Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill

[quote name='SpazX']- That important? I don't think they're a drain on the economy.
- Yes
- No
- All of them? No.
- What kind of amnesty?
- Secure to what degree? Completely? Of course not. More than it is now? Probably, yeah, but not for free or with a big wall.[/QUOTE]

[quote name='docvinh']Well I guess I'll bite.
I believe they are somewhat important to the economy, yes.
I guess there should be tougher penalties, what are the current penalties?
I think the companies will survive without them, although I'm sure they'll have to raise prices on some items.
I'm still on the fence whether they should be deported or not, I liked thrusts' idea in this case, give them a path to citizenship, except for illegals with criminal records.
Build a bigger fence.[/QUOTE]


So would you be against the President securing the border with the military?

I think that we should give the current illegals (without criminal records) amnesty and a path to citizenship, AS LONG AS the border is secure so we don't end up in the same situation in 10 years.

The deportation of illegals would only be for the ones that do not come forward for citizenship, or have criminal records.

I also believe the economy, and businesses will survive without the cheap labor. It is a democrat talking point that says that the hospitality, landscaping etc industries would collapse if we started deporting illegals.

I also think that we should enforce more strict penalties on businesses that hire illegals. Businesses that complain they cant confirm identification are BSing.

Finally, I think we need to bring all of the illegals out in the open, and legitamately see what impact they are having on the economy, schools, public services, and so on. Everyone would benefit if we could account for these people.

Do you guys see what broke there? Securing the border. Securing the border is the key to dealing with this entire situation, and Clinton, Bush, and Obama simply wouldn't and won't do it.
 
[quote name='Knoell']So would you be against the President securing the border with the military?

I think that we should give the current illegals (without criminal records) amnesty and a path to citizenship, AS LONG AS the border is secure so we don't end up in the same situation in 10 years.

The deportation of illegals would only be for the ones that do not come forward for citizenship, or have criminal records.

I also believe the economy, and businesses will survive without the cheap labor. It is a democrat talking point that says that the hospitality, landscaping etc industries would collapse if we started deporting illegals.

I also think that we should enforce more strict penalties on businesses that hire illegals. Businesses that complain they cant confirm identification are BSing.

Finally, I think we need to bring all of the illegals out in the open, and legitamately see what impact they are having on the economy, schools, public services, and so on. Everyone would benefit if we could account for these people.

Do you guys see what broke there? Securing the border. Securing the border is the key to dealing with this entire situation, and Clinton, Bush, and Obama simply wouldn't and won't do it.[/QUOTE]

I'm not personally against securing the border, if they need to use the military to do it, that would be fine. My main issue has always been the immigration enforcement law, I don't think it's right, and I'll continue to say that. How come they didn't start with a law to increase the penalties to businesses to begin with, that would seem to make more sense to me.
 
[quote name='docvinh']I'm not personally against securing the border, if they need to use the military to do it, that would be fine. My main issue has always been the immigration enforcement law, I don't think it's right, and I'll continue to say that. How come they didn't start with a law to increase the penalties to businesses to begin with, that would seem to make more sense to me.[/QUOTE]

would you be happy with law if they enacted large penalties to businesses alongside it? If so, then blame the federal government for not acting.
 
[quote name='perdition(troy']just another reason to not be an automatic citizen if you're born anywhere on us soil.[/QUOTE]

Perditiontroyll strikes again!
 
[quote name='perdition(troy']just another reason to not be an automatic citizen if you're born anywhere on us soil.[/QUOTE]

Uhh, what exactly qualifies you to be an American citizen then?
 
Loving your country and hating everyone who doesn't conform EXACTLY to what you think your country that you love stands for.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']A) Being born to one.
B) Legally immigrating.[/QUOTE]

What if one parent is legal and the other is not? Does it depend if the mother is legal or not? I dunno, I can see what you're saying, but I'm not sure I necessarily agree with you. I know people are going to come in here and scream about "anchor babies" though.
 
[quote name='Strell']Loving your country and hating everyone who doesn't conform EXACTLY to what you think your country that you love stands for.[/QUOTE]

Being born on US soil to parents who are US citizens.

Going through the proper channels to become a legal US citizen.

Pretty much a rehash of what thrust wrote.
 
[quote name='docvinh']What if one parent is legal and the other is not? Does it depend if the mother is legal or not? I dunno, I can see what you're saying, but I'm not sure I necessarily agree with you. I know people are going to come in here and scream about "anchor babies" though.[/QUOTE]

Yeah if either parent is a citizen. In fact, I am ok with babies basically inheriting whatever their parents have, even if it's a green card.

