The Declining Value Of Your College Degree...

For any hard pressed college grad who can't find a job, I can find you 20 more high school grads who can't get a job.

There is nothing to that article really other than inflation adjustments and a bad luck story by one employee.

What else needs be said other than "A degree is a vital stepping stone to even be considered". Yes, this is obvious. Everything else is out of the hands of the degree itself and in the hands of character, determination, skill, luck, perseverance...all that stuff that isn't printed on a degree and handed to you.

Most college graduates just think a job is owed to them when they graduate, and they don't bother even trying to actually look for one.

I agree. There is nothing more to a degree other than it saying "This student passed all the requirements put upon them to graduate". It does not say "Free ticket to retirement"

All it means is that you have a piece of paper which now gets you considered for your character/skills at a job.

I was told by a friend the only reason you get a degree is because you aren't smart enough to do that job so you get the degree to say you can...

I personally think it goes by the "who you know not what you know" degree.

I think it is without a doubt, a collection of both.

No big company will hire you because you say you know what you are doing.
No big company will hire you just because you have a degree, USUALLY.

Most stories you hear of, you have to know somebody, but also you have to walk to walk (get the damn degree).

Defaintly not just knowing someone will land you the REAL jobs in life.

graduated with a ba in history (yeah yeah, insert liberal arts joke here) in dec 2005. cant say my two jobs since than have required anything close to a BA. though it did get me a higher payrate at my current job.

I got my BA last August and re-enrolled in January after struggling to find a job. Four year degrees aren't worth crap nowadays, but I intend to have my professional certificate by the end of the year.

Welcome to the new private sector.

[quote name='QiG']I got my BA last August and re-enrolled in January after struggling to find a job. Four year degrees aren't worth crap nowadays, but I intend to have my professional certificate by the end of the year.[/quote]

They are if you get the right type of degree. Accounting at the moment is an excellent example...

I had several job offers (full-time, very good companies) by the time I was a Senior in college and I A) didn't "know people" and B) didn't go to some fancy-pants name-dropping school

[quote name='Wlogan31']They are if you get the right type of degree. Accounting at the moment is an excellent example...

I had several job offers (full-time, very good companies) by the time I was a Senior in college and I A) didn't "know people" and B) didn't go to some fancy-pants name-dropping school[/QUOTE]

This. Accounting ftw.

And my brother was just suggesting that I look up information on colleges, said that he thought I should take a higher math just to look good for colleges, and that he didn't want me to end up living at home in my 30s.

I have no idea how I want to make a living, and it seems like it's getting harder and harder for me to decide what to do. I don't want to go through the motions only to find that all the work was for nothing, but I also don't want to be a jobless loser. I guess it is mostly luck.

It really depends on the type of degree. But yes, it sucks when you go to school for four years only to find out the job market has changed against your favor.

I know mine isn't worth shit (Interdisciplinary Studies; codeword for Liberal Arts), but I really have tried everything I have patience for and sucked at it, wasted so much money I can't afford to go anymore, and yet, I'm still not 'allowed' to quit school and move to siberia or somewhere where people will leave me the alone.

Goddamn, I hate college so much...

I never knew my college degree was supposed to come with a guarantee for a high paying job.

People kind of expect it seeing as how college is such a huge money and timesink.

[quote name='Dead of Knight']This. Accounting ftw.[/QUOTE]

Out of curiosity, are any accounting majors out there planning on going for their masters?

A lot of the firms that I've interviewed for ask me that question. My original plan was to go part-time while working but it seems like a lot of places want me to get my CPA before I work for them.

[quote name='jesta2817']Out of curiosity, are any accounting majors out there planning on going for their masters?

A lot of the firms that I've interviewed for ask me that question. My original plan was to go part-time while working but it seems like a lot of places want me to get my CPA before I work for them.[/QUOTE]

my gf is getting her masters in accountancy right now, and then her cpa. she has an accounting job for an electrocal company, which pays well and is very stable. but the oppertunies after she completes are 10 fold.

Having a four year college degree is merely a stepping stone, it doesn't guarantee you a high paying job or even a low paying job. Getting a job has a lot more to do with you and what you have to offer to the company as compared to your degree. You have to be able to sell yourself.

I was just reading this, beat me to posting it. I think one reason it may be hard for graduates to find jobs is because of the different ways that companies interview people. Some companies seem to care more about qualifications, while some seem to care more about their personal impression of a person. I guarantee that there have been people who got jobs that they weren't qualified for, because they were the best at selling themselves. You know the type I'm talking about, the type who would make good used car salesmen. Those people can BS their way through an interview well enough that some interviewers buy the shit. Not everyone can do that.

