The Yes We CAG Movement - Now to win the Presidency!
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thrustbucket
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[quote name='pittpizza']Spoken like a true pessimistic conservative: not surprising.[/QUOTE]
Pessimistic yet the "Survey says" conservatives are happier?
Kind of a contradiction...
I am not saying Obama is not who you think he is. I am saying if he is, he won't get elected. There is really only 3 ways you can be sure to know if Obama is the pure as the driven snow, caring, savior you hope for.
1. Hillary beats him
2. McCain beats him
3. He dies in an unfortunate accident before Novemeber.
I know everyone really wants to find and believe in a savior figure that will come riding in with radical new ideals, isn't part of the standard "system" that's been running government for 100 years, and fights for truth, justice, and the American way. But it ain't going to happen. The system wouldn't let it happen.
This government hasn't been a real government of the people for the people since 1885. Corporations get politicians elected. This system is so entrenched, that it's impossible for an "outsider" to come in and mess it up. It couldn't happen.
If that makes me conservative and/or pessimistic, so be it.
If that makes me a conspiracy theorist, so be it.
But if holding on to hope makes your life better somehow, I'm all for it.
Pessimistic yet the "Survey says" conservatives are happier?
Kind of a contradiction...I am not saying Obama is not who you think he is. I am saying if he is, he won't get elected. There is really only 3 ways you can be sure to know if Obama is the pure as the driven snow, caring, savior you hope for.
1. Hillary beats him
2. McCain beats him
3. He dies in an unfortunate accident before Novemeber.
I know everyone really wants to find and believe in a savior figure that will come riding in with radical new ideals, isn't part of the standard "system" that's been running government for 100 years, and fights for truth, justice, and the American way. But it ain't going to happen. The system wouldn't let it happen.
This government hasn't been a real government of the people for the people since 1885. Corporations get politicians elected. This system is so entrenched, that it's impossible for an "outsider" to come in and mess it up. It couldn't happen.
If that makes me conservative and/or pessimistic, so be it.
If that makes me a conspiracy theorist, so be it.
But if holding on to hope makes your life better somehow, I'm all for it.
[quote name='pittpizza']Spoken like a true pessimistic conservative: not surprising.[/quote]
Actually, a new study released this week shows that conservatives are consistently happier and more optimistic than liberals, precisely because they're not bogged down by all of that pesky "worrying about other people" stuff.
http://www.livescience.com/health/080507-liberal-conservative.html
I find it telling that ThrustBucket cites this study, without bothering to mention WHY conservatives are happier, which is essentially that they are better at rationalizing away uncomfortable truths....which is precisely what he's been doing in this thread for months.
Actually, a new study released this week shows that conservatives are consistently happier and more optimistic than liberals, precisely because they're not bogged down by all of that pesky "worrying about other people" stuff.
http://www.livescience.com/health/080507-liberal-conservative.html
I find it telling that ThrustBucket cites this study, without bothering to mention WHY conservatives are happier, which is essentially that they are better at rationalizing away uncomfortable truths....which is precisely what he's been doing in this thread for months.
fatherofcaitlyn
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[quote name='Tybee']Nope. That's no longer the case. In fact, Michigan already reached an agreement to apportion its delegates (69 to Clinton, 59 to Obama) and Florida will as well and there's still mathematically no way they would move Clinton past or even close to Obama, nor give her enough to win the nomination.
How many ways must we say this? IT'S OVER.[/quote]
That's
ing awesome.
Got a link to the agreement?
How many ways must we say this? IT'S OVER.[/quote]
That's
ing awesome.Got a link to the agreement?
pittpizza
CAGiversary!
Conservatives may be happier, but that doesn't mean they're not pessimistic about politics.
Conservaties seem to think that people in general are lazy pieces of shit who are just free-loaders and will exploit any help given to them. They rationalize "things are the way they are and nobody can change it, so you might as well just accept it (hence the greater happiness/contentedness)."
Trying to change things is naive and fruitless. Those who don't agree are just idealistic and will soon become disenchanted.
It's sad really, I feel sorry for people who think this way.
Well Obama hasn't been disenchanted yet, nor will he be in the future. Moreover, the fact he has ideals is a good thing, not a bad thing. The past 8 years, coupled with the lowest approval rating in the history of the US Presidency, has shown us this pessimistic "can't fight the system so assimilate" view has not worked and is not what the people want.
Moreover, it's not corporations and special interests funding Obama's campaign and voting for him: it's the people. Get ready for a change thrust, b/c the winds are shifting.
BTW, good points Tybee: telling indeed. .
Conservaties seem to think that people in general are lazy pieces of shit who are just free-loaders and will exploit any help given to them. They rationalize "things are the way they are and nobody can change it, so you might as well just accept it (hence the greater happiness/contentedness)."
Trying to change things is naive and fruitless. Those who don't agree are just idealistic and will soon become disenchanted.
It's sad really, I feel sorry for people who think this way.
Well Obama hasn't been disenchanted yet, nor will he be in the future. Moreover, the fact he has ideals is a good thing, not a bad thing. The past 8 years, coupled with the lowest approval rating in the history of the US Presidency, has shown us this pessimistic "can't fight the system so assimilate" view has not worked and is not what the people want.
Moreover, it's not corporations and special interests funding Obama's campaign and voting for him: it's the people. Get ready for a change thrust, b/c the winds are shifting.
BTW, good points Tybee: telling indeed. .
thrustbucket
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[quote name='Tybee']
I find it telling that ThrustBucket cites this study, without bothering to mention WHY conservatives are happier, which is essentially that they are better at rationalizing away uncomfortable truths....which is precisely what he's been doing in this thread for months.[/QUOTE]
So let me get this straight, if you don't let your so-called "uncomfortable truths" ruin your life and make you depressed, you don't care?
I'm dying to hear you explain your logic on how happiness is somehow tied to ignorance or not caring.
[quote name='pittpizza']
Conservaties seem to think that people in general are lazy pieces of shit who are just free-loaders and will exploit any help given to them. They rationalize "things are the way they are and nobody can change it, so you might as well just accept it (hence the greater happiness/contentedness)."[/quote]
I don't know any conservatives that think like that, that's your interpretation of how they think, hence your inability to understand them.
