Sony Playstation Home - Gen. Discussion & Info - Open Beta Available Now

[quote name='gizmogc']Yawn.

I have a Wii....and have Mii's but never use them for anything. I know I can do prades and what now...but why?

This home thing sounds pretty cool, but I don't think a ton of people will actually take advantage of it at this point. $500-$600 for a system is alot, and I would think most PS3's would be owned by adults who have no interest in this (unless they want to meet younger kids...). When it comes out I will download it since its free but will most likley never use it. I'd much rather have all these options on my PS3 menu instead of in some little 'game'.[/QUOTE]


I think the whole "Sims" factor will get a lot of people. I can't wait to see how it all pans out.
 
[quote name='gizmogc']Yawn.

I have a Wii....and have Mii's but never use them for anything. I know I can do prades and what now...but why?

This home thing sounds pretty cool, but I don't think a ton of people will actually take advantage of it at this point. $500-$600 for a system is alot, and I would think most PS3's would be owned by adults who have no interest in this (unless they want to meet younger kids...). When it comes out I will download it since its free but will most likley never use it. I'd much rather have all these options on my PS3 menu instead of in some little 'game'.[/QUOTE]

Whether you like Home or not (and I can see why people would not like it. It is a bit tedious and a hassle when compared to a simplified menu) most people should be able to appreciate that Sony is actually making a serious attempt to match live, for free nonetheless. Hopefully with Home will come the ability to have a universal PSN name, that is actually universal.
 
[quote name='Apossum']I think the whole "Sims" factor will get a lot of people. I can't wait to see how it all pans out.[/QUOTE]

Yea. Saying it isn't for adults is pretty much like saying the Wii is only for kids. Neither are true.
 
this is BS imo. its like the sims. all it does is make it a PIA to do what i want to do, team up w/ friends. i dont want to hang out in some virtual apartment, or buy virtual clothes. couldnt they have used the effort to make global friends & improved the matchmaking system? honestly.

if i wanted to hang out in some lame virtual world because my own life sucked that bad id just buy second life. consoles are about console games Sony, get with the damn program already.
 
[quote name='dpatel']Whether you like Home or not (and I can see why people would not like it. It is a bit tedious and a hassle when compared to a simplified menu) most people should be able to appreciate that Sony is actually making a serious attempt to match live, for free nonetheless. Hopefully with Home will come the ability to have a universal PSN name, that is actually universal.[/quote]

ok lets get something straight. its only free because it's ad supported, and sony doesnt host any of the games (except ones their own studoi puts out). which also means that the games will likely lose their online fuctionality a few years down the road. unlike XBL where you can still play the 1st game that ever came out on XBL to this day.

if they can match what XBL can do for free ill eat my words, but all logical sense points to them not being able to do that w/o losing tons of money.
 
There's going to be private areas where your friends can just all meet up without hunting them down in the giant lobby.

The big lobby is really just for socializing. Your private 'house' is where you set up your games with people you already know.

I'd rather sit on my bed than watch a text screen waiting for my buddies to show up. Play a little pool, dance, watch a little South Park on my in game Bravia, whatever.
 
[quote name='propeller_head']ok lets get something straight. its only free because it's ad supported, and sony doesnt host any of the games (except ones their own studoi puts out). which also means that the games will likely lose their online fuctionality a few years down the road. unlike XBL where you can still play the 1st game that ever came out on XBL to this day.[/QUOTE]

I really feel that XBL can be replicated without a fee. All the components are there in PSN. Only difference is, Sony isn't as good with implementing it in all games. And, games have their own servers which doesn't guarantee their longevity (that's really the only downside to it being free). Everything else seems to be offered on PSN, just less solid and in need of a lot of work.

[quote name='propeller_head']if they can match what XBL can do for free ill eat my words, but all logical sense points to them not being able to do that w/o losing tons of money.[/QUOTE]

I am wondering what exactly the money is going towards for XBL. If it is just the dedicated servers, then it won't be too hard to replicate XBL (we just won't have the advantage of dedicated servers).

Everything else shouldn't really cost money. I honestly don't know though, maybe someone can shed some light as to what the money for XBL is for.
 
And as far as being only free because its ad supported, the current PSN does not have ads and has a lot of the features of Live. It just has a big problem with actually standardizing these features and implementing them into games. However, I don't think this is a result of the service being free, its more of a result of Sony not being as aggressive about their online plan to developers as MS.
 
