April NPD Numbers

[quote name='daroga']The avilbility of PS3s make its launch and the 360 launch hard to compare. Really, none of the three systems are apples-to-apples, because of different launch years, avilability, and prices. If every system launched the same month and had all cost $300, that would be easy to compare, but it's hard to judge a $600 console's launch in 2006 with a $400 console launch in 2005, especially when one was readily available everywhere and one wasn't.[/QUOTE]

It is hard to compare a $400/$600 system, as well as one where availability varied wildly between the two. Nevertheless, the PS3 has kept pace with the 360 on the "graph of controversy," which is, IMO, the most interesting measure. Now, there is a drop off from March to April for the PS3, showing that its sales are slowing when the 360's began to pick up. As a result, it is absolutely necessary for Sony to release a blockbuster title in the next 4-8 weeks. I don't know if any are coming (can Ninja Gaiden Sigma be counted in that category? If not, then the next big PS3-only title is Lair, and I don't know if anyone knows when that is coming out for certain).

I think it's truly hard to say that sales are software driven - and this may be somewhat controversial to say, but it may only work in one direction. IOW, the lack of numerous exclusives make the PS3 a tough pill to swallow at $600, however the Wii doesn't really offer a lot of unique games either that are worth the price of admission (outside of Zelda and Paper Mario, two postponed GC titles, really, is there anything "must have" for the Wii?). The price of admission is far lower, however, at $250, so it's much easier to deal with a lack of releases. I think low price and novelty are selling the Wii right now, much more so than games. On the other hand, the PS3 lacks that novelty (unless BR is a novelty), and has a far higher entry point.

I wonder how the introduction of the 360 Elite will impact sales over the next few months. Since it's closer to the PS3 in price, MS put themselves in a precarious position - if Sony drops the PS3 price to $500, the Elite looks really fucking weak by comparison; moreover, the $400 360 seems more of a "middle" or "lesser" product because a better option exists.

Lastly, where the hell are these numbers taken from? The overall sales numbers are really low? Is this only the US? Is it global? Are some retailers omitted from these data? Are they merely predictive, or are they accurate within a certain percentage? What's NPD's methodology? The sales numbers for all three systems seem lower than what other sources claim, making me wonder about the reliability and validity of these claims.
 
[quote name='daroga']I wonder how close the Wii is to the edge of that supply/demand line. How many more per week need to show up in stores before they finally reach a decent "in-stock" status around most of the country?
.[/QUOTE]

Probably through the rest of the year. At my store people still call for them left and right, and since Nintendo still isn't pumping these out like nothing it will be a long haul. Then come October/November people will be buying them for XMas... leaving us with the rest of May, June, July, August and September. Yeah, they will be selling like crazy till ATLEAST January of next year.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']

Lastly, where the hell are these numbers taken from? The overall sales numbers are really low? Is this only the US? Is it global? Are some retailers omitted from these data? Are they merely predictive, or are they accurate within a certain percentage? What's NPD's methodology? The sales numbers for all three systems seem lower than what other sources claim, making me wonder about the reliability and validity of these claims.[/QUOTE]

The largest video game retailer in the world Wal-Mart is not included.
 
[quote name='rodeojones903']The largest video game retailer in the world Wal-Mart is not included.[/QUOTE]

I thought so (but does that make them US-only numbers?).

Wal-Mart covers an interesting cross-section of consumers, and estimates charge that 20-25% of all retail exchanges in the US happen in a Wal-Mart (that's frightening, but not very surprising at the same time).

I don't think you could say, then, "multiply these numbers to include the extra 20 or so percent," because you would falsely assume that WM shopping mimics the rest of the country. While I think a large cross-section of Americans do shop at WM *and* other stores, you do have people who exclusively shop at WM (which is a far-less occurring phenomenon in other stores). Whether it's for price, purpose, or availability (think of those towns where there *is* nothing but a WM), it does happen.

I was suspect of the NPD numbers, and for a good reason. Now, any number of arguments could be made that show what the trend lines would look like if you include WM into the equation. Where does the Wii end up? Does the PS3 drop get larger, smaller, or stay the same? Was the Xbox 360 launch a lot different than these lines suggest? There are a lot of questions that remain unanswered b/c of incomplete data. The trends are still interesting (don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater), but I don't think they can be generalized to quite the degree of certainty many people seem to think they can be. If I omitted 20% of the population when performing a public opinion survey of the president, for example, the results would be telling, but not conclusive (I'd have an *enormous* margin of error, in other words). See what I'm saying?

[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']The GBA is just a benchmark line that represents "not so good". Thats all.[/QUOTE]

I think it's a benchmark that grandmas like to shop for their grandkids still. ;)
 
[quote name='Apossum']it's also slipping where the 360 began to take off-- the obvious difference being that 360s became more available around that time and got Oblivion and other games.[/QUOTE]
That would be a good point if it were actually supported by the numbers. ;)

Look at the graph on the first page with the numbers since the 360's launch. It's a fairly linear progression until the holiday 06 season and after that spike, it's resumed its usual monthly clip.
 
