2010-2011 NBA Season Thread

[quote name='J7.']You're wrong so you want us to move on... Why don't you make a comparison from the past, take the number one player and another top 5 player and another top 20 or whatever Bosh is and compare them to a few top 20 players who are all over age 30. You want to start with Jordan, Magic, Bird? Who else do you want to add to the roster?
[/QUOTE]

It has nothing to do with you thinking I am wrong. You as well as some others in here are too stubborn. Not worth it to keep arguing with people that are obviously disappointed that another team in the East is the top dog (vs my lovely Celtics... swoon) or that Lebron didn't go to MY team (the best city in the world NY baby). People love to forget the past when it deals with their own team and try to make excuses. :roll:

To answer your question... I already stated how Wade and Bosh's numbers are the same as Garnett and Allen. Lebron being the best player in the NBA of course no one would compare to him outside of the few I listed earlier. If you think that Garnett and Allen still aren't playing to the same high level as they did, you are just delusional. How else do you explain the Celtics winning a championship the year they got together prior to explosion of Rondo? I am still waiting on an explaination on how the Celtics could lose to Orlando last year yet crush them (yes crush them) in this year's Eastern Conference finals...Our team is better this year vs last year. The only difference is Kevin Garnett actually played... the same guy you said is just another midlevel guy...the same guy that held one of our best three point shooters to little to no touches on his lock down defense.

Lastly, what does Jordan, Bird, and Magic have anything to do with it? They all played while Lebron grew up idolizing them. They never played on the same court competitively. Let alone ever leaving their franchise to play with other NBA superstars.

[quote name='advanced']And as for Kobe wanting to be traded, its understandable. He bitched for a bit but was willing to work through it and make the team he loves better. I can't fault a man for voicing his opinion, but Chris Paul wanting to play with another superstar is different and the only teams he's interested in are already contenders (with the one exception of NY, but I'd like to get halfway into the season to make that call if I could). Kobe wasn't saying "Trade me, but only trade me to this team or this team.", Kobe was using it as a way to get the Laker front office to wake up and realize they might lose their star player. Not as a way to get someone else to shoulder the load. [/QUOTE]

Oh just like how he got Phil Jackson, hands down an all-time great coach, fired in 2004 after fighting with him over his offense style previous seasons... or how about getting Shaq, one of the greatest centers, to demand to be traded...
or his press conference to discuss his relationship/rape trial that overshadowed his team...
Yea Kobe has no qualms :roll:
 
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God damn, will guys stop fighting. Seriously and Lord give it up. Pierce, KG and Ray Allen had been in the league a decade plus. These guys if they are lucky get 15 years of being a star. KG and Allen got together for their last 5 years. It's their Twilight. The 3 Clowns still have a decade plus of being in the light.
 
[quote name='wildcpac']God damn, will guys stop fighting. Seriously and Lord give it up. Pierce, KG and Ray Allen had been in the league a decade plus. These guys if they are lucky get 15 years of being a star. KG and Allen got together for their last 5 years. It's their Twilight. The 3 Clowns still have a decade plus of being in the light.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. But it still doesn't take away the premise. They still were all capable superstars even if they only have 5 more years. We can't fault Wade/Bosh/James for wanting to do the same thing at an earlier age. They just aren't going to waste those extra years of their career like Pierce/Garnett/Allen did.
 
[quote name='lordopus99']
Oh just like how he got Phil Jackson, hands down an all-time great coach, fired in 2004 after fighting with him over his offense style previous seasons... or how about getting Shaq, one of the greatest centers, to demand to be traded...
or his press conference to discuss his relationship/rape trial that overshadowed his team...
Yea Kobe has no qualms :roll:[/QUOTE]

I must have forgotten the one hour special on ESPN to announce his decision to rape that girl and the audience too. Get off it. When Kobe had that press conference, it actually mattered as it was a civil case that was being fought in court, it wasn't to boost his own ego and pad his buddies wallets. As for the other things, those are just further proof at how a franchise is willing to make sacrifices for its star. Had LBJ stated he would forever want to stay in Cleveland, you bet your ass they would have moved heaven and earth to get him a cast. His wishy washy, flip flopping, greener grass chasing ways (along with His Quitness) are the reason he never won a championship.

As for Kobe, dude's got his fair share problems, but on the court, he's the best there is right now. He's a student of the game who's constantly perfecting his craft. Dude played most the season with a broken finger, so long that its become arthritic. LBJ complained about a phantom elbow injury that appeared as fast as it disappeared and used it as a crutch to quit playing tough. Kobe plays until the last second, LBJ gives up in the 3rd. Kobe's got a better all around game than LBJ and can lead a team, LBJ wants shit handed to him with little or no effort on his part.

Seriously, I don't like Kobe at all. I don't like the Lakers, I don't like him, I don't like Phil Jackson. Hell, the only member of that team I like is Ron Artest because of his tough defensive ways, but I'm willing to give respect where its due and not let the media tell me what I should believe. If you claim that LeBron's MVP trophy/award means anything, all your saying is that you're going to allow someone else to make your decision for you because the award is voted on. Thats like saying the current President of the United States of America is the greatest president ever because he won a beauty contest.
 
