The Original Post:
I sold a ps3 on ebay. Mailed it off (along side 3 others and a Wii all packaged the same way) it arrived at it's destination "damaged" according to the buyer. The buyer states that the box is damaged and that he wants a full refund of the auction closing price. The package was insured but the seller refuses to take the insurance route. He let slip that he intended to sell this to a friend but now said friend no longer wants it because the box is damaged. He filed a claim with paypal now. I think what's happened here is he was going to sell it but his friend came to his senses because it's so easy to get ps3's in stores now and just bought one at a human being price or decided paying his buddy more than the 1025USD he paid for it was ridiculous. So the claim is currently under review by paypal. Am I screwed or is paypal going to actually see through this guys bullshit and make him claim the insurance if he wants his money back.
Updates...
December.5th 2006
dispute opened with paypal
January.25th 2007
paypal rules against me buyer has to refundJust got the e-mail today AFTER OVER TWO
ING MONTHS of waiting. And they decided to rule in favour of the buyer. So I have to refund his money and he will probably send me back either a perfectly fine ps3 or one beaten to shit with a hammer just as him being a jackass. It's been too long for me to get a refund or file for insurance now. This is completely unacceptable on paypals behalf as I have done nothing wrong.
February.3rd
magiic gets mono
February.6th
I can't believe it. After all this the guy never sent paypal a tracking number within the ten day limit they set so the case is closed. My account is unlocked for all those funds. I can't believe the bullet I dodged there. w000t
February.13th (I still have mono)
The playstation 3 just showed up at my door about 10 minutes ago. I refused it though. It was going to cost me $185 to accept the package. And I had no real way of telling if it was actually a ps3.
Note: I had the pleasure of answering the door when the UPS guy came wearing only my boxers and after having not showered in probably a week as I was still mostly bed ridden from mono. Poor UPS guy. Plus I had to decide what the to do with this package while heavily medicated. I just declined because I certainly did not have $180 something cash on me.
February.19th (still sick)
I just checked my paypal account. Apparently the buyer appealed the case (After it closed because he failed to meet paypals terms). So now as of Valentines Day (Feb.14) the case is back under review. Fortunately my account wasn't refrozen for the $1025USD. I've emptied my account now again though. I had like $300USD in my paypal account I'd rather not lose.
EDIT: I just noticed it said that the SELLER appealed the case. WTF is going on here.
February.20th (still having the mono)
PayPal has concluded the investigation of your claim.
Transaction Details
------------------------------
Transaction Date: Nov 20, 2006
Transaction Amount: -$1,025.00 USD
Your Transaction ID: *****
Buyer's Transaction ID: ******
Case Number: *****
Buyer's Name: ---
Buyer's Email: -----
------------------------------
The buyer has provided the following valid tracking information to verify
shipment of merchandise to you.
Tracking Number: 1Z W69 9W9 68 4338 184 3
Shipping Company: UPS
Status: Refused
Since the tracking information shows the merchandise was delivered to you,
we request that you send the buyer a full refund for the transaction. It is
against our User Agreement for you to possess both the item and the money;
therefore, we are respectfully requesting that you process this refund
within three days. Failure to do will result in PayPal returning the funds
on your behalf to the buyer.
------------------------
This is unbelievable. They even acknowledge that it has been refused so they know I don't have it. Although they haven't froze my money again. Nor did they reverse my withdrawl of funds. And the case is no longer showing in my resolution centre. But seriously WTF I can't wrap my head around this anymore. Check out the tracking on the package, there is a short novel written about this package. I can't understand half of what it says but it still says it's in the province.
I'm going to give it a day or two to see what happens. Then call paypal.
February.24th (not as sick anymore)
Ok this is getting ridiculous. Paypal just refunded him all of his money. So my account has a huge negative balance again. I need to call paypal now. Any idea what I should do to outline my case so I get the money back.
