CAGcast #222: The Perfect Stranger

CheapyD

CheapyD

Head Cheap Ass
Staff member
Feedback
14 (100%)
[preview][IMG-L=5838]15060[/IMG-L]Sony gets dominated in November, IGN and GameStop join forces, and Wombat craves chocolate covered pork rinds. Tune in for the latest gaming and shopping news, your CAGbag and Twitter questions and so much more!

[podcast]131[/podcast]
Download - 97 minutes, 58MB
iTunes: Subscribe - Review


Support the CAGcast with these GoDaddy coupon codes:
10% off any order = CAG10
$5 off $30 = CAG5OFF30
$7.49 domain = CAGDOMAIN[/preview]



Show Linkage/Notes (click the button below to expand):
Intro - Theme from Fist

notes coming soon!

Follow us on twitter
CheapyD's Youtube Videos (Subscribe)
CheapyD's Flickr Page (Subscribe)


Outro: Pacman mini carcade
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I think you guys were unnecessarily harsh on Harm's Way. Also you got a few facts wrong. It's not really a car combat game; it's more like a co-op game where one person on the team drives and tries to get in first while the other person on the team controls turrets along the race track and tries to take out the other players. It's really best played with a friend online against computer opponents.

Also it's a VERY easy 200/200 for you gamerscore whores out there. You can get the full points after a handful of games online with a friend.

I think you guys should give it another shot. Crash Course is a well made game but personally I think Harm's Way is much more fun and unique.

Other than that I love your show, keep up the good work.
 
i really appreciate the work you guys put in. Starting from thursday night, i always check the twitter feed to see if a cagcast is coming. Keep up the good work!
 
Thanks Wombat for mentioning that there's going to be some good stuff coming up in 2011 for the PS3. Here is a list of exclusives for PS3 in 2011:

Little Big Planet 2
Killzone 3
Infamous 2
The Last Guardian
Motorstorm Apocalypse
Twisted Metal
Resistance 3

Oh yeah and some game called Uncharted 3.

At least 3 of those exclusives could easily be competing for GOTY in 2011.

Now here is a list of exclusives for Xbox in 2011: Gears 3

So yes SONY got "dominated" by soccer moms throughout the land this holiday season. Next year though it will be a different story. A story involving real gamers.
 
Hey Wombat, just remember when you are talking about Dance Central sales that the NPD numbers are US only, while the 2.5 million Kinect accessory sales is the worldwide sales number. Great show as always, and as always, Wombat is wrong about something.
 
I think the download problem is an Internet Exporer issue, try using another browser. I asked Cheapy to fix it but he said "no" and went back to eating gold eggs.
 
[quote name='Wombat']I think the download problem is an Internet Exporer issue, try using another browser. I asked Cheapy to fix it but he said "no" and went back to eating gold eggs.[/QUOTE]

I does not work with either safari or firefox
 
Download worked fine for me.

My favorite part of the podcast was when Cheapy said "?�Qx&@7��x��~�׾���������w y[~�?�s���YVL�t��L��V�H���"u@E ���Q��+ ��Wt����K�C/��rK��4Y��*�gx'��.�b֞�Տ�.��m�����5����25�M~S/�����U�M���O�����G|9�o�?�o����
���:g���Z���������itP�FO�]�/ҟx��үM�ٮF��7�� �����td@�n�U/5�*"UGu(a5;�Z_�ݏ���p�0-�r�\���CF��Djb���C4��r�H_;dxi V�D���ń�$�%*R�{xwꗫq��Ic��P�ƴC'��VQ�;���>.����p�?C|��+k��{Է�'$~/����UM�}�ޡZ�3zVo������1�
�S��>�|��K麂�{��g�������A�o��=��ՠ��z�P������f_�e���������d����2���
 
I gotta slow down. i read that too fast and thought CAG and GameScoop joined forces. I know a lot of you guys aren't fans of the IGN podcasts but for me that would have been an awesome awesome thing.
 
In regards to your comments about the potential disparity between Kinect hardware and software sales, I think there may be a segment of the population that have bought just the hardware for hacking purposes. It may not be a ton of people, but I've seen enough hacks to consider it a possibility.
 
Love the 'cast, guys. One chocolate treasure you missed--chocolate-covered bacon. My daughter and her aunt made this for me for father's day--pretty tasty. However, it had to be eaten in extreme moderation.
 
I think you all are dead on about Namco and its lack of promotion. Enslaved and Maijin are both solid games that got little or no promotion. Both had demos that helped convince me to buy them, but even the demos got little or no promotion.

I'm not sure pre-released games will solve the problem, but it defintely can't hurt. I think Dead Rising Case Zero is a good start. Have a prequel that ties right in to the final game and gives you some sort of bonus.
 
