The WWE Is Entertainment Not Wrestling Thread

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meh, that's "movie stuff" that McMahon and Kevin Dunn fuckin' adore.

The only thing I'll give those two credit for in terms of production is that they have their cameras where they are supposed to be. TNA would have NEVER in their lifetime caught Triple H being flipped to the mat off the announce table at the low angle WWE used.
 
That's a well-produced video. WWE video production has been top notch for a very long time now. However, did they try to equate him with some true WWE high points at the beginning? That is just adorable.
 
[quote name='JJSP']Bret Hart/Steve Austin, Wrestlemania 13. I loved their whole feud, the double turn was fantastic, and the promo videos they shot with Austin still give me chills.

"They say you dream in black and white, Bret..."

On the topic of CotC, I absolutely LOVED the elevated aisle they used. Always made it feel like a big time deal.[/QUOTE]

Seeing Austin in the Sharpshooter bleeding buckets without tapping was a defining moment of Wrestlemania. Great match!
 
[quote name='mykevermin']

HBK/Jericho, WMXIX.

[/QUOTE]

Man, what an amazing match. Definitively one of my favorites too. I wish I still had it on DVD.
 
[quote name='neocisco']That's a well-produced video. WWE video production has been top notch for a very long time now. However, did they try to equate him with some true WWE high points at the beginning? That is just adorable.[/QUOTE]

I didn't take it that way at all. To me, it was him watching the moments that made him want to main event Wrestlemania.
 
Eh. Take the music off that Miz one and it's not that great.

...which is what I fear may happen on the DVD. WWE has never exactly been loose with the purse strings when it comes to ponying up for music on DVD releases. Can't wait to see what they do to edit the Triple H entrance.
 
Those two can afford such violations, like Ochocinco in the NFL. I'm sure it's a pittance.

Question - the top two matches for WM28 are set: Cena/Rock and likely Undertaker/HHH. Between now and next April, Cena will assuredly earn his spot, like it or not. Undertaker has a guaranteed spot, and one he earned years ago.

But if you're of the "Creative isn't sure what to do with you right now" kind, like a Daniel Bryan, Ted DiBiase, or frankly anyone outside of the top 8 or so guys in the WWE, how do you feel knowing that your work won't get you a top spot at Wrestlemania in 12 months - instead, those matches are set, and involve people (1 or 2, your call) who haven't done enough lately to deserve them?
 
I think it's generally accepted that there is now a level of match above the championships at Wrestlemania. I think this actually affords the younger guys more of an opportunity because you know you won't be seeing H/Taker/Cena going for belts they've held so many times.

Yeah, there's still Edge,Orton, and Punk - but you can still pair the younger guys with one of them. However having that higher tier means that they can do something like have the Royal Rumble winner lose 4 years in a row since it's no longer the focal point.
 
[quote name='OnyxPrimal']WWE announced on their corporate website that Triple H and Undertaker were fined for violating the company's policy regarding a chair shot to the head during their WrestleMania 27 match. You can read the announcement at Corporate.WWE.com.

http://www.prowrestling.net/artman/publish/WWE/article10017840.shtml[/QUOTE]

If that were anybody and I mean ANYBODY else they'd have been fired, buried, or both. On the plus side, it's nice to see that even the two top guys (as far as backstage pull and influence go) can suffer consequences for violations, even this is a slap on the wrist compared to the actions of some other people.
 
^ Right on the disparity.

Yesterday, Mr Beef posted an interview w/ the dude who was Muhammad Hassan. Kind of a bland interview, though I respect the dude for semi-staying out of the business (the interview ignored entirely that he used WWE to catapult to an acting career that went nowhere, thus now he wants to go back to school). Anyway, I forgot how that character ended - and that he (and Daivari) were both shitcanned because of a skit on Smackdown (fuck it, if they want to be entertainments, they're skits) that was poorly and coincidentally timed with the London bombings in 2006.