BTW - I might have conservative leanings in some of my beliefs, but I don't align myself with "conservatives". You do a nice job of painting me, and everyone you disagree with, with that brush.
I would not call putting faith in a presidential candidate "trying to change things".
Go become an activist for tearing apart the government somehow and building it back up, and I'll accept you as someone "trying to change things".
I take offense to the suggestion that I advocate assimilation. I advocate far more change than you are even willing to admit is needed. Change that can never come from falling for distractionary puppet shows like modern US elections.
One of these days I'm hoping you snap out of the "Republican bad, Democrat Good" trance long enough to see your wasting your time with that BS.
I find it telling that ThrustBucket cites this study, without bothering to mention WHY conservatives are happier, which is essentially that they are better at rationalizing away uncomfortable truths....which is precisely what he's been doing in this thread for months.[/QUOTE]
So let me get this straight, if you don't let your so-called "uncomfortable truths" ruin your life and make you depressed, you don't care?
I'm dying to hear you explain your logic on how happiness is somehow tied to ignorance or not caring.
[quote name='pittpizza']
Conservaties seem to think that people in general are lazy pieces of shit who are just free-loaders and will exploit any help given to them. They rationalize "things are the way they are and nobody can change it, so you might as well just accept it (hence the greater happiness/contentedness)."[/quote]
I don't know any conservatives that think like that, that's your interpretation of how they think, hence your inability to understand them.
BTW - I might have conservative leanings in some of my beliefs, but I don't align myself with "conservatives". You do a nice job of painting me, and everyone you disagree with, with that brush.
Not true. Again, your big fat broad stroke brush is on full power this morning.
I would not call putting faith in a presidential candidate "trying to change things".
Go become an activist for tearing apart the government somehow and building it back up, and I'll accept you as someone "trying to change things".
I guess that's part of being in the "unhappy" category?
I don't know what you mean by "disenchanted" here, so I can't comment on that.
I take offense to the suggestion that I advocate assimilation. I advocate far more change than you are even willing to admit is needed. Change that can never come from falling for distractionary puppet shows like modern US elections.
One of these days I'm hoping you snap out of the "Republican bad, Democrat Good" trance long enough to see your wasting your time with that BS.
Continuing to believe that won't make it true.
Oh I fully expect some big changes. And they are all mostly changes that have been in the works for decades.
pittpizza
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Thrust if I was talking about you, I'd use your name.
Look at the words I chose to use. I say what I mean.
Moreover most of my last post was generalizations. You may disagree, but IMO generalizations would not exist if they weren't generally true.
Conservatives do have less faith in people than liberals. Conservatives think we ought not to try to help people that can't help themselves, b/c conservatives find some way to rationalize their averice (the poor are just lazy, stupid, or freeloaders, and deserve every minute of the suffering they bring upon themselves). They reason: "why can't everybody just take care of themselves like me?"
Why should I (a conservative) have to give up my luxuries to support the indigent when it's not my fault they're indigent? I don't need/want these people in my society, so I shouldn't have to support them.
It basically comes down to a selfishness (conservative) vs. selflessness (liberal) difference of opinion.
And I don't ever see things as black and white thrust. I've told you this already. No person is 100% conservative on every single issue and no liberal (myself included) is ever 100% liberal on every issue. Generalizations, however, are great because they don't have to apply 100% of the time and you can still discuss them.
Voting for a candidate whose platform is "Change we can believe in" is a pretty damn good way to effectuate change IMO.
You're right about one thing though: belief won't make something true. It being the truth is what makes it true. Lemme ask you this thrust: Why do you think big-oil/pharma/insurance/special interests/haliburton/the super rich/etc. are shitting in their pants right now in fear of Obama getting elected?
Because the party isin over baby! Bush's decade of pandering to the uber-wealthy is over, and it's time for the people to take it back!
The changes I speak of are not ones that have been brewing for decades (I think you need to use a dictionary to look up "change"). The changes I speak of are the type that are going to be exacted through a re-functioning of democracy, where policies that have made the people afraid of the government will go "bye bye" and policies that will make the government afraid of the people will say "hello!"
The current exec. administration seems to think of the people as a nuisance. Just an afterthought getting in the way of what Bush wants to do. The next exec. administration will actually work FOR THE PEOPLE, and not view them as just a nuisance which must be kept happy.
Look at the words I chose to use. I say what I mean.
Moreover most of my last post was generalizations. You may disagree, but IMO generalizations would not exist if they weren't generally true.
Conservatives do have less faith in people than liberals. Conservatives think we ought not to try to help people that can't help themselves, b/c conservatives find some way to rationalize their averice (the poor are just lazy, stupid, or freeloaders, and deserve every minute of the suffering they bring upon themselves). They reason: "why can't everybody just take care of themselves like me?"
Why should I (a conservative) have to give up my luxuries to support the indigent when it's not my fault they're indigent? I don't need/want these people in my society, so I shouldn't have to support them.
It basically comes down to a selfishness (conservative) vs. selflessness (liberal) difference of opinion.
And I don't ever see things as black and white thrust. I've told you this already. No person is 100% conservative on every single issue and no liberal (myself included) is ever 100% liberal on every issue. Generalizations, however, are great because they don't have to apply 100% of the time and you can still discuss them.
Voting for a candidate whose platform is "Change we can believe in" is a pretty damn good way to effectuate change IMO.
You're right about one thing though: belief won't make something true. It being the truth is what makes it true. Lemme ask you this thrust: Why do you think big-oil/pharma/insurance/special interests/haliburton/the super rich/etc. are shitting in their pants right now in fear of Obama getting elected?
Because the party is
in over baby! Bush's decade of pandering to the uber-wealthy is over, and it's time for the people to take it back!The changes I speak of are not ones that have been brewing for decades (I think you need to use a dictionary to look up "change"). The changes I speak of are the type that are going to be exacted through a re-functioning of democracy, where policies that have made the people afraid of the government will go "bye bye" and policies that will make the government afraid of the people will say "hello!"