[quote name='torifile']That would be a good point if it were actually supported by the numbers. ;)

Look at the graph on the first page with the numbers since the 360's launch. It's a fairly linear progression until the holiday 06 season and after that spike, it's resumed its usual monthly clip.[/QUOTE]


I'm not sure what you mean. I'm talking about the last graph-- the launch comparison. The 360 and PS3 start splitting in March, then in April they go opposite ways.
 
If I omitted 20% of the population when performing a public opinion survey of the president, for example, the results would be telling, but not conclusive (I'd have an *enormous* margin of error, in other words). See what I'm saying?
Click to expand...
Well, technically, all opinion polls omit large portions of the population, but the sampling error is generally low because of the randomness of the sample. That is, it can be assumed that a representative cross-section of the population has been sampled.

In this case, an entire class of sales were cut out, rendering one of the assumptions of sampling false. So any conclusions to be drawn are based on bad data. An analogous situation would be if we asked only people in New York what their opinion of the preznit is and said it is representative of the country's attitude.

Sorry for the digression. :)
 
[quote name='rodeojones903']The largest video game retailer in the world Wal-Mart is not included.[/quote]Unless I'm mistaken, they estimate Walmart's numbers. That's hardly ideal, I understand, but that data isn't completely absent either.

Unless they stopped doing that (or never did, and I'm just completely stupid), in which case, as myke says, we have a large, diverse cross-section of potential game buyers missing.
 
[quote name='Apossum']I'm not sure what you mean. I'm talking about the last graph-- the launch comparison. The 360 and PS3 start splitting in March, then in April they go opposite ways.[/QUOTE]
I see what you're saying now. Sorry about that. I thought you were saying that the 360's sales began to take off at it's six-month birthday, chronologically speaking. That is, I thought you were saying "when the 360 turned 6 months old, it's sales started to pick up while the PS3 started to slump".

There is, however, a difference that is meaningful in their trajectories; namely that the PS3 is slumping now relative to launch and the 360 stayed pretty linear.
 
The market continues to tell MS/Sony they are not ready for HD(read: $400-600) gaming.

At least Sony didn't make some absurd claim like "the playstation brand beat out the Wii this month"

In their defense, nothing exceptional came out on either platform this month, but who's fault is that? The PS3 numbers are shocking, and if things keep up this way, they are going to be 3rd. Looking at last christmas numbers, even if they duplicate those, Wii is still going to have momentum kept from launch, and PS3 is basically starting over with hype/momentum at this point.

Sony's got a long road ahead of them, and it's obvious that shiny graphics and blu ray aren't pulling their weight alone.

They're really between a rock and a hard place, sales continue to fall at the current price, yet they can't really afford a price drop or guarantee that one will improve their situation. Microsoft is in a much better situation to drop the price around september for Halo 3/GTA time and have an excellent christmas.

Nintendo has the most comfortable position, with actual demand being generated at their current price. Anytime demand falls off or MS/Sony approaches their price, that $200 price is immediately available.

I don't see what could stop Nintendo this generation.. I'm sure people will tell me it's just a matter of time, as always. How many more months until the Wii eclipses the 360's lead?
 
I think its a fallacy to assume these trends will continue for the rest of this gen. I hear people saying things like 'the Wii will be the #1 console by the end of the year', or 'The PS3 has insured 3rd place for itself'

I think PS3 sales will begin increase over time based on a number of factors.

- Increased penetration of HDTV's into peoples homes
- Lowered Cost
- Increased acceptance of BR disc technology
- AAA game titles
- Decreasing interest in the PS2 and its games

Now all that may take another few years, but at this point no one can say the PS3 is a failure, only that its having a slow start. Of course, if one or more of those factors dont come to pass, the ps3 may indeed be doomed. ;) But I doubt it.


Dont forget that GTA IV is coming in October. That is a system selling game if there ever was one, and should sell a few milliion 360's and PS3's.
 
[quote name='Puffa469']Dont forget that GTA IV is coming in October. That is a system selling game if there ever was one, and should sell a few milliion 360's and PS3's.[/quote]I'm interested to see what sales do with that. Are there a lot of people that will want Sony's excusives and GTAIV so will just hold out till GTA hits and pick a PS3 up then? Will people that want to play that game and don't own wither generally just opt for the cheaper system? Will the Halo 3 hype drive people who may be on the fence towards the 360?
 
[quote name='Puffa469']I think its a fallacy to assume these trends will continue for the rest of this gen. I hear people saying things like 'the Wii will be the #1 console by the end of the year', or 'The PS3 has insured 3rd place for itself'

I think PS3 sales will begin increase over time based on a number of factors.

- Increased penetration of HDTV's into peoples homes
- Lowered Cost
- Increased acceptance of BR disc technology
- AAA game titles
- Decreasing interest in the PS2 and its games

Now all that may take another few years, but at this point no one can say the PS3 is a failure, only that its having a slow start. Of course, if one or more of those factors dont come to pass, the ps3 may indeed be doomed. ;) But I doubt it.

Dont forget that GTA IV is coming in October. That is a system selling game if there ever was one, and should sell a few milliion 360's and PS3's.[/QUOTE]

I do agree that in the long term the PS3 has some good factors but...

The 360 will continue to be: cheaper to make and sell for less.
GTA will be almost identical on each platform. Spend $400 or $600?
Blu-Ray is off to a good start because of the PS3 but...DVD will still be king for quite some time.
The 360 is also an HD console and will cost less.