The part about "Sony isn't as good with implementing it in all games" is a little misleading. The system wasn't in place yet prior to launch so the developers went ahead and made up their own work arounds. If you were referring to launch titles at least, you are partly right.

Yes there WILL be ads in Home via trailers and what not, but I don't expect to see big glowing signs everywhere advertising all kinds of products.
 
[quote name='propeller_head']this is BS imo. its like the sims. all it does is make it a PIA to do what i want to do, team up w/ friends. i dont want to hang out in some virtual apartment, or buy virtual clothes. couldnt they have used the effort to make global friends & improved the matchmaking system? honestly.

if i wanted to hang out in some lame virtual world because my own life sucked that bad id just buy second life. consoles are about console games Sony, get with the damn program already.[/quote]

You did see the Virtual PSP, right? Your avatar has a PSP that gives you an XMB menu of all of the features of Home. If you don't want to walk to your destination, you won't have to. You can just use the PSP to access everything.
 
[quote name='propeller_head']ok lets get something straight. its only free because it's ad supported, and sony doesnt host any of the games (except ones their own studoi puts out). which also means that the games will likely lose their online fuctionality a few years down the road. unlike XBL where you can still play the 1st game that ever came out on XBL to this day.

if they can match what XBL can do for free ill eat my words, but all logical sense points to them not being able to do that w/o losing tons of money.[/QUOTE]


like you said, it's ad and microtransaction supported. it's not like these 2 things don't equate to boatloads of cash.

If enough people get into it, money won't be a problem--companies will pay a shitload to have their ad seen by every single person that owns a PS3 (this will become more relevant when sales pick up, obviously.) A shirt for your avatar that cost jack shit to create and host could bring in $100 grand after a ton of people buy it.

they can do it, we just have to hope they're going to make it very enticing for devs to integrate their games with it.
 
i really like this idea and with it i think sony will finally get some much needed positive publicity. it's a good thing they didn't half-ass it or else you'd hear nothing but sony's lack of originality and down right copying of the competition. what they did with home exceeded most of our expectations so it comes off an innovative feature even if it's an amalgam of two competitors ideas.

the only real problem i currently have with this home feature are the avatars themselves. i think by using realistic representations for player avatars, it may not get the mass appeal or memorableness of the miis. i mean it the miis just come off as more fun because your creating a caricature of yourself so it doesn't need to be accurate, but with a realistic avatar accuracy is needed or else it comes off as an inaccurate representation of yourself.
 
I wonder if you'll be able to download content while using Home. People did complained how the multitasking will only work for the XMB, but I wonder if this might replace that in a way.

I mean, it would be cool if you could go to a public area with the theme of a "God of War Temple" like was used as an example. While there, you could play a mini-game and chat with friends while downloading the latest demo.

Also I wonder how this might effect multiplayer games. With the streaming video, we might see live viewing of games as they are happening. It would be great if they hosted tournaments with live announcers where you sat around in the gaming lounge, talking trash and waiting for your turn to race while watching others zooming around a track.


The trophies room looks cool too. I wonder if they might be able to make it retro and add a few PS2 title awards.

He mentioned "pets in the future". Hope you don't have to buy food for them! :p
 
Not the best image I know but I pulled it from keynote video. Here it mentions the beta at the bottom:

homebbj4.jpg
 
I really don't see who they can have "large scale beta" without involving the current PS3 owners.

There is a private/close beta going on right now, at least that is what Phil said.
 
Wow,
I just watched the keynote speech at GDC, the 22 minute long one at gamevideos.com. I'm amazed. I have a ps3, and have been sorely disappointed, but this is just unbelievable. I thought it looked ok from the 2 minute trailer, but watching it in action is just amazing.

I recommend any skeptic to go watch the 22 minute long video. If the loading times aren't horrendous, then this will put the ps3 right back in the market. Girls would actually enjoy making an apt. and decorating it. This would probably be the "killer" app for most of the female population.
 
[quote name='dpatel']I am wondering what exactly the money is going towards for XBL. If it is just the dedicated servers, then it won't be too hard to replicate XBL (we just won't have the advantage of dedicated servers).

