Zimmerman is in custody and charged with 2nd degree murder.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/11/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/11/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html
Black Teen Shot, Killed By Neighborhood Watch
- Thread starter joeboosauce
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IAmTheCheapestGamer
Banned
[quote name='dohdough']LOLZ...hey Pliskin, did a mod tell you to stop responding to me or you'd get banned?[/QUOTE]
Good to see you're a firm believer in freedom of speech and against censoring people for having a differing opinion to your own.
Good to see you're a firm believer in freedom of speech and against censoring people for having a differing opinion to your own.
Dead of Knight
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[quote name='dohdough']Zimmerman is in custody and charged with 2nd degree murder.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/11/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html[/QUOTE]
I'm so glad this is going to trial. Let's have the evidence decide, not some retarded police department.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/11/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html[/QUOTE]
I'm so glad this is going to trial. Let's have the evidence decide, not some retarded police department.
[quote name='IAmTheCheapestGamer']Good to see you're a firm believer in freedom of speech and against censoring people for having a differing opinion to your own.[/QUOTE]
LOLZ...I didn't report anyone and never have. You'd know that if you followed vs. There's only one person here that reports posts to silence other posters that I know of and that's Unclebob.
If I was going to report someone I don't like, you'd be in the top 5 if that helps feed your persecution complex. And why would it make sense for me to single out Pliskin when there are several other contrarian trolls that came way before him and are still here trolling away? If you're going to accuse me of something, at least have it make sense.
[/QUOTE]LOLZ...I didn't report anyone and never have. You'd know that if you followed vs. There's only one person here that reports posts to silence other posters that I know of and that's Unclebob.
If I was going to report someone I don't like, you'd be in the top 5 if that helps feed your persecution complex. And why would it make sense for me to single out Pliskin when there are several other contrarian trolls that came way before him and are still here trolling away? If you're going to accuse me of something, at least have it make sense.
IAmTheCheapestGamer
Banned
At least that's one thing we can finally agree on.
I personally feel like CAG has become the schoolyard and the mods are the teachers. There's far too many tattletales/rats on here anymore who go crying to them whenever they see something they don't like.
But yeah, I also agree on the trolls. I was warned for 'being a d-bag' to other users on here and almost banned for it, yet I see people belittling others far more often than I feel I ever did it and they're still here with nary a warning or even a temp ban.
But thanks for saying you would report me. At least I know you care now.:lol: Kidding.
As for the topic at hand though, I do agree that justice may finally be served now that he's been charged. But you do have to admit that with all of the coverage on this case he cannot under any circumstances get anything even vaguely resembling a fair trial.
I personally feel like CAG has become the schoolyard and the mods are the teachers. There's far too many tattletales/rats on here anymore who go crying to them whenever they see something they don't like.But yeah, I also agree on the trolls. I was warned for 'being a d-bag' to other users on here and almost banned for it, yet I see people belittling others far more often than I feel I ever did it and they're still here with nary a warning or even a temp ban.
But thanks for saying you would report me. At least I know you care now.:lol: Kidding.
As for the topic at hand though, I do agree that justice may finally be served now that he's been charged. But you do have to admit that with all of the coverage on this case he cannot under any circumstances get anything even vaguely resembling a fair trial.
P
Pliskin101
Guest
[quote name='IAmTheCheapestGamer']Good to see you're a firm believer in freedom of speech and against censoring people for having a differing opinion to your own.[/QUOTE]
It was my opinion that he was harassing me on all of my posts and playing twisted games because I was his vision of something not based in reality. I deleted all of my posts and was going to stop being a part of this forum but then decided to just place dd on my ignore list. I sometimes still unfortunately get a quick glimpse of his posts (he/she whatever) if I am not signed in and can't (unfortunately)undo what I have seen.
I was never warned by mods in any of this. It was a personal choice.
I never reported him or anyone else since the ignore feature was/is an option.
[/QUOTE]It was my opinion that he was harassing me on all of my posts and playing twisted games because I was his vision of something not based in reality. I deleted all of my posts and was going to stop being a part of this forum but then decided to just place dd on my ignore list. I sometimes still unfortunately get a quick glimpse of his posts (he/she whatever) if I am not signed in and can't (unfortunately)undo what I have seen.
I was never warned by mods in any of this. It was a personal choice.
I never reported him or anyone else since the ignore feature was/is an option.
Well, that explains all his passive aggressive posts towards me. Then again, if leaving vs. was his goal and erasing all his posts, why would he delete the posts that I never responded to after he put me on ignore? He deletes post every single day. Doesn't make a lick of sense...
Soodmeg
CAGiversary!
You know what...this case as brought out a lot of pathetic copy cats in the outrage department. Its sad because those idiots dont realize they are hurting the chances of all actually hate crimes when trying so desperately to compare any case that happens to this one.
Its like when stupid ass black folks start playing the race card for everything when its clearly not...it just mucks up the system and when a real racist,sexist,hate crime etc etc comes along people are less prone to act.
Sorry to post this here...i didnt even want to bump slidecage stupid ass post.
Its like when stupid ass black folks start playing the race card for everything when its clearly not...it just mucks up the system and when a real racist,sexist,hate crime etc etc comes along people are less prone to act.
Sorry to post this here...i didnt even want to bump slidecage stupid ass post.
IAmTheCheapestGamer
Banned
[quote name='Soodmeg']
Its like when stupid ass black folks start playing the race card for everything when its clearly not...it just mucks up the system and when a real racist,sexist,hate crime etc etc comes along people are less prone to act.[/QUOTE]
Exactly. It's like the boy who cried wolf, but unfortunately that's sometimes the only way minorities feel they can get attention brought to their situation is by playing the race card.
Its like when stupid ass black folks start playing the race card for everything when its clearly not...it just mucks up the system and when a real racist,sexist,hate crime etc etc comes along people are less prone to act.[/QUOTE]
Exactly. It's like the boy who cried wolf, but unfortunately that's sometimes the only way minorities feel they can get attention brought to their situation is by playing the race card.
[quote name='Soodmeg']You know what...this case as brought out a lot of pathetic copy cats in the outrage department. Its sad because those idiots dont realize they are hurting the chances of all actually hate crimes when trying so desperately to compare any case that happens to this one.
Its like when stupid ass black folks start playing the race card for everything when its clearly not...it just mucks up the system and when a real racist,sexist,hate crime etc etc comes along people are less prone to act.[/quote]
Our system was built on racism or more specifically, white supremacy. There's simply no way around that fact. Institutions were built on only allowing whites to ascend the socio-economic ladder(discussion of classism is for another thread). Everything is steeped in the social construct of race. It's important to not marginalize voices because they lack the vocabulary to articulate their issues.
The problem isn't black folk that say everything is racist. The problem is people that think racism is dying or that you have hate and wear a hood to be racist. People simply don't understand how racism works. It's a system of oppression and not a defect of the mind. I'm not saying that it's the only system of oppression, but it's right on top with a couple others.
If people want to trot out the "boy who cried wolf," fine. But it doesn't make the claims any less legitimate.
[quote name='IAmTheCheapestGamer']Exactly. It's like the boy who cried wolf, but unfortunately that's sometimes the only way minorities feel they can get attention brought to their situation is by playing the race card.[/QUOTE]
Uhhh...wut? White people play the race card all the
ing time...like denying racism exists or acting like they should be the arbiters of what's racist or not. Look at how dismissive you are by saying that "minorities feel like they can get attention to their situation." Well maybe if people actually paid attention to their plight and worked towards a more equitable society, we wouldn't have these problems...and I'm not talking about being colorblind.
You know what the funny thing is? I can appreciate someone being overtly racist. Sure, I'll call them out and target them, but at least you see them coming. It's the ones that are undercover about it that you really have to worry about.
Its like when stupid ass black folks start playing the race card for everything when its clearly not...it just mucks up the system and when a real racist,sexist,hate crime etc etc comes along people are less prone to act.[/quote]
Our system was built on racism or more specifically, white supremacy. There's simply no way around that fact. Institutions were built on only allowing whites to ascend the socio-economic ladder(discussion of classism is for another thread). Everything is steeped in the social construct of race. It's important to not marginalize voices because they lack the vocabulary to articulate their issues.