Does make me worry about my prospects when i graduate next year, though i know people who had jobs lined up before even graduating last spring.

Trades are starting to make a come back. Some of those people without a college degree but a skilled trade make quite a bit.

A B.A. doesn't go very far anymore. The greatest obstacle to finding a job with a degree is that any position relevant to your field always requires experience in the field. Problem is, it's hard to get experience when no one hires you. My Economics degree actually gives me an edge for certain positions, but I'm still rejected a lot for lack of experience. I found a career path that will give me experience, and give me a real shot at something I want to do as well.

Comically enough it involves the Air Force.

I will have a little experience after graduating, i work here in the school's computer lab, which is technically part of the IT department, that's at least something.

[quote name='Wlogan31']They are if you get the right type of degree. Accounting at the moment is an excellent example...

I had several job offers (full-time, very good companies) by the time I was a Senior in college and I A) didn't "know people" and B) didn't go to some fancy-pants name-dropping school[/quote]
[quote name='Dead of Knight']This. Accounting ftw.[/quote]

Funny you should mention that since that is my degree. I'm sure it depends on the market but around Cleveland it was bone dry for the past year. I got lucky and found a job in industry so I got around the life draining grind of working in a public firm for a year or two but I find the profession as a whole to be snobby and I expect this to affect my career way down the road. But for what it's worth I'd rather be planning my wedding next spring than traveling and working 80 hour weeks.

This is all subject to your degree and what you plan on doing with it. It's all purely subjective. A degree in Sanskrit isn't going to help you land a job as a technical writer.

As mentioned before, this article is a sob story with a single example used to cast a bad light. Has anyone ever stopped to think that maybe her job isn't quite what it used to be back in 1986? Back then, I could understand a data modeler making that kind of money, but nowadays since OOP is much more mature, data modeling is something a computer scientist does in their regular role on a daily basis. I have yet to work at a single company that has a dedicated person to data modeling. Nowadays, it's just something that you are expected to know how to do (and are often tasked to do it like it's nothing).

Times have changed in her particular industry and this story completely ignores that. If she's not able to advance herself technologically then it's no wonder she had such a hard time finding work. People often say they "can't find work" when they often mean "can't find a job that pays me what I think I'm worth." Some people need a dose of reality.

[quote name='RAMSTORIA']graduated with a ba in history (yeah yeah, insert liberal arts joke here) in dec 2005. cant say my two jobs since than have required anything close to a BA. though it did get me a higher payrate at my current job.[/QUOTE]

What job do you currently have? I am in college and considering getting a BA in History. I kind of want to be a history prof. or something along the lines of that, but other than teaching im not sure how far it could get me.

Also depends on the area you want to go in, within the major. My classmates interested in counseling are having a rough time finding a job. However, working in Autism has opened up a lot of options for me.

[quote name='mtxbass1']This is all subject to your degree and what you plan on doing with it. It's all purely subjective. A degree in Sanskrit isn't going to help you land a job as a technical writer.

As mentioned before, this article is a sob story with a single example used to cast a bad light. Has anyone ever stopped to think that maybe her job isn't quite what it used to be back in 1986? Back then, I could understand a data modeler making that kind of money, but nowadays since OOP is much more mature, data modeling is something a computer scientist does in their regular role on a daily basis. I have yet to work at a single company that has a dedicated person to data modeling. Nowadays, it's just something that you are expected to know how to do (and are often tasked to do it like it's nothing).

Times have changed in her particular industry and this story completely ignores that. If she's not able to advance herself technologically then it's no wonder she had such a hard time finding work. People often say they "can't find work" when they often mean "can't find a job that pays me what I think I'm worth." Some people need a dose of reality.[/QUOTE]

QFT

If you are in a field which is constantly changing, you better keep up with advancements or you will be replaced by someone else.

It's not the college degree, its the lazy bastard that can't get the job. If your going for the jobs that are guaranteed you will never get salary you want. In my experience you will probably have a few crappy jobs before you get the one you are comfortable with.

[quote name='Paco']Trades are starting to make a come back. Some of those people without a college degree but a skilled trade make quite a bit.[/quote]

Skilled trades are always in demand, but require physical labour thus not many want to do that.

You need a college degree even just to get a chance for a decent job, unless you want to be a retail wage slave. You need to know how to sell yourself and know what kind of career you're wanting, and college is suppose to help with that. We're not all going to be making 100k+ a year, we just need to find something that will make us happy, the myth people believe is money = happiness and for me that isn't true, I can live in a smaller house, drive a crappier car, etc, I don't need to be driving a BMW or living in a half million dollar home, it's all relative.

