CAG home owner topic. Buying or selling a home? Have a maintance issue? Help is here!

Do not do that yourself. Never mess the foundation or stucco exterior. Stucco is a nightmare to work on and can flake/chip/explode if you aren't doing it right.
Contact a general residential contractor. They'll either be able to do it or will get you in touch with the right people.
 
Thanks for the condolences, guys. Unfortunately the market here was rabid at the time. I submitted about 50 offers since November (sadly not an exaggeration) and lost out to cash or extremely high offers. I saw an overpriced Short sale in excellent condition that was sitting idle on the market for 15 days, snuck in an offer, and got them to accept an offer that was at market value.

So this is my last stand. I haven't even bothered with looking at houses since April. My main concern is I'm still living with my parents, trying to avoid having to sign an apartment lease, but going stir crazy at the same time.
 
I have a few spiders in my basement, and silverfish in my upstairs bathroom. What should I use to kill/contain the infestation?
 
I see those from time to time in my unfinished basement as well. I haven't done anything about it though.

So we are STILL waiting to submit our project out for bids. I spoke with the architect last Tuesday last week and then wrote a semi-stern email to her last Wednesday basically demanding that they finish by this Friday and I haven't heard back yet. My wife is about to go over there and throw some punches but I'm hoping it doesn't come to that. We have paid a lot of money to the architect so far and don't have much to show for it yet. We have to break ground by December so things are starting to get tight. I'm not sure what to do here - I don't want to piss them off but I need to get moving on this.

Anyway, the plan is to go out to bid by this Friday, get bids back by mid-September, pick the contractor by the end of September, get permits by late October/early November and have the work begin by December. The architect assures me this is definitely doable but I have begun to lose faith...
 
[quote name='Javery']I see those from time to time in my unfinished basement as well. I haven't done anything about it though.

So we are STILL waiting to submit our project out for bids. I spoke with the architect last Tuesday last week and then wrote a semi-stern email to her last Wednesday basically demanding that they finish by this Friday and I haven't heard back yet. My wife is about to go over there and throw some punches but I'm hoping it doesn't come to that. We have paid a lot of money to the architect so far and don't have much to show for it yet. We have to break ground by December so things are starting to get tight. I'm not sure what to do here - I don't want to piss them off but I need to get moving on this.

Anyway, the plan is to go out to bid by this Friday, get bids back by mid-September, pick the contractor by the end of September, get permits by late October/early November and have the work begin by December. The architect assures me this is definitely doable but I have begun to lose faith...[/QUOTE]

I don't have experience with stuff like but how long is the architect going to involved? My fear would be that if she can't get her shit together up front, will she be holding you up the entire time.

Hiring people to do work on our house is the worst. The town we live in is wealthy over all, but there are many moderate areas. Every time I have a contractor out here I know they are just adding a percentage on to the price because of where we live.
 
I hear you - north jersey is so freaking expensive it makes me sick. If I didn't have family and friends here and kids in the public schools I'd definitely move. I really wish I wasn't tied down here. For what I paid for my house I'm sure I could get something 5X the size somewhere else. I can't even watch house hunters on HGTV because I want to punch the TV screen.

I think our architect's heavy involvement is coming to an end but I'm sure she will help us as we go to make sure the contractors are sticking to the plans, etc. I just want to start at this point (and more importantly find out how much they are going to screw me for).
 
[quote name='shieryda']I have a few spiders in my basement, and silverfish in my upstairs bathroom. What should I use to kill/contain the infestation?[/QUOTE]

Bring the spiders up to the bathroom. They'll eat the silverfish. Then get snakes to eat the spiders. And gorillas to eat the snakes. Then....

Unless you truly have an "infestation" there is nothing you can do about spiders and silverfish. I've never seen a house that hasn't had either of them. Just kill the ones you see with a wad of tissues if they bug you. If the spiders are something other than common house or garden spiders, call an exterminator. I'm sure they'll gladly tent your house and bomb it with chemicals. If you really want to spray on your own, go to the grocery or hardware store and buy some organic bug killer. Don't spray Raid or and other poisons like a maniac, especially if you have kids and pets.
 
[quote name='shieryda']I have a few spiders in my basement, and silverfish in my upstairs bathroom. What should I use to kill/contain the infestation?[/QUOTE]

Cats work great. They think both are delicious. At least mine do.
 
