Black Teen Shot, Killed By Neighborhood Watch

[dohdough]

[quote name='IAmTheCheapestGamer']:lol: Yep. That's me. Because I care(not really) about this case because of all of the oversaturation of media coverage. It's like OJ 2.0. I'm just waiting for Geraldo to do a profile on George Zimmerman on Faux News and get a virtual hard-on for keeping this case going for his ratings for years to come like he did with OJ. I mean, it is tragic that a young man lost his life. But no amount of outside interference is going to get the D.A. in FL to suddenly file charges on Zimmerman unless they feel they're warranted. [/QUOTE]
Actually, all of the public uproar was exactly what made the cops not only start taking it more seriously, but the DA as well. Or perhaps you didn't notice that the police chief and state DA had to step down while the DOJ started it's own investigation in the case and department itself?

Apparently since they haven't done so as of yet they do NOT feel it is appropriate to file. Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty in this country? But like I said before, good luck if Zimmerman gets charged, since he will NEVER be able to get a fair trial ANYWHERE with all of the media coverage that this case has received.

He's innocent until proven guilty in a court of law; not in public opinion. The fact is this is a miscarriage of justice because if the cops didn't try to sweep this under the rug and progressively ing everything up, this case wouldn't have blown up the way i did.

I never said I was a PC person. Matter of fact, I kinda pride myself on not feeling I have 'label' people as -American and just speaking plainly as to what I feel I see. That's the problem with Amerika anymore. People sugar coat everything to not hurt other people's feelings or not be politically incorrect.

Yeah, it's not like those terms were created to replace ch*nk, g**k, n****r, f*g, sp*c, or any other "politically incorrect" term. You seem to be a little miffed that you can't use those terms. You also lack the knowledge to properly categorize what you see, so maybe you shouldn't.

But because I said the guy looks Hispanic in his mugshots or some of the photos they've released of him that's suddenly not true because you say it isn't? How about the fact that they've said his mother was from Peru originally? Not to mention the fact that Zimmerman lists himself as Hispanic on his voter registration forms?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/29/trayvon-martin-case-georg_n_1387711.html

Did you read that link? It doesn't support your argument. Not to mention that self-identification is more complex than what they put on their voter registration.

 

[slidecage]

[quote name='dohdough']How about this one. It was taken about a week before he was killed.

Not to mention the one of the WRONG Trayvon Martin that went around that was started by the fine folks at ing Stormfront.


Martin WAS innocent and did nothing to deserve being killed by Zimmerman. So he had an empty baggie that had weed in it. Big ing deal. Millions of people smoke weed and aren't gunned down on the streets with bag of skittles and some iced tea. And no you can't tell Zimmerman is half LATINO from his pics. That only came out after his father sent a letter to the local newspaper. What the do you think Martin was doing that night?

But hey, it's not like Zimmerman has a history of violence with the police, got fired from jobs for being too aggressive, has a history of domestic violence, sent letters to neighbors telling them to look out for black men, called 911 an inordinate amount of times, or any other number of things that led Zimmerman to racially profile Martin, follow him, and ultimately killing him.


You mean unlike Stormfront that used false images, the right wing media that propogated them, or the actual Nazi's currently doing armed patrols in the neighborhood? Give me a ing break.


Or maybe because the cops tried to sweep it under the rug and Zimmerman would've walked if not for the uproar? You know what happens with most murders? They get prosecuted and the cops usually don't around with it.


Yeah, but the one that's still alive is the one that killed the other. That's totally the same thing amirite?[/QUOTE]



dont even know why taking the time to even comment on your comment since you already made up your mind already and even if somehow they would come out with a tape showing it the other way around you would say

THE TAPE IS FAKE ...

lol sweep it under the rug .. hate to break it to you but there is tons more of this crap going the other way that is sweep under the rug everyday in every city.


thanks for the pic grab though first pic i seen of them not looking like 11


I dont see why the parents using a 12 year old picture saying THIS IS WHO THEY KILLED IS WRONG that is why its all ed up in the first place

 

[IAmTheCheapestGamer]

[quote name='dohdough']Actually, all of the public uproar was exactly what made the cops not only start taking it more seriously, but the DA as well. Or perhaps you didn't notice that the police chief and state DA had to step down while the DOJ started it's own investigation in the case and department itself?[/quote]
You're right. I didn't notice any of that since as I said I really haven't been following this that closely. Anytime I see coverage on it I change the channel. I'm kinda sick of the oversaturation of coverage.

He's innocent until proven guilty in a court of law; not in public opinion. The fact is this is a miscarriage of justice because if the cops didn't try to sweep this under the rug and progressively ing everything up, this case wouldn't have blown up the way i did.

Exactly. In a court of law. But with the way you responded earlier, he was clearly the aggressor(none of us were there) and guilty in your mind of killing an 'innocent' young man in cold blood. Let's let the courts decide Zimmerman's fate.

Yeah, it's not like those terms were created to replace ch*nk, g**k, n****r, f*g, sp*c, or any other "politically incorrect" term. You seem to be a little miffed that you can't use those terms. You also lack the knowledge to properly categorize what you see, so maybe you shouldn't.

Sorry. But maybe I grew up in an era when people were called black, Chinese, etc without having to hyphenate every single stupid thing. As for me being mad that I can't use racial epithets, again that is your opinion, just like already making George Zimmerman out to be 100% guilty before he even goes to trial.

Did you read that link? It doesn't support your argument. Not to mention that self-identification is more complex than what they put on their voter registration.

