Black generally tip less.

[quote name='Allnatural']It's an inherently dangerous job, dealing with traffic, bad weather, scumbags that want to rob you...

Also, most places these days (the big chains anyway) are paying their drivers sub-minimum wages.[/QUOTE]

ehh... I suppose it depends on the location. Bad weather - okay (and I always throw in a buck extra (onto the normal tip) if the weather is crazy)... but traffic/robberies? Not in this area.

As for "Sub-minimum wage" - see the posts above...
 
[quote name='Allnatural']It's an inherently dangerous job, dealing with traffic, bad weather, scumbags that want to rob you...

Also, most places these days (the big chains anyway) are paying their drivers sub-minimum wages.[/QUOTE]

Fukc your anecdotes. I have an idea of what it's like and I'm sticking to it.
 
dangerous or not is a big variable. i used to live in an apt where the dude on the third floor was a manager of a pizza joint that wouldn't deliver to his own street (our street) due to the number of times his driver had been robbed (or attempted) before. but probably not the case in Bob's safe little rural white town. Worst crimes there, if I venture to guess, are (in order) weed, copper theft, and heroin/oxy abuse.

but if you're a delivery driver, you're paying for your *own* gas and putting miles on your *own* car. That's a good amount of cost, even if you only put out a couple hundred bucks for a beater as your work car, to avoid putting thousands of miles on your real auto.

That deserves a few bucks. Or are we all that selfish and lazy that we aren't appreciative that people WORK so we can sit on our fat, lazy fuckin' asses, only exerting energy to get off of our couch to open the door for the driver?

That's not hedonism, that's fuckin' narcissism, dude.

Tip your fuckin' driver or go pick it up yourself. It's part of the social contract.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']dangerous or not is a big variable. i used to live in an apt where the dude on the third floor was a manager of a pizza joint that wouldn't deliver to his own street (our street) due to the number of times his driver had been robbed (or attempted) before. but probably not the case in Bob's safe little rural white town. Worst crimes there, if I venture to guess, are (in order) weed, copper theft, and heroin/oxy abuse.

but if you're a delivery driver, you're paying for your *own* gas and putting miles on your *own* car. That's a good amount of cost, even if you only put out a couple hundred bucks for a beater as your work car, to avoid putting thousands of miles on your real auto.

That deserves a few bucks. Or are we all that selfish and lazy that we aren't appreciative that people WORK so we can sit on our fat, lazy fuckin' asses, only exerting energy to get off of our couch to open the door for the driver?

That's not hedonism, that's fuckin' narcissism, dude.

Tip your fuckin' driver or go pick it up yourself. It's part of the social contract.[/QUOTE]

I didn't know they had pizza delivery places when the social contract was made.
 
[quote name='cindersphere']I didn't know they had pizza delivery places when the social contract was made.[/QUOTE]
giga20rotfl5oz.gif


[quote name='mykevermin']Worst crimes there, if I venture to guess, are (in order) weed, copper theft, and heroin/oxy abuse.[/QUOTE]
This also deserves an honorable mention.

lollerskates.jpg
 
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Actually I'd wager meth abuse is worse than heroin in small rural areas, at least around here. Some of the biggest meth busts in the state have been about an hour or so NE of here in the sticks.

Yep, that had nothing to do with the topic. :p
 
[quote name='cindersphere']Let me ask you a question then, have you ever got help loading something in your car?[/quote]

Not that I can recall. I have never bought anything large as I've always had small cars, so any large purchases have to be delivered or ordered online.

Secondly, from personal experience helping raise my brother (yay 15 year gaps in births), incentives do not work that way.
Click to expand...

Social science/observation is always laws of averages. Nothing applies anywhere near 100% of the time and there are always exceptions to the rule.

On average I get much better service in restaurants than I do retail stores--despite it being the same general types of employess (i.e. mostly late teen to mid 20s types doing it as part time jobs).

I'd be shocked if there was anything other than the tip system that could explain a significant amount of the variation in service.