February.24th (e-mail to paypal)
Dear Genevieve/Whomever It May Concern,
I am e-mailing in response to the e-mail I received stating that a refund had been issued on my behalf in regards to case number PP-***-***-*** involving myself and a Mr. ******. This refund has been issued in error as the last e-mail I received before the one stating a refund had been issued stated that I was in violation of Paypal's user agreement by being in possession of both the item in question (ONE Playstation 3) and Mr.****'s money at the same time. However according the same e-mail Paypal acknowledged that the package had been refused as per the UPS tracking number (1Z W69 9W9 68 4338 184 3). The status of the package can be checked at http://www.ups.com to show that I do not in fact have the item in my possession. The reason I refused the package was that Mr.**** failed to follow Paypal's guidelines for mailing the package back to me. As per Paypal's guidelines he was required to mail the package back in it's original condition and he was to cover all costs in mailing it back. Unfortunately Mr.***** neglected to do this and when the item arrived at my place of residence the UPS Delivery Personnel informed me that there was $187.52CAD COD (Cash on Delivery). As such I refused the package because Mr.**** was required to return the package to me at ZERO expense to myself. He failed to do such and as a result I informed the UPS representative that I wished to "Return To Sender" the package. The tracking number for this package confirms that I refused the package and that it is not in my possession. Currently you have issued a refund to Mr.* on false pretences that I have the item hand, however Mr.***** is currently the one in violation of Paypal's User Agreement as he now has the money in hand and will soon have the item in hand as well. As stated in the last e-mail an individual cannot be in possession of both the item and the money therefore I respectfully request that the refund be reversed and my Paypal account be returned to a balance of $0.00 as it was before the refund was issued.
Thank You,
Respectfully,
Ryan Laker
March.6 (almost my birthday, hooray!)
Forgot to update this for anyone still interested in the status of my (mis)adventure with paypal. I called paypal a few days ago and talked to someone who looked at my stuff and said she had passed it on to the appeals department and someone from there would get back to me. So I am awaiting to here back on that. Im giving them till friday before I call again.
March.9 (my birthday
, happy 17th to me)
I just checked my paypal account and the claim has shown back up and is "Under Review". I was going to call them but it says they need no further info from me and will contact me if they require any so I guess I will leave it for now.
March.13
I just filed a complaint with the BBB. I'm hoping maybe they can speed this up as one poster suggested.
March.15
Well I got an e-mail back from the BBB saying they have contacted Paypal and have given paypal 20 days to provide a written response which they will forward to me. Guess we will see what happens next. I hope this gets sorted out soon. I really don't feel like opening up a third bank account so I can use paypal again.
March.20
So I got an e-mail from paypal yesterday morning requesting I send them proof of the COD charges so I did. I called UPS talked to a UPS representative who faxed me all the invoice stuff from the package. Then I made up a coversheet as per paypals e-mail faxed it to them literally within in hour of them requesting. Last night after work I check my account and the case is gone. They denied my appeal and closed it. I am thinking of calling them and asking WHAT THE IS GOING ON. Still no word from the BBB in regards to my complaint against paypal either.
March.20 (later)
Ugh Paypal just re-opened the case saying they have recieved my documents. I swear to god one hand never knows what the other is doing over there.
March.29
I got Paypals response from the BBB. They basically told me in one page that I amed and I can take it up with UPS or eBay. They completely ignored the CoD charge claim and made no mention of the fact that I faxed in the proof of the CoD charges they requested and just said that I refused it because claimed I never ordered (thats what it said on the UPS tracking). I sent a response back to the BBB again about the CoD thing and also how I faxed them the info they requested yet they have still done nothing. I'm waiting for a response from Paypal or the BBB now.
April.4
Got an e-mail from the BBB telling me paypal says Im SOL. So I'm just going to give up on this I think. Paypal isn't getting a dime out of me. Paypal still says my case is being reived though in my account resolution center.
April.11
Well it's over now. Paypal has decided once and for all I lose. Game over. They sent me an e-mail saying Imed in a few paragraphs. What irks me though is they completely ignored the stuff I faxed into them. Didnt even mention the failure of the buyer to pay all shipping and handling fees along with marking it as a return. So whatever, the guy got a free PS3 that pisses me off but I didnt lose any money and they won't get a dime out of me. So if they want their money back they can get it from the buyer. Also to anyone wishing to block him his ebay ID is.... acosta2007
April.12
I'm pretty choked. I'm closing my bank account today at lunch.
I also e-mailed them telling them they may aswell close my account because they won't get a dime from me. Doubt they will though. I'll probably start another paypal account but it will be strictly for buying or stuff or selling on CAG. I don't think I will be selling on ebay anymore. Just not worth the risk.
May.16
Just got an e-mail saying it's my last warning before the pursue other collection remedies. I have ten days apparently.
July.12
I got a call from collections today. Well actually it was from a gentleman from Quebec who had business to discuss with me regarding case # something something something. I'm positive it's collections as there is no other reason someone from Quebec would be calling and asking for to discuss "important business". Glad no one answered it, we shall continue to ignore calls from them I think for now. See where it goes.