Nah. I just saw the segment that seemed to confirm my classification of Zimmerman and ran with it. Oh well.

 

[dohdough]

[quote name='slidecage']dont even know why taking the time to even comment on your comment since you already made up your mind already and even if somehow they would come out with a tape showing it the other way around you would say

THE TAPE IS FAKE ...[/QUOTE]
Sounds like you've made up your mind that Martin is responsible for his own death...almost as if he deserved it.

If there's a tape where Martin attacked Zimmerman first, Martin would be covered under Stand Your Ground because Zimmerman followed and pursued him by his own admission on the 911 call.

lol sweep it under the rug .. hate to break it to you but there is tons more of this crap going the other way that is sweep under the rug everyday in every city.

Sanford PD has a history of problems when it comes to racism. Or do you think that the Feds are there for vacation?

Define "going the other way." This isn't the OT forum. People expect you to explain yourself in vs.

thanks for the pic grab though first pic i seen of them not looking like 11


I dont see why the parents using a 12 year old picture saying THIS IS WHO THEY KILLED IS WRONG that is why its all ed up in the first place

You're right. It's wrong that his parents needed to drum up support to make the justice system work. The police coerced witness statements, ignored other witnesses, the DA ignored the lead investigators recommendation for manslaughter, lied to Martin's parents about Zimmerman's "relationship" with the police, the police chief made comments that implied that Martin was responsible for being killed, the state DA had to recuse himself, and now the Feds are looking into the case and the department.

 

[dohdough]

[quote name='IAmTheCheapestGamer']You're right. I didn't notice any of that since as I said I really haven't been following this that closely. Anytime I see coverage on it I change the channel. I'm kinda sick of the oversaturation of coverage.[/quote]
So instead of learning about the facts in the case, you decide that your opinion carries more weight that someone that's been following it since the beginning? Yeah, I'm sick of ignorant posters that shit up the thread every couple days too.

Exactly. In a court of law. But with the way you responded earlier, he was clearly the aggressor(none of us were there) and guilty in your mind of killing an 'innocent' young man in cold blood. Let's let the courts decide Zimmerman's fate.

How is Zimmerman not the aggressor when we have his own statements on the 911 stating that he was following Martin by car and then exiting his vehicle to pursue him on foot?

Of course I think he's guilty as and I'm not deciding his fate. He should go through the courts, which hasn't ing happened and if you paid more attention, that's what his family and a vast majority of supporters are calling for.

And why did you put quotes on innocent? Is Martin guilty of some crime that justifies his murder?

Sorry. But maybe I grew up in an era when people were called black, Chinese, etc without having to hyphenate every single stupid thing.

Or maybe you should've paid more attention to what was going on around you and realize that it's because of racism that new classifications needed to be added to our lexicon.

As for me being mad that I can't use racial epithets, again that is your opinion, just like already making George Zimmerman out to be 100% guilty before he even goes to trial.

You think it's dumb for people wanting to classify themselves in a more non-racist way and make racist comments, so if the shoe fits. I also don't think that Zimmerman is guilty of 1st degree murder. He didn't go out looking to kill a black person, but that doesn't mean that he didn't racially profile Martin, followed him by car, followed him on foot, and ultimately killing him. After the perp-walk video and witness statements, there's very little(more like none) evidence that Zimmerman was getting his head smashed into cement to the point of unconsciousness for about a minute that lead to Martin being killed on someone's lawn.

Nah. I just saw the segment that seemed to confirm my classification of Zimmerman and ran with it. Oh well.

Why am I not surprised...

 

[Pliskin101]

[quote name='joeboosauce']Pliskin,
You deleted your responses and I haven't been on the past few days so can you repost your answer to my last question?[/QUOTE]

I think zimmerman should be charged because his actions in following the kid led up to a confrontation that led to martins death.

 

[IAmTheCheapestGamer]

[quote name='dohdough']How is Zimmerman not the aggressor when we have his own statements on the 911 stating that he was following Martin by car and then exiting his vehicle to pursue him on foot?

Of course I think he's guilty as and I'm not deciding his fate. He should go through the courts, which hasn't ing happened and if you paid more attention, that's what his family and a vast majority of supporters are calling for.

And why did you put quotes on innocent? Is Martin guilty of some crime that justifies his murder?[/quote]
Once again, none of us were there, so our opinions mean exactly squat in the grand scheme of things. But judging by this response, you have already made up your mind and are trying to get everyone else to think just like you do. Yet again, we were not there, so there is no way to tell if the victim fought with him or not. Not every assault results in highly visible marks.

Or maybe you should've paid more attention to what was going on around you and realize that it's because of racism that new classifications needed to be added to our lexicon.

Yeah. Because we 'need' to add the word -American to every racial group, even though most of them(minus illegal immigrants) are ALREADY Americans. I don't believe people should use racial epithets, but I see no issue using the tried and true terms like black to describe members of a racial group. If that's racist, then you really need to relax since there's more important things to worry about in life other than titles we give people.

You think it's dumb for people wanting to classify themselves in a more non-racist way and make racist comments, so if the shoe fits. I also don't think that Zimmerman is guilty of 1st degree murder. He didn't go out looking to kill a black person, but that doesn't mean that he didn't racially profile Martin, followed him by car, followed him on foot, and ultimately killing him. After the perp-walk video and witness statements, there's very little(more like none) evidence that Zimmerman was getting his head smashed into cement to the point of unconsciousness for about a minute that lead to Martin being killed on someone's lawn.


