2005 NBA Play-off Predictions and discussion

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[quote name='MorbidAngel4Life']
I agree with ZL. noone on the Heat did, so don't bitch about injuries. The "Meat" couldn't beat us on our worst day.[/QUOTE]

OK, that's just a naive statement. Or a fanboy statement. One or the other. Perhaps it was just rhetoric though and you weren't really serious. While I am not going to make the excuse, it is a fact that the Heat were banged up and they still managed to beat the Pistons 3 times and had a chance to win the series.

As far as this next series goes, there are some interesting matchups in my opinion. Both are defensive minded teams, but the Spurs can beat you with offense moreso than the Pistons can. The matchups, at least in the starting five though seem to favor the Pistons. Here is how I see them.

Bowen vs. Hamilton - Bowen will have a hard time chasing around Hamilton. He can certainly do it, but even if he does, Bowen will not hold him to under 10 consistently and that is what you'll get from Bowen (if that) without much work on Hamiltons part. Matchup favors Pistons.

Parker vs. Billups - Billups is a solid defender but will not be able to keep up with Parker. He will need a lot of help, especially off of screens. On the other side though, Parker cannot defend Billups. Billups will be able to drive on him despite his speed simply because he will be able to muscle up shots that Parker won't be able to defend. Billups can also post up Parker with ease. Unless Parker can get alot of people involved with his drives, I think Billups has the overall advantage.

Ginobli vs. Prince. I don't think Prince's length will help him here, but he is still a good defender. Ginobli is reckless though and will likely give him problems and maybe get him in early foul trouble if he is aggressive. Prince should be able to post Ginobli up though on the the end, but Ginobli will have help. Overall, I say the Spurs have the advantage here.

Duncan vs. R. Wallace. While Wallace will do well, Duncan will get his points and boards. Unles Wallace can match Duncans output for the series, this matchup clearly favors the Spurs. I can see putting Big Ben on Duncan, but I would rather free him up for help D and rebounds.

B. Wallace vs. Spurs centers. This is an obvious no brainer. Rasho and Nazr have potential to be respectable centers, but neither is going to be able to do much against Wallace. If active though Nazr can get some garbage points and help to offset whatever Wallce gives the Pistons. If Rash is in there though Wallace should feed on O-boards, which would not be good for the Spurs. I don't expect Rasho to play much unless the other Spurs bigs are in foul trouble. When Duncan moves to center, this is a different story though although Wallce is stronger than Duncan. Overall matchup advantage to the Pistons.

The bench. While not a dominant bunch, the Spurs clearly have the better bench in my opinion and this could be what puts them over the top. If the Spurs bench can dominate the Pistons bench and/or give enough quality minutes to wear down the Pistons starters, the Spurs will win the series. Whether or not they do that remains to be seen.

I honestly don't have a clear winner in mind for this series but my gut tells me the Spurs will take it. Likely in 7. Home court advantage might play a big role as the Spurs were the best team in the NBA at home and the Pistons were not great on the road.

Sorry for the long post....but it's been a while since I posted in this thread so I had to make up for it. ;)
 
[quote name='chickenhawk']OK, that's just a naive statement. Or a fanboy statement. One or the other. Perhaps it was just rhetoric though and you weren't really serious. While I am not going to make the excuse, it is a fact that the Heat were banged up and they still managed to beat the Pistons 3 times and had a chance to win the series.

As far as this next series goes, there are some interesting matchups in my opinion. Both are defensive minded teams, but the Spurs can beat you with offense moreso than the Pistons can. The matchups, at least in the starting five though seem to favor the Pistons. Here is how I see them.

Bowen vs. Hamilton - Bowen will have a hard time chasing around Hamilton. He can certainly do it, but even if he does, Bowen will not hold him to under 10 consistently and that is what you'll get from Bowen (if that) without much work on Hamiltons part. Matchup favors Pistons.

Parker vs. Billups - Billups is a solid defender but will not be able to keep up with Parker. He will need a lot of help, especially off of screens. On the other side though, Parker cannot defend Billups. Billups will be able to drive on him despite his speed simply because he will be able to muscle up shots that Parker won't be able to defend. Billups can also post up Parker with ease. Unless Parker can get alot of people involved with his drives, I think Billups has the overall advantage.

Ginobli vs. Prince. I don't think Prince's length will help him here, but he is still a good defender. Ginobli is reckless though and will likely give him problems and maybe get him in early foul trouble if he is aggressive. Prince should be able to post Ginobli up though on the the end, but Ginobli will have help. Overall, I say the Spurs have the advantage here.

Duncan vs. R. Wallace. While Wallace will do well, Duncan will get his points and boards. Unles Wallace can match Duncans output for the series, this matchup clearly favors the Spurs. I can see putting Big Ben on Duncan, but I would rather free him up for help D and rebounds.