[quote name='Thongsy']Skilled trades are always in demand, but require physical labour thus not many want to do that.

You need a college degree even just to get a chance for a decent job, unless you want to be a retail wage slave. You need to know how to sell yourself and know what kind of career you're wanting, and college is suppose to help with that. We're not all going to be making 100k+ a year, we just need to find something that will make us happy, the myth people believe is money = happiness and for me that isn't true, I can live in a smaller house, drive a crappier car, etc, I don't need to be driving a BMW or living in a half million dollar home, it's all relative.[/quote]

FYI 100k is not that much relatively speaking...go out into the real world and you will see how far that gets you...especially in a big city.

College degrees aren't worth what they once were because more people have them. I think if you have the opportunity it would be wise to get an advanced degree to seperate you from the pack with bachelors degrees.

Moral of the story: don't get a liberal arts degree. Seriously.

[quote name='ivanctorres']FYI 100k is that much relatively speaking...go out into the real world and you will see how far that gets you...especially in a big city.[/quote]

eeeehhhh?

I'm basing all this on the assumption that "is" was a typo, given the context, but...

Something around 5% of the country make 100k or more individually, only like 15% as a total household income.

So if you're making $100k you're making more money than 95% of the country.

Well the person in the article has a degree in one of the most steadily outsourced jobs there is, so I'm not terribly surprised. But the article makes it sound like there's no way to prove your worth while in college and that you're basically ed once you graduate... and somehow, I doubt that's accurate.

[quote name='SpazX']eeeehhhh?

I'm basing all this on the assumption that "is" was a typo, given the context, but...

Something around 5% of the country make 100k or more individually, only like 15% as a total household income.

So if you're making $100k you're making more money than 95% of the country.[/quote]

It also depends upon where you live, of course. There are plenty of non-Hamptons communities out on Long Island (mostly Nassau county, off the top of my head) where $80K a year puts you right in the middle class. Cost of living and all that rot, quite nasty. It's fairly worthwhile if you like living like a miser, get a good job for about 10 years and do nothing but save whenever possible. Nice work if you can get it.

Still though, as I'm ready to receive my Masters, it is a bit jarring to see a ridiculous amount of undergrads with this sense of entitlement when it comes to jobs, especially within education around here. While I don't doubt that the majority of them will make fine teachers, there is a significant portion who want to treat it like a 6 AM - 2 PM, "I'm off in the summer!", "I'll just grab lesson plans off the net" jamboree. Way to look out for your students.

[quote name='Chacrana']Well the person in the article has a degree in one of the most steadily outsourced jobs there is, so I'm not terribly surprised. But the article makes it sound like there's no way to prove your worth while in college and that you're basically ed once you graduate... and somehow, I doubt that's accurate.[/QUOTE]

Not at all - internships, finding an entry-level position in your field, research with your professors, tutoring or honor societies...there are plenty of ways.

[quote name='evanft']Moral of the story: don't get a liberal arts degree. Seriously.[/QUOTE]

If you've got the skills to do something else, it's probably a good idea. As tempting as that degree in English might sound, there's no guarantee it's going to land you a job, much less one that will help you pay off any loans you've built up while getting that degree.

I'm an engineer, and between my grades and the fact that I'm finally getting some experience with the internship I've got now, I'm not too worried at the moment.

Oh no, I wasn't saying I agree with the article -- there's a lotta ways to get ahead with stuff. I guess I'm sorta lucky that research is mandatory for one of my majors at school (economics), because I'd have no interest in doing that otherwise

and yeah, I don't understand why people would choose a non-major, honestly. Are people just wanting to go to college to get jack shit out of it?

[quote name='Kapwanil']
Still though, as I'm ready to receive my Masters, it is a bit jarring to see a ridiculous amount of undergrads with this sense of entitlement when it comes to jobs, especially within education around here. [/QUOTE]

I dunno... I think it makes sense... I mean, you go through 4 years of what's (presumably) very difficult material and I'd think a sense of entitlement is almost natural.

Unless you're expecting like $100,000 a year after your undergrad, in which case yeah, it ain't happenin'.

[quote name='Chacrana']and yeah, I don't understand why people would choose a non-major, honestly. Are people just wanting to go to college to get jack shit out of it?[/QUOTE]

[quote name='Chacrana']I dunno... I think it makes sense... I mean, you go through 4 years of what's (presumably) very difficult material and I'd think a sense of entitlement is almost natural.