The current exec. administration seems to think of the people as a nuisance. Just an afterthought getting in the way of what Bush wants to do. The next exec. administration will actually work FOR THE PEOPLE, and not view them as just a nuisance which must be kept happy.
[quote name='thrustbucket']So let me get this straight, if you don't let your so-called "uncomfortable truths" ruin your life and make you depressed, you don't care?
I'm dying to hear you explain your logic on how happiness is somehow tied to ignorance or not caring. [/quote]
Why talk about MY logic on the subject when the explanation is right there in the link I posted, if you'd bothered to take a look.
Hmmm...So you reserve your respect for those involved with violent and unlawful overthrow of their government? That's interesting, especially since it's been proven time and again that this is the least effective way to achieve desired change. Rather, any political scientist or sociologist will tell you that pursuing incremental change within an established governmental system is far more effective than tearing everything down and starting from scratch.
But of course, everyone loves a revolution on paper.
I'm dying to hear you explain your logic on how happiness is somehow tied to ignorance or not caring. [/quote]
Why talk about MY logic on the subject when the explanation is right there in the link I posted, if you'd bothered to take a look.
Hmmm...So you reserve your respect for those involved with violent and unlawful overthrow of their government? That's interesting, especially since it's been proven time and again that this is the least effective way to achieve desired change. Rather, any political scientist or sociologist will tell you that pursuing incremental change within an established governmental system is far more effective than tearing everything down and starting from scratch.
But of course, everyone loves a revolution on paper.
thrustbucket
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Sigh. Can't believe I'm about to do this again.... But work sucks today, so here goes.
[quote name='pittpizza']
Moreover most of my last post was generalizations. You may disagree, but IMO generalizations would not exist if they weren't generally true. [/quote]
Well obviously. Your world view can't exist without gross generalizations, that's half the fun in these discussions with you.
Which side is the one that DOES NOT believe people will take care of people, so it needs to be FORCED by a government?
Conservatives actually DO have faith in people to take care of other people on their own, that need it. That's what their whole platform is about, about giving people the benefit of the doubt, keeping authority out of their lives to let people have the power to take care of people. If liberals had faith in people, why are they so hard core about taking the power (money) out of people's hands and into the government to "help" people?
You have stated before, in other threads, that you believe without government oversight, greed will run rampant and more people will suffer. So explain to me how that is FAITH IN PEOPLE?
Are you really naive enough to believe that all conservatives/republicans are evil greedy people that don't care about anyone or want to take care of anyone besides themselves?
Please tell me I'm misunderstanding that your political view is defined by such jr high level assumptions and generalizations. It's getting difficult to continue giving you the benefit of the doubt.
Without convincing the populace that they are miserable (Democrat) or afraid (Republican) and they are the fix, you can't get elected. Hitler had a similar platform (no i'm not equating hitler to obama, before you misunderstand again). So? A platform built on a hot-air slogan is far from "pretty damn good".
I'll hand Obama one thing, he has somehow positioned himself, and his platform, as an amorphous universal complaint box where the simple minded can toss any issue they are upset about in, and have it magically changed. It's very much like a cult.
They aren't. That's mediamatters bullshit. If you followed the money careful enough you would see that the largest contributors to EVERY candidate is the same banks, investment firms, and corporations. These entities won't allow anyone to be in charge that's not in their pocket to some extent. That's the part you refuse to get.
I know a few ubber wealthy people, and they don't feel pandered to, nor do they like the current administration.
Your first mistake in that paragraph is believing we exist in a functioning democracy. Once you figure out we don't, the rest is easy, and most of what you keep repeating from talking points will no longer apply.
My god. You really have bought this propaganda it hook, line, and sinker, haven't you?
I have to keep remembering that it's pointless to discuss things with people that really do prefer the matrix.....
[quote name='pittpizza']
Moreover most of my last post was generalizations. You may disagree, but IMO generalizations would not exist if they weren't generally true. [/quote]
Well obviously. Your world view can't exist without gross generalizations, that's half the fun in these discussions with you.
Did you really just say that?
Which side is the one that DOES NOT believe people will take care of people, so it needs to be FORCED by a government?
Wrong again. This is the best proof yet for your complete misunderstanding of conservative principles. I'm considering making it my signature.
Conservatives actually DO have faith in people to take care of other people on their own, that need it. That's what their whole platform is about, about giving people the benefit of the doubt, keeping authority out of their lives to let people have the power to take care of people. If liberals had faith in people, why are they so hard core about taking the power (money) out of people's hands and into the government to "help" people?
You have stated before, in other threads, that you believe without government oversight, greed will run rampant and more people will suffer. So explain to me how that is FAITH IN PEOPLE?
You really can't break out of the black vs white, liberal vs conservative, republican vs democrat nursery, can you? You really do believe one party is all about love, peace and freedom, and taking care of each other, while the other is all about greed, hate, and oppression?
Are you really naive enough to believe that all conservatives/republicans are evil greedy people that don't care about anyone or want to take care of anyone besides themselves?
Please tell me I'm misunderstanding that your political view is defined by such jr high level assumptions and generalizations. It's getting difficult to continue giving you the benefit of the doubt.
I'm sorry, you are not going to impress most inteligent people by repeating such a general "feel good" slogan that could be attached to any politician in history. No politician ever gets elected by saying "More of the same! No change!"
Without convincing the populace that they are miserable (Democrat) or afraid (Republican) and they are the fix, you can't get elected. Hitler had a similar platform (no i'm not equating hitler to obama, before you misunderstand again). So? A platform built on a hot-air slogan is far from "pretty damn good".
I'll hand Obama one thing, he has somehow positioned himself, and his platform, as an amorphous universal complaint box where the simple minded can toss any issue they are upset about in, and have it magically changed. It's very much like a cult.
They aren't. That's mediamatters bullshit. If you followed the money careful enough you would see that the largest contributors to EVERY candidate is the same banks, investment firms, and corporations. These entities won't allow anyone to be in charge that's not in their pocket to some extent. That's the part you refuse to get.
I hope the Democratic party pays you well for at least sounding like a plant.Because the party is
I know a few ubber wealthy people, and they don't feel pandered to, nor do they like the current administration.
