XBLA - Penny Arcade: Precipice of Darkness Episode 1 - 1600pts/ Episode 2 - 1200pts

I always thought Penny Arcade was centered around video games. I played the demo for about 15 minutes (before I got bored from it's horrid pace) and didn't see any VG related jokes. Not really jokes unless pissing robots, and robots fucking oranges tickles your fancy.

So what does this game have in common with PA except for the art style (and main characters)? Microsoft would have to lower the initial price to 800 point before I'd consider this.
 
[quote name='DesertEagleXIX']I always though Penny Arcade was centered around video games. I played the demo for about 15 minutes (before I got bored from it's horrid pace) and didn't see any VG related jokes. Not really jokes unless pissing robots, and robots fucking oranges tickles your fancy.

So what does this game have in common with PA except for the art style (and main characters)? Microsoft would have to lower the initial price to 800 point before I'd consider this.[/quote]
Gabe, Tycho, and their niece are also in the game, but that's mostly it. I don't think the game was ever meant to be a Simpsons-esque game that would be a straight conversion of the comics into a videogame, just a game from the PA creators.

I beat the game last night and I enjoyed it a lot more than I thought I would. I couldn't put it down, so I beat it in one night of marathon gaming. I like the premise that they set-up at the end for what the last three episodes could revolve around. I was trying to go through the game without having anyone die, which lasted until the final boss :whistle2:(, but I'll probably start up another save to try to get the other things I missed.

I'm not sure how I missed the achievement where I have to kill an enemy with the cat, as he got the rare super attack one time and killed both enemies I was facing, but no achievement unlocked.
 
[quote name='FriskyTanuki']I'm not sure how I missed the achievement where I have to kill an enemy with the cat, as he got the rare super attack one time and killed both enemies I was facing, but no achievement unlocked.[/quote]

I think that achievement is for killing with his standard attack.
 
[quote name='RollingSkull']I think that achievement is for killing with his standard attack.[/quote]
That's what I was afraid of. If I get the chance to do that, he's never ready, and vice versa.
 
I picked this up a couple of days ago. I am not a fan of the comic, never really thought it was was funny, but the game is pretty decent. I haven't finished it yet, but if it as short as I suspect it definitely isn't worth 20 bucks. It would be pretty close to a must buy at 10. Now if they want to make a comic based RPG...where's my Sluggy Freelance?
 
I tried the demo, and thought it was ok. The jokes were pretty good but I hated the pacing. The demo was holding my hand the entire time. The gameplay is alright but I've played better games with the same mechanic like Paper Mario, FF4, Baten Kaitos, etc. Those games are cheaper too.
 
Any advice for managing the battle sequences? I'm really bad at it.

The only other RPG I've ever played to any extent was Persona 3 and I was fairly decent at it. There's just too much going on at once here for me to effectively keep up with it. ;)
 
[quote name='thorbahn3']I tried the demo, and thought it was ok. The jokes were pretty good but I hated the pacing. The demo was holding my hand the entire time. The gameplay is alright but I've played better games with the same mechanic like Paper Mario, FF4, Baten Kaitos, etc. Those games are cheaper too.[/QUOTE]

That's a pretty dumb comparison. Of course Super Mario RPG is better! It was made by Square and Nintendo, two of the world's best developers, and had a huge budget. Baten Kaitos, while not in the same league as Super Mario RPG, is still a big-budget game by an established developer. Penny Arcade Adventures, on the other hand, is from a small independent developer.

As for your cost comparison, I'm pretty sure both games you mentioned cost $50 when they came out. This game is $20, but we don't know how much the remaining episodes will cost. Regardless, they basically have to charge more because their potential audience is far smaller.

Also, just a reminder that marketplace cards are on sale for $15 this Sunday at Target. You may also be able to use the $10 off coupon on the cards, depending on how nice your cashier is. So rather than complaining about the $20 price tag, let's all buy it for $15 or $5... :)
 
I think I'll finally get around to trying this demo tomorrow. I want to like it, as it'll gimme a reason to play my 360. But I also DON'T wanna like it because 1600 points is just kinda crazy!
 