[quote name='lordopus99']Agreed. But it still doesn't take away the premise. They still were all capable superstars even if they only have 5 more years. We can't fault Wade/Bosh/James for wanting to do the same thing at an earlier age. They just aren't going to waste those extra years of their career like Pierce/Garnett/Allen did.[/QUOTE]


Yes they are superstars but they are more likely to injury and closer and closer to becoming has beens.

Last years as a superstar for the following players. They all played several seasons after at a big time reduction of output.

Barkley 32 years old.
Ewing 34 years old
Drexler 34
Pippen 32
David Robinson 32
Olajuwon 34



Ray Allen was 32 when he went to Boston. He is 35 now.
Kevin Garnett was 31. 34 now.
 
Again, one player should not cripple a franchise if he wasn't one of the best, if not THE best. He makes everyone around him better. He plays all positions. Yes, he gave up this year but saying he isn't clutch is far fetched. I still remember watching him drained a tough 3pointer in Game 2 08-09 of the ECF. The same series he carried the whole team on his back and almost beat us.
 
[quote name='wildcpac']Yes they are superstars but they are more likely to injury and closer and closer to becoming has beens.

Last years as a superstar for the following players. They all played several seasons after at a big time reduction of output.

Barkley 32 years old.
Ewing 34 years old
Drexler 34
Pippen 32
David Robinson 32
Olajuwon 34

Ray Allen was 32 when he went to Boston. He is 35 now.
Kevin Garnett was 31. 34 now.[/QUOTE]

We are in a completely different age. Better nutrition, weight training, injury prevention than those days. Players are lasting longer in all sports. Also, you can be injured early too. Look at Greg Oden or Andrew Bynum or how about a little in the past such as Antonio McDyess (if the knee never died, he would be a Gerald Wallace).
All these guys still going strong over 30 and some of the tops in the NBA. All playing starter minutes. Only listed a few that came to mind.
Tim Duncan - 33
Steve Nash - 35
Kobe Bryant - 31
Dirk - 31
Chauncey Billups - 33
Steven Jackson - 33
Marcus Camby - 35
Vince Carter - 33
 
[quote name='lordopus99']Again, one player should not cripple a franchise if he wasn't one of the best, if not THE best. He makes everyone around him better. He plays all positions. Yes, he gave up this year but saying he isn't clutch is far fetched. I still remember watching him drained a tough 3pointer in Game 2 08-09 of the ECF. The same series he carried the whole team on his back and almost beat us.[/QUOTE]

Fair enough. His clutch isn't under question though, its number one status in the league. Dude's got the clutch. Out of Bosh, Wade and LBJ, I'd have him take that last tough shot 4 times out 5, but that doesn't mean I'm going line up and say he's the best there is right now when Kobe's staring everyone in the face.
 
[quote name='lordopus99']We are in a completely different age. Better nutrition, weight training, injury prevention than those days. Players are lasting longer in all sports. Also, you can be injured early too. Look at Greg Oden or Andrew Bynum or how about a little in the past such as Antonio McDyess (if the knee never died, he would be a Gerald Wallace).
All these guys still going strong over 30 and some of the tops in the NBA. All playing starter minutes. Only listed a few that came to mind.
Tim Duncan - 33
Steve Nash - 35
Kobe Bryant - 31
Dirk - 31
Chauncey Billups - 33
Steven Jackson - 33
Marcus Camby - 35
Vince Carter - 33
[/QUOTE]


Yes because the late 1990's was 10000 years ago.

Marcus Camby, Vince Carter, Steven Jackson are not superstars.

Which is why Anfernee Hardaway, McDyess and Steve Francis from this current generation all retired early due to injuries. Which is why TmMac from this generation is a hasbeen and a shell of his former self at 31.


Thanks for the laugh though.
 
[quote name='lordopus99']It has nothing to do with you thinking I am wrong. You as well as some others in here are too stubborn. Not worth it to keep arguing with people that are obviously disappointed that another team in the East is the top dog (vs my lovely Celtics... swoon) or that Lebron didn't go to MY team (the best city in the world NY baby). People love to forget the past when it deals with their own team and try to make excuses. :roll:

To answer your question... I already stated how Wade and Bosh's numbers are the same as Garnett and Allen. Lebron being the best player in the NBA of course no one would compare to him outside of the few I listed earlier. If you think that Garnett and Allen still aren't playing to the same high level as they did, you are just delusional. How else do you explain the Celtics winning a championship the year they got together prior to explosion of Rondo? I am still waiting on an explaination on how the Celtics could lose to Orlando last year yet crush them (yes crush them) in this year's Eastern Conference finals...Our team is better this year vs last year. The only difference is Kevin Garnett actually played... the same guy you said is just another midlevel guy...the same guy that held one of our best three point shooters to little to no touches on his lock down defense.

Lastly, what does Jordan, Bird, and Magic have anything to do with it? They all played while Lebron grew up idolizing them. They never played on the same court competitively. Let alone ever leaving their franchise to play with other NBA superstars.
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Based on your hostile wording I still think you dropped the discussion because everyone disagrees with you. You're as stubborn as any of us. Yes I am upset Miami is now good enough on paper to win the finals for the next 5 years easily and my team is not, but I am just as upset about the whole situation.

2 top 5 players in the league should not play for 1 team with another top 20 to boot especially at a young age. You can claim the Celtics did this but I do not see how 2 top 5's (including #1) & a top 20 = 3 top 20's past their prime (or IYO a year before they were past their prime...). You can claim coming together hurt their stats, but one can also make the claim coming together and having better teammates improved their stats.

