Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill

Is Bob's first observation talking about the census? Who was defending the gov't and what was it in reference to?
I think Bob has nothing in his second point. The fact is private business does have workings in the gov't. I don't advocate a boycott but if the system is there (and nothing can be done ATM to change it) then they are trying to exploit that to get the change they need.
I think Bob has a coolstory in his thirdpoint.
 
Of course he is, because asking the question on the census is exactly like stopping someone for no reason and asking the same thing.

THEY ARE EXACTLY THE SAME.

:wall:
 
Asking a question is asking a question. Groups of people are groups of people.

War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is strength.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']IATCG, you do realize that there are Sharia law courts in the UK, right?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article4749183.ece

If you despise Hispanics, you'll hate Muslims.

In the very least, an English-Spanish dictionary and a 2nd grade grasp of the Roman alphabet can help you translate most words back into the greatest of all languages in the world, English.

Those dirty Muzzies? They're not even using the Roman alphabet.[/QUOTE]
The thing is MANY of the Spanish words are easily translated back into English, but it's the point that I don't want to bother translating.

As far as Muslims go, I have no opinion on them one way or the other.
 
[quote name='JolietJake']Of course he is, because asking the question on the census is exactly like stopping someone for no reason and asking the same thing.

THEY ARE EXACTLY THE SAME.

:wall:[/QUOTE]

Huh, I guess the law must of had a few typos, or the governor of arizona lied, because I thought the police could NOT just stop people on the street for no reason. I thought the police could only ask it if the person was being investigated for another violation or offense.

Oh wait nevermind you just conviently leave that part out.
 
[quote name='IAmTheCheapestGamer']The thing is MANY of the Spanish words are easily translated back into English, but it's the point that I don't want to bother translating.

As far as Muslims go, I have no opinion on them one way or the other.[/QUOTE]

Probably because you never met any, I'm sure once you do, you'll have strong opinions.
 
[quote name='xycury']Probably because you never met any, I'm sure once you do, you'll have strong opinions.[/QUOTE]

Yea, some go to the college I'm at. Some of the nicest people when you get to know them. Really friendly.
 
[quote name='Knoell']Huh, I guess the law must of had a few typos, or the governor of arizona lied, because I thought the police could NOT just stop people on the street for no reason. I thought the police could only ask it if the person was being investigated for another violation or offense.

Oh wait nevermind you just conviently leave that part out.[/QUOTE]
Oh hey, looks like you were jay walking there, let me see your papers.

I didn't leave shit out, i just know the reality of the situation.
 
Knoell has a ton of faith in the language of the law. He has a ton of faith that the cops will read it and enforce it word for word. I'm sorry I don't have a lot of faith that all the cops in AZ will do that. I'm sure the majority of them will. Again, I'm just worried about the Joe Arpaio clones in the police force. Small minority, but thats what all this uproar is about, I think.

I guess I'm just a man who doesn't have a lot of faith. McCain supporters said we shouldn't tax the rich because they provide jobs. I don't have that much faith in those rich people.
notastarman
reaganomics.jpg
 
[quote name='xycury']Probably because you never met any, I'm sure once you do, you'll have strong opinions.[/QUOTE]
Actually, now that I think about it, I did know at least one Muslim. My one ex gf's one uncle was a Muslim and he was one the nicest people I've ever met actually.
 
He was just getting you to lower your defenses. He will jihad you when you least expect it by using a machete and chopping off your tiny balls.
 
[quote name='IRHari']He was just getting you to lower your defenses. He will jihad you when you least expect it by using a machete and chopping off your tiny balls.[/QUOTE]

Hey now. You must've been standing next to Strell at my window when he was peeing in order to base his El Hoardo character on me to know that.;)
 
[quote name='IRHari']Knoell has a ton of faith in the language of the law. He has a ton of faith that the cops will read it and enforce it word for word.[/QUOTE]

So, what you're saying, is that even though there are rules and laws in place to protect the government from abusing the power we've given them, they will abuse it anyway? Because I can agree with that.