Here's a mini update for me. I am no longer looking to buy in Chicago. I have been looking in the burbs and I am going to try to make a cash offer (since I am unemployed) on a cheap 2 bedroom. I already looked at one and it is $29,000. Its estimated worth is $70,000, but I will probably have to drop close to $10,000 into it to make it pretty. I figured I might as well buy something now and sell it in a few years since rent for a 2 bedroom in this neighborhood would be 900-1200 a month. I can probably get it for $22,000-$24,000 since I am a cash buyer.
 
[quote name='shieryda']I have a few spiders in my basement, and silverfish in my upstairs bathroom. What should I use to kill/contain the infestation?[/QUOTE]

Use Ortho Home Defense MAX, it can be used indoors and outdoors. Spray it along the perimeter of the foundation outdoors. Clean out all the cobwebs in the basement and spray the perimeter of the basement floor and the floor joists above you. Make sure to wear goggles and a decent mask. It can also be sprayed along the baseboards inside the house. According to the instructions it will not affect pets after the spray has dried. Kills crickets, spiders (except black widow or brown recluse) carpet beetles, earwigs, firebrats, moths and silverfish. Says it lasts 12 months but I apply it every spring and fall.

I assume you have issues with moisture? I put a dehumidifier in my basement and it reduced the number of bugs and spiders but there were still quite a few. If you don't have an exhaust fan in your restroom, I would try that to help get rid of moisture. If not, get one of those red lights like they use in hotels or some Damprid.
 
[quote name='shieryda']^ Be sure you are asking for an Angie's List discount. Hopefully, they're listed through that service.[/QUOTE]

I'm not familiar with Angie's List. What does that get me?

The architect provided 6 names of interested contractors so I'm reaching out to all of them to set up an appointment so they can show off their completed projects. I was told to only let 4 of them actually bid it out but I don't see the logic in that. I'm going to have all 6 of them do it unless the initial meeting goes poorly. First one to come in at under $200K and I'm going to jump on it. Please please please...
 
[quote name='Javery']I'm not familiar with Angie's List. What does that get me?

The architect provided 6 names of interested contractors so I'm reaching out to all of them to set up an appointment so they can show off their completed projects. I was told to only let 4 of them actually bid it out but I don't see the logic in that. I'm going to have all 6 of them do it unless the initial meeting goes poorly. First one to come in at under $200K and I'm going to jump on it. Please please please...[/QUOTE]

Shouldn't you research their past work, get referrals about them, etc? Cheapest isn't always best.
 
[quote name='kodave']Shouldn't you research their past work, get referrals about them, etc? Cheapest isn't always best.[/QUOTE]

yeah, of course... I'm really just hoping I can afford the project. I've already paid an architect a lot of money for the design and the drawings. She knew my budget so hopefully the plans reflect that. I honestly don't know though.
 
So I have 5 meetings scheduled this week with contractors with hopefully one more if they get back to me. We should have the bid packages out by Friday and then we will be forced to wait 3 weeks while these guys price out the job.

We are going to let 4 of the 6 bid. The architect had a good point and said that everyone always knows who is bidding out a job and if there are more than 4 names they will lose interest because there will be less of a chance of any one of them actually getting the job. If they know they have a solid 25% chance to get the job they will be competitive in their pricing.

I am really anxious to break ground but if I had to guess I'd say best case scenario is by Thanksgiving. Ugh.
 
Mancave work is on hiatus under Sept. Dude who was working on it just bought a new house and is working on that a bit before moving in completely. Right now framing is about 95% done. Just had a separate contractor come in and install a new return vent.

Asked township last week if i had to worry about permit expiring, and lady was like "They expire after 180 days. You should have plenty of time , don't worry about it".
I replied "180 days is Sept 21 and it won't be done".
So she says "Oh, we are just asking homeowners to let us know if you aren't done in a year and we will just a make a note on the permit".

Kind of a jump from 180 days to 'whatever', but I'll be saving that email.
 
Got any updated pics of the man cave? The entire reason I'm adding on to my house is to put a theater/arcade in my basement... well, I'd also like a bedroom to sleep in instead of the attic but whatever - the basement is the main thing I want out of this project. I have been looking at tons and tons and tons of pictures and I'm constantly thinking how I want to lay mine out but I can't come up with something definite. I want to do it right though - recliners, AT screen, columns, sconces, mini bar, etc. The scope is overwhelming.
 