And if we're going to use anecdotes/personal experience, I mentioned my own already. I never did more than the bare minimum in retail jobs, manual labor jobs etc. I had in the past as they weren't careers so I didn't care about promotions and just wanted the pay check for a few months. I also waited tables a couple summers in grad school when I didn't have summer funding from my department, and I busted ass at those because there was direct and immediate financial incentive to going the extra mile. Almost without fail I made more money on shifts where I was in a good mood and going the extra mile than I did in days when I wasn't feeling well and not giving full effort.

The majority of people are present minded and most motivated by clear and immediate rewards. And a tipping system is great for that.

There are exceptions of course. Some have more far sighted goals and can work hard for longer-term pay offs. Others just have a good work ethic and always bust ass no matter what. And some are just worthless and lazy and never work hard even if there is immediate benefit to doing so.
 
Perhaps not, but it's right on target. Meth is a big problem around these 'ere parts.

As far as the wear-and-tear on the car - that's a known variable going into the deal. Where as tips are not. If you take a delivery job thinking you're going to be rolling in tips and not have to worry about the wear-and-tear on the vehicle, then you're a moron.

Besides, there's only one pizza place here in town that delivers, they charge a $2 delivery fee and it goes straight to the driver. That very much pays for the 2,428.8 feet from the pizza place to my house.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']As far as the wear-and-tear on the car - that's a known variable going into the deal. Where as tips are not.[/quote]

disagree entirely. you've never worked pizza delivery before, have you? you get stiffed more than you would in table service, but 8+ out of every 10 people tip $2-3 easy.

You're taking things that are guarantees (wear and tear) and normative, but not guarantees (tips) and trying to treat the latter as a rare surprise that shouldn't be expected. Same as you were with table service. You're ignoring the norms that *every* server/driver takes to the job, norms reinforced by the significant, significant majority of people who use those services, and trying to flip them into some weird kind of exceptions to the rule.

Besides, there's only one pizza place here in town that delivers, they charge a $2 delivery fee and it goes straight to the driver. That very much pays for the 2,428.8 feet from the pizza place to my house.
Click to expand...

1) Yes, yours is the only house they deliver to. Ever. It makes perfect sense to view this fee through your myopia. :roll:
2) Do you know for a *fact* that this fee goes to the driver? As I've said before, I put years in food service in my past. Even though there were delivery fees, none of it went to the driver. And this was a fairly large regional chain. I know most customers fooled themselves into thinking that drivers made $100/night easy taking 50 trips at $2/per, but that was misguided, as, again, the fee went to the restaurant to cover overhead for their call center.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']
you get stiffed more than you would in table service, but 8+ out of every 10 people tip $2-3 easy.[/QUOTE]

Just curious. What percent of $2-3 tippers are actually 20% or more tips in your experience.?

I usually only order delivery pizza if it's like a $10 special or something, and usually tip $2-3 (on top of the $2-3 delivery fees these days) and figure that's fine since it's a 20-30% tip on a $10 pizza (and more if they get any of the delivery fee--one local place a student of mine works at they get half the fee--so $1 per delivery).

But I'd never tip less than 20% and up the amount if I happened to order a bunchy of pizza's for a party, or splurge on a specialty pizza that's not on promo etc.


Delivery fees that don't go to the driver at all are bullshit and really should be disallowed as all those lead to is drivers getting tipped less since customers are paying a delivery fee already. Give them at least half the fee, or don't charge one IMO.
 
0) Not trying to make them "exceptions" - trying to reinforce the fact that tips are gifts and therefore should not be expected. Show me any definition of tip or gratuity that doesn't in some way or another relate the concept to gift or present. You know who demands presents? Small children. As you grow up and mature, you begin to realize that gifts are not an obligation that one has towards you. However, that doesn't make it an "exception". My wife does not demand gifts on her birthday or our anniversaries... but it would be an exception if I didn't get her something. See the difference?