Everything else shouldn't really cost money. I honestly don't know though, maybe someone can shed some light as to what the money for XBL is for.[/quote] bandwidth, it's not cheap. especially reliable bandwidth. thats not to say PSN is unreliable, its far to young to even tell yet. just saying that in general guaranteed datacenter uptime is a lot more expensive.

[quote name='dpatel']And as far as being only free because its ad supported, the current PSN does not have ads and has a lot of the features of Live. It just has a big problem with actually standardizing these features and implementing them into games. However, I don't think this is a result of the service being free, its more of a result of Sony not being as aggressive about their online plan to developers as MS.[/quote] one of the advantages of MS hosting all the games is developers have that standardization, and the global communication is painless. for PSN to match it they would have to support redundancy & build a constant bridge to all the servers instead of just handing off players. thats an expensive thing to do & it will incur recurring costs which will be hard for sony to eat even w/ ad support.

[quote name='reiji']You did see the Virtual PSP, right? Your avatar has a PSP that gives you an XMB menu of all of the features of Home. If you don't want to walk to your destination, you won't have to. You can just use the PSP to access everything.[/quote] everything except the two things i would have liked instead of the 3d world. global & better matchmaking.

[quote name='Apossum']like you said, it's ad and microtransaction supported. it's not like these 2 things don't equate to boatloads of cash.

If enough people get into it, money won't be a problem--companies will pay a shitload to have their ad seen by every single person that owns a PS3 (this will become more relevant when sales pick up, obviously.) A shirt for your avatar that cost jack shit to create and host could bring in $100 grand after a ton of people buy it.

they can do it, we just have to hope they're going to make it very enticing for devs to integrate their games with it.[/quote] it all depends. the ads wont be simple flash or banner ads like on a webpage. according to them its HD video; thats extremely bandwidth intensive. unless they were just BSing. im inclined to believe they were since it would pretty much restrict its usability to any1 w/ a 10+Mb/s connection. the video will probably be DLed in the background and just looped when you enter. as for the microtranactions, i see that plan as failing miserably. imo console users dont have the same mindset as those mmorpg addicts who will spend real $ for virtual stuff to brag about. they tend to be more casual gamers who just turn the machine on for an hour or two to race some friends or kill aliens.

[quote name='NamPaehc']Also I wonder how this might effect multiplayer games. With the streaming video, we might see live viewing of games as they are happening. It would be great if they hosted tournaments with live announcers where you sat around in the gaming lounge, talking trash and waiting for your turn to race while watching others zooming around a track.

He mentioned "pets in the future". Hope you don't have to buy food for them! :p[/quote] that would be cool, but i dont see it ever happening. i really dont see how they can stream that much video either. imo the only video actually being streamed would be that little feature where you put the little bravia down and stream something. but ill wait and see on that. i have a feeling its not going to work well considering how, especially in the US, broadband upload speeds are pretty meager & its probably a distributed bandwidth implementation. the large video in the lounges is most likely DLed while once in awhile while the previous one is looped. which also makes me wonder how much hard drive space it will take. they'll want to cache the ads for a while so they dont have to keep sending them to you 'cause bandwidth=$.

& lol at buying the pets food. im not sure the US would fall for that, but japan just might considering its where tamogotchis came from
 
it all depends. the ads wont be simple flash or banner ads like on a webpage. according to them its HD video; thats extremely bandwidth intensive. unless they were just BSing. im inclined to believe they were since it would pretty much restrict its usability to any1 w/ a 10+Mb/s connection. the video will probably be DLed in the background and just looped when you enter. as for the microtranactions, i see that plan as failing miserably. imo console users dont have the same mindset as those mmorpg addicts who will spend real $ for virtual stuff to brag about. they tend to be more casual gamers who just turn the machine on for an hour or two to race some friends or kill aliens.
Click to expand...

well, imo, you have been living under a rock for the past year as far as gaming news goes. not that that is a bad thing :lol:

XBLA has proven it works. People download tons of useless crap on it-- horse armor, gamer pictures, themes, music, videos, live arcade games. XBL points themselves are a racket since you are always left with a remainder, making it easier for someone to slide into their next purchase. how else would MS make the 360 so profitable so fast?

and imo, people would be more likely to spend microtransaction money on something like PS Home vs. a lifeless text based GUI.