Why am I not surprised...

So following someone who is not a resident in your neighborhood after a series of break-ins is now considered racial profiling? Wow. That's stretching it a bit to fit your definition, isn't it? In my area, we've had a number of break-ins and even home invasions recently, so many so that I've been having trouble sleeping at night. So you better believe if I see someone I don't recognize in my neighborhood I'm going to watch them. So I guess if the strangers I watch just happen to be black, that makes me a racist and I'm profiling them, right?

 

[Msut77]

You can be all legalistic when Zimmerman faces a trial, before that you are just pulling the same shit.

 

[dohdough]

[quote name='IAmTheCheapestGamer']Once again, none of us were there, so our opinions mean exactly squat in the grand scheme of things. But judging by this response, you have already made up your mind and are trying to get everyone else to think just like you do. Yet again, we were not there, so there is no way to tell if the victim fought with him or not. Not every assault results in highly visible marks.[/quote]
Getting your head pounded into cement for almost a minute to the point of unconsciousness would land you on a stretcher in an ambulance making a B line to the closest hospital for tests and observations, not a ride in the back of a cruiser in which you get out without any assistance with no blood or visible injuries. We're not talking a paper cut here; we're talking a possible concussion with a broken nose from which he was reportedly clearly bleeding from as well as from the back of the head. Not to mention that the funeral director said that he didn't see any sign of trauma on Martin's hands.

These are literally reported facts of the case. It literally does not matter if Martin threw the first punch. And honestly, I couldn't give a shit if there was a fight and the only way Zimmerman would be justified is if Zimmerman never followed him and was attacked out of the blue, but it's undisputable that Zimmerman not only followed him in his car, but got out to chase him by ing foot. I must've repeated this at least 15 times in this thread and you think this is some silly opinion on par with yours?

Yeah. Because we 'need' to add the word -American to every racial group, even though most of them(minus illegal immigrants) are ALREADY Americans. I don't believe people should use racial epithets, but I see no issue using the tried and true terms like black to describe members of a racial group. If that's racist, then you really need to relax since there's more important things to worry about in life other than titles we give people.

Those undocumented immigrants are usually Americans too, but you still feel like using loaded language so what's your point? N****r was a tried and true term as well. And a lot of times, that label would mean your death, so yeah, it's pretty ing important. More important than your need to ignorantly classify people according to how YOU want instead of how THEY want.

So following someone who is not a resident in your neighborhood after a series of break-ins is now considered racial profiling? Wow. That's stretching it a bit to fit your definition, isn't it? In my area, we've had a number of break-ins and even home invasions recently, so many so that I've been having trouble sleeping at night. So you better believe if I see someone I don't recognize in my neighborhood I'm going to watch them. So I guess if the strangers I watch just happen to be black, that makes me a racist and I'm profiling them, right?

If that means being suspicious of every black person you don't know that comes walking down the street like Zimmerman? Then yes. If you associate criminality with black people, then double yes. Do you think Zimmerman followed every single stranger and called the cops on them? .No.

 

[IAmTheCheapestGamer]

[quote name='dohdough']Getting your head pounded into cement for almost a minute to the point of unconsciousness would land you on a stretcher in an ambulance making a B line to the closest hospital for tests and observations, not a ride in the back of a cruiser in which you get out without any assistance with no blood or visible injuries. We're not talking a paper cut here; we're talking a possible concussion with a broken nose from which he was reportedly clearly bleeding from as well as from the back of the head. Not to mention that the funeral director said that he didn't see any sign of trauma on Martin's hands.[/quote]
So if Zimmerman was clearly bleeding from the nose and the back of his head, then that means that Martin may have assaulted him in the manner that was reported.

These are literally reported facts of the case. It literally does not matter if Martin threw the first punch. And honestly, I couldn't give a shit if there was a fight and the only way Zimmerman would be justified is if Zimmerman never followed him and was attacked out of the blue, but it's undisputable that Zimmerman not only followed him in his car, but got out to chase him by ing foot. I must've repeated this at least 15 times in this thread and you think this is some silly opinion on par with yours?

It doesn't matter if Martin threw the first punch? According to who? If Martin threw the first punch, then yes, that does make HIM the aggressor. But again, neither of us were there that night, so we don't know who did what in what order.

As for Zimmerman following Martin by car and then by foot, you're telling me that if in your neighborhood a bunch of houses were broken into and then you saw someone who was NOT from your neighborhood that you wouldn't find that at all suspicious and want to make sure they weren't there to cause trouble? I know I certainly would.

Those undocumented immigrants are usually Americans too, but you still feel like using loaded language so what's your point? N****r was a tried and true term as well. And a lot of times, that label would mean your death, so yeah, it's pretty ing important. More important than your need to ignorantly classify people according to how YOU want instead of how THEY want.

:lol: Undocumented, huh? As opposed to what? We have borders. These folks crossed said borders without doing so legally(you know, at the border crossings with documentation) and stay here until they are apprehended by INS officials and sent back to their countries of origin.

If that means being suspicious of every black person you don't know that comes walking down the street like Zimmerman? Then yes. If you associate criminality with black people, then double yes. Do you think Zimmerman followed every single stranger and called the cops on them? .No.