WWE writers put out something tasteless and tactless, and Hassan gets fired as red meat. See also: Fit Finlay's recent treatment. See also: John Cena and Michael Cole, two very non-expendable people getting nothing for using (in Cena's case, repeated) homophobic slurs.

Lesson learned: you're untouchable at some point, but until you are, you're completely expendable. Let's see what happens if JTG called someone a homophobic name on twitter.
 
[quote name='lombarvm']I was at Heatwave '98 from the Hara Arena in Dayton, OH. Fond memories of Bubba Ray Dudley berating the crowd.[/QUOTE]

Haha, nice... every time I see Bubba Ray Dudley I always think of when Sid responded to the "challenge" after Bubba was giving shit to the crowd/locker room at Living Dangerously.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oS0_rZ-hUqA
 
One question: Where is Awesome Kong? I thought she signed with WWE and was supposed to be starting as far back as the rumble.....
 
God damn I miss going to ECW shows. Once they finally started touring more outside the NY/Phlly area I went to every show that stopped in Detroit. The first time they came to Detroit in '97 it wasn't for a TV taping or anything, just at a rec center. During the second match RVD wrestled Ulf Hermann - at one point Van Dam did a forward flip off the top to the floor and landed on me more than he did his opponent. I didn't care, it was fucking awesome. Later in the show Sandman came through the crowd. I moved to step out of the way and he stepped in the same direction. So I stepped in the other direction, so did he. Then a third time until I finally just completely moved out of the way. So fucking awkward since he was maintaining his GRR SERIOUS face the whole time.

Almost all the wrestlers were just milling around before the show and would sign & take pics. Plus I was finally able to buy a few shirts without having to pay shipping. Later on they did some of the TNN tapings nearby which was also awesome, although obviously a little more organized. My friend approached a wrestler from behind to get an autograph, thinking it was Roadkill. It wound up being Sal Graziano when he turned around.
 
Mankind/UT Hell in a Cell '98 I think?

Edge Christian/Dudley Boys/Hardy Boys TLC match

HHH/Cactus Jack Royal Rumble '00

Hogan/Andre WM3 (Just seeing Hogan bodyslam Andre still gives me goosebumps)
 
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There was an altercation between TNA Wrestling talent Matt Hardy and members of the Tough Enough cast at a hotel bar in Atlanta, Georgia during WrestleMania XXVII weekend.

While details of the incident have to be disclosed, Reby Sky, Hardy's girlfriend, revealed on her Formspring account that she and Hardy were "banned for life" from the hotel in question.

One WWE source said that if a main roster talent had done some of the things they did, termination would be likely if they were low enough on the totem pole.
That's "Cold Blood" for ya.

EDIT: I'm in tears right now at suggestions for Sin Cara's gimmick on another board. The best one is to have him randomly hurricanrana unsuspecting Tough Enough contestants. Imagining them not being able to sleep, constantly wearing night-vision goggles and flinching at the slightest creak just keeps making me laugh.
 
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New Observer has this funny bit -
Dixie Carter’s facebook page had this entry over the weekend: “TNA is canceled in Australia on Fox8. I’m deeply sorry that every other country still has it on TV.” I’m guessing that was later deleted.
 
[quote name='Mr. Beef']That's "Cold Blood" for ya.

EDIT: I'm in tears right now at suggestions for Sin Cara's gimmick on another board. The best one is to have him randomly hurricanrana unsuspecting Tough Enough contestants. Imagining them not being able to sleep, constantly wearing night-vision goggles and flinching at the slightest creak just keeps making me laugh.[/QUOTE]

Link?
 
My favorite match for a long time was Angle/HBK at WrestleMania 21. Not sure how much that perception was skewed by being there live. For the past year, the same has applied to HBK/Undertaker from WMXXVI. Off the top of my head, other matches I really enjoyed were Bret/Owen from WrestleMania X, Flair/Steamboat at Clash of the Champions, Benoit/Angle at Royal Rumble 2003, TLC from WrestleMania X-7 , the 4 way tag team title match from PWG Seven, Steamboat vs. Savage at WMIII, Austin/HHH vs. Jericho/Benoit for the tag titles on Raw in 2001, HHH/HBK/Benoit WMXX triple threat, and the first Samoa Joe/AJ Styles/Christopher Daniels triple threat.