Having 2 top 5 players and Bosh together on 1 team is going to result in blowouts against many teams and very little losses against others for a loooong time as long as they don't fudge it up with chemistry. It's going to make the NBA less fun to watch and I think we'll see this happen again unless the NBA changes the rules. Look forward to more teams full of top players teaming together and little competition among the league anymore.

So Allen, Pierce, Garnett all having their worst stats since rookie year = playing at the same high level. Bravo again.

Did you really miss my point that badly. Damn. Never said anything about them and Lebron playing vs each other or them teaming up. The point was do the same thing that's going on with LBJ, Wade, & Bosh but in the past. Take Magic, or Bird, or Jordan (in place of Lebron) add another top 5 player to their team, then add a top 20 or top 15 player. Then take 3 other guys that are over 30 and only top 20 and put them on another team, now compare those 2 teams to each other.... Are they equal?
 
[quote name='lordopus99']It has nothing to do with you thinking I am wrong. You as well as some others in here are too stubborn. Not worth it to keep arguing with people that are obviously disappointed that another team in the East is the top dog (vs my lovely Celtics... swoon) or that Lebron didn't go to MY team (the best city in the world NY baby). People love to forget the past when it deals with their own team and try to make excuses. :roll:[/QUOTE]

Just saw that thanks to J7, and I assume its directed at me (or dafoomie, but he's rarely around). While I can agree at first I overracted, I couldn't give a shit less about the Heat until the playoffs. I just believe that LBJ shouldn't be respected for breaking up with his girlfriend of the past 7 years on national television because he's been gallivanting around with Wade and Bosh for the past two years. I honestly would have more respect for him if he came out with Wade and Bosh and do it the way they did. Sure, it was on TV, but it wasn't advertised and built up as this huge production and using a charity to make it "okay" for him to feed his ego. He proved he's scum with his tactics this past free agency period, showing that he'd rather further his marketing company and his "brand" and feed his massive ego than get down to business. The whole parade of teams in Cleveland was pretty sickening, but at least it was understandable. When he brought that into a "Decision" televised hour, that is rumored to have been in the works since he was eliminted by the Celtics (swoon), it showed that he isn't worried about basketball. He's a prima donna who has had his ego fed for far too long. Is he a great athlete? Yeah, he's a pretty fantastic athlete, but he's proven that its only so he can become the mogul he longs to be. He'd sooner attend a Warren Buffett seminar than watch tapes to improve his game. If thats who you want to root for, go right ahead.

Back to the Heat though. As a Celtics fan, I believe I have to go with the words of Rajon Rondo when asked about the Heat, “They should be good, but they ain’t done nothing yet."
 
Guys will you please stop. Seriously! lBJ respects the NBA. That is why he ruined the Cavs organization and joined the Dream Team in one of the smallest worst markets in the NBA. He wants competition and integrity in the sport. Which is why he told CP3 to stay out West.

Magic had Kareem and Worthy. Funny how nobody mentions that Kareem was 32 years old plus during that run. Nobody mentions that Worthy was a draft pick based on pure flat out dumb luck.

Bird had McHale and Parish. Nobody mentions that the Celtics traded JBC for Parish and the draft pick to McHale. Once again pure dumb luck.



ESPN is reporting that the Hornets were turning down and hanging up on calls that inquired the status of CP3. Sounds like they are turning the blind eye.
 
[quote name='J7.']
2 top 5 players in the league should not play for 1 team with another top 20 to boot especially at a young age. You can claim the Celtics did this but I do not see how 2 top 5's (including #1) & a top 20 = 3 top 20's past their prime (or IYO a year before they were past their prime...). You can claim coming together hurt their stats, but one can also make the claim coming together and having better teammates improved their stats.
[/QUOTE]

So Allen, Pierce, Garnett all having their worst stats since rookie year = playing at the same high level. Bravo again.
Click to expand...

Past their prime or not, they were still top 20 players in the league. Of course their stats will be different... shooting percentages up, yet points down. It's because they are playing with better teammates than Wally or Antonie Walker. They are playing with top 20 players, who will get their shots as well, plus an up-and-coming great point guard in Rondo (who creates alot of shots).
Yea this guy looks past his prime :roll: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CURifl9r4Os
Or how about this guy... I thought throwing bows was for young players, not players past their prime http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eycPuFmGCdU
Or how about this guy... who bangs out threes better than most players in the league http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrzsRRlwaUQ

All these guys look like they are way past their prime. Guys past their prime look like this. They only get youtube clips when getting posterized.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxAPl0kmlhU

Having 2 top 5 players and Bosh together on 1 team is going to result in blowouts against many teams and very little losses against others for a loooong time as long as they don't fudge it up with chemistry. It's going to make the NBA less fun to watch and I think we'll see this happen again unless the NBA changes the rules. Look forward to more teams full of top players teaming together and little competition among the league anymore.
Click to expand...

Rondo says it best...
[quote name='j7']Back to the Heat though. As a Celtics fan, I believe I have to go with the words of Rajon Rondo when asked about the Heat, “They should be good, but they ain’t done nothing yet." [/QUOTE]

On paper these guys look amazing but they have to work out team chemistry i.e. check egos at the door. The NBA refs will do their best like they did all year to try to prevent blowouts by calling phantom calls. The NBA lost its greatness a couple years back when they started allowing flopping. It's why college basketball is ten times better than the NBA. A bunch of great players jumping to the same team is the new fad. Chicago and New York tried it (both will probably succeed at some point). LA has it, Boston has it, Orlando has it.