Your first mistake in that paragraph is believing we exist in a functioning democracy. Once you figure out we don't, the rest is easy, and most of what you keep repeating from talking points will no longer apply.
My god. You really have bought this propaganda it hook, line, and sinker, haven't you?
I have to keep remembering that it's pointless to discuss things with people that really do prefer the matrix.....
pittpizza
CAGiversary!
[quote name='thrustbucket']More pessimism and "democracy failed" rhetoric.[/quote]
At least you stopped thinking that my every post was about you personally.
Dude...enough with the black and white/naive/generalizations comments. I already told you I know the world is filled with grey. I'm simply making GENERAL points to argue (which I enjoy, and hope you do too since you seem to like doing it so much) the pros and cons of each point of view taken to it's extreme. Every individual feels the balance should be struck somewhere differently.
Ehh thrust, I think you're just ornry that the conservative's day is ending.
About the faith in people, what I meant was basically that liberals give a shit about each other, and conservatives give a shit about themselves. Liberals are the ones who try to fight inequality: conservatives try to maintain inequality. Liberals are the ones who want to make sure that every American citizen can afford healthcare, conservatives are the ones who only want those that can afford it to have access to healthcare. Liberals are the ones who want to ensure that every American has an equal opportunity to succeed, conservatives are the ones who already believe that every American has an equal opportunity to succeed as it is already (a laughable POV). Of course these are generalizations, spare me your comments about it and get over it, they're GENERALLY true.
Hmm...try this: "Liberals REALIZE that people are not taking care of people (we know this empirically), so we ought to step in do it collectively where private charities are failing." After all, we are a nation right? We ought to care about each other and take care of each other right?
You tell me which one cares more for his fellow man?
You're not in favor of taking from the rich and giving to the poor? I'm gonna start calling your the Sheriff of Nottingham. What the is the matter with you? Never saw Robin Hood? Robin Hood was a liberal, with some bad ass bow and arrow skills to boot!
Moreover, you seem willing to admit that Obama can motivate people, get the masses motivated and has an almost "cult" following, yet act as if these are bad things for a leader to have. What gives? These are faningtastic traits for the figurehead of a nation to have. I mean ! Look at Bush's public speaking skills and the state of our nation (economy, war, healthcare, you choose). These factors, BTW, coupled with the lowest approval rating in the history of the presidency, are also why liberals don't need any convincing that life under Bush is miserable compared to life under Clinton. Bush couldn't even motivate Strell to flame someone who busts on Wii's friendcodes.
I know you're not trying to call Obama Hitler. I'll admit that hitler was a great motivator, leader, and speaker. He did a good job motivating his population. Too bad he was ain genocidal psycho megalomaniac. Obama on the other hand seems to have all of these good qualities and none of the bad.
As far as my naivety: every conservative who hears a liberal talking about how things could be better responds with a sentence containing the word "naive." It's played out and flat-out wrong. Attempting to improve your country through your vote is not naive, nor is it idealistic. It's called democracy yain ignorantly blissful pessimists.
You may think it's failing and I sort of agree, Bush's power grabs have caused a constitutional crisis and only when an executive (like Obama) takes office that is willing to give power back to the other branches of government, and concomitantly back to the people, will the democracy again start to function as it should: with checks and balances.
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED! IRAQ HAS WMD'S!! WE'RE NOT IN A RECESSION!!
At least you stopped thinking that my every post was about you personally.
Dude...enough with the black and white/naive/generalizations comments. I already told you I know the world is filled with grey. I'm simply making GENERAL points to argue (which I enjoy, and hope you do too since you seem to like doing it so much) the pros and cons of each point of view taken to it's extreme. Every individual feels the balance should be struck somewhere differently.
Ehh thrust, I think you're just ornry that the conservative's day is ending.
About the faith in people, what I meant was basically that liberals give a shit about each other, and conservatives give a shit about themselves. Liberals are the ones who try to fight inequality: conservatives try to maintain inequality. Liberals are the ones who want to make sure that every American citizen can afford healthcare, conservatives are the ones who only want those that can afford it to have access to healthcare. Liberals are the ones who want to ensure that every American has an equal opportunity to succeed, conservatives are the ones who already believe that every American has an equal opportunity to succeed as it is already (a laughable POV). Of course these are generalizations, spare me your comments about it and get over it, they're GENERALLY true.
Hmm...try this: "Liberals REALIZE that people are not taking care of people (we know this empirically), so we ought to step in do it collectively where private charities are failing." After all, we are a nation right? We ought to care about each other and take care of each other right?
You tell me which one cares more for his fellow man?
You're not in favor of taking from the rich and giving to the poor? I'm gonna start calling your the Sheriff of Nottingham. What the
is the matter with you? Never saw Robin Hood? Robin Hood was a liberal, with some bad ass bow and arrow skills to boot!Moreover, you seem willing to admit that Obama can motivate people, get the masses motivated and has an almost "cult" following, yet act as if these are bad things for a leader to have. What gives? These are fan
ingtastic traits for the figurehead of a nation to have. I mean ! Look at Bush's public speaking skills and the state of our nation (economy, war, healthcare, you choose). These factors, BTW, coupled with the lowest approval rating in the history of the presidency, are also why liberals don't need any convincing that life under Bush is miserable compared to life under Clinton. Bush couldn't even motivate Strell to flame someone who busts on Wii's friendcodes. I know you're not trying to call Obama Hitler. I'll admit that hitler was a great motivator, leader, and speaker. He did a good job motivating his population. Too bad he was a
in genocidal psycho megalomaniac. Obama on the other hand seems to have all of these good qualities and none of the bad. As far as my naivety: every conservative who hears a liberal talking about how things could be better responds with a sentence containing the word "naive." It's played out and flat-out wrong. Attempting to improve your country through your vote is not naive, nor is it idealistic. It's called democracy ya
in ignorantly blissful pessimists. You may think it's failing and I sort of agree, Bush's power grabs have caused a constitutional crisis and only when an executive (like Obama) takes office that is willing to give power back to the other branches of government, and concomitantly back to the people, will the democracy again start to function as it should: with checks and balances.
