MMA (UFC, Strikeforce, Bellator, Invicta, etc.) Discussion Thread -- Version II

[quote name='tylerh1701']I'm definitely pulling Frankie, I really like the guy. Aldo is super scary but I actually think Frankie will win. I agree with Metal Militia on the Evans and Overeem fights, but I'm pulling for Uncle Creepy, I think he can take Benavidez.[/QUOTE]

This is why I don't gamble. I would have gone 0-5 on the main card tonight. Ouch.

The Evans/Nog fight was a joke. Either they both went in with absolutely no strategy, or they went in with the exact same strategy. I've never been a big Evans fan, at this point I don't even think he's a serious challenger in the LHW division anymore.

I pretty much echo the sentiments about Overeem. What a disappointing performance.

I think n8's comment above me nailed Frankie Edgar to a tee. I feel bad for the guy, but if his strategy is going to scrap out fights and do his best to take it to a decision, then this is exactly what's going to happen all the time. n8 makes a great point that Frankie needs to wear out bigger opponents without taking so much damage. He really got beat up in those first 2 rounds. I actually gave 3 and 4 to Frankie, and thought the 5th could have gone either way. I thought this fight was closer than Edgar/Bendo 1.

All in all, I was a little bit underwhelmed with the main card tonight. I enjoyed the action in the FX prelims quite a bit more.
 
Blackzillians looking like a fake ass rap clan, pure hype.

Apparently Anthony Pettis wants to drop in weight class and get his title shot against Aldo. Sign me up, that sounds like a sick fight to me. Really no other match ups left in featherweight for Aldo get my attention.
 
Pettis/Aldo is a very exciting fight, I am more excited about that one than Frankie because there is a great chance somebody is getting finished. Also, Aldo might not have the best kicks in this fight which is the first time I have seen that. Btw, last night was a weird ppv, Evans and Overeem was disappointing, Overeem should have won if he didn't act like a jackass so good for Bigfoot to pick up the win. Overeem is lucky that he did not have to get into the ring with Cain because it would have been worse, maybe now we will get the JDS/Overeem fight.
 
I need to watch the main event again, sober. I had Edgar edging Aldo out, 3-2. No robbery or anything, and most seem to think Aldo won. Also, damn at Evans and Overeem. Awful performances by both of them. Overeem needed that to happen to him...he'll learn not to be overconfident and to show some respect for your opponent.

I did horrible on my picks on Sherdog. 0-4 on my boosts. 6-11 overall and I only went 2-3 on the main card(Aldo and Benavidez were the ones I got right)
 
[quote name='shotgunshine']I need to watch the main event again, sober. I had Edgar edging Aldo out, 3-2. No robbery or anything, and most seem to think Aldo won. Also, damn at Evans and Overeem. Awful performances by both of them. Overeem needed that to happen to him...he'll learn not to be overconfident and to show some respect for your opponent.

I did horrible on my picks on Sherdog. 0-4 on my boosts. 6-11 overall and I only went 2-3 on the main card(Aldo and Benavidez were the ones I got right)[/QUOTE]

I guess the difference for me was that Frankie's wrestling felt non-existent compared to the Henderson fight. I know Aldo has great takedown defense, but the couple times Frankie did get him down, there just seemed to be no plan for keeping him there. I think that's where Frankie could wear out these bigger guys. He's proven he's strong enough to actually lift these guys up and slam them. So, if he spent the first round or two just grinding on them, it might keep him from getting into such a big hole to climb out of in the later rounds.

I'd almost tell Frankie to go train with Greg Jackson and GSP. Instead of trying to win the fight with what he does best, he needs to focus on what his opponent does worst (ala GSP). Who cares if you're a good striker if your opponent is a great striker? Frankie's physical talents are probably about at their peak. If he wants to reach that next level as a fighter, it's gotta be mental now. I still think he's good enough to beat Aldo, just like he was good enough to beat Henderson. He just has to make their key attributes work against them. Easier said than done, of course...but he's gotta figure something out before he starts to become the new Kenny Florian.
 