Did you really miss my point that badly. Damn. Never said anything about them and Lebron playing vs each other or them teaming up. The point was do the same thing that's going on with LBJ, Wade, & Bosh but in the past. Take Magic, or Bird, or Jordan (in place of Lebron) add another top 5 player to their team, then add a top 20 or top 15 player. Then take 3 other guys that are over 30 and only top 20 and put them on another team, now compare those 2 teams to each other.... Are they equal?
Click to expand...

We will see your answer come this next year when Boston plays Miami. Based on how "unfair" it is and based on your prediction, they shouldn't win any part of the games against them since 3 old guys are inferior to 3 young guys.

[quote name='j7']Just saw that thanks to J7, and I assume its directed at me (or dafoomie, but he's rarely around). While I can agree at first I overracted, I couldn't give a shit less about the Heat until the playoffs. I just believe that LBJ shouldn't be respected for breaking up with his girlfriend of the past 7 years on national television because he's been gallivanting around with Wade and Bosh for the past two years. I honestly would have more respect for him if he came out with Wade and Bosh and do it the way they did. Sure, it was on TV, but it wasn't advertised and built up as this huge production and using a charity to make it "okay" for him to feed his ego. He proved he's scum with his tactics this past free agency period, showing that he'd rather further his marketing company and his "brand" and feed his massive ego than get down to business. The whole parade of teams in Cleveland was pretty sickening, but at least it was understandable. When he brought that into a "Decision" televised hour, that is rumored to have been in the works since he was eliminted by the Celtics (swoon), it showed that he isn't worried about basketball. He's a prima donna who has had his ego fed for far too long. Is he a great athlete? Yeah, he's a pretty fantastic athlete, but he's proven that its only so he can become the mogul he longs to be. He'd sooner attend a Warren Buffett seminar than watch tapes to improve his game. If thats who you want to root for, go right ahead.[/QUOTE]

Yes, it was wrong letting his handlers talk him into doing a special that took in lots of money. Yes, he is a "prima donna" but what player isn't. Ray Allen, even himself, was in a feature role in a big time movie (He Got Game). How about all the Tiger Woods crap. How about Chad Johnson (i mean) Ochocinco. Let's bend it like Beckham. It is an industry and the majority of true superstars are big ego trips. As for me and my support of teams/players, I root for my original hometown teams (Orlando) but my true love of sports come from college sports as players play with heart in hopes to get to the next level. They don't play for a pay check and could care less if they win or lose because they will make the same amount of money either way.

[quote name='wildcpac']Yes because the late 1990's was 10000 years ago.

Marcus Camby, Vince Carter, Steven Jackson are not superstars.

Which is why Anfernee Hardaway, McDyess and Steve Francis from this current generation all retired early due to injuries. Which is why TmMac from this generation is a hasbeen and a shell of his former self at 31.

Thanks for the laugh though. [/QUOTE]

- Camby - 2 years ago was All Defensive 1st team. 06-07 Defensive Player of the Year. Yea he isn't a superstar because the analysts dont follow him. Dude still averages a double double. Last year number 2 in rebounds per game, number 5 in blocks per game... but yea the dude sucks. Defense makes you a superstar as well.
- Jackson - averages almost 20 points a game. Received a vote for MVP last year. But I guess when you play sidekick for most of your career people say you are a great player...
- Vince - you are the one causing me to laugh. The dude has been on Olympics team. Yes guy is no longer dunking over 7 footers but he is still able to score at will when he wants.

PS McDyess still plays in the NBA for San Antonio :lol:
But seriously McDyess lost his thunder after his crazy knee injury in Phoenix early in his career. TMac has always had injuries. He sat out in Orlando because of "back injuries". That was in his "prime". Penny Hardaway was a bust. He, to me was a fake superstar. Shaq made him. The day he left, Penny's career tanked. The only satisfying moment of him for me as an Orlando fan was his "Lil Penny" commercials.

[quote name='wildcpac']ESPN is reporting that the Hornets were turning down and hanging up on calls that inquired the status of CP3. Sounds like they are turning the blind eye. [/QUOTE]

I am glad they are but they will regret it when he leaves them and they get nothing in return. They should deal him to a team he doesn't want to play for someone they could use. :lol:
 
New Orleans best chance to get maximum value in return for Chris Paul is trading with Portland. A combination of expiring contracts (Joel Pryzbilla + Andre Miller = $14 million) with Miller also being able to mentor Collison for a year, young talent (Rudy Fernandez + Jerryd Bayless + Nicolas Batum OR Greg Oden), dumping awful contracts that Portland would be willing to take on (Okafor, maybe Posey), future draft picks, rights to international players, and $3 million dollars.
 
Which is your own opinion. Gallo or Randolph, Curry, Chandler, etc is much more attractive in my book. I really do not want to see the Knicks trade off their depth for CP3 though.
 
My guess is Paul either goes to the Knicks or stays put. Okafor's contract is the killer, Orlando has already said they won't take it on. And there's now way they trade Paul with out Okafor included.
 