It's better than a gamer pic or dashboard theme that you can't customize in any meaningful way (besides a crappy live camera photo) and that forces you to represent yourself with some random avatar that MS thought was fit for the XBLA. I personally don't want Kameo characters on my dashboard with a gamerpic that probably won't have any tasteful style to it at all. Which is why I purposely picked the most random one I could find ;)

I'd rather have something I can customize and design myself. Sure, I may still be in the limitations of the icons Sony offers me, but from what I've seen in the vids, there is a lot to choose from. I think this approach won't just please me, as people will be wowed by the way home looks. The graphics are slick, the style is very sleek and modern, and all without the "durrr I'm a gam3r! Joanna Dark is kewl!" approach MS is insulting me with on XBL. Hopefully they'll even let you "un-modernize" it in some way.

finally, I think you're underestimating the ad money. for one thing, bandwidth costs aren't that bad. just because we get raped by Comcast and companies like that doesn't mean Sony pays the same price. and advertisers pay a shitload to be seen. they won't just have game companies, they'll probably open the doors to anyone.
 
I watched the 2 minute video of Home and I thought it looked super cool. I am really pumped for this. I plan to get a PS3 at the end of the year, and now with this and a lot of pretty good games hitting the system later this year, I am really looking forward to the PS3.

I'm glad is actually doing someting with the online and trying to match up to XBL. I think it's only going to get better too.
 
I dont have a PS3, and had no plans to get one.

I laughed at all of Sony's missteps so far with the PS3.

But both 'Home' and that Little Big Planet game both look completely awesome!

Sony is definitely doing something positive here, and these may the be first steps needed to turn the ship around and clean up their image.

These are the first PS3 applications that Ive seen that made me think that maybe I do want a PS3.
 
[quote name='Apossum']well, imo, you have been living under a rock for the past year as far as gaming news goes. not that that is a bad thing :lol:

XBLA has proven it works. People download tons of useless crap on it-- horse armor, gamer pictures, themes, music, videos, live arcade games. XBL points themselves are a racket since you are always left with a remainder, making it easier for someone to slide into their next purchase. how else would MS make the 360 so profitable so fast?

and imo, people would be more likely to spend microtransaction money on something like PS Home vs. a lifeless text based GUI.

It's better than a gamer pic or dashboard theme that you can't customize in any meaningful way (besides a crappy live camera photo) and that forces you to represent yourself with some random avatar that MS thought was fit for the XBLA. I personally don't want Kameo characters on my dashboard with a gamerpic that probably won't have any tasteful style to it at all. Which is why I purposely picked the most random one I could find ;)

I'd rather have something I can customize and design myself. Sure, I may still be in the limitations of the icons Sony offers me, but from what I've seen in the vids, there is a lot to choose from. I think this approach won't just please me, as people will be wowed by the way home looks. The graphics are slick, the style is very sleek and modern, and all without the "durrr I'm a gam3r! Joanna Dark is kewl!" approach MS is insulting me with on XBL. Hopefully they'll even let you "un-modernize" it in some way.

finally, I think you're underestimating the ad money. for one thing, bandwidth costs aren't that bad. just because we get raped by Comcast and companies like that doesn't mean Sony pays the same price. and advertisers pay a shitload to be seen. they won't just have game companies, they'll probably open the doors to anyone.[/quote] no im not underestimating it. microtransactions in XBL are almost all for actual game content. things like dashboards are just simple one time purchases not recurring transactions & theyre designed to improve the look to you, not to impress other people.

as for the points system being a racket, you should learn about it more. it actually makes the purchases less expensive because it eliminates the credit industry as being a middleman. even on small transactions theres an average of 2.75% + $0.35 in fees for most credit transactions which inflates the cost. so buying say a hat or whatnot in this 3d world may go from being a borderline sane $0.10 to a crazy $1. being able to buy chunks of points eliminates this. it also means you can shop for deals on points and effectively get games cheaper.

im not underestimating bandwidth cost. theres a reason sony cant offer it free & host the games at the same time. look around, good redundant datacenters on fat pipes cost big bucks. MS uses Limelight for XBL; which also sells bandwidth to youtube. for comparison when youtube was just starting it was using $1 million a month in bandwith just pushing small 1-20MB flash videos. XBL has a constant datastream 2 ways of about 500K per user & the GB+ demos & additional content from publishers (e.g. GoW, lost planet) just add to the costs. granted the demos are offset by publishing fees paid to MS but the additional content isnt. & i have no idea what "durrr I'm a gam3r! Joanna Dark is kewl!" is supposed to mean, so ill just leave that 1 alone:lol:
 
I would respond fully but I think we should agree to disagree :)

I don't claim to know how it's going to work, but I have faith that Sony's MBAs figured it out. :lol:

my basic theories:

1. People will be more likely to buy items for a customizable avatar and space than on gamerpics of Joanna Dark and Nacho Libre.
2. Advertisers will pay a shitload to get on there.
3. ???
4. Free PSN!