1) I never said a thing about the driver only having to deliver to my house. Doesn't change the fact that your claim regarding wear-and-tear and gas falls flat on its face in my case - which goes into the entire concept of expecting tips and why that doesn't make sense.

2) Unless the driver I spoke with was lying to me (not sure why he'd do that), yes, the delivery fee goes to the driver.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']dmaul - I think you messed that quote up...[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I'd bumped a multi quote button accidentally and deleted the wrong one when making my post. I fixed it now.
 
Oh, man. It's been a decade or longer since I delivered a pizza, but even then, orders would range from $7 or whatever the minimum was to $30 or so. Tips rarely corresponded to the price of the order (unless it was a huge order, like a business ordered 50+ pizzas for a company luncheon kind of thing), so it varied pretty wildly.

Never thought about delivery tips as a %, to be honest with you.

"your case" is not the case, Bob. Unless you live 2-thousand-and-whatever feet from every pizza place in the country, and you're the only person who orders delivery pizza, then you have to acknowledge that experiences do, in fact, vary. AspieBob.
 
So, on one hand, you're arguing that experiences vary. On the other hand, you're arguing that we should all conform to the social norms, individual experiences be damned.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']
Never thought about delivery tips as a %, to be honest with you.
[/QUOTE]

I've just assumed it should be 20% of the price just like restaurant service as I've never heard otherwise. *shrugs*

I don't get it often as I'm not a big pizza fan so I mainly just by a Digiorno or Freschetta to keep in the freezer for when I want a simple meal. Just about as good as the chain places, and most of the good local pizza joints don't deliver with one exception--and that place is just too pricy at like $24 for a large specialty pizza so I seldom eat there (as again I'm not a big pizza fan).
 
I can't speak for delivery drivers (that's something I've never done) - and, perhaps it's because I don't really feel that tipping is necessary for a delivery driver, but I've never really considered tipping drivers a percentage.

Unlike, say, a waitress who might have to make more trips if you have more food, more refills, etc., etc. your driver puts in virtually the same amount of work no matter what you order (unless, as Myke pointed out, it's a huge company function with 50+ pizzas or something). Unless there's abnormal weather conditions or such, I see nothing wrong with a flat fee tip for delivery drivers. But, obviously, I'm not the norm. :D
 
[quote name='UncleBob']So, on one hand, you're arguing that experiences vary. On the other hand, you're arguing that we should all conform to the social norms, individual experiences be damned.[/QUOTE]

I'm arguing that norms exist. Take wearing pants. People wear them. It would be quite odd if that norm disappeared tomorrow, wouldn't it?

That's not to say people all wear the same style, color, and cut of pants. And, amazingly, some wear jeans. Others wear skirts. Others still wear kilts. A few may opt out altogether and go live on a nudist colony.

Norms are expectations, but that doesn't mean they are unbreakable. Aspie.

EDIT: As it turned out, historically, the most common stiffs as a delivery driver were the HUGE orders. Primarily b/c they would order well in advance (even they knew if would be a dick move to put an order in for 50-70 pies at 11:30AM for a delivery 30-40 minutes later, how about those norms?), and they would have an account set up with the office, they would be billed later for their order. So some wage schmo would meet us at the gate and show us to where they needed to go, and then send us on our way, none the wiser. Since pizza delivery is a combination of the fine arts of negotiation and bullshittery (e.g., you see the Smiths placed an order - they're regulars, you've been there before, and you know they're a good tip - but your current run of tickets are not really in the same area as the Smiths, so how can you bullshit the other drivers into letting you take the Smith's order?), management had to get 2-3 dudes to take the big orders - one out of necessity (would you believe that Chevy Shitmobiles don't hold 50 pies?) and two, out of the need to share the misery (you taking the big order not only means a big stiff, but also missing out on the other orders drivers are taking, and collecting tips in the process).
 
Well, I'm not really sure there is a norm on how much people should tip delivery drivers in terms of how much they should tip. It seems the 20% isn't and standard as in dining out.

Just a norm that they should be tipped.