I'm sure I could come up with a more varied selection that's not so heavy on PPV and WWE matches, but that's just off the top of my head.
 
The first three that come to my mind right away [that wasn't Bret vs. Owen at WM10]:

I always enjoyed Macho Man vs. The Ultimate Warrior at Wrestlemania 7. I don't recall one guy overdominating the other, plus there was the reunion between Elizabeth and Randy afterwards.

I'm also going to include two with Sean Waltman. First his match with Owen Hart at KOTR 94. It's very short but everything they do is fast and crisp. During the time, Waltman is selling the injury he sustained from Jeff Jarrett earlier that night so I can only imagine what it would have been like if the 1-2-3 kid went in "fresh".

The next one is the opening match against Hakushi at Summerslam (95?). I love the finish where Waltman goes for a spinning kick and Hakushi grabs him in air and powerbombs him.

In general though, I love battle royales ESPECIALLY the Royal Rumble. Who is fighting who? When will a certain wrestler show up? I love that kind of unpredictable match.
 
From @MATTHARDYBRAND on Twitter: "Just so everyone knows, the silly story we've been joking about 2day was created by a dirtsheet, not by Reby or I. Solid reporting there WO." He's also been taking a lot of shots at Dave Meltzer today.
 
Not being interested for a number of years has really blanked out my memory of a lot of my favorite matches. Though Jericho being the undisputed champion is definitely a moment I really loved. Wonder if the match lives up to that....
 
[quote name='Mr. Beef']For the Matt Hardy thing I quoted? Here: http://rajah.com/base/node/22473

I hear that there's more reports coming in from other sources (which I do not have the link to, sorry) that it was Matt Hardy that instigated it.[/QUOTE]

Oh, sorry, for the gimmick discussion on Sin Cara.
 
Got Kurt RussellReunion II today from Highspots - awesome show. The opening 8-person tag was a lot of fun, with some comedy, and some pretty fast action at points. Aguilera-Bucanero was okay, although Aguila looked a bit off and botched easily the most convoluted setup for a fucking bodyslam I've ever seen. He did the wacky top rope leap-armdrag deal, slipped on the ropes, finally got up there, dive a flip...and just held onto his opponent so he could hit a slam. Made RVD's matches seem downright realistic by comparison.

Helms-Joey Ryan featured Helms cutting the best promo of his career...when it was audible, and Joey Ryan's new look is great. It's a step up from his pure comedy '70s porn star deal, but still manages to make him look like a sleazy motherfucker, so it works. Helms' indy red and black gear looks really good, but the Hurrigut has to go. Joey Ryan was supposed to be a heel here, but Hurricane was beyond hated for knocking HBK. Ryan did, finally, turn himself heel by cutting a promo against the fans for not appreciating his technical greatness. Then he won and they chanted "don't come back" at Helms. The match itself was kinda not much because Helms didn't really do a whole lot, but everything but it was at least really amusing.

Low-Ki-Davey Richards was a good mix of ground work and stiff kicks. Loved Low-Ki hitting a double stomp to counter the Alarm Clock and the finish teasing, then delivering the Warrior's Way was really well done.

Roberts-Kizarny was just what it needed to be - an easy match for Jake to look as good as possible in. Kizarny's gear now has teddy bears on it. Jake got pretty emotional when the crowd chanted " thank you, Jake" at him, which was nice. Jake's punches still looked better than 90% of the ones thrown nowadays. The match went about five minutes with lots of stalling, but they teased the DDT throughout, and then delivered. Well, as much as possible - Jake can't take the back bump for the DDT anymore, so he just kinda fell on his side. Still, I expected worse, and this was okay. Easier to get through than Cole-Lawler or Bret-Vince because it didn't go any longer than it needed to.

