Chris Benoit kills wife, 7 year old son and then self.
- Thread starter Zenithian Legend
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[quote name='naes']All I'm saying is that your explanation is not an excuse.[/QUOTE]
I never claimed it was an excuse. As I said, some of us in this thread are exchanging ideas as to Benoit's motive based on the information we have. Why you feel the need to interject some indignant comments based on your misperception that I or anyone else have been trying to excuse what Chris Benoit did is a mystery to me. Try being a little less hostile and a little more inquisitive.
I never claimed it was an excuse. As I said, some of us in this thread are exchanging ideas as to Benoit's motive based on the information we have. Why you feel the need to interject some indignant comments based on your misperception that I or anyone else have been trying to excuse what Chris Benoit did is a mystery to me. Try being a little less hostile and a little more inquisitive.
I just said that no one said it was an excuse.
I was just voicing my opinion saying that it's not an excuse.
[quote name='Excalibur']I never claimed it was an excuse. As I said, some of us in this thread are exchanging ideas as to Benoit's motive based on the information we have. Why you feel the need to interject some indignant comments based on your misperception that I or anyone else have been trying to excuse what Chris Benoit did is a mystery to me. Try being a little less hostile and a little more inquisitive.[/quote]
I was just voicing my opinion saying that it's not an excuse.
[quote name='Excalibur']I never claimed it was an excuse. As I said, some of us in this thread are exchanging ideas as to Benoit's motive based on the information we have. Why you feel the need to interject some indignant comments based on your misperception that I or anyone else have been trying to excuse what Chris Benoit did is a mystery to me. Try being a little less hostile and a little more inquisitive.[/quote]
I wouldn't call that "voicing an opinion". You could have said "Yes, but that's no excuse" without coming off as a jerk about the whole thing. It'd be different if someone said "Oh good point, I don't hold him responsible for this anymore!". Then your sarcastic comment would've been more warranted.
[quote name='Monsta Mack']Oh, and I would just like to thank you for linking to that article. Benoit is almost a perfect fit for it.[/QUOTE]
My pleasure Monsta. And I agree, he seems to fit the profile of the Family Annihilator to a tee. What's so unfortunate is that the experts on this type of individual don't seem to think that their homicidal/suicidal acts are preventable, which I'm not sure I can accept. If they can find commonalities among people that do what Benoit did, I would think that maybe, just maybe, they could identify telltale warning signs that might ultimately save some lives.
My pleasure Monsta. And I agree, he seems to fit the profile of the Family Annihilator to a tee. What's so unfortunate is that the experts on this type of individual don't seem to think that their homicidal/suicidal acts are preventable, which I'm not sure I can accept. If they can find commonalities among people that do what Benoit did, I would think that maybe, just maybe, they could identify telltale warning signs that might ultimately save some lives.
I guess I did come off as a jerk. I edited it.
[quote name='Rocko']I wouldn't call that "voicing an opinion". You could have said "Yes, but that's no excuse" without coming off as a jerk about the whole thing. It'd be different if someone said "Oh good point, I don't hold him responsible for this anymore!". Then your sarcastic comment would've been more warranted.[/quote]
[quote name='Rocko']I wouldn't call that "voicing an opinion". You could have said "Yes, but that's no excuse" without coming off as a jerk about the whole thing. It'd be different if someone said "Oh good point, I don't hold him responsible for this anymore!". Then your sarcastic comment would've been more warranted.[/quote]
k
Lex Luger was on 11 Alive News tonight (the Atlanta NBC affiliate). He basically just gave his opinion on the situation, which wasn't really different from the majority opinion. He did make it a point to say that wrestlers do need the equivalent of a players' associaton/union. This is something Jesse Ventura has been vocal about in the past as well. Personally, I don't see it happening as long as Vince McMahon has an iron grip on the business.
mykevermin
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It's no small secret that I loathe FOX News...especially an anti-intellectual bully like Bill O'Reilly.