I bought the game today and have been having a good time playing through it. I like the fact that the combat is a mixture of turn based and real-time, and not overly complex. I love the look of the game, and seeing a Penny Arcade version of myself is kind of fun.

At 4-5 hours of gameplay (from what I've read), there is definitely an argument to be made that the game is not good value, especially if future episodes continue to be priced at $20. If I were Penny Arcade/Hothead Games, I wouldn't have wanted to have the distinction of being the first to reach that price point on XBLA. They probably felt that their fans wouldn't have a problem with the price tag, but I can't help but believe they've priced themselves out of the market for non-Penny Arcade fans who are interested in RPGs. Perhaps they might have have bought the game if it was only $5 cheaper.

Anyway, I'm happy with the purchase so far, and I'm curious if I will stick with it through the next three episodes.
 
[quote name='GizmoGC']Cheapy is in the game!??[/quote]

You create your own character from scratch, then you are joined at the end of the demo by Gabe and Tycho. You also get help from (3 in this episode) support characters that can be called upon at various times.
 
i'm "mildly" interested in Penny Arcade (although I think Mitch Clem has funnier jokes.. seriously go google his stuff) .. but i can't justify the purchase price.. the demo was alright.. it felt a little buggy at times and felt a little slow to get going.. i liked the mechanics but i didn't like the real time / turn based.. it felt like it wanted to be 2 different games (an action game and an rpg) .. i probably would have spent 1200.. and now finding out there is only about 5 hours .. thats nothing in an RPG (probably a weekend or 2 for me) if it was all 3 episodes this would be a no brainer.. but after playing the demo.. i can't.
 
[quote name='RudyPants']I think he created a character based on his bald-headed persona.[/quote]

Persona?! You mean he's been in kayfabe all throughout the Podcasts? :whistle2:(?
 
[quote name='chasemurata']Persona?! You mean he's been in kayfabe all throughout the Podcasts? :whistle2:(?[/quote]


props for the Kayfabe reference!

from wiki...



Pro wrestling can trace some of its stylistic origins back to carnivals and catch wrestling, where the term "kayfabe" is thought to have originated as carny slang for "protecting the secrets of the business." With money tight, a carny would call home collect, telling the operator their name was "Kay Fabian." This was code letting the people at home know they had made it safely to the next town. The family would then deny the call. This was a method of communicating without paying for the cost of a phone call or telegram.

The term "kayfabe" itself may ultimately originate from the Pig Latin form of "fake" ("ake-fay"), the phrase "be fake", the letters in the first syllables of "character fabrication", or possibly a non-standard Pig Latin form of "fabricate" (or fabrication) in the form of "CA(te)-FAB(ri)" (kayfabe).

The term "kayfabe" has been adopted (and arguably misused by most) by those outside the industry (i.e. fans and some members of the press) with the popularization of, first, insider newsletters, and later, insider information available via the Internet. In modern, popular usage "kayfabe" can refer rather broadly to narrative conventions—like not "breaking character"—which are common in theater. Originally, however, within the wrestling business, maintaining "kayfabe" referred rather narrowly to the socially-enforced demand not to reveal the predetermined nature of wrestling matches and the cooperative aspects of the performances. In practice, this imperative meant that wrestlers, promoters, their families and others close to the business, were socially forbidden from talking frankly about the nature of their work to fans or the press.
 
I enjoyed it. It was a pretty solid game, worth the price, I guess. The battle system is one of the better ones I've seen (attack animations are fantastic), the "useless" dialogue you can have throughout is amazing, and in general it was pretty good. The only complaints I have was the similar gameplay. Every part of it was "hey, kill all the hobos around for their livers. Kill all the mimes for their invisible equipment. Kill all the garbage so the garbageman will give you his kidney." Etc etc. The revisiting the four same areas really got tedious.