Bill Apter and Mean Gene doing the WrestleRoyal pre-match stuff was awesome. They had some really classy intro for Orndorff, Sheiky, Harley Race, Masa Saito, who actually ran the ropes pretty quickly. The match started off with Danny Davis and Mike Graham, who is in his 60s and has ink on both arms. He and Danny did a lock-up and he nearly fell on his ass breaking away from it. Then he did a headlock, which of course, he invented. The usual DVD menu music they have works for that, but boy is it ever terrible for entrance music as a replacement for the real stuff they used and they muted everything else to get it in there, so you sometimes can't even hear guys being introduced. The "fuck him up, Jimmy, fuck him up" chant for Hart ruled. Barry O came out in a T-Shirt and and purple and yellow plaid shorts, tried to do the leap over the ropes and just fucked it up massively. Barbarian came out and looked pretty close to what he did in his day.

Rock Riddle came out and looked old in floral Lawler-ish gear. Shane Douglas looked to be in better shape than he was in TNA last year. Warlord looks more intimidating with some grey in his beard. CHAVO CLASSIC came out and was hilarious when he doubled crossed Warlord twice. Helms came out and got booed louder than anyone else. Bob Orton Jr. came out and his poor arm still hasn't healed yet. A fat guy in like green tights with yellow trunks and a mask came out and did jumping jacks. Mondo Guerrero wore, I think, a black women's tank top of some sort. Even coming after said fat man in green, this was odd. TERRY FUNK came out and attacked Shane Douglas one last time. Savio Vega came out and looked fantastic - hasn't aged much since the mid-'90s and he moved pretty well. Piper came out and POKED BOB ORTON JR IN THE EYES. How dare he treat his bodyguard like that. Sean Moley hit the ring with an "I LOVE RATS" shirt. Piper poked more eyes. Tatanka and Vampiro came out, didn't do much. Dudes got eliminated and actually looked decent with the over the top bumps. Terry Funk and Piper were the last two, and Funk's speech about needing to pray to pay homage to the lost wrestlers was fucking awesome. He made himself into the ultimate face, thanked the people there, those in heaven, and then bonked Piper with the mic and then kept beating him up. Piper looked fantastic moving around here. They they did crowd brawling before it became a battle royal again, they had an awesome punch exchange that everyone who worked the show should've learned something from, and then good triumphed over evil as Piper eliminated that vile, egg-sucking dog Terry Funk.

Hero-Steen was a good brawl. Steen's dive off the lighting rig was...something. Hard to tell exactly what since he was cloaked in darkness thanks to poor lighting, ironically enough. So yeah, that wasn't exactly the smartest of moves to do. Luckily, no one got hurt, so the action afterwards was able to be fast-paced. The cyclone kill spin kick looked fantastic and worked nicely as a finish.

The four-way tag with the Bucks was full of wacky, flippy-dos and solid tag action. GTS>Rolling elbow combo was a great near-fall, and was far more logical than the actual finish - the RockNES Monsters doing an FU to the other guy onto the opponents and winning. Steen beat the fuck out of them, which I enjoyed. Claudio-Generico was a lot of fun. Loved the HUGE throw into the (very) European Uppercut and the long tease for the Ricola bomb -including one off the top that got countered into a rana. The spinning stretch muffler made for an awesome finish. Joey Ryan's post-match attack built up his future title match well, Hero coming to make the save was great, and then Claudio said he'd kick Joey's ass and pinpointed which parts of the ring he'd do it in. fucking awesome. I enjoyed last year's RussellMania show, and the sequel was even better. It might tempting to just hit up a torrent for the show, but buy it if you can - you'll definitely get $20 of value out of it.
 
Favorites:
WWE/WWF
Angle-Benoit, Rumble
Owen-Bret, WM X
Owen-Kid, KOR94 (really short, but excellent)
Angle/Benoit v. Edge/Rey, No Mercy - WWE Tag Title (SD) Tournament Finals.

