Official CAG board/card game topic. From Dominion to Battlestar we gots it all!

Yeah you best just order from fairplay. The prices are almost the same but there are games you listed there that BGR doesn't have.

Anyway, like infamy said, Caylus Magna Carta is not an xpansion, it's a card version of caylus. Just like San Juan is the card version of Puerto Rico. I played Caylus before Magna Carta, but i didn't think Caylus was really that hard. It can be long though. It's just a worker placement game, but a very good one.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']Yeah you best just order from fairplay. The prices are almost the same but there are games you listed there that BGR doesn't have.

Anyway, like infamy said, Caylus Magna Carta is not an xpansion, it's a card version of caylus. Just like San Juan is the card version of Puerto Rico. I played Caylus before Magna Carta, but i didn't think Caylus was really that hard. It can be long though. It's just a worker placement game, but a very good one.[/QUOTE]

Thanks anyways, if I place an order next time that doesnt have a bunch of stuff they dont have ill ask you to talk to your buddy or email them myself(should I say Thrust sent me heh?). Also glad I didnt buy San Juan then, almost bought it and I already have Puerto Rico. Or is it worth buying both versions of the game?
 
Have to say I think Lost Cities is the current favorite in our house hold and a must own game for anyone at $15. We have played it almost as much as TTR at this point and just keep finding ourselves playing it. Its not quick but not long, a lot of fun, turns go fast and its got just enough strategy to luck ratio. Amanda continues to want to play it too despite the fact that I have been ass raping her by like 100 points every game too which is a plus!
 
[quote name='infamyRISE']Somewhere, a copy of R4tG weeps! :)[/QUOTE]

Lost Cities > R4tG!!!!

Heh more seriously though has anyone ever heard of Crokinole? This game looks really cool but Christ I hate to pay $150 for a game!

http://boardgamegeeks.com/thread/356106
http://www.crokinolegame.ca/

Edit - hmmm there is a cheap board on Amazon that also plays Carrom and a few other games but I bet its going to be shite! Dimensions and finish are probally off. Tempted to try it but really dont trust it....
http://www.amazon.com/Vintage-Sport...e=UTF8&s=toys-and-games&qid=1239885638&sr=8-1

Edit 2 - Damn man fairplaygames.com has awsome shipping. I placed my order at like 3 yesterday and I got it by like 2 this afternoon.....and this was the free shipping option.
 
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San Juan is different enough from Puerto Rico to justify having both. They both scratch totally different itches.

But if you really hated Rftg, you probably won't like San Juan.


Fun trivia -- Rftg actually started out in design as the card version of Puerto Rico. San Juan beat them out the gate so the designers switched theme to sci-fi.
 
Hi, I am excited to tell you guys that I just ordered Settlers of Catan. I'll let you know how it goes over with my family.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']San Juan is different enough from Puerto Rico to justify having both. They both scratch totally different itches.

But if you really hated Rftg, you probably won't like San Juan.


Fun trivia -- Rftg actually started out in design as the card version of Puerto Rico. San Juan beat them out the gate so the designers switched theme to sci-fi.[/QUOTE]

I dont hate RftG, you cant hate something you havnt played. I just hated how difficult it was to learn. I still hope/intend to play it with the friend I sold it to and if I like it I will rebuy it.

Anyways still just been playing small games with the little free time Amanda has had(thus no battle lore sorry man!)however Saturday we are having a game night with the couple I mentioned meeting. They should get here around 1ish and we plan on playing for another 6-8 hours so I should finally get some good gaming in.

I am also hoping to get to try a few of the games that came in my order tonight like Jambo, Ingenious and Gloom.
 
Flippin awesome. I had no clue there were home brew board games on the DS. Cant believe I am lucky enough to have Lost Cities on the go!(mods if this is against TOS sorry! Figured since its not a released legal game its not against ToS).

Edit - oooook big downside is I will need to learn the rules to some of these games since they dont include tutorials!
 
Well had our gaming night finally last night and enjoyed it a lot.

We started with a quick game of No Thanks which everyone enjoyed. Again it proved itself to be one of those games where people were sitting staring at each other across the table trying to figure out what the other would do and taunting each other. I won by a small margin with Johnathan/Amanda taking second(cant remember who but it was close).