Which brings me to my main point. Tycho and gabe are god damn evil geniuses. The way they're releasing this is really, nothing short of evil. Lets start off with money. The game costs $20, for (assumption here) 1/4 of a retail length game. Which would make it $80, if it came out in one piece. You also can't rent this game, due to DD. There's also no used game market sales loss. There's no disc distribution or manufacturing. That's all saving them money. I won't be surprised at all when they release the next episodes, despite using the same engine and battle mechanics, for the same price. Despite obviously less work put into it.

Another main point is the way they're releasing this, in episodes. First, you're paying for an unfinished product. It's an excuse for the game to be sloppy at shit at first. It's an xbox live title. Which means reviewers and the public will generally go much easier on it, because it's not a retail game. If this game came out all at once, they'd not only make less money, but it would get absolutely fucking hammered review score wise. And why isn't it compared to retail games? Because it's episodic? You're paying more than you would for a retail game, and getting considerably less quality. They can release it unpolished, glitchy, ho-hum environments, non-existant dungeons, etc. Because it's an xbox live game. At the end of the day, when you have all four (probably more, I'm sure they'll keep the free money coming) episodes, you'll realize you spent more than you did on a game like GTA4 for something considerably shittier.

And that is my giant rant about how releasing XBL games at retail prices is fucking ridiculous. Yes, it's only ten dollars, but if it costs that extra ten dollars, treat it as such. It's a meh retail game broken into four parts so that you go easier on it.

I'm definitely going to be downloading the rest of it. Screw those greedy bastards.
 
They aren't geniuses for doing episodic games. Trust me, many have attempted to do episodic games on xbla and microsoft won't let them. But I assume because of the license they let Penny Arcade.
 
[quote name='Licorice King']I enjoyed it. It was a pretty solid game, worth the price, I guess. The battle system is one of the better ones I've seen (attack animations are fantastic), the "useless" dialogue you can have throughout is amazing, and in general it was pretty good. The only complaints I have was the similar gameplay. Every part of it was "hey, kill all the hobos around for their livers. Kill all the mimes for their invisible equipment. Kill all the garbage so the garbageman will give you his kidney." Etc etc. The revisiting the four same areas really got tedious.

Which brings me to my main point. Tycho and gabe are god damn evil geniuses. The way they're releasing this is really, nothing short of evil. Lets start off with money. The game costs $20, for (assumption here) 1/4 of a retail length game. Which would make it $80, if it came out in one piece. You also can't rent this game, due to DD. There's also no used game market sales loss. There's no disc distribution or manufacturing. That's all saving them money. I won't be surprised at all when they release the next episodes, despite using the same engine and battle mechanics, for the same price. Despite obviously less work put into it.

Another main point is the way they're releasing this, in episodes. First, you're paying for an unfinished product. It's an excuse for the game to be sloppy at shit at first. It's an xbox live title. Which means reviewers and the public will generally go much easier on it, because it's not a retail game. If this game came out all at once, they'd not only make less money, but it would get absolutely fucking hammered review score wise. And why isn't it compared to retail games? Because it's episodic? You're paying more than you would for a retail game, and getting considerably less quality. They can release it unpolished, glitchy, ho-hum environments, non-existant dungeons, etc. Because it's an xbox live game. At the end of the day, when you have all four (probably more, I'm sure they'll keep the free money coming) episodes, you'll realize you spent more than you did on a game like GTA4 for something considerably shittier.

And that is my giant rant about how releasing XBL games at retail prices is fucking ridiculous. Yes, it's only ten dollars, but if it costs that extra ten dollars, treat it as such. It's a meh retail game broken into four parts so that you go easier on it.

I'm definitely going to be downloading the rest of it. Screw those greedy bastards.[/QUOTE]

So now I am confused, I played through the whole game, and did not run into any glitches or bugs. It never froze or kicked me back to the xbox interface, which is less then I can say for recent retail releases (example: Frontlines : Fuels of War) and even after the whole rant you said you are still going to download it, in an effort to "screw those greedy bastards". So as I said before, I am confused.