You won't get too many ideas out of me - im basically making one big room. Going to be sort of L-shaped. Bottom part of L will have a poker table and at least a countertop/cabinets underneath, maybe wet bar in future. Longer part of the L is going to be where i put reclining seats and the TV. Future bathroom also being framed out, but will just a closet for now.

Here are some pics now -
UQjyu.jpg




eo20g.jpg


7ST7Q.jpg


46J7E.jpg


sWhCW.jpg


hdHFV.jpg


Planning on getting two of these(http://www.crateandbarrel.com/organ...cases-shelves/shift-black-74-bookcase/s254374) and laying them side by side horizontally (so like 12ft across) for the TV/all my consoles/accessories. I'll prob buy two more to stand up and hold various figures/portal gun/books/etc.

Already have a bunch of game art to hang on the wall from various places, and gonna hang up a couple guitars too. Biggest obstacle right now to all of that is getting the wife to agree to everything the way I want it =]
 
Wow man that looks great. You are going to have quite a bit of space when it is finished. Have you thought about framing out an A/V closet or rack? This way you could keep everything hidden and not right under the TV.

Tell the wife that she can have the rest of the house but the basement is yours! My wife went for it... sort of.
 
Pooky, if you're even remotely contemplating a wet bar make sure you run your pipes now while the framing is open, and especially since you're already running pipe for the bathroom. You can just cap them off in the wall for now in the general area where you think the bar will go, but it'll definitely make things much easier later on.
 
[quote name='Javery']Wow man that looks great. You are going to have quite a bit of space when it is finished. Have you thought about framing out an A/V closet or rack? This way you could keep everything hidden and not right under the TV.

Tell the wife that she can have the rest of the house but the basement is yours! My wife went for it... sort of.[/QUOTE]

I thought about a couple ways of doing it, but just getting the shelves is easiest option. Alot of that stuff runs hot so want it out in the open. Thought about something behind the wall itself, but short on storage space back in unfinished area.


[quote name='keithp']Pooky, if you're even remotely contemplating a wet bar make sure you run your pipes now while the framing is open, and especially since you're already running pipe for the bathroom. You can just cap them off in the wall for now in the general area where you think the bar will go, but it'll definitely make things much easier later on.[/QUOTE]

We have the pex system installed in the house, so that makes things easier. It really only has to run along one wall where it the wet bar would be - it's installed on other side of stairs then would go under them, through unfinished bathroom area, then through unfinished water meter area. Good point though, prob wouldn't hurt either way. Not running any pipe for bathroom yet, but that would be even less distance to source.
 
So anyone know of any way to get a rough estimate of construction costs? I know price per square foot is not too accurate because it depends on what you want but I'm looking for some ballpark figures. My contractors pick up the bid packages on Monday and will have 3 weeks to get us their bids. I have no idea what to expect but there is a range I'm hoping we will be in. It seems like there isn't that much to it (dig a hole, pour the foundation, frame, seal and finish) but I'm probably oversimplifying it.
 
My bid got countered. Stupid short sale. They have it listed for $72,000, I offered $53,000 cash, no contingencies, and let them keep the things they wanted to keep. They came back with $71,000. I know the people have already moved, they legally can't rent it out-so it is vacant, have a kid that just started college that moved to school, either just got married or divorced (same person 2 names), etc. They are due for a $5,000 drop, so that is why I sent the lowball offer. What sucks is the offer doesn't make it to the bank as sellers have first right of refusal in Illinois.

I'll just wait for their foreclosure or auction and look at other place in the meantime.
 
I'm about to give up and move back into an apartment. Grown men should not move back in with their parents if posisble. I'll just see if the damn shortsale ever comes in and if it does I'll consider paying the 1500 or whatever fee to drop my lease to move into it.
 
[quote name='slowdive21']My bid got countered. Stupid short sale. They have it listed for $72,000, I offered $53,000 cash, no contingencies, and let them keep the things they wanted to keep. They came back with $71,000. I know the people have already moved, they legally can't rent it out-so it is vacant, have a kid that just started college that moved to school, either just got married or divorced (same person 2 names), etc. They are due for a $5,000 drop, so that is why I sent the lowball offer. What sucks is the offer doesn't make it to the bank as sellers have first right of refusal in Illinois.