I'm sure there are other sources of funding to fuel it, but this is over my head.
 
I haven't really read what these are about (as I'm blocked at work). But I think one major flaw is Sony using REAL money. When people buy MS Points, they think...hey, it's only points. PLUS, you can buy MS points on sale, or a discount. I have YET to pay $20 for a 1600 point card.

HOWEVER, with Playstation, you have to pay $20 for a game or $8 for Flow. Not sure how they will try to rape users with the PS Home idea (what is it...just a large space for people to hang out online? I don't really get the idea yet as I haven't read too much about it).

I'll take anything FREE though...so, the base idea is good. Improvement is good. I just wish they would offer separate points *ala* MS.
 
I do hope they introduce some kind of physical card you can buy, so we can get cheap deals on them. I don't see why they wouldn't-- it's another SKU for them to sell.

But I like knowing how much I'm paying online. if I'm buying something direct, I want to pay in cash, not carnival tickets.
 
Yeah, points are cool when you can get a discount.

But I really like just paying cash (well, credit) and getting exactly what I want.
 
[quote name='H.Cornerstone']They already introduced cards in Japan, and the PS3 Firmware already supports it, all sony needs to do now is actually sell them....[/quote]

Yeah, but the cards are of monetary value aren't they? Not points.

Like you can buy a PS card worth $20.
Basically gift cards.
 
[quote name='dallow']Yeah, but the cards are of monetary value aren't they? Not points.

Like you can buy a PS card worth $20.
Basically gift cards.[/quote]

Exactly, but maybe Circuit City and Best Buy could then package these gift cards for you with a purchase of a ps3 or a game.
 
[quote name='H.Cornerstone']Exactly, but maybe Circuit City and Best Buy could then package these gift cards for you with a purchase of a ps3 or a game.[/quote]

Highly doubtful. (and I'm definitely not buying a PS3 for a gift card)

You have to buy these cards and put whatever dollar amount you want on them.

It's for people who don't like using their credit card online, or want to give as a gift for someone.
 
Well if best buy or target or some place gives you free Best Buy gift cards with the purchase of something you could use that towards it. Either way more possibilities.
 
[quote name='propeller_head']one of the advantages of MS hosting all the games is developers have that standardization, and the global communication is painless. for PSN to match it they would have to support redundancy & build a constant bridge to all the servers instead of just handing off players. thats an expensive thing to do & it will incur recurring costs which will be hard for sony to eat even w/ ad support.[/QUOTE]

Yea, that is the main edge XBL has and will have on PSN. Because it is all on dedicated servers, it is much easier to standardize all features. It's great to have MS being so adamant about a great online service, just wish developers would get on board too.

I realize that with XBL, MS basically incorporates all its standard features for developers (which is great), but, I feel, at this point, developers should see the popularity of Live and should be willing to incorporate PSN and XBL features into their game themselves, instead of having companies like MS mandate it. It's a shame that Sony isn't taking more inetiative to have PSN features standard in all games, but, at the same time, its also a shame that developers don't seem to be as willing.
 
[quote name='doubledown']I haven't really read what these are about (as I'm blocked at work). But I think one major flaw is Sony using REAL money. When people buy MS Points, they think...hey, it's only points. PLUS, you can buy MS points on sale, or a discount. I have YET to pay $20 for a 1600 point card.

HOWEVER, with Playstation, you have to pay $20 for a game or $8 for Flow. Not sure how they will try to rape users with the PS Home idea (what is it...just a large space for people to hang out online? I don't really get the idea yet as I haven't read too much about it).

I'll take anything FREE though...so, the base idea is good. Improvement is good. I just wish they would offer separate points *ala* MS.[/QUOTE]

I'm glad they didn't go with points. By using points, some people get the mentality that they aren't spending as much as they actually are. Prices don't seem to be any different on PSN, but its more up front about how much we are spending.
 