We switched to Gloom. This was the first time I had played this game and I really like it and think we will love it as a 2 player game. However as a 4 player game it was a bit slow, people seemed to take like 5 mins on their turn meaning it was often like 15 minutes before it was your turn again in a 4 player game. Still I can tell already that this is fast going to become a fav of mine. Now if only it didn't come in such a crappy box! Jamie which is the wife of the female/male couple we were playing with won by a HUGE amount killing off all her characters pretty fast with lots of negative points(which is a good thing in this game). I took second but by a narrow margin over the other players.

Third up was Ingenious. This was all 4 of our first time playing this game and I think its a testament to the game that everyone was clear on the rules within the first turn or two. Again not one of my fav games but glad I added to my collection. Good little abstract game that kept the game close for everyone. Ultimately I won but it seriously could have been Jamie's game by a turn or two if she would have either drawn the right tiles or focused on all her tiles vs leaving 1 color behind.

Then we finally got our first taste of Carcasonne. I really liked the game, dont think it would be one of my fav games I would be dying to break out every week but definitely a game I would want to play often. And who knows maybe with the expansions it would change the game for the better where I would want to play it constantly. Amanda was pretty meh on it but I am hoping repeat plays warms up on it more. If she doesn't she doesn't and I have a feeling since she prejudged the game(she said it looked stupid before ever playing it and has voiced it for months)she wont ever care for it, but hey I can still hope it grows on her. I think we played with just the base game and no expansions. And man farmers are freaking powerful! I ultimately won the game and by a decent margin, but I only had 1 farmer the whole game and would have had more if I would have known how strong they are. I was like a lap and a half ahead of Jamie and John till we started counting farmers and then they were right behind me!

We ended the night with Ticket to Ride which me and Amanda had played a lot but was their first game. I think they enjoyed it but it was hard to tell since everyone was pretty tried by this point. Again I won by a fair margin with Amanda in second, Jamie in third and John in last. John would have almost beat me but he waited a bit to long to finish a big route and Amanda blocked him off in the last few turns which meant he got stuck holding a negative 21 in his hand, losing those points as well as not getting to share the globe trotter as a result meant that he was in last where he could have been just a little behind me.

We are planning on playing again in the next couple weeks but we should get a LOT more games in next time. Since this was the first time his kids ever meet us we went to the Zoo which took like 3 hours, then we had to pick up food and eat and entertain children off and on. So next time which might be at their house should mean a lot more games. We wont be going to the zoo and the kids will have their own rooms/toys to play with. I had a lot of fun playing in 4's and I think Amanda did too, but next time should be even better. If anyone wants impressions on Gloom, Ingenious or Carc or explanations of play just ask
 
Thanks for the report.

I was going to tell you, and forgot, to get Caracassone: Hunters and Gatherers if you were going to get a caracassone. It's widely considered (last I checked) to be the best one.

I just picked up Genoa (new reprint of Traders of Genoa) but haven't played it yet. Looking forward to it.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']Thanks for the report.

I was going to tell you, and forgot, to get Caracassone: Hunters and Gatherers if you were going to get a caracassone. It's widely considered (last I checked) to be the best one.

I just picked up Genoa (new reprint of Traders of Genoa) but haven't played it yet. Looking forward to it.[/QUOTE]

Is H&G a stand alone or expansion? Any place I can play it online against A.I? I have been playing Carc on http://games.asobrain.com/ non stop the last 2 days.
 
Played battle lines last night. Was not an amazing game but again another good pick up at $13ish bucks.

Its a really simple but fun game for the price. Basically there are 9(well I believe 9 might be just more or just less)flags 3 on the left, 3 on the right and the rest in the middle. The point of the game is to win either 5 flags total or if you can steal all 3 flags off either the left or right side you win automatically(its supposed to represent good tactics that let you break through an enemies defense).

To do this each player receives a hand of cards that consist of both a color and a number. On your turn you will pick a flag and then play a card on said flag on your side of the battle line. Once you have played 3 cards the results are compared to the opponents 3 cards and someone gets the flag. Catch is that its not just the highest total of numbers, that's one way of scoring the battle but making certain "formations" results in higher power. For instance the hardest thing to do is make a consecutive string of numbers(like 3, 4, 5 or 7. 8 9)that also happen to be the same color so if you can do that you have won the flag unless its possible for your opponet to do the same using a higher number sequence(so if you play 3,4,5 he would have to play 6,7,8 or better of the same color). Second best formation is playing 3 cards of the same color and from there there are other types such as a string of numbers that arnt of the same color.