Now Sony can show its muscle with AAA games but they need them sooner rather than later.

I don't think the PS3 will fail it just won't be as successful as the PS2.

I think if these numbers show anything COST is the major factor when it comes to what consumers will buy.
 
[quote name='daroga']I'm interested to see what sales do with that. Are there a lot of people that will want Sony's excusives and GTAIV so will just hold out till GTA hits and pick a PS3 up then? Will people that want to play that game and don't own wither generally just opt for the cheaper system? Will the Halo 3 hype drive people who may be on the fence towards the 360?[/quote]

I don't think GTA4 is going to drive PS3 sales much at all. Sure, GTA is a system seller, but buying a PS2 for GTA (as was the case in the past) is a helluva lot easier to swallow than dropping $660 to play one game.

As you stated, there is also the Halo 3 factor. Non-360 owners can spend $520 to get a 360 and two of the most anticipated games of the year. There is also the fact that 360 owners know how the DLC content for GTA4 is going to be handled (although obviously not the price) but no one has any idea how Sony is going to handle the DLC for GTA4. Considering the way the Oblivion DLC content couldn't be ported to the PS3 because of memory issues, I would be wary.

I'm going to get a PS3 when the price drops to reasonable level which I guess is $400 (although I'd rather wait until $300 - but that could be 2009) since eventually Sony is going to have a killer list of games - just like the PS2.
 
[quote name='dallow']Why do you keep comparing sales between a sub-$60 handheld and a $600 console?[/QUOTE]
Because every other next-gen console sold better than the GBA.

[quote name='jkam']I think if these numbers show anything COST is the major factor when it comes to what consumers will buy.[/QUOTE]
Definitely, and it's much more obvious when you look on the Wii side than anything else.
 
Shamelessly stolen from other forums:

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[quote name='jkam']
I don't think the PS3 will fail it just won't be as successful as the PS2.
[/quote]


Now that I agree with 100%.


I think Japan will be another factor in the PS3 equation. We all know the 360 is DOA in Japan, and nothing will change that. The question is wether or not the PS3 will do well over there. Times are changing in Japan, and people are playing games on their phones and DS's. Even when they play console games, they play RPG's, which you dont really need alot of horsepower for.

In the last gen, the thing that made the ps2>Xbox for me was the vast wealth of Japanese games that got translated and brought to US shores. I think if the PS3 get big in Japan, those games will come here, and the PS3 will have an edge over the 360 in terms of RPGs and quirky Japanese games.

If the PS3 fails in Japan, then that helps out the 360 over here HUGE. Cos then they really are the same system, except the 360 is cheaper. And like you said, its a cost thang.
 
I dont think there is really such a thing as long term, slow growth momentum or at least historically.

You either have enough momentum in the short to medium term to carry you through to the end, or you dont and things fizzle.

Whoever has more robust momentum out the gate is going to get developer support, and things shift FROM the party with the slower one. For the most part, the bulk of a game's sales is in the first few weeks. Slow hardware growth isnt as attractive.

For example, the President of IGDA Japan had recently issued a statement regarding developers shifting resources towards Wii.
 
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']For example, the President of IGDA Japan had recently issued a statement regarding developers shifting resources towards Wii.[/quote]

My favorite comment from that NeoGAF thread was the guy who said "Well gaming had a good run."
 
[quote name='DJSteel']since the PS3 launch:

USA and Japan:
360 - 2,866,357
PS3 - 2,153,453[/quote]

Thats hardly fair, since 360 in both the U.S. and Japan is not significantly different from just the U.S on its own.
 
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']I dont think there is really such a thing as long term, slow growth momentum or at least historically.

You either have enough momentum in the short to medium term to carry you through to the end, or you dont and things fizzle.

Whoever has more robust momentum out the gate is going to get developer support, and things shift FROM the party with the slower one. For the most part, the bulk of a game's sales is in the first few weeks. Slow hardware growth isnt as attractive.

For example, the President of IGDA Japan had recently issued a statement regarding developers shifting resources towards Wii.[/QUOTE]
In a way you're right, but you're also very wrong.

The PS3 had more momentum out of the gate than the 360, and yet here, with the 360 having a whole year and a half to fizzle, it still sold remarkably better than the PS3 in April.

While you do need a bit of momentum out of the gate, both the PS3 and the 360 had enough momentum. Now they can pick things up occasionaly with big games (Halo 3, etc), price drops, marketing (especially holiday season), and new system editions (Elite).

The first month a console comes out will not necessarily be its best month for sales, that fact alone slightly contradicts your post.


[quote name='DJSteel']since the PS3 launch:

USA and Japan:
360 - 2,866,357
PS3 - 2,153,453[/QUOTE]
Wow! That's INCLUDING Japan. And then take into account the fact that the PS3 had that big "launch" momentum to push it. Not looking too great for the PS3.

Imagine what will happen once Halo 3 drops and then once the 360 price drops. And we're just talking sales here, not even getting into how much bigger the 360's lineup is of games, how MS is actualy proffiting off of each 360 sale now, etc.


