prison is apparently on the house.

The solution is not to legalize everything, or to punish everyone. The drug problem is a system, and requires systems thinking to resolve. A book I would recommend to everyone is this:
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I'm not the one with the problem in critical thinking judging from our past discussions. The book seems somewhat interesting but it has to do with business organizations which in my opinion is less applicable than you seem to think. I would have gone with a historical parallel like prohibition.

Yes, in the short term, legalizing drugs would ease the burden on our prisons, and would slow down the illegal drug trade and gang problems, but it would have long term unintended consequences. You would end up with a lot of people who are desperately addicted to horrible substances that are poisoning their body. These people, whose judgment is already completely impaired by these substances, require more of these substances to continue living, and will go through any measure possible to ensure they continue to have a steady supply. Now all of a sudden you've got more crime, more poverty, and more homelessness.
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I think the word you are looking for is decriminalization which is a bit different.

Everything you described happens in societies that have draconian drug laws, strict laws don't change the physiology of drugs nor the depths addicts will go to, you are missing a few steps.

I do not buy the argument that "People who do drugs will do them anyways, and people won't just magically start smoking crack just because it's legal", that is complete and utter bullshit. There are 45 million adult smokers in this country, 15% of our population that takes these little sticks of poison and breathe them into their mouths, without any rational reason as to why they are doing so. People do not need a reason to do these things, they simply do it because they can. Sure, smoking's not so bad, it's pretty gross, but as long as you stay away from it, the effects it has on non-smokers is minimal at best. Now imagine 45 million cocaine users in this country? 45 Million Heroin Addicts? People are not rational, many are stupid, and we do not need to give stupid people the ability to make more stupid decisions.
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Maybe it was my fault for being a bit imprecise but it seems as if you would rather tilt at strawmen. Portugal decriminalized all drugs in 2001, it has so far been a success.

You want to alleviate the drug problem? Get people to stop using them in the first place!!!!!! If there's no demand, then there is no need for a supply!

But perhaps I'm living in a fantasy world....
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I don't know which emoticon would be most appropriate.
 
Eh, Msut77 already cut the argument apart.

If you legalize drugs, people who become addicted to drugs or damaged through the use of drugs get to ...

SUE!

International drug cartels would rather deal with John Q. Police Officer than John Q. Trial Lawyer.
 
Yay! Let's shift the cost of stupid people who can't seem to control their own actions from law enforcement to the judicial system! Yee-Haw!
 
[quote name='UncleBob']Yay! Let's shift the cost of stupid people who can't seem to control their own actions from law enforcement to the judicial system! Yee-Haw![/QUOTE]

We've done it with tobacco and bars.
 
[quote name='Capitalizt']Finally an idea we can all get behind.[/QUOTE]


nah, that's gay marriage!
 
Maybe it was my fault for being a bit imprecise but it seems as if you would rather tilt at strawmen. Portugal decriminalized all drugs in 2001, it has so far been a success.
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Portugal also has a population less than 1/3rd the size of California alone, so I don't see how that's an apt comparison. Portugal didn't decriminalize drugs in the way many advocates here want it done. They still prosecute the dealers and producers, it's just the users that use in moderation that don't go to prison, and get forced rehab instead. The government didn't get involved with drug dealing themselves the way people here seem to want them to do it, they are actively trying to get people to stop doing them in the first place, which is what I've been saying all along. Unfortunately I feel our population is too large, and drug use is too pervasive for that to work in this country,
 
[quote name='spmahn']Portugal also has a population less than 1/3rd the size of California alone, so I don't see how that's an apt comparison.[/quote]

I don't see how population is relevant here.

Portugal didn't decriminalize drugs in the way many advocates here want it done. They still prosecute the dealers and producers, it's just the users that use in moderation that don't go to prison, and get forced rehab instead.
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I wasn't saying we shouldn't go after the major dealers and importers so much as I was pointing out that it isn't cheap to do so.

The government didn't get involved with drug dealing themselves the way people here seem to want them to do it, they are actively trying to get people to stop doing them in the first place, which is what I've been saying all along.
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Mostly it was Marijuana people are talking about the government selling, you even make the distinction between that and other drugs. As for what kogg was saying, states sell lotto tickets and then place a little sticker offering treatment on the machines....

Unfortunately I feel our population is too large, and drug use is too pervasive for that to work in this country
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Maybe if rehab was "free" the way you think prison is we might have a fighting chance of making it work.
 
:oops: I actually agree with Spmham on something.
There really should never be any reason to legalize anything harder than weed.