I associate someone strange wandering around my neighborhood as something to be suspicious of. If they happen to be black, white, Asian or whatever it makes no difference to me. I'm suspicious of EVERYBODY I don't know because of all of the fine reporting in this country scaring the ever living shit outta me, making me think there's a boogeyman behind every bush waiting to invade my home. So yeah I'll profile anybody I need to to make sure my house, my family and my shit is safe.

 

[Clak]

Man, you know shit be getting crazy when slidecage shows up.

 

[dohdough]

[quote name='IAmTheCheapestGamer']So if Zimmerman was clearly bleeding from the nose and the back of his head, then that means that Martin may have assaulted him in the manner that was reported.[/quote]
The fact that Zimmerman was NOT rushed to the hospital, his clothes were free of clearly visible bloodstains from an alleged attack, and the perp-walk video of his head, how the hell can you conclude that he was in a life-threatening fight for his life?

It doesn't matter if Martin threw the first punch? According to who? If Martin threw the first punch, then yes, that does make HIM the aggressor. But again, neither of us were there that night, so we don't know who did what in what order.

Is there a reason why you're being so obtuse? If Martin threw the first punch, then why would he throw a punch at all? Just to beat up some random guy in a car? So Zimmerman gets to use self defense, but Martin doesn't? How the hell do you square that? Even after testimony from Martin's girlfriend saying that he was scared because he was being followed?

You're asking questions that have been answered for weeks and then ignoring them. For what? Just to voice an uninformed opinion because there's the slimmest of chances that you might be right and can say "I told you so?" despite actual evidence to the contrary?

As for Zimmerman following Martin by car and then by foot, you're telling me that if in your neighborhood a bunch of houses were broken into and then you saw someone who was NOT from your neighborhood that you wouldn't find that at all suspicious and want to make sure they weren't there to cause trouble? I know I certainly would.

I'm not a paranoid freak that's suspicious of everyone I don't know that might want to take my shit, which is highly unlikely. My home was actually broken into while my family were in it when I was a child. Twice. I still don't have this overwhelming fear of having a home invasion despite that. Hell, I live in a condo complex with 100 units and I know maybe 15 faces max. Should I be suspicious of everyone I don't know? Would it even make any sense to be?

:lol: Undocumented, huh? As opposed to what? We have borders. These folks crossed said borders without doing so legally(you know, at the border crossings with documentation) and stay here until they are apprehended by INS officials and sent back to their countries of origin.

If you can use loaded language, so can I. And since I'm sure you know nothing about "illegal immigration," close to half of them are visa overstays. Getting a visa means it's legal entry. So yeah, undocumented is applicable in more than one way. There's also disproportionate enforcement when it comes to undocumented workers with tans. I'm going to toss you a bone and am glad that you didn't say "illegal aliens."

I associate someone strange wandering around my neighborhood as something to be suspicious of. If they happen to be black, white, Asian or whatever it makes no difference to me. I'm suspicious of EVERYBODY I don't know because of all of the fine reporting in this country scaring the ever living shit outta me, making me think there's a boogeyman behind every bush waiting to invade my home. So yeah I'll profile anybody I need to to make sure my house, my family and my shit is safe.

Or maybe you just shouldn't be so paranoid. You know what helps? Actually educating yourself on these issues. Since you find that your brain's been programmed into it's current state and know that it's faulty, it's time for you to deprogram yourself into a more contemplative person instead of a knee-jerking ignoramus.

 

[dohdough]

[quote name='Clak']Man, you know shit be getting crazy when slidecage shows up.[/QUOTE]
Sheeeit...and people have the balls to call ME gargus!

 

[Pliskin101]

"Iamthecheapestgamer" you make some good points. I don't think with what we know at this point that Zimmerman racially profiled the kid.
Zimmerman had the right to "watch" the kid given the robberies and he didn't recognize this person from the neighborhood (if that was why which at this point sounds like it and there is no proof otherwise)

But I believe that zimmerman followed him on foot and this scared Martin. Zimmerman wasn't wearing any type of security uniform. But if Zimmerman's story is true (which we don't know yet) and zimmerman stopped following martin and was walking away and back to his car than Martin had no reason to confront him any longer...if Zimmerman kept following him then Martin being a kid instead of continuing home as his girlfriend even partially suggested made a bad decision in deciding to confront him if that is what happened. He is a kid and it was a bad choice. As far as the confrontation itself there are conflicting reports so there are many holes that need to be filled in with the facts and hopefully they will be.
That is why I think zimmerman should be charged if he was folllowing Martin and DID NOT stop.

This whole thing is tragic. I also don't think the charge would be first degree murder though unless it can be proved with FACT that Zimmerman stalked Martin with the intent to kill him and did so. Willful and Premeditated has to be there for that to happen.

 

[IAmTheCheapestGamer]

[quote name='dohdough']The fact that Zimmerman was NOT rushed to the hospital, his clothes were free of clearly visible bloodstains from an alleged attack, and the perp-walk video of his head, how the hell can you conclude that he was in a life-threatening fight for his life?[/quote]
Maybe they gave him time to clean himself up?

Is there a reason why you're being so obtuse? If Martin threw the first punch, then why would he throw a punch at all? Just to beat up some random guy in a car? So Zimmerman gets to use self defense, but Martin doesn't? How the hell do you square that? Even after testimony from Martin's girlfriend saying that he was scared because he was being followed?

It could be that Zimmerman asked Martin what he was doing there after getting out of his car to follow him and Martin made a snide remark, an argument ensued and then Martin took a swing. Again this is going into the realm of conjecture because neither of us were there.