[quote name='dallow']My favorite comment from that NeoGAF thread was the guy who said "Well gaming had a good run."[/QUOTE]
:lol: That's actually a really good quote. I'm hoping that the Wii turns out like the DS. If you'll remember, the DS had (and still does have) some pretty fucking aweful gimicky titles at launch. But it sold well, and now we're seeing some great titles on it.

Now, if traditional console gaming (gamepad, high-power graphics, online play, PS3 & 360 style) goes the way of the PSP, then we sure as hell have reason to be scared, but right now I don't see the Wii cutting into traditional "videogaming".

Though honestly, I am a bit worried.
 
I still don't buy the HDTV argument at all. I guarantee you the average gamer - even the so-called hardcore sector - doesn't connect the two. It's like you people think they plop down $3k for a new tv and instantly think "Hot damn it is time for some Little Big Planet."

It doesn't work that way. And right now it certainly isn't, and I'm really curious why so many people think it's magically going to in the future. I mean I could be wrong one that, but I don't think the graphics are going to progress much further than where they've already gotten (see Gears of War), and if that isn't enough to propel the gaming populace to multiple their investments in this hobby, then I'm failing to see what is. Maybe a barrage of titles down the pipeline? I guess. But that's a hard pill to digest when I think I've already had half a dozen.

Secondly, I hope all you Sony apologists - should this come to pass - have a better retort than "well the PS3 isn't as successful as the PS2 and that's ok." That was the same bitch line you stuck Nintendo fans with forever once it was certain that the N64 wouldn't trump SNES or PS1 sales. Yeah, it sells 35 million or so worldwide (or did last I heard), but that was still considered a failure, despite pulling in nice profits.

So if we reach a similar situation, I hope you can take it. Because evidence so far hasn't shown me that Sony fans can take all the bullshit they've dished out for the last two generations.

Dallow, I know you think that quote is cute and all, but that's showing some serious mental deficiency. Primarily because you're the same type of guy that will turn around and say "some of the best games ever were on the PS2, and it still maintains a good stream of titles despite being last gen."

If that's the case, you're just running around in circles trying to grab your own dick, but failing to do so the majority of the time.
 
[quote name='PyroGamer']
Imagine what will happen once Halo 3 drops and then once the 360 price drops. And we're just talking sales here, not even getting into how much bigger the 360's lineup is of games, how MS is actualy proffiting off of each 360 sale now, etc.[/quote]

That is about the time Heavenly Sword and some other big names drop for the PS3.. I figure it will about even in that regard..
 
[quote name='DJSteel']That is about the time Heavenly Sword and some other big names drop for the PS3.. I figure it will about even in that regard..[/QUOTE]
Somehow I don't see Heavenly Sword at quite the same blockbuster system-selling status as Halo 3... not sure why.

[quote name='Strell']I still don't buy the...... *snip*[/QUOTE]
Show me a traditional videogame-style game on the Wii, with good controls, and I'll show you a game that would have been better served on the 360.

There is tons and tons and tons of stuff that has not yet been done on the consoles, not just graphics-wise. There are epic, amazing projects that videogaming has not seen yet. Videogaming is still riddiculously young, the best storytelling in videogames is laughably poor when compared to other mediums. We've only scratched the surface concerning the amazing immersion capabilities of videogames. Adding in some motion-sensing controller and a bunch of mini-games to appeal to non-gamers isn't how we're going to propel traditional videogaming forward.



I want epic. I want to accomplish something huge, and feel like a hero. I want big-budget. I want emotional stories. I want to feel urgency, stress, elation, joy, sadness, laughter, hatred.

I want to feel like I do when I listen to an epic score of music, with trumpets and a full string section, and french horns calling out heroicly, and a full choir singing out in chorus. I want to feel like I do when I watch a great film. I want the unlimited potential our medium has to be realized.

The Wii has will not only NOT help me realize these goals, but it's not even aiming for these goals.



There's plenty of reasons you might want a Wii, I have one, so obviously I had my reasons. But it simply isn't aiming for that level of greatness I envision videogames acheiving. If the Wii starts cutting into traditional gaming, and the PS3 and 360 in particular, that might be good for the head honchos and CEOs at Nintendo, but that's bad for "gamers."
 
[quote name='PyroGamer']
:lol: That's actually a really good quote. I'm hoping that the Wii turns out like the DS. If you'll remember, the DS had (and still does have) some pretty fucking aweful gimicky titles at launch. But it sold well, and now we're seeing some great titles on it.

Now, if traditional console gaming (gamepad, high-power graphics, online play, PS3 & 360 style) goes the way of the PSP, then we sure as hell have reason to be scared, but right now I don't see the Wii cutting into traditional "videogaming".

Though honestly, I am a bit worried.[/QUOTE]

You know why the DS had some awful gimmicky titles at launch, with a few really good titles from some developers? Because no one, especially not developers and publishers, gave the DS a chance - but once it started selling like hotcakes, all of these companies started going "Oh wow, shit, the DS is sure selling out quick, if we make a quality game on it the market penetration is huge! It will sell great! We better get on it!". Then you focus to a year later, and you're seeing tons and tons of high quality games for the DS.

I can almost guarantee that Dragon Quest 9 was, at one point, probably a next gen game, and SquareEnix said "Hey, look at all these people that have a DS, we could have A LOT better sales if we switched it to the DS".

