Is There still time for the PSP to overtake the DS

The PSP is on the verge of seeing the best games / years of its life, but I'm wondering if it's too late, and just wanted to get some opinions on it. It'd be nice if Sony would give, 45 dollars off when you buy a ps3 and a psp together, or if they'd just give the system one more price drop. - 149.99. You could get another 5 years of life out of the psp, it's not like it's outdated graphically by the competition. It'd be nice if they were to come out with a redesign that also uses the UMD, like how the DS Lite did, at a 149.99 or cheaper price, instead of a entirely new system. I just want to see the best handheld on the market do well...

probably not when they just release the bundle with movie, memory stick, and games. The portable market is never decided by graphpic quality (Lyxn, Game Gear)

The PSP could catch up, but it won't.

No matter how many awesome games come out on the PSP, people seem to just not care.

hahahahahahaha


No.

Probably not but I do think a PSP2 could be successful even if they didn't upgrade the horsepower of the system as long as they:

1. Added a second analog nub or added 2 real analog sticks (there's a great usb mod floating around)
2. Ditched the UMD in favor of pro duo based games. This would mean no load times, longer battery life and crazy piracy.
3. Allow homebrew

The PSP is great and can do a ton but it is severely lacking in AAA games and I think it has been flawed from the start.

The PSP won't gain any ground until the system gets redesigned. UMD is simply a bad format and the analog nub is pretty awful too. I like the PSP, it's just not that great of a system designwise.

It all comes down to the same old argument - do you want your video game system to be awesome for video games but not do a lot else, or do you want your video game system to be good for video games, music, phone calls (N Gage), video, homework, pictures, etc. etc. etc.

I'm happy the DS is winning out because it proves that the first strategy can still be successful. I still maintain that while the PS2 IS a great system with AWESOME games, a factor in its success was its DVD capabilities. I don't want a PC that just so happens to be able to play games, I want a game playing machine that is optimized for gameplay.

psp needs a price drop or a redesign.. regenerate some interest, just like the NIntendo does - you had about 3 versions of the gameboy advance..

As a late owner of a PSP I think the problem is that the games are horrible for the console. I don't understand Sony's thought that all handheld gamers want are ports of console games. I don't know who greenlighted this idea, because if there is a choice to play the same game on a handheld or a console, I think everyone would agree that you'd play the console game.

It won't catch up. Definitely not in Japan at least, and it is losing ground in other markets from what I understand.

A redesign would fuel some sales, sure, but when you've got your head guys running around calling the current machine "a piece of art" and whatnot, I don't think you're going to get one anytime soon.

Sony approached this just like they do their console business - they threw a lot of developers at it without trying to really secure a good bevy of high profile AAA and first party titles. If it had come out the gate with Gran Turismo and GTA, I'm sure the story would be different.

But GTA can't even save it at this point, which is pretty huge I'd wager.

UMD just died, so that destroys a good marketing bullet point for the PSP pretty handily.

The big test is to see what happens to game support on the PSP once the PS3 appears. I'm not exactly holding my breath in thinking it'll remain at the level it is now, as Sony has a lot more to win/lose with the PS3, and will invest their resources heavily into it. Sure there's going to be an emulator, but if that is their answer to less support, they need another strategy.

The PSP can't outsell the GBA. That's pretty much the nail in the coffin on whether or not it's gonna pull ahead.

I would say no. Th eonly thing I use my PSP for lately is music and converted video to watch/listen to at work. The games have never been that great....minus a few exceptions here and there.

Plus, the price point is higher than most want for a handheld.

the psp is too powerful for it's own good, that's why it gets a parapper the rapper (rehash) and gitaroo man (rehash), and a smackdown vs raw (rehash), and parapper should have been a game that would be downloaded from online for the ps1 emulator. If you're going to rehash an old game, at least make it cheap... 10/15, maybe 20(that's heavily pushing it though)

It can still beat the DS, at least in upcoming sales, developers have to stop disrespecting the psp

[quote name='Thomas96']the psp is too powerful for it's own good, that's why it gets a parapper the rapper (rehash) and gitaroo man (rehash), and a smackdown vs raw (rehash), and parapper should have been a game that would be downloaded from online for the ps1 emulator. If you're going to rehash an old game, at least make it cheap... 10/15, maybe 20(that's heavily pushing it though)

It can still beat the DS, at least in upcoming sales, developers have to stop disrespecting the psp[/QUOTE]

It's cool. Let that fanboy shine on through a little more.

I don't care. I already like PSP better than DS. As long as PSP continues to have games that I have interest in come out, I'm happy.

[quote name='The Mana Knight']I don't care. I already like PSP better than DS. As long as PSP continues to have games that I have interest in come out, I'm happy.[/QUOTE]

Agreed.

The system can die next year but it's already provided me with enough decent games (not counting the ones I'm looking forward to for the rest of the year).

In the US? Sure, it's not that far behind and it's selling at a better rate than the DS was at this rate. It's selling better in the US than Japan, which seems to be one of the reasons why Lumines II is coming out here before it does in Japan.

In Japan, hell no, anyone with a brain can tell that. The PSP has done well for itself, but it hasn't gotten the insane sales that the DS Lite continues to have.

[quote name='Strell']It's cool. Let that fanboy shine on through a little more.[/QUOTE]


don't get me wrong it's not that I'm a fanboy and I only like psp... I like the DS, but I do want the psp to do well that's all. I didn't like the way EA did the xbox with the half ass version of Madden 06, or that half as gun, and some other games that looked like xbox games forthe 360 that were 60. My thing is, I want to see good games on psp and let reach its potential. But most DS fanboys may be affraid of that...

I don't think so. The PSP has some great games the only problem is I've played them before. I have Street Fighter Alpha 3 and Hot Shots which are sick and awesome but they aren't anything new. The one game I could say that I played through and loved that was an original PSP game was Syhpon Filter Dark Mirror. The games can be made but we keep getting old games and PS2 games dumbed down. I think a spinning disc was not the way to go for a portable system and although the PSP is good for some games, it feels somewhat clunky for most. I'm not sure how a redesign would help unless it was a complete overhaul of the system. In any event I am looking foward to Metal Gear and Earthworm Jim.