I'm not a paranoid freak that's suspicious of everyone I don't know that might want to take my shit, which is highly unlikely. My home was actually broken into while my family were in it when I was a child. Twice. I still don't have this overwhelming fear of having a home invasion despite that. Hell, I live in a condo complex with 100 units and I know maybe 15 faces max. Should I be suspicious of everyone I don't know? Would it even make any sense to be?

It's just who I am. Not to mention all of the people who decided to take short cuts through our yard. But the best example of why I'm suspicious of other people is when I wasn't home the one night, someone tried opening our front door by jiggling the handle and my family(stupidly) opened the door soon after that thinking it was me n I forgot my keys. Soon after that my family saw a shadow on the side of the house. So yeah, considering someone actually tried getting into my house at least once that we know of, I'm of the mindset that all strangers coming by/near my house are potential burglars.#

Or maybe you just shouldn't be so paranoid. You know what helps? Actually educating yourself on these issues. Since you find that your brain's been programmed into it's current state and know that it's faulty, it's time for you to deprogram yourself into a more contemplative person instead of a knee-jerking ignoramus.

Sure thing. Right after I teach myself to be a PC racial hyphenating gentleman who learns 10 languages so I can speak with every immigrant I encounter in their native language instead of hoping they know MY language of English.

 

[Pliskin101]

@Iatcg I agree the term is illegal immigrants is fine to use as they are illegal why people can't understand that is beyond me.

I also don't like hyphenated american it is imo silly. I don't have dual citizenship so yea I am American.

edit: I don't think people would get upset if I called someone an illegal driver if they didn't have a license and are driving.

 

[dohdough]

[quote name='IAmTheCheapestGamer']Maybe they gave him time to clean himself up? [/quote]
He was at the police station within 45 minutes of killing Martin. Not bloody likely considering the vascular nature of the head and the spotless shirt and jacket. They don't let you change or shower after you shoot someone.

It could be that Zimmerman asked Martin what he was doing there after getting out of his car to follow him and Martin made a snide remark, an argument ensued and then Martin took a swing. Again this is going into the realm of conjecture because neither of us were there.

That still means that Zimmerman initiated the confrontation.

It's just who I am. Not to mention all of the people who decided to take short cuts through our yard. But the best example of why I'm suspicious of other people is when I wasn't home the one night, someone tried opening our front door by jiggling the handle and my family(stupidly) opened the door soon after that thinking it was me n I forgot my keys. Soon after that my family saw a shadow on the side of the house. So yeah, considering someone actually tried getting into my house at least once that we know of, I'm of the mindset that all strangers coming by/near my house are potential burglars.#

Yeah...and anyone can get a UPS, Fed-Ex, or USPS uniform too as they don't always use company vehicles. Better watch out for those guys too.

Sure thing. Right after I teach myself to be a PC racial hyphenating gentleman who learns 10 languages so I can speak with every immigrant I encounter in their native language instead of hoping they know MY language of English.

Be bigoted and ignorant if you want, but stop acting all surprised when people call you out on it.

 

[IAmTheCheapestGamer]

[quote name='dohdough']
That still means that Zimmerman initiated the confrontation.[/quote]
Zimmerman was the neighborhood watch captain, right? So therefore he was watching what Martin was doing. If he did confront him and ask what he was doing there, then he was doing so only to make sure his neighborhood was safe. How is that wrong?

Yeah...and anyone can get a UPS, Fed-Ex, or USPS uniform too as they don't always use company vehicles. Better watch out for those guys too.

Damn. You're right. I guess I'll have to just tell them to drop any packages I might be receiving and leave anymore.#

Be bigoted and ignorant if you want, but stop acting all surprised when people call you out on it.

I've gotten this far without incident, what's a little longer?

 

[Pliskin101]

[quote name='slidecage']
I dont see why the parents using a 12 year old picture saying THIS IS WHO THEY KILLED IS WRONG that is why its all ed up in the first place[/QUOTE]

"they killed my son" I remember the mom saying that at a press conference with I think Al standing behind her at the time it crossed my mind that might have been coached for her to say. It may have just been a slip or a mistake and I don't hold it against the parents as they are grieving but if it was coached than those taking advantage of grieving parents are just wrong.

One person killed the kid not THEY.

 

[dohdough]

[quote name='IAmTheCheapestGamer']Zimmerman was the neighborhood watch captain, right? So therefore he was watching what Martin was doing. If he did confront him and ask what he was doing there, then he was doing so only to make sure his neighborhood was safe. How is that wrong? [/quote]
Self-appointed neighborhood watch captain and only member. He was specifically briefed by local police to observe and report, not to approach and/or shoot. This consistant with the actual national Neighborhood Watch Program and it's their policy to not allow guns.

Zimmerman has no authority to stop and question anyone. Do you think he accosts every person he doesn't know? He has a pattern of not only racially profiling, but telling others to do it too. It was bad enough that there were complaints from neighbors.

Since you're paranoid about strangers, how would you feel if someone approached one of your children in an unmarked car after being followed?

Damn. You're right. I guess I'll have to just tell them to drop any packages I might be receiving and leave anymore.#

I've gotten this far without incident, what's a little longer?

This isn't the first time you've been called out on it and it won't be the last.

 

[dohdough]

[quote name='Pliskin101']"they killed my son" I remember the mom saying that at a press conference with I think Al standing behind her at the time it crossed my mind that might have been coached for her to say. It may have just been a slip or a mistake and I don't hold it against the parents as they are grieving but if it was coached than those taking advantage of grieving parents are just wrong.