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED! IRAQ HAS WMD'S!! WE'RE NOT IN A RECESSION!!
thrustbucket
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Pizza, you are still missing the entire point. I won't waste my time with a point by point this time, because you continue to miss it.
But let me just say that the reason I brought up the matrix, and said what I said about you feeling everything is a conservative vs liberal ideal war.... is because it's all ultimately a huge lie. The conflict you feel it necessary to be a part of is a planned illusion.
Most everything you spend your time arguing and posting about, like above... IS THE MATRIX.
In the movie the matrix, what were most people in the matrix doing? The majority of humanity was inside a pointless puppet show, blissfully ignorant of the truth as long as they created power - believing things were important, spending time and focus on things they thought were important. And in the story.... just how important did those things turn out being? That's what I'm talking about. That level of deceit.
I believe all these things you just spent time arguing about are a distraction. A major distraction so certain things beyond our control can be moved into place and enacted.
Conservatives are not right. Liberals are not right. No political party is right. It's all a huge media driven mis-direction campaign to keep you from realizing what is actually important is subtly being wiped out, and none of the long dead "democratic process" can save it.
I won't even begin on discussion on what IS important, or what to do about it... because it's pointless as long as you are still obsessed with Presidents, presidential candidates, wars, and party talking points.
As long as you and people like you, are addicted to eating up everything the mainstream media tells us is important, and are addicted to happily playing out the roles that those really in power behind the scenes need you to fulfill - there isn't a whole lot to discuss further.
As an analogy, all this political bullshit people get so caught up in is ultimately much like a colony of aunts fighting over what to do with a leaf, while a superhighway is being constructed next to them that they have almost no way of seeing or comprehending, nor desire to.
But let me just say that the reason I brought up the matrix, and said what I said about you feeling everything is a conservative vs liberal ideal war.... is because it's all ultimately a huge lie. The conflict you feel it necessary to be a part of is a planned illusion.
Most everything you spend your time arguing and posting about, like above... IS THE MATRIX.
In the movie the matrix, what were most people in the matrix doing? The majority of humanity was inside a pointless puppet show, blissfully ignorant of the truth as long as they created power - believing things were important, spending time and focus on things they thought were important. And in the story.... just how important did those things turn out being? That's what I'm talking about. That level of deceit.
I believe all these things you just spent time arguing about are a distraction. A major distraction so certain things beyond our control can be moved into place and enacted.
Conservatives are not right. Liberals are not right. No political party is right. It's all a huge media driven mis-direction campaign to keep you from realizing what is actually important is subtly being wiped out, and none of the long dead "democratic process" can save it.
I won't even begin on discussion on what IS important, or what to do about it... because it's pointless as long as you are still obsessed with Presidents, presidential candidates, wars, and party talking points.
As long as you and people like you, are addicted to eating up everything the mainstream media tells us is important, and are addicted to happily playing out the roles that those really in power behind the scenes need you to fulfill - there isn't a whole lot to discuss further.
As an analogy, all this political bullshit people get so caught up in is ultimately much like a colony of aunts fighting over what to do with a leaf, while a superhighway is being constructed next to them that they have almost no way of seeing or comprehending, nor desire to.
pittpizza
CAGiversary!
[quote name='thrustbucket']Pizza, you are still missing the entire point. I won't waste my time with a point by point this time, because you continue to miss it.
But let me just say that the reason I brought up the matrix, and said what I said about you feeling everything is a conservative vs liberal ideal war.... is because it's all ultimately a huge lie. The conflict you feel it necessary to be a part of is a planned illusion.
Most everything you spend your time arguing and posting about, like above... IS THE MATRIX.
In the movie the matrix, what were most people in the matrix doing? The majority of humanity was inside a pointless puppet show, blissfully ignorant of the truth as long as they created power - believing things were important, spending time and focus on things they thought were important. And in the story.... just how important did those things turn out being? That's what I'm talking about. That level of deceit.
I believe all these things you just spent time arguing about are a distraction. A major distraction so certain things beyond our control can be moved into place and enacted.
Conservatives are not right. Liberals are not right. No political party is right. It's all a huge media driven mis-direction campaign to keep you from realizing what is actually important is subtly being wiped out, and none of the long dead "democratic process" can save it.
I won't even begin on discussion on what IS important, or what to do about it... because it's pointless as long as you are still obsessed with Presidents, presidential candidates, wars, and party talking points.
As long as you and people like you, are addicted to eating up everything the mainstream media tells us is important, and are addicted to happily playing out the roles that those really in power behind the scenes need you to fulfill - there isn't a whole lot to discuss further.
As an analogy, all this political bullshit people get so caught up in is ultimately much like a colony of aunts fighting over what to do with a leaf, while a superhighway is being constructed next to them that they have almost no way of seeing or comprehending, nor desire to.[/quote]
RRRrrrriiiiiiiiiiiight. Sure. Whatever you say boss.
You're starting to sound like level1online.
But let me just say that the reason I brought up the matrix, and said what I said about you feeling everything is a conservative vs liberal ideal war.... is because it's all ultimately a huge lie. The conflict you feel it necessary to be a part of is a planned illusion.
Most everything you spend your time arguing and posting about, like above... IS THE MATRIX.
In the movie the matrix, what were most people in the matrix doing? The majority of humanity was inside a pointless puppet show, blissfully ignorant of the truth as long as they created power - believing things were important, spending time and focus on things they thought were important. And in the story.... just how important did those things turn out being? That's what I'm talking about. That level of deceit.
I believe all these things you just spent time arguing about are a distraction. A major distraction so certain things beyond our control can be moved into place and enacted.
Conservatives are not right. Liberals are not right. No political party is right. It's all a huge media driven mis-direction campaign to keep you from realizing what is actually important is subtly being wiped out, and none of the long dead "democratic process" can save it.
I won't even begin on discussion on what IS important, or what to do about it... because it's pointless as long as you are still obsessed with Presidents, presidential candidates, wars, and party talking points.
As long as you and people like you, are addicted to eating up everything the mainstream media tells us is important, and are addicted to happily playing out the roles that those really in power behind the scenes need you to fulfill - there isn't a whole lot to discuss further.