Unless you're expecting like $100,000 a year after your undergrad, in which case yeah, it ain't happenin'.[/QUOTE]

These both boil down to the same thing - keep in mind, a lot of people go to college and proceed to do jack shit while they're there. Partying and drinking seem like a much better use of their time, up until they remember why they're supposed to be there in the first place.

[quote name='mtxbass1']This is all subject to your degree and what you plan on doing with it. It's all purely subjective. A degree in Sanskrit isn't going to help you land a job as a technical writer.

As mentioned before, this article is a sob story with a single example used to cast a bad light. Has anyone ever stopped to think that maybe her job isn't quite what it used to be back in 1986? Back then, I could understand a data modeler making that kind of money, but nowadays since OOP is much more mature, data modeling is something a computer scientist does in their regular role on a daily basis. I have yet to work at a single company that has a dedicated person to data modeling. Nowadays, it's just something that you are expected to know how to do (and are often tasked to do it like it's nothing).

Times have changed in her particular industry and this story completely ignores that. If she's not able to advance herself technologically then it's no wonder she had such a hard time finding work. People often say they "can't find work" when they often mean "can't find a job that pays me what I think I'm worth." Some people need a dose of reality.[/QUOTE]

Could you be more of a condescending douche? Honestly half your posts are shit like, "I work a great job and make awesome investments... What is this economic downturn you philistines speak of?" We get the ing picture, and everyone here is happy for you, really we are.

Sure the story is a sob story but for that matter so is Elie Wiesel's, my meaning being that this type of thing isn't at all uncommon so saying that it's a sob story doesn't mean shit.

"I have yet to work at a single company that has a dedicated person to data modeling." Have you worked for a company as large as Walmart or Sprint? If you had actually read the article (or were familiar with the industry as a whole, beyond your own limited experiences) you'd see that clearly companies still need people to fill positions dedicated primarily to data modeling.

I love how you talk about being able to keep oneself up to date technologically, that's not really easy for someone who is old with kids and doesn't have time to devote to going back to school. Of course that's something you wouldn't know anything about considering you have none and have probably been out of school for less than 10 years so your degree is still relatively fresh. "Iuventuti nil arduum."

"People often say they "can't find work" when they often mean "can't find a job that pays me what I think I'm worth." -- Such an astute observation Sherlock. It's called being succinct.

"Times have changed in her particular industry and this story completely ignores that. " -- Honestly I don't know why I'm deigning to respond to you since it's clear you didn't read shit and just came in hear to tell everyone a story we've heard a thousand times. But since I'm bored...

"Economists chiefly cite globalization and technology, which have prompted employers to put the highest value on abstract skills possessed by a relatively small group, for this state of affairs"

Does this not entirely mention changes in her industry resulting in her state of affairs? It's obvious going into the article that this is the case and anyone who reads it understands already that times have changed, but we appreciate the time you took to question our own intellect. "Has anyone ever stopped to think that maybe her job isn't quite what it used to be back in 1986?" - Yes, we all realized that 2 seconds in, and we appreciate the fact that the article didn't shove this already understood fact down our throats because we had you do it for us.

[quote name='SpazX']eeeehhhh?

I'm basing all this on the assumption that "is" was a typo, given the context, but...

Something around 5% of the country make 100k or more individually, only like 15% as a total household income.

So if you're making $100k you're making more money than 95% of the country.[/quote]

Not a typo...try raising a family and you wil be suprised at how many people "struggle." Home purchases in New York (NYC and Long Island) typically require a dual income household because of the high home prices. (See Wombat)

[quote name='ivanctorres']Not a typo...try raising a family and you wil be suprised at how many people "struggle." Home purchases in New York (NYC and Long Island) typically require a dual income household because of the high home prices. (See Wombat)[/quote]

It was a typo - you meant to put "isn't" . But regardless of the few places where $100k might be necessary to raise a family - in most places it's a lot of money and so, relatively speaking, it's a lot of money. Even in most places where $100k isn't a lot of money, it's still more than enough.

Most of the country (and even more of the world) would be thrilled to make that much money.

[quote name='SpazX']It was a typo - you meant to put "isn't" . But regardless of the few places where $100k might be necessary to raise a family - in most places it's a lot of money and so, relatively speaking, it's a lot of money. Even in most places where $100k isn't a lot of money, it's still more than enough.