The same thing is happening to the Wii - most developers didn't take it seriously, nobody can really blame them after N64 / GC, but now that the Wii is selling so strongly you're seeing companies like EA saying "We didn't expect the Wii to do so well and have now shifted a ton of focus onto making games for it".

Making these games takes time, especially when you come into the game late, so I can imagine that this time next year we'll be playing some fantastic games on the Wii, similar to that of the DS.

I also imagine in the future not everyone will try and shoehorn Wii specific features into their games, similar to how a lot of developer's aren't forcing DS specific features into their games where it doesn't fit.

If the Wii keeps on trucking as a dominant force, it will set itself up in a very similar position to that of the DS, no doubt. And the Wii is selling without very many "must have" titles - just imagine when stuff like Metroid Prime 3 and Smash Brothers Brawl come out? Hell, I'll even bet that Pokemon Battle Revolution in June is going to sell like crazy and push even more Wii's, just based on the Pokemon numbers above for Diamond / Pearl.

It probably costs signficantly less to develop on the Wii, and the opp. is there for developers to make a lot more money, so I figure in a year or two we're going to see some big name franchises on the Wii, and not just spinoff's.
 
[quote name='PyroGamer']Somehow I don't see Heavenly Sword at quite the same blockbuster system-selling status as Halo 3... not sure why.
[/quote]

what about that and Ratchet and Clank in the same month..
 
[quote name='DJSteel']what about that and Ratchet and Clank in the same month..[/QUOTE]

Halo 3 is in a world of its own, PS3 could have 20 big name titles the same day Halo 3 could hit and it still won't make a dent.

Halo is in an elite club along with World of Warcraft, Madden, and GTA (the only other three games that could even come close to touching it sales wise).
 
[quote name='PyroGamer']
If the Wii starts cutting into traditional gaming, and the PS3 and 360 in particular, that might be good for the head honchos and CEOs at Nintendo, but that's bad for "gamers."[/QUOTE]

What a notoriously bad argument, based on less than 6 months of a system being on the ground, that Roufuss has pretty much handled already, so I'll just point you in the direction of his post. --^

Besides, if it takes all of that to make you feel like a big man, then I have a hard time understanding how gaming at all could appeal to you, because I've run into very, very few games that approach that kind of epic immersion you seem to be thirsting for. You don't even find that shit in movies 99% of the time.

Why not just sell me your system for fifty bucks. It's pretty clear you don't give a shit about it, so I might as well give it to a friend who really wants one.
 
The only one I agree with is AAA titles. Games sell game machines. Like Strell pointed out, people don't magically want a PS3 after they've shelled out for an HDTV. Besides, they can still opt for a 360, so you can't assume that all of those people will be PS3 customers. The lowered cost will help, but as other people have pointed out 360 and Wii will both drop in price when that happens. Acceptance of BR technology has nothing to do with acceptance of PS3. I can't imagine anyone saying, 'I really want to play Resistance, but I just don't trust that new-fangled Blu-Ray technology yet'. And if you are referring to Blu-Ray as a movie format, the person can just as easily buy a $300 HD-DVD player, so again, you can't assume that all of those people will be PS3 customers. This is one area where Sony has more trouble with PS3 than with PS2, because they are not only battling alternative game machines, but also alternative movie formats. I think your argument about increasing acceptance of Blu-Ray tech would only be valid if that was the only choice for an HD movie experience. And decreasing interest in PS2 and its games again does not mean that those people will automatically move to PS3 because of cost and lack of must-have titles. PS3 needs more AAA titles--and some exclusives. That is the only thing that can "save" Sony's dominance in the market. Anything else and they can hope for a tie at best.


[quote name='Puffa469']I think its a fallacy to assume these trends will continue for the rest of this gen. I hear people saying things like 'the Wii will be the #1 console by the end of the year', or 'The PS3 has insured 3rd place for itself'

I think PS3 sales will begin increase over time based on a number of factors.

- Increased penetration of HDTV's into peoples homes
- Lowered Cost
- Increased acceptance of BR disc technology
- AAA game titles
- Decreasing interest in the PS2 and its games

Now all that may take another few years, but at this point no one can say the PS3 is a failure, only that its having a slow start. Of course, if one or more of those factors dont come to pass, the ps3 may indeed be doomed. ;) But I doubt it.


Dont forget that GTA IV is coming in October. That is a system selling game if there ever was one, and should sell a few milliion 360's and PS3's.[/quote]
 
[quote name='soonersfan60']The only one I agree with is AAA titles. Games sell game machines. Like Strell pointed out, people don't magically want a PS3 after they've shelled out for an HDTV. Besides, they can still opt for a 360, so you can't assume that all of those people will be PS3 customers. The lowered cost will help, but as other people have pointed out 360 and Wii will both drop in price when that happens. Acceptance of BR technology has nothing to do with acceptance of PS3. I can't imagine anyone saying, 'I really want to play Resistance, but I just don't trust that new-fangled Blu-Ray technology yet'. And if you are referring to Blu-Ray as a movie format, the person can just as easily buy a $300 HD-DVD player, so again, you can't assume that all of those people will be PS3 customers. This is one area where Sony has more trouble with PS3 than with PS2, because they are not only battling alternative game machines, but also alternative movie formats. I think your argument about increasing acceptance of Blu-Ray tech would only be valid if that was the only choice for an HD movie experience. And decreasing interest in PS2 and its games again does not mean that those people will automatically move to PS3 because of cost and lack of must-have titles. PS3 needs more AAA titles--and some exclusives. That is the only thing that can "save" Sony's dominance in the market. Anything else and they can hope for a tie at best.[/quote]

360 won't drop in price until after the Halo 3 craze declines...
 