I can't believe any of you didn't bitch about the price of the Mario All Star collection. Isn't that usually Wombat's role? 30 bucks for 4 games that are already available on the Virtual Console for a total of 20 bucks. Are bonus features really a bonus if you're paying for them? I presume you all let this go because it's on the Wii so you don't care.

Did you guys play the Iron Man table on Pinball FX? All Iron Man ever talks about is his stock and getting his drink on.

Oh, and Kratos is a much better fit in Mortal Kombat than he was in Hot Shots Golf. (Was he in Soul Calibur? I thought that the Tekken guy was the only Sony exclusive to that series.) Will this Mortal Kombat be on the Wii so we can get Link disembowling people?
 
Just chipped in $10 for Child's Play. Cheapy, I find it interesting that you were more compelling in asking for money for Child's Play than you usually are when you're plugging business for CAG itself (maybe that's why I keep fogetting to use Amazon affiliate links when I buy games - sorry man!). Oh well, hope to hear you next week...
 
[quote name='ShockandAww']Thanks Wombat for mentioning that there's going to be some good stuff coming up in 2011 for the PS3. Here is a list of exclusives for PS3 in 2011:

Little Big Planet 2
Killzone 3
Infamous 2
The Last Guardian
Motorstorm Apocalypse
Twisted Metal
Resistance 3

Oh yeah and some game called Uncharted 3.

At least 3 of those exclusives could easily be competing for GOTY in 2011.

Now here is a list of exclusives for Xbox in 2011: Gears 3

So yes SONY got "dominated" by soccer moms throughout the land this holiday season. Next year though it will be a different story. A story involving real gamers.[/QUOTE]

With the exception of Little Big Planet 2... not really impressed with what the old PS3 is going to offer in 2011. But, it's still a pretty good Blu-Ray player.
 
[quote name='shipwreck']Meager, Kratos was in the latest PSP version of Soul Calibur.[/QUOTE]

Ooooh, that's right! I forgot my Sony Paperweight has the capacity to play games!
 
Great podcast, as usual. I love it when Wombat tries to sound so convincing when he's completely wrong (Dance Central attach rates, NPD vs. world-wide Kinect sales).
 
I really enjoyed the discussion on the marketing of new games. The real issue though is something that Wombat touched on. The budgets for many of these new IPs are just way too high. Concepts and execution are pushed aside in favor of graphics and graphics equals expense.

Fans of Enslaved or Majin don't seem to talk about the look of these games as much as the stories and game play. Reducing the graphics to an average level would give them enough margin to drop the price to the a point where they could build an audience. That audience is going to carry forward to the sequel which means it can be given a larger budget and everyone can talk about what a huge leap forward this already good game too. We've seen that model with the Assassin's Creed series and with Mass Effect. It does work.
 
geez you all can be fucking morons sometimes.....well alot of the time. as far as xbox sales go what percent of those are people replacing consoles that have died on them? thats always been one of the major reasons i laugh at people gushing over xbox console sales they never factor in the new sales that are for current customers replacing dead consoles. and yeah some of the ps3 sales are too just not as many.

as far as wii sales go theres alot of fucking retards out there. and yeah im sure people are now picking up consoles because of kinect and move but how many would be interesting to know.
 
[quote name='grognard66']Great podcast, as usual. I love it when Wombat tries to sound so convincing when he's completely wrong (Dance Central attach rates, NPD vs. world-wide Kinect sales).[/QUOTE]

My point still holds, as I doubt worldwide sales of an American music game topped 2million. So I am not completely wrong. Also, you smell.
 
About your guys' battlefield talk...

I think EA/DICE is doing a great job at keeping Bad Company 2 relevant. They release the new VIP map pack which was easily the best pack to date by giving us 2 brand new maps and 2 fan favorites from the 1st game. They do this to restimulate the interest of people that already own BFBC2, this way they are ready to shell out the dough for Vietnam when it comes out.

Now they attach Vietnam to the original BFBC2 to essentially sell more of the base game; which I am sure is obvious to a lot of you, by advertising for Vietnam and people will make the jump to BFBC2 to play it.

If you haven't played Battle Field Bad Company 2 there is not a better time to start things up than right now. The game is cheap on PC and consoles, you get a wealth of maps, and a new expansion is right around the corner! The expansion is very fairly priced in my opinion too.
 
I feel bad that Wombat can do a better Yogi Bear impression than Dan Aykroyd can.

Anyway, I feel that the reason a lot of games don't sell well are for marketing reasons. People like to point at Metacritic scores, but it's not like gamers are gonna buy every single game that gets a positive review.

Shipwreck was right about 2010 being the year the 360 had the better exclusives (or at least the better selling exclusives). That may have also been a factor of why the 360 sold more than the PS3.