I'll just wait for their foreclosure or auction and look at other place in the meantime.[/QUOTE]

Damn thats low. What does a $71K short sale in IL get you?
 
[quote name='slowdive21']My bid got countered. Stupid short sale. They have it listed for $72,000, I offered $53,000 cash, no contingencies, and let them keep the things they wanted to keep. They came back with $71,000. I know the people have already moved, they legally can't rent it out-so it is vacant, have a kid that just started college that moved to school, either just got married or divorced (same person 2 names), etc. They are due for a $5,000 drop, so that is why I sent the lowball offer. What sucks is the offer doesn't make it to the bank as sellers have first right of refusal in Illinois.

I'll just wait for their foreclosure or auction and look at other place in the meantime.[/QUOTE]

That is so cheap! Do I even want to know the size of the place? Can you describe it? I'm curious as to how far my dollar will go in the midwest.
 
[quote name='Javery']That is so cheap! Do I even want to know the size of the place? Can you describe it? I'm curious as to how far my dollar will go in the midwest.[/QUOTE]

You don't want to know, trust me.
 
[quote name='Wombat']You don't want to know, trust me.[/QUOTE]

I know - I just like torturing myself. I am in the process of bidding out an addition to my house (~15' x ~23' total but 2 floors and a basement) and if the job comes in under $200K I will be so freaking happy.... which is so freaking sad. I hate the northeast but I'm pretty much stuck here.
 
200k around me will get you ~2700 sq ft, if not a little more around me in WI. Torture away.Also Sonic, I completely disagree. If you stay at home and save 10k in 3 months why not do it! It's a good way to start up a quick fallback account.
 
[quote name='kodave']Why is this?[/QUOTE]

HOA rules it is a condo. That is a big strike as I wanted to have the option to rent it in the future.

[quote name='Pookymeister']Damn thats low. What does a $71K short sale in IL get you?[/QUOTE]

[quote name='Javery']That is so cheap! Do I even want to know the size of the place? Can you describe it? I'm curious as to how far my dollar will go in the midwest.[/QUOTE]

This is a 2 bed 2 bath condo, so I don't own the land and taxes are about $3,500/yr. Good middle class neighborhood in the burbs. It has a semi finished basement which is why I want it (but that can't be included in sq ft in this area). It is about 900 sq ft. not counting the basement. Needs a new kitchen and everything is dated 80s era. Needs new washer and dryer and appliances. Assessments are only $155 which is crazy low for this area. Normally assessments are $250-$400/month. The highest it sold for was $153,000 in 2005, but it is currently valued around $90,000. Realistically it won't be worth 90,000 for 2-3 years and until I update everything/paint.

They had no other offers on the place, so I figured they might bite. I can tell there was water damage at some point, but I contacted the HOA and it was repaired in 2003, so I think that might be scaring most buyers off. That and the fact that it looks dated. Realistically some paint and new appliances and it will look decent. The basement is the best part of the condo really.

I took a video of my walk through, but I don't know how to edit/upload it. It is from a "flip" that I bought at a thrift store.
 
Slowdive's story reminds me of the first house we went for, but didn't end up buying because they wouldn't lower the price or fix any problems when the inspection found major issues (even though it had been on the market for over a year). It turns out a few months later the house ended up selling for way less than our offer was post-inspection. :lol: And we ended up finding a better house anyway, where we now live. Can't believe it's been almost a year since we closed.

They'll regret it, slowdive, trust me. Just bask in the schaedenfreude. Too many sellers these days love to their property is worth more than it is and won't give reasonable counteroffers because they're so stubborn. It always comes back to bite them in the ass.
 
[quote name='perdition(troy']200k around me will get you ~2700 sq ft, if not a little more around me in WI. Torture away.Also Sonic, I completely disagree. If you stay at home and save 10k in 3 months why not do it! It's a good way to start up a quick fallback account.[/QUOTE]
That was my attitude back last December. It subsides pretty quickly.
 
Anybody have any experience just selling land property?

I had some land given to me via inheritance once my grandfather passed away. It's small (about 3630 triangle sq feet if I did the math right) and I've never been there. I was looking to sell it, don't have the property paperwork (but do have the tax information they send every year) and was wondering what the process is like.