As an analogy, all this political bullshit people get so caught up in is ultimately much like a colony of aunts fighting over what to do with a leaf, while a superhighway is being constructed next to them that they have almost no way of seeing or comprehending, nor desire to.[/quote]
RRRrrrriiiiiiiiiiiight. Sure. Whatever you say boss.
You're starting to sound like level1online.
Now THAT is a funny mental picture, lol. Where did all the uncles and cousins go?
Lv99 Slacker
CAG Veteran
The Portland rally. I think somewhere between 65k-80,000 people attended.
[quote name='pittpizza']
Hmm...try this: "Liberals REALIZE that people are not taking care of people (we know this empirically), so we ought to step in do it collectively where private charities are failing." After all, we are a nation right? We ought to care about each other and take care of each other right?
[/QUOTE]
That's it in a nutshell. People have shown they don't give enough of a shit about anyone but themselves and their family (and many only about themselves period).
Hell you can look back to the great depression and how bad that got on people, and that was in a time when people were more family and community oriented than they are in todays fast paced, technology dominated world.
And I'm not bashing anyone here. I can guarantee you if there weren't taxes, welfare etc. there's no way that I'd donate nearly as much money as what I pay in taxes toward such goals, as I'm just as guilty of being aloof and detached from the worse off around us as anyone else.
Hmm...try this: "Liberals REALIZE that people are not taking care of people (we know this empirically), so we ought to step in do it collectively where private charities are failing." After all, we are a nation right? We ought to care about each other and take care of each other right?
[/QUOTE]
That's it in a nutshell. People have shown they don't give enough of a shit about anyone but themselves and their family (and many only about themselves period).
Hell you can look back to the great depression and how bad that got on people, and that was in a time when people were more family and community oriented than they are in todays fast paced, technology dominated world.
And I'm not bashing anyone here. I can guarantee you if there weren't taxes, welfare etc. there's no way that I'd donate nearly as much money as what I pay in taxes toward such goals, as I'm just as guilty of being aloof and detached from the worse off around us as anyone else.
fullmetalfan720
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[quote name='HuppSav']Obamma is like Jesus' second coming.[/quote]
Just FYI it's Obama not Obamma.
Just FYI it's Obama not Obamma.
mykevermin
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I got to finally vote in my primary this morning.
Lv99 Slacker
CAG Veteran
To watch the live streams of the Wesleyan commencement speech that Ted Kennedy was supposed to give, but Obama will now give in his place, paste this link into your Windows Media Player: http://www.fc-tv.com/webcast/conover/conover-hi.asx
CNN link: http://www.cnn.com/video/live/live.html?stream=stream2
CNN link: http://www.cnn.com/video/live/live.html?stream=stream2
mykevermin
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http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/C/CLINTON?SITE=OHCIN&SECTION=AMERICAS&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
...and then there was one.
...and then there was one.
[quote name='mykevermin']http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/C/CLINTON?SITE=OHCIN&SECTION=AMERICAS&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
...and then there was one.[/quote]
Looking forward to the speeches tonight. Hopefully I'll make it home from the Braves/Marlins game in time to hear them live.
Hope Obama pulls out wins in both Montana and South Dakota for extra emphasis, but I suspect he'll have little trouble getting enough superdelegates by this evening to put him over the top, regardless.
...and then there was one.[/quote]
Looking forward to the speeches tonight. Hopefully I'll make it home from the Braves/Marlins game in time to hear them live.
Hope Obama pulls out wins in both Montana and South Dakota for extra emphasis, but I suspect he'll have little trouble getting enough superdelegates by this evening to put him over the top, regardless.
Lv99 Slacker
CAG Veteran
Religious Right Figure Gets Chills: Obama Could Win 40 Percent Of Evangelicals
The Huffington Post | June 6, 2008 11:56 AM
(SOURCE: BeliefNet.com)
06/06/08
Wed Jun 11, 2:43 AM ET
By CHARLES BABINGTON, Associated Press Writer
The Huffington Post | June 6, 2008 11:56 AM
(SOURCE: BeliefNet.com)
EXCLUSIVE: Obama Campaign will Launch 'Joshua Generation Project'
06/06/08
Christian leaders meet privately with Obama
The Brody File has learned that in the next two weeks Barack Obama's campaign will unveil a major new program to attract younger Evangelicals and Catholics to their campaign.
It's called the "Joshua Generation Project." The name is based on the biblical story of how Joshua's generation led the Israelites into the Promised Land.
A source close to the Obama campaign tells The Brody File the following:
"The Joshua Generation project will be the Obama campaign's outreach to young people of faith. There's unprecedented energy and excitement for Obama among young evangelicals and Catholics. The Joshua Generation project will tap into that excitement and provide young people of faith opportunities to stand up for their values and move the campaign forward."
The official rollout won't be for another two weeks or so, but The Brody File has been told the activities will include house parties, blogging, concerts and more.
You can see the logo on this page above.
Obama spoke about the "Joshua Generation" in a speech he gave in Selma, Alabama in March of 2007. Read part of that speech below. It will give you an good idea of where the Obama campaign is heading with this effort:
Obama: "I'm here because somebody marched. I'm here because you all sacrificed for me. I stand on the shoulders of giants. I thank the Moses generation; but we've got to remember, now, that Joshua still had a job to do. As great as Moses was, despite all that he did, leading a people out of bondage, he didn't cross over the river to see the Promised Land. God told him your job is done. You'll see it. You'll be at the mountain top and you can see what I've promised. What I've promised to Abraham and Isaac and Jacob. You will see that I've fulfilled that promise but you won't go there. We're going to leave it to the Joshua generation to make sure it happens. There are still battles that need to be fought; some rivers that need to be crossed. Like Moses, the task was passed on to those who might not have been as deserving, might not have been as courageous, find themselves in front of the risks that their parents and grandparents and great grandparents had taken. That doesn't mean that they don't still have a burden to shoulder, that they don't have some responsibilities. The previous generation, the Moses generation, pointed the way. They took us 90% of the way there. We still got that 10% in order to cross over to the other side. So the question, I guess, that I have today is what's called of us in this Joshua generation? What do we do in order to fulfill that legacy; to fulfill the obligations and the debt that we owe to those who allowed us to be here today?"