You probably will need to have a paternal test if the mother is not legal. Otherwise craigslist will be full of "$10 and I'll claim I'm your kids baby!" ads. But, take it from me, a paternal test is far less painful and much cheaper than trying to get a green card.

We really do need to stop the "If only I can make it 20 more yards and squat this baby out we are home free!" shit though.
 
Not like anyone expects better but trotting out slavery to defend treating other brown people like subhumans is pretty low.
 
Anyone who believes that the founders of the country really thought that every man was created equal is naive. Hell not even all white men had equal rights, you had to own land to even vote for a while. Why? Because the rich land owners were afraid the poor people would vote to have the rich folk's land taken away from them.
 
[quote name='perdition(troy']just another reason to not be an automatic citizen if you're born anywhere on us soil.[/QUOTE]

Careful, you might be surprised when your future kids aren't smart enough to pass the citizenship test.


Also, I think Knoell is completely backwards. Libs aren't defending big business at all. We're defending the little guy that just wants to make a little money to feed his family.
 
[quote name='depascal22']Careful, you might be surprised when your future kids aren't smart enough to pass the citizenship test.


Also, I think Knoell is completely backwards. Libs aren't defending big business at all. We're defending the little guy that just wants to make a little money to feed his family.[/QUOTE]

? Ha, thats entertaining

Those unions must be really representing their people well!
 
[quote name='depascal22']Careful, you might be surprised when your future kids aren't smart enough to pass the citizenship test.


Also, I think Knoell is completely backwards. Libs aren't defending big business at all. We're defending the little guy that just wants to make a little money to feed his family.[/QUOTE]

I don't plan on moving to any other country, so I don't need to worry about them taking any citizenship tests. Thank you for your concern though.
 
[quote name='depascal22']Careful, you might be surprised when your future kids aren't smart enough to pass the citizenship test.


Also, I think Knoell is completely backwards. Libs aren't defending big business at all. We're defending the little guy that just wants to make a little money to feed his family.[/QUOTE]

Which is why libs usually just prefer to give it to them when it all possible.
 
[quote name='JolietJake']Anyone who believes that the founders of the country really thought that every man was created equal is naive. Hell not even all white men had equal rights, you had to own land to even vote for a while. Why? Because the rich land owners were afraid the poor people would vote to have the rich folk's land taken away from them.[/QUOTE]

Man, that would never happen, would it...
 
[quote name='Knoell']? Ha, thats entertaining

Those unions must be really representing their people well![/QUOTE]

Maybe if you were in a Union your hourly pay would make it into double digits.
 
[quote name='Msut77']Maybe if you were in a Union your hourly pay would make it into double digits.[/QUOTE]

yep and then go back into the single digits because of union dues
 
[quote name='Knoell']yep and then go back into the single digits because of union dues[/QUOTE]

If you continue to remain an unskilled worker with no education, you're probably right.
 
Speed, the comments on the article had this.

"Illinois / Chicago wins again.

You all do know that Dubya enacted a law that says any territory within 100 miles of a US border is a constitution-free zone, right? And guess what is considered a border? Lake Michigan."

When did that happen?
 
I don't remember seeing a law like that. I guess it's possible Bush could have signed an executive order that suspended Habeus for the purposes of confinement for terror suspects or something of that nature, but that's pure speculation.

I think it's just a lib being a douche.
 
The Military Commissions Act of 2006 suspended HC for all non citizens or something like that.

I hadn't heard of complete suspension of the Constitution near borders.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']If you continue to remain an unskilled worker with no education, you're probably right.[/QUOTE]

Sigh, I guessed you would all be in favor of unions as well. The fact that they force millions in union dues to buy politicians that will support them, not necessarily you, but the union is all fine and dandy.

By the way, I make more money and recieve real health benefits in my field than any union I know of had provided in any other company of the same field. Impossible right? A company couldn't just do that without being forced by a union right?
 
[quote name='Knoell']Sigh, I guessed you would all be in favor of unions as well. The fact that they force millions in union dues to buy politicians that will support them, not necessarily you, but the union is all fine and dandy.

By the way, I make more money and recieve real health benefits in my field than any union I know of had provided in any other company of the same field. Impossible right? A company couldn't just do that without being forced by a union right?[/QUOTE]

Unless you've received a wage increase since you started posting, you're making less than money than I did as a pizza delivery driver.