B. Wallace vs. Spurs centers. This is an obvious no brainer. Rasho and Nazr have potential to be respectable centers, but neither is going to be able to do much against Wallace. If active though Nazr can get some garbage points and help to offset whatever Wallce gives the Pistons. If Rash is in there though Wallace should feed on O-boards, which would not be good for the Spurs. I don't expect Rasho to play much unless the other Spurs bigs are in foul trouble. When Duncan moves to center, this is a different story though although Wallce is stronger than Duncan. Overall matchup advantage to the Pistons.

The bench. While not a dominant bunch, the Spurs clearly have the better bench in my opinion and this could be what puts them over the top. If the Spurs bench can dominate the Pistons bench and/or give enough quality minutes to wear down the Pistons starters, the Spurs will win the series. Whether or not they do that remains to be seen.

I honestly don't have a clear winner in mind for this series but my gut tells me the Spurs will take it. Likely in 7. Home court advantage might play a big role as the Spurs were the best team in the NBA at home and the Pistons were not great on the road.

Sorry for the long post....but it's been a while since I posted in this thread so I had to make up for it. ;)[/QUOTE]

I was just agreeing with a fellow Michigander AND Piston fan. Is that a crime?
 
Apparently it is in this thread... :roll:

I agreed with almost everything said until the "Pistons aren't a great road team" thing... They did win Game 7 in Miami afterall... and that's only happened 3 other times this late in the play-offs. The Pistons also posted the 2nd best road record in the east behind only the Heat. I suppose they're not on par with the 97 Bulls on the road, but it's not like they're bad either. The will win a game in San Antonio, for Christ sake the Suns were able to win a game in San Antonio, as were the Nuggets, and those teams certainly are no better than Detroit. I expect a 3-2 Piston lead headed back to San Antonio for game 6.
 
[quote name='Zenithian Legend']Apparently it is in this thread... :roll:

I agreed with almost everything said until the "Pistons aren't a great road team" thing... They did win Game 7 in Miami afterall... and that's only happened 3 other times this late in the play-offs. The Pistons also posted the 2nd best road record in the east behind only the Heat. I suppose they're not on par with the 97 Bulls on the road, but it's not like they're bad either. The will win a game in San Antonio, for Christ sake the Suns were able to win a game in San Antonio, as were the Nuggets, and those teams certainly are no better than Detroit. I expect a 3-2 Piston lead headed back to San Antonio for game 6.[/QUOTE]

Sorry if I offended anyone with the "naive comment" comment. I was half joking. No need to jump all over me. I guess in this thread you can't point out a misguided or "homer" statement either. :roll: right back at ya!

As far as the Pistons road record this year, only 2...count them....2 teams posted an above .500 road record in the East. So the fact that the Pistons were the second best team in the East on the road doesn't say much to me. What was their record? 22-19. While they did win game 7 at Miami, that is not the record of a great road team in my opinion. Notice I did not say they are a bad road team, just not a great road team. They may very well win a game in SA, I am not saying they won't. I simply said that home court might make the difference in the series. The Spurs are certainly no better a road team than the Pistons but they are perfectly capable of beating the Pistons in Detroit. After all, the Pacers won on the Pistons court in the playoffs. And for the record, Pheonix was the best road team in the NBA this year so them winning in SA isn't all that shocking.
 
They had no answer for Manu Ginobili. McDyess and both Wallaces sucked for the Pistons. Someone on ESPN wrote that Manu Ginobili is now the best European player in the league. I don't know about that, but he's certainly one of the few that don't disappear in the playoffs.


What do you guys think about the rumor about Pierce for the 3rd pick in the draft from Portland? The Celtics would take Van Exel to even out the salaries, decline his option for next year and get cap room immediately. I hope they do this deal. Get rid of Pierce, Walker, and Payton, draft either Chris Paul or Marvin Williams at 3, probably get another lottery pick next year, a year of experience for the young players, and a lot of cap room. The Celtics will only ever be a 45 win , 1st or 2nd round team with Paul Pierce.
 
[quote name='dafoomie']They had no answer for Manu Ginobili. McDyess and both Wallaces sucked for the Pistons. Someone on ESPN wrote that Manu Ginobili is now the best European player in the league. I don't know about that, but he's certainly one of the few that don't disappear in the playoffs.


What do you guys think about the rumor about Pierce for the 3rd pick in the draft from Portland? The Celtics would take Van Exel to even out the salaries, decline his option for next year and get cap room immediately. I hope they do this deal. Get rid of Pierce, Walker, and Payton, draft either Chris Paul or Marvin Williams at 3, probably get another lottery pick next year, a year of experience for the young players, and a lot of cap room. The Celtics will only ever be a 45 win , 1st or 2nd round team with Paul Pierce.[/QUOTE]

I would not say he was the best player still though. He does not have to carry a team, kind of like how people were saying Duncan was the best PF ever and the PTI and the ESPN Basketball guys did as well since he really has not carried a team for long enough. Dirk may have not been as good as he has been in previous series, but he is still playing in an unfamiliar offense and in a role he is not completely used to. Not allowing him to be a run a gun player takes him out of his game a little, and he needs a little while to completely adjust.

and getting rid of Pierce seems like a pretty good thing, because I know Danny would be smart and skip over Chris Paul because he would fail the personality test for being a fucking douche asshole. Cock knocking a guy is about the lowest thing you can do
 
How you start a game up 17-4 and then later go on a 10-0 run like it's nothing yet not play the rest of the game is beyond me :roll:

You'd think being that it's the FINALS now Detroit would play EVERY game, but apparently you'd think wrong. The only major admustment Detroit needs to make for game 2 is their attitude.