Similarly, there are rules and laws in place in regards to how my private information is to be handled by the Federal Government. Do I think every Post Office employee that comes across some ACS forms is going to open them up and use the data in a way that could be harmful to me? No. But it just takes one. Do I think every government agency is out to get my personal data? No - just like I don't believe the Department of Transportation had any interest in the whereabouts of Japanese-Americans in the 40's.

[quote name='IRHari']I think Bob has nothing in his second point. The fact is private business does have workings in the gov't. I don't advocate a boycott but if the system is there (and nothing can be done ATM to change it) then they are trying to exploit that to get the change they need.[/QUOTE]

They are trying to take advantage of something that they don't believe is right just because they think they can get an outcome that is something they do like. There's a big word that starts with the letter "H" that comes to mind here.

[quote name='JolietJake']Of course he is, because asking the question on the census is exactly like stopping someone for no reason and asking the same thing.[/quote]

No reason? Really? Can you provide anything in the law that allows for an officer of the law to stop someone for no reason and ask them for proof of citizenship? Can you provide any reliable news source where someone has been stopped for no reason because of this new law (has it even went into effect yet?)? Or are you just making stuff up to support your view point?
 
[quote name='UncleBob']They are trying to take advantage of something that they don't believe is right just because they think they can get an outcome that is something they do like. There's a big word that starts with the letter "H" that comes to mind here.[/QUOTE]

Oooh I know! The word is Holyshitthatsthedefinitionofboycott.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']I saw this article: http://www.truthout.org/behind-the-...-gop-game-to-swipe-the-november-election58877

Any thoughts on the law being used to keep white power in place?[/QUOTE]

Ha good article, was that on the onion or something? The two things are unrelated seeing as how legal immigrants will not be arrested. And again arrests wont happen unless the police are investigating the person for another crime or offense, in which THEN they will be able to ask for papers. The police could NOT just stop people on the street for no reason.
 
[quote name='JolietJake']Oh hey, looks like you were jay walking there, let me see your papers.

I didn't leave shit out, i just know the reality of the situation.[/QUOTE]

Again racist police officers were just waiting for this law to pass so they can chase down hispanics!

The reality is that of a police officer is going to be racist, he was already being racist and potentially hassling hispanics beforehand so this law changes nothing.
 
[quote name='IRHari']Knoell has a ton of faith in the language of the law. He has a ton of faith that the cops will read it and enforce it word for word. I'm sorry I don't have a lot of faith that all the cops in AZ will do that. I'm sure the majority of them will. Again, I'm just worried about the Joe Arpaio clones in the police force. Small minority, but thats what all this uproar is about, I think.

I guess I'm just a man who doesn't have a lot of faith. McCain supporters said we shouldn't tax the rich because they provide jobs. I don't have that much faith in those rich people.
[/QUOTE]

Like I said to jolietjake, that small minority is already being racist, if thats your only problem with this law, then why not provide a provision in the law that if a citizen gets questioned for papers and arrested by itself, without committing any other offense, violation, or crime, they can sue the state? Oh wait they did...
 
I have a question, if Arizona did checkpoints much like the DUI checkpoints all over the country in which you must produce ID to the officer, would you all be happy? They would be screening EVERYONE not just hispanics who came down that major street for identification and immigration papers. This means there would be no discrimination, or racial profiling so would you be ok with that?
 
[quote name='UncleBob']So, what you're saying, is that even though there are rules and laws in place to protect the government from abusing the power we've given them, they will abuse it anyway? Because I can agree with that.

Similarly, there are rules and laws in place in regards to how my private information is to be handled by the Federal Government. Do I think every Post Office employee that comes across some ACS forms is going to open them up and use the data in a way that could be harmful to me? No. But it just takes one. Do I think every government agency is out to get my personal data? No - just like I don't believe the Department of Transportation had any interest in the whereabouts of Japanese-Americans in the 40's.



They are trying to take advantage of something that they don't believe is right just because they think they can get an outcome that is something they do like. There's a big word that starts with the letter "H" that comes to mind here.



