2014 MLB Season Discussion

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Wow. That was such a blatant interference call on Pearce it's amazing the 3B ump didn't see it.

EDIT: And it ends up biting the Yankees back in the worst way.
 
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In the great debate of Wieters or Davis, my money is on Crush:

http://youtu.be/U5EJFn6Dlwg

Doesn't hurt that Caleb Joseph has been fairly decent since getting called up.
 
I love Buck, but his borderline obsession with making Ryan Flarehty an All-Star 2B is getting worrisome.

Bottom of the 9th, men on 1st and 2nd, 1 out. White Sox have a pitcher on the mound that blew the save last night and is on thin ice tonight. Due up is C Caleb Joseph, who is hitting fairly decently and even provided a HR last night.

Instead, you pinch hit with Flarehty, who is a light hitting 2nd baseman who should have been sent down to AAA long ago and he promptly grounds into a double play to end the game. Ugh.
 
Schoop actually has had a lot of ABs, but at the beginning of the year while Machado was out Steve Lombordozzi was the main 2B and was hitting decently. Nothing amazing, but over .100 higher than Flarehty. But when Machado came back Lombo was the one sent down to the minors.

Flarehty has had flashes of excellence and is extremely good defensively, but his hitting is just pretty damn poor overall. It was probably a matchup reason (Buck loves those), but I would have much preferred Caleb Joseph in there.

Then again, I also wanted David Lough to be the everyday LF and Delmon Young gone so...
 
Adrian Beltre having that many hits kind of snuck up on me. I don't think I've ever thought of him as a HOF'er, but he's got a very good shot at finishing with 3000 hits and 400 HRs (he's at 384 now, so maybe 450 or 500 as a longshot). That would put him on a very exclusive list with the likes of Mays, Musial, Yaz, Ripken Jr, Winfield, Murray, and Palmeiro. If he makes it to those levels, I think you have to give him quite a bit of consideration for the Hall.

 
pitfallharry219 said:
Adrian Beltre having that many hits kind of snuck up on me. I don't think I've ever thought of him as a HOF'er, but he's got a very good shot at finishing with 3000 hits and 400 HRs (he's at 384 now, so maybe 450 or 500 as a longshot). That would put him on a very exclusive list with the likes of Mays, Musial, Yaz, Ripken Jr, Winfield, Murray, and Palmeiro. If he makes it to those levels, I think you have to give him quite a bit of consideration for the Hall.
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I think Safeco really affected him more than it would have for other hitters. Once he got out, he showed the kind of game he had back when he was with the Dodgers. If you add in his defense, I think he would have a good shot at the hall. He was one of the better defensive 3B in his prime.

 
pitfallharry219 said:
Adrian Beltre having that many hits kind of snuck up on me. I don't think I've ever thought of him as a HOF'er, but he's got a very good shot at finishing with 3000 hits and 400 HRs (he's at 384 now, so maybe 450 or 500 as a longshot). That would put him on a very exclusive list with the likes of Mays, Musial, Yaz, Ripken Jr, Winfield, Murray, and Palmeiro. If he makes it to those levels, I think you have to give him quite a bit of consideration for the Hall.
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wow you're right, those numbers are pretty good.

Its too bad the Hall has become such a joke now.

 
He's career hasn't seemed noteworthy but I guess the numbers slowly add up and he has been a bit underrated so far. Before this discussion the thing that I most remembered Adrian Beltre for was getting hit with a line drive while not wearing a cup. That was painful to even read about.

 
I've never liked the "automatic numbers." Just about everyone who gets to those heights ultimately does deserve to be in the Hall of Fame, but they shouldn't get there JUST because of those numbers. You have to examine the career and decide if the guy was ever one of the most dominant players in the game for an extend period of time. This is why I don't think Biggio belongs, either.

Beltre has only 3 Top 10 finishes in the MVP race and 3 All-Star game appearances. And fair or not, his greatest season (2004) will always have a cloud over it, due to the steroid era.

I think Beltre is very similar to Rafael Palmeiro. Even before he was caught cheating, there was serious debate on whether or not Palmeiro belonged in the Hall, and he was well on his way to both 3000 hits and 500 homeruns.

 
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bigdaddybruce44 said:
I've never liked the "automatic numbers." Just about everyone who gets to those heights ultimately does deserve to be in the Hall of Fame, but they shouldn't get there JUST because of those numbers. You have to examine the career and decide if the guy was ever one of the most dominant players in the game for an extend period of time. This is why I don't think Biggio belongs, either.