So again play cards on the flag trying to balance offense vs defense first person to capture 3 flags on one side of the board or any five flags total wins the game. Only other thing to add is that there is also a deck of "tactics" cards which you can also draw during your draw phase. These cards have special text that let them be played as a wild card, let you move your or your opponents cards to different spots etc etc. However you can only draw 1 more tactics card then your opponent currently has in hand.

Didnt love the game, but defintly see it being broke out once in a while since its another solid/fun 30 min kind of game.
 
[quote name='infamyRISE']Ordered:

Agricola
Arkham Horror
Dominion


Can't wait.[/QUOTE]

Very good order. Agricola is a great game thats long, Dominion a great short game and I have heard AH is a great insanely long game.
 
My wife and I will be having a boardgame night tomorrow, if anyone lives in the Denver area and is interested just shoot me a private message. I'm not quite sure what the attendance is going to look like because it was re-scheduled from last week.

We're planning on playing a couple games;
Betrayal at House on the Hill
and
Last Night on Earth

we might play;
Carcassonne
Fluxx
and possibly whatever anyone else brings

Games I'd be interested in playing but we probably won't get to;
Arkham Horror
Fury of Dracula
and
Runebound

Also we have several other games I can't think of off the top of my head.
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']Is H&G a stand alone or expansion? Any place I can play it online against A.I? I have been playing Carc on http://games.asobrain.com/ non stop the last 2 days.[/QUOTE]

It's standalone. It basically incorporates several of the better mechanics/features of the various flavors and expansions into one standalone game.

So I snagged Small World yesterday as soon as it hit BGR and played it. Beautiful game. Days of Wonder always outdoes themselves. Pretty fun. I need to play it more, fun light fantasy area control game.
 
Order arrived.

Everything looks so tasty. I wonder if Dominion: Intrigue will have an insert to hold its cards + the originals... These boxes are unnecessarily huge.


Also...Small World.... I must be missing something. I can't get hyped at all for it. Video review gave me major meh-face.
 
[quote name='infamyRISE']Order arrived.

Everything looks so tasty. I wonder if Dominion: Intrigue will have an insert to hold its cards + the originals... These boxes are unnecessarily huge.


Also...Small World.... I must be missing something. I can't get hyped at all for it. Video review gave me major meh-face.[/QUOTE]

Ya the box for Dominion kind of annoyed me. It was way bigger then it needed to be and the cards didnt even feel that well organized. I think they could have made a box that was a lot smaller and better organized. Hopefully Intrigue is better.

Speaking of Intrigue I have been debating cancling my pre order of it and substitituing something else in its place. As it stands my $125 order wont ship till Intrigue releases so I am debating putting either Lost Cities the Board Game in for my fiancee or Yinsh/Blokus/Power Grid for myself.
 
I don't know if I've played anything extremely similar, simply because I'm still pretty new at real boardgaming, too... maybe thrust can answer?

But its going a little of everything going on. There's auctions for the power plants themselves, then you're trying to grab up limited (some moreso than others) resources, and placement of the plants themselves.

www.boardgameswithscott.com has a nice video of it, complete with the designer of the game sitting down and explaining it. Always good times listening to heavy german accents making jokes.
 
[quote name='infamyRISE']I don't know if I've played anything extremely similar, simply because I'm still pretty new at real boardgaming, too... maybe thrust can answer?

But its going a little of everything going on. There's auctions for the power plants themselves, then you're trying to grab up limited (some moreso than others) resources, and placement of the plants themselves.

www.boardgameswithscott.com has a nice video of it, complete with the designer of the game sitting down and explaining it. Always good times listening to heavy german accents making jokes.[/QUOTE]

Well I would rather it not be like other board games you have played. Now that our collection is getting to be a pretty decent size I am being more careful about what I buy. I dont want 10 games that play the exact same you know?
 
I can't compare power grid to anything. What's weird about power grid is that only the very last round in the game matters as to determine who wins (who supplied power to the most power plants in the last round).

My mom liked it a lot though, which really surprised me. It's a fun game but a bit mathy. I enjoy it from time to time.
 