Sony is also not only competing against Microsoft and Nintendo with the PS3, but to an extent, themselves with the PS2.

PS2 still has awesome games coming out for it, and awesome games are getting cheaper (Lego Star Wars 2, for instance), so yea, it makes sense for people to save $500 and still got a very quality, awesome game machine.

When the 360 / Wii came out, the Xbox / Gamecube were pretty much dead. The PS2 is still a viable option for many people because it not only gets ports of the big name games still, but it's also getting the niche games for the hardcore. Most people, myself included, don't see a reason yet to upgrade to the PS3 when the PS2 keeps providing awesome games at far cheaper prices.

Unfortunately for Sony, the awesome games for PS2 don't really seem like they are going to let up, and when they do, you've got things like God of War 2 and Rogue Galaxy probably going GH, so there are two more very awesome AAA games you can get for $20 a piece on a $130 system.

Nintendo was actually really smart for canning Super Paper Mario on the Cube, and moving it to the Wii. Why compete with yourself if you don't have to?
 
Whoa whoa whoa Strell.

I just thought it was funny how the guy felt gaming was now over that the Wii had "won".

I'll play anything. HD or not.
 
[quote name='daroga']I wonder how close the Wii is to the edge of that supply/demand line. How many more per week need to show up in stores before they finally reach a decent "in-stock" status around most of the country?
[/QUOTE]

Completely anecdotal, but I think the Wii may be approaching that point, at least temporarily (until the Fall when it probably becomes scarce again approaching Christmas). My local Fred Meyer store had 6 of them in the case late Sunday night. Now they most likely got those in Saturday AM when they opened, or at the latest, Sunday AM. Point is, they were there all of at least one day on the weekend if not two days. This is an area where up till last month or so these wouldn't have made it past 9am the day they came in.

Granted, when I went in there Wednesday they were all sold. So clearly they will still sell fairly quickly, but this is the first sign I've seen that it might be possible for the casual shopper to find a Wii in store. Keep in mind that Nintendo has YET to hit that demographic, despite all the whining on CAG that "casual"/"non-gamer" types are buying Wiis. That may be true in some cases but my point is that they haven't been available except to those who are actively looking for them. Once they become available as impluse buys they'll have a whole new segment of people buying them ;). And then people can *really* bemoan the "death of gaming" :rofl:.

(Backing up Strell here - EVEN if you buy the argument that epic games are not possible on the Wii, the 360 and/or PS3 aren't going anywhere - one or both of those will be successful ENOUGH, no matter how well the Wii does. Oh, and besides, the argument that you can't have epic games on the Wii is utter horseshit).
 
i agree again with Roufuss product planning so that GoW 2 would have released on the ps3 along with FF XII would have changed a lot..
 
[quote name='PyroGamer']I want epic. I want to accomplish something huge, and feel like a hero. I want big-budget. I want emotional stories. I want to feel urgency, stress, elation, joy, sadness, laughter, hatred.

I want to feel like I do when I listen to an epic score of music, with trumpets and a full string section, and french horns calling out heroicly, and a full choir singing out in chorus. I want to feel like I do when I watch a great film. I want the unlimited potential our medium has to be realized.

The Wii has will not only NOT help me realize these goals, but it's not even aiming for these goals.[/quote]I have to completely disagree with you. I've had a lot of great highs from games, but the highest came in December of last year. [Zelday Spoiler]
Taking the final down thrust on Ganon I was literally off the couch thrusting the remote down towards the floor. I was not in my apartment in Michigan; I was freaking saving Hyrule.

I'm 24 years old, married. I don't pretend to be the most mature person in the world, but I don't live my life in fantasties like we used to when we were kids, but that game completely captivated me. No, the game would not have been half as enthralling on the 360 (or the Gamecube for that matter). Would it have been a bad game? Not at all. But the motion controls, done well, made that game live for me.

Sure, there's going to be a metric ton of mini game crap and tacked on controls that don't work properly. But is that any different than every other system out there? You get 10-25 AAA games for a system, a good bunch of decent games, and the rest is just atrocious. The Wii propses a learning curve--not only what to do but how to do it. Develoeprs need to figure out when motion controls will work and when they won't.

A traditional game might be ideal for the Wii rather than the 360 as well. Why? The cost factor the Roufuss mentioned. If a game has to spend a ton of money on using the 360's power to the point that projected has to be aborted or never given a chance, what a shame. But if there's a team with a vision grander than what PSN/XBLA/Wii Ware platforms will allow, but without the resources to develop on the 360/PS3, you've just found a traditional game better suited for the Wii than an HD powerhouse.

As Strell said, you can't judge a console's library of games by the first six months.
 