Same with valets, as another example. There's no money value to base it on, so I'm not sure how much to tip a valet. I just go with 2 or 3 bucks usually. But I have no idea if that's standard or not.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Norms are expectations, but that doesn't mean they are unbreakable. Aspie.[/QUOTE]

Really with the name-calling?

"I don't agree with your opinion, so I'm going to pick a mental defect and make fun of you based on it."

Quick, let's all go back to grade school...
 
Mental defect? Yeeeesh.

Maybe if you actually had a theory of mind and the ability to be flexible you wouldn't get called that.
 
[quote name='seanr1221']Mental defect? Yeeeesh.

Maybe if you actually had a theory of mind and the ability to be flexible you wouldn't get called that.[/QUOTE]
Some people are just happy in knowing they can otherwise be cheap and take comfort knowing they're in cheap enough company that the local pizzaria has to force people to tip their drivers a bare minimum to break even.
 
Except that I'm not cheap, do tip, and therefore your entire statement is based in ignorance. Congratulations.

PS: Forcing people to "tip" isn't a tip at all. It's a service charge - and that's something I'm perfectly okay with, so long as it is made clear to all parties involved.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']
PS: Forcing people to "tip" isn't a tip at all. It's a service charge - and that's something I'm perfectly okay with, so long as it is made clear to all parties involved.[/QUOTE]

Well, tips are still variable.

It's the norm to tip for good service, and to tip above the norm for great service.

But it's also understandable and acceptable to not tip for crappy service.

But again, that's trickier for things like delivery drivers, valets etc. where you don't have much interaction and aren't getting much one on one service.

So I actually think a system of delivery charges makes more sense than tips. Pick it up and you just pay for the food. Order it for delivery and pay a set delivery fee that the drivers get all off and thus make a higher wage and aren't dependent on tips.

Valets I don't know how to handle. Just pay them a good wage and make it truly "complementary" valet service rather than being tip based would be my preference I guess as there's very little service involved as I don't care about anything than them not damaging my car and not hiring crooks who copy keys, still shit out of the car etc. But I just dislike valets in general. Just have a damn self service parking lot or be near a public garage.
 
So, while we're on the subject of tipping - let me ask y'all (since we obviously have different opinions on the subject).

Myke and I go to two different eating places. We both order a burger, a side salad and a soda. We both get one refill, no dessert and pay with a debit card.
We both have decent servers. Friendly, speedy, the orders are correct and the refill comes quickly.

Myke's burger was $7, his salad was $5 and his soda was $3. My burger was $4, my salad was $2 and the soda was $1. So his order was $15, mine was $7.

If we go with the 20% tip idea, Myke would tip his server $3 and I would tip mine $1.40. Even though, in the situation I presented, both servers did the same amount of work with the same amount of effort.

Why should Myke's server get twice the tip? (besides "social norms" and such...)
 
[quote name='UncleBob']PS: Forcing people to "tip" isn't a tip at all. It's a service charge - and that's something I'm perfectly okay with, so long as it is made clear to all parties involved.[/QUOTE]

So you're in favor of socialism over the free market.

[quote name='seanr1221']I'm thinking ODD.[/QUOTE]

this is your area, hombre.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']Why should Myke's server get twice the tip? (besides "social norms" and such...)[/QUOTE]

so, besides the primary reason we should, why should we?

Yeah, that's the ticket.

I'm gonna go to dinner at Morton's and leave a fiver on the table. that'll go over real well.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']So you're in favor of socialism over the free market.[/QUOTE]

In some cases, yes.

In this case, Socialism would be like forcing everyone in town to pay a $2 fee, regardless if you choose to even eat at the place.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']so, besides the primary reason we should, why should we?

Yeah, that's the ticket.

I'm gonna go to dinner at Morton's and leave a fiver on the table. that'll go over real well.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I get it Myke - you believe the social norm is perfectly okay and should never be challenged or questioned. That's good. I guess I should have specified that question was more intended for dmaul and those who think tipping should be done as an incentive for good service and hard work.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']
2) Unless the driver I spoke with was lying to me (not sure why he'd do that), yes, the delivery fee goes to the driver.[/QUOTE]

uh thats one place with literally thousands of different pizza chains out there in the wild.