PSP has sort of become the platform to make a quick buck by adding some minor things. I mean do we really need Mortal Kombat: Deception port? There are some original games but if you look at the top games many are games that can be played on existing system. Most of those ports are not design as portable games, and can be hard to pick up and play. Also would publisher want to make new game when they can release a port of a PS or PS2 games?

Loading time can be avoid but games like midnight club and WWE gives the PSP a real bad impression.


The PSP is a great system with many great games, but dont expect it to have the success of DS

No. PSP games are not designed from the ground up for the platform (Lumines and LocoRoco are glaring exceptions to this). I don't mean to say that games are 'ports' but the fundamental gameplay aspects are.

With the DS, Nintendo has mandated that all devs must have a prominent use of the second screen yet Sony hasn't done the same thing by telling devs where to focus their efforts. The first party software is good but there aren't enough shining examples to tell the 3rd parties how to make their games great.

I say they scrap it and double down on the PSP2.

[quote name='jkam']I don't think so. The PSP has some great games the only problem is I've played them before. I have Street Fighter Alpha 3 and Hot Shots which are sick and awesome but they aren't anything new. [/QUOTE]I'm more so concerned about good games, not if a game is completely original. Around 95% of the games I know of on consoles are not original at all and are basically games we played before (some with a different name). I still find the DS barely has original games either (except a few Japanese games, most Japanese only). Most of the best DS games are sequels to GBA games, which are basically the same thing, with the touch screen added to do stuff that doesn't really add anything to the game (It's easier to just assign buttons, like New Super Mario Bros. touch screen use).

[quote name='The Mana Knight']I'm more so concerned about good games, not if a game is completely original. Around 95% of the games I know of on consoles are not original at all and are basically games we played before (some with a different name). I still find the DS barely has original games either (except a few Japanese games, most Japanese only). Most of the best DS games are sequels to GBA games, which are basically the same thing, with the touch screen added to do stuff that doesn't really add anything to the game (It's easier to just assign buttons, like New Super Mario Bros. touch screen use).[/QUOTE]

Even if most games for the DS aren't original they don't closely match their console counterparts. Like I said I own Street Fighter and Hot Shots and love them but when it comes down to it I can play them on my PS2. The PSP doesn't have new original games like Phoneix Wright, Trauma Center, Pac-Pix, and Pac N Roll to name a few that I have played and enjoyed. I also thought these games made sense using the touch screen. I own a PSP and I like it. I take it for what it is though. IMO the DS has already won the race hands down.

[quote name='The Mana Knight']I'm more so concerned about good games, not if a game is completely original. Around 95% of the games I know of on consoles are not original at all and are basically games we played before (some with a different name). I still find the DS barely has original games either (except a few Japanese games, most Japanese only). Most of the best DS games are sequels to GBA games, which are basically the same thing, with the touch screen added to do stuff that doesn't really add anything to the game (It's easier to just assign buttons, like New Super Mario Bros. touch screen use).[/QUOTE]

Well there's a gross overstatement. There's a difference between using an established character to make a substantially different game. Something like Kirby Canvas Curse or Metroid Prime Pinball is so radically different then how the franchise had been used before that considering them unoriginal on the basis of characters is just a fallacy. Even a Super Princess Peach is pretty far out in left field from something like Yoshi's Island. Furthermore, several games that "aren't" unoriginal benefitted significantly from the use of the touch screen and wi-fi. Mario Kart, Animal Crossing, Tetris, Advanced Wars, Lost in Blue, and Phoenix Wright are all significantly better games because of utilizing the features of the DS.

The PSP's problem is that it seems to be mired in good but not great games. While you can knock the DS for having some truly terrible games, it also has some utterly brilliant games that are system sellers. The PSP on the other hand has had a lot of good games, but nothing that moves systems beyond GTA. Loco Roco has sold incredibly poorly in the US and Luminese isn't exclusive anymore. Even if the DS's originality is just smoke and mirrors, the simple fact of the matter is that they've moved millions of systems so far in a way the PSP can only dream of.

The PSP just doesn't appeal to non/casual Sony gamers the way the DS does to the casual gaming audience who doesn't care one way or the other about Nintendo. Hell, I know PC gamers who hate console gaming that bought a DS simply to play New Super Mario Brothers.

[quote name='javeryh']Probably not but I do think a PSP2 could be successful even if they didn't upgrade the horsepower of the system as long as they:

1. Added a second analog nub or added 2 real analog sticks (there's a great usb mod floating around)
2. Ditched the UMD in favor of pro duo based games. This would mean no load times, longer battery life and crazy piracy.
3. Allow homebrew

The PSP is great and can do a ton but it is severely lacking in AAA games and I think it has been flawed from the start.[/quote]

Aside from your first recommendation, there'd be no way in hell Sony would allow that stuff. It'd be cool, but it would never happen, as you're probably aware of.

In Japan, I believe it's a lost cause. The DS regularly beats the PSP by anywhere from 100,000 to 200,000 units a week. A friggin' week!

However, those numbers are a lot closer in North America and Europe. So if Sony can do something soon to change gamer's minds, I believe they can still overtake the DS in those markets.

I don't even think new hardware is the key to them winning, though. If Sony was able to get better games and properly use its advanced hardware, I think that'd be enough. Gamers want the PS1 download service soon, and I think it will be very successful if Sony doesn't overprice its games.

Also, the GPS recently sold out in Japan, so it seems to be a pretty good piece of hardware. That, too, could really help Sony if developers can properly use the peripheral.