Oh and Ginobli... wow, some of those shots he hit, simply amazing.
 
OH :lol: in my excitement I missed the Paul Pierce thing, I did see that on espn.com though. My take is the same as yours: plain and simple Pierce is not a winner. He's never going to be "the-man" he's like Stephon Marbury; they'll get your 45 wins, a play-off series, and that's it. He's never going to be as good as Iverson and take you all the way to the finals with nothing but role players around him. The Celtics would be wise to revamp indeed and part with Pierce, Walker, and Davis. Payton shouldn't be a major concern since he should retire soon anyway. He could actually really help a guy like Chris Paul develop.

Actually if the Celtics really want to improve ownership needs to get rid of Danny Ainge.
 
[quote name='CaseyRyback']I would not say he was the best player still though. He does not have to carry a team, kind of like how people were saying Duncan was the best PF ever and the PTI and the ESPN Basketball guys did as well since he really has not carried a team for long enough. Dirk may have not been as good as he has been in previous series, but he is still playing in an unfamiliar offense and in a role he is not completely used to. Not allowing him to be a run a gun player takes him out of his game a little, and he needs a little while to completely adjust.

and getting rid of Pierce seems like a pretty good thing, because I know Danny would be smart and skip over Chris Paul because he would fail the personality test for being a fucking douche asshole. Cock knocking a guy is about the lowest thing you can do[/QUOTE]
The top 3 players are pretty much set... Bogut, Williams, and Paul. With the 3rd pick, you just take whoever falls to you. Not a bad position to be in. They're calling Paul the best PG prospect since Kidd, he's already close to Kidd's douchebag status.

And that is the difference with Ginobili, he's a complimentary player, whereas Dirk is the man in Dallas.
 
[quote name='topplehat']Spurs have this one in the bag, did you see how they came back from a 13 point loss? There is nothing that can stop those guys.[/QUOTE]

I don't think I'd go that far. Where the hell was Wallace though? He got outplayed by Nazr, despite playing 13 more minutes! WTF!?!?!! 7 rebounds Ben? 7? That is all they ask you to do....get rebounds and play defense. The Spurs manhandled the Pistons on the boards. I am not sure if either Wallace knew this was a Finals game. :?
 
[quote name='dafoomie']The top 3 players are pretty much set... Bogut, Williams, and Paul. With the 3rd pick, you just take whoever falls to you. Not a bad position to be in. They're calling Paul the best PG prospect since Kidd, he's already close to Kidd's douchebag status.

And that is the difference with Ginobili, he's a complimentary player, whereas Dirk is the man in Dallas.[/QUOTE]

What's wrong with Kidd's personality? He seems like a nice guy on and off the court. Or is it because you're a Boston fan?:lol:
 
[quote name='chickenhawk']I don't think I'd go that far. Where the hell was Wallace though? He got outplayed by Nazr, despite playing 13 more minutes! WTF!?!?!! 7 rebounds Ben? 7? That is all they ask you to do....get rebounds and play defense. The Spurs manhandled the Pistons on the boards. I am not sure if either Wallace knew this was a Finals game. :?[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure any of the Pistons knew it was a Finals game. That's the problem. I'm a Michigander and thus have an obligatory love for the Pistons, but goddamn they're an inconsistent team. Even in the span of one game. How do you go from 17-4 to 17-20 in that short an amount of time? You stop trying, that's how. The Spurs are consistently excellent, and that's why I think they're going to win the series (as much as I'd like to see otherwise).
 
[quote name='Abdullah2']why does everyone hate the spurs?[/QUOTE]

I have no clue, unless it is because they are boring. I personally do not find them boring, and never have, but I guess to some people they are. They usually seem to put up exciting series' when they play.

Then again I am someone who hates the Pistons. After the malice in the palace, I can't stand to see them win and go onto success. Can't wait until next season when Indiana puts it on them.
 
[quote name='Mistik']What's wrong with Kidd's personality? He seems like a nice guy on and off the court. Or is it because you're a Boston fan?:lol:[/QUOTE]
He beats his wife.