[quote name='MisterModest']Does Edgar get fired if he loses again? Four losses in a row, not a big draw...[/QUOTE]

Well...3 losses in a row in 3 titles fights. Not really a fair measurement of someone's "worth". If he was losing to Melvin Guillard or Clay Guida, then we could talk. In all honesty, the UFC needs to feed him an "easy" fight to help him build his confidence back up. If there's still a spot in the UFC for the likes of Matt Mitrione, Frankie Edgar sure as hell has a place.
 
I'm really surprised Overeem was beat like that.Felt like Alistair via R1 TKO/KO was a lock.Not to be like most people and say guys are overrated just because they lost one fight, but this really feels like a case of Overeem having been overrated.Possibly off the roids too :p.
 
[quote name='Magiblaze']I'm really surprised Overeem was beat like that.Felt like Alistair via R1 TKO/KO was a lock.Not to be like most people and say guys are overrated just because they lost one fight, but this really feels like a case of Overeem having been overrated.Possibly off the roids too :p.[/QUOTE]

Did you see the fight? He's not overrated. He's just full of himself. He was practically clowning in there against Silva. He had his hands down and was weaving around like he's Anderson Silva or something. If he hadn't fought like a damned idiot, he most likely would have won.
 
I did see the fight and do think hes overrated.He wasn't able to bully Bigfoot in the clinch and in the end his suspect chin came into play.Call it whatever you want, him being less shredded possibly off the PEDs or playing around,he didn't deserve to be considered as good as people thought he was.I was in the bandwagon and thought he was that good as well.
 
[quote name='Viol8tor']Blackzillians looking like a fake ass rap clan, pure hype.

Apparently Anthony Pettis wants to drop in weight class and get his title shot against Aldo. Sign me up, that sounds like a sick fight to me. Really no other match ups left in featherweight for Aldo get my attention.[/QUOTE]

I would love to see Aldo/Pettis, both because it should be a really good fight, and it gets one of the biggest threats to Bendo's title out of the division, even if it's just temporarily.

However, I don't think it's a great move for Pettis. I don't think he can beat Aldo, and would have a better shot at the Bendo/Melendez winner.

[quote name='MisterModest']Does Edgar get fired if he loses again? Four losses in a row, not a big draw...[/QUOTE]

Here's Dana's response to a very similar question posed to him yesterday.
 
Two things to never expect from Dana's twitter feed: 1) Class and 2) A straight answer.

It sounds like Frankie's job is safe for the time being, but notice the only thing that Dana's response makes 100% certain is that Dana really wanted to Internet bitch slap the fool.
 
I love Dana White. Sometimes he can be a little overly crass, but he's honest and not afraid to call out people being stupid. And saying Frankie should be fired from the UFC is stupid. Last time I checked, the last 2 guys he lost to are generally considered 2 of the top 6 pound-for-pound best fighters in the UFC. Frankie himself is usually ranked in the top 10.

I wish commissioners like Roger Goddell and David Stern were more like Dana White.
 
[quote name='ced']Two things to never expect from Dana's twitter feed: 1) Class and 2) A straight answer.

It sounds like Frankie's job is safe for the time being, but notice the only thing that Dana's response makes 100% certain is that Dana really wanted to Internet bitch slap the fool.[/QUOTE]

Oh, come on. That's a pretty funny response. People take Dana too seriously. Yes, he's the president of the premiere MMA company in the world, but he's also a regular dude. When I read stuff like that, I just think of one of my buddies being a smartass. I'm guessing the idea of firing Frankie after 3 very close title fights is so ridiculous to Dana, he felt it deserved a ridiculous response. Like I said, what Frankie really needs is a cool down period. He needs regular fights, no high stress...no media all up in his face, so he can get back to doing what he does best. Just leave the kid alone for awhile.
 
It's not just the losses, Edgar is not a good PPV draw. If he loses his next fight, especially if it's an "easy", "non-title" fight, then he's worthless as a draw.
 