[quote name='dpatel']I'm glad they didn't go with points. By using points, some people get the mentality that they aren't spending as much as they actually are. Prices don't seem to be any different on PSN, but its more up front about how much we are spending.[/QUOTE]

But like he said, we're CAGs. I pay approximately $10 for $20 worth of Microsoft Points. I'm not overly concerned if someone else is not familiar with the points/money conversion and doesn't realize how much they are spending.
 
[quote name='shipwreck']But like he said, we're CAGs. I pay approximately $10 for $20 worth of Microsoft Points. I'm not overly concerned if someone else is not familiar with the points/money conversion and doesn't realize how much they are spending.[/QUOTE]

Thank you. See.....I REFUSE to pay $20 for Tekken 5, but if it was MS, I would've paid only $5 to $10 for this card. Thus, I would've bought that and FLOW. Now, I passed on both....see, they lost money on me.

Sony would still make $20 on the card they sold (or whatever profit they get from a B&M store). Technically they are selling me the game for $20, but I only paid $5-$10 for a card.

See what I'm saying now....I was the first person to bash MS Points, but now I love it. I know people lose track of how much they are spending (smart on MS part though).
 
ohhh. my fault. I didn't understand his point at first. Yea, I completely overlooked the fact that points are being found for less than retail. They is definitely great.
 
And again the "standerized login or whatever" is on the way- wasn't ready for launch.

I don't like points. I like knowing how much something is and then paying that price. With home I don't expect things to cost very much at all. After a while I doubt you'll really notice the differance in using money verus credit. But well, CAG seem to HAVE to get deals so even though the PSN titles have very good prices you might not get them anyway.

Also something I noticed, we don't know if they are going to actually have one huge world, or "mirrors" like they do with games like WoW. If you watch the keynote video, there is a log on screen that has a few server names and "Max Users" and then "100,000" below it. So that might defeat some of the bandwidth problems.
 
[quote name='NamPaehc']Also something I noticed, we don't know if they are going to actually have one huge world, or "mirrors" like they do with games like WoW. If you watch the keynote video, there is a log on screen that has a few server names and "Max Users" and then "100,000" below it. So that might defeat some of the bandwidth problems.[/QUOTE]

Ooh, that brings up the whole issue of making sure you are on the same server as all of your friends though.
 
Aren't a lot of PS2 games and Resistance hosted on infrastructure servers as well? I don't know much about networking, but I seem to recall people saying that many 360 games lag because the servers are making peer to peer connections instead of hosting the games themselves.

just curious.

[quote name='shipwreck']Ooh, that brings up the whole issue of making sure you are on the same server as all of your friends though.[/QUOTE]


that's not much of an issue. you can coordinate things with messages.
 
This definitely looks interesting and is something I expected to come to the PS3. Once this gets implemented and a few more games come out, I can definitely see the PS3 making a rise in sales. My only worry, as stated earlier, is the possibility of microtransactions for stupid things like the chairs and other crap that you would use to decorate your interior space. If that's the case... fuck it, I'll be a homeless bum and push around my trophies in a shopping cart. I'm all for creativity and none sensical sim-like shit, but microtransactions will not be taking my money. But I've jumped the gun. Let's wait til there is official word and such before I start to bitch and complain.
 
It's good of Sony to finally put together something like this, an online interface. It SHOULD have been available at launch, but better late than never.

I'll take live over this though. After working retail and seeing the kinds of people who are hardcore enough gamers to get into the whole home thing, I don't want to interact with them or visit their homes. Blah. You know the whole home system is going to be a cesspool of Gangsta rap/emo looking morons and kids typing vulgar langage all over the place because it's cool.

Basically, go on some random Myspace page and gauge how nauseated you are with people's stupidity.

That said it's not much unlike the morons on xbox live, except now they can create hideous visual spaces and characters in the online space instead of just shouting at you.
 
[quote name='Apossum']not right now you can't.[/QUOTE]
You can if you believe in yourself...

...

...No wait, nvm, it didn't work. Either I wasn't believing hard enough or you cant sign up yet.
 
[quote name='PKRipp3r']refresh.... refresh.... refresh....

:)[/QUOTE]


I've been refreshing for the past two hours straight. still don't see it. maybe I'll go for another hour if F5 doesn't break.
 
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