[quote name='Zenithian Legend']OH in my excitement I missed the Paul Pierce thing, I did see that on espn.com though. My take is the same as yours: plain and simple Pierce is not a winner. He's never going to be "the-man" he's like Stephon Marbury; they'll get your 45 wins, a play-off series, and that's it. He's never going to be as good as Iverson and take you all the way to the finals with nothing but role players around him. The Celtics would be wise to revamp indeed and part with Pierce, Walker, and Davis. Payton shouldn't be a major concern since he should retire soon anyway. He could actually really help a guy like Chris Paul develop.[/QUOTE]
I agree about Pierce, though I wouldn't go as far as to put him in the same loser class as Marbury. He's not really a winner, and he's not a smart player either. The one thing missing from his game is what people call "Basketball IQ".

I actually think Danny Ainge has done a great job so far, after Pitino destroyed the franchise, and Chris Wallace wasted a ton of draft picks (could have had Amare, Richard Jefferson, Tony Parker). We got Kedrick Brown, Joe Forte, and Joe Johnson (who he gave away for nothing).

Ainge has done a good job of drafting at least, we have a bunch of younger players with potential. I hope he trades Pierce for that pick, only way they can go from a 45 win team to a great team is to blow it up.
 
Yes sir, Boston is in one of those very awkward positions in the NBA. They could easily keep this team together and continue to be successful every year, but never make it to the finals. Actually, with their current team they'd never even be thought of as a contender... at least teams like Sacramento and Portland had that at one point. Anyway, they'd still win more games than they lost every year. OR Ainge can start shipping off stars and rebuilding from scratch. Moving away Pierce and letting Walker go would open a ton of cap space, and Ainge could start a serious rebuilding movement.

As for the list of players they "could" have had, I don't really hold Ainge responsible for not drafting guys like Tony Parker and Amare. Who could've known how good (Amare in particular) they would be? I do, however, think trading off Joe Johnson was an absolute bone-headed thing to do. You can't blame Ainge for the picks though, hell in theory the Warriors could've drafted Tracy McGrady and Kobe Bryant, instead they took Todd Fuller and Adonal Foyle... oops. Boston, Vancouver and New Jersey could have taken the pair as well (in theory) but Golden State amuses me the most since their picks were immediately before McGrady and two spots in front of Bryant. Since, I'm sure you're curious, Boston took Mercer and Walker, as Pitino attempted to draft his whole frickin Kentucky team, as well as, future NBA Finals MVP: Chauncey Billups.

Which brings me to my next point...

things aren't looking good right now
 
his Kentucky team was awesome and both the players he got were pretty good players. His major problem was that his defensive schemes would not work in the pros and that he did not get to draft the one person he really wanted (Dirk)
 
Oh, I'm not knocking that Wildcats team, they were tough, but even the best College team isn't going to beat the worst NBA team. Yet for some reason, it seemed as though Pitino assumed he could just bring the whole Kentucky team up to the NBA together and as they got older and more experienced they'd be good enough to dominate in the NBA too. It was definitely interesting, and after they added Paul Pierce to the equation they got pretty good for awhile, but by that time Pitino was gone.
 
[quote name='Zenithian Legend']Yes sir, Boston is in one of those very awkward positions in the NBA. They could easily keep this team together and continue to be successful every year, but never make it to the finals. Actually, with their current team they'd never even be thought of as a contender... at least teams like Sacramento and Portland had that at one point. Anyway, they'd still win more games than they lost every year. OR Ainge can start shipping off stars and rebuilding from scratch. Moving away Pierce and letting Walker go would open a ton of cap space, and Ainge could start a serious rebuilding movement.

As for the list of players they "could" have had, I don't really hold Ainge responsible for not drafting guys like Tony Parker and Amare. Who could've known how good (Amare in particular) they would be? I do, however, think trading off Joe Johnson was an absolute bone-headed thing to do. You can't blame Ainge for the picks though, hell in theory the Warriors could've drafted Tracy McGrady and Kobe Bryant, instead they took Todd Fuller and Adonal Foyle... oops. Boston, Vancouver and New Jersey could have taken the pair as well (in theory) but Golden State amuses me the most since their picks were immediately before McGrady and two spots in front of Bryant. Since, I'm sure you're curious, Boston took Mercer and Walker, as Pitino attempted to draft his whole frickin Kentucky team, as well as, future NBA Finals MVP: Chauncey Billups.

Which brings me to my next point...

things aren't looking good right now[/QUOTE]
Ainge has drafted pretty well since he took over, the bad drafts were the guy before him. He took Marcus Banks, Kendrick Perkins, Delonte West, Al Jefferson, and Tony Allen, those were all good choices for the picks they had. My point about the bad drafts was about the Celtics reaching for a player (Forte) when they needed a PG, and when the obvious picks were available (Parker and Tinsley). And for opting to take Phoenix's non-lottery protected pick a year early, when they were obviously going to be a lottery team.

You're right though, mediocrity is the worst position to be in. If you suck, at least you can get lottery picks.

Rick Pitino single handedly destroyed the Boston Celtics.
 
[quote name='dafoomie']Ainge has drafted pretty well since he took over, the bad drafts were the guy before him. He took Marcus Banks, Kendrick Perkins, Delonte West, Al Jefferson, and Tony Allen, those were all good choices for the picks they had. My point about the bad drafts was about the Celtics reaching for a player (Forte) when they needed a PG, and when the obvious picks were available (Parker and Tinsley). And for opting to take Phoenix's non-lottery protected pick a year early, when they were obviously going to be a lottery team.