[quote name='MisterModest']It's not just the losses, Edgar is not a good PPV draw. If he loses his next fight, especially if it's an "easy", "non-title" fight, then he's worthless as a draw.[/QUOTE]

So that means he should be fired? Why do guys like Stefan Struve, Vladimir Matyushenko, Alan Belcher, etc. have jobs? That's just a ridiculous leap going from "not a good PPV draw" to "cut him!" He's just been under the lights for too long and you can see he's tired. Give the guy a break.

I always refer to him as the champion that nobody wanted. Going all the way back to when he beat BJ Penn the first time, he was scrutinized. That was 7 fights ago. 7 main events. What fighter wouldn't be exhausted after going through that? I'm sure Dana would agree that he's earned a break. He still hasn't been finished in a fight either. At least let the guy get knocked out before you toss him to the curb.

In other news, Anderson Silva's managers have said that Silva would fight GSP at a catchweight. That makes the fight a lot more interesting to me. At least now, Silva is giving something up. He'll still be the bigger fighter, but would at least have the potential of being drained from his cut too. That's a much different fight than when he was wanting GSP to come up to 185. Crazy how cooperative Anderson has been lately.
 
^In regards to Silva, my guess is that it has something to do with the rumors of the new contract the UFC is trying to get him to sign. Kind of sounds like Silva will finally play ball, for the right amount of money.
 
[quote name='n8rockerasu']So that means he should be fired? Why do guys like Stefan Struve, Vladimir Matyushenko, Alan Belcher, etc. have jobs?[/QUOTE]
Not being an ass, but none of those guys were PPV main eventers, and none of them have ever lost more than twice in a row. Struve has never had a loss followed by another loss, Matyushenko's recent loss to Bader was his first consectutive loss, and Belcher has only lost twice in a row once, back in 2005.

But look at someone like Joe Stevenson, 3 "Fight of the Night" honors, but after 4 losses in a row, he was out the door.
 
[quote name='MisterModest']Not being an ass, but none of those guys were PPV main eventers, and none of them have ever lost more than twice in a row. Struve has never had a loss followed by another loss, Matyushenko's recent loss to Bader was his first consectutive loss, and Belcher has only lost twice in a row once, back in 2005.

But look at someone like Joe Stevenson, 3 "Fight of the Night" honors, but after 4 losses in a row, he was out the door.[/QUOTE]

This logic is so flawed I don't even know where to begin. Yes...none of those guys are main eventers. Neither is Joe Stevenson. So, you think a fighter goes directly from being a main eventer to being fired? You're not even going to give Frankie the chance to be a mid carder...or even a prelim fighter first? (ala Joe Stevenson) And you're not going to consider the level of the competition either? Yes, those other guys haven't lost three in a row...but they're not fighting top of the pound for pound rankings fighters either. Do you really not see the difference?
 
[quote name='n8rockerasu']This logic is so flawed I don't even know where to begin. Yes...none of those guys are main eventers. Neither is Joe Stevenson. So, you think a fighter goes directly from being a main eventer to being fired? You're not even going to give Frankie the chance to be a mid carder...or even a prelim fighter first? (ala Joe Stevenson) And you're not going to consider the level of the competition either? Yes, those other guys haven't lost three in a row...but they're not fighting top of the pound for pound rankings fighters either. Do you really not see the difference?[/QUOTE]
Stevenson was a main eventer. UFC 80.

My original post was just playing devil's advocate, asking a hypothetical question. UFC wants to make money, Edgar already is NOT a big money maker, if he's on a losing streak he is even less money. If he loses badly in his next fight, I say he should get fired. If he has a good fight, but still loses, yeah, they'll still keep him. But after that? A 5th loss in a row? He's gone.
 
[quote name='MisterModest']Stevenson was a main eventer. UFC 80.[/QUOTE]

How are you not seeing that this proves my point? UFC 80 was in 2008. He also fought in the main event against Diego Sanchez at UFC 95 (which was a pretty weak main event). But he never held a title, and he fought for 2.5 years after his last main event. He was given opportunity after opportunity against lesser skilled fighters before they canned him. He lost to George Sotiropoulos, Mac Danzig, Danny Castillo, and Javier Vazquez. When Edgar's losses become that pathetic, come talk to me.