No reason? Really? Can you provide anything in the law that allows for an officer of the law to stop someone for no reason and ask them for proof of citizenship? Can you provide any reliable news source where someone has been stopped for no reason because of this new law (has it even went into effect yet?)? Or are you just making stuff up to support your view point?[/QUOTE]
For fuck sake, they don't have to suspect you of murder to stop you. "Oh you dropped some trash, that's littering, let me see your papers." The police have been stopping people for bullshit reason since the inception of the police force, this just gives them another reason to do it.

Don't you people get it? The police aren't fucking saints. You all seem to have a lot more faith in the police than i ever will. Which seems kind of strange since they're run by the government, the very thing you all seem to rally against.
 
[quote name='Knoell']Again racist police officers were just waiting for this law to pass so they can chase down hispanics!

The reality is that of a police officer is going to be racist, he was already being racist and potentially hassling hispanics beforehand so this law changes nothing.[/QUOTE]
Well considering that before they couldn't enforce immigration laws and now they basically can, i'd say that changes something.
 
I'm still trying to figure out when people realize that the borders can't realistically be secured without dropping billions and taking a decade or so to build. That they don't see the irony in only wanting one on the south border is just cake.

You guys want a Great Wall of America, but you don't want to pay for it, but you want to complain about it, but you don't want to do the work on your own, but you'd hire illegals to build it if it ever did get built, which it won't because it will cost billions that you know our government doesn't have, but you'll complain about that anyway UNTIL it starts to get built at which point you'll whine about the cost, at which point we'll hire a shitty contractor who will screw it up anyway, but it won't be a 200 foot wall with gun turrets, etc etc etc...

Merry go round of Hell up ins here.

Can't please all the people some of the time, and now all those people want to be unpleased all the time.
 
[quote name='JolietJake']Well considering that before they couldn't enforce immigration laws and now they basically can, i'd say that changes something.[/QUOTE]


Think about what you just said.
 
[quote name='Strell']I'm still trying to figure out when people realize that the borders can't realistically be secured without dropping billions and taking a decade or so to build. That they don't see the irony in only wanting one on the south border is just cake.

You guys want a Great Wall of America, but you don't want to pay for it, but you want to complain about it, but you don't want to do the work on your own, but you'd hire illegals to build it if it ever did get built, which it won't because it will cost billions that you know our government doesn't have, but you'll complain about that anyway UNTIL it starts to get built at which point you'll whine about the cost, at which point we'll hire a shitty contractor who will screw it up anyway, but it won't be a 200 foot wall with gun turrets, etc etc etc...

Merry go round of Hell up ins here.

Can't please all the people some of the time, and now all those people want to be unpleased all the time.[/QUOTE]

Not that you will see this, but Ill say it anyway

It may be pricey to secure the borders but a simple way to start is to deploy the military at the borders. And secondly the reason not many people care about the canadian side is because the vast majority of illegal immigration comes from the south.
 
[quote name='Knoell']Think about what you just said.[/QUOTE]
You really drive me up the damn wall, you know that? You know exactly what i mean, but instead you somehow think it proves some sort of convoluted point that i assume you're trying to make.

Their local police force couldn't enforce federal immigration law, wtf is so hard to understand about that? It's that simple, nothing to look into, just exactly what i typed.

edit- Oh please, please let illegal immigration from Canada increase. I have to see the reaction to a bunch of illegal Canadians.
 
[quote name='Knoell']Not that you will see this, but Ill say it anyway

It may be pricey to secure the borders but a simple way to start is to deploy the military at the borders. And secondly the reason not many people care about the canadian side is because the vast majority of illegal immigration comes from the south.[/QUOTE]

oh oh oh, is this going to be like that hands across the world where they all hold hands... except you would place them at the border with guns?
 
[quote name='Strell']I'm still trying to figure out when people realize that the borders can't realistically be secured without dropping billions and taking a decade or so to build. That they don't see the irony in only wanting one on the south border is just cake.

You guys want a Great Wall of America, but you don't want to pay for it, but you want to complain about it, but you don't want to do the work on your own, but you'd hire illegals to build it if it ever did get built, which it won't because it will cost billions that you know our government doesn't have, but you'll complain about that anyway UNTIL it starts to get built at which point you'll whine about the cost, at which point we'll hire a shitty contractor who will screw it up anyway, but it won't be a 200 foot wall with gun turrets, etc etc etc...