March.11 2008
I got a call from a new collections agency today. This time they are located in a real province (Ontario). I guess we'll see what comes of it. It was an automated message about "important business matters"
I sold a ps3 on ebay. Mailed it off (along side 3 others and a Wii all packaged the same way) it arrived at it's destination "damaged" according to the buyer. The buyer states that the box is damaged and that he wants a full refund of the auction closing price. The package was insured but the seller refuses to take the insurance route. He let slip that he intended to sell this to a friend but now said friend no longer wants it because the box is damaged. He filed a claim with paypal now. I think what's happened here is he was going to sell it but his friend came to his senses because it's so easy to get ps3's in stores now and just bought one at a human being price or decided paying his buddy more than the 1025USD he paid for it was ridiculous. So the claim is currently under review by paypal. Am I screwed or is paypal going to actually see through this guys bullshit and make him claim the insurance if he wants his money back.
Updates...
December.5th 2006
dispute opened with paypal
January.25th 2007
paypal rules against me buyer has to refundJust got the e-mail today AFTER OVER TWO
ING MONTHS of waiting. And they decided to rule in favour of the buyer. So I have to refund his money and he will probably send me back either a perfectly fine ps3 or one beaten to shit with a hammer just as him being a jackass. It's been too long for me to get a refund or file for insurance now. This is completely unacceptable on paypals behalf as I have done nothing wrong.February.3rd
magiic gets mono
February.6th
I can't believe it. After all this the guy never sent paypal a tracking number within the ten day limit they set so the case is closed. My account is unlocked for all those funds. I can't believe the bullet I dodged there. w000t
February.13th (I still have mono
)The playstation 3 just showed up at my door about 10 minutes ago. I refused it though. It was going to cost me $185 to accept the package. And I had no real way of telling if it was actually a ps3.
Note: I had the pleasure of answering the door when the UPS guy came wearing only my boxers and after having not showered in probably a week as I was still mostly bed ridden from mono. Poor UPS guy. Plus I had to decide what the
to do with this package while heavily medicated. I just declined because I certainly did not have $180 something cash on me.February.19th (still sick
)I just checked my paypal account. Apparently the buyer appealed the case (After it closed because he failed to meet paypals terms). So now as of Valentines Day (Feb.14) the case is back under review. Fortunately my account wasn't refrozen for the $1025USD. I've emptied my account now again though. I had like $300USD in my paypal account I'd rather not lose.
EDIT: I just noticed it said that the SELLER appealed the case. WTF is going on here.
February.20th (still having the mono
)PayPal has concluded the investigation of your claim.
Transaction Details
------------------------------
Transaction Date: Nov 20, 2006
Transaction Amount: -$1,025.00 USD
Your Transaction ID: *****
Buyer's Transaction ID: ******
Case Number: *****
Buyer's Name: ---
Buyer's Email: -----
------------------------------
The buyer has provided the following valid tracking information to verify
shipment of merchandise to you.
Tracking Number: 1Z W69 9W9 68 4338 184 3
Shipping Company: UPS
Status: Refused
Since the tracking information shows the merchandise was delivered to you,
we request that you send the buyer a full refund for the transaction. It is
against our User Agreement for you to possess both the item and the money;
therefore, we are respectfully requesting that you process this refund
within three days. Failure to do will result in PayPal returning the funds
on your behalf to the buyer.
------------------------
This is unbelievable. They even acknowledge that it has been refused so they know I don't have it. Although they haven't froze my money again. Nor did they reverse my withdrawl of funds. And the case is no longer showing in my resolution centre. But seriously WTF I can't wrap my head around this anymore. Check out the tracking on the package, there is a short novel written about this package. I can't understand half of what it says but it still says it's in the province.
I'm going to give it a day or two to see what happens. Then call paypal.
February.24th (not as sick anymore
)Ok this is getting ridiculous. Paypal just refunded him all of his money. So my account has a huge negative balance again. I need to call paypal now. Any idea what I should do to outline my case so I get the money back.