Here's a quote of him from tonight's programming blaming Woman for the death of her son: "The men involved were troubled and chaotic. The women involved had to know that... The women made big mistakes. They were obligated to protect their children and, I submit, by allowing the chaos they allowed, they did not protect them."
What a class
in' act. His guest for the night was a wrestler named Jon Stewart. Yes, your "who!?!?" reaction was the same one I had. He's a long-time indy nobody and (you guessed it) Republican politician, who unsuccessfully ran for Congress in Illinois' 10th district. He dropped out first of 11 Republican candidates. He's a jobber in the ring, and he's a jobber in Washington. Who the is he to be an expert on anything? Jesus, this guy makes Brian Christopher look like Hulk Hogan comparatively speaking.
Here's a quote of him from tonight's programming blaming Woman for the death of her son: "The men involved were troubled and chaotic. The women involved had to know that... The women made big mistakes. They were obligated to protect their children and, I submit, by allowing the chaos they allowed, they did not protect them."
What a class
in' act. His guest for the night was a wrestler named Jon Stewart. Yes, your "who!?!?" reaction was the same one I had. He's a long-time indy nobody and (you guessed it) Republican politician, who unsuccessfully ran for Congress in Illinois' 10th district. He dropped out first of 11 Republican candidates. He's a jobber in the ring, and he's a jobber in Washington. Who the is he to be an expert on anything? Jesus, this guy makes Brian Christopher look like Hulk Hogan comparatively speaking.[quote name='Rocko']When I heard about the blood under Nancy's head yesterday I thought it was a domestic problem gone bad. I do really hope that's what it was, only because that's easier to deal with as a fan than the idea of him coming home and killing them on a whim.
As I think I've said earlier, it's possible he pushed her or something and realized she was injured, and sort of just snapped inside realizing what he'd done. We'll probably never know, but for me it makes it somewhat better knowing that this may have stemmed from an argument rather than a random killing.
Note that I'm not saying it makes it more excusable, just that it makes it eaiser to deal with.[/QUOTE]The problem with this theory, though, is Benoit uncharacteristically no-showing an event to make a mysterious trip home. The missing piece of the "domestic dispute gone wrong" argument is, "why was he home in the first place?" I forget, but has it been pretty much established that the initial "family emergency" was just something he made up?
As I think I've said earlier, it's possible he pushed her or something and realized she was injured, and sort of just snapped inside realizing what he'd done. We'll probably never know, but for me it makes it somewhat better knowing that this may have stemmed from an argument rather than a random killing.
Note that I'm not saying it makes it more excusable, just that it makes it eaiser to deal with.[/QUOTE]The problem with this theory, though, is Benoit uncharacteristically no-showing an event to make a mysterious trip home. The missing piece of the "domestic dispute gone wrong" argument is, "why was he home in the first place?" I forget, but has it been pretty much established that the initial "family emergency" was just something he made up?
[quote name='mykevermin']It's no small secret that I loathe FOX News...especially an anti-intellectual bully like Bill O'Reilly.[/QUOTE]
You and me both. Hannity might be worse than O'Reilly though. It's close.
I'm not sure how Nancy "allowed" whatever chaos there was. Perhaps she is guilty of trying to save her marriage, horrible as that is (sarcasm here people; lower the flamethrowers). It almost seems like O'Reilly is advocating a "divorce at the first sign of turbulence" approach here in regards to Chris and Nancy's marriage, which I find laughable. People already have little respect for marriage and view it as entirely disposable, which may be why half of all marriages in this country end in divorce.
All I can muster here is a hearty LOL. O'Reilly manages to find a new rock bottom on an almost daily basis.
You and me both. Hannity might be worse than O'Reilly though. It's close.