Played more Last Night on Earth this week. Sally with the chainsaw is just as good as Johnny with the meat cleaver.

After playing several games, I have to say, that playing zombies are tough to win. The fact that you can continue to play as other heroes makes the game easier at many parts. Playing as one hero with no replacements seem more to be in line with the theme of the game.

I'm interested in grabbing Betrayal on House at the Hill, but the prices on ebay is scaring me away.
 
My gaming group won't let us play anything but Stone Age now. It's pretty great, give it a shot if you have the chance. It's a bit dense at first, but when it clicks into place everyone will have their own 'winning strategy.'
 
[quote name='Jek Porkins']My gaming group won't let us play anything but Stone Age now. It's pretty great, give it a shot if you have the chance. It's a bit dense at first, but when it clicks into place everyone will have their own 'winning strategy.'[/QUOTE]

Interesting. My friend bought Stone Age. We played it. I thought it was 'just alright' and he hated it and sold it.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']Interesting. My friend bought Stone Age. We played it. I thought it was 'just alright' and he hated it and sold it.[/QUOTE]

I'm surprised to hear that. Was it just the two of you playing? Like a lot of games, it's probably not as good with just a pair. I think it's great with four.
 
Been hearing a lot about Stone Age and have it pretty high up on my to get list. Think it will be awhile though since currently we have like 20 games we have bought and not played. Going to try really hard to unless there is a big sale not pick up another board game till we play most of our backlog. So in other words someone hurry up and tell me about a great sale so I have an excuse!

Heh anyways we went to the couples house that we have been playing games with the last 4 weeks in a row to have a 5th gaming get together and also to mod something. We broke out Bonanza right from the start and I freaking LOVE it. You guys may be nuts about RftG, Pandemic(which I will talk about in a minute) and LNoE but were dead on about Bon its flipping awesome and I am glad I picked it up. Both our friends had played it against each other quite a few times and it was me and Amanda's first game but we got the rules really fast and I actually won the first game. The second game we played I lost by like 4 or 5 points which drove me nuts since no one would trade with me the whole game.....I kept drawing the cards people needed but they would harvest at the begging of their turn killing any trade! I just couldn't catch a break so was forced to try and plant and harvest extremely effectively! Even with that I still enjoyed the hell out of the second game.

Next we broke out Pandemic. Ok again you guys are nuts, this is just NOT a top tier game. The male of the couple we played with thought it was pretty decent but not top tier, the girl hated it, Amanda again said its a D+ kind of game and I give it a C-. If I was at someones house and they really wanted to play it I wouldn't object but I wouldnt exactly be happy about playing it either. We even put all 6 epidemic cards in this game and it was still pretty middle of the road at best and dull at worst. Yes we had to rush around fighting disease and each person was doing their job(for instance I was moving people on my turn since I was dispatcher)and ultimately we had a narrow victory but we just never found the game that suspenseful or fun even when we were down to our last outbreak. If someone has a game they are happy to trade for it of roughly equal value I am happy to do so.

Finally we played a few games of Rat a tat katt which is a game I am happy they bought and not us. The couple we play with really likes it but both of us thought it was a D- kind of game at best. I think the main reason they probaly like it is because they have been playing with their 6 year old which makes sense. To play the game you deal 4 cards to each player. Each player can look at the cards on the left and right end of their stack. Each card is numbered between 0-9 and there are a few special cards. The object of the game is to have the least amount of points at game end(game ends when someone calls for the game to end and everyone then gets 1 more round). Basically every turn you draw a card then choose to replace a card or keep a card but you are never allowed to peak at your cards and must memorize what they are unless you draw the peak card. Far too luck based for my tastes.

So ya love Bonanza, think Pandemic is meh and looking to trade it and hate Ratt a tat katt.
 
[quote name='infamyRISE']Everyone alright in here?[/QUOTE]

Ya no one here is really talkative so I kind of moved on to chatting at boardgamegeeks.com and also to my buddy and his wife who we are still playing board games with almost every weekend.

I guess Ill add something though. I have been beating Amanda at games and badly.....so badly I created at topic at BGG asking the woman of the board if I should let her beat me sometimes. Seriously I was beating her in like 99/100 games. Even when we got together with the couple on the weekend I was placing first in like 70% of the games and second in those I didnt take first.....