Beltre has only 3 Top 10 finishes in the MVP race and 3 All-Star game appearances. And fair or not, his greatest season (2004) will always have a cloud over it, due to the steroid era.

I think Beltre is very similar to Rafael Palmeiro. Even before he was caught cheating, there was serious debate on whether or not Palmeiro belonged in the Hall, and he was well on his way to both 3000 hits and 500 homeruns.
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Good comparison between Beltre and Palmerio. Until he got caught for cheating, I never understood all the hate towards Palmeiro. I thought he was a very good power hitter and a slick fielding first basement. Sure he was never dominant, heck most of the time he wasn't even the best player on his team, but he was consistent and over his career he compiled some impressive stats. Both of them compare pretty favorably to Eddie Murray.

I find it kind of interesting that when one examines baseball stats closely they realize that stats "lie". For example Palmerio's career numbers are better than Frank Robinson's. Yet no one in their right mind would say that Palmerio was a better player than Robinson.

 
A lot has to do with the era the player belongs to. You look at Jim Rice's career numbers, and they are good, but they don't blow you away. But anyone who watched baseball in that era will tell you that Rice was, without a shadow of a doubt, one of the most feared sluggers of the time.

 
bigdaddybruce44 said:
A lot has to do with the era the player belongs to. You look at Jim Rice's career numbers, and they are good, but they don't blow you away. But anyone who watched baseball in that era will tell you that Rice was, without a shadow of a doubt, one of the most feared sluggers of the time.
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Agreed comparing players from different eras is pretty trivial, though fun to do. However, Frank Thomas, a contemporary of Palmeiro, put up "similar" numbers to him and IMO The Big Hurt was leagues better than Palmeiro. I think this comparison reinforces the idea that stats do not tell the whole story. Then again, we are "technically" comparing two HOF (worthy in Palmeiro's case) players. Maybe we should be comparing them to other AS caliber players in the league who did not make it to the HOF. I think that will better illustrate their greatness. One also has to remember that there have only been 28 players in the history of baseball who have over 3,000 hits and only 26 players who have over 500HRs. So we are talking about a very selective group of excellent players. Thus, maybe for the time being these "automatic numbers" still work because so few players have reached these milestones but baseball has to worry about compilers.

P.S. You are right about Rice.

 
I think Fred McGriff is a great example of why the automatic numbers are silly. Was McGriff a really good player? Yep. Was he a dominate player? No. Is he a Hall of Famer? Well, the closest he has gotten so far was 2012, when he received 23.9% of the vote. And this is a guy who was very likeable (everyone remembers the Tom Emanski commercials) and was never really wrapped up in steroid speculation. Would 7 more homeruns magically make him a Hall of Famer?

 
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bigdaddybruce44 said:
I think Fred McGriff is a great example of why the automatic numbers are silly. Was McGriff a really good player? Yep. Was he a dominate player? No. Is he a Hall of Famer? Well, the closest he has gotten so far was 2012, when he received 23.9% of the vote. And this is a guy who was very likeable (everyone remembers the Tom Emanski commercials) and was never really wrapped up in steroid speculation. Would 7 more homeruns magically make him a Hall of Famer?
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You are right about McGriff. He was never dominant. Donny Baseball and Murray were better players than him in the 80s, Thomas and Bagwell were better than him in the 90s. Personally, I would like to see him make to the HOF if only to show up all the steroid users but IMO he was not one of the great ones.

 
John Flaherty actually told an interesting story during a recent Yankee broadcast about the Crime Dog. McGriff was trying to make the '04 Devil Rays, and they were playing the Yankees in spring training. Flaherty called for a breaking ball, and after McGriff swung and missed, and he said something along the lines, "I am trying to make this team and get 500 homeruns." Too bad he wasn't able to eek out a little more performance that year. So close...

 
On a slight tangent, what do you think of Bagwell's chances? He has been getting closer to that 75% threshold.

 
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Bagwell dipped back down a little this year (54.3%, down from 59.6% in 2013). If nothing definitive ever comes out that links him to steroid usage, I think he does have a shot, though. Only 4 All-Star appearances, but an MVP award, as well as 5 other top 10 finishes and a ROY award. His career slugging and OPS are pretty impressive, too.

On a related note, I know I bring up All-Star games a lot. I realize they are often popularity contests, but I think they are still a tool you can use in conjunction with other stats and awards.

 
Anybody here ever been to Safeco? I'm thinking of going to a game there and wondering if there is anything to do in the surrounding area.