The other thing that gets me is the fact that you assume episodic means unfinished and that it means the developer somehow works less. Yes, they will have an engine in place now, but they will most likely iterate on it, much like Valve does with the Source Engine and Epic does with their Unreal engine. Yes, they will also have art assets that they can leverage, but many more will need to be developed, based on the ending scenes in Episode 1. Also remember, manufacturing is a one time cost. Make 100,000 boxes and bam, you are done until your forecasts require you to print more. On the other hand, having to pay for rack space and bandwidth, that is a constant cost for as long as content is on XBL.

Now I will admit, maybe it is just my perspective, based on getting older, but I am fine with shorter games that entertain me. I look at Eternal Sonata and Lost Odyssey and frankly, I don't have the time to put 60 to 80 hours into a game. But, I have played through both episodes of Half-life 2 and enjoyed them thoroughly, as well as watched them get rated very highly. (86% and 90% according to Metacritic) We have also seen attempts at episodic content that failed, due to their lack of polish. (SIN episodes) So the market will regulate itself.

So, in closing, I think both of us, need to take a step back and see what Gabe and Tycho have planned. If quality continues, then in my opinion, it is worth 20 bucks a pop, because each game is a contained experience. It is very much like reading a book series, such as Ender’s Game or Harry Potter. You can read the whole series and see the full story and the character progression or you can pick up book four and just read that. You are not required to buy all of the other books, and you will have an entertaining experience.
 
Great post, Dwhelan.

We also have to remember that this is a small indie developer so just funding the game is probably a big challenge for them. By releasing it episodically, they have a stream of income throughout the entire development process. That's why developers are interested in the episodic structure, not so that they can release unfinished products.
 
Finally played through the trial tonight, and I was chuckling the whole time. Definitely buying this in the future, but I'll wait a bit.

Wanna see if I can pull off a $5 1600 point card at Target first... :D
 
They, the dev, also have to remember the other market, the people that didn't buy their game, and if that ratio is higher than the people who bought your game you'll be sinking fast. It's an episodic game, heck I thought the title was a joke when I heard it at first, so 20 dollars an episode seems way too much. The perk to digital downloads is you cut out most expenses, don't have to pay the retail stores, shipping companies, packaging company, this is basically all M$ and heck the marketing is PA's website so you save some bucks there too. No need for 20 dollar short no replay value games. At least to me it seems obvious. If you liked the game and bought it, that's great but it also lets them know that you're cool with it. I just bought two arcade titles today for less than one $20 title and I'll play both for a long time.
 
[quote name='Spybreak8']They, the dev, also have to remember the other market, the people that didn't buy their game, and if that ratio is higher than the people who bought your game you'll be sinking fast. It's an episodic game, heck I thought the title was a joke when I heard it at first, so 20 dollars an episode seems way too much. The perk to digital downloads is you cut out most expenses, don't have to pay the retail stores, shipping companies, packaging company, this is basically all M$ and heck the marketing is PA's website so you save some bucks there too. No need for 20 dollar short no replay value games. At least to me it seems obvious. If you liked the game and bought it, that's great but it also lets them know that you're cool with it. I just bought two arcade titles today for less than one $20 title and I'll play both for a long time.[/QUOTE]

That's basically how I feel. For $20, there needs to be a reason to keep coming back. I have no problem with spending whatever amount of money for a downloadable game, but as the price increases theres certain things to be expected. For me, I felt that I got the $15 worth out of My Life As a King as that ironically came out about a week before this game (currently the most expensive game on the Wii, downloadable speaking) and I put so many hours into it. I'm actually on my second playthrough now TOO.

