CAGcast #115: The Beta is Not a Chicken

I wanted to respond to the issue of paying $15 more dollars for MGS:4 LE.
From a MGS fanboy's point-of-view - What's another $15 for more of the stuff you love, if you're already paying $60?
I'm been a HUGE fan of Hideo Kojima and MGS ever since it came out for the PS1.
I can't get enough of the characters, the story, the weaponry and the overall style of the franchise.
Ever since the first one came out, I have been waiting for some kinda book or movie, whether it be CGI or live-action.
So anytime I get a chance to buy some MGS memorabilia, I will.

Also, the last time Gamestop did this, the MGS:3 Snake-Eater LE sold for 3 times the cost on ebay.
 
Hey, CheapD, I just listened to the podcast. I agree the stupid bitch comment was pretty damn funny!

I just came across the part of the cagcast where you mentioned the guy said the beta is a beta. Maybe it's been said in the thread already, but I'd guess that he meant the beta is just that: a beta (and not supposed to be a representation of the final game). So whatever was wrong with it was something they'd have to "fix".

However I agree with you in that EA is just trying to cover their greedy money-grubbin asses when they just got caught with their hand in the cookie jar. "Uh.....we ALWAYS meant for them to be free!"

Remember, Cags, EA will CONTINUE to do nickel-and-dime us whenever possible if we don't raise hell! Remember the Godfather downloadable cheats that were available on EVERY other version except the 360? We had to buy what was already free for other systems.

THAT sounds like the EA that just tried to charge me $2 per weapon in a multiplayer game.
 
Re: Cole Train from Gears of War. He is not a stereotype of black characters. In the story of the game they say several times Cole Train was a pro athelete before the wars broke out. Knowing that, his dialog is perfectly natural coming from a brash NFL football superstar.
 
I really liked the show, anyway I would like to comment on the taking home diapers. I think that is great actually and you or your wife should take a look at them every so often before you toss them - poop is a way to keep tabs on your babies health. The way it smells the consistency the color all these are clues to the inner workings your child. ;)
 
[quote name='banodyne']Re: Cole Train from Gears of War. He is not a stereotype of black characters. In the story of the game they say several times Cole Train was a pro athelete before the wars broke out. Knowing that, his dialog is perfectly natural coming from a brash NFL football superstar.[/quote]

What are you talking about?

Cole Train is a negative stereotype. Look at the way he is positioned in the game. And to reinforce the stereotype I'm calling it now. Cole train is going to die in Gears of War 2. :roll:
 
[quote name='banodyne']Re: Cole Train from Gears of War. He is not a stereotype of black characters. In the story of the game they say several times Cole Train was a pro athelete before the wars broke out. Knowing that, his dialog is perfectly natural coming from a brash NFL football superstar.[/quote]

wait, are you saying all brash NFL superstars act like that? now that's offensive...j/k
 
I think your proposed review system should keep the 'cheap ass' moto in mind. A star, or grade system just wouldn't cut it for me at CAG. I can get those at IGN or Gamspot if I wanted.
I come and listen to CAG for cheap shit. When I think of getting a game price is #1, unless it's a got to have. Even if it is a got to have, I come to CAG to see how much I can save or if I can get something with my purchase.
Maybe a system like this would work:
1-Take my $ now
2-Buy it on the cheap (Look for a price drop)
3-A good rental
4-Save your $

You could also work in specific price points...e.g. wait for $10 off, wait for $20 off, use a CAG code.
 
I think that Wombat's idea about a "forget it, rent it, buy it" system, ala ifanboy's pull system, would be brilliant. It would really put CAGs community power to use and offer some cool, yet simple metrics that can be used by the users and publishers, or used to lure advertisers. I know it was a long show Cheapy and you needed to move on, but you should really listen to what Wombat has to say.
 
[quote name='vampireblood']What are you talking about?