They dont all charge $2 and im sure they dont all give it to the driver if they do.

I mean sure there are the dominos, the pizza huts and the round tables out there but there are at least 5 localized pizza joints in my town alone.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']So, while we're on the subject of tipping - let me ask y'all (since we obviously have different opinions on the subject).

Myke and I go to two different eating places. We both order a burger, a side salad and a soda. We both get one refill, no dessert and pay with a debit card.
We both have decent servers. Friendly, speedy, the orders are correct and the refill comes quickly.

Myke's burger was $7, his salad was $5 and his soda was $3. My burger was $4, my salad was $2 and the soda was $1. So his order was $15, mine was $7.

If we go with the 20% tip idea, Myke would tip his server $3 and I would tip mine $1.40. Even though, in the situation I presented, both servers did the same amount of work with the same amount of effort.

Why should Myke's server get twice the tip? (besides "social norms" and such...)[/QUOTE]

Why does the top 1% of America own 40% of the wealth? Did thier work really result in 40% of the wealth generation?
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']Not that I can recall. I have never bought anything large as I've always had small cars, so any large purchases have to be delivered or ordered online.



Social science/observation is always laws of averages. Nothing applies anywhere near 100% of the time and there are always exceptions to the rule.

On average I get much better service in restaurants than I do retail stores--despite it being the same general types of employess (i.e. mostly late teen to mid 20s types doing it as part time jobs).

I'd be shocked if there was anything other than the tip system that could explain a significant amount of the variation in service.

And if we're going to use anecdotes/personal experience, I mentioned my own already. I never did more than the bare minimum in retail jobs, manual labor jobs etc. I had in the past as they weren't careers so I didn't care about promotions and just wanted the pay check for a few months. I also waited tables a couple summers in grad school when I didn't have summer funding from my department, and I busted ass at those because there was direct and immediate financial incentive to going the extra mile. Almost without fail I made more money on shifts where I was in a good mood and going the extra mile than I did in days when I wasn't feeling well and not giving full effort.

The majority of people are present minded and most motivated by clear and immediate rewards. And a tipping system is great for that.

There are exceptions of course. Some have more far sighted goals and can work hard for longer-term pay offs. Others just have a good work ethic and always bust ass no matter what. And some are just worthless and lazy and never work hard even if there is immediate benefit to doing so.[/QUOTE]

I didn't really mean for that sentence to be a true rebuttal. True, incentives do produce change in behavior, but the change is only temporary and rarely elicits lasting change. I admit I could have written that point better but had other things on my mind at the time. I was only attacking your idea that constant incentives continue to give the same result, this includes incentive based wages such as commissioned employees at radio shack or the waiter at the local diner. Or at least monetary incentives work badly when trying to elicit certain behaviors, not sure about the effect of social incentives.
 
[quote name='camoor']Why does the top 1% of America own 40% of the wealth? Did thier work really result in 40% of the wealth generation?[/QUOTE]

So... you're defending a process by comparing it to another process that you have been very outspoken against?

Makes perfect sense.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']Except that I'm not cheap, do tip, and therefore your entire statement is based in ignorance. Congratulations.

PS: Forcing people to "tip" isn't a tip at all. It's a service charge - and that's something I'm perfectly okay with, so long as it is made clear to all parties involved.[/QUOTE]
I charge a service charge when I do work for a customer and I see only my hourly pay, I don't get a cut for each service charge or call I do, just my hourly pay. I'm fortunate to get tips after I perform my work but most people pay for a service and they think that I'm getting a cut, I don't, just my hourly rate. The basic service charge pays for my gas, labor and time spent and is also the cheapest I can charge.

A delivery fee of 2 dollars to go directly to the driver is not a service charge, it's a forced tip. Every single pizzaria around me does free delivery, if I want money to go directly to the kid that shows up in the BMW with my pizza, I have to tip him.