Merry go round of Hell up ins here.

Can't please all the people some of the time, and now all those people want to be unpleased all the time.[/QUOTE]

We spend several times what it would cost to make a nice wall on our overextended military every year. This presents two pretty good options:

1)Cut military spending and use some of that money to build high tech borders.

or

2) Reallocate many military bases to just be stationed on or near the border. If we must have so many troops on active duty doing almost nothing but playing Xbox and looking scary on other people's borders, lets at least just move them and have them doing nothing where we have a more immediate need - our own border.
 
Walls don't really work that well at keeping people out, just ask the Chinese. I guess we could build one anyway, it doesn't really address the problem, but it would at least shut up the teabaggers for a little while, that is until they find something else to bitch about.

"What is this "real problem" you speak about?"

Simple, people come here illegally for a chance at a better life, something they can't get back home. Help their government improve the standard of living at home, suddenly they don't need to come here anymore for a better life. Which is why we don't have an "illegal Canadian" problem, because Canada isn't a bad place to live in the first place.
 
[quote name='JolietJake']Walls don't really work that well at keeping people out, just ask the Chinese. I guess we could build one anyway, it doesn't really address the problem, but it would at least shut up the teabaggers for a little while, that is until they find something else to bitch about.

"What is this "real problem" you speak about?"

Simple, people come here illegally for a chance at a better life, something they can't get back home. Help their government improve the standard of living at home, suddenly they don't need to come here anymore for a better life. Which is why we don't have an "illegal Canadian" problem, because Canada isn't a bad place to live in the first place.[/QUOTE]

The US admits more LEGAL immigrants than any other country in the world. Why can't they come legally? It can't be the money because Im fairly certain 1,130,000 people that come here legally arent just the ones that have money lol. Wait your fucking turn or break the law and get deported, it is their choice, and the illegals here made that choice.

What would you have us do with mexico? throw money at them?
 
[quote name='xycury']oh oh oh, is this going to be like that hands across the world where they all hold hands... except you would place them at the border with guns?[/QUOTE]

Our border agents already carry guns....the fact is the local and state governments arent capable of handling this sort of situation. The military is strongly suited to do this, and not to mention it would serve a dual purpose by giving them valuable training in desert conditions.
 
[quote name='JolietJake']Walls don't really work that well at keeping people out, just ask the Chinese. I guess we could build one anyway, it doesn't really address the problem, but it would at least shut up the teabaggers for a little while, that is until they find something else to bitch about.

"What is this "real problem" you speak about?"

Simple, people come here illegally for a chance at a better life, something they can't get back home. Help their government improve the standard of living at home, suddenly they don't need to come here anymore for a better life. Which is why we don't have an "illegal Canadian" problem, because Canada isn't a bad place to live in the first place.[/QUOTE]

Yeah you're right. Neon signs on the border every 5 miles that say "welcome" or "open" is a better,cheaper, idea, and at least then we aren't winking.

And when we eliminate the INS we'll save a bundle to.

Hell, build a free-to-ride train from Mexico City to El Passo, about the same price as a wall I bet.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']Yeah you're right. Neon signs on the border every 5 miles that says "welcome" or "open" is a better,cheaper, idea, and at least then we aren't winking.

And when we eliminate the INS we'll save a bundle to.[/QUOTE]

Cool deflections bro.

Because 1) we'd put up those signs when we're so busy doing the exact opposite in all our social and political discourse, and 2) because you guys trust a government run organization. Hell, you guys don't think military men can't be bought off? We can't even get them to not sexually assault themselves, let alone combatants. But hey - let's put a bunch of teens with guns on the border! Problem solved!

This is why it's hilarious to see all the doubletalk.
 
[quote name='Strell']Cool deflections bro.

Because 1) we'd put up those signs when we're so busy doing the exact opposite in all our social and political discourse, and 2) because you guys trust a government run organization. Hell, you guys don't think military men can't be bought off? We can't even get them to not sexually assault themselves, let alone combatants. But hey - let's put a bunch of teens with guns on the border! Problem solved!