The problem isn't black folk that say everything is racist. The problem is people that think racism is dying or that you have hate and wear a hood to be racist. People simply don't understand how racism works. It's a system of oppression and not a defect of the mind. I'm not saying that it's the only system of oppression, but it's right on top with a couple others.
If people want to trot out the "boy who cried wolf," fine. But it doesn't make the claims any less legitimate.
That kid has issues.
[quote name='IAmTheCheapestGamer']Exactly. It's like the boy who cried wolf, but unfortunately that's sometimes the only way minorities feel they can get attention brought to their situation is by playing the race card.
[/QUOTE]Uhhh...wut? White people play the race card all the
ing time...like denying racism exists or acting like they should be the arbiters of what's racist or not. Look at how dismissive you are by saying that "minorities feel like they can get attention to their situation." Well maybe if people actually paid attention to their plight and worked towards a more equitable society, we wouldn't have these problems...and I'm not talking about being colorblind.You know what the funny thing is? I can appreciate someone being overtly racist. Sure, I'll call them out and target them, but at least you see them coming. It's the ones that are undercover about it that you really have to worry about.
P
Pliskin101
Guest
[quote name='Soodmeg']You know what...this case as brought out a lot of pathetic copy cats in the outrage department. Its sad because those idiots dont realize they are hurting the chances of all actually hate crimes when trying so desperately to compare any case that happens to this one.
Its like when stupid ass black folks start playing the race card for everything when its clearly not...it just mucks up the system and when a real racist,sexist,hate crime etc etc comes along people are less prone to act.
Sorry to post this here...i didnt even want to bump slidecage stupid ass post.[/QUOTE]
It does muck things up because it is not coming from a place of fact because of that it will shut people down and out of the conversation. Calling people racist that are not racist does not encourage conversation it does the opposite...wrongly or rightly. I can understand though how some draw lines that are not there due to personal experience and history. Are we there yet as a nation not completely and I really don't think we will ever have a racist free world. But we as a nation have come a long way and yes we have a way to go.
Its like when stupid ass black folks start playing the race card for everything when its clearly not...it just mucks up the system and when a real racist,sexist,hate crime etc etc comes along people are less prone to act.
Sorry to post this here...i didnt even want to bump slidecage stupid ass post.[/QUOTE]
It does muck things up because it is not coming from a place of fact because of that it will shut people down and out of the conversation. Calling people racist that are not racist does not encourage conversation it does the opposite...wrongly or rightly. I can understand though how some draw lines that are not there due to personal experience and history. Are we there yet as a nation not completely and I really don't think we will ever have a racist free world. But we as a nation have come a long way and yes we have a way to go.
Soodmeg
CAGiversary!
[quote name='dohdough']Our system was built on racism or more specifically, white supremacy. There's simply no way around that fact. Institutions were built on only allowing whites to ascend the socio-economic ladder(discussion of classism is for another thread). Everything is steeped in the social construct of race. It's important to not marginalize voices because they lack the vocabulary to articulate their issues.
The problem isn't black folk that say everything is racist. The problem is people that think racism is dying or that you have hate and wear a hood to be racist. People simply don't understand how racism works. It's a system of oppression and not a defect of the mind. I'm not saying that it's the only system of oppression, but it's right on top with a couple others.
If people want to trot out the "boy who cried wolf," fine. But it doesn't make the claims any less legitimate.
That kid has issues.
Uhhh...wut? White people play the race card all theing time...like denying racism exists or acting like they should be the arbiters of what's racist or not. Look at how dismissive you are by saying that "minorities feel like they can get attention to their situation." Well maybe if people actually paid attention to their plight and worked towards a more equitable society, we wouldn't have these problems...and I'm not talking about being colorblind.
[/QUOTE]
Actually what I meant originally was how Slidecage and others have now made it their target to find anyone other injustice currently and toss their hands up and scream "wheres the OUTRAGE!!!!"
Its a very easy tactic that buffoons try to sucker other idiots in on. What it does is disregard both this case and whatever "black guy commits crime against anyone not black where is the outrage" case they are trying to prop up. I try to treat all cases with interest and if any case regardless of race fits the bill I will be outrage....but to try and find any case that even remotely fits the bill just to have a counter devalues both cases. People like slidecage dont actually want to talk about the case...they dont actually have an opinion either way they just want to throw shit at the wall and see what stick. They dont realize that doing doesnt "make the other side" look bad...it screws the entire system and makes it worse.
[quote name='IAmTheCheapestGamer']Exactly. It's like the boy who cried wolf, but unfortunately that's sometimes the only way minorities feel they can get attention brought to their situation is by playing the race card.[/QUOTE]
HA!!!
Dude I have been saying this for YEARS. I call it subtle racism and its the number 1 problem in America and the root of MOST race tension. I am a black 6 foot 1 230 pound solid muscle guy from the inner city of Detroit...do you think I give a shit about a guy in a cloak calling me boy? Even if you did take me out half my old block would show up with techs and spray everyone....people are not really running from overtly racist people anymore especially here in America.
What does scare me...is the people who say..."I have no problem with anyone I have plenty of Muslim (I know its not a race) friends" but they damn sure dont want they daughter coming home with one. Its also not limited too just race...I see and hear a ton of "I love everyone Jesus preaches love....*whisper* did you see thising Catholics? Going to hell...all of them"
Its amazing to see how many people are racist as hell when push comes to shove. You took some Spanish classes in college went on that mission trip to build a church down there, you got yourself a Dos Santos soccer jersey, even have a couple Mexican friends......but the day you hear some wetback is plowing your sister you want to send all back on donkeys.
You basically set up your kids for life to be predisposed to not liking a certain group of people. The worst part is that these people have NO IDEA.
The problem isn't black folk that say everything is racist. The problem is people that think racism is dying or that you have hate and wear a hood to be racist. People simply don't understand how racism works. It's a system of oppression and not a defect of the mind. I'm not saying that it's the only system of oppression, but it's right on top with a couple others.
If people want to trot out the "boy who cried wolf," fine. But it doesn't make the claims any less legitimate.
That kid has issues.
Uhhh...wut? White people play the race card all the
ing time...like denying racism exists or acting like they should be the arbiters of what's racist or not. Look at how dismissive you are by saying that "minorities feel like they can get attention to their situation." Well maybe if people actually paid attention to their plight and worked towards a more equitable society, we wouldn't have these problems...and I'm not talking about being colorblind.[/QUOTE]
Actually what I meant originally was how Slidecage and others have now made it their target to find anyone other injustice currently and toss their hands up and scream "wheres the OUTRAGE!!!!"
Its a very easy tactic that buffoons try to sucker other idiots in on. What it does is disregard both this case and whatever "black guy commits crime against anyone not black where is the outrage" case they are trying to prop up. I try to treat all cases with interest and if any case regardless of race fits the bill I will be outrage....but to try and find any case that even remotely fits the bill just to have a counter devalues both cases. People like slidecage dont actually want to talk about the case...they dont actually have an opinion either way they just want to throw shit at the wall and see what stick. They dont realize that doing doesnt "make the other side" look bad...it screws the entire system and makes it worse.
[quote name='IAmTheCheapestGamer']Exactly. It's like the boy who cried wolf, but unfortunately that's sometimes the only way minorities feel they can get attention brought to their situation is by playing the race card.
[/QUOTE]HA!!!
Dude I have been saying this for YEARS. I call it subtle racism and its the number 1 problem in America and the root of MOST race tension. I am a black 6 foot 1 230 pound solid muscle guy from the inner city of Detroit...do you think I give a shit about a guy in a cloak calling me boy? Even if you did take me out half my old block would show up with techs and spray everyone....people are not really running from overtly racist people anymore especially here in America.
What does scare me...is the people who say..."I have no problem with anyone I have plenty of Muslim (I know its not a race) friends" but they damn sure dont want they daughter coming home with one. Its also not limited too just race...I see and hear a ton of "I love everyone Jesus preaches love....*whisper* did you see this
ing Catholics? Going to hell...all of them"Its amazing to see how many people are racist as hell when push comes to shove. You took some Spanish classes in college went on that mission trip to build a church down there, you got yourself a Dos Santos soccer jersey, even have a couple Mexican friends......but the day you hear some wetback is plowing your sister you want to send all back on donkeys.