WCW
Flair - Steamboat - Spring Stampede 1994 and Chi-Town Rumble 1989
Rey-Eddy (various)
Dragon v. Rey - Hog Wild
Benoit v. Malenko - Hog Wild
Juventud Guerrera v. Blitzkrieg - Spring Stampede 1999
Romeo/Skipper v. Air Raid - Nitro 2001
Romeo/Skipper v. Kidman/Misterio - Greed

TNA
AJ v. Low-Ki v. Lynn - Weekly PPV
AJ v. Joe v. Daniels (all of them)
AJ/Daniels v. LAX (all)
The entire AMW run during the weekly PPVs. The tag matches were great.
All of 2005 when they had no TV except as Xplosion/Internet

ECW
ECW November to Remember 1995 was the seminal ECW card to me. Fun at the time, but definitely doesn't hold up.
Michinoku Pro Tags (Barely Legal 1997 is one)
Storm v. RVD - Barely Legal 97

Indy
Dragon Gate Six Mans from ROH WM weekend shows in 2006 (ROH Supercard of Honor) and 2008
Gabriel/Altar Boy Luke/AJ Styles v. Azrael/Christopher Daniels/Rainman - Six Man Tag - NWA Wildside Hardcore Hell 2004

In other news, Mania weekend was fun. I recommend everyone who is a fan go at least once. Seats were regularly on camera near the annoying guy with the SCWANN/ZHANN sign. If you have any screen caps with a guy in a LANCE STORM shirt, that's me. DGUSA and ROH were excellent. Show of the weekend was the Friday show. The regular coverage on the Observer was apparently mine.

Pictures are here, but I am horrible at taking pictures with my phone:
http://www.facebook.com/michael.langan2
 
[quote name='Cage017']
I'm also going to include two with Sean Waltman. First his match with Owen Hart at KOTR 94. It's very short but everything they do is fast and crisp. During the time, Waltman is selling the injury he sustained from Jeff Jarrett earlier that night so I can only imagine what it would have been like if the 1-2-3 kid went in "fresh".

The next one is the opening match against Hakushi at Summerslam (95?). I love the finish where Waltman goes for a spinning kick and Hakushi grabs him in air and powerbombs him.[/QUOTE]


I didn't even READ this before seeing someone else claimed Kid v. Owen from KOR94. Love that one. Hakushi's run in 1995 was excellent, up and down.
 
Dirt sheet garbage, but sorta funny.

There is some nuclear heat backstage on John Morrison (and Melina by association) regarding Morrison's treatment of Trish Stratus both in the ring and backstage at WM27. There are those who felt Morrison resented Stratus' placement in the tag team match at WM27, feeling it should have been Melina's spot. Reports are saying that Morrison repeatedly shot down every idea Stratus had for the match and was overall an extreme pain to work with. Morrison continued this lack of cohesiveness in the ring during the actual match with his awkward body language toward Stratus. After the match Snooki hugged Morrison. Stratus went in to hug Morrison, but Morrison turned his back to her. He also used Snooki to keep himself away from direct contact with Stratus. Stratus was said to be extremely put off by Morrison's attitude and told officials that his attitude towards her geniunely hurt her feelings. Stratus is extremely well-regarded by WWE officials and wrestlers that were there during Stratus' run, so needless to say, Morrison is not a locker room favorite at the moment. Many feel this incident is going to put Morrison in the doghouse, much like MVP's treatment when he irritated a drug testing agent a few years ago. There were also a few people who wouldn't be surprised if this was the final straw for Melina, since there are expected to be a few roster cuts coming up shortly. Some theorized that in addition to Morrison feeling it should have been Melina's spot, Morrison may have felt pressured by Melina to snub Stratus, as to not upset Melina by making her think there was some kind of enjoyment involved. This came up due to the public details of Morrison and Melina's relationship. Morrison is generally regarded as a nice guy backstage, but no one really has any respect for him due to constantly allowing Melina to engage in sexual relationships with other men while they still maintain a relationship. He particularly lost a lot of respect for never confronting Batista when he admitted in his 2007 book Batista Unleashed that the rumors of him having a sexual relationship with Melina were true.
 