However, a problem is that people do abuse prescription drugs. :( ...and I don't think there's really anyway out of that.
 
[quote name='spmahn']Portugal also has a population less than 1/3rd the size of California alone, so I don't see how that's an apt comparison. Portugal didn't decriminalize drugs in the way many advocates here want it done. They still prosecute the dealers and producers, it's just the users that use in moderation that don't go to prison, and get forced rehab instead. The government didn't get involved with drug dealing themselves the way people here seem to want them to do it, they are actively trying to get people to stop doing them in the first place, which is what I've been saying all along. Unfortunately I feel our population is too large, and drug use is too pervasive for that to work in this country,[/QUOTE]

Do you believe Portugal's method has worked?
 
Mostly it was Marijuana people are talking about the government selling, you even make the distinction between that and other drugs. As for what kogg was saying, states sell lotto tickets and then place a little sticker offering treatment on the machines....
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You again cannot make the comparison between marijuana or gambling and hard drugs. Lotto tickets and Weed do not alter the physical chemistry in your brain the way Heroin and Cocaine does.

Maybe if rehab was "free" the way you think prison is we might have a fighting chance of making it work.
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So essentially you'd be shifting the burden away from prisons and toward drug rehab facilities. The only way drug rehab would work in the first place is if it took place in a closely monitored on site living situation, essentially a minimum security prison, so I really don't see the difference there.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']Do you believe Portugal's method has worked?[/QUOTE]

I believe it has worked for them, but probably wouldn't work for us since it would have to be applied on a much larger scale, and we don't have the money, or resources to make it work.
 
[quote name='spmahn']You again cannot make the comparison between marijuana or gambling and hard drugs. Lotto tickets and Weed do not alter the physical chemistry in your brain the way Heroin and Cocaine does.[/quote]

Gambling is an addiction, it certainly does cause a reaction in the brain and it ruins lives. You absolutely can make a comparison.

So essentially you'd be shifting the burden away from prisons and toward drug rehab facilities.
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You say that as if it is a bad thing.

The only way drug rehab would work in the first place is if it took place in a closely monitored on site living situation, essentially a minimum security prison, so I really don't see the difference there.
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I sincerely doubt you have the bona fides to say "only" and yes there is quite a difference either way.

I believe it has worked for them, but probably wouldn't work for us since it would have to be applied on a much larger scale, and we don't have the money, or resources to make it work.
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Per Capita and about any you wish to measure it we are richer than Portugal. Also, as many times as this needs to be repeated to you... the status quo isn't free. It is in fact quite expensive.
 
You say that as if it is a bad thing.
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I never said it was a bad thing, it's not really a good thing or a bad thing, it's a neutral thing. We've already got the prison system in place, and it does an adequate job as it is, why spend further money establishing government run drug rehab facilities that would essentially be redundant?

Gambling is an addiction, it certainly does cause a reaction in the brain and it ruins lives. You absolutely can make a comparison.
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If the two things are comparable, then why is it that you can go to any church basement on a Tuesday night and get help overcoming your Gambling addiction, while cocaine and heroin addicts require medical treatment as well as cognitive therapy to overcome their problem? Gambling is a problem for many people, but nothing about it changes the physical chemistry of your brain the way drugs do. Some people have an addictive personality and get addicted to gambling, but the gambling did not cause the addictive personality in the first place. Not everyone becomes addicted to gambling on the basis of playing the Powerball every once in a while. Everyone who uses heroin or cocaine even on a irregular basis WILL become addicted to it, because of the effects it will have on your body.

Per Capita and about any you wish to measure it we are richer than Portugal. Also, as many times as this needs to be repeated to you... the status quo isn't free. It is in fact quite expensive.
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Where did I ever say the current system was "free"? I don't remember having said that, however I don't see how drug rehab would be any less expensive than prison, given the process that it takes to get people off of hard drugs.
 
[quote name='spmahn']We've already got the prison system in place, and it does an adequate job as it is, why spend further money establishing government run drug rehab facilities that would essentially be redundant?[/quote]

Because it isn't doing an adequate job and as I pointed out in the first post of our exchange rehab is much cheaper than prison.

Where did I ever say the current system was "free"? I don't remember having said that...
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You certainly pretend as if it is.

however I don't see how drug rehab would be any less expensive than prison, given the process that it takes to get people off of hard drugs.
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I have yet to see a single study saying prison is cheaper than rehab.

If the two things are comparable...
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And they are.
 
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