February.24th (e-mail to paypal)
Dear Genevieve/Whomever It May Concern,
I am e-mailing in response to the e-mail I received stating that a refund had been issued on my behalf in regards to case number PP-***-***-*** involving myself and a Mr. ******. This refund has been issued in error as the last e-mail I received before the one stating a refund had been issued stated that I was in violation of Paypal's user agreement by being in possession of both the item in question (ONE Playstation 3) and Mr.****'s money at the same time. However according the same e-mail Paypal acknowledged that the package had been refused as per the UPS tracking number (1Z W69 9W9 68 4338 184 3). The status of the package can be checked at http://www.ups.com to show that I do not in fact have the item in my possession. The reason I refused the package was that Mr.**** failed to follow Paypal's guidelines for mailing the package back to me. As per Paypal's guidelines he was required to mail the package back in it's original condition and he was to cover all costs in mailing it back. Unfortunately Mr.***** neglected to do this and when the item arrived at my place of residence the UPS Delivery Personnel informed me that there was $187.52CAD COD (Cash on Delivery). As such I refused the package because Mr.**** was required to return the package to me at ZERO expense to myself. He failed to do such and as a result I informed the UPS representative that I wished to "Return To Sender" the package. The tracking number for this package confirms that I refused the package and that it is not in my possession. Currently you have issued a refund to Mr.* on false pretences that I have the item hand, however Mr.***** is currently the one in violation of Paypal's User Agreement as he now has the money in hand and will soon have the item in hand as well. As stated in the last e-mail an individual cannot be in possession of both the item and the money therefore I respectfully request that the refund be reversed and my Paypal account be returned to a balance of $0.00 as it was before the refund was issued.
Thank You,
Respectfully,
Ryan Laker
March.6 (almost my birthday, hooray!)
Forgot to update this for anyone still interested in the status of my (mis)adventure with paypal. I called paypal a few days ago and talked to someone who looked at my stuff and said she had passed it on to the appeals department and someone from there would get back to me. So I am awaiting to here back on that. Im giving them till friday before I call again.
March.9 (my birthday
, happy 17th to me)I just checked my paypal account and the claim has shown back up and is "Under Review". I was going to call them but it says they need no further info from me and will contact me if they require any so I guess I will leave it for now.
March.13
I just filed a complaint with the BBB. I'm hoping maybe they can speed this up as one poster suggested.
March.15
Well I got an e-mail back from the BBB saying they have contacted Paypal and have given paypal 20 days to provide a written response which they will forward to me. Guess we will see what happens next. I hope this gets sorted out soon. I really don't feel like opening up a third bank account so I can use paypal again.
March.20
So I got an e-mail from paypal yesterday morning requesting I send them proof of the COD charges so I did. I called UPS talked to a UPS representative who faxed me all the invoice stuff from the package. Then I made up a coversheet as per paypals e-mail faxed it to them literally within in hour of them requesting. Last night after work I check my account and the case is gone. They denied my appeal and closed it. I am thinking of calling them and asking WHAT THE
IS GOING ON. Still no word from the BBB in regards to my complaint against paypal either.March.20 (later)
Ugh Paypal just re-opened the case saying they have recieved my documents. I swear to god one hand never knows what the other is doing over there.
March.29
I got Paypals response from the BBB. They basically told me in one page that I am
ed and I can take it up with UPS or eBay. They completely ignored the CoD charge claim and made no mention of the fact that I faxed in the proof of the CoD charges they requested and just said that I refused it because claimed I never ordered (thats what it said on the UPS tracking). I sent a response back to the BBB again about the CoD thing and also how I faxed them the info they requested yet they have still done nothing. I'm waiting for a response from Paypal or the BBB now.April.4
Got an e-mail from the BBB telling me paypal says Im SOL. So I'm just going to give up on this I think. Paypal isn't getting a dime out of me. Paypal still says my case is being reived though in my account resolution center.
April.11
Well it's over now. Paypal has decided once and for all I lose. Game over. They sent me an e-mail saying Im
ed in a few paragraphs. What irks me though is they completely ignored the stuff I faxed into them. Didnt even mention the failure of the buyer to pay all shipping and handling fees along with marking it as a return. So whatever, the guy got a free PS3 that pisses me off but I didnt lose any money and they won't get a dime out of me. So if they want their money back they can get it from the buyer. Also to anyone wishing to block him his ebay ID is.... acosta2007April.12
I'm pretty choked. I'm closing my bank account today at lunch.
I also e-mailed them telling them they may aswell close my account because they won't get a dime from me. Doubt they will though. I'll probably start another paypal account but it will be strictly for buying or stuff or selling on CAG. I don't think I will be selling on ebay anymore. Just not worth the risk.
May.16
Just got an e-mail saying it's my last warning before the pursue other collection remedies. I have ten days apparently.
July.12
I got a call from collections today. Well actually it was from a gentleman from Quebec who had business to discuss with me regarding case # something something something. I'm positive it's collections as there is no other reason someone from Quebec would be calling and asking for to discuss "important business". Glad no one answered it, we shall continue to ignore calls from them I think for now. See where it goes.
March.11 2008
I got a call from a new collections agency today. This time they are located in a real province (Ontario). I guess we'll see what comes of it. It was an automated message about "important business matters"