The response was an overwhelming no dont let her beat you and I am glad I didn't.

Last night we played Tzaar for the first time. 3 games and I beat her the first two, but that third game she beat me and she was so happy that she actually started tearing up as she danced around. Made my night seeing her that happy because she beat me....and no it wasn't an exaggeration she didn't cry but her eyes did water up! Last thing she said before bed was a chuckle and I beat you.

And a quick explanation on Tzaar which I highly reccomend.

Tzaar is awesome and easy. Basically there are 3 types of pieces that both people have. Each players take turns on on their turns they have two moves. The first must be to capture an opponents piece(all you do is jump on a piece thats next to yours or that is on the same line as your piece with no other blocking it). If you cant capture a piece the game is over. The second move can be 1 of two things, capturing a second piece or stacking 1 of your pieces on another piece/another stack. The reason for stacking is because a 1 piece stack cant take a 2 piece stack, or a 2 piece a 3 piece etc etc. So the bigger your stack the better its defense....downside of that relates to the only other rule in the game. As I said there are 3 types of pieces and the other way to win is by taking out all of a single type of an opponents pieces. It doesn't matter if you have 3x as many pieces left as your opponent if at any
time they capture all of a single type of your pieces the game is over.

Thats the whole game. So as you can see very simple yet amazingly stratagic. The game is like a cross between Chess and Checkers. I didnt think Amanda was going to like it but she loved it. Turns and the game itself just went so fast. Despite it being the first time we played I think we finished 3 games and me explaining the game to Amanda in less then half an hour.
 
ive been playing a lot of carcassonne and warrior knights lately. warrior knights is pretty fun, but its just missing a little something. not sure what it is, maybe the expansion will help.
 
Played Thurn and Taxis last night and both of us disliked it. By the official rules the game was over in 3 turns so we replayed and again within just a few turns we were able to create routes that were 7 long thus ending the game. So we turned around and tried playing it with a variant where to win you had to have one of each card (3,4,5,6 and 7)and still didnt really care for the game that much. Will try it a few more times but so far it falls in the pandemic group where we dont hate it but dont care for it either.

Edit - Ok so to be fair it looks like the first time we played wrong. The other two games yes we played wrong but it was pretty damn close to official rules so feel its fair.
 
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[quote name='infamyRISE']Warrior Knights is way up on my want list.

As in Game of Thrones. A quick aside, I started that series... 87asdfhajkchuiy so good.[/QUOTE]

warrior knights is good. but its kind of slow paced and short (if you consider 2-3 hours short). there are ways to make the game longer that we havent tried yet, i think were going to next time. i guess my biggest complaint is, just when things start to pick up it usually ends through victory points (one of two ways to win the game).
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']Played Thurn and Taxis last night and both of us disliked it. By the official rules the game was over in 3 turns so we replayed and again within just a few turns we were able to create routes that were 7 long thus ending the game. So we turned around and tried playing it with a variant where to win you had to have one of each card (3,4,5,6 and 7)and still didnt really care for the game that much. Will try it a few more times but so far it falls in the pandemic group where we dont hate it but dont care for it either.

Edit - Ok so to be fair it looks like the first time we played wrong. The other two games yes we played wrong but it was pretty damn close to official rules so feel its fair.[/QUOTE]

Wow I've never had a thurn and taxis game go less than 90 minutes. Not sure what I was doing wrong.
 
I played a few games at the last session that I enjoyed.

Thebes (the Rio Grande reimaging of Jenseits von Thebes) was fun, it expands upon the time mechanic of Around the World in 80 days where you take a number of weeks to do things. One thing lots of 'hardcore' gamers don't like about it is it does have some luck, when you do a dig you're actually digging in a bag for treasure, so regardless how many pulls you get, you could still have crappy luck. Other than that it seems pretty balanced, and does allow some choice with how long you stay in a dig and do you go for more knowledge or start digging. That of course can make it easier for non-gamers or new-gamers to get into and enjoy--they'd get their clock cleaned at most pure strategy games and that's no fun.