Cole Train is a negative stereotype. Look at the way he is positioned in the game. And to reinforce the stereotype I'm calling it now. Cole train is going to die in Gears of War 2. :roll:[/quote]

Negative? Nope, don't see it that way. He was a fan favorite and extremely popular. Take the Gears of War action figures for instance. Of the COGs, there's main character Marcus Fenix and Augustus "Cole Train" Cole. Not Baird. Not even Dominic Santiago who was the parter and a playable character in the game. Cole was a good soldier, obsessed with saving his friends and the mission and he didn't look down on the people living in the ruins. Gamers loved his foul mouth, attitude and humor. People could say the same thing about Dennis Leahry in Rescue Me but no one takes him as a negative stereotype of Irish-Americans.

As for the cliche of black characters dying, Gears of War 1 already broke that mold. Your commanding officer Lt. Kim, played the part of the friend who gets killed that haunts the others.
 
Cheapy and Wombat, I am a little surprised you guys weren't more up in arms about Map packs being 10$ (especially with Wombat's rant about the Penny Arcade game.) I mean, if you look at the market, UT 3 for PS3 just had 3 maps released for free. And yet, Microsoft and Activision are releasing maps for 10$? That's a complete rip off. I bought Super Stardust HD and PixelJunk Monsters for 8$. There is no way 4 maps in a game are worth more than a full downloadable game. I think this is another bad trend that has started within the video game industry.

P.S. Wombat is as awesome as Iron Man. :D
 
About rock band being to expensive in europe i can relate to. I live in sweden and the games when the are realesed costs about 599SEK (100$ ) but sometimes you can find "cheap" games for about 549 SEK (94$) so it is rahter hard to be a CAG in sweden. But hey we try just as hard! great show Cheapy and wombat and cheers from sweden!
 
Hey CheapyD, I can confirm that the lack of trash cans in Japan exists outside of Tokyo. I visited Kyoto, Hiroshima and a city called Kure a while ago. There were so many vending machines but nowhere to throw out the bottles and cans!
 
[quote name='H.Cornerstone']Cheapy and Wombat, I am a little surprised you guys weren't more up in arms about Map packs being 10$ (especially with Wombat's rant about the Penny Arcade game.) I mean, if you look at the market, UT 3 for PS3 just had 3 released maps for free. And yet, Microsoft and Activision are releasing maps for 10$? That's a complete rip off. I bought Super Stardust HD and PixelJunk Monsters for 8$. There is no way 4 maps in a game are worth more than a full downloadable game. I think this is another bad trend that has started within the video game industry.

P.S. Wombat is as awesome as Iron Man. :D[/quote]


I agree... but if people are going to keep buying them.. the price will stay the same or rise..

I'm guilty of buying the map pack.. just because all my friends bought it and I don't want to play with them and have the game kick me out when they play the maps... I usually dont buy the maps.. this time I did..
 
[quote name='banodyne']Re: Cole Train from Gears of War. He is not a stereotype of black characters. In the story of the game they say several times Cole Train was a pro athelete before the wars broke out. Knowing that, his dialog is perfectly natural coming from a brash NFL football superstar.[/QUOTE]

So your saying that 1000 years from now that Urban slang will not change at all from today? Football Player or not?
 
[quote name='banodyne']Re: Cole Train from Gears of War. He is not a stereotype of black characters. In the story of the game they say several times Cole Train was a pro athelete before the wars broke out. Knowing that, his dialog is perfectly natural coming from a brash NFL football superstar.[/quote]

Michael Jordan, Joe Montana, Tiger Woods and Ozzie Smith were all pro-athletes. Why don't any of them talk like that?
 
[quote name='SeanNOLA']Michael Jordan, Joe Montana, Tiger Woods and Ozzie Smith were all pro-athletes. Why don't any of them talk like that?[/QUOTE]

Yor forgot, Lynn Swann, Tiki Barber, Michael Strahan, Curtis Martin, Donavan McNabb....
 