If this was $20 for 20+ hours WITH some DLC (reasonably priced) then this would be OK IMO. I just really think the $20 is more of a "Hey, watch these people pay for ANYTHING"
Kind of like how Mr Softee drives his truck really fast just so he can show his buddy "Watch how fast I can make these kids run!!"
 
I don't know about you guys but I feel like I"m getting my 20 dollars out of the game. Its a polished game with a good combat system and good dialog. If your not into dialog I can see you not being into this game at all and I wouldn't reccommend it. But if you like Penny Arcade and like Tychos dialog then you should love this game. Me i see 20 dollars or more of value in the game *shrug*.
 
I really enjoyed it (Episode 2 will be day 1 purchase), and understand the higher price point. It's one of the few XBLA games that feels like a "real" game - story/plot, narration, etc. The 2D art brought into a 3D world looks unique and great. Like I mentioned earlier, it also has an old-school point and click adventure feel to it, and I am a sucker for nostalgia.

For $20, I think there should have been another level to add an extra hour or two... but, hopefully this will change in episode 2 when the size limit is raised. $15 would have been better, but you can tell they put a lot of effort into this game and I have no problem supporting good indie developers.
 
I got a $5 1600 points card but I'm undecided whether to spend it on this or Ikaruga and Rez...suggestions anybody? I might get too frustrated with Ikaruga since I suck at shooters though
 
Ikaruga is annoyingly difficult IMO (but in the other versions you unlock unlimited continues by playing long enough). I'd use the card towards Penny Arcade since its regular price point is kind of high while Ikaruga and Rez are priced more fairly all the time... Then again, you'd get more hours of playtime out of those two games, easily.

But if possible, you should try to get more points cards! Heck, I got 6. Bought Penny Arcade, Poker Smash, Buku Sudoku, some DLC, and still have points to spare.
 
Bought it and played through it in about 8 hours. A little short for the cost, but the humor, dialog, and style (combined with the $15 cards at Target this week!) made it worth the price for me. The art style was clean and simple, and the battle system was engaging and actually strategic.

My only real complaint is with the final boss.
[achievementwhorerant]
One of the achievements, really the only hard one, is to beat the final boss without using any healing items, which is difficult to do the first time when you (1) haven't mastered the timing for blocking its attacks and (2) haven't learned to spam the hell out of your debuff items. This would be fine, but the game autosaves after the end credits, so if you want to fight the boss again, you have to play through the game AGAIN, or know ahead of time to quit during the end credits.
[/rant]

Otherwise, kudos to Hothead and PA for a great little game. Hope the next episode is even better and $5 cheaper!
 
[quote name='crazytalkx']I got a $5 1600 points card but I'm undecided whether to spend it on this or Ikaruga and Rez...suggestions anybody? I might get too frustrated with Ikaruga since I suck at shooters though[/quote]

The key to happiness in Ikaruga is repetition. If you don't have a good memory, get frustrated easily, or are not fond of shmups, you will not enjoy the game. Sidebar, enjoying and appreciating a game can be two different things. My vote goes for Penny Arcade's game. :D
 
I finished Ep 1 the other day. I'd say it took me about 5 hours to complete the thing, not rushing but not taking a ton of time either. When I hit the final boss I was missing I'd estimate 3 fights worth of robot parts to have them all. While it was fun while it lasted $20 is way too much. the later episodes will have to be $10 tops for me to consider them. I may play through a 2nd time to get a few of the achievements and not feel like I justgave away $20 so much.
 
[quote name='FriskyTanuki']Or just quit when somebody dies and load the save file again. Wasn't that hard for me to do it.[/QUOTE]

I can't believe I didn't think of that... :wall:
 
The problem I have is that when it is all said and done, you will have paid 60 bucks for a 15 hour RPG. If they had released this in the stores as a 60 dollar 15 hour RPG game, with last generation graphics, it would have been blasted. By making it downloadable, and splitting it up, people accept the lower graphics, but in the long run will pay just as much as a modern game.