You basically set up your kids for life to be predisposed to not liking a certain group of people. The worst part is that these people have NO IDEA.
mykevermin
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All the bickering aside, since this is going to trial I hope that we can all accept that the trial will be handled fairly, uncover evidence, and come to a just conclusion.
The reality is that few people who have decided Zimmerman is guilty or not guilty will change their minds as the result of the trial (those who do not get a favorable outcome will fall back on the usual tropes and denials)...but I can be hopeful, right?
The reality is that few people who have decided Zimmerman is guilty or not guilty will change their minds as the result of the trial (those who do not get a favorable outcome will fall back on the usual tropes and denials)...but I can be hopeful, right?
perdition(troy
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Who actually thinks he isn't guilty though? Dude left his car, followed a kid, and shot him. It doesn't get anymore clear cut than that. The only issue people differ on is if it was a hate crime.
benjamouth
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[quote name='mykevermin']All the bickering aside, since this is going to trial I hope that we can all accept that the trial will be handled fairly, uncover evidence, and come to a just conclusion.
[/QUOTE]
Oh yeah sure, he'll get a fair trial in the center of a media storm, no problem there.
[/QUOTE]
Oh yeah sure, he'll get a fair trial in the center of a media storm, no problem there.
P
Pliskin101
Guest
[quote name='Soodmeg']Actually what I meant originally was how Slidecage and others have now made it their target to find anyone other injustice currently and toss their hands up and scream "wheres the OUTRAGE!!!!"
Its a very easy tactic that buffoons try to sucker other idiots in on. What it does is disregard both this case and whatever "black guy commits crime against anyone not black where is the outrage" case they are trying to prop up. I try to treat all cases with interest and if any case regardless of race fits the bill I will be outrage....but to try and find any case that even remotely fits the bill just to have a counter devalues both cases. People like slidecage dont actually want to talk about the case...they dont actually have an opinion either way they just want to throw shit at the wall and see what stick. They dont realize that doing doesnt "make the other side" look bad...it screws the entire system and makes it worse.
[/QUOTE]
So are you saying dohdough is doing the same thing? Because I think that DD is just throwing shit at a wall like you say.
It is blatant racism here (dd's case) that I see coupled with obsession that isn't even trying to be disguised.
Oops I know you were being subtle but hey say it how it is.
Its a very easy tactic that buffoons try to sucker other idiots in on. What it does is disregard both this case and whatever "black guy commits crime against anyone not black where is the outrage" case they are trying to prop up. I try to treat all cases with interest and if any case regardless of race fits the bill I will be outrage....but to try and find any case that even remotely fits the bill just to have a counter devalues both cases. People like slidecage dont actually want to talk about the case...they dont actually have an opinion either way they just want to throw shit at the wall and see what stick. They dont realize that doing doesnt "make the other side" look bad...it screws the entire system and makes it worse.
[/QUOTE]
So are you saying dohdough is doing the same thing? Because I think that DD is just throwing shit at a wall like you say.
It is blatant racism here (dd's case) that I see coupled with obsession that isn't even trying to be disguised.
Oops I know you were being subtle but hey say it how it is.
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Purple Flames
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[quote name='perdition(troy']Who actually thinks he isn't guilty though? Dude left his car, followed a kid, and shot him. It doesn't get anymore clear cut than that. The only issue people differ on is if it was a hate crime.[/QUOTE]
You'd be suprised. I got into it yesterday with a guy who seems the think that all of the evidence against Zimmerman isn't evidence at all and played the tried and true "wait until all of the facts come through" card, which just goes to show how dense some people choose to be on matters such as this.
You'd be suprised. I got into it yesterday with a guy who seems the think that all of the evidence against Zimmerman isn't evidence at all and played the tried and true "wait until all of the facts come through" card, which just goes to show how dense some people choose to be on matters such as this.
P
Pliskin101
Guest
[quote name='Purple Flames']You'd be suprised. I got into it yesterday with a guy who seems the think that all of the evidence against Zimmerman isn't evidence at all and played the tried and true "wait until all of the facts come through" card, which just goes to show how dense some people choose to be on matters such as this.[/QUOTE]
Yep in the court of public opinion you will get all types. There are always ones that play Race cards and guilty cards, ufo cards, innocent cards...oops did I say that? Even I am guilty of thinking zimmerman is guilty but with failure tried to qualify it with.."to the total extent exactly I am not sure yet". Afterall in America we are all guilty until proven innocent.
Yep in the court of public opinion you will get all types. There are always ones that play Race cards and guilty cards, ufo cards, innocent cards...oops did I say that? Even I am guilty of thinking zimmerman is guilty but with failure tried to qualify it with.."to the total extent exactly I am not sure yet". Afterall in America we are all guilty until proven innocent.
[quote name='Pliskin101']So are you saying dohdough is doing the same thing? Because I think we all know that DD is just throwing shit at a wall like you say.
It is blatant racism here (dd's case) that I see coupled with obsession that isn't even trying to be disguised.
Oops I know you were being subtle but hey say it how it is.[/QUOTE]
HAAHAHAH....wow! It's almost if I called this more than two weeks ago!
[quote name='2 weeks ago, dohdough said this:']
[quote name='Pliskin101']I have not had a chance to go through all the posts yet but I hope you got lambasted for this.
First the "white guy" statement and second the "jumping to conclusions" thing.
Your post alone proves we DO NOT live in a post-racial society as the first thing you did (here anyway) is make it a racial thing.[/QUOTE]
HAHAHA...you want to use a variant on the "you're the REAL racist for seeing/talking about race" argument? Oh man...you're tooin much.
I should really stop because I can only deal with so many ingrates at a time.[/quote]
Now if only you didn't delete all your posts, so you could hide behind the veneer of there not being any proof. Oh wai...
It is blatant racism here (dd's case) that I see coupled with obsession that isn't even trying to be disguised.
Oops I know you were being subtle but hey say it how it is.[/QUOTE]
HAAHAHAH....wow! It's almost if I called this more than two weeks ago!
[quote name='2 weeks ago, dohdough said this:']
[quote name='Pliskin101']I have not had a chance to go through all the posts yet but I hope you got lambasted for this.
First the "white guy" statement and second the "jumping to conclusions" thing.
Your post alone proves we DO NOT live in a post-racial society as the first thing you did (here anyway) is make it a racial thing.[/QUOTE]
HAHAHA...you want to use a variant on the "you're the REAL racist for seeing/talking about race" argument? Oh man...you're too
in much.So if it wasn't Martin being black, are you saying that it's his hoodie that made him suspicious? And if it was because Zimmerman didn't recognize him, does Zimmerman stalk everyone he sees that comes close to his neighborhood?
I should really stop because I can only deal with so many ingrates at a time.[/quote]
Now if only you didn't delete all your posts, so you could hide behind the veneer of there not being any proof. Oh wai...
perdition(troy
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Other than the fact that Zimmerman left his car, then shot him in the ensuing scuffle. There really isn't anything to argue. He should have never left his car, and then Trayvon wouldn't be dead and he wouldn't be in the mess that he is.
perdition(troy
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What I quoted was Pliskin101, apparently he deleted his post before I posted.
mykevermin
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I'm pretty sure we can all agree that it's time to not even engage with plisken101.
Come along, it's a fun time on the ignorewagon, folks.
Come along, it's a fun time on the ignorewagon, folks.
[quote name='mykevermin']All the bickering aside, since this is going to trial I hope that we can all accept that the trial will be handled fairly, uncover evidence, and come to a just conclusion.
The reality is that few people who have decided Zimmerman is guilty or not guilty will change their minds as the result of the trial (those who do not get a favorable outcome will fall back on the usual tropes and denials)...but I can be hopeful, right?[/QUOTE]
2nd degree murder is minimum 25 to life and manslaughter is minimum 16 years both with no possibility of parole as Florida got rid of that. The only good thing about going to trial is having all the facts come out about the injuries. As for a just conclusion, the only thing I can say about it is that at least he went throught the system. Other than that, I don't have faith in the system being just.