[quote name='Wombat']So your saying that 1000 years from now that Urban slang will not change at all from today? Football Player or not?[/quote]

I'm a huge nerd for knowing this and pointing it out. Gears of War doesn't take place on Earth. It's on a world called Sera. Whether that's the future, an alternate dimension or just another planet remains to be revealed. Like how Battlestar Galactica mirrors 20th century styles, language and dress.

As for trash talking athelete types (do they play football on planet Sera?) I can counter with Deion Sanders, Dennis Rodman, pretty much any pro wrestler, boxers, Jim McMahon. Since I'm not a sports fan, I'm not the best to cite specifc examples but you see them all the time on the news.
 
[quote name='banodyne']I'm a huge nerd for knowing this and pointing it out. Gears of War doesn't take place on Earth. It's on a world called Sera. Whether that's the future, an alternate dimension or just another planet remains to be revealed. Like how Battlestar Galactica mirrors 20th century styles, language and dress.

As for trash talking athelete types (do they play football on planet Sera?) I can counter with Deion Sanders, Dennis Rodman, pretty much any pro wrestler, boxers, Jim McMahon. Since I'm not a sports fan, I'm not the best to cite specifc examples but you see them all the time on the news.[/quote]

The tapes Howard Stern played of Deion in the Miss USA pageant were hilarious. Deion couldn't say ask. He'd state the questions 'Missouri axs... What would you do if you win the Miss USA title?"

I think the whole Cole Train thing is kind of nitpickey. He doesn't sound 'ghetto'. He might have an affect on his voice and you maybe able to determine his race based on that, but that is where it ends.
 
The real point is not that you have this particular character stereotype, but that this is the stereotype a good 95% of the time.

People like The Cole Train, and don't want him to go anywhere. They just want to see more alternatives to the usual token black character types.

Like, say, Tyler Miles from Indigo Prophecy. He's one of the rare exceptions.
 
[quote name='Wombat']Yor forgot, Lynn Swann, Tiki Barber, Michael Strahan, Curtis Martin, Donavan McNabb....[/quote]

But who does talk like that? How about "Terry Tate Office Linebacker" from those reebok (sp?) commercials?

Oh wait, that actor is the same guy that did the voice for Cole Train....

Sorry, I'm late to the convo.. but I'm finally listening to the CAGcast now. After hearing the comment about him sounding like a football player, I just had to post that he's done that stereotype before.. and it was damn funny in those commercials. He just ported that character over to Gears... I realized it at his first excited "Woooooooa!!!!" (sp?). I immediately turned to my wife, "I think that's Terry Tate?".. then went online to find a clip, and check imdb

But I agree, a stereotyped 90's personality does not realistically fit on a different planet in the distant future. That society should have its own stereotypes.
 
[quote name='CheapyD']I doubt it was an act. They didn't replay the radio show afterwards, there is no show rundown on howardstern.com, and there are no plans to show it on Howard TV.
If you've listened closely recently, Artie has made several references about him doing coke. For a long time, he has not even joked about doing coke again...being very serious about his coke problem.
He has also been falling asleep during the show lately, perhaps suggesting that he has been up all night and not continuing the drug use during the show.

Also, I've seen Arties movies...his acting isn't that good.[/QUOTE]
Cheapy- Do you wanna see Jackie back or should they fix the Artie problem...I say screw it all and pay big bucks to get Billie West back in the game!!!!!

moleson
 
I'd love to see Artie.. but if I were Howard, I'd tell him to stop his tours across the US. Maybe allow him to do one once a month locally or in the tri-state area. It's obvious the road is taking a toll on him..
 