[quote name='DJSteel']i agree again with Roufuss product planning so that GoW 2 would have released on the ps3 along with FF XII would have changed a lot..[/QUOTE]

I mean, on one hand, I gotta appalud Sony for keeping the PS2 going, I'm definitely grateful, but I wonder how things would have been different if God of War 2 suddenly went PS3 exclusive, they upped the graphics, and thrown it out there in the launch window?

Probably wouldn't have changed much, but it is interesting to think about.

Daroga, use [ spoiler] and [ /spoiler] to spoiler tag something, without the spaces.
 
[quote name='DJSteel']360 won't drop in price until after the Halo 3 craze declines...[/quote]

That may be true, unless Sony does a price drop first. I wonder what would happen if Sony tried a price drop right at the time as Halo is released? My guess is that it wouldn't increase PS3 sales that much, and they would look like they are in even worse shape than they are now.
 
You know what trend I wish would come back? Bundle in a damn game with the system, I hate the fact that they just did away with that for no reason.

The higher costs would be slightly easier to swallow if Microsoft / Sony bundled a game in with the system, and I don't just mean Hexic.

Getting Wii Sports with the Wii was great, reminds me of happier times when I was a kid. I could swallow $600 for a PS3 a little easier if, say, Resistance came packed into it.
 
[quote name='Roufuss']You know why the DS had some awful gimmicky titles at launch, with a few really good titles from some developers? Because no one, especially not developers and publishers, gave the DS a chance - but once it started selling like hotcakes, all of these companies started going "Oh wow, shit, the DS is sure selling out quick, if we make a quality game on it the market penetration is huge! It will sell great! We better get on it!". Then you focus to a year later, and you're seeing tons and tons of high quality games for the DS.

I can almost guarantee that Dragon Quest 9 was, at one point, probably a next gen game, and SquareEnix said "Hey, look at all these people that have a DS, we could have A LOT better sales if we switched it to the DS".

The same thing is happening to the Wii - most developers didn't take it seriously, nobody can really blame them after N64 / GC, but now that the Wii is selling so strongly you're seeing companies like EA saying "We didn't expect the Wii to do so well and have now shifted a ton of focus onto making games for it".

Making these games takes time, especially when you come into the game late, so I can imagine that this time next year we'll be playing some fantastic games on the Wii, similar to that of the DS.

I also imagine in the future not everyone will try and shoehorn Wii specific features into their games, similar to how a lot of developer's aren't forcing DS specific features into their games where it doesn't fit.

If the Wii keeps on trucking as a dominant force, it will set itself up in a very similar position to that of the DS, no doubt. And the Wii is selling without very many "must have" titles - just imagine when stuff like Metroid Prime 3 and Smash Brothers Brawl come out? Hell, I'll even bet that Pokemon Battle Revolution in June is going to sell like crazy and push even more Wii's, just based on the Pokemon numbers above for Diamond / Pearl.

It probably costs signficantly less to develop on the Wii, and the opp. is there for developers to make a lot more money, so I figure in a year or two we're going to see some big name franchises on the Wii, and not just spinoff's.[/QUOTE]
Yes, but I loved the DS from day one, and that epic immersion stuff I'm talking about is not what I want out of a portable gaming console. What I want out of a portable gaming console is exactly what I expected from the DS, and what I

And what the fuck? Not give the DS a chance? I can understand the argument that people don't take the Wii seriously because of the GC, but wait...? Ever heard of the GBA???

I don't want, expect, or anticipate epic immersion on a 2" screen. That's not what I want a portable gaming system for. And that's not what I want my Wii for either.

I want fun party games, RPGs, Nintendo-style games, Pikmen 3, and DS fare on my Wii.

I want epic, immersive, exciting fantastic titles on my 360 and PS3. I also expect great multiplayer experiences on the 360.

So far I've been well satisfied with the progress of the 360 in terms of immersion and storyling and intense videogaming, and I've been well satisfied with the great multiplayer experiences I expected. I don't have a PS3 yet so I can't comment. The Wii has started scratching the surface of what I expect, but I won't be really satisfied until Mario Galaxy, Smash Bros and Metroid land by the end of this year.


My point is simple: if the type of game the Wii offers becomes the norm, and the success of the Wii means the non-success of the 360 and PS3 and the type of game they offer, then that's bad. That's bad for videogaming as a whole.

Now personally, like I've already said, I don't see that happening. I see the Wii and the PS3 and the 360 (or at least the Wii and either the 360 or the PS3) peacfully co-existing, and each satisfying my expectations for each.

[quote name='Strell']What a notoriously bad argument, based on less than 6 months of a system being on the ground, that Roufuss has pretty much handled already, so I'll just point you in the direction of his post. --^

Besides, if it takes all of that to make you feel like a big man, then I have a hard time understanding how gaming at all could appeal to you, because I've run into very, very few games that approach that kind of epic immersion you seem to be thirsting for. You don't even find that shit in movies 99% of the time.

Why not just sell me your system for fifty bucks. It's pretty clear you don't give a shit about it, so I might as well give it to a friend who really wants one.[/QUOTE]
Worthless tripe. This is the dumbest, most nonsensical post I've read from you. You're usually a half decent poster, but this shit isn't even worth replying to. Besides, my response to Roufuss up above (who actually offered me a good post to respond to), pretty much covers this one to.