Dominion was another one we played that session. This one was very addictive. The rules are very simple, everyone starts with the exact same 10 card deck, and using that deck you buy from 10 other card types, plus Coin cards and Victory points; VP are pointless in play but you of course need them to win. In one turn you can do an Action (play a card) and a Buy, and some Action cards give you more Actions or more Buys or more cards, so it's real easy to build up a chain. My only complaint is that it's almost too fast--I was playing with 2 other people and apart from playing a Militia card, there was almost no player interaction. It was almost like three hands of solitaire played simultaneously. They were more experienced than me, so that might have something to do with it, if I played at home I'd slow the pace down a little bit. This would be another good game for newbies, since it's not directly confrontational, and it's very simple to learn and a relatively short game (half hour or so). We played 4 or 5 times. I definitely want to buy this one.

Has anyone played Small World? Even though this one is directly confrontational, it seems like it would be a good one, again, for newer players, since they can get another army and come back in if they lose. I haven't played this one yet.

We played Pandemic as well, the first time for three of the four, but I didn't like it too much. We lost both times, it seems like unless you get lucky or move really darn fast, you're screwed. Also, it's theoretically co-op, but that translated more into one person directing the others around the board (might have something to do with our newbie status). I didn't really feel attached to my guy.

You might notice a theme--I'm looking for games that are relatively quick to play, have a little strategy but also a bit of luck, that are somewhat simple to understand, and that aren't totally cutthroat/backstabbing competitive, and are still fun--I'm trying to get my nongaming wife (whose typical games are things like Scrabble, Scene It, and Trivial Pursuit, occasional Craniums--maybe I took her in the deep end by drafting her to play Arkham Horror), and my 7 year old boy into playing something slightly deeper than the 'usual' games.

I've got a wishlist at CoolStuffInc including
Small World
Thebes
Dominion
Talisman Revised 4e (I know, lots of luck and roll-and-move, but this is probably the closest to the games they're used to playing)

I just need to drop the hammer on the cart.
 
Dominion is fun, but there's no end to the shuffling. I have the actual game, but I prefer to play it on http://www.brettspielwelt.de/ so that the computer does all of the shuffling for you. :)
You can play a lot of games online there, but I usually go between Dominion and Stone Age. It's free to play, and you can download the client and play all you want!
 
Very true. I like the small hand size, but the constant shuffling definitely gets old.
I actually just signed up on BSW last week, and played a game or two of Dominion. I know I was moving much slower than my opponents, and they probably thought I was rude because at the end of the game I realized I was on the wrong chat channel. Whoops.
Anyway, I bought some games from CSI the other day.
I did go with Dominion, Small World, and Thebes, but dropped Talisman and got Fearsome Floors - my boy likes mazes and this is sort of maze-like in its grid structure.
I placed the order about midnight Tues/Wed and got it this morning. Not too bad at all (admittedly I'm in NC and they're in FL, but still).
 
Birthday package came in! Got:

Say Anything!
LNoE: Growing Hunger
A Game of Thrones LCG Core set
A Game of Thrones the Board game (yeah, I'm on a GoT kick here.)
Warrior Knights: Crown and Glory expansion (GF accidentally got this instead of the base game -- my excuse to make another order!)
 
[quote name='infamyRISE']So this thread is dead?

What's been going on in the land of boards and meeples?[/QUOTE]

Meh like I stated earlier it seems everyone was talking about their own gaming experiences but not bothering responding to others so I stopped bothering posting.

Between planning for the wedding, Amanda taking a 17 credit hour summer semester and the work it took to make that threesome happan(which flipping sucked!!!)we havnt had a lot of time for board games. We have squeezed in some of our favs like bohnanza, Yinsh, Tzaar and lost cities but had little time for long games like Agricola and no time to learn a new one like Battle Lore. Probaly wont have the time till after school/the wedding are over in September.

We did get to play Stone Age though during the 1 meeting with the couple that we play with we had time for. I liked the game a lot but she wasnt a fan of it and with its similarties to Agricola she said she didnt want to buy it. No big since the next game I want to buy is Small World anyways.

Only other gaming thing to add is that I MIGHT get a lot of board games but im doubting it. My mom said my family recognized that we dont need a lot of kitch stuff at the Bridal shower and asked what else they could get for us. When my mom pointed out that we play a lot of board games they got excited to toss us a bridal shower based around gaming....so we created an Amazon registry with all the games we want and waited getting excited.....but ya a month from the day of the shower and nothing has been purchased...still holding out hope.
 
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