The assessor values it at $600, but didn't give me any details about what all went into that price. Is there any way to find out the history, age, etc of the property?
 
[quote name='4thHorseman']Is there any way to find out the history, age, etc of the property?[/QUOTE]

might search on the web for a GIS map/parcel viewer/tax info map for your county. That may or may not give you some historical data but it is somewhere to start. They can be kinda funky to operate though and some are not friendly with certain browsers.
 
[quote name='Dead of Knight']
Slowdive's story reminds me of the first house we went for, but didn't end up buying because they wouldn't lower the price or fix any problems when the inspection found major issues (even though it had been on the market for over a year). It turns out a few months later the house ended up selling for way less than our offer was post-inspection. :lol: And we ended up finding a better house anyway, where we now live. Can't believe it's been almost a year since we closed.

They'll regret it, slowdive, trust me. Just bask in the schaedenfreude. Too many sellers these days love to their property is worth more than it is and won't give reasonable counteroffers because they're so stubborn. It always comes back to bite them in the ass.[/QUOTE]

Update: The other agent contacted my agent and seems eager to sell. Hopefully they will negotiate if I decide to bid again. That didn't take long. ;)

[quote name='4thHorseman']Anybody have any experience just selling land property?

I had some land given to me via inheritance once my grandfather passed away. It's small (about 3630 triangle sq feet if I did the math right) and I've never been there. I was looking to sell it, don't have the property paperwork (but do have the tax information they send every year) and was wondering what the process is like.

The assessor values it at $600, but didn't give me any details about what all went into that price. Is there any way to find out the history, age, etc of the property?[/QUOTE]

I would suggest holding onto land. You may be able to mine it for natural gas or sell it for more if the city needs to expand roads or whatever. I could be wrong, but I believe every property is assigned a pin number that is used instead of a street address to identify the land. That would be a good starting point to research city records. You may also consider letting someone go through with a metal detector if you are in a historic area. Some of these things may not be possible, but I thought I would throw them out there...
 
So my wife and I built a fire pit this weekend. We had bought one recently and were just soooo dissapointed at how thin, flimsy and small the damn thing was. So I decided what if we do it ourselves! Wanted to post this here half to brag and half because I could see other cheapassgamers stealing the idea and design. Whole thing took less then 2 hours(I bet we could get it down to an hour!)and around $120. If you got rid of the steal ring on top which isnt really needed this project could be done for $60-$100

http://postimage.org/image/x0cwa7z89/
http://postimage.org/image/p75p4sqbz/
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']So my wife and I built a fire pit this weekend. We had bought one recently and were just soooo dissapointed at how thin, flimsy and small the damn thing was. So I decided what if we do it ourselves! Wanted to post this here half to brag and half because I could see other cheapassgamers stealing the idea and design. Whole thing took less then 2 hours(I bet we could get it down to an hour!)and around $120. If you got rid of the steal ring on top which isnt really needed this project could be done for $60-$100

http://postimage.org/image/x0cwa7z89/
http://postimage.org/image/p75p4sqbz/[/QUOTE]

Effing sweet dude. Got a materials list by any chance? Once we redo the back yard I'd love to make room for one of these things.
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']So my wife and I built a fire pit this weekend. We had bought one recently and were just soooo dissapointed at how thin, flimsy and small the damn thing was. So I decided what if we do it ourselves! Wanted to post this here half to brag and half because I could see other cheapassgamers stealing the idea and design. Whole thing took less then 2 hours(I bet we could get it down to an hour!)and around $120. If you got rid of the steal ring on top which isnt really needed this project could be done for $60-$100

http://postimage.org/image/x0cwa7z89/
http://postimage.org/image/p75p4sqbz/[/QUOTE]

Great job.
 
[quote name='Javery']Effing sweet dude. Got a materials list by any chance? Once we redo the back yard I'd love to make room for one of these things.[/QUOTE]

Its really pretty simple.

2 bags of river pebbles or other smaller rocks. We bought 1 bag of large rocks(for $3ish)and an equal sized bag of smaller rocks for $2.00.

30 large/shaped bricks. I believe these were like $1.50 a piece but there were tons available from $1-$4 per brick based on how fancy you want to get

5 or 6 small bricks. You need these to serve as "wedge" pieces. Lining your bigger bricks up they will have gaps that need to be filled, unless your going to cement these you want to have a brick to fill that gap.