Most of the country (and even more of the world) would be thrilled to make that much money.[/QUOTE]

Everything is relative when discussing such a nebulous concept as the quality of life. As someone who lives in the Tri-state area I can tell you from first hand experience that most people will have a tough time making it on a combined income of less than $100K (if you intended on buying a house and having multiple cars). However, if you do not wish such commodities you can always rent and leave on the cheap but even so you're still looking at about $50-60K to live moderately. I'm also well aware that the Tri-state area and most of the east coast is not a good example to base any discussion on living expenses (High demand = high cost of living).

Getting back to the original topic, a college education affords you the opportunity to find a job and live moderately but if you aren't able to find a job than college/loans end up being a burden too hard to overcome. I guess what I'm trying to say is that you are better off having a college degree but this is not always the case.

[quote name='SpazX']It was a typo - you meant to put "isn't" . But regardless of the few places where $100k might be necessary to raise a family - in most places it's a lot of money and so, relatively speaking, it's a lot of money. Even in most places where $100k isn't a lot of money, it's still more than enough.

Most of the country (and even more of the world) would be thrilled to make that much money.[/quote]

most of the country and the world don't live in any of the five major cities in America. but that "small" population is still around 60 million people.

I am late to the party.

I worked on getting a degree for 3 years (when I first went to college like many people I had no ing clue what I wanted to do...so I took gen eds for 2 years) during my last legit year of college I figured out that I didnt even need a degree to go into broadcasting that isnt news. news I dont want to go into it anyway.

So I dropped completely out of college went to a broadcasting school and now I work almost non stop. When everyone swore up and down that not having a degree would cripple me. I beat out people with 4 year degrees all the time because I have something they dont....proven experience. I was and will always be a firm believer in if you truly know your shit then people can not help but to hire you for things.

But degrees are fine to. You just have to really find out if your profession really truly needs a degree. I think a lot of people are just pressured to get a degree.

I have a Bachelor's in Broadcast Journalism, but had no other experience out of college, I eventually wound up in a commissioned retail sales job where I made fairly decent money, but the busy season hours were ridiculous and there was a lot of BS and politics that went on there because it was mainly a good ol' boy network so to speak. Myself and another co-worker were let go because we called them on their BS (although they promised us numerous times things would get better, but must have decided it was easier to get rid of us than it would be to fix problems)

So I've been searching for a job since, which has been very difficult (I found a temp job for a month through a staffing service which was also retail based) I've made the decision to go back to school for a graduate degree in Accounting, so that I have an actual employable skill rather than just a general degree that doesn't help much. I have to spend a year or so taking some foundation courses for the Master's Program (The school I am going to offers two MAsters programs in accounting, one for people who have a degree in something else, then a Professional Accounting degree for people who have an Acct. degree and want to meet the requirements for the CPA exam, although both programs qualify you to take the exam) I figure once I get the basic courses out of the way too, I can at least start looking for some entry level accounting jobs while I continue to go to school at night for the MAster's

I am putting this in another post because its a completely other thought.

You also have to remember that college is a business first and a education center seconds.

College are worst than the tobacco industry when it comes to brand marketing. Kids are pressured there entire lives that if they do not attend college they are not only missing out of all this super crazy MTV type fun. But without a degree that are complete shit and worthless.

Also dont get it twisted that they dont lie cheat and steal their way to get people to come. I wish I had a link to that story I studied while I was in college. What happen was this....a local college was paying a High school counselors to "persuade" low income kids into thinking they could truly afford college just by signing their name on some papers. Meaning take out huge massive amounts of loans that there is almost not hope pay back.

And dont say that the kid should be smarter. When your a 18 year old get in the ghetto and someone of authority is telling you the only to have a good life is to get a degree you will almost believe anything.


And lets not forget just how much money it takes to go to college. They raise the price almost every year. They nickel and dime the shit out of you in all manners. If you have gone to college you have purchased about $500-1000 for books you completely do not use or need in class. I also found it surprising that Gen Ed books where so god damn high when the classes were after all gen ed.


Bottom line. Getting a degree ing sucks. But there is a good amount of upside to it....but you can live a very good life with out one. depending on what you want to do. I think when most people think about "jobs" they automatically think about suits and cubes and accounting and a 9 to 5. There are many many many many many jobs out there they are not tradition jobs where you report to a boss and drink coffee by the cooler.

My name is soodmeg and I dont have a degree. But I do have a kick ass job in television that has allowed me to meat celeb, see the best of sites on other peoples dime, and get paid out the ass.

Now tell me I am not successful Mr. Guidance Consoler.

Did you take any English classes during your college stint, Soodmeg?

I think a lot of people don't understand that they should do internships while in college. And yes, even if it takes not getting paid, you gotta do that shit.