I'm not sure how Nancy "allowed" whatever chaos there was. Perhaps she is guilty of trying to save her marriage, horrible as that is (sarcasm here people; lower the flamethrowers). It almost seems like O'Reilly is advocating a "divorce at the first sign of turbulence" approach here in regards to Chris and Nancy's marriage, which I find laughable. People already have little respect for marriage and view it as entirely disposable, which may be why half of all marriages in this country end in divorce.
What a class
All I can muster here is a hearty LOL. O'Reilly manages to find a new rock bottom on an almost daily basis.
Zenithian Legend
Banned
[quote name='DJSteel']here is a question... how much is that house??? Couldn't they have spent less on the house and got him a inhouse nurse??[/quote]
No, that would've made too much sense. Buy a $900,000 house, but don't get an in-home nurse.
Seriously, if Nancy was bitching about needing help taking care of Daniel, why not get a nurse?
The only reason I can see against it is Benoit was too private to allow anyone into his life under any circumstance. Although, you'd think if it was to help his son he could make an exception.
No, that would've made too much sense. Buy a $900,000 house, but don't get an in-home nurse.
Seriously, if Nancy was bitching about needing help taking care of Daniel, why not get a nurse?
The only reason I can see against it is Benoit was too private to allow anyone into his life under any circumstance. Although, you'd think if it was to help his son he could make an exception.
mykevermin
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[quote name='Zenithian Legend']The only reason I can see against it is Benoit was too private to allow anyone into his life under any circumstance. Although, you'd think if it was to help his son he could make an exception.[/QUOTE]
Perhaps he's just not very bright. A nurse could not, under hepa guidelines, disclose who her clients were and what reasons she was serving them. His family's secret would be perfectly safe with a nurse. Additionally, he had been in contact with other fxs parents/advocates, so he was not entirely clammed up about it. He didn't want to be the "public spokesman" for fxs (shame, considering Kurt Angle's work for angina), I believe I read.
Perhaps he's just not very bright. A nurse could not, under hepa guidelines, disclose who her clients were and what reasons she was serving them. His family's secret would be perfectly safe with a nurse. Additionally, he had been in contact with other fxs parents/advocates, so he was not entirely clammed up about it. He didn't want to be the "public spokesman" for fxs (shame, considering Kurt Angle's work for angina), I believe I read.
[quote name='BustaUppa']The problem with this theory, though, is Benoit uncharacteristically no-showing an event to make a mysterious trip home. The missing piece of the "domestic dispute gone wrong" argument is, "why was he home in the first place?" I forget, but has it been pretty much established that the initial "family emergency" was just something he made up?[/quote]
Ah, this is true. I didn't think of that aspect.
I need some clarification as well- what exactly did he get out of when he cited "family emergency"? Was it Sunday's PPV? Or was it something earlier?
What I'm getting at is whether he called and cited that before or after the first death on Friday.
Ah, this is true. I didn't think of that aspect.
I need some clarification as well- what exactly did he get out of when he cited "family emergency"? Was it Sunday's PPV? Or was it something earlier?
What I'm getting at is whether he called and cited that before or after the first death on Friday.
[quote name='naes']Still looks like a double murder suicide to me.[/QUOTE]
yea I'm talking about how it started though.
[quote name='Excalibur']I suppose so. And given their apparent dissatisfaction with Daniel's physical size - and the HGH injections they subjected him to as a result - perhaps Benoit just decided that his son's situation was hopeless and therefore life wasn't worth living, for him or for Nancy and Daniel. It's all just conjecture on my part though, much like we've all been speculating for days now. We want to find some sense and logic in a totally nonsensical and illogical tragedy.[/QUOTE]
Makes sense. Like when your dog is really really sick, and you put him down even thought you don't want to.
After he accidentally killed his wife. Thought about what would happen to his kid. Thought that killing him would be the best thing for him. So he did that. His wife, and kid are dead. He has nothing to live for. Of course this is all speculation.
[quote name='mykevermin']It's no small secret that I loathe FOX News...especially an anti-intellectual bully like