 
I just read on ESPN that Johnny Damon wants to make a comeback since he can outhit half the league. Am I the only one who feels he was a bit overrated even in his prime?

 
Cubs get SS Addison Russell .. holy crap. Something tells me Castro is getting shopped to a contender. Detroit, maybe?

 
DNukem170 said:
So, apparently the A's just got both Samardjiza AND Hammel.

For some reason, that pisses me off.
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hammel is going to do poorly in the American league like the last time with the orioles. not sure how samardjiza will translate into the American league.

 
YBX87 said:
hammel is going to do poorly in the American league like the last time with the orioles. not sure how samardjiza will translate into the American league.
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O.co is a great park for pitching, and the A's OF defense is solid. They'll both be fine. Hammel was excellent in Baltimore in 2012, for what it's worth.

 
As an A's fan, should I be happy about this? I liked watching Russell in the minors, and I actually thought our pitching was already pretty solid. I wonder if someone's getting flipped for some 2B help.
 
pacifickarma said:
As an A's fan, should I be happy about this? I liked watching Russell in the minors, and I actually thought our pitching was already pretty solid. I wonder if someone's getting flipped for some 2B help.
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Yeah, Samardzija is solid, occasionally awesome, and Hammel is okay, and occasionally really good. Russell looks pretty good, but he's at least a year away, more likely two or even three years away. The A's have a shot at winning the world series this year, and Samardzija and Hammel increase those chances.

About Damon:

During his peak (1999-2009), he was an above average hitter, elite baserunner, and had good range in the OF. Injuries to his arm reduced his throwing to a joke by the middle of the 2000s, but his range was still there. I'm not really sure people rate him as being any better than a pretty good, occasional all-star player.

 
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It's also worth nothing that the A's will have Samardzija through next season, so not only could he help the A's on their WS quest, Beane and the front office could also turn him into prospects at next year's deadline if need be.

 
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The Twins will install self-serve beer stations for the All-Star Game.

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There's absolutely no way this could wrong, right?
 
I LOL'ed at the the story about all the reporters going nuts because Joey Votto cleaned his locker. It started with them reporting that he might've been traded, and it snowballed into several reporting that the Reds traded him for David Price.

 
pitfallharry219 said:
I LOL'ed at the the story about all the reporters going nuts because Joey Votto cleaned his locker. It started with them reporting that he might've been traded, and it snowballed into several reporting that the Reds traded him for David Price.
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If Joey Votto ever gets traded for anything I would be pretty happy actually. He is a great OBP guy, but he doesn't have nearly enough power at 1B to justify his contract. I understand sometimes giving a franchise player a contract that is an albatross in their twilight years, but I don't think that Votto is that guy.

 
Reds303 said:
If Joey Votto ever gets traded for anything I would be pretty happy actually. He is a great OBP guy, but he doesn't have nearly enough power at 1B to justify his contract. I understand sometimes giving a franchise player a contract that is an albatross in their twilight years, but I don't think that Votto is that guy.
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But did you think he was that guy when he received it? I was unsure about Ryan Howard's contract at the time, but now it's one of, if not the biggest fuckup in Phillies history.

 
ESPN just had an article yesterday saying the Yankees can't afford to have Tanaka struggling, and now he's on the DL.
 
DNukem170 said:
ESPN just had an article yesterday saying the Yankees can't afford to have Tanaka struggling, and now he's on the DL.
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I don't think anyone minds the Yankees struggling.

Nationals are in sole possession of first place. They're coming on strong as of late.

 
Figures that on the day I get a hold of some Orioles fan-made songs they get beat. Was actually going to go to the game to get the Nick Markakis shirt. Glad I decided not to go.
 
tcrash247 said:
But did you think he was that guy when he received it? I was unsure about Ryan Howard's contract at the time, but now it's one of, if not the biggest fuckup in Phillies history.
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At the time I thought he was. He was coming off a monster year and was entering his prime, but it seems as if his power never really returned after the knee injury he suffered the year he received that. Still though, unless a team has Yankees or Red Sox type of money they should never really tie up that much to a player anyways. I'd prefer 3-4 above average players than 1 superstar.

 
bigdaddybruce44 said:
Red Sox throw A.J. Pierzynski under the bus, get into the bus, and then proceed to run over their former catcher multiple times.
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Anyone who goes to Boston should know that this is going to happen to them. Doesn't matter what you do, they always make sure to kick the shit out of you when you leave town.

 
Tanaka tore his UCL. Going to try rehab before he decides on TJ.

Greinkes is torn so maybe he can pitch with it. Chances are probably slim though.
 
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