[quote name='MrNEWZ']Favorites:
Owen-Kid, KOR94 (really short, but excellent)[/QUOTE]

Glad to see some love for that here. At the time I thought that match was fucking incredible. Everything was really high impact. It made Owen look like a ruthless prick because Kid had been annihilated in the previous round, could barely make it to the ring, and Owen still just drops huge bombs on him. Then Kid somehow comes back and gets some convincing hope spots. Great stuff.

Edit - Found it. Watch it, it only takes a few minutes. Plus it has Art "HOW MUCH DUZ DIS GUY WEIGH?" Donovan on commentary!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1XueVsn2s4
 
So, the press release came out, and the switch to simply 'WWE' is official.

I'd be bothered by this, but they're never really used 'World Wrestling Entertainment' the same way they used 'World Wrestling Federation', so it's an irrelevant change.

I'm hoping this leads to a new logo, though.
 
[quote name='007']So, the press release came out, and the switch to simply 'WWE' is official.

I'd be bothered by this, but they're never really used 'World Wrestling Entertainment' the same way they used 'World Wrestling Federation', so it's an irrelevant change.

I'm hoping this leads to a new logo, though.[/QUOTE]

So this thread title is serious? Has Vince ever given an explanation why he hates wrestling so much?

And everyone is saying the boos for Cena were worse than ever. It seems people always say that, but I never hear them being progressively worse. In fact, I remember at least a few times where the boos were way worse than this week. One that comes to mind is WM22 in Chicago. It seems that crowd was especially hateful towards him. I don't know, it ebbs and flows. But it seems there is a certain contingent that is too cool to like Cena that is always pretty overwhelming, no matter how many 5 year olds and women are in the crowd...

But then again, for the past 4-5 years I have watched maybe the RR and WM PPVs and a handful of RAWs in between. So you guys may be effected by watching consistently and having 3 months of crowd indifference to Cena, followed by some bitter hate at the apex of some feud. I could see how that would make you think that the boos were stronger than ever, but I really don't think they are.
 
He sees wrestling as low-brow entertainment that only yokels and schmucks enjoy, and sees himself and his empire above that.

He's not entirely wrong, as demographics of wrestling program tv ratings show a fanbase that is less educated and earns less than the average US household.

But he doesn't seem to want to admit how he contributes to television programs that appeal to uneducated, poor white folks by portraying paper thin characters that are racial/ethnic stereotypes, by producing a program that is so lacking in a sense of subtlety in storytelling that they devoted a segment of the UT/HHH promotional material the past few weeks to TELLING YOU that the first segment b/w those two to start the feud involved no spoken words at all, and by storytelling arcs that lack depth and complexity. I'll defend pro wrestling because I enjoy it, but it's not Agatha Christie's Poirot in terms of the quality of writing.

Vince is trying to expand again, I guess. The difference now is that he took his assets (from pro wrestling) to fund XFL, to fund WWE Films, to fund ICO/PRO, etc. When those failed, he still had his money maker in wrestling and no debt - just lost money. Now he's talking about WWE's ability to accrue debt in purchasing other commodities to broaden their "entertainment" business.

Now that WWE is deeply afraid of being pro wrestling, I can't be the only one who is deeply fearful of the WWE network, right? Like it's not going to be professional wrestling - replays of classic WCW and WWF programming won't be shown, because WWE bought the distribution rights to "Dawson's Creek" instead.
 
I was thinking the same thing (as far as the WWE channel). I'm guessing if they want to get it up an running sooner than later that it's going to wind up a lot like how G4 progressed in terms of content. At first it'll mostly be wrestling from the various tape libraries, but within a few months it'll start throwing in content only semi-related to wrestling ("The Marine - tonight at 8pm, 11pm, and 2 am!"), and eventually more than half the programming lineup will be shit that has zero to do with wrestling.
 
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