[quote name='sparki1980']But I agree, a stereotyped 90's personality does not realistically fit on a different planet in the distant future. That society should have its own stereotypes.[/quote]

But it worked in ToeJam & Earl III

"TRICK OR DAMN TREAT!"
 
holy shit, people talking about Stern, *love love* too bad they're on vacation this week. i'd like to know the Artie situation now
 
How about doing a poll using increments of 0.5 (1-10) for each category. Example, gameplay, graphics, sound, lasting appeal/replay value, fun factor, or etc. Have the reviewer describe in his post why he gave that score for each. Do an average "Overall Score", but also do a "final verdict" poll. Example, Buy at release/Pay retail (full price), Wait for a price drop($35-$50), Wait for it to become a Greatest Hit($25-$35), or it's a bargain bin/rental game($20 or below).
 
Hey Wombat, what was that comic site you recommended? I am too lazy to redownload the CAGCast and hunt for the URL. I've recently gotten back into comics (somewhat) and am looking for some solid recommendations and reviews. Thanks.
 
[quote name='evilpenguin9000']Hey Wombat, what was that comic site you recommended? I am too lazy to redownload the CAGCast and hunt for the URL. I've recently gotten back into comics (somewhat) and am looking for some solid recommendations and reviews. Thanks.[/quote]
iFanboy - The hosts of the video podcast are really likeable.

And if I could give you a self-serving plug, ComicMix is pretty good site too. Comic news and articles and digital comics to read for free.
 
I just want to say that assigning a dollar amount is PERFECT. It's novel -- it's appropriate to this site and it's not like any other review scale. A $30 rating for a $60 game isn't the same as giving it a 5/10 on a point scale... it indicates that a title is worth playing whenever it reaches a certain level of cheapness. It's perfect for CAG, cause it says that if you can get coupons or deals to get a game at the review price, it's worth it. You're right that prices fluctuate, but that still works perfectly -- prices will drop until it reaches the ideal review price, or maybe never get low enough if the game totally sucks. If it's something like the orange box that's just overflowing with awesome gaming value, the reviewer might even assigning it a higher-than-retail dollar amount, meaning this game is a must-buy at its current price, and would be worth even more. I really, really like this review idea and you simply have to do it. Otherwise you are just rehashing all the other websites. This would be new, interesting, and totally unique to CAG.
 
I'm going to go ahead and go with the 5 point scale. I say either 3 o 5. anything more than a 5 point scale is pointless. It detracts from the purpose of the scale. With a 100 point scale reviewers complain that noone reads the article but with 100 points Ishouldn't have to. With a 5 point scale it's ideal. You have a review scale that tells me which way the article leans. 3 is average. 4 is good. 5 is highly recommend/must buy (not necessarily perfect b/c nothing is perfect). 2 and 1 will hardly be used but that's a small issue. The benifit of the 5 point scale is that most games hopefully fall within the 3-4 range and what makes that difference b/w average and good.. read the article. The 5 of course denotes a game that will generally be used for 'must buys'. This way we end up using the entire scale instead of having that impossible 10.

[quote name='Phryo88']You could always go with a 1-5 system
1- So bad I'd rather play the Aquaman game.
2- Hardcore fans of genre/IP only.
3- 100% average.
4- Very good, near perfect.
5- Portal good.[/quote]
 
that story about the guy that recognized cheapy and then proceeded to make fun of and kill him is priceless! i laughed my balls off. i think it was funnier the second time though.

great show, i "lol'd" a few times, which is exactly what I needed on a stern vacation week.

P.S. Artie is coming back Cheapy, I know he will.


------

Also, regarding the review system. I wrote this a few weeks ago, take from it what you will...just ignore the rest of the blog, it's what I do when I have writers block ;)

http://ilovesuicide.blogspot.com/2008/02/how-to-write-video-game-review-right.html
 
Great show. The thing about a Nintendo hard drive is its audience. Susie homemaker probably doesn't download VC games or do WiiWare. She won't need one. It'll fit the needs of traditional gamers who are savvy enough to handle a Wii hard drive. Nintendo should just do it.
 