[quote name='furyk']The PSP's problem is that it seems to be mired in good but not great games. While you can knock the DS for having some truly terrible games, it also has some utterly brilliant games that are system sellers. The PSP on the other hand has had a lot of good games, but nothing that moves systems beyond GTA. Loco Roco has sold incredibly poorly in the US and Luminese isn't exclusive anymore. Even if the DS's originality is just smoke and mirrors, the simple fact of the matter is that they've moved millions of systems so far in a way the PSP can only dream of. [/QUOTE]Saying the DS has brilliant games is completely subjective. I personally like Daxter better than anything DS has to offer, by a long shot. The millions and millions of systems only apply to Japan. From what I last saw, the DS is only leading PSP by 1 million in the U.S. That's not millions more.
[quote name='javeryh']1. Added a second analog nub or added 2 real analog sticks (there's a great usb mod floating around)[/QUOTE]At least Sony included an analog nub, compared to handhelds before just not having that and the D-pad. Also, the Dreamcast was perfectly fine with just one analog stick, and many PS1 games only used one analog stick. If PSP had two analog sticks, that would only make the games more complicated, like console games are (handheld gaming is intended to be a little more simple).
[quote name='jkam']Even if most games for the DS aren't original they don't closely match their console counterparts. Like I said I own Street Fighter and Hot Shots and love them but when it comes down to it I can play them on my PS2. The PSP doesn't have new original games like Phoneix Wright, Trauma Center, Pac-Pix, and Pac N Roll to name a few that I have played an enjoyed. I also thought these games made sense using the touch screen. I own a PSP and I like it. I take it for what it is though. IMO the DS has already won the race hands down.[/QUOTE]Phoenix Wright is a GBA port of a Japanese only series, until the DS came along. Pac-Pix and Pac N Roll aren't really that great. Also, the PSP was intended to be PS1/PS2 style gaming on the go. That alone makes me happy, since PS1/PS2 are the best IMO.

I got into this argument a while back. The PSP and DS are really catering to two different groups of people. I don't see why they can't both be successful.

Sony will screw up the PSP because they can't stand being second. Instead of embracing the underdog mentality and making some unbeatable games, they'll continue to port their best selling games. Tony Hawk, NFL Street, Hot Shots Golf, and Wipeout can all be played on a PS1/PS2.

The problem is that many DS games are also "ports". I just got Mario Kart DS for my wife last week. When she handed the DS over to me, it felt like I was playing a handheld version of the SNES version. Super Mario 64 is a port with added touch screen capablity. Super Princess Peach is a generic Nintendo platformer with "chick" powers.

I think it's funny when people point out the games for the DS that evolve a series. Everyone loves to point out Metroid Pinball or Kirby. No one ever mentions Killzone or the Metal Gear AC!D series. These games have taken an established franchise and changed it up specifically for the PSP. The question should be: Would anyone buy any of these games if they weren't part of a beloved franchise?

The two best games for the system are puzzlers. No one can deny the greatness of Lumines and Meteos. The problem is that we'll just get five more sequels of each instead of an original puzzle game that will capture our imainations again.

Fanboys will play their systems and nothing else. You can't convince them that all the systems have positives and negatives and that there are gems for every system that simply must be played.

I hope the PSP and DS both stick around for 5 more years. I like both systems and I like what they both offer. I guess I'm one of those rare centrists or I just can't make up my ing mind.

Since there has been mention of the U.S., and how it compares to Japan

September NPD:

NDS - 403,435
PS2 - 306,517
360 - 259,458
GBA - 177,145
PSP - 153,353
NGC - 42,286
XBX - 6,495

I think it's no secret about the DS's success in America.

1. Low price. (Both console and games are incredibly affordable)
2. Quality library with plenty of beloved franchises represented. (Zelda being the only absence)
3. Backwards compatiblity (Parents don't feel like they wasted hundreds of dollars on games that can no longer be played)

[quote name='javeryh']
2. Ditched the UMD in favor of pro duo based games. This would mean no load times, longer battery life and crazy piracy.

[/QUOTE]

Far too expensive. A far better solution would be to support caching the primary portions of a game to Memory Stick while requiring the UMD for proof of ownership and playing stuff that isn't affected by load times, mainly FMV.

This makes both the consumers and the game publishers happy.

PSP won't catch up to the DS because it was doomed to begin with. For all of its technological achievements, and as impressive as the capabilities of the system are, it is nothing more than a portable PS2. That is what happens when you try to follow Nintendo's "blueprint". They will always be one step behind Nintendo.

Take the GBA, the most successful system ever. It was essentially a portable SNES. One would assume the GBA2 would evolve into a portable N64. Sony probably thought so, and decided to outdo Nintendo and release a PS2-level handheld.

The genius of the DS is that Nintendo realized the handheld market was no longer just about having a "console in the palm of your hands". The handheld market has evolved from being a "portable market" into a "new way of playing games market."

I'm willing to bet even if MGS: PO and GTA: LCS released for the PSP in its first year, they would still be lagging behind the DS in sales. It isn't the lack of good games, its just that we've already "been there and done that."

The $50K sports car doesn't need to match the sales of the $30K sports car. It just needs to do enough business to make a profit for its producer.

Sony doesn't need to beat the DS. Sony needs the PSP to make money. That is where the platofrm is failing. The installed base is more than sufficient to allow for some fairly high budget games if they reach just 5% of that installed base. The critical gap isn't in unit sales but in software sales in relation to the potential market.

Sony could be neck and neck with the DS for hardware sold but scaling up their software sales to that level would still have them coming badly short on software revenue, even though their media is far less costly and their ASP much higher.

Imagine the PS1's revenues without it's top 100 bestselling games. This is where the PSP is at with a very few exceptions,

The ps3 is going to be a big help for the psp for serveral reasons. 1st, now developers can't port ps3 games to it, thus forcing more orginal titles; 2nd ps1 library, and other downloadable games; 3rd accessing ps3 w/ psp; The psp's reemergence is highly contingent on the ps3's success. People talking about the DS already won, and the war is over... I think the war might be just beginning...