You're right though, mediocrity is the worst position to be in. If you suck, at least you can get lottery picks.

Rick Pitino single handedly destroyed the Boston Celtics.[/QUOTE]

Len Bias destroyed that team long before Pitino got there, and even when Pitino arrived, that team was a horrible team already. I can't see how he made it worse, since he did draft some good players.
 
Well, I dunno if I'd go that far. The Celtics were already in rough shape when Pitino got there. I'd say some serious misfortune is what ended the Celtic's glory days. I can go through a whole list of "what ifs" and "hads and had nots", but really it boils down to two terrible, unforseeable events that really brought and end to the Celtics, both prior to Pitino.

The first would be back in 1986, when Len Bias OD'd after being drafted by Boston. Larry Bird himself said that had Bias played it would've undoubtedly prolonged Bird's career. Plus with a player like Len Bias on the Celtics they certainly could've remained at the top of the East when Jordan and the Bulls really took off. Who knows, they may have beaten the Bad Boys too, but I don't like to think about that.

The second occurred almost a decade later, and that would be when Reggie Lewis' heart gave out. That was one of the saddest things, watching Lewis collapse on the court, was just horrible. Of course, when that happened, I figured that he'd be alright in the end, but sadly that isn't the way things turned out. Lewis was their best player at the time, and he probably could've kept the team competitive. Instead they sank even lower, and had the worst season in their history, and of course hired Pitino.

That was undoubtedly a terrible stroke of luck for the Celtics. Of course you can look at it both ways, as Auerbach made some of the most brilliant manuevers in NBA history, drafting Larry Bird a year prior to him completing college, and trading away Bob McAdoo (IIRC) to get a few draft choices, which turned out to be Robert Parish and Kevin McHale.

I wonder what Auerbach makes of the current state of the franchise... I believe he's still a Celtic's advisor, but I'm sure it's Ainge pulling all the strings.
 
[quote name='CaseyRyback']Len Bias destroyed that team long before Pitino got there, and even when Pitino arrived, that team was a horrible team already. I can't see how he made it worse, since he did draft some good players.[/QUOTE]

:lol: See, Casey knows too.
 
[quote name='CaseyRyback']Len Bias destroyed that team long before Pitino got there, and even when Pitino arrived, that team was a horrible team already. I can't see how he made it worse, since he did draft some good players.[/QUOTE]
I didn't want to get into how he ruined the team, but I'll go over it, step by step.

He started his reign of terror by renouncing 9 players, including David Wesley (their best player) and Rick Fox (the team captain), in order to sign Travis Knight to a 7 year contract. He drafts Billups and Ron Mercer (instead of T-Mac), and trades Billups after 50 games for Kenny Anderson. He traded the 8th pick in the draft (Andre Miller) and Andrew Declerq for Vitaly Potapenko. He traded Ron Mercer (he was good for a few years) for Danny Fortson. He gave huge contracts to Chris Mills, Vitalky Potapenko, Walter McCarty, just about anyone he could. He made 102 player transactions in his 4 years, more than twice what anyone else did in that time. Pitino either drafted poorly or gave up too early on his young players, traded them for stiffs, signed them to huge contracts, and caused major salary cap problems.

Rick Pitino never fully had an understanding of how the salary cap worked. He is widely regarded as the worst GM in NBA history. He wasn't a good NBA coach either, his schemes were garbage.


I tried to find a list of every single move Pitino made, but I couldn't. If anyone sees one, let me know.
 
Oh, I don't think anyone is arguing that Pitino did a shit job in Boston, but that team was already dead upon Pitino's arrival. It'd be like if he went to the Clippers and they continued to suck. There were indeed plenty of chances for Pitino to make the team better, a T-Mac, Billups backcourt would've been exciting, but obviously it didn't work out like that. I suppose you could go and say that he managed to make an already struggling team even worse than it already was when he got there. Funny how immediately after Pitino left Boston started to win games again. Some guys just aren't meant to coach in the pros.
 
[quote name='Scrubking']The Pistons better get on their knees and cry tears of thanks and say many prayers that the Heat had 4 out of 5 starters badly injured. BADLY!

If the Heat are healthy the Bitchstons go down in 5 easy. Injuries won this series for the Pistons. Period. :roll:[/QUOTE]

Shaq played all games pretty healthy in most if not all. Wade only missed one and even though he was hurt in game 7 he still dominated so it didnt really affect him. Everyone else was healthy. And what the heats did was hrut themselves cause nobody injured them they did it to themselves. Detroit deserves to win imo.
 
[quote name='CaseyRyback']no need for a sig change. Wade played better than anyone in the playoffs so far, and showed how much better he was than the year before.