Drop a frog in hot water he jumps out, put him in cold water and slowly heat it up and he burns alive.
 
er, the demo crashed on me when you go to the fruit tree...is that just my shitty 360?

very cool game but I got sick of the narrator in no time flat.
 
[quote name='dastly75']$10-$15 would be more reasonable after playing the demo[/quote]

Agreed. I'd have no problem paying $10 for each episode. Paying $20 for the first episode of a game that I can't trade or sell makes it very hard to justify to the budget. I know there are deals for cards but I'm saving those points for Super Street Fighter II HD and some DLC. Any chance this gets cheaper once the whole series is out?
 
The narrator is supposed to sound like that. He's sort of cliche and fits the theme of the game very well. I don't understand people who like the game but pick on the narrator...
 
[quote name='eastx']The narrator is supposed to sound like that. He's sort of cliche and fits the theme of the game very well. I don't understand people who like the game but pick on the narrator...[/QUOTE]

every single time he talks it goes on for 10 seconds longer than necessary.
 
[quote name='eastx']The narrator is supposed to sound like that. He's sort of cliche and fits the theme of the game very well. I don't understand people who like the game but pick on the narrator...[/quote]

He sounded a little too cliche. I know that's the point of the game but after a minute he gets real irritating. The demo gives us a limited taste but it seems like they turned up the cliche meter on everything. I know PA uses that to appear ironic but it's getting a little old. The battle system is nice but not original. I can say that the graphics are top notch. They stay faithful to the source material and there's no slowdown during the demo.

I guess my biggest problem is paying 1600 points for a game solely because of the PA connection and not for the merits of the game itself. I'm staying away from this because I don't want to encourage MS to charge this much for later DLC like the GTA episodes. If this game bombs at 1600, maybe MS will realize that there's a limit to what people will pay for a download.
 
[quote name='FriskyTanuki']Wasn't Shivering Isles $30, or whatever that is in space points?[/quote]

I didn't buy that either. I also waited until the Gears maps were free. I've managed to not spend a penny on XBLA or DLC so far. I did break down and buy a couple cards during the Target sale. I was gonna get this and SFII but I guess I'll find something else to get with the points.
 
Besides, Shivering Isles is an expansion pack, not a game. It met the precedent of charging PC prices, which is not a deal but is also not unfair.
 
[quote name='FriskyTanuki']Wasn't Shivering Isles $30, or whatever that is in space points?[/quote]

Shivering Isles is awesome and was worth the 30 dollars.

I don't want to equate hours to dollars but Shivering Isles was about 30-40 hours for me and Penny Arcade is supposed to be around six hours.
 
[quote name='Razzuel']Shivering Isles is awesome and was worth the 30 dollars.

I don't want to equate hours to dollars but Shivering Isles was about 30-40 hours for me and Penny Arcade is supposed to be around six hours.[/QUOTE]

you could also choose to buy the disk.........
 
[quote name='paz9x']you could also choose to buy the disk.........[/quote]

You can, and that makes it an even better value than Penny Arcade. Hopefully, they'll release the PA trilogy when it's done. I'd pick it up for $20 in a couple years. Until then, we'll have a 1600 point Episode 1 of PA. There's not even a guarantee to see all the episodes. What happens if you drop 3200 points on the first two episodes but they decide to cancel the series because of lack of interest? Even worse, they could release a third episode that tries to tie up way too much in one title. Then you're stuck with a 4800 point mess that you can't even trade or sell.
 
Shivering Isles is a perfect game to compare Penny Arcade to.

30 bucks, 40 hours of game play, you can download or buy it so you could sell it again after you are done (and it REALLY holds its resale value) Current generation of graphics.

Penny Arcade, 60 bucks, 15 hours of game, no ability to resale, and last generation graphics.

Of course, if you loved Penny Arcade, then it was worth the money.....
 
I know you have to buy Oblivion, but that goes for 20-25 bucks now, or you could buy it and Shivering for 45-55 bucks for 120 hours of game...
 
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