Is it the meeting that went well or is it because he walked out of the meeting convinced that there was no chance of any good team realistically trading for him?
 
[quote name='wildcpac']Which is your own opinion. Gallo or Randolph, Curry, Chandler, etc is much more attractive in my book. I really do not want to see the Knicks trade off their depth for CP3 though.[/QUOTE]

Gallo is the one talent that would be absolutely required in a trade. Curry's expiring contract as well. However, as you mentioned, the Knicks would have no depth and would not be a championship team. Paul/Amare does not get you a championship. And the signing of Felton would've been pointless.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']No way to know. Third option is they told him there was no way they'd trade him and he can shut up and play or sit for two years.[/QUOTE]

Or he can refuse to play, or agree to "play" and half-ass it every night.
 
[quote name='MasterSun1']Or he can refuse to play, or agree to "play" and half-ass it every night.[/QUOTE]

True. Though doing that could hurt his trade stock/free agent stock etc.
 
[quote name='wwe101']tell me what you guys think of this idea, shaq on the thunder? would be a good inside presence they havent had.[/QUOTE]

Shaq would collapse halfway through a quarter from all the running and gunning.. you know, because he's fat and old now. :cool:
 
What mis0 and wildc said about Shaq. Although the last thing the C's need to do is get any older, he wouldn't be an absolutely horrible addition.
 
How great would it be if Kobe called up Shaq and said, "Come to the Lakers big guy. Let's win one more championship together." Not only would it be a great ending to Shaq's career, but the Lakers would get just as much, if not more, publicity than the Heat.

The old veteran partners putting aside their differences and teaming up once more to take on the young superpowers. And of course the roles would be reversed as they have come full circle and Kobe would be the leader and Shaq the sidekick.

It would be an NBA Finals for the fucking ages.
 
I do not think Shaq would be that bad on the Celtics. He can draw some fouls, be a big body and score garbage points when needed.
 
If he goes as a backup, and knows his time there is to back up Perk, he'd definitely fit.

If he could help teach Perk a few pointers, that'd be a huge plus as well.
 
[quote name='mis0']Shaq would collapse halfway through a quarter from all the running and gunning.. you know, because he's fat and old now. :cool:[/QUOTE]

Yeah, he'd kill the teams flow just like he did the Suns when he went there.
 
Shaq doesn't want the minimum, he wants a S&T for Sheed's contract. And he won't want a role where he's 3rd on the depth chart at center or even coming off the bench at all.

He draws defenders into the paint when the Celtics like to spread the floor. His pick and roll defense is horrible. He's not a good fit with the Celtics starters, if he wants to take the minimum and come off the bench he could help the C's, but he doesn't.
 
Shaq needs to realize that the market for him isn't there and nobody wants a broken down pushing 40 year old fat center. Man up, take the vet minimum and try to win one last title before you retire. Or just retire and stop pissing on your tarnished legacy.


Cavs and T Wolves make a deal. Delonte Gloria James fucker West and Telfair for Sessions and Hollins.


Kahn is cornering the market on PG's. T Wolves now have 5. LOL.
 
Surprise Surprise, CP3 is still seeking a way out of NOH.

July 26, 2010
By Ken Berger
CBSSports.com Senior Writer

The developments in New Orleans on Monday had all the hallmarks of modern-day damage control: A rosy statement via Twitter, some positive spin in a media availability session that was noticeably devoid of actual information and apparent reasons for optimism that Chris Paul's desire to be traded will quiet down for a while.

In other words, the smokescreen formed exactly as planned after Paul met for 90 minutes with the Hornets' new basketball decision-making team in New Orleans. This is the united front being portrayed to the outside world. On the inside, little has changed: Yes, Paul wants to win, but realizes that for reasons beyond the control of new GM Dell Demps and new coach Monty Williams, it can't happen in New Orleans. And the organization itself has begun the inevitable process of exploring ways to make this end to everyone's satisfaction.

The Hornets succeeded in only one of their goals Monday: ending the public part of this spectacle. The rest of it, up to and including a possible trade that will extricate Paul from the Hornets while salvaging some semblance of value for the organization, will be dealt with behind closed doors.

"The telltale thing is that Chris Paul won't comment publicly other than what was released about it," said a person familiar with Paul's strategy. "Leon Rose didn't come out and say, 'Chris is happy in New Orleans.' If he was happy, they would've said that. ... The only way they can get close to full value is to say, 'You guys can't make trade demands.' They're orchestrating this thing to likely move him."

According to multiple people within the NBA who are familiar with the Hornets' predicament, Paul's new cadre of power brokers at Creative Artists Agency, led by Rose, are continuing to push Paul's exit strategy from New Orleans -- something members of the organization are well aware of and expected.

The Hornets, meanwhile, have been looking at Orlando, Charlotte and New Jersey as potentially attractive trade partners once the firestorm settles down, according to one of the people with direct knowledge of the Hornets' strategy. Two other sources familiar with the situation confirmed prior discussions involving the Bobcats and Nets and said those talks are expected to advance in the coming days.

The Hornets are concentrating on Eastern Conference teams as trade partners in the event they decide it isn't feasible to enter the 2010-11 season with their franchise player wanting out. And despite Monday's optimistic spin, that is where things are headed, sources say.

"Basically, he doesn't think they're good enough and he's put LeBron's people around him for a reason," the person familiar with Paul's strategy said. "And he doesn't want to wait two years and be 27 years old trying to get on a championship team. He wants to do it now."