This is why it's hilarious to see all the doubletalk.[/QUOTE]

I really hate poorer military men. I have seen more drug dealers and gang members that are former military than I care to remember, and that always scared the shit out of me growing up. Hell the fact that today the bloods are in germany and the middle east scares the shit out of me. Sure there are some good enlisted men, but the only ones I have met in my life were crooked as hell.

Edit- no offense to currently enlisted and poor military men. Just saying my track record with ex's are strained to say the least.
 
lol "dont bother securing the border, someone will buy them off anyway" thats a priceless arguement there.

Lets not shut the front door at all, I mean someone could pay a locksmith for the key anyway.
 
[quote name='Knoell'] Think about what you just said.[/QUOTE]

The states now have the power to enforce what is a federal regulation. What JJ is absolutely true, states didn't have the power to enforce federal immigration laws, now they do.

Think before you type Knoell.
 
[quote name='Knoell']lol "dont bother securing the border, someone will buy them off anyway" thats a priceless arguement there.

Lets not shut the front door at all, I mean someone could pay a locksmith for the key anyway.[/QUOTE]
Wow you are awesome at taking a statement and extending it all the way out to the most insane position imaginable.
 
[quote name='cindersphere']Wow you are awesome at taking a statement and extending it all the way out to the most insane position imaginable.[/QUOTE]

How so? The border as it is now is admittedly open, the only thing slowing the steady flow of illegal immigration is the sucky economy.

[quote name='Strell']Cool deflections bro.

Because 1) we'd put up those signs when we're so busy doing the exact opposite in all our social and political discourse, and 2) because you guys trust a government run organization. Hell, you guys don't think military men can't be bought off? We can't even get them to not sexually assault themselves, let alone combatants. But hey - let's put a bunch of teens with guns on the border! Problem solved!

This is why it's hilarious to see all the doubletalk.[/QUOTE]
 
[quote name='IRHari']The states now have the power to enforce what is a federal regulation. What JJ is absolutely true, states didn't have the power to enforce federal immigration laws, now they do.

Think before you type Knoell.[/QUOTE]

Thats not what I was telling him to think about, but OK way to jump in to his defense lol.
 
[quote name='Knoell']How so? The border as it is now is admittedly open, the only thing slowing the steady flow of illegal immigration is the sucky economy.[/QUOTE]

So lets just forget about all the immigrants that die each year and are currently stopped at the border by our officials. Yeah thats not conductive to my point so I am going to completely abandon the real world and blame the fact that more mexicans are not here on the fact that the economy sucks.

Yeah Knoell believing that immigrants can cross the border illegally is the same as the border being open for immigrants is a bare bones way to look at immigration and does not add to it a ideological bent at all. I mean the way you make it out to be is that illegals can just mosey over the border, buy and car in the US and can then come and go as they please.

Knoell your logic is AWESOME.
 
[quote name='IRHari']Guys this is awesomely cool, I found a picture of IATCG watching tv:

SheepleUSA.jpg
[/QUOTE]
Actually I couldn't stand GWB one bit, but I'm softening on my views that Fox News is run by Satan thanks to their views on illegal immigrants/immigration.:applause:
 
[quote name='cindersphere']So lets just forget about all the immigrants that die each year and are currently stopped at the border by our officials. Yeah thats not conductive to my point so I am going to completely abandon the real world and blame the fact that more mexicans are not here on the fact that the economy sucks.

Yeah Knoell believing that immigrants can cross the border illegally is the same as the border being open for immigrants is a bare bones way to look at immigration and does not add to it a ideological bent at all. I mean the way you make it out to be is that illegals can just mosey over the border, buy and car in the US and can then come and go as they please.

Knoell your logic is AWESOME.[/QUOTE]

Are you kidding me? I think its pretty clear to everyone on either side that the current border situation is not even close to kind of stopping illegal immigration. The front door may not be open but the back door most certainly is lol. Look it up man the main reason illegal immigration has slowed is because of the economy.

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2009/02/24/Bad-economy-slows-illegal-immigration/UPI-42521235490860/
 
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