Good show.
 
[quote name='lokizz']geez you all can be fucking morons sometimes.....well alot of the time. as far as xbox sales go what percent of those are people replacing consoles that have died on them? thats always been one of the major reasons i laugh at people gushing over xbox console sales they never factor in the new sales that are for current customers replacing dead consoles. and yeah some of the ps3 sales are too just not as many.[/QUOTE]

Where do consoles go when they die? Think about that and come back. I'm too tired to continue the discussion at the moment. I can tell you that the end result is that you're wrong.

[quote name='lokizz']theres alot of fucking retards out there[/QUOTE]

Tru dat.

[quote name='lokizz']im sure people are now picking up consoles because of kinect and move but how many would be interesting to know.[/QUOTE]


Pachter released the console bundle numbers. ~700K Kinect Bundles and ~150K Sony Move Bundles.
 
RE: Kinect Sales - it seems like a lot of people are buying Kinects for non-gaming purposes. My office bought 3 to use for gesture presentation and projector-control stuff. I doubt we'll be buying Dance Central any time soon. I agree with Wombat that the software sales are not going to match the hardware sales.

RE: EA and online games - from a profit standpoint, what EA is doing makes sense. "Is there really room for an online Dead Space/Bioshock?" There probably isn't, but an online component gives incentive for consumers to buy early, before the online component dries up. A lot of single-player-only titles, like Vanquish and Enslaved, end up selling poorly out of the gate, because consumers know that it will be the same game a few months from now when it's selling for $40. An FPS, however, will change dramatically - either the multiplayer arena has become a ghost town, or the day-one purchasers have gained a significant advantage, based on their months of experience.

Resident Evil 5 is a good example: If you bought it at launch, you might have been able to take advantage of online multiplayer, but if you waited for the price to drop to $20, you entered a ghost town. In the end, you're forced to ask yourself "is the online component worth that $40?" and if the answer is "yes," then you'll pay the $60 up front.
 
[quote name='hdcase']Download worked fine for me.

My favorite part of the podcast was when Cheapy said "?�Qx&@7��x��~�׾���������w y[~�?�s���YVL�t��L��V�H���"u@E ���Q��+ ��Wt����K�C/��rK��4Y��*�gx'��.�b֞�Տ�.��m�����5����25�M~S/�����U�M���O�����G|9�o�?�o����
���:g���Z���������itP�FO�]�/ҟx��үM�ٮF��7�� �����td@�n�U/5�*"UGu(a5;�Z_�ݏ���p�0-�r�\���CF��Djb���C4��r�H_;dxi V�D���ń�$�%*R�{xwꗫq��Ic��P�ƴC'��VQ�;���>.����p�?C|��+k��{Է�'$~/����UM�}�ޡZ�3zVo������1�
�S��>�|��K麂�{��g�������A�o��=��ՠ��z�P������f_�e���������d����2���
 
[quote name='lokizz']geez you all can be fucking morons sometimes.....well alot of the time. as far as xbox sales go what percent of those are people replacing consoles that have died on them? thats always been one of the major reasons i laugh at people gushing over xbox console sales they never factor in the new sales that are for current customers replacing dead consoles.[/QUOTE]

If that was such a big factor then then the 360 wouldn't have the best attach rate out of all the consoles. A high attach rate means people buying new 360s are buying games with them. If people were just replacing dead 360s, they would not be buying games with them, so you would see a low attach rate.

The moron here is you.
 
I agree with Cheapy and Wombat. Shippy, get going and buy the 360 versions so we can play together!
 
Cheapy, did you have any of the Red Hot Better Made chips? Those chips, along with NES and Mt. Dew, helped to contribute to my mild childhood obesity.
 
[quote name='Curufinwe']If that was such a big factor then then the 360 wouldn't have the best attach rate out of all the consoles. A high attach rate means people buying new 360s are buying games with them. If people were just replacing dead 360s, they would not be buying games with them, so you would see a low attach rate.

The moron here is you.[/QUOTE]

says the guy from deleware. seriously who the fuck are you ?
 
[quote name='lokizz']says the guy from deleware. seriously who the fuck are you ?[/QUOTE]

Great argument.

Anyways about the 2.5 million kinect sales, if the pachter numbers are correct is there something to say about the console bundle sales that equal just 750K while kinect sales have reached 2.5 million all together?

It seems that more people are buying kinect when they already have a console. I thought that was interesting because unless those people buy kinect games, then microsoft doesn't really gain anything beyond the initial kinect profit.

At least with the bundle sales, they are gaining potential customers to open their entire library to.
 
Kinect is going to bomb. Wait until next summer.

And it will finally look like the junk that it is.