Can't wait to watch the Pistons lose after they finally play a team that is at near full strength[/QUOTE]

I think Genobli is a better overall player though. It would be cool to see them play one on one.
 
[quote name='Zenithian Legend']Oh, I don't think anyone is arguing that Pitino did a shit job in Boston, but that team was already dead upon Pitino's arrival. It'd be like if he went to the Clippers and they continued to suck. There were indeed plenty of chances for Pitino to make the team better, a T-Mac, Billups backcourt would've been exciting, but obviously it didn't work out like that. I suppose you could go and say that he managed to make an already struggling team even worse than it already was when he got there. Funny how immediately after Pitino left Boston started to win games again. Some guys just aren't meant to coach in the pros.[/QUOTE]
Yeah but they were in a perfect position for a multi year rebuilding process. Their cap situation wasn't bad, they had the 3rd and 6th picks, and a few veterans that could play and didn't make a shitload of money. If you wanted to completely rebuild and start over with a team, the Celtics were exactly where you wanted to be. The win-loss record may not have changed much in his time, but their future went out the window. He created the cap mess that they're still trying to get out of today.
 
[quote name='Grave_Addiction']I honestly feel nauseous right now.

So many stupid mistakes in the fourth and overtime. Why do you not foul Nash before he takes the three? Why don't you call a timeout afterwards? Why does Dirk shoot a fadaway three with more than 8 seconds on the clock when we're down by three points?

The Suns didn't win this game, the Mavs lost it. I feel like the entire season, everything they accomplished, is a wash thanks to this game.

We were up by 16 points at home in Game 6. How do you let that lead slip up?

I'm going to go kill a litter of kittens now.[/QUOTE]

Detroit and Dallas both have similar problems. They lose big leads very easily and fall asleep letting a team catch up. They have a hard time stopping the other team defensively when they start losing and often resort to fauls. They have a hard time catching up to a team that is up more than 5. WHen they settle for jumpshots they often lose the game and miss wide open shots but when they drive they make good things happen but than they start settling for jumpshots again and the other team catches up. They play alot of one on one instead of team ballgame. They dont feed the hot player like rasheed wallace who fell asleep in game one cause no one passed him the ball.
 
b [quote name='dafoomie']Yeah but they were in a perfect position for a multi year rebuilding process. Their cap situation wasn't bad, they had the 3rd and 6th picks, and a few veterans that could play and didn't make a shitload of money. If you wanted to completely rebuild and start over with a team, the Celtics were exactly where you wanted to be. The win-loss record may not have changed much in his time, but their future went out the window. He created the cap mess that they're still trying to get out of today.[/QUOTE]

Oh, with all those picks they could've easily rebounded, especially given the draw of coming to play for a franchise with the history of the Celtics. Pitino did blow the opportunity to make them a contender. You can't really fault him for their current cap situations though, it was Ainge who wanted guys like LaFrentz, Ricky Davis and Gary Payton, and Ainge who re-acquired Walker. Unless, there's some other players on the current roster sucking up a ton of cap space (besides Pierce) that I can't think of. This isn't an uncommon thing though, look at the Bulls and Clippers in particular, two teams that have had tons of draft picks and tons of cap room, yet have struggled horribly over the past 8 years for Chicago prior to this season, and since Larry Brown left in the case of the Clippers.

My take on Pitino, is he had a chance to rebuild Boston, blew it, but he didn't leave anything so devastating that the team couldn't repair it with the proper trades. And hey, at least he didn't sign Allan Houston, the man who I hold responsible for the demise of the Knicks.
 
[quote name='Zenithian Legend']b

Oh, with all those picks they could've easily rebounded, especially given the draw of coming to play for a franchise with the history of the Celtics. Pitino did blow the opportunity to make them a contender. You can't really fault him for their current cap situations though, it was Ainge who wanted guys like LaFrentz, Ricky Davis and Gary Payton, and Ainge who re-acquired Walker. Unless, there's some other players on the current roster sucking up a ton of cap space (besides Pierce) that I can't think of. This isn't an uncommon thing though, look at the Bulls and Clippers in particular, two teams that have had tons of draft picks and tons of cap room, yet have struggled horribly over the past 8 years for Chicago prior to this season, and since Larry Brown left in the case of the Clippers.

My take on Pitino, is he had a chance to rebuild Boston, blew it, but he didn't leave anything so devastating that the team couldn't repair it with the proper trades. And hey, at least he didn't sign Allan Houston, the man who I hold responsible for the demise of the Knicks.[/QUOTE]
Pitino left a bad cap situation and no players to show for it except Pierce and Walker. He had stiffs like Kenny Anderson, Bryant Stith, Randy Brown, Chris Carr, Greg Minor, Jerome Moiso, Vitaly Potapenko, Hot Rod Williams, Dana Barros, Calbert Cheney, Pervis Ellison, Danny Fortson, Dino Radja, and Tony Battie making tons of money, and massively overpaid people like Walker, McCarty, and Eric Williams.