If anybody is ignorant to the difference between a service charge and tipping, it'd be you in your own given example.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']Forcing a tip is like forcing charity. Once you make it a requirement, it is no longer the same thing.[/QUOTE]
If the "service charge" you're being charged for delivered pizza counts towards his end wages towards earning the full minimum wage, it is. If he gets that money directly, be it in his pay because of a credit/debit card or in his pocket, it's not a service payable that the pizzaria is providing but rather the driver.

Comparing tipping to charity is not the same. Gratuity is often forced on tables of 6 or more in restaurants around here, do you really want to continue that train of thought? Myself and three others went out, held down a table for at least an hour and a half and had gratuity put in the bill. Why are you failing to understand the fact that places have taken to enforcing tips?
 
You do realize, of course, that any (successful) business has "service charges" added into the price of every single product and service that they sell - and that these charges (which vary from business to business) make their way to the employees that work there?

Having a flat service charge for delivery simply allows the business to not require a minimum order *and* have lower food prices, while allowing those who don't use the delivery service to opt-out of having to pay the majority of the cost of delivery drivers.

And yes, I know some restaurants incorrectly use the term "gratuity" when charging a fee on large parties. A forced gift isn't a gift at all.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']You do realize, of course, that any (successful) business has "service charges" added into the price of every single product and service that they sell - and that these charges (which vary from business to business) make their way to the employees that work there?

Having a flat service charge for delivery simply allows the business to not require a minimum order *and* have lower food prices, while allowing those who don't use the delivery service to opt-out of having to pay the majority of the cost of delivery drivers.

And yes, I know some restaurants incorrectly use the term "gratuity" when charging a fee on large parties. A forced gift isn't a gift at all.[/QUOTE]
You do realize you're trying to explain something that doesn't have much to do with anything as a way of deflecting? A service charge from a Pizzaria goes to the Pizzaria, because it's the Pizzaria saying this is our charge. If they take that money, give it directly to the driver, it's now being used to top off their wages because their driver is getting paid like a waiter or waitress. The end result is the same if you gave the driver $2 bucks(if the delivery was truly free) or if they charged you $2 for delivery in your given example. It's still a tip and is now recorded firmly in their wage earnings just as if they tipped out at the end of the night.

Could the driver get the shaft if the company decides to stop giving him the full $2 after reaching minimum wage? Absolutely and that would be really shitty because now you have a guy who is only making minimum wage, delivering pizzas with the premise going through peoples heads that he's getting the full delivery fee and don't feel the need to tip above and beyond.

Having a flat delivery rate allows you to keep a driver on hand for deliveries, food costs aren't lowered in the least for a pizzaria. If you go in, order a pie off the menu, it costs the same as it would pre-delivery charge. There is no discount. There has never been a discount for eating in or carry out/take away.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']So... you're defending a process by comparing it to another process that you have been very outspoken against?

Makes perfect sense.[/QUOTE]

Calm down, I was just asking a question.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']
Why should Myke's server get twice the tip? (besides "social norms" and such...)[/QUOTE]

It's still merit based. Pricier restaurants are harder to get jobs. You have to have a good bit of experience waiting tables, have good references etc. And I'm not just talking 5 star places. It's harder to get a job at a place like Olive Garden than a some crummy local diner etc. They want people with experience as good service is a bigger part of the dining experience they try to provided compared to a cheap diner or burger joint.

Going from a casual restaurant to something like an Olive Garden is basically a promotion. Moving up to something like a Ruth's Chris or a fancy French Restaurant etc. is another promotion as those are the most sought after types of jobs in the service industry as you can make a very decent salary getting 20% tips at those kind of places, and get a lot more big tips from wealthy clientele etc.


[quote name='cindersphere']I was only attacking your idea that constant incentives continue to give the same result, this includes incentive based wages such as commissioned employees at radio shack or the waiter at the local diner.[/QUOTE]

Well, my rebuttal was that I was not saying that incentives give the SAME RESULT. Nothing ever does in the social world.