The Hornets' strategy, according to one of the sources, is to sell Paul on the notion that the organization doesn't lack resources; the Hornets have spent money on players such as Peja Stojakovic, Mo Peterson and James Posey, but have spent it poorly. With the new team of Demps and Williams in place, the team hopes to persuade Paul that it can transform a borderline playoff team with a healthy Paul into a championship contender with wise personnel moves and patience to get out from under bad contracts and other past mistakes.

But Paul's perspective is that the organization has either been unwilling or unable to pay the luxury tax to improve, and will continue to resist such spending while owner George Shinn is looking for a buyer. Demps and Williams, according to sources, also recognize how difficult it would be to reconcile the vision of a new regime with Paul's longstanding concerns. "They don't want to start the season with him unless he changes his attitude," one of the people said.

At least two Eastern Conference executives were telling colleagues over the weekend that they believed they had credible offers in place if and when the Hornets decide to move forward with serious trade talks. One of those teams was the Knicks, who along with the Magic and Lakers were on Paul's original list of teams he'd like to be traded to, as CBSSports.com reported July 21.

The Knicks' offer -- and any realistic one -- would center on the willingness to absorb the contracts of Emeka Okafor (due $53.2 million over the next four years) and/or Posey (due $13.4 million over the next two seasons). The Knicks, who have a clear need for a defensive center like Okafor and wouldn't necessarily balk at his contract, also could include the $11.3 million expiring contract of Eddy Curry, $3 million cash and an assortment of young, low-priced players including Danilo Gallinari, Wilson Chandler, and some of those acquired in offseason moves (Anthony Randolph, Kelenna Azubuike, Ray Felton) once the window during which they can't be traded opens. Felton, a free-agent signee, can't be traded until Dec. 15. The players acquired from Golden State in the sign-and-trade arrangement for David Lee may have a 60-day waiting period depending on how the Knicks consummated the deal.

There are indications that the Hornets believe the Magic, Bobcats and Nets would have equally, if not more attractive assets to offer. The positive spin emanating from Monday's meeting allows the Hornets to "keep working on it," and puts them in "a better negotiating position to do so," said one of the sources.

"They don't want to let CP3 dictate the teams," the person said. "And they can't look like they are being held hostage by his trade demands."

In order to avoid negative publicity and damage to the Hornets' negotiating position, all parties involved in Monday's meeting agreed to keep the content of the dialogue private, sources say. Paul, evidently, is playing along. The Hornets announced a media availability with the All-Star point guard Tuesday morning at his Tulane University basketball camp, but stressed in the news release that Paul would have no further comment about Monday's meeting.

In his statement released via Twitter after the meeting attended by Paul, his brother, C.J., as well as Rose, Demps, Williams and Hornets president Hugh Weber, Paul stopped short of putting his name on a trade request. That was by design, for two reasons: Publicly requesting a trade would've subjected Paul to a fine, and further escalating the matter would've hurt the Hornets' ability to get fair value in a trade. Also, sources say Paul doesn't have the personality for a direct, face-to-face trade demand and the kind of fallout that would result. So he is comfortable letting CAA, which successfully aligned LeBron James, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh in Miami, handle it through backchannels.
 
As a Knicks fan, I hope they pullout and save themselves before selling off the farm and taking on Ok4 and Posey as well in return. I want that cap room to be used to go after Deron Williams, Melo or whomever else is available and worth it as a free agent.
 
[quote name='wildcpac']As a Knicks fan, I hope they pullout and save themselves before selling off the farm and taking on Ok4 and Posey as well in return. I want that cap room to be used to go after Deron Williams, Melo or whomever else is available and worth it as a free agent.[/QUOTE]

You don't think Chris Paul is worth it? I think that he would be able to help Stoudemire immensely, I mean, look what he did for Chandler who isn't half the talent as Stoudemire.
 
[quote name='docvinh']You don't think Chris Paul is worth it? I think that he would be able to help Stoudemire immensely, I mean, look what he did for Chandler who isn't half the talent as Stoudemire.[/QUOTE]

Not if the Knicks have to gut their team and trade off their 3-6 best players. Rooster, Randolph, Chandler, Buike, Curry's expiring contract. Not if the Knicks have to taken on OK4 in the deal. That would leave Amare, CP3, OK4, Turiaf and a bunch of 2nd round rookies.

That means no cap room to go after Melo, whomever in the future. Knicks over spending for CP3 is going to do more harm than good. Knicks right now have the cap room for 2011 and 2012 to add a max free agent. They would have to trade off a couple of cheap players or renounce rights but it is easy for them to do so. I rather see the Knicks remain flexible than take on a OK4 contract.

Things going for the Knicks. Payroll flexibility and the majority of the roster is under the age of 24, talented and making 4 million or less.


t's simple:
- Paul costs Randolph and/or Gallo plus lots of other guys.
- No Paul without Okafor.
- No capspace for Melo with Okafor.
- It's Paul + Amare + Okafor, no capspace, no tradeable assets.

---> Not even close to a Championship team.



Only way I trade for CP3 is the following. Randolph or Gallo, Chandler, Douglas. Knicks do not take on OK4 and Posey.
I do not think that is going to get a deal done but that is where I would stand.
 