The whole speech is here.
The Brody File said awhile back that the Obama campaign would be making a concerted effort to attract Evangelicals and Catholics to their campaign.
Yes, the Obama campaign understands that the issue of abortion is a problem for some voters of faith. They respect that and understand if some just simply can't come on board because of that. However, they look at this project as a way of broadening the values discussion. Poverty, Darfur, Climate Change and yes, even the war are issues younger Evangelicals may be able to see eye to eye on with the Obama campaign.
Whatever you think of the "Joshua Generation Project," you have to give the campaign their due because they are making concerted efforts to NOT ignore faith voters. In my reporting, I can tell you this is not a contrived effort.
The folks behind this believe in not only the mission of winning over faith voters to Obama but the larger mission of not ignoring faith voters when it comes to politics.
Wed Jun 11, 2:43 AM ET
By CHARLES BABINGTON, Associated Press Writer
(more at link)
Lv99 Slacker
CAG Veteran
I am not alarmed by Obama's efforts to reach out to Evangelicals and Catholics. I'm agnostic, but I do, of course, realize that there is more to Christianity than hating gays and passing judgment. I've heard Obama use phrases like "I am my brother's keeper"[1] or "we are our brother's keeper". He can (has, of course) talk about looking out for the poor; do unto others as you would have others do unto you; "acting as good stewards of god’s earth when our bottom line buts the size of our profits ahead of the future of our planet."[2]
[1] (VIDEO) PBS | Religion & Ethics -- Barack Obama: "I am my brother's keeper"
January 2, 2008 7:00 PM
October 14, 2007 3:28 PM
Then there is the famed speech he gave at MLK's Ebenezer Baptist Church on 01/29/08. (VIDEO)
[1] (VIDEO) PBS | Religion & Ethics -- Barack Obama: "I am my brother's keeper"
January 2, 2008 7:00 PM
[2] Obama Has A Little Faith in Climate Change
October 14, 2007 3:28 PM
(more at link)
Then there is the famed speech he gave at MLK's Ebenezer Baptist Church on 01/29/08. (VIDEO)
CrimsonSnipette
CAG Veteran
But what does he pin it on while in the shower?...
Oh snap! Obama just revealed his VP pick! Check it out:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/12/politics/obama-vp.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/12/politics/obama-vp.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
fatherofcaitlyn
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Lol.
McCain: In the 21st century, countries don't invade other countries.
McCain: In the 21st century, countries don't invade other countries.
Last edited by a moderator:
moonknight25
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[quote name='Tybee']Oh snap! Obama just revealed his VP pick! Check it out:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/12/politics/obama-vp.html?_r=1&oref=slogin[/quote]
I just about pissed myself!!!! That shit is funny man!
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/12/politics/obama-vp.html?_r=1&oref=slogin[/quote]
I just about pissed myself!!!! That shit is funny man!
GuilewasNK
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fatherofcaitlyn
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McCain: I'll have my staff get back to you on how many houses I own. I'm too busy being a man of the people.
When is McCain going to follow in the steps of Ford and Dole and fall down?
When is McCain going to follow in the steps of Ford and Dole and fall down?
mykevermin
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Obama reveals his VP pick tomorrow!
I've been avoiding the news almost entirely in this area, mostly because ANYONE talking about who they think the VP pick is is a total and complete LIAR. They're just armchair speculating. If it were a sports event, it would be you and your friends televised drinking beer talking about who's going to win the Super Bowl when it's only July. The news is terrible in this regard, and the news never holds journalists accountable for being totally wrong and offbase in their predictions.
It'sing irksome.
So I'm curious who it is. They'll be campaigning together in Illinois tomorrow.
I've been avoiding the news almost entirely in this area, mostly because ANYONE talking about who they think the VP pick is is a total and complete LIAR. They're just armchair speculating. If it were a sports event, it would be you and your friends televised drinking beer talking about who's going to win the Super Bowl when it's only July. The news is terrible in this regard, and the news never holds journalists accountable for being totally wrong and offbase in their predictions.
It's
ing irksome.So I'm curious who it is. They'll be campaigning together in Illinois tomorrow.
[quote name='mykevermin']Obama reveals his VP pick tomorrow!
I've been avoiding the news almost entirely in this area, mostly because ANYONE talking about who they think the VP pick is is a total and complete LIAR. They're just armchair speculating. If it were a sports event, it would be you and your friends televised drinking beer talking about who's going to win the Super Bowl when it's only July. The news is terrible in this regard, and the news never holds journalists accountable for being totally wrong and offbase in their predictions.
It'sing irksome.
So I'm curious who it is. They'll be campaigning together in Illinois tomorrow.[/QUOTE]
I thought he was going to reveal it today? At least that's what I heard on the radio this morning, and it's pretty much going to be revealed at anytime. I'm quite anxious to know.
I've been avoiding the news almost entirely in this area, mostly because ANYONE talking about who they think the VP pick is is a total and complete LIAR. They're just armchair speculating. If it were a sports event, it would be you and your friends televised drinking beer talking about who's going to win the Super Bowl when it's only July. The news is terrible in this regard, and the news never holds journalists accountable for being totally wrong and offbase in their predictions.
It's
ing irksome.So I'm curious who it is. They'll be campaigning together in Illinois tomorrow.[/QUOTE]
I thought he was going to reveal it today? At least that's what I heard on the radio this morning, and it's pretty much going to be revealed at anytime. I'm quite anxious to know.
fullmetalfan720
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[quote name='RAMSTORIA']I thought he was going to reveal it today? At least that's what I heard on the radio this morning, and it's pretty much going to be revealed at anytime. I'm quite anxious to know.[/quote]
He is going to reveal it in the next 24 hours, so it could be today, or tomorrow morning.
He is going to reveal it in the next 24 hours, so it could be today, or tomorrow morning.
mykevermin
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[quote name='RAMSTORIA']I thought he was going to reveal it today? At least that's what I heard on the radio this morning, and it's pretty much going to be revealed at anytime. I'm quite anxious to know.[/QUOTE]
Guess I've been avoiding the news cycle a bit too much. Heh.