I'm saying on average direct financial incentive lead to people working harder than a crappy flat wage. That doesn't mean that there aren't shitty employees who are working for tips and slacking or that there aren't people on a minimum wage at Best Buy busting ass.

Just that on average you get better service in places where they're making tips than places where they're making a flat wage. There's variation across individual employees for sure. But bar none I tend to get good to great service in restaurants, and poor to average service in retail stores. Exceptions from time to time, but that's the way it is probably 90--95% of the time.
 
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RE: Myke and Bob's Burger fest
I do it like this, what's the better of the 20% rule or a couple bucks. If you're going to Perkins for a burger and your meal is less than $10, just pony up a couple bucks and help the kid out. If you're going to "Fancy Burger Place" where the burger itself is $10 and soda is even more, then you do the math.
 
Yeah, I usually do that as well. I'll never tip less than 2 or 3 bucks when eating at a place with a waiter (or a buffet place with a drink server etc.) even if it's more than 20%.

Pricier places I tip 20% for good service, and more if the service was really outstanding.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']
Besides, there's only one pizza place here in town that delivers, they charge a $2 delivery fee and it goes straight to the driver. That very much pays for the 2,428.8 feet from the pizza place to my house.[/QUOTE]
Delivery fees have been a point of confusion for years. I can only speak to my own experience at Pizza Hut, but I'm sure that events played out the same way at other shops.

Yes, the drivers are paid a mileage reimbursement, but we were receiving that long before the company began charging a fee. When the fee was added (it began at $.50 and gradually increased to $2) our reimbursement didn't change a damn bit.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']It's still merit based. Pricier restaurants are harder to get jobs. You have to have a good bit of experience waiting tables, have good references etc. And I'm not just talking 5 star places.[/QUOTE]

Pricer restaurants are harder to get jobs at because the owner/manager expects the staff to perform at a higher level so customers will continue to come back.... which benefits the owner/manager, not the customer. So you get into that entire "who should pay the employee" thing again.



Let's take this entire expected-tipping concept into other service industries. You take your car in to have it serviced. Oil changed, tires rotated, fluids checked/filled, brakes checked., etc. etc. Behind the desk is a sign that shows the services offered and the prices of these services. You get the full 40-point check up. An hour later, your car is ready. You pay the bill - as posted on the sign... But the guy who just spent an hour working on your car isn't happy with that. He wants some extra cash. Some vague amount of money given to him. Now, he can't be rude and just say "I want a $10 tip." - that would be impolite. You just have to guess how much is enough. And you better hope it's enough. Or next time you come in, he might cut your brake lines.

Or you get a loan at the bank... takes a couple of hours. Sign away, given all the fees and such... and now the banker wants some vague amount of money on top of all of that. Again - guess well, or he might accidentally move a decimal point somewhere and next thing you know, your credit is in the tank.

Did you tip the guy at the full service gas station? Whoops - hope your car runs on diesel...
 
[quote name='UncleBob']Pricer restaurants are harder to get jobs at because the owner/manager expects the staff to perform at a higher level so customers will continue to come back.... which benefits the owner/manager, not the customer. So you get into that entire "who should pay the employee" thing again.[/quote]

It benefits me as I get fantastic service in pricier restaurants. Much better than I get at some shitty blue collar diner I get drug to with colleagues etc. some times.

For the rest of your post, mechanics and bankers don't get tips as those are skilled jobs and they get paid decent wages. So that's just a silly analogy and shit like that's why I seldom click view post on you.

Full service gas? Never had my gas pumped for me in my life. Didn't know anywhere still did that other than the few states where state law requires gas be pumped by an attendant, and I would think tips would apply in that case since it's a force service (you can always get carryout in most restaurants).

But this is kind of a fruitless debate. At the end of the day you're just jealous that some unskilled laborers in the restaurant industry get tips while pretty much no laborers in retail do. Instead of whining, maybe try to do something useful with yourself so you can get something better than a Wal-mart job?
 
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