[quote name='wildcpac']Shaq needs to realize that the market for him isn't there and nobody wants a broken down pushing 40 year old fat center. Man up, take the vet minimum and try to win one last title before you retire. Or just retire and stop pissing on your tarnished legacy.


Cavs and T Wolves make a deal. Delonte Gloria James fucker West and Telfair for Sessions and Hollins.


Kahn is cornering the market on PG's. T Wolves now have 5. LOL.[/QUOTE]

i wonder if this means we are goin to trade mo williams now. i think he would be a perfect fit on the lakers.
 
I still like Shaq on the Celtics for his rebounding, matching up against Howard, being a good matchup to exploit against Miami's centers, and another offensive option in the paint. All things the C's need. I can only imagine how many times Rondo would be able to drive to the hoop and dish it off to Shaq for an easy bucket. It's all on Shaq though, he has to readjust himself mentally.

[quote name='lordopus99']Past their prime or not, they were still top 20 players in the league. Of course their stats will be different... shooting percentages up, yet points down. It's because they are playing with better teammates than Wally or Antonie Walker. They are playing with top 20 players, who will get their shots as well, plus an up-and-coming great point guard in Rondo (who creates alot of shots).
Yea this guy looks past his prime :roll:[/url]
Or how about this guy... I thought throwing bows was for young players, not players past their prime[/url]
Or how about this guy... who bangs out threes better than most players in the league [/url]

All these guys look like they are way past their prime. Guys past their prime look like this. They only get youtube clips when getting posterized.
[/QUOTE]

I must have missed the memo where stats don't mean anything (worst stats for the Big 3 since their rookie years) and highlight videos from youtube users are the real say. :roll: Or that still being able to hit 3's or throw an elbow is what matters in determining players physical condition and overall ability. So now we've gone from "they're not past their prime" to "past their prime or not..."

[quote name='lordopus99']
Rondo says it best...

On paper these guys look amazing but they have to work out team chemistry i.e. check egos at the door. The NBA refs will do their best like they did all year to try to prevent blowouts by calling phantom calls. The NBA lost its greatness a couple years back when they started allowing flopping. It's why college basketball is ten times better than the NBA. A bunch of great players jumping to the same team is the new fad. Chicago and New York tried it (both will probably succeed at some point). LA has it, Boston has it, Orlando has it.
[/QUOTE]
The shit is all on paper for them to do what they want to do. It is only if they fuck it up that they don't achieve. Rondo will say what's best for his team.

Dude I was not the person who posted this:
[quote name='advanced']
Back to the Heat though. As a Celtics fan, I believe I have to go with the words of Rajon Rondo when asked about the Heat, “They should be good, but they ain’t done nothing yet."[/QUOTE]

[quote name='lordopus99']
We will see your answer come this next year when Boston plays Miami. Based on how "unfair" it is and based on your prediction, they shouldn't win any part of the games against them since 3 old guys are inferior to 3 young guys.[/QUOTE]
Well I said blowouts against many teams and very little losses against others. So I don't know how that translates into the Celtics never winning any games against them this year in the regular season. You're wildly exaggerating what I said. I would think Miami will do no worse than tie them in regular season match ups vs them, and that's against a top 4 team in the East.

Furthermore, the main point was comparing whether the Big 3 coming to Boston was equivalent to the Big 3 in Miami. Your claims as to how well Boston can play against them as a team does not further your argument about the Big 3 in 07 being = to the Big 3 in 10.

next quote:
Again, you're quoting someone else as me.
 
You know, I think we are looking at the beginning of the new era.

CP3 wanting out (although he wanted out a couple years ago also) and you can bet Melo is going to be leaving Denver. These young superstars are not afraid to voice their opinion and bolt if the door isnt swinging both ways.

Now you can look at this from lots of angles, young guys lack loyalty etc etc, they dont have respect for the game but I think people forget how little control over their own careers pro sports athletes have. Injury, being traded, being cut, being underpaid (this is insane in NFL) and also lets not play that bullshit card of, "wah wah wah they are earning millions to play a game.."

This is a very crude business theory but for ever dollar you pay someone they should be earning you 2 or 3. LBJ makes cartoon bags of money but dont forget he is earning everyone around him an even bigger bag of monopoly money. None of these crying cavs fans were complaining when they opened the LBJ shoe string shop. Or when their bars were packed every night and jerseys where flying out the door.

I respect that these guys are saying, no, unless you do your part in building me a team I am going to a place that will. There are so many bullshit owners throughout sports who are just collecting paychecks off everyones back and I am glad that the superstars are finally giving the finger to these fat cats and leaving.
 
[quote name='J7.']I must have missed the memo where stats don't mean anything (worst stats for the Big 3 since their rookie years) and highlight videos from youtube users are the real say. :roll: Or that still being able to hit 3's or throw an elbow is what matters in determining players physical condition and overall ability. So now we've gone from "they're not past their prime" to "past their prime or not..."
[/QUOTE]

It's called sarcasm. All these guys are still in their prime. Their offensive points output are down as they now have to share the ball. Outside of Allen prior to the Celtics, both Pierce and Garnett did not really have a true second option so they took their teams where they could by themselves; hence their high points output. All these players still rock 35+ minutes/game unlike other older players "past their prime" such as Shaq (23 min). All the youtube clips were from this past season. It showed off (with the exception of KG) that these guys still play with intensity. Ray Allen's 3 pt game set a Finals record at his "old" age. If you look at most of the shots, he was fairly open i.e. able to run the floor real well. In addition, their point output is even further down with the emergence of Rondo, who gets his points, as well as Perkins, who gets alot of open looks due to his man getting pulled off by either Rondo or Pierce.