[quote name='Thomas96']The ps3 is going to be a big help for the psp for serveral reasons. 1st, now developers can't port ps3 games to it, thus forcing more orginal titles; 2nd ps1 library, and other downloadable games; 3rd accessing ps3 w/ psp; The psp's reemergence is highly contingent on the ps3's success. People talking about the DS already won, and the war is over... I think the war might be just beginning...[/QUOTE]

The war is over. It has been over for a while now.

There's lots of problems in your argument. Namely, you're thinking the PSP is going to somehow gain enough support to then overtake the DS in terms of game library (quantity wise, not necessarily quality wise). This won't happen for a lot of reasons, namely that the DS is too far ahead in Japan where the majority of developers are.

Also, as we've seen with the GBA/GC, connectivity between a console and it's portable counterpart is never a system seller. Never. It doesn't help that the best Sony has shown is a rearview mirror in GTA HD, which absolutely no one gives a shit about. Not to mention that the PS3 will actually pull attention away from the PSP. All Sony is doing to counter this is releasing an emulator, and frankly, that's not enough to keep people at bay, interested, or attract enough new blood. It'll bring some and salvage some, but it's a bandaid on a cracked skull.

You're moving into early stages of delusion, brought upon by refusal.

As epobirs pointed out, it can't even make money for Sony, let alone take on the DS. That's the problem here. One of their big moneymakers (UMD) is dead, and the software isn't moving as quickly as should be needed for profit.

It's not going to happen.

I love the PSP (and the DS, just to be fair) but it has some pretty major failings. I actually don't think the hardware is the problem. Sure, some things could be improved, but it's a pretty amazing piece of equipment as it is. The problem is the games (and secondarily, the system's price).

There are some very good games for the PSP. I just started playing Daxter and it's just great. it's an original platformer with great graphics and game play. But for every Daxter, we seem to get 10 crappy ports. And beyond the quality of the games, there's the price. Portable games should not be costing $40+. The DS got this right, with most of its games in the $30-$35 range. And of course, there's the cost of the system as well, which is nearly twice that of the DS (especially if you factor in the required memory card, etc). Is it any wonder that it's not selling as well?

That said, I don't actually think the PSP is doing all that bad. This is no N-GAGE we're talking about. It's just not doing as well as the DS. And I don't think you can expect it to. The DS's user base includes both kids and adults, while the price of the PSP and the available games makes its audience a lot older. So I don't think "is it beating the DS?" is really the question you should ask. What we want to know is if it's doing well enough for the system to sustain itself and to encourage developers to continue making new games. I think it is.

[quote name='Kendro']I'm willing to bet even if MGS: PO and GTA: LCS released for the PSP in its first year, they would still be lagging behind the DS in sales. It isn't the lack of good games, its just that we've already "been there and done that."[/quote]
LCS did come out in the PSP's first year.

Does it really matter if it overtakes the DS?

I know it will only get worse when the Wii and PS3 come out but I don't understand all this console sales crap. Who really cares who finishes first, second, or third? What matters most is making sure Nintendo, Sony, and M$ are doing well enough to make another console. When we have competition, we all win.

This is coming from someone who thinks the XBox and the 360 are worthless. However, I wouldn't want M$ to stop making consoles.

the psp outselling the DS at this point is like the Philly Eagles accepting TO back to the team. it cant happen. this is just history repeating itself but now in the handheld market. the DS is like an Apple IPOD. people want it,its affordable,and its popular. its still worse than a creative Zen but somehow it outsells the Zen by over a couple million. the PSP has better hardware but the DS is cheaper,more fun games, and on top of that the games are cheaper than the PSPs. i hated it how i paid 40-50 bucks for a PSP game when i only paid 30-35 for a great game. IMO i think the price of the games scared potential buyeers away from the system. i have a PSP and DS. My PSP is gaining dust while the DS is getting all attention. there is so much of tekken i could on it..and on the DS im litterally hooked on games like Trauma Center and Phoenix Wright. Companies should know what they are getting into when they enter the handheld market. Nintendo knocks off any new opponent that enters the market. the GBC/GBA did in the Neo Geo Pocket, game.com,wonderswan,game gear..to name a few. Sony should have known what they were up against as in a Sales aspect. they should know that their competitor owns most of the market share. if it overall made them money its a victoy to them.

It could be argued that the PSP is too powerful for its own good. Sony sought to define a new category for handheld game hardware and software. The approach had merit but hasn't stood up to realworld testing.

Developers are in a difficult position. Creating original content for the PSP that fully exploits its capability (or at least the two-thirds they're allowed) can cost nearly as much as a comparable project for the PS2. The PS2 can far more reliably deliver the audience needed to be assured of at least breaking even on the project if isn't an utter turkey. They can split the difference by creating ports of PS2 projects those lack the same allure as something truly unique to the platform. A portion of the market will favor the portable version but not enough to reach the numbers needed.

Sony might have been better off producing a less powerful machine with a significantly lower price point. It would remain a stronger 3D system than the DS with a much better display resolution but with a price point closer to what the mass market expects for a handheld, with software pricing to match.

Considering that in most cases the PSP is only operating at 222 MHz due to battery life issues, perhaps it would have been better to target that performance level from the beginning. This is one area where Nintendo has the right formula. They've always required battery life to meet a minimum duration before allowing performance to be increased in the design phase.

The UMD is not inherently a bad thing but they could have done much to overcome the loading issues by supporting flash memory caching from the beginning. (If ever.) The UMD movie business could have been a fine sideline if they had been realistic and treated it a lesser product to the DVD and priced accordingly. Nothing over $10. This would mean that many releases would wait until long after the DVD version before the UMD appeared but would that really be a severe handicap? The nature of the product is such that users are likely to focus on items they can wait over and over again. Unless Sony partnered with the big rental chains, there wasn't that much need for day and date simulataneous UMD and DVD realeses.

The only way Sony could win now if Nintendo threw in the towel and left the handheld and console market, Nintendo Are the masters of handheld's we were playing basically playing on graphics that were 1986 graphics right up to 2001, and look how many better graphics machines tried to stop it

Game gear
Turbo express
Game.com (never stood a chance lol )
Neo geo pocket/Color
Lynx 1/2

And the Gameboy still smashed.