[quote name='perdition(troy']Who actually thinks he isn't guilty though? Dude left his car, followed a kid, and shot him. It doesn't get anymore clear cut than that. The only issue people differ on is if it was a hate crime.[/QUOTE]
You'd be surprised at how many people think Martin was the aggressor and deserved to be shot for "look like a thug; get treated like a thug," which is code for N****rs DIE!!!! If you have the stomach, you should read the comments on some articles.
The reality is that few people who have decided Zimmerman is guilty or not guilty will change their minds as the result of the trial (those who do not get a favorable outcome will fall back on the usual tropes and denials)...but I can be hopeful, right?[/QUOTE]
2nd degree murder is minimum 25 to life and manslaughter is minimum 16 years both with no possibility of parole as Florida got rid of that. The only good thing about going to trial is having all the facts come out about the injuries. As for a just conclusion, the only thing I can say about it is that at least he went throught the system. Other than that, I don't have faith in the system being just.
[quote name='perdition(troy']Who actually thinks he isn't guilty though? Dude left his car, followed a kid, and shot him. It doesn't get anymore clear cut than that. The only issue people differ on is if it was a hate crime.[/QUOTE]
You'd be surprised at how many people think Martin was the aggressor and deserved to be shot for "look like a thug; get treated like a thug," which is code for N****rs DIE!!!! If you have the stomach, you should read the comments on some articles.
[quote name='dohdough']2nd degree murder is minimum 25 to life and manslaughter is minimum 16 years both with no possibility of parole as Florida got rid of that. The only good thing about going to trial is having all the facts come out about the injuries. As for a just conclusion, the only thing I can say about it is that at least he went throught the system. Other than that, I don't have faith in the system being just.
You'd be surprised at how many people think Martin was the aggressor and deserved to be shot for "look like a thug; get treated like a thug," which is code for N****rs DIE!!!! If you have the stomach, you should read the comments on some articles.[/QUOTE]
Jeez.. I hope I don't fall into that catagory!
Nothing is more depressing then reading comments on a yahoo! article or a youtube video... I'll give you that.
While I'm not sure why it bothered me so much I just wish from Day 1 there had been a more accurate reporting of the incidents AND the people involved from both sides with less outrage and outcry.
Now that he has been officially charged with 2nd Degree Murder (I think it would have been more fitting and more likely for a conviction if charged with manslaughter) where do you stand dohdough?
Do you think this or any charge for that matter would have come WITHOUT the parents and public outcry?
If he walks on the murder 2 charge will that be the end of it?
^ Please don't take those at bait; just truly curious
IMO I don't think he should be charged with murder 2 but a lesser manslaughter charged--but honestly I'm not too concerned with the court outcome... that's more icing on the cake if you will.
What I'd like to see come from this is an impact on the laws that allow someone like Zimmerman to openly carry a gun and such silly stand your ground laws where there is such open interpretation on what constitues being "threatened"
You'd be surprised at how many people think Martin was the aggressor and deserved to be shot for "look like a thug; get treated like a thug," which is code for N****rs DIE!!!! If you have the stomach, you should read the comments on some articles.[/QUOTE]
Jeez.. I hope I don't fall into that catagory!
Nothing is more depressing then reading comments on a yahoo! article or a youtube video... I'll give you that.
While I'm not sure why it bothered me so much I just wish from Day 1 there had been a more accurate reporting of the incidents AND the people involved from both sides with less outrage and outcry.
Now that he has been officially charged with 2nd Degree Murder (I think it would have been more fitting and more likely for a conviction if charged with manslaughter) where do you stand dohdough?
Do you think this or any charge for that matter would have come WITHOUT the parents and public outcry?
If he walks on the murder 2 charge will that be the end of it?
^ Please don't take those at bait; just truly curious
IMO I don't think he should be charged with murder 2 but a lesser manslaughter charged--but honestly I'm not too concerned with the court outcome... that's more icing on the cake if you will.
What I'd like to see come from this is an impact on the laws that allow someone like Zimmerman to openly carry a gun and such silly stand your ground laws where there is such open interpretation on what constitues being "threatened"
[quote name='perdition(troy']Other than the fact that Zimmerman left his car, then shot him in the ensuing scuffle. There really isn't anything to argue. He should have never left his car, and then Trayvon wouldn't be dead and he wouldn't be in the mess that he is.[/QUOTE]
Yep, and that's why he got the murder 2 charge rather than manslaughter.
That and it gives them leeway to try to get him to take a plea deal for manslaughter instead of the murder 2.
Yep, and that's why he got the murder 2 charge rather than manslaughter.
That and it gives them leeway to try to get him to take a plea deal for manslaughter instead of the murder 2.
[quote name='GBAstar']Jeez.. I hope I don't fall into that catagory!
Nothing is more depressing then reading comments on a yahoo! article or a youtube video... I'll give you that.
While I'm not sure why it bothered me so much I just wish from Day 1 there had been a more accurate reporting of the incidents AND the people involved from both sides with less outrage and outcry.[/quote]
There wouldn't have been that much of an outcry if the higher-ups didn't decide to sweep it underthe rug and let this guy walk against the recommendation of the lead investigator, police didn't tamper/coerce witness testimony, police chief didn't make stupid comments, didn't lie to Martin's family about Zimmerman's criminal history, and a whole slew of other things that lead to this perfect storm of obfuscation. And you're still comparing public outrage to get the wheels of the justice system moving on Zimmerman to those that think Martin deserved to get shot. That shit is not even close to being equivalent.
Best case scenario, he plea bargains down to manslaughter(there's no involuntary/voluntary difference in Florida). Worse case scenario, he walks out not-guilty. As for what I think is going to happen, I call hung jury and he walks.
Nothing is more depressing then reading comments on a yahoo! article or a youtube video... I'll give you that.
While I'm not sure why it bothered me so much I just wish from Day 1 there had been a more accurate reporting of the incidents AND the people involved from both sides with less outrage and outcry.[/quote]
There wouldn't have been that much of an outcry if the higher-ups didn't decide to sweep it underthe rug and let this guy walk against the recommendation of the lead investigator, police didn't tamper/coerce witness testimony, police chief didn't make stupid comments, didn't lie to Martin's family about Zimmerman's criminal history, and a whole slew of other things that lead to this perfect storm of obfuscation. And you're still comparing public outrage to get the wheels of the justice system moving on Zimmerman to those that think Martin deserved to get shot. That shit is not even close to being equivalent.
Best case scenario, he plea bargains down to manslaughter(there's no involuntary/voluntary difference in Florida). Worse case scenario, he walks out not-guilty. As for what I think is going to happen, I call hung jury and he walks.
Of course not. The state DA that was in charge of the case told them to drop it within a week.
Depends.
How's that icing on the cake? Getting him arrested and answering in court is merely prepping the ingredients.
I'll agree with you here, but the really US needs to address the issue of race.
P
Pliskin101
Guest
[quote name='mykevermin']I'm pretty sure we can all agree that it's time to not even engage with plisken101.
Come along, it's a fun time on the ignorewagon, folks.[/QUOTE]
Yeah lets all get on those bandwagons. Gee it isn't like your crew doesn't do that with everything.
You are a frickin JOKE!!!
Come along, it's a fun time on the ignorewagon, folks.[/QUOTE]
Yeah lets all get on those bandwagons. Gee it isn't like your crew doesn't do that with everything.
You are a frickin JOKE!!!
P
Pliskin101
Guest
[quote name='perdition(troy']O There really isn't anything to argue.[/QUOTE]
Yep because only your OPINION is the right one. If there was nothing to argue we could just hang him from the flagpole in the courtyard. Right, RIGHT??
oh and here I'll post it again since the first one is gone..
...Yep in the court of public opinion you will get all types. There are always ones that play Race cards and guilty cards, ufo cards, innocent cards...oops did I say that? Even I am guilty of thinking zimmerman is guilty but with failure tried to qualify it with.."to the total extent exactly I am not sure yet". Afterall in America we are all guilty until proven innocent.
Yep because only your OPINION is the right one. If there was nothing to argue we could just hang him from the flagpole in the courtyard. Right, RIGHT??
oh and here I'll post it again since the first one is gone..