Lafrentz was Ainge's fault, Payton and Walker's contracts are expiring so thats not the problem, Ricky Davis doesn't make a lot of money. The thing Pitino did, was to leave the Celtics over the cap with little hope of getting under it anytime soon, by overpaying role players or garbage players like McCarty, Potapenko, Williams, etc. The only thing they could do was to either overpay their own free agents to resign them, like Mark Blount's rediculous contract (since you can re-sign your own players as much as you want while over the cap), give shitty players the mid level exception, or take other team's bad contracts in exchange for your own, with a player or a pick on either end coming or going.
 
I know I'll probably get the :roll: for this, but it's interesting how this thread's topic has shifted given that the Pistons haven't shown up for the first 2 games of the Finals. Hopefully they'll get their act together for the games in Detroit. I fully expect them to, but they better hope that SA doesn't manage to take one game at their place. I think Detroit can still win this series, but I think the are going to have to win 4 straight to do it.
 
[quote name='chickenhawk']I know I'll probably get the :roll: for this, but it's interesting how this thread's topic has shifted given that the Pistons haven't shown up for the first 2 games of the Finals. Hopefully they'll get their act together for the games in Detroit. I fully expect them to, but they better hope that SA doesn't manage to take one game at their place. I think Detroit can still win this series, but I think the are going to have to win 4 straight to do it.[/QUOTE]

I think its becasue they celebrated their western conference win too much. I mean they were cheering like they won the championship, maybe their goal was just to beat the heat and they dont care about the rest?
 
That's eastern conference championship, and you're right. Detroit needs to show up for games 3-6. Hey it's not impossible for Detroit to win the next 4 games, look at where San Antonio had LA a year ago, only to drop the next 4 and be ousted from the play-offs. Game 3 is a must win though, if the Pistons fall again, this series is unfortunately over.


Back to the Celtics, I think another major problem was Pitino signed a lot of those guys to contracts shortly before the lock-out, and the shortened 50 game season of 99. Guys who signed big deals prior to that caused their teams to have some serious problems, and if I'm not mistaken there were plenty of guys left from the Pitino-regime at that time.

Back to the Pistons (again), I really don't understand it, why they failed to show up for games 1 & 2, outside the opening minutes of game 1 and then again for a stretch in the 4th quarters of both games 3 & 4, it really seemd as though the Pistons couldn't care less that they are playing in the NBA Finals! They sure must be confident in a game 3 win... I don't see the Spurs as this unbeatable juggernaut, cripes o' friday, they dropped two games to Seattle, who was missing Rashard Lewis. That'd be the equivalent of taking Ginobli off the Spurs. Heck the Sonics nearly won game 5 too. I'm just shaking my head as I type this, I don't get it, I just hope the Pistons win game 3, 4 and 5.
 
[quote name='Zenithian Legend']
Back to the Pistons (again), I really don't understand it, why they failed to show up for games 1 & 2, outside the opening minutes of game 1 and then again for a stretch in the 4th quarters of both games 3 & 4, it really seemd as though the Pistons couldn't care less that they are playing in the NBA Finals! They sure must be confident in a game 3 win... I don't see the Spurs as this unbeatable juggernaut, cripes o' friday, they dropped two games to Seattle, who was missing Rashard Lewis. That'd be the equivalent of taking Ginobli off the Spurs. Heck the Sonics nearly won game 5 too. I'm just shaking my head as I type this, I don't get it, I just hope the Pistons win game 3, 4 and 5.[/QUOTE]

I don't get it either to be honest. I was kinda expecting the Pistons to take one of the first two. All this talk about their experience (which I personally think is blown out of proportion) and how they just know how to win under pressure, but this is the Finals! Billups is still talking up how good they are under pressure, with their backs to the wall but if you can't get up for games 1 and 2 of the Finals, there is something wrong. The Spurs are far from unbeatable. We'll see how the Pistons react being in their own gym.
 
I wonder who would win in a series betwen the suns and sonics? On paper the sonics look real weak but they ddi real good in the playoffs this year for some reason.
 
I was kinda expecting the Pistons to take one of the first two. All this talk about their experience (which I personally think is blown out of proportion) and how they just know how to win under pressure, but this is the Finals!
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All the talk about the pistons is overblown and ridiculous. Yeah, they are a good team, but they win one championship and suddenly everyone is kissing their ass.

It's called the championship stupidity: where just because a team has the last championship they get treated as if they can do no wrong and are predicted to win every game.

Even the Pistons have bought into this mentallity cause all the do is bitch and whine everytime they lose a game or get a foul called on them. Every night for them is about excuses and the refs instead of how they got outplayed. It's sad.
 
First they lost twice to the Pacers of all teams, then they barely eeked out a win against a hobbled Miami team, now they're getting spanked by the Spurs. Add to that that they're a bunch of cocky (championship belt anyeone?) whiners with a disloyal head coach. And they wonder why they don't get respect? Pleeeease. It also doesn't help that they're antagonistic towards the media.... refusing to answer questions. I'm not saying they should change anything (in fact I'd prefer that they didn't), but you can't do all that stuff and then complain about not getting respect. If you want respect on the court, you have to win often and big. If you want respect off the court, stop being obnoxious.
 