Guess I've been avoiding the news cycle a bit too much. Heh.
drudge reports they are printing obama/bayh stickers.
FLASH: Fri Aug 22 2008 17:52:03 ET /// KMBC's Micheal Mahoney reports a company in Kansas City, which specializes in political literature, has been printing Obama-Bayh material... MORE... Gill Studios, would not confirm information about the material. They would not deny it either. At least three sources close to the plant's operations reported the Obama-Bayh material was being produced...
FLASH: Fri Aug 22 2008 17:52:03 ET /// KMBC's Micheal Mahoney reports a company in Kansas City, which specializes in political literature, has been printing Obama-Bayh material... MORE... Gill Studios, would not confirm information about the material. They would not deny it either. At least three sources close to the plant's operations reported the Obama-Bayh material was being produced...
mykevermin
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Why do people listen to Drudge? His record is so in' spotty.
in' spotty.
mykevermin
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drudge_Report#Errors
The last one is recent.
I'm not saying Drudge isn't right, but that we can't forget the number of times he's ether inaccurate, incomplete, or dead wrong.
Like Bill Kristol. How he manages to be so perpetually dead wrong and remains on the news is beyond me. I don't know that I've ever read/heard him say anything close to reality. Meanwhile, Dan Rather reports on Walker: Texas Ranger's rich boy exclusion from the National Guard during Vietnam, and gets kicked to the curb for being handed a made-up document.
Back on topic, perhaps it is Bayh. But just like I don't read People Magazine, Drudge Report belongs with that grocery-store checkout lane gossipy bullshit, and shouldn't be cited as a reliable source.
The last one is recent.
I'm not saying Drudge isn't right, but that we can't forget the number of times he's ether inaccurate, incomplete, or dead wrong.
Like Bill Kristol. How he manages to be so perpetually dead wrong and remains on the news is beyond me. I don't know that I've ever read/heard him say anything close to reality. Meanwhile, Dan Rather reports on Walker: Texas Ranger's rich boy exclusion from the National Guard during Vietnam, and gets kicked to the curb for being handed a made-up document.
Back on topic, perhaps it is Bayh. But just like I don't read People Magazine, Drudge Report belongs with that grocery-store checkout lane gossipy bullshit, and shouldn't be cited as a reliable source.
A lot of people on TLS are skeptical of the 'leak' due to claiming the sticker looks unprofessional, they think it's just some presumptuous opportunist hoping to get a head start, but I doubt that's true. It looks fine to me and why would somebody take that kind of risk for a head start of only a few hours? I think it's legit
[quote name='mykevermin']http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drudge_Report#Errors
The last one is recent.
I'm not saying Drudge isn't right, but that we can't forget the number of times he's ether inaccurate, incomplete, or dead wrong.
Like Bill Kristol. How he manages to be so perpetually dead wrong and remains on the news is beyond me. I don't know that I've ever read/heard him say anything close to reality. Meanwhile, Dan Rather reports on Walker: Texas Ranger's rich boy exclusion from the National Guard during Vietnam, and gets kicked to the curb for being handed a made-up document.
Back on topic, perhaps it is Bayh. But just like I don't read People Magazine, Drudge Report belongs with that grocery-store checkout lane gossipy bullshit, and shouldn't be cited as a reliable source.[/QUOTE]
thanks for the link, the first 3 were before my drudge reading days. i dont recall the last one. to be fair, its nothing more than a glorified blog.
but yes, on topic, i think bayh would be a great choice for obama. as an undecided voter the vp pick is important to me (even though the vp has little power).
The last one is recent.
I'm not saying Drudge isn't right, but that we can't forget the number of times he's ether inaccurate, incomplete, or dead wrong.
Like Bill Kristol. How he manages to be so perpetually dead wrong and remains on the news is beyond me. I don't know that I've ever read/heard him say anything close to reality. Meanwhile, Dan Rather reports on Walker: Texas Ranger's rich boy exclusion from the National Guard during Vietnam, and gets kicked to the curb for being handed a made-up document.
Back on topic, perhaps it is Bayh. But just like I don't read People Magazine, Drudge Report belongs with that grocery-store checkout lane gossipy bullshit, and shouldn't be cited as a reliable source.[/QUOTE]
thanks for the link, the first 3 were before my drudge reading days. i dont recall the last one. to be fair, its nothing more than a glorified blog.
but yes, on topic, i think bayh would be a great choice for obama. as an undecided voter the vp pick is important to me (even though the vp has little power).
KingBroly
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I'm...confused by this pick. Bayh doesn't seem like a good choice as it goes against the Democratic base. With Bush, he picked a grassroots Republican in Cheney, while Gore and Kerry did the opposite of him, which really didn't bring anything to the ticket. Also, the fact that he didn't even get papers from Clinton is going to rattle a few heads from female Democrats.
Clarification: IF TRUE
Clarification: IF TRUE
[quote name='RAMSTORIA']as an undecided voter the vp pick is important to me (even though the vp has little power).[/QUOTE]
I urge you, an undecided voter, to consider the importance of health care. Veep shouldn't matter when one candidate's plan gives the sick the care they need an another candidate's plan denies them.
If McCain gets his way and we have health care vouchers instead of universal health care, people like my sister will be left uninsured due to preexisting conditions, suffering from Chiari. Our middle class family can hardly afford her medication, much less the required surgery and treatments. There are at least tens of thousands of families like mine in America, struggling to get by, at the mercy of the health care industry...
[/probama noise]
It should be noted that I'm not a huge fan of Obama, it's just that based on healthcare policies alone the choice is really made for me.
I urge you, an undecided voter, to consider the importance of health care. Veep shouldn't matter when one candidate's plan gives the sick the care they need an another candidate's plan denies them.
If McCain gets his way and we have health care vouchers instead of universal health care, people like my sister will be left uninsured due to preexisting conditions, suffering from Chiari. Our middle class family can hardly afford her medication, much less the required surgery and treatments. There are at least tens of thousands of families like mine in America, struggling to get by, at the mercy of the health care industry...
[/probama noise]
It should be noted that I'm not a huge fan of Obama, it's just that based on healthcare policies alone the choice is really made for me.
bread's done