...Yep in the court of public opinion you will get all types. There are always ones that play Race cards and guilty cards, ufo cards, innocent cards...oops did I say that? Even I am guilty of thinking zimmerman is guilty but with failure tried to qualify it with.."to the total extent exactly I am not sure yet". Afterall in America we are all guilty until proven innocent.
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perdition(troy
CAGiversary!
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Pliskin101, is Trayvon dead?
[quote name='Pliskin101']You are a frickin JOKE!!![/QUOTE]
Mykevermin walks into a bar, says ouch
Ok, at least you can be right about something now...
There's a story on yahoo right now about whether or not GZ is actually safer in jail than wherever he was hiding. How much you want to be that he's in solitary just to keep him away from others?
Mykevermin walks into a bar, says ouch
Ok, at least you can be right about something now...
There's a story on yahoo right now about whether or not GZ is actually safer in jail than wherever he was hiding. How much you want to be that he's in solitary just to keep him away from others?
[quote name='nasum']Mykevermin walks into a bar, says ouch
Ok, at least you can be right about something now...
There's a story on yahoo right now about whether or not GZ is actually safer in jail than wherever he was hiding. How much you want to be that he's in solitary just to keep him away from others?[/QUOTE]
There is no way in hell this guy isn't in his own cell. Any time he spends incarcerated will be segregated from gen pop.ing yahoo amirite? LOLZ
Ok, at least you can be right about something now...
There's a story on yahoo right now about whether or not GZ is actually safer in jail than wherever he was hiding. How much you want to be that he's in solitary just to keep him away from others?[/QUOTE]
There is no way in hell this guy isn't in his own cell. Any time he spends incarcerated will be segregated from gen pop.
ing yahoo amirite? LOLZ
P
Pliskin101
Guest
[quote name='nasum']Mykevermin walks into a bar, says ouch
Ok, at least you can be right about something now...
There's a story on yahoo right now about whether or not GZ is actually safer in jail than wherever he was hiding. How much you want to be that he's in solitary just to keep him away from others?[/QUOTE]
Yea I thought about that one I am pretty sure he is in soliatary or should be.
As far as my post to mykevermin it is my opinion (the same with dohdough and other things)....but see I didn't try to drum up some BS ignorewagon same with dohdough. While I have put DD on my ignorelist I didn't try to get others to do it as well. If you don't like my opinion then fine but playing schoolyard BS and lets all gang up on someone BS is another story.
Ok, at least you can be right about something now...
There's a story on yahoo right now about whether or not GZ is actually safer in jail than wherever he was hiding. How much you want to be that he's in solitary just to keep him away from others?[/QUOTE]
Yea I thought about that one I am pretty sure he is in soliatary or should be.
As far as my post to mykevermin it is my opinion (the same with dohdough and other things)....but see I didn't try to drum up some BS ignorewagon same with dohdough. While I have put DD on my ignorelist I didn't try to get others to do it as well. If you don't like my opinion then fine but playing schoolyard BS and lets all gang up on someone BS is another story.
So on Talk of the Nation they're discussing this. Before this actually goes to trial a judge has to decide whether or not the stand your ground law applies here, what that hinges on is basically who the aggressor was. Apparently that was one of the big things that was changed in Florida, before a jury would have determined that, not a judge. One of the gentlemen on the show seems to think that Zimmerman wasn't acting aggressive, saying that following and pursuing someone isn't an aggressive act. That even if he grabbed Martin and demanded to know what he was doing, that isn't an aggressive act. That it's perfectly fine to track someone and basically interrogate them about why they're there in the neighborhood.
I don't know about any of you, but if someone was following me as I walked through a neighborhood, I'd fell threatened, and I think most people would. In fact if that had been me I probably would have called the police and reported someone following me.
I don't know about any of you, but if someone was following me as I walked through a neighborhood, I'd fell threatened, and I think most people would. In fact if that had been me I probably would have called the police and reported someone following me.
IAmTheCheapestGamer
Banned
[quote name='Soodmeg']
HA!!!
Dude I have been saying this for YEARS. I call it subtle racism and its the number 1 problem in America and the root of MOST race tension. I am a black 6 foot 1 230 pound solid muscle guy from the inner city of Detroit...do you think I give a shit about a guy in a cloak calling me boy? Even if you did take me out half my old block would show up with techs and spray everyone....people are not really running from overtly racist people anymore especially here in America.
What does scare me...is the people who say..."I have no problem with anyone I have plenty of Muslim (I know its not a race) friends" but they damn sure dont want they daughter coming home with one. Its also not limited too just race...I see and hear a ton of "I love everyone Jesus preaches love....*whisper* did you see thising Catholics? Going to hell...all of them"
Its amazing to see how many people are racist as hell when push comes to shove. You took some Spanish classes in college went on that mission trip to build a church down there, you got yourself a Dos Santos soccer jersey, even have a couple Mexican friends......but the day you hear some wetback is plowing your sister you want to send all back on donkeys.
You basically set up your kids for life to be predisposed to not liking a certain group of people. The worst part is that these people have NO IDEA.[/QUOTE]
Actually I'll be the first to admit that I don't have any friends who are anything other than caucasian/white. That is, unless the one gaming rep at BB counts as a friend. It comes down to trust issues with me. It takes a LOT for me to even consider having someone as a friend due to all of the times people I thought were friends of mine who turned into backstabbing assholes.
As for not liking certain groups of people, the only folks I may have a dislike of are non English speakers. But only because they can't understand when I say 'excuse me' to try getting by them in a store. And no, I'm not about to learn THEIR language just so I can tell them to get outta my way in a store. Call it ignorant or whatever you want to, but if you immigrated here for a better life then you should assimilate and not expect everyone else to kowtow to you.
HA!!!
Dude I have been saying this for YEARS. I call it subtle racism and its the number 1 problem in America and the root of MOST race tension. I am a black 6 foot 1 230 pound solid muscle guy from the inner city of Detroit...do you think I give a shit about a guy in a cloak calling me boy? Even if you did take me out half my old block would show up with techs and spray everyone....people are not really running from overtly racist people anymore especially here in America.
What does scare me...is the people who say..."I have no problem with anyone I have plenty of Muslim (I know its not a race) friends" but they damn sure dont want they daughter coming home with one. Its also not limited too just race...I see and hear a ton of "I love everyone Jesus preaches love....*whisper* did you see this
ing Catholics? Going to hell...all of them"Its amazing to see how many people are racist as hell when push comes to shove. You took some Spanish classes in college went on that mission trip to build a church down there, you got yourself a Dos Santos soccer jersey, even have a couple Mexican friends......but the day you hear some wetback is plowing your sister you want to send all back on donkeys.
You basically set up your kids for life to be predisposed to not liking a certain group of people. The worst part is that these people have NO IDEA.[/QUOTE]
Actually I'll be the first to admit that I don't have any friends who are anything other than caucasian/white. That is, unless the one gaming rep at BB counts as a friend. It comes down to trust issues with me. It takes a LOT for me to even consider having someone as a friend due to all of the times people I thought were friends of mine who turned into backstabbing assholes.
As for not liking certain groups of people, the only folks I may have a dislike of are non English speakers. But only because they can't understand when I say 'excuse me' to try getting by them in a store. And no, I'm not about to learn THEIR language just so I can tell them to get outta my way in a store. Call it ignorant or whatever you want to, but if you immigrated here for a better life then you should assimilate and not expect everyone else to kowtow to you.
4thHorseman
CAGiversary!
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[quote name='IAmTheCheapestGamer']
As for not liking certain groups of people, the only folks I may have a dislike of are non English speakers. But only because they can't understand when I say 'excuse me' to try getting by them in a store. And no, I'm not about to learn THEIR language just so I can tell them to get outta my way in a store. Call it ignorant or whatever you want to, but if you immigrated here for a better life then you should assimilate and not expect everyone else to kowtow to you.[/QUOTE]
The things that bother me the most are probably the most stereotypical things people of a certain race do. But it's not just that race, I see people of every race do it. Doesn't matter what race they are, it just bugs the shit out of me. Like people who have baggy pants that they constantly pull up or have to hold on to while running. Just want to smack the piss out of them. Get some damn pants that fit!