Dude I was not the person who posted this:
Click to expand...
Good work Mr. Watson!
:roll: It was used in response to your post.

Well I said blowouts against many teams and very little losses against others. So I don't know how that translates into the Celtics never winning any games against them this year in the regular season. You're wildly exaggerating what I said. I would think Miami will do no worse than tie them in regular season match ups vs them, and that's against a top 4 team in the East.
Click to expand...
Sounds like you are backing out of your words. So are you now saying that Miami will set NBA records for most wins in a season next year since you said "little losses"? My personal feelings is that Miami ends up 3rd in the East.

Furthermore, the main point was comparing whether the Big 3 coming to Boston was equivalent to the Big 3 in Miami. Your claims as to how well Boston can play against them as a team does not further your argument about the Big 3 in 07 being = to the Big 3 in 10.
Click to expand...
Yes it does. Actually the old Big 3 was/is better. This is why. Those guys had been in the league longer at the peak of the career and knew their teams weren't getting better. They knew that wanted to win a championship. These guys checked their egos way prior to them joining together. Yes, Pierce still has an ego but at the same time he checks it at the door with his team when he steps on the court. Wade/Bosh/Lebron haven't checked their egos. Wade really is the only guy but he is also 3 years older and truly played college ball. Bosh paraded around during free agency when everyone or at least I knew the guy was coming to Miami. In addition, he had a film crew following him in his journey. Lebron, on the other hand, creates a show every night by "chalk clapping" and "taking pictures". In addition, he created an hour long special on a 30 second decision. So 2 of 3 guys with egos. Yes, I do believe Lebron will end playing more as a PG but I don't know how Bosh will handle not being the big dog and that is where the disconnect I feel will happen (at least for a year or two before they give up their egos).

next quote:
Again, you're quoting someone else as me.
Click to expand...

There are other people that post in the forum but thanks for the heads up! :applause:
 
[quote name='Soodmeg']You know, I think we are looking at the beginning of the new era.

CP3 wanting out (although he wanted out a couple years ago also) and you can bet Melo is going to be leaving Denver. These young superstars are not afraid to voice their opinion and bolt if the door isnt swinging both ways.

Now you can look at this from lots of angles, young guys lack loyalty etc etc, they dont have respect for the game but I think people forget how little control over their own careers pro sports athletes have. Injury, being traded, being cut, being underpaid (this is insane in NFL) and also lets not play that bullshit card of, "wah wah wah they are earning millions to play a game.."

This is a very crude business theory but for ever dollar you pay someone they should be earning you 2 or 3. LBJ makes cartoon bags of money but dont forget he is earning everyone around him an even bigger bag of monopoly money. None of these crying cavs fans were complaining when they opened the LBJ shoe string shop. Or when their bars were packed every night and jerseys where flying out the door.

I respect that these guys are saying, no, unless you do your part in building me a team I am going to a place that will. There are so many bullshit owners throughout sports who are just collecting paychecks off everyones back and I am glad that the superstars are finally giving the finger to these fat cats and leaving.[/QUOTE]

It's because we have been in this era a couple years earlier. It is all about the superstar. It's why some teams screwed themselves over hoping for one player to join their team vs building a team for team unity. The only thing I disagree with you on is these guys being underpaid. These guys are overpaid. They are playing something they love to do. The bench warmers make more than 3-4 times than a teacher or fire fighter per year. I don't feel sorry for them at all. It's why owners are almost dropping like flies in the NBA right now. They can't afford to pay these guys since they are not bringing in the revenue.
 
[quote name='lordopus99']
Good work Mr. Watson!
:roll: It was used in response to your post.
[/QUOTE]

I think what he meant was, you quoted me and changed my name to his name.
 
[quote name='Soodmeg']You know, I think we are looking at the beginning of the new era.

CP3 wanting out (although he wanted out a couple years ago also) and you can bet Melo is going to be leaving Denver. These young superstars are not afraid to voice their opinion and bolt if the door isnt swinging both ways.

Now you can look at this from lots of angles, young guys lack loyalty etc etc, they dont have respect for the game but I think people forget how little control over their own careers pro sports athletes have. Injury, being traded, being cut, being underpaid (this is insane in NFL) and also lets not play that bullshit card of, "wah wah wah they are earning millions to play a game.."

This is a very crude business theory but for ever dollar you pay someone they should be earning you 2 or 3. LBJ makes cartoon bags of money but dont forget he is earning everyone around him an even bigger bag of monopoly money. None of these crying cavs fans were complaining when they opened the LBJ shoe string shop. Or when their bars were packed every night and jerseys where flying out the door.

I respect that these guys are saying, no, unless you do your part in building me a team I am going to a place that will. There are so many bullshit owners throughout sports who are just collecting paychecks off everyones back and I am glad that the superstars are finally giving the finger to these fat cats and leaving.[/QUOTE]

I have no problem with CP3 wanting out because the 2nd best player on the team is his back-up.

Only problem I have with CP3, is he's turning into LeBron's minion.

Just have an independent thought for once Chris.
 
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