Personally, I don't like unions. It allows for far too many slobs to remain in the way of dedicated workers. Of course, many of those slobs remain due to nepotism and cronyism in "right to work" companies.

Additionally, I'm making about 1/3 of my father's wages. He doesn't know algebra and I have two college degrees and one of those required a minor in Math. I suppose that is the difference between being in an union and not.
 
[quote name='speedracer']Illinois held a Puerto Rican for 3 days over immigration status. Wheeeeeeeeeee!

Lulzer thought of the day: If he's a lighter shade of Puerto Rican with a name like Smith instead of Caraballo, does it even occur to them to think about immigration status?

http://gawker.com/5547572/lawmen-threaten-to-deport-puerto-rican-guy-to-mexico[/QUOTE]

Damn Arizona law. This would have never happened in Illinois if it weren't for this evil Arizona law that's forcing our law enforcement officials to profile.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']Unless you've received a wage increase since you started posting, you're making less than money than I did as a pizza delivery driver.

Personally, I don't like unions. It allows for far too many slobs to remain in the way of dedicated workers. Of course, many of those slobs remain due to nepotism and cronyism in "right to work" companies.

Additionally, I'm making about 1/3 of my father's wages. He doesn't know algebra and I have two college degrees and one of those required a minor in Math. I suppose that is the difference between being in an union and not.[/QUOTE]
Nice insult, not that how much I make compared to your prior sucky jobs was necessary, although you are a lucky guy to have been delivering pizza for that much. From my knowledge pizza delivery guys make minimum wage plus tips. I don't do anything special at my job, you could probably equate it to a white collar pizza delivery job.

So then it comes to this, if you agree unions are a bad thing in recent history, then why bother contradicting, and insulting me?
 
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[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']Unless you've received a wage increase since you started posting, you're making less than money than I did as a pizza delivery driver.

Personally, I don't like unions. It allows for far too many slobs to remain in the way of dedicated workers. Of course, many of those slobs remain due to nepotism and cronyism in "right to work" companies.

Additionally, I'm making about 1/3 of my father's wages. He doesn't know algebra and I have two college degrees and one of those required a minor in Math. I suppose that is the difference between being in an union and not.[/QUOTE]

Union membership correlates with higher wages, anecdotes aside I have never seen a study saying otherwise.
 
[quote name='Knoell']Nice insult, not that how much I make compared to your prior sucky jobs was necessary, although you are a lucky guy to have been delivering pizza for that much. From my knowledge pizza delivery guys make minimum wage plus tips. I don't do anything special at my job, you could probably equate it to a white collar pizza delivery job.

So then it comes to this, if you agree unions are a bad thing in recent history, then why bother contradicting, and insulting me?[/QUOTE]

You posted in one of your earlier posts that you're making around $20K. I made a little more than that when delivering pizzas before my daughter was born.

Other than allowing mediocrity to be contracted in, I don't see a lot of negatives for the average worker. The union can make things harder for companies, but companies are constantly looking for ways to screw their workers.

Ergo, my dad's union wages equal x and my nonunion wages equal 1/3 of x despite my much greater education, marketable skills and ambition.
 
[quote name='perdition(troy']I don't plan on moving to any other country, so I don't need to worry about them taking any citizenship tests. Thank you for your concern though.[/QUOTE]

You said it was another reason to be against automatic citizenship, right?

I'm talking about when the government takes the logical next step after they take away automatic citizenship. What's to stop them from requiring a test for your "Citizenship License" the minute you turn 18?

You conservatives will love it. It'll relegate the poor and uneducated to legal second class status without any protection from the Constitution at all.
 
[quote name='depascal22']You said it was another reason to be against automatic citizenship, right?

I'm talking about when the government takes the logical next step after they take away automatic citizenship. What's to stop them from requiring a test for your "Citizenship License" the minute you turn 18?

You conservatives will love it. It'll relegate the poor and uneducated to legal second class status without any protection from the Constitution at all.[/QUOTE]

If you honestly thought that was what my comment was talking about I don't know what to say to you.
 
perd, you once said it was perfectly alright with you to deny healthcare to the children of illegal immigrants.

I am sure depascal will apologize for offending your delicate sensibilities.
 
[quote name='Msut77']perd, you once said it was perfectly alright with you to deny healthcare to the children of illegal immigrants.
[/QUOTE]

I'm okay with this. If you want services come here legally. If your kid dies you have no one to blame but your self.
 
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