[quote name='catapult37']I just want to say that assigning a dollar amount is PERFECT. It's novel -- it's appropriate to this site and it's not like any other review scale. A $30 rating for a $60 game isn't the same as giving it a 5/10 on a point scale... it indicates that a title is worth playing whenever it reaches a certain level of cheapness. It's perfect for CAG, cause it says that if you can get coupons or deals to get a game at the review price, it's worth it. You're right that prices fluctuate, but that still works perfectly -- prices will drop until it reaches the ideal review price, or maybe never get low enough if the game totally sucks. If it's something like the orange box that's just overflowing with awesome gaming value, the reviewer might even assigning it a higher-than-retail dollar amount, meaning this game is a must-buy at its current price, and would be worth even more. I really, really like this review idea and you simply have to do it. Otherwise you are just rehashing all the other websites. This would be new, interesting, and totally unique to CAG.[/quote]
I couldn't have said it any better myself. The $$ system is by far the most ingenious and appropriate method.
 
Wanted to chime in with the rating system debate. From a practical point, I don't see assigning a price value working. How about a value system? That's still a rating system but has a nice CAG slant to it.

$$$$$ - Get it even at full price
$$$$ - Worth it if you can get it on sale
$$$ - Wait till this gets discounted
$$ - Rent it
$ - Only if it's in the bargain bin
 
I would love to see the value system for reviewing games ( the "what would you pay for this game" system. Using this system would be perfect for CAG because the price value of the game is the main focus and because no other websites (that I know of) are doig anything like this.
 
Hey Wombat, I'm not sure what Warhawk servers your playing on but if you filter the servers you might find more mature gamer but hey... whether your playing on a PC or PSP, team kills and ganking happen. Its a fact of life.

Now about the mic thing.... really you want more mics? Really?! I activate mute when I have the chance. If you are playing ANY team based game, a once of common sense is far greater then a mic.
 
Good show guys. I think the review scale should be monetary, this is something I do now when talking about if people should buy a game. Not only would it help drive traffic to your site, but you might be able to get some deals from sites based on the CAG average price score. It seems that most people only read the reviews on games they have an interest in so the chance of buying that game is high anyway. If say you review a game and say that over all a good game but I wouldn't pay more than 30 bucks for it maybe I hold back and not waste money. Then you could add in a overall CAG price (kind of like gamespot avg score) where the CAGs give there idea on what its worth.
 
Regarding the rating system:
Keeping it simple is best. This isn't a videogame magazine, where people will bicker about .5 off a score. It's just a website profile review. A quick 1-5 scale will suffice. Let's face it, not many CAGs would even write reviews justifying their scores. With the 1-5, it keeps it quick and clean. That's just my view.

The dollar idea is, well....terrible as far as a rating for a game. Consider Portal. That game is definitely a 5 (going with the aforementioned scale). However, there is no possible way I would pay $60 for it (i.e. the max score in this scale). It's a short game, which is partially why it's great. It doesn't needlessly drag. However, it's SO short, that I would most certainly only pay $20 max (I am a CAG after all :)). Because of using currency as a rating, I can't rightly give Portal the rating it really deserves. A game can't just be rated in the sense of "how much is it worth". Portal is soooo damn great, but under the money system, it would be rated so damn low. That defeats the purpose of a rating system altogether to me.

Keep ratings as ratings. Let dollar value be something else. Combining the two into one will only serve to confuse the fuck out of everybody. If the dollar thing is actually not meant to be a rating of the quality of the game, then disregard the previous rant.

Also regarding Wombat's comments about the harddrive and WiiWare titles:
He failed to think that if someone could manage to set up a wireless network, and get their Wii working on it, they could manage plugging a harddrive into a USB port. There's obviously SOMEONE in the household that could help Susie Homemaker with her predicament.
 
[quote name='letsgetacid']Regarding the rating system:
Keeping it simple is best. This isn't a videogame magazine, where people will bicker about .5 off a score. It's just a website profile review. A quick 1-5 scale will suffice. Let's face it, not many CAGs would even write reviews justifying their scores. With the 1-5, it keeps it quick and clean. That's just my view.