Regarding the speaking english thing, but as someone who does customer service and speaks with people from most states in the US, this is something I think mostly spanish speaking people do. I've never had a german, italian, french, or asian person ask if I speak their language, but we use an interpretation service solely for spanish speakers. Which is fine, whatever. My complaint is they have a kid who clearly has English as their first language. Meaning they've probably been in the US long enough that they should know at least some basic language beyond "Speak spanish?"
As for not liking certain groups of people, the only folks I may have a dislike of are non English speakers. But only because they can't understand when I say 'excuse me' to try getting by them in a store. And no, I'm not about to learn THEIR language just so I can tell them to get outta my way in a store. Call it ignorant or whatever you want to, but if you immigrated here for a better life then you should assimilate and not expect everyone else to kowtow to you.[/QUOTE]
The things that bother me the most are probably the most stereotypical things people of a certain race do. But it's not just that race, I see people of every race do it. Doesn't matter what race they are, it just bugs the shit out of me. Like people who have baggy pants that they constantly pull up or have to hold on to while running. Just want to smack the piss out of them. Get some damn pants that fit!
Regarding the speaking english thing, but as someone who does customer service and speaks with people from most states in the US, this is something I think mostly spanish speaking people do. I've never had a german, italian, french, or asian person ask if I speak their language, but we use an interpretation service solely for spanish speakers. Which is fine, whatever. My complaint is they have a kid who clearly has English as their first language. Meaning they've probably been in the US long enough that they should know at least some basic language beyond "Speak spanish?"
IAmTheCheapestGamer
Banned
[quote name='4thHorseman']The things that bother me the most are probably the most stereotypical things people of a certain race do. But it's not just that race, I see people of every race do it. Doesn't matter what race they are, it just bugs the shit out of me. Like people who have baggy pants that they constantly pull up or have to hold on to while running. Just want to smack the piss out of them. Get some damn pants that fit!
Regarding the speaking english thing, but as someone who does customer service and speaks with people from most states in the US, this is something I think mostly spanish speaking people do. I've never had a german, italian, french, or asian person ask if I speak their language, but we use an interpretation service solely for spanish speakers. Which is fine, whatever. My complaint is they have a kid who clearly has English as their first language. Meaning they've probably been in the US long enough that they should know at least some basic language beyond "Speak spanish?"[/QUOTE]
With the burgeoning Hispanic population in this area, the local school districts had to begin hiring ESL(English as a second language) teachers to teach the kids of these immigrants at an added cost to taxpayers. Yet from what I've seen many of these families only RENT their homes/apartments they live in. So in the end, they are NOT paying into the programs teaching these kids and essentially stealing services.
I just wonder what prior generations of immigrants did to learn English and assimilate, but it just seems to me like this current wave coming in now want everything handed to them. I guess you could say that on that level they're learning to become true greedy/selfish Americans right out of the gate.:lol: It's just sickening/maddening to put up with at times.
Regarding the speaking english thing, but as someone who does customer service and speaks with people from most states in the US, this is something I think mostly spanish speaking people do. I've never had a german, italian, french, or asian person ask if I speak their language, but we use an interpretation service solely for spanish speakers. Which is fine, whatever. My complaint is they have a kid who clearly has English as their first language. Meaning they've probably been in the US long enough that they should know at least some basic language beyond "Speak spanish?"[/QUOTE]
With the burgeoning Hispanic population in this area, the local school districts had to begin hiring ESL(English as a second language) teachers to teach the kids of these immigrants at an added cost to taxpayers. Yet from what I've seen many of these families only RENT their homes/apartments they live in. So in the end, they are NOT paying into the programs teaching these kids and essentially stealing services.
I just wonder what prior generations of immigrants did to learn English and assimilate, but it just seems to me like this current wave coming in now want everything handed to them. I guess you could say that on that level they're learning to become true greedy/selfish Americans right out of the gate.:lol: It's just sickening/maddening to put up with at times.
P
Pliskin101
Guest
This may already be posted in the 600 posts on this thread but when I asked for it nobody said anything.
Is this the same police chief and da that stepped down from zimmermans case involved in this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=BHGEam82GME#!
http://www.wftv.com/news/news/sanford-cops-son-arrested-after-2007-shooting/nFCpc/
I also heard that zimmermanofficers he wanted to be in trouble. If this is not correct and some BS then I will delete the post.
Is this the same police chief and da that stepped down from zimmermans case involved in this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=BHGEam82GME#!
http://www.wftv.com/news/news/sanford-cops-son-arrested-after-2007-shooting/nFCpc/
I also heard that zimmermanofficers he wanted to be in trouble. If this is not correct and some BS then I will delete the post.
P
Pliskin101
Guest
Has anyone posted this video?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHGEam82GME
If so sorry.
Hint hint dig deeper into all this to see some interesting items in this story here. That may or may not aide in some things around zimemrman and the police department.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHGEam82GME
If so sorry.
Hint hint dig deeper into all this to see some interesting items in this story here. That may or may not aide in some things around zimemrman and the police department.
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Are you smarter then Mike Tyson?
It's a disgrace that man hasn't been dragged out of his house and tied to a car and taken away. That's the only kind of retribution that people like that understand. It's a disgrace that man hasn't been shot yet. Forget about him being arrested--the fact that he hasn't been shot yet is a disgrace. That's how I feel personally about it."
Full Story
I got a chuckle out of how the article ended (typical grade A Reporting):
In 1992, Tyson was convicted of raping Desiree Washington, a beauty pageant contestant, and served three years in prison.
Oh well. Don't worry if you didn't enjoy the article there are 19,000+ "well-informed" comments you can read through to wet your appetite
It's a disgrace that man hasn't been dragged out of his house and tied to a car and taken away. That's the only kind of retribution that people like that understand. It's a disgrace that man hasn't been shot yet. Forget about him being arrested--the fact that he hasn't been shot yet is a disgrace. That's how I feel personally about it."
Full Story
I got a chuckle out of how the article ended (typical grade A Reporting):
In 1992, Tyson was convicted of raping Desiree Washington, a beauty pageant contestant, and served three years in prison.
Oh well. Don't worry if you didn't enjoy the article there are 19,000+ "well-informed" comments you can read through to wet your appetite
[quote name='GBAstar']Are you smarter then Mike Tyson?
It's a disgrace that man hasn't been dragged out of his house and tied to a car and taken away. That's the only kind of retribution that people like that understand. It's a disgrace that man hasn't been shot yet. Forget about him being arrested--the fact that he hasn't been shot yet is a disgrace. That's how I feel personally about it."
Full Story
I got a chuckle out of how the article ended (typical grade A Reporting):
In 1992, Tyson was convicted of raping Desiree Washington, a beauty pageant contestant, and served three years in prison.
Oh well. Don't worry if you didn't enjoy the article there are 19,000+ "well-informed" comments you can read through to wet your appetite[/QUOTE]
Playing troll again? How about some opinions from some neo-Nazi's to balance that shit out.
And oh hey look! Here's a case where the shooter was black and the victim was white:
http://www.salon.com/2012/04/11/when_stand_your_ground_fails/singleton/
It's a disgrace that man hasn't been dragged out of his house and tied to a car and taken away. That's the only kind of retribution that people like that understand. It's a disgrace that man hasn't been shot yet. Forget about him being arrested--the fact that he hasn't been shot yet is a disgrace. That's how I feel personally about it."
Full Story
I got a chuckle out of how the article ended (typical grade A Reporting):
In 1992, Tyson was convicted of raping Desiree Washington, a beauty pageant contestant, and served three years in prison.
Oh well. Don't worry if you didn't enjoy the article there are 19,000+ "well-informed" comments you can read through to wet your appetite[/QUOTE]
Playing troll again? How about some opinions from some neo-Nazi's to balance that shit out.
And oh hey look! Here's a case where the shooter was black and the victim was white:
http://www.salon.com/2012/04/11/when_stand_your_ground_fails/singleton/
[quote name='dohdough']Playing troll again? How about some opinions from some neo-Nazi's to balance that shit out.