Same with the gba but not as much competition there was
Gamepark 32

And with the DS
there is
Gpx2
And Psp

Now all the machines ive mentioned were graphically well maybe gpx2 werent but the rest were much more advanced machines but nintendo still left all those companies basically bankrupt

I don't like movies on my PSP anyway. I've never watched a movie on my PSP, even the free copy of Spider Man 2. It's not bad to play a game that was meant to be on a tiny screen but movies were never made to be watched on such a small screen.

[quote name='Strell']The war is over. It has been over for a while now.

There's lots of problems in your argument. Namely, you're thinking the PSP is going to somehow gain enough support to then overtake the DS in terms of game library (quantity wise, not necessarily quality wise). This won't happen for a lot of reasons, namely that the DS is too far ahead in Japan where the majority of developers are.

Also, as we've seen with the GBA/GC, connectivity between a console and it's portable counterpart is never a system seller. Never. It doesn't help that the best Sony has shown is a rearview mirror in GTA HD, which absolutely no one gives a shit about. Not to mention that the PS3 will actually pull attention away from the PSP. All Sony is doing to counter this is releasing an emulator, and frankly, that's not enough to keep people at bay, interested, or attract enough new blood. It'll bring some and salvage some, but it's a bandaid on a cracked skull.

You're moving into early stages of delusion, brought upon by refusal.

As epobirs pointed out, it can't even make money for Sony, let alone take on the DS. That's the problem here. One of their big moneymakers (UMD) is dead, and the software isn't moving as quickly as should be needed for profit.

It's not going to happen.[/QUOTE]



so the only thing the psp can do is be a rear view mirror... because if played, mp3s, movies, games, goes on line (out the box), has gps, camera, uses the ps3 as a location free player where you can access your content, and finally has games that when done right, the DS will NEVER be able to match (ex. Tekken DR, Grand Theft Auto, Lcs, and VCS,) nobody gives a shit about all that. wouldn't it be nice to pick plays in Madden from your psp, (while playing the ps3 version), or using it as a map display, or car radio during GTAIV. The psp is going to be a nice cheap option to develop for, if you don't want to do ps3...
It's so funny how DS fans, want to end the fight, lets see how Killzone, Metal Gear Solid, Gunpey, Lumines II, Vice City stories; lets see how some of these blockbuster games do...

.. tell konami make a Castlevania symphony of the Night II for the psp... (and watch all the DS fanboys get angry),

what new games does the DS have coming out?

Why would they go through all the work of making a sequel to SotN when they're just going to emulate the original? By the time they get around to making a sequel, the PSP might be dead.

[quote name='Thomas96']so the only thing the psp can do is be a rear view mirror... because if played, mp3s, movies, games, goes on line (out the box), has gps, camera, uses the ps3 as a location free player where you can access your content, and finally has games that when done right, the DS will NEVER be able to match (ex. Tekken DR, Grand Theft Auto, Lcs, and VCS,) nobody gives a shit about all that. wouldn't it be nice to pick plays in Madden from your psp, (while playing the ps3 version), or using it as a map display, or car radio during GTAIV. The psp is going to be a nice cheap option to develop for, if you don't want to do ps3...
It's so funny how DS fans, want to end the fight, lets see how Killzone, Metal Gear Solid, Gunpey, Lumines II, Vice City stories; lets see how some of these blockbuster games do...

.. tell konami make a Castlevania symphony of the Night II for the psp... (and watch all the DS fanboys get angry),

what new games does the DS have coming out?[/QUOTE]

Again I say you are delusional, and possibly need a few remedial reading classes.

I never said it only is a rear-view mirror, but that is the only thing they've showcased as far as interaction with the PS3 goes. I'm sure there's more things in the works - definitely media capabilities - but from a gameplay standpoint, it's weak. And it's weak because it is in the beginning stages. But you don't trot out a high powered machine and then tack on a me-too experience with it's handheld little brother and wow people.

Now if they had said something else, we'd be at a different juncture. And since they will say more things as time goes on, we will get there soon enough.

However, this is Sony's first real attempt at such a thing (the little memory card portable thing from years back notwithstanding), and as such they have a lot to learn. As they have learned with the PSP, you can't just throw a bunch of high powered machinery together and forget the small things such as battery life and high profile games from third parties.

You keep clinging to this "well it can do games the DS can't ever do." You're right. It can't. And the DS can do the same. So unless you want me to sound "fanboyish" and list games and reasons why the DS can perform gamewise as well as the PSP, you need to realize they are different experiences. If I were acting like a fanboy in this thread, there is where I'd pull out "Omfg, Trauma Centers is teh rocks, where is that on yur PSP?" And other such nonsense.

In reality the PSP caters to the PS2 crowd with a bunch of big name console like games like Daxter, where as the DS is attacking a completely different crowd. How well you think those strategies work independently relies on how much you want to pit the systems directly head to head, or compare their userbases. Both of those are pretty unreliable, as the tangible evidence can't overcome personal, relative experience. In other words, the DS has a larger user base, but that doesn't make it better if the person in question just wants to play Monster Hunter on the go.

The options you go on to highlight - picking plays in Madden, using it as a map in racing games, etc - have already been done by Nintendo. In fact, more has been done already with the GBA/GC, but as we have seen, no one really gave a shit. In fact, it was universally denounced as one of the worst things Nintendo tried to pull off. Whereas you are trumpeting them as gaming innovations and remarkable ideas, Nintendo already went down that road, and no one cared. And this is with a userbase that is equivalent to double the PSP and DS combined. 'Course, it requires the other half - that being the console - and it was universally thought that a GBA owner probably owned a GC, or vice versa. But that proved false - it was merely idealistic.

GTA has already failed to spur sales as we've seen, and half the people who were interested in it just waited for the PS2 version. Lumines is nice. Gunpey, unless I'm mistaken, is coming to the GBA or DS as well. MGS might be a big seller but it's difficult to tell.