One person killed the kid not THEY.[/QUOTE]
Context.

 

[IAmTheCheapestGamer]

[quote name='dohdough']
Since you're paranoid about strangers, how would you feel if someone approached one of your children in an unmarked car after being followed?
[/quote]
Don't have any kids and don't want any. But yeah, that'd be creepy.

This isn't the first time you've been called out on it and it won't be the last.

Who else is going to call me out on it?

 

[Pliskin101]

[quote name='Pliskin101']As a black man I would just like somebody to show me the proof that this is a racist police department and DA for starters. I think I can safely say most think/know zimmerman killed the kid and his actions caused the event that led to the killing.

As far as the small minority of the same loud voices crying racism they are just that a small portion of black people they do not represent everyone and the numbers are actually quite small for a so-called racist event. That alone shows that most, with the facts at hand, just don't see it that way. Just as the white supremacists that are using this as race bait do not represent all white people.

I find it embarrassing that people like Al Sharpton and that vocal selfish minority who can't let a crisis go by without exploiting it have come out and purport to speak for all of us.

IMO This kind of exploitation serves no purpose to us or white people in stamping out real racism. We can't cry wolf every time before the facts even show that is what it is. Have we learned nothing? This is not the way to move forward and teach.[/QUOTE]

So nobody here has provided any proof. I can't find any proof of that either. So any statement to them being racist is just an assumption based on nothing or well other people are racist so yea they must be to.

Now I would also like proof as it is being thrown around that Zimmerman racially profiled the kid and proof that he has a history of racial profiling and told others to do it as well. I have not seen any facts to prove any of that. So if there is please post the facts to prove it with links.

 

[renique46]

So after establishing Martin was black with the Dispatcher, what was so hard with just simply saying "he looks like he's gonna get away" instead he chooses to say "they always get away" like a dumb ass. Wtf? They? Whose they? A Black kid in a hoodie? Martin is just one person last time i checked, poor choice of words regardless of how much his uncle tom friends want to vouch for him. And people expect others to not think he was racially profiling someone? stfu

 

[Knoell]

[quote name='renique46']So after establishing Martin was black with the Dispatcher, what was so hard with just simply saying "he looks like he's gonna get away" instead he chooses to say "they always get away" like a dumb ass. Wtf? They? Whose they? A Black kid in a hoodie? Martin is just one person last time i checked, poor choice of words regardless of how much his uncle tom friends want to vouch for him. And people expect others to not think he was racially profiling someone? stfu[/QUOTE]

burglars
criminals
thieves
hoodlums
vandals

The list goes on, but because the kid was black it must of been racial. Wait.... isn't that racial profiling in and of itself? :lol:

 

[IRHari]

[quote name='Knoell']burglars
criminals
thieves
hoodlums
vandals

The list goes on, but because the kid was black it must of been racial. Wait.... isn't that racial profiling in and of itself? :lol:[/QUOTE]

Even though Zimmerman had no proof whatsoever that Martin was any of those 5 things you listed.

 

[perdition(troy]

Right, but if we're assuming this guy is a gung ho neighborhood watchman we can assume that he could have meant anything by "they always get away". Kids he called the police about (47 times), people he thought were vandals, people he thought were trespassing, there are a ton of things he could have meant by they, none of which we know are what he actually thought about as he said they.

 

[dmaul1114]

[quote name='IRHari']Even though Zimmerman had no proof whatsoever that Martin was any of those 5 things you listed.[/QUOTE]

Exactly. Again, it all comes down to the criminalblackman stereotype.

Many people see a young black male they don't know walking in their neighborhood and their minds instantly jump to being suspicious.

That's what leads to racial profiling by police, and by people like Zimmerman. It doesn't mean people are hardcore, blatant racists who actively hate people of other racial groups. It just means they buy into the stereotype of young black male=up to no good. And thus are naturally suspicious anytime they see a young black male they don't know, when they wouldn't look twice if it was a white kid in jeans and a t-shirt.

 

[Pliskin101]

[quote name='dmaul1114']Exactly. Again, it all comes down to the criminalblackman stereotype.

Many people see a young black male they don't know walking in their neighborhood and their minds instantly jump to being suspicious.

That's what leads to racial profiling by police, and by people like Zimmerman. It doesn't mean people are hardcore, blatant racists who actively hate people of other racial groups. It just means they buy into the stereotype of young black male=up to no good. And thus are naturally suspicious anytime they see a young black male they don't know, when they wouldn't look twice if it was a white kid in jeans and a t-shirt.[/QUOTE]

Just like you and the other few posters are stereotyping zimmerman assuming he racially profiled because he is not black. Since he is not black he must be racist and racially profiling. What a load of crap.

It has been established that he was a self appointed criminal watchmen and his calls over 7 years and the ones I heard were all about suspecting everyone and anything. Was he a loose cannon probably.

 

[Knoell]

[quote name='dmaul1114']Exactly. Again, it all comes down to the criminalblackman stereotype.

Many people see a young black male they don't know walking in their neighborhood and their minds instantly jump to being suspicious.

That's what leads to racial profiling by police, and by people like Zimmerman. It doesn't mean people are hardcore, blatant racists who actively hate people of other racial groups. It just means they buy into the stereotype of young black male=up to no good. And thus are naturally suspicious anytime they see a young black male they don't know, when they wouldn't look twice if it was a white kid in jeans and a t-shirt.[/QUOTE]

With how many other calls to police, you think this guy wouldn't have looked twice at a white kid he didn't recognize? Must of been a lot of black people walking around his neighborhood.....Come on man.......