The dollar idea is, well....terrible as far as a rating for a game. Consider Portal. That game is definitely a 5 (going with the aforementioned scale). However, there is no possible way I would pay $60 for it (i.e. the max score in this scale). It's a short game, which is partially why it's great. It doesn't needlessly drag. However, it's SO short, that I would most certainly only pay $20 max (I am a CAG after all :)). Because of using currency as a rating, I can't rightly give Portal the rating it really deserves. A game can't just be rated in the sense of "how much is it worth". Portal is soooo damn great, but under the money system, it would be rated so damn low. That defeats the purpose of a rating system altogether to me.

Keep ratings as ratings. Let dollar value be something else. Combining the two into one will only serve to confuse the fuck out of everybody. If the dollar thing is actually not meant to be a rating of the quality of the game, then disregard the previous rant.
[/quote]

See I think it works well. Using your portal analogy the Orange Box has a whole is well worth the 60.00 you get 5 good games. Now if you base the review on portal alone then your right it's worth about 20.00 a very good game but short with little replay after you beat all the challenges. Now you can buy portal as a stand alone for 20.00(PC only). So the system works; if you want all 5 games plunk down the cash its worth it, If you just want portal then wait it out for a price drop or a stand alone budget title. My thinking is you can go to a ton of sites with 1-10 score or ABCDF hell game rankings just gives you the average score. This needs to be two fold for CAG : Drive up traffic, and give it a CAG touch. And whats a better way they saying GT5 prologue is a good driving sim, but is basically an overpriced demo. After you have unlocked and races the 4 tracks over there is little replay value. This title is worth 20.00... Your not saying its a 2.5 out of five your just suggesting that hey don't drop 40.00 on it, but it is worth 20.00 if you can get it for that price buy it. Thing is if your like me and love GT your going to buy it and I did however if you just on the fence you might hold out until you can get it for that price. Also it would be a floting scale the Highest score would be full price the original MSRP.

Anyway I think gamers take the scores too seriously. For me it's more about the context of the review not the over all score. And by having a different kind of scale you forcing people to read the review not just look at the Wombat score and move on. I don't know just my opinion.
 
I forgot to mention this but Wombat, I am VERY GLAD you starting to acknowledge the redundant questions from the Cagbag. Kinda overdue, and I am quite surprised that you are the only person that gets complaints about them.
 
[quote name='evil_twin'] Also, the last time Gamestop did this, the MGS:3 Snake-Eater LE sold for 3 times the cost on ebay.[/QUOTE]

That's Ebay, not MSRP. The LE of MGS3 that included a new camera system, a making of DVD, and Online Mode cost $40.
That's $10 less than the "gimped" original launch version cost. I bought two of them and still have one sealed. That being said, I wouldn't pay $85 for the "LE" version of MGS4 when I know that they're going to come out with some new, improved version of it next year. They've ALWAYS done that with every single MGS game. They're just milking the fanboys for all they're worth at launch and it's very transparent. Just wait til next year, you're gonna see some ultra-awesome edition of MGS4 and that's the version I'll buy.

Anyway, CheapyD, about the rating system you're thinking about. I'd really dig a system that does away with the stupid number system. It's flawed and can be interpreted so many different ways that most of the time it can be broken down much more simply. Just rate games as Buy, Wait For Price Drop (Buy Cheap), Rent, and Don't Even Bother.
 
Great show again CheapyD and Wombat. I've been a fan since show number 20 and I'm like Wombat and listen to a couple of other shows, but none compare to the CAGcast. The comic book segment was refreshing. Makes me wonder just how many comics Wombat reads a month?

Wombat, what do you think of the new title that was just confirmed, Mortal Kombat vs DC Universe?

And there was no need for Cole to be so stereotypical. Keep up the good work and can't wait for the next show.
 
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