Thats really all there is to it. We bought a few extra of the large and small bricks that way 1. We would have enough to finish the project if we underestimated how many we would need and 2. To replace any if they got broke. They are cheap enough that I deemed it worth the $10 loss to not have to go back to the store ;) I imagine too that you could just as easily build a square shaped pit or rectangular or anything else. Really its just digging a hole and filling it with bricks and pebbles heh. O and in the middle you need a small hole that goes a few inches down, this is to give water a place to go when it rains!

Edit - Two optional things to buy.
1. Fire ring. For about $70 you can get a fire ring, the purpose of things is to have something to cover the fire up with and you could also use the big steel circle part it comes with as a huge wok hehe!
2. Cement glue. This thing stays firm without it, but we are still going to go back and spend the $7 to buy cement glue to ensure everything stays in place.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
[quote name='MSI Magus']So my wife and I built a fire pit this weekend. We had bought one recently and were just soooo dissapointed at how thin, flimsy and small the damn thing was. So I decided what if we do it ourselves! Wanted to post this here half to brag and half because I could see other cheapassgamers stealing the idea and design. Whole thing took less then 2 hours(I bet we could get it down to an hour!)and around $120. If you got rid of the steal ring on top which isnt really needed this project could be done for $60-$100

http://postimage.org/image/x0cwa7z89/
http://postimage.org/image/p75p4sqbz/[/QUOTE]

Heh, guess i need to look at these at home. Tried at work and filter came up with category Nudity.
 
LOL maybe because im in my boxers in one of the two pics? If so jesus, I mean its a pair of boxes, I am sitting down and its not like im hung like a stalion which makes my junk jump out at you!

Edit - ooooooo I bet its because the image site I use has two branches, one is adult rated one is family safe. I bet that filters just block the whole site! I was really confused, I mean boxers are not bad and again since I was sitting down I bet most people wont even notice.
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']LOL maybe because im in my boxers in one of the two pics? If so jesus, I mean its a pair of boxes, I am sitting down and its not like im hung like a stalion which makes my junk jump out at you!
[/QUOTE]

The day filters work based on the individual image I will be impressed(and scared) :)
 
Coming up on a year since my fiance and I closed on our house. Time flies! Managed to build a deck and re-insulate a wall this year. Still have more work to do.

Yardwork still kills me though! Damn weeds!
 
Arrghhh!!! So bids on my house were due Monday but 2 of the 4 contractors requested an extension until Friday so we offered the extension to all of them.... so a few more days to wait. The anticipation is killing me!

I also spent all day Saturday doing yard work and my yard still looks like shit. Weeds everywhere and I can't seem to do a thing about it. We cut down 3 HUGE trees from our property last summer and the effects have been really... unexpected I guess. I didn't really think about it but everything else on my property gets more sun and has a lot more water to drink when it rains so shit is growing out of control. We will be landscaping for reals in a year or two once we save up enough money but until then I guess I'm going to have to live with a well-manicured but generally ugly lawn.
 
Anybody have any ideas on how to waterproof a basement? I have two "cold rooms" that are in the front of my basement underneath my porch. We have been using them for storage of items in plastic rubbermaid bins and other items. The problem is when it rains hard water just comes out of the corner of the walls and runs through the whole basement towards the drain which is a good 12-15 feet away. I had hopes of finishing my basement and making it a game room but with the water coming in thats now a pipe dream.
 
[quote name='ajh2298']Anybody have any ideas on how to waterproof a basement? I have two "cold rooms" that are in the front of my basement underneath my porch. We have been using them for storage of items in plastic rubbermaid bins and other items. The problem is when it rains hard water just comes out of the corner of the walls and runs through the whole basement towards the drain which is a good 12-15 feet away. I had hopes of finishing my basement and making it a game room but with the water coming in thats now a pipe dream.[/QUOTE]

To really waterproof a basement you have to start outside. Look at the grade of your property, especially where the water is coming in. Do everything you can to et water away fom that area: make sure the gutters are working well, dig a french drain to move water away from the house in trouble area.

Inside the basement you can have a sump pump installed along with French drains around the walls. If you aren't getting a ton of water and the power stays on during a storm, that should keep you pretty dry.
 
bread's done
Back
Top