[quote name='DJSteel']You mean Brute Farce never gave you that Pyro??[/QUOTE]
Don't know what you're talking about. I thought Brute Force was utter shite from the moment it was announced.
 
[quote name='Roufuss']Daroga, use [ spoiler] and [ /spoiler] to spoiler tag something, without the spaces.[/quote]Yeah, I know. I didn't want to ruin the train of thought with a poiler tag, but I will. ;)
 
[quote name='Roufuss']You know what trend I wish would come back? Bundle in a damn game with the system, I hate the fact that they just did away with that for no reason.

The higher costs would be slightly easier to swallow if Microsoft / Sony bundled a game in with the system, and I don't just mean Hexic.

Getting Wii Sports with the Wii was great, reminds me of happier times when I was a kid. I could swallow $600 for a PS3 a little easier if, say, Resistance came packed into it.[/QUOTE]
Wii sports is the first title to be bundled with a Nintendo console since... the NES.

After that, the 360 DOES bundle games in the package. NFS:MW and Madden have both had the treatment. Not sure if any others have followd. And they have been doing that since like before last holiday season.

As for the PS3, it fucking just came out.
 
[quote name='PyroGamer']Wii sports is the first title to be bundled with a Nintendo console since... the NES.[/quote]The SNES had Mario World, the Game Boy had Tetris. Eventually the N64 and GAmecube each had packins with Donkey Kong 64, Mario Parties, Double Dash, etc.

But it is something that needs to start happening, right from the get go, and be contstant through out a console's life.
 
[quote name='PyroGamer']
And what the fuck? Not give the DS a chance? I can understand the argument that people don't take the Wii seriously because of the GC, but are you batshit insane? Ever heard of the motherfucking GBA???
[/quote]

Yea, I heard of the GBA, but when the DS was first announced, even Nintendo themselves didn't think it would sell - see all the interviews where they called it a "pillar" how "this is not the successor to the GBA", and how many many many people, be it gamers, reviewers, magazines, developers, everyone thought the DS was a batshit insane idea and that it would never fly.

IIRC, the DS had no big name support when it came out, it had the usual Nintendo titles and a bunch of garbage third party software because no one knew what to make of it, no one knew what would work and what wouldn't work.

But once they started selling DS's, and started selling a TON of DS's, then you saw the waves and waves of product announcements for it. Then you saw the quality third party games like Final Fantasy 3, everything from Capcom and Konami, and others being released. Then you saw the big announcements like Dragon Quest 9, FF 4 Remake, an FF 12 spinoff, when before SE seemed like they wanted nothing to do with the system.

The DS is a wild departure from the GBA, and not many people thought it would work - many people thought the PSP was going to be a sure thing, and would absolutely kill the DS... this isn't just the GBA 2 we're talking about here.

You can see this pattern being mimiced almost *identically* with the Wii, so much so that I'm surprised it took so many developers by surprise. The Wii is announced, almost everyone thinks it won't work and it won't sell, but it sells a truckload and now companies are backpedaling a shit ton to get decent product on the Wii because it is so successful.

I really don't get where you're coming from when you talk about "the type of gaming the Wii symbolizes", and you keep bringing up party games. So far I've got games like Twilight Princess, Super Paper Mario, Trauma Center, Godfather, SSX Blur, Sonic and the Secret Rings... none of these are "minigames" , and if the type of game the Wii offers is a fun, awesome, good experience, I'm all for it. You seem to be latching on to the very few party games, some which existed long before the Wii (Warioware and Mario Party), and trying to make an argument that this is all the Wii is good for and if the Wii is successful, all we'll be seeing are games like those, when that's not even the case NOW and it certaintly isn't the case in the future. For every "minigame" game, I can name five upcoming games that aren't like that at all.

Like Daroga said, Twilight Princess is exciting, immersive, and epic, very much so, and I have to imagine Metroid Prime 3 will be the same. So will Fire Emblem. The Wii has only been out six months, so to predict it's future and what it brings to the table just in those six months is a bit crazy.

That's almost like someone saying that the future of the PS3 is nothing but rushed 360 ports, when that obviously isn't true either.
 
[quote name='PyroGamer']
Worthless tripe. This is the dumbest, most nonsensical post I've read from you. You're usually a half decent poster, but this shit isn't even worth replying to.
[/QUOTE]

Yes yes. So when can I give you the fifty bucks for your Wii and ask you to stfu?
 
[quote name='Strell']Yes yes. So when can I give you the fifty bucks for your Wii and ask you to stfu?[/QUOTE]
I'LL PAY U 50 BUCKS TO TAKE MINE Ps3 RULES IT DOENT HAVE KIDDY GAMES!!1111
 
[quote name='Friend of Sonic']I'LL PAY U 50 BUCKS TO TAKE MINE Ps3 RULES IT DOENT HAVE KIDDY GAMES!!1111[/QUOTE]

TO THE BEE MOBILE
 
Who's surprised by the PS3 numbers? All that came out in April was Enchanted Arms, F.E.A.R., and a few days of Spider-Man 3. Now those are system sellers right there.
 
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