[quote name='MisterModest']My original post was just playing devil's advocate, asking a hypothetical question. UFC wants to make money, Edgar already is NOT a big money maker, if he's on a losing streak he is even less money. If he loses badly in his next fight, I say he should get fired. If he has a good fight, but still loses, yeah, they'll still keep him. But after that? A 5th loss in a row? He's gone.[/QUOTE]

I get that. I'm just saying, you're jumping the gun by quite a bit and the comparison is way off. It's almost as though your discrediting Edgar's skill just because he's lost 3 straight fights, while not even factoring in the skill level of his opponents. Put him up against the 4 guys that Stevenson lost to, and I promise you he murders all of them.

It's easy to criticize him when he's in the middle of a losing streak. Lets not forget that he beat BJ Penn twice and knocked out Gray Maynard. Give him some fights that aren't title shots against two of the best fighters in the world and let him prove his worth. There are a lot of guys in the UFC who can't beat Jose Aldo and Benson Henderson. It doesn't mean they need to be fired.
 
[quote name='MisterModest']Stevenson was a main eventer. UFC 80.

My original post was just playing devil's advocate, asking a hypothetical question. UFC wants to make money, Edgar already is NOT a big money maker, if he's on a losing streak he is even less money. If he loses badly in his next fight, I say he should get fired. If he has a good fight, but still loses, yeah, they'll still keep him. But after that? A 5th loss in a row? He's gone.[/QUOTE]

No way does that happen. the guy is worldclass, like another post said, hes not losing to guida 5 times in a row. you put the 2nd best 170 in ther world in a fight with gsp 5 times in a row and he loses, does he suck? thats whats happening with edgar. hes had 7 consecutive title fights, 3-3-1. hed have to lose his next fight convincingly and get finished by a low-level guy after that to even be in the discussion imo. He doesnt have to be a big ppv draw. bendo isnt. most UFc fighters arent, there is a handful of guys that really draw, everything else is matchup related.
 
More than likely he wins his next fight anyways, against a "lower" fighter. But if he loses another two times in row, yeah, he's getting fired.
 
[quote name='Magiblaze']I did see the fight and do think hes overrated.He wasn't able to bully Bigfoot in the clinch and in the end his suspect chin came into play.Call it whatever you want, him being less shredded possibly off the PEDs or playing around,he didn't deserve to be considered as good as people thought he was.I was in the bandwagon and thought he was that good as well.[/QUOTE]

I think people discounted Bigfoot and then were hyping up Overeem a bit. The people BF has gone up against have been a definite step up compared to Overeem's competition. Cormier, Cain, Fedor, Arlovski, and Werdum are all beasts. On the other hand aside from a post-op Lesnar (and failed the drug test) and a really weird match against Werdum, Overeem has beet Fujita, Overeem, and Duffee. I think BF's competition definitely outranks what has been thrown out Overeem.

After seeing Overeem knee Fujita into next week and drop Duffee people started to really ride the Ubereem Hype Train.

I like Overeem and hope he comes back and puts on some good fights, but as of yet I don't think he has proven he is ready for someone like Cain.

As a side note - I was gonna buy this shirt if he walked through Big Foot
http://www.redbubble.com/people/huckblade/works/6615064-uber-brand-horsemeat-weathered-with-stamp
 
Aldo vs Pettis has been confirmed.

Should definitely be an interesting fight since both guys are fantastic strikers. Pettis could not wait for the winner of Bendo and Melendez so he's going for Aldo. It's pretty cool that guys from 155 are coming down to challenge Aldo because the 155 division is stacked and the 145 is not. I wouldn't mind seeing Aldo going up to 155 either and trying to hold 2 belts in two divisions. Now that would be sick!
 
i always appreciate a fighter using strikes to the body. This was a really nice one to the liver and I imagine Falcao was in a great deal of pain right before Shlemenko put his lights out.
 
[quote name='bigpimpin24']Aldo vs Pettis has been confirmed.