Konami already made C:SOTN 2. It was called Dawn of Sorrows, it was on the DS, and the sequel is heading to the DS as well in about a month or so. And here's a history lesson for you - Iga (the head director of the C series) hates 2D. Hates it. And he hates making them for portable systems. The only reason he does it is because his 3D incarnations have tanked (both in sales and general gameplay) because his team apparently can't figure it the f*ck out. Only recently has he even admitted that 2D has life left in it, contradicting the last 4-5 years of him saying over and over about how "3D is totally awesome." In other words, understand Iga can (and will) only make 1 2D game at a time. I'm sure there's always a possibility, but I highly, highly doubt it.

As for your last comment, that's just pathetic. That's easily the most fanboy thing said in this thread. I'd count the number of games coming out, but you'll dismiss them I'm sure.

You keep defending your thoughts with "well the DS fanboys this and the DS fanboys that" when the ironic thing is that you keep spitting out tons of fanboy propoganda. Continue to hold onto the hope that the PSP is going to overtake the DS, and I'll continue to hold out on the GC outselling the PS2. Or hell, the Xbox for that matter.

Sony did what they always do. They throw a bunch of specs in a package and then worry about the rest of it later. Battery life, load times, controls, and games should have been top on the priority list. It is pretty obvious that these weren't. I do play my PSP from time to time and I do find it annoying how often I need to charge it. I find the load times annoying and end up buying most of the games based on the ones that have very little.... which in the end limits what games I will buy. The controls work well for some games but others they are a complete mess which also limit what I'll buy.

Sony has been trying to shove memory sticks down our throats for years...so if they are so great why not give us games on em? Yes UMD is a lot more cost effective but we all know which work out better in a handheld. Memory stick caching would have been a good idea as well.

I know some believe that the PSP wasn't up against the DS because the specs were completely different but in this market its always one against the other. I really believe that Nintendo finally is starting to look beyond the curve where as Sony's game is to steal ideas that have been used and proven to work. They didn't do that in the same way as they did with the PS2 and it shows. DS wins.

[quote name='Thomas96']so the only thing the psp can do is be a rear view mirror... because if played, mp3s, movies, games, goes on line (out the box), has gps, camera, uses the ps3 as a location free player where you can access your content, and finally has games that when done right, the DS will NEVER be able to match (ex. Tekken DR, Grand Theft Auto, Lcs, and VCS,) nobody gives a shit about all that. wouldn't it be nice to pick plays in Madden from your psp, (while playing the ps3 version), or using it as a map display, or car radio during GTAIV. The psp is going to be a nice cheap option to develop for, if you don't want to do ps3...
It's so funny how DS fans, want to end the fight, lets see how Killzone, Metal Gear Solid, Gunpey, Lumines II, Vice City stories; lets see how some of these blockbuster games do...

.. tell konami make a Castlevania symphony of the Night II for the psp... (and watch all the DS fanboys get angry),

what new games does the DS have coming out?[/QUOTE]

Well... Gunpey for one

Beyond that though, Castlevania: Potrait of Ruin (aka Symphony of the Night's spiritual successor), Yoshi's Island 2, Phoenix Wright 2, Pokemon Diamond and Pearl, Elite Beat Agents (US Ouendan), Pokemon Ranger, Final Fantasy III, Winning Eleven, Kirby Squeak Squad, and a plethora more of games. Each one of those games sans Winning Eleven has nothing comperable to it this generation on home consoles. Every game you've mentioned (with the exception of Gunpey which isn't a system seller), GTA, Luminese, Metal Gear, etc etc will be playable on the PS2 in some form by the end of the year.

It doesn't matter what the PSP can do at this point. Until Sony is able to sell people on the games the DS will continuiously beat the shit out of the PSP. It's not that DS fans want to end the fight. The fight has ended, and you're just unwilling to recognize that it's over.

Furthermore the original IPs besides Luminese for the PSP have failed to catch on. Loco Roco flopped in the US saleswise, and WTF is considered almost universally inferior to the Wario Ware franchise. Even games that take things in a different direction like Ac!d are plagued with their limited appeal despite being good games. A game like Phoenix Wright gets a cult following because it's something nobody has heard of that has a limited but passionate audience. Any passion that the public would feel about MGA is undone simply because it's such a departure from the core series that only would appeal to a small audience if the MGS liscence isn't attached.

Oh and Killzone is pretty crappy for the PSP if the demo is any indication. It's Metal Gear Jr....

Plus Trauma Center does R0xs Strell. You best recognize Strell.

[quote name='Strell']Again I say you are delusional, and possibly need a few remedial reading classes.

I never said it only is a rear-view mirror, but that is the only thing they've showcased as far as interaction with the PS3 goes. I'm sure there's more things in the works - definitely media capabilities - but from a gameplay standpoint, it's weak. And it's weak because it is in the beginning stages. But you don't trot out a high powered machine and then tack on a me-too experience with it's handheld little brother and wow people.

Now if they had said something else, we'd be at a different juncture. And since they will say more things as time goes on, we will get there soon enough.

However, this is Sony's first real attempt at such a thing (the little memory card portable thing from years back notwithstanding), and as such they have a lot to learn. As they have learned with the PSP, you can't just throw a bunch of high powered machinery together and forget the small things such as battery life and high profile games from third parties.

You keep clinging to this "well it can do games the DS can't ever do." You're right. It can't. And the DS can do the same. So unless you want me to sound "fanboyish" and list games and reasons why the DS can perform gamewise as well as the PSP, you need to realize they are different experiences. If I were acting like a fanboy in this thread, there is where I'd pull out "Omfg, Trauma Centers is teh rocks, where is that on yur PSP?" And other such nonsense.

In reality the PSP caters to the PS2 crowd with a bunch of big name console like games like Daxter, where as the DS is attacking a completely different crowd. How well you think those strategies work independently relies on how much you want to pit the systems directly head to head, or compare their userbases. Both of those are pretty unreliable, as the tangible evidence can't overcome personal, relative experience. In other words, the DS has a larger user base, but that doesn't make it better if the person in question just wants to play Monster Hunter on the go.