 

[VipFREAK]

He better hide... also, whoever donates to his pathetic cries of a website is a cunt.

I'm for an innocent KID walking down the street and some paranoid idiot with a gun took advantage of a stupid ass law...

 

[dmaul1114]

I was speaking more generally rather than to this case specifically.

With this guy's track record, he may well just be a nut job who is just suspicious of everyone and is a wannabe cop with issues etc. But to know that we'd have to know what all his calls to the police were about, the race of the people he was calling about etc.

More generally, it speaks to why neighborhood watch type programs are pretty useless. Studies find no impact on crime rates, it's just a PR tool for police departments to help boost their reputation with the community by having some meetings and trying to show that they care etc.

People like Zimmerman that are suspicious of everyone, worry obsessively about crime etc. just need to stay the out of cities. Live in a nice suburb or some rural area where such things are pretty much non-existent. Those types are never going to be happy in a city as they overstate the crime problem and stress themselves out worrying about it. And then you have the occasional tragedy like this that results when a nut job takes the watchmen role too far.

 

[Clak]

Was there really even a neighborhood watch in that community? Seems to me it was just Zimmerman. Real neighborhood watch groups vet members by doing background checks etc. The Guardian Angels for example.

 

[Pliskin101]

[quote name='dmaul1114']I was speaking more generally rather than to this case specifically.

[/QUOTE]

Except you did say "zimmerman" so yea.

I am glad to see you backtracked though and I liked the rest of this post of yours. .

 

[dmaul1114]

[quote name='Clak']Was there really even a neighborhood watch in that community? Seems to me it was just Zimmerman. Real neighborhood watch groups vet members by doing background checks etc. The Guardian Angels for example.[/QUOTE]

From what I've read, there was neighborhood watch, but Zimmerman wasn't part of it.

Neighborhood Watch (the official program) doesn't do any citizen patrols. It's just for police to meet with the group, tell them what to keep an eye out for, and to get people to call in suspicious things more often.

I think there was some other group that Zimmerman was formerly a part of that did citizen patrols. I recall one article that interviewed one of those people and talked about how Zimmerman had kind of got booted from the group from over reacting when throwing someone out of a party or something. Or maybe that was some security company he'd worked for? I've read so many things on this case it's hard to keep them all straight.

 

[dmaul1114]

[quote name='Pliskin101']Except you did say "zimmerman" so yea.

I am glad to see you backtracked though and I liked the rest of this post of yours. . [/QUOTE]

That's fair, I did mention his name in the last part (but did say people like him)--as I more meant just by vigilante/neighborhood watch people.

People rely far to much on stereotypes of race, dress style etc. in determining whether someone is suspicious or dangerous etc.

If you live in a city, there are going to be all kinds of people around and there's always a slim chance that someone could pose a danger to you (higher if you live in a really bad area) and using stereotypes in who to be suspicious of serves no utility. Body language and demeanor is much more indicative of suspicious behavior than the way someone looks or is dressed etc.

If you're going to be happy in a city, you just have to be cautious and use commonsense, and not be miserable and suspicious all the time from overstating the crime risk.

 

[Knoell]

[quote name='dmaul1114']That's fair, I did mention his name in the last part (but did say people like him)--as I more meant just by vigilante/neighborhood watch people.

People rely far to much on stereotypes of race, dress style etc. in determining whether someone is suspicious or dangerous etc.

If you live in a city, there are going to be all kinds of people around and there's always a slim chance that someone could pose a danger to you (higher if you live in a really bad area) and using stereotypes in who to be suspicious of serves no utility. Body language and demeanor is much more indicative of suspicious behavior than the way someone looks or is dressed etc.

If you're going to be happy in a city, you just have to be cautious and use commonsense, and not be miserable and suspicious all the time from overstating the crime risk.[/QUOTE]

I would like to see the random person that kills a random kid that isn't overly suspicious or dangerous.....

 

[Pliskin101]

[quote name='dmaul1114']That's fair, I did mention his name in the last part (but did say people like him)--as I more meant just by vigilante/neighborhood watch people.

People rely far to much on stereotypes of race, dress style etc. in determining whether someone is suspicious or dangerous etc.

If you live in a city, there are going to be all kinds of people around and there's always a slim chance that someone could pose a danger to you (higher if you live in a really bad area) and using stereotypes in who to be suspicious of serves no utility. Body language and demeanor is much more indicative of suspicious behavior than the way someone looks or is dressed etc.

If you're going to be happy in a city, you just have to be cautious and use commonsense, and not be miserable and suspicious all the time from overstating the crime risk.[/QUOTE]

Paranoia is not a bad thing but it has to be coupled with common sense and realism.

Well said dmaul...

 

[dmaul1114]

Paranoia is never a good thing. People just don't realize how rare truly random, serious crime is.

If you don't live in the ghetto, use common sense (i.e. don't walk alone at night, leave valuables in sight in your car etc.) your odds of being a crime victim--even in a big city--are very slim.

Serious crime is VERY concentrated in a very small number of places in a city (studies find that 3-5% of addresses in a city generate half the calls to the police, for serious crimes like robbery, burglary etc. usually 3-10% of addresses generate 100% of the calls), and for most things (other than street robbery, carjackings etc.) it's often the case that the victim and offender are at least acquaintances.