Should definitely be an interesting fight since both guys are fantastic strikers. Pettis could not wait for the winner of Bendo and Melendez so he's going for Aldo. It's pretty cool that guys from 155 are coming down to challenge Aldo because the 155 division is stacked and the 145 is not. I wouldn't mind seeing Aldo going up to 155 either and trying to hold 2 belts in two divisions. Now that would be sick![/QUOTE]

I'm excited for Aldo/Pettis, but I don't think Pettis stands as good of a chance as Edgar did. He is crazy powerful, but I think Aldo will fight a much smarter fight than Lauzon or Cerrone. It will probably go the distance, so Aldo definitely needs to work on his conditioning.

I actually think this is a bad decision by Pettis, especially considering his fight with Aldo isn't until August. I don't know about Melendez, but since joining the UFC Benson will have fought 7 fights in 2 years, averaging less than 4 months between fights. If Pettis had just waited for the winner at lightweight, it's very possible he would have got his shot in September/October, which really isn't that much longer than August. I think Pettis is worried that Bendo/Melendez will be extremely close and merit an immediate rematch, especially if Gil edges Benson. I think Pettis is just "chasing a belt" and it might come back to haunt him.

As for Aldo moving to 155, Bendo is my favorite fighter and I'd be scared to death of Aldo at 155. But can Aldo hold 2 belts at once for an extended period of time? Is that allowed, or would he have to abdicate one of them when he decides what weight class to stick with?
 
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[quote name='tylerh1701']But can Aldo hold 2 belts at once for an extended period of time? Is that allowed, or would he have to abdicate one of them when he decides what weight class to stick with?[/QUOTE]

It's unprecedented, but I think with the length of time most of their titles are on ice currently, UFC would force a 2-division champ to abdicate one of the titles afterward. However, whichever belt gets dropped will likely lose a bit of shine as a result and whoever wins the title immediately afterwards will have to shake off the perception of being a paper champion. If there's anything the UFC doesn't need more of, it's more Interim Champions.

In reality, the concept of champion vs champion may never become a reality in the UFC because while the buys would undoubtedly be great for that one show, it would leave the UFC with the "OK...what now?" predicament I described above.
 
[quote name='n8rockerasu']So that means he should be fired? Why do guys like Stefan Struve, Vladimir Matyushenko, Alan Belcher, etc. have jobs? That's just a ridiculous leap going from "not a good PPV draw" to "cut him!" He's just been under the lights for too long and you can see he's tired. Give the guy a break.

I always refer to him as the champion that nobody wanted. Going all the way back to when he beat BJ Penn the first time, he was scrutinized. That was 7 fights ago. 7 main events. What fighter wouldn't be exhausted after going through that? I'm sure Dana would agree that he's earned a break. He still hasn't been finished in a fight either. At least let the guy get knocked out before you toss him to the curb.

In other news, Anderson Silva's managers have said that Silva would fight GSP at a catchweight. That makes the fight a lot more interesting to me. At least now, Silva is giving something up. He'll still be the bigger fighter, but would at least have the potential of being drained from his cut too. That's a much different fight than when he was wanting GSP to come up to 185. Crazy how cooperative Anderson has been lately.[/QUOTE]

Anyone saying Struve should be cut should be burned alive.

Future UFC HW Champion in the making.
 
Anyone got the presale code for UFC in San Jose? Signed up for the newsletter a few days ago but haven't received an email from them yet and the presale is tomorrow.
 
^That loss to Travis Browne kind of hurt him, it was a fight he probably should have won. I didn't realize he's won 4 in a row since then though.
 
[quote name='Irukandji']I like Struve. He's exciting to watch but he's never going to be the heavyweight champion.[/QUOTE]

Sure about that? The HW division is the weakest in the organization.
 
Struve is talented...but he's got a LONG way to go. He lost to Travis Browne...he got KTFO by Roy Nelson. You could argue that he's improved since then, but we need to see it against bigger name fighters. Can he beat Roy Nelson now? Could he beat Frank Mir? Could he even beat Cheick Kongo? Fight Magazine has him as their #8 heavyweight (ahead of guys that he lost to like Nelson and Browne...not to mention Josh Barnett and Kongo). I'm not saying I disagree, but lets see him put some of those guys down. It's time for Struve to put on his big boy pants.
 