The options you go on to highlight - picking plays in Madden, using it as a map in racing games, etc - have already been done by Nintendo. In fact, more has been done already with the GBA/GC, but as we have seen, no one really gave a shit. In fact, it was universally denounced as one of the worst things Nintendo tried to pull off. Whereas you are trumpeting them as gaming innovations and remarkable ideas, Nintendo already went down that road, and no one cared. And this is with a userbase that is equivalent to double the PSP and DS combined. 'Course, it requires the other half - that being the console - and it was universally thought that a GBA owner probably owned a GC, or vice versa. But that proved false - it was merely idealistic.

GTA has already failed to spur sales as we've seen, and half the people who were interested in it just waited for the PS2 version. Lumines is nice. Gunpey, unless I'm mistaken, is coming to the GBA or DS as well. MGS might be a big seller but it's difficult to tell.

Konami already made C:SOTN 2. It was called Dawn of Sorrows, it was on the DS, and the sequel is heading to the DS as well in about a month or so. And here's a history lesson for you - Iga (the head director of the C series) hates 2D. Hates it. And he hates making them for portable systems. The only reason he does it is because his 3D incarnations have tanked (both in sales and general gameplay) because his team apparently can't figure it the f*ck out. Only recently has he even admitted that 2D has life left in it, contradicting the last 4-5 years of him saying over and over about how "3D is totally awesome." In other words, understand Iga can (and will) only make 1 2D game at a time. I'm sure there's always a possibility, but I highly, highly doubt it.

As for your last comment, that's just pathetic. That's easily the most fanboy thing said in this thread. I'd count the number of games coming out, but you'll dismiss them I'm sure.

You keep defending your thoughts with "well the DS fanboys this and the DS fanboys that" when the ironic thing is that you keep spitting out tons of fanboy propoganda. Continue to hold onto the hope that the PSP is going to overtake the DS, and I'll continue to hold out on the GC outselling the PS2. Or hell, the Xbox for that matter.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for reading and writing classes even us college grads need a refresher course... hey you love the DS yet, you're in a PSP group thread... I know you like the PSP, and that's why you're here. Granted the psp could do some things better, and it may never beat the DS, but in actuality, it's a great handheld system.

p.s. please proofread all of my postings around cag.com.

[quote name='Strell']Again I say you are delusional, and possibly need a few remedial reading classes.

I never said it only is a rear-view mirror, but that is the only thing they've showcased as far as interaction with the PS3 goes. I'm sure there's more things in the works - definitely media capabilities - but from a gameplay standpoint, it's weak. And it's weak because it is in the beginning stages. But you don't trot out a high powered machine and then tack on a me-too experience with it's handheld little brother and wow people.

Now if they had said something else, we'd be at a different juncture. And since they will say more things as time goes on, we will get there soon enough.

However, this is Sony's first real attempt at such a thing (the little memory card portable thing from years back notwithstanding), and as such they have a lot to learn. As they have learned with the PSP, you can't just throw a bunch of high powered machinery together and forget the small things such as battery life and high profile games from third parties.

You keep clinging to this "well it can do games the DS can't ever do." You're right. It can't. And the DS can do the same. So unless you want me to sound "fanboyish" and list games and reasons why the DS can perform gamewise as well as the PSP, you need to realize they are different experiences. If I were acting like a fanboy in this thread, there is where I'd pull out "Omfg, Trauma Centers is teh rocks, where is that on yur PSP?" And other such nonsense.

In reality the PSP caters to the PS2 crowd with a bunch of big name console like games like Daxter, where as the DS is attacking a completely different crowd. How well you think those strategies work independently relies on how much you want to pit the systems directly head to head, or compare their userbases. Both of those are pretty unreliable, as the tangible evidence can't overcome personal, relative experience. In other words, the DS has a larger user base, but that doesn't make it better if the person in question just wants to play Monster Hunter on the go.

The options you go on to highlight - picking plays in Madden, using it as a map in racing games, etc - have already been done by Nintendo. In fact, more has been done already with the GBA/GC, but as we have seen, no one really gave a shit. In fact, it was universally denounced as one of the worst things Nintendo tried to pull off. Whereas you are trumpeting them as gaming innovations and remarkable ideas, Nintendo already went down that road, and no one cared. And this is with a userbase that is equivalent to double the PSP and DS combined. 'Course, it requires the other half - that being the console - and it was universally thought that a GBA owner probably owned a GC, or vice versa. But that proved false - it was merely idealistic.

GTA has already failed to spur sales as we've seen, and half the people who were interested in it just waited for the PS2 version. Lumines is nice. Gunpey, unless I'm mistaken, is coming to the GBA or DS as well. MGS might be a big seller but it's difficult to tell.

Konami already made C:SOTN 2. It was called Dawn of Sorrows, it was on the DS, and the sequel is heading to the DS as well in about a month or so. And here's a history lesson for you - Iga (the head director of the C series) hates 2D. Hates it. And he hates making them for portable systems. The only reason he does it is because his 3D incarnations have tanked (both in sales and general gameplay) because his team apparently can't figure it the f*ck out. Only recently has he even admitted that 2D has life left in it, contradicting the last 4-5 years of him saying over and over about how "3D is totally awesome." In other words, understand Iga can (and will) only make 1 2D game at a time. I'm sure there's always a possibility, but I highly, highly doubt it.

As for your last comment, that's just pathetic. That's easily the most fanboy thing said in this thread. I'd count the number of games coming out, but you'll dismiss them I'm sure.

You keep defending your thoughts with "well the DS fanboys this and the DS fanboys that" when the ironic thing is that you keep spitting out tons of fanboy propoganda. Continue to hold onto the hope that the PSP is going to overtake the DS, and I'll continue to hold out on the GC outselling the PS2. Or hell, the Xbox for that matter.[/QUOTE]




gameplay weak on the psp - I don't think so... the only difference between the psp and the ds are the amount of games the DS gets, and the touch screen.