Wait untli Kinects start crapping out too. I'm not assigning a long lifespan to those moving cameras. It feels like a junk-a-thon.

Don't shoot the messenger now. I'm just chanelling this.

The 360 isn't selling better because of Kinect either. Kinect is not moving 360s. It's not bringing many new consumers into the fold. The November boost is similar to the boost the 360 recieved the previous months since its revision.

It's the revision that is moving 360s further spurred along by Halo and then CoD:BO which is not quite as bad as CDs:BO if you can decode that last acronym. ;)
 
They (assuming pachters numbers are correct) sold 750K Xbox 360 Console Kinect bundles last month, I think that is a clear indication the Kinect IS moving consoles....

Just because it isn't your type of game doesn't mean it can't be popular. I have a Wii and hardly ever play it, I found out motion control, and those type games are not for me, but it is clearly popular and sells very well.
 
On the subject of development costs talk:

We are raising dev costs 2-3x+ every hardware cycle, while the userbase grows at a much slower (non-exponential) rate. This is clearly unsustainable. Right now the industry is running from math. Even with the additional monies currently being extracted from consumers per game, the vast majority of games are losing a larger and larger amount of money. 2008 was the highest year for revenue on record in the industry, and 2009 was the second highest. Despite this, companies are/were going under left and right and others were deep into the red.

There are only two solutions:
1) lower costs, by going small/low power, possibly digital.
2) dramatically grow the gaming population until these obscene costs can be justified.
__________
On attach rates:
I've come to believe that attach rates are relatively unimportant (at least in the current generation).

If you take the lifetime hardware sold (from NPD) and use that to calculate weeks ownership (depending on which month it was sold), and take lifetime software sales numbers (whenever they happen to be available), you find that console owners buy the same number of games per unit time in the long term.

For example, as of Sept 09 NPD:

TOTAL hardware ownership in weeks
X360: 1.58 billion
Wii: 1.54 billion
PS3: 0.64 billion

2lkxpc7.png


X360: 0.091 games per week
Wii: 0.091 games per week
PS3: 0.092 games per week

In the short term, this trend is distorted slightly by events like new system launches, slim redesigns/price drops, etc.
__________
On Kinect/Move sales and implications:

How many Kinects/Moves are sold is irrelevant because they wont get significant support - This is how non-standard peripherals work. There are nearly the same amount of Wii Balance Boards sold as there are PS3s, but you dont see support for it. Similar situation with Motion+.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Can't wait to listen!!!

side note: the download link only worked with firefox for me. With IE it downloaded a bad jpeg file for unknown reason???
 
[quote name='InvaderZim']With the exception of Little Big Planet 2... not really impressed with what the old PS3 is going to offer in 2011. But, it's still a pretty good Blu-Ray player.[/QUOTE]
The point is that the PS3 will be getting all the big games next year except project shit box games and Gears of War.
 
[quote name='lokizz']says the guy from deleware. seriously who the fuck are you ?[/QUOTE]

I'm the guy who's much less ignorant than you. Try doing some research before you call the hosts of this podcast morons, and maybe you won't make a fool of yourself in the next CAGcast thread.

From the GAF NPD thread:

The 360 has a great tie ratio. A really great tie ratio. Better than the PS3 or the Wii. Tie ratio is the number of pieces of software sold for each piece of hardware, and the 360's are top shelf both month-to-month and lifetime. This means that if a higher percentage of 360 buyers are repeat owners, we'd either expect the tie ratio to be lower (because someone who buys a second 360 doesn't also rebuy their whole library) or we'd say that it is artificially low, and the 360's actual active owner : software tie ratio is enormous, dwarving everything else ever made by a significant amount.

It seems likely that 360 owners buy a lot of software and unlikely that that they buy a totally mindboggling amount of software, so we have to assume that the repeat buyers are about normal.

One of the reasons here is that most people who rebuy a console trade their old one or sell it and then the person that buys that buys software. So most of your repeat buyers were also driving used sales and thus driving the install base, even if you didn't know they were.

Now, I'm not equating the 360's failure rate to any other console. In fact, let's pretend we're not talking about the 360 at all. Let's talk about the PS2. And now let's pretend no one's PS2 ever broke. Ever. Right? Still, a lot of those people replaced their fat PS2s with slim PS2s (or bought a second one and kept both), right? Sounds fair.

But in spite of this, we don't think of the PS2 as not "earning" all its sales, or of having a lower "actual" ownership number than the sales represent or any other claim like that. We basically accept that whatever the percentage of people who own two or break one and buy a new one or are otherwise rebuyers or upgrade or look for new colours or buy holiday bundles for collectors sake or whatever, it's not something that we actually worry about. We count the sales as honest and act as though the install base is the install base.
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
bread's done
Back
Top