[quote name='Katsu']First they lost twice to the Pacers of all teams, then they barely eeked out a win against a hobbled Miami team, now they're getting spanked by the Spurs. Add to that that they're a bunch of cocky (championship belt anyeone?) whiners with a disloyal head coach. And they wonder why they don't get respect? Pleeeease. It also doesn't help that they're antagonistic towards the media.... refusing to answer questions. I'm not saying they should change anything (in fact I'd prefer that they didn't), but you can't do all that stuff and then complain about not getting respect. If you want respect on the court, you have to win often and big. If you want respect off the court, stop being obnoxious.[/QUOTE]

How was Miami a hobbled team when Shaq played every game and Wade only missed one? Not to mention this same Heat team ran through everyone else and some of which was without Shaq (more important than wade).
 
[quote name='ReignOfTerror']How was Miami a hobbled team when Shaq played every game and Wade only missed one? Not to mention this same Heat team ran through everyone else and some of which was without Shaq (more important than wade).[/QUOTE]

I don't think Shaq was 100% and didn't Wade get hurt early in game 5, then not play game 6? I'd say they were hobbled, but they still choked in the 4th of game 7 plain and simple. As far as Shaq being more important than Wade, that's not as clear cut as maybe it was before the playoffs. Wade prooved he could carry a team without Shaq there.

It was nice to see the Pistons finally figured out what these games mean. It's kinda crazy that every game has been a blowout. It would be nice to see a competitive game....maybe in game 4.
 
[quote name='chickenhawk']I don't think Shaq was 100% and didn't Wade get hurt early in game 5, then not play game 6? I'd say they were hobbled, but they still choked in the 4th of game 7 plain and simple. As far as Shaq being more important than Wade, that's not as clear cut as maybe it was before the playoffs. Wade prooved he could carry a team without Shaq there.

It was nice to see the Pistons finally figured out what these games mean. It's kinda crazy that every game has been a blowout. It would be nice to see a competitive game....maybe in game 4.[/QUOTE]

I thought he was only hurt in a small portion of game 5 and I think they won it anyway didnt they? Also keep in mind that Detroit wasnt played that good in the series and Rasheed Wallace was basically a non factor in that series. And Shaq didnt seem to hurt (you know him taking many guys off jsut because his pinky or toe hurt remember?) I mean look at how agressivly he played, he didnt score too much simply because he missed shots (outside dunks) and was double team, but shaqs presence alone guarantees other guys to be open and get easy shots which the Heat did. But against the Spurs the pistons are showing us why they are the champs, and tkaing care opf business on thier home court. They are finally playing like they did nlast year against the Lakers. I think they were too confident and arrogant and thats the only reason they fell asleep and lost the first two games. And that championship belt might be around their waiste for a bit longer.
 
Horace Jenkins is a 30 yr old rookie for Detroit? Is that the oldest rookie in the history of the nba? I havent even seem him play, why is he always on the bench? Whats funny about tonights game is Detroit just toyed with the spurs.
 
Guess my dream of a competitive game will have to wait a few more days. :roll: It seems like these teams get off their home court and forget what they are playing for. How can two championship caliber teams have such inconsistent play!?!

As far as the Heat go and how banged up they were, it's reasonable to assume that Shaq missed alot of shots because he wasn't 100%. I am pretty sure Wade was hurt early in game 5, but they did win that game anyway. To say that Detroit didn't play that good though doesn't really offset the fact that the Heat were banged up in my opinion. There may have been a reason they weren't playing well....cause they were playing a good team! Either way, I am not going to come off like a Heat fanboy and say the Heat would have won if they were all healthy for the whole series. I did pick the Heat to win it all, but they blew game 7 and probably would have even if the whole team was 100%.
 
I'll say this much.....I can't recall the last time that the home team in the Finals layed thorough smackdowns on each other like this.
 
I dont think shaq was that hurt, he had like a week to rest after the washington series and came up pretty big in game 1. Also, I recently watched one spn classics the old shaq playing on the magic in the finals vs the rockets and he missed even more shots and touched the ball less, and didnt know what to do with double teams back than. And that was a young hungry shaq, so how bad could he have been if he played better as a heat 10 yrs later?
 
11 guys on the pistons put up double digits in the last game. They scored like 197 in the last 2 games. You want them to be more competent offensively than that? They broke the record for turnovers (also 7 guys in double figures is a playoff record). I guess you wouldnt be happy unless phoenix was in the finals. They were such a fraud team. Anyway, I guess that the pistons just happened top play teams who played shitty for the last few years, it wasnt because theyve been playing unbelievably. All luck, two years in a row. The lakers "imploded" Detroit didnt take their souls. And every other team was injured, or didnt play well. Sorry but these are the two best ball clubs of the last 5 years by far.
 
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