[quote name='n8rockerasu']Struve is talented...but he's got a LONG way to go. He lost to Travis Browne...he got KTFO by Roy Nelson. You could argue that he's improved since then, but we need to see it against bigger name fighters. Can he beat Roy Nelson now? Could he beat Frank Mir? Could he even beat Cheick Kongo? Fight Magazine has him as their #8 heavyweight (ahead of guys that he lost to like Nelson and Browne...not to mention Josh Barnett and Kongo). I'm not saying I disagree, but lets see him put some of those guys down. It's time for Struve to put on his big boy pants.[/QUOTE]
Hes a good fighter but unforunately his chin just isn't there to get him to the top of the Heavyweights.Someone with finishing power will always be there to KO him.Great fighter though.Not sure how his fight with Hunt goes, he either gets KOed or manages to sub Hunt.All likely to be in the first round :D.
 
[quote name='Calipso']Sure about that? The HW division is the weakest in the organization.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I'm sure. Quote me on it. If he fights for the heavyweight championship I'll take any bet you want.
 
^Hmm...I don't think that Fitch deserved to be cut, but I'm not shedding tears over it either. His fights were usually awful to watch.
 
[quote name='MisterModest']Jon Fitch got fired. Bunch of other chumps, too.[/QUOTE]

Wow...I gotta say, Fitch really got screwed by the UFC the past few years. When he was riding his 6 fight unbeaten streak, Dana promised him another shot at GSP...then all the Nick Diaz nonsense started...which parlayed into Carlos Condit...which then led to injury...and so on. Meanwhile, Fitch keeps plugging away...takes a couple losses to guys who are basically next in line for title shots at 170 (Hendricks and Maia), and now he's out of a job? The guy has lost 3 fights in 10 years...WTF?

This is a really weird move for the UFC. They cut 16 fighters. You'd think they were strapped for cash or something. With all the injuries we saw this past year, and fighters needing to be replaced, this just doesn't make sense to me. Unless they want to introduce some new kind of roster structure where they keep fighters available, but don't have them under contract...this just seems like it would lead to MORE cancelled events. If they were getting top notch talent from The Ultimate Fighter, I could maybe understand it...but most of those guys have been floundering as well. I feel like there's more to this story than we're being told.

EDIT - Full disclosure, Fitch hasn't finished a fighter since 2007...and I could totally see that playing into it. I just really hope that's not a road the UFC goes down. It basically means sloppy ass fighters like Chris Leben and Leonard Garcia will always have a home, but guys who fight technically and make few mistakes are just written off. I can see drunken bar fights with giant haymakers anywhere. Even Fitch's loss to Maia...yes, it was one-sided, but it was because Maia was all over him and wouldn't let him breathe. That fight was two technicians posturing for control for 15 minutes. Maia just came better prepared. I get that "knockouts sell". But at some point, that starts to sound an awful lot like EliteXC's mantra too. It's a very slippery slope.
 
Pissed at Fitch and Volkmann. Neither deserved to be cut. I've gone to enough UFC Expos and UFC events......I'm getting irritated with how UFC has become "Sports entertainment".

Sonnen fan here, he doesn't deserve the LHW shot.
Edgar fan here, he didn't deserve the last 2 shots and doesn't deserve another.

Enough is enough.

Fitch boring. Sure. But he wins and is a legit fighter.
Volkmann boring. Same as fitch, he was on a tear. One loss and he's gone? (6-2 record in UFC)

Dana White can suck it.

[quote name='MisterModest']Jon Fitch got fired. Bunch of other chumps, too.[/QUOTE]


Paul Sass and Jacob Volkmann are chumps? GTFO and go back to Sherdog you JUST BLEED dbag.
 
[quote name='Calipso']GTFO and go back to Sherdog you JUST BLEED dbag.[/QUOTE]
I'm sorry, but I'm European, and don't know what any of that means. Don't use your slick, trash-talking, American slang on me.
 
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