And oh hey look! Here's a case where the shooter was black and the victim was white:
http://www.salon.com/2012/04/11/when_stand_your_ground_fails/singleton/[/QUOTE]
If I'm trolling it is only against yahoo! news and perhaps Mike Tyson. Unless convicted rapists and other criminals are the go to spokes people for the black community
And oh hey look! Here's a case where the shooter was black and the victim was white:
http://www.salon.com/2012/04/11/when_stand_your_ground_fails/singleton/[/QUOTE]
If I'm trolling it is only against yahoo! news and perhaps Mike Tyson. Unless convicted rapists and other criminals are the go to spokes people for the black community
[quote name='dohdough']Playing troll again? How about some opinions from some neo-Nazi's to balance that shit out.
And oh hey look! Here's a case where the shooter was black and the victim was white:
http://www.salon.com/2012/04/11/when_stand_your_ground_fails/singleton/[/QUOTE]
You might want to research that a little more...
from the case file:
On the way back he [McNeil] reported to an emergency 911 operator that a man was on his property and had pulled a knife on his son. Moments later, McNeil told the operator, “I'm at the property now ․ and there's the builder and I may get ready to whip his ass right now. So get the cops here now.” As McNeil was pulling into his driveway, he retrieved an automatic handgun from his car's glove compartment, removed it from its case, and loaded it with ammunition.
Epp was in the yard between McNeil's house and the one next door and walking toward McNeil. McNeil continued to back up with his hands pointed toward the ground and said “Back up, I am not playing with you.” Epp increased his speed toward McNeil and McNeil raised his gun and fired at Epp's head. Epp's hands were at his sides, and the eyewitness did not see him raise his hands or see any weapons in his hands.
If you want to read the actual events you can here:
http://caselaw.findlaw.com/ga-supreme-court/1418360.html
While I don't agree with the verdict it sounds to me like his comments to the 911 operator could be proved that McNeil was ready to take preemptive action regardless.
Also did this happen in Florida or Georgia?
And oh hey look! Here's a case where the shooter was black and the victim was white:
http://www.salon.com/2012/04/11/when_stand_your_ground_fails/singleton/[/QUOTE]
You might want to research that a little more...
from the case file:
On the way back he [McNeil] reported to an emergency 911 operator that a man was on his property and had pulled a knife on his son. Moments later, McNeil told the operator, “I'm at the property now ․ and there's the builder and I may get ready to whip his ass right now. So get the cops here now.” As McNeil was pulling into his driveway, he retrieved an automatic handgun from his car's glove compartment, removed it from its case, and loaded it with ammunition.
Epp was in the yard between McNeil's house and the one next door and walking toward McNeil. McNeil continued to back up with his hands pointed toward the ground and said “Back up, I am not playing with you.” Epp increased his speed toward McNeil and McNeil raised his gun and fired at Epp's head. Epp's hands were at his sides, and the eyewitness did not see him raise his hands or see any weapons in his hands.
If you want to read the actual events you can here:
http://caselaw.findlaw.com/ga-supreme-court/1418360.html
While I don't agree with the verdict it sounds to me like his comments to the 911 operator could be proved that McNeil was ready to take preemptive action regardless.
Also did this happen in Florida or Georgia?
and it gets better:
The evidence was sufficient to enable a rational trier of fact to find McNeil guilty of all of the crimes for which he was convicted beyond a reasonable doubt. Jackson v. Virginia, 443 U.S. 307, 99 S.Ct. 2781, 61 L.Ed.2d 560 (1979). See also, e.g., Jolley v. State, 254 Ga. 624(1), 331 S.E.2d 516 (1985) (despite claim of self-defense, evidence supported felony murder conviction based on aggravated assault where defendant retrieved pistol in anticipation of confrontation and told victim to leave before shooting him). Indeed, from the evidence presented, the jury was authorized to conclude that McNeil decided to confront Epp with the specific purpose of “whip[ping] his ass” before Epp even knew that McNeil was on his way to the scene; that McNeil had time to stop in his driveway, retrieve a gun from his glove compartment, take the gun out of its case, load it, exit from his car, and “argue loudly” with Epp for a few minutes before firing the first shot at him; and that McNeil lied to police when he claimed that he had shot Epp because Epp had “pulled a knife on him” during the confrontation (because other eyewitness testimony showed that Epp had no weapon in his hands at the time of the shooting, and further testimony showed that Epp's knife was folded and in his pocket after he had been shot). Because “[w]itness credibility is a matter to be determined by the jury, as is the question of justification; ․ the jury was free to accept the evidence that the shooting[ ][was] not done in self-defense ․ and to reject any evidence offered by [McNeil] in support of a justification defense.” (Citation omitted.) Harris v. State, 279 Ga. 304, 306(2), 612 S.E.2d 789 (2005). As sufficient evidence existed to support the conclusion that McNeil committed the offense of aggravated assault, and felony murder predicated on that aggravated assault, there is no basis for overturning the jury's verdict here.2
The evidence was sufficient to enable a rational trier of fact to find McNeil guilty of all of the crimes for which he was convicted beyond a reasonable doubt. Jackson v. Virginia, 443 U.S. 307, 99 S.Ct. 2781, 61 L.Ed.2d 560 (1979). See also, e.g., Jolley v. State, 254 Ga. 624(1), 331 S.E.2d 516 (1985) (despite claim of self-defense, evidence supported felony murder conviction based on aggravated assault where defendant retrieved pistol in anticipation of confrontation and told victim to leave before shooting him). Indeed, from the evidence presented, the jury was authorized to conclude that McNeil decided to confront Epp with the specific purpose of “whip[ping] his ass” before Epp even knew that McNeil was on his way to the scene; that McNeil had time to stop in his driveway, retrieve a gun from his glove compartment, take the gun out of its case, load it, exit from his car, and “argue loudly” with Epp for a few minutes before firing the first shot at him; and that McNeil lied to police when he claimed that he had shot Epp because Epp had “pulled a knife on him” during the confrontation (because other eyewitness testimony showed that Epp had no weapon in his hands at the time of the shooting, and further testimony showed that Epp's knife was folded and in his pocket after he had been shot). Because “[w]itness credibility is a matter to be determined by the jury, as is the question of justification; ․ the jury was free to accept the evidence that the shooting[ ][was] not done in self-defense ․ and to reject any evidence offered by [McNeil] in support of a justification defense.” (Citation omitted.) Harris v. State, 279 Ga. 304, 306(2), 612 S.E.2d 789 (2005). As sufficient evidence existed to support the conclusion that McNeil committed the offense of aggravated assault, and felony murder predicated on that aggravated assault, there is no basis for overturning the jury's verdict here.2
[quote name='GBAstar']You might want to research that a little more...
from the case file:
On the way back he [McNeil] reported to an emergency 911 operator that a man was on his property and had pulled a knife on his son. Moments later, McNeil told the operator, “I'm at the property now ․ and there's the builder and I may get ready to whip his ass right now. So get the cops here now.” As McNeil was pulling into his driveway, he retrieved an automatic handgun from his car's glove compartment, removed it from its case, and loaded it with ammunition.
Epp was in the yard between McNeil's house and the one next door and walking toward McNeil. McNeil continued to back up with his hands pointed toward the ground and said “Back up, I am not playing with you.” Epp increased his speed toward McNeil and McNeil raised his gun and fired at Epp's head. Epp's hands were at his sides, and the eyewitness did not see him raise his hands or see any weapons in his hands.
If you want to read the actual events you can here:
http://caselaw.findlaw.com/ga-supreme-court/1418360.html
While I don't agree with the verdict it sounds to me like his comments to the 911 operator could be proved that McNeil was ready to take preemptive action regardless.
Also did this happen in Florida or Georgia?[/QUOTE]
Yeah, it's not like the son was threatened with a knife right?
edit: Does it matter where it happened? Weren't you one of those people bitching about "if roles were reversed" blah blah blah. Not only did this guy get convicted, heing got life.
from the case file:
On the way back he [McNeil] reported to an emergency 911 operator that a man was on his property and had pulled a knife on his son. Moments later, McNeil told the operator, “I'm at the property now ․ and there's the builder and I may get ready to whip his ass right now. So get the cops here now.” As McNeil was pulling into his driveway, he retrieved an automatic handgun from his car's glove compartment, removed it from its case, and loaded it with ammunition.