Just no sense in being paranoid, scared etc. If living in a city does that to you, then move out to the suburbs or a rural area where you can have a higher quality of life from not being scared/paranoid all the time.

 

[dohdough]

dmaul:

I don't think Zimmerman's pattern of overzealousness precludes him from profiling Martin. If anything, it strengthens it for me. I'm sure you know my stance on that though, so I won't go over it unless someone asks or flames me for it.

I've been reading more than I should about the case as well and a lot of reputable sources are getting lost in the noise. But to clarify a couple things:

- He was fired from a security job(probably as a bouncer) for being too aggressive

- He wasn't part of any official neighborhood watch group in any official capacity(the national one which was co-sponsored by the local PD), but literally self-appointed

- Despite not being official, he was listed as the neighborhood watch captain in the community newsletter of that month.

Points 2 and 3 are really interesting because it sets up the home association for a civil lawsuit from Martin's parents.

Sorry for the sloppy post, I'm on my way out.

 

[dmaul1114]

Oh, I didn't mean to imply that it precludes him from profiling. Just that it makes it harder to say for sure that he did since he has a history of being overzealous and calling the cops a ton. As I said, would have to know the circumstances of all the times he thought someone was suspicious to see if there was any race or class bias in there.

Where as if it was someone with no history of calling the cops etc. it's easier to say that they just applied the criminalblackman stereotype and thought a young black male in a hoodie=suspicious person. In this case it may be that, or he may just be a crazy person who calls the cops nearly every time he sees a stranger in his neighborhood (and again is thus a type of person who should live somewhere secluded if he can't deal with strangers).

 

[perdition(troy]

- He wasn't part of any official neighborhood watch group in any official capacity(the national one which was co-sponsored by the local PD), but literally self-appointed - Despite not being official, he was listed as the neighborhood watch captain in the community newsletter of that month.Points 2 and 3 are really interesting because it sets up the home association for a civil lawsuit from Martin's parents.

I don't get the last point you make about a civil lawsuit. Since when did a neighborhood watch have to be an "official" neighborhood watch. That makes 0 sense to me.

 

[Purple Flames]

Bout time: http://globalgrind.com/news/george-zimmerman-be-charged-today-details

 

[chiwii]

It's been a while since I heard Zimmerman's 911 call, but, if I remember correctly, he stated that Martin looked suspicious because he was walking slowly in the rain and looking into houses. He didn't mention Marin's race until the dispatcher asked about it. So, it seems like Zimmerman did evaluate Martin's body lanuguage and demeanor.

By the way, I think that Zimmerman should be in jail. I'm just not convinced that he was profiling Martin based on his race.

 

[dmaul1114]

[quote name='perdition(troy']I don't get the last point you make about a civil lawsuit. Since when did a neighborhood watch have to be an "official" neighborhood watch. That makes 0 sense to me.[/QUOTE]

If he was part of (much less in charge of) any type of official neighborhood watch type thing, then the HOA or whoever ran it is then also liable for lawsuit.

If he was totally unaffiliated and acting on his own, then only he is liable.

Similarly, if it was an official city/police ran neighborhood watch the city could be liable for suit. Doesn't mean they'd lose, but they could be sued for not properly training participants, not screening participants thoroughly enough etc.

 

[Pliskin101]

[quote name='Pliskin101']Paranoia is not a bad thing but it has to be coupled with common sense and realism.

Well said dmaul...[/QUOTE]

[quote name='dmaul1114']Paranoia is never a good thing. [/QUOTE]

I should have added "sarcasm" to this post.

Seems to be one or two posters on this thread that fall into paranoia coupled with the fact they actually believe that they have the common sense and it is based in realism.

1. A psychotic disorder characterized by delusions of persecution with or without grandeur, often strenuously defended with apparent logic and reason.
2. Extreme, irrational distrust of others.

 

[dohdough]

[quote name='dmaul1114']Oh, I didn't mean to imply that it precludes him from profiling. Just that it makes it harder to say for sure that he did since he has a history of being overzealous and calling the cops a ton. As I said, would have to know the circumstances of all the times he thought someone was suspicious to see if there was any race or class bias in there.[/QUOTE]
I don't disagree with you here either, but you know me, I'm a little(A LOT:lol nitpicky. As someone that studies this stuff as a "hobby," I guess it's easier for me to see certain aspects of class/race bias, whereas you're able to the crime aspect of it far better than me? I don't remember your speciality or if you've ever mentioned it. Not saying that you should, I just don't remember.

Where as if it was someone with no history of calling the cops etc. it's easier to say that they just applied the criminalblackman stereotype and thought a young black male in a hoodie=suspicious person. In this case it may be that, or he may just be a crazy person who calls the cops nearly every time he sees a stranger in his neighborhood (and again is thus a type of person who should live somewhere secluded if he can't deal with strangers).

HAHAHA...I think the problem is that even when they're in the sticks, they take their paranoia with them.

 

[nasum]

[quote name='Purple Flames']Bout time: http://globalgrind.com/news/george-zimmerman-be-charged-today-details[/QUOTE]

I'm really curious what they use to charge. Negligent homicide?

 

[dohdough]

LOLZ...hey Pliskin, did a mod tell you to stop responding to me or you'd get banned?

 

[Pliskin101]

[quote name='nasum']I'm really curious what they use to charge. Negligent homicide?[/QUOTE]

I think like most cases they will start higher with the plan of reducing it or bargaining it at a later time.