It's not sony's fault that they aren't getting great games from third parties, it's their own faults, for trying to use the PSP as a ps2 port.


The DS isn't attacking Nintendo fans with their mario kart, pokemon, metroid fustion, and pinball, Mario, Yoshi, Mario 64, Star Fox DS, games that happen to be strong Nintendo franchises. - I'm saying this in resonse to you saying that "
In reality the PSP caters to the PS2 crowd with a bunch of big name console like games like Daxter, where as the DS is attacking a completely different crowd."



"Whereas you are trumpeting them as gaming innovations and remarkable ideas" I never said that, I was only giving suggestions about some benefits to having the psp work with the ps3. Not many games worked with the ds,or gameboy advance, and I don't remember a madden on any nintendo system that worked with any gameboy or ds system. If I'm wrong please list what version (year) of madden had that feature.



"GTA has already failed to spur sales as we've seen, and half the people who were interested in it just waited for the PS2 version. Lumines is nice. Gunpey, unless I'm mistaken, is coming to the GBA or DS as well. MGS might be a big seller but it's difficult to tell"

games that fail don't get sequels (re: GTA LCS), and the psp version was better as you could add your own soundtrack to the game, another feature that isn't availabe for any game on the DS, and on the ps2.



"Konami already made C:SOTN 2. It was called Dawn of Sorrows, it was on the DS, and the sequel is heading to the DS as well in about a month or so. And here's a history lesson for you - Iga (the head director of the C series) hates 2D. Hates it. And he hates making them for portable systems. The only reason he does it is because his 3D incarnations have tanked (both in sales and general gameplay) because his team apparently can't figure it the f*ck out. Only recently has he even admitted that 2D has life left in it, contradicting the last 4-5 years of him saying over and over about how "3D is totally awesome." In other words, understand Iga can (and will) only make 1 2D game at a time. I'm sure there's always a possibility, but I highly, highly doubt it."

I like the lesson, but where are your references, where did you read that the head director of the C series hates 2d? The DS has been very fortunate in having at least 4 2d Castlevania games, and if that was true, then Konami wouldn't have put pressure on Sony when the ps1 was released to do Symphony of the Night, and if you can remember, at the time that Sotn was released, Sony was not interested in having 2d games on their Playstation system. Iga - I guess referring to Koji Igarashi, who in an interview w/ gamasutra on aug 2005, said that he loves 2d games, and that he'd love to make a 2d game for any system/console even the psp. (here's the ref: http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20050815/sheffield_01.shtml) and stop saying lies to give the illusion what you say is true.


The main thing is, I love my psp, (don't get me wrong I love the ds, and my original b&w gameboy) I just want it to get some good games and give birth to new franchises like Lumines, and hopefully many more.. the psp probably won't outsell the DS(overall) but damn, lets give the PSP some big guns and let it do what it do... give us a new exclusive Castlevania(2d), a new 2d streets of rage, or Shadow dancer... etc. Just give it something to fight with.. Einhander... maybe I'll play that next month!!!


you hating on the PSP, but the truth is... you LOVE the psp.

It's like two different people just posted one after another.

Two very special people.

[quote name='furyk']Well... Gunpey for one

Beyond that though, Castlevania: Potrait of Ruin (aka Symphony of the Night's spiritual successor), Yoshi's Island 2, Phoenix Wright 2, Pokemon Diamond and Pearl, Elite Beat Agents (US Ouendan), Pokemon Ranger, Final Fantasy III, Winning Eleven, Kirby Squeak Squad, and a plethora more of games. Each one of those games sans Winning Eleven has nothing comperable to it this generation on home consoles. Every game you've mentioned (with the exception of Gunpey which isn't a system seller), GTA, Luminese, Metal Gear, etc etc will be playable on the PS2 in some form by the end of the year.

It doesn't matter what the PSP can do at this point. Until Sony is able to sell people on the games the DS will continuiously beat the shit out of the PSP. It's not that DS fans want to end the fight. The fight has ended, and you're just unwilling to recognize that it's over.

Furthermore the original IPs besides Luminese for the PSP have failed to catch on. Loco Roco flopped in the US saleswise, and WTF is considered almost universally inferior to the Wario Ware franchise. Even games that take things in a different direction like Ac!d are plagued with their limited appeal despite being good games. A game like Phoenix Wright gets a cult following because it's something nobody has heard of that has a limited but passionate audience. Any passion that the public would feel about MGA is undone simply because it's such a departure from the core series that only would appeal to a small audience if the MGS liscence isn't attached.

Oh and Killzone is pretty crappy for the PSP if the demo is any indication. It's Metal Gear Jr....

Plus Trauma Center does R0xs Strell. You best recognize Strell.[/QUOTE]


















the DS has the same flare that the ps1 had during it's hey day. They have a great library and innovative games, that are just fun, I bought the DS for new super mario (and star fox, which wasn't even out yet), and I've been wanting to play phonix wright, and trauma center real bad! Those games are great titles, the kind of titles that you get when you have a good user base cause developers aren't affraid to take chances with the system.

These are the type of games I want to see on the psp - Locoroco! The variety that the psp has is just ps2 ports and that's not fair to the system, and I think that developers should make more new games, like lumines. I think that sony has done their part with the psp, it's really up to the game developers now, sony has no control over what games are made for the system. Plus it's not like sony has the benefit of first party titles to help push the system, they're almost totally dependent on third party titles. And it's not fair to call a game crappy (killzone) based on a short demo, and some people say it's pretty good...

at this point what harm is it, for some developer to give the psp something decent like pheonix wright, something fresh, instead of damn ports - parapper, gitaroo man, the warriors, family guy, spider man 2, etc.


basically, instead of saying the fight is over, I want to give the psp some great games and lets just see what impact it has on the market... what I'm starting to see is that DS fans (not you) don't like that, and don't want to see that... and I'm wondering now.. why is that? what are they worried about if a couple of decent games are released on a system that they considered dead and beaten? I wonder.....