Epp was in the yard between McNeil's house and the one next door and walking toward McNeil. McNeil continued to back up with his hands pointed toward the ground and said “Back up, I am not playing with you.” Epp increased his speed toward McNeil and McNeil raised his gun and fired at Epp's head. Epp's hands were at his sides, and the eyewitness did not see him raise his hands or see any weapons in his hands.
If you want to read the actual events you can here:
http://caselaw.findlaw.com/ga-supreme-court/1418360.html
While I don't agree with the verdict it sounds to me like his comments to the 911 operator could be proved that McNeil was ready to take preemptive action regardless.
Also did this happen in Florida or Georgia?[/QUOTE]
Yeah, it's not like the son was threatened with a knife right?
edit: Does it matter where it happened? Weren't you one of those people bitching about "if roles were reversed" blah blah blah. Not only did this guy get convicted, he
ing got life.[quote name='dohdough']Yeah, it's not like the son was threatened with a knife right?[/QUOTE]
I think the punishment was harsh and I don't think it fit the crime. I think it is f'd up that the DA waited a year to prosecute but I don't necessarily disagree with the thought process of the jury in the article I presented.
But it's not exactly as clear cut as the original article you posted now is it?
I only asked because I wasn't sure if the stand your ground laws were identical in both Georgia and Florida. I'm not very familiar with that type of thing and you might have to show more proof that your life was threatened in one state versus the other
[/QUOTE]I think the punishment was harsh and I don't think it fit the crime. I think it is f'd up that the DA waited a year to prosecute but I don't necessarily disagree with the thought process of the jury in the article I presented.
But it's not exactly as clear cut as the original article you posted now is it?
edit: Does it matter where it happened? Weren't you one of those people bitching about "if roles were reversed" blah blah blah. Not only did this guy get convicted, he
I only asked because I wasn't sure if the stand your ground laws were identical in both Georgia and Florida. I'm not very familiar with that type of thing and you might have to show more proof that your life was threatened in one state versus the other
[quote name='GBAstar']I think the punishment was harsh and I don't think it fit the crime. I think it is f'd up that the DA waited a year to prosecute but I don't necessarily disagree with the thought process of the jury in the article I presented.
But it's not exactly as clear cut as the original article you posted now is it?
I only asked because I wasn't sure if the stand your ground laws were identical in both Georgia and Florida. I'm not very familiar with that type of thing and you might have to show more proof that your life was threatened in one state versus the other[/QUOTE]
You've proven my point just fine, thankyouverymuch.
You don't think that McNeil deserves the same benefit of the doubt as Zimmerman despite a clear history of threatening behavior from Epp.
This also highlights systemic racism in the way that it disproportionately punishes black people, especially black men and when it come to juries.
But it's not exactly as clear cut as the original article you posted now is it?
I only asked because I wasn't sure if the stand your ground laws were identical in both Georgia and Florida. I'm not very familiar with that type of thing and you might have to show more proof that your life was threatened in one state versus the other[/QUOTE]
You've proven my point just fine, thankyouverymuch.
You don't think that McNeil deserves the same benefit of the doubt as Zimmerman despite a clear history of threatening behavior from Epp.
This also highlights systemic racism in the way that it disproportionately punishes black people, especially black men and when it come to juries.
[quote name='dohdough']You've proven my point just fine, thankyouverymuch.
You don't think that McNeil deserves the same benefit of the doubt as Zimmerman despite a clear history of threatening behavior from Epp.
This also highlights systemic racism in the way that it disproportionately punishes black people, especially black men and when it come to juries.[/QUOTE]
Where did I state he didn't deserve the same benefit of the doubt?
In fact I mentioned that I was surprised the DA brought up charges a year later especially considering (if I read correctly) he wasn't arrested at the time of the shooting.
All I said was that based on the information presented to the jury I'm not surprised with the verdict although I disagree with it.
If the jury in the Martin case receives similar testimony I wouldn't be surprised if Zimmerman will be found guilty. But in either case life is a very harsh sentence.
You don't think that McNeil deserves the same benefit of the doubt as Zimmerman despite a clear history of threatening behavior from Epp.
This also highlights systemic racism in the way that it disproportionately punishes black people, especially black men and when it come to juries.[/QUOTE]
Where did I state he didn't deserve the same benefit of the doubt?
In fact I mentioned that I was surprised the DA brought up charges a year later especially considering (if I read correctly) he wasn't arrested at the time of the shooting.
All I said was that based on the information presented to the jury I'm not surprised with the verdict although I disagree with it.
If the jury in the Martin case receives similar testimony I wouldn't be surprised if Zimmerman will be found guilty. But in either case life is a very harsh sentence.
[quote name='GBAstar']Where did I state he didn't deserve the same benefit of the doubt?
In fact I mentioned that I was surprised the DA brought up charges a year later especially considering (if I read correctly) he wasn't arrested at the time of the shooting.[/QUOTE]
Right here:
http://caselaw.findlaw.com/ga-supreme-court/1418360.html#footnote_ref_2
In fact I mentioned that I was surprised the DA brought up charges a year later especially considering (if I read correctly) he wasn't arrested at the time of the shooting.[/QUOTE]
Right here:
[quote name='GBAstar']You might want to research that a little more...
from the case file:
On the way back he [McNeil] reported to an emergency 911 operator that a man was on his property and had pulled a knife on his son. Moments later, McNeil told the operator, “I'm at the property now ․ and there's the builder and I may get ready to whip his ass right now. So get the cops here now.” As McNeil was pulling into his driveway, he retrieved an automatic handgun from his car's glove compartment, removed it from its case, and loaded it with ammunition.
Epp was in the yard between McNeil's house and the one next door and walking toward McNeil. McNeil continued to back up with his hands pointed toward the ground and said “Back up, I am not playing with you.” Epp increased his speed toward McNeil and McNeil raised his gun and fired at Epp's head. Epp's hands were at his sides, and the eyewitness did not see him raise his hands or see any weapons in his hands.
If you want to read the actual events you can here:
http://caselaw.findlaw.com/ga-supreme-court/1418360.html
While I don't agree with the verdict it sounds to me like his comments to the 911 operator could be proved that McNeil was ready to take preemptive action regardless.
Also did this happen in Florida or Georgia?[/QUOTE]
from the case file:
On the way back he [McNeil] reported to an emergency 911 operator that a man was on his property and had pulled a knife on his son. Moments later, McNeil told the operator, “I'm at the property now ․ and there's the builder and I may get ready to whip his ass right now. So get the cops here now.” As McNeil was pulling into his driveway, he retrieved an automatic handgun from his car's glove compartment, removed it from its case, and loaded it with ammunition.
Epp was in the yard between McNeil's house and the one next door and walking toward McNeil. McNeil continued to back up with his hands pointed toward the ground and said “Back up, I am not playing with you.” Epp increased his speed toward McNeil and McNeil raised his gun and fired at Epp's head. Epp's hands were at his sides, and the eyewitness did not see him raise his hands or see any weapons in his hands.
If you want to read the actual events you can here:
http://caselaw.findlaw.com/ga-supreme-court/1418360.html
While I don't agree with the verdict it sounds to me like his comments to the 911 operator could be proved that McNeil was ready to take preemptive action regardless.
Also did this happen in Florida or Georgia?[/QUOTE]
The jury knew about Epp's previous history with the family and ignored it. And since they ignored it, McNeil can't use it in an appeal.
http://caselaw.findlaw.com/ga-supreme-court/1418360.html#footnote_ref_2
History tell us differently when the victim is black.
joeboosauce
CAGiversary!
[quote name='IAmTheCheapestGamer']None of us were there, so we can't say for certain if the victim acted aggressively or not towards Zimmerman.
As for not being able to tell that Zimmerman is half Hispanic from the pics, I guess I'm the only one that noticed he's a lil more 'brown' in one of the pics released of him? But I guess you'd say that makes me a 'racist' for pointing that out, right?[/QUOTE]
You seem to have an opinion on the innocent kid but also claim to not follow the case. Am I right here???
As for not being able to tell that Zimmerman is half Hispanic from the pics, I guess I'm the only one that noticed he's a lil more 'brown' in one of the pics released of him? But I guess you'd say that makes me a 'racist' for pointing that out, right?[/QUOTE]
You seem to have an opinion on the innocent kid but also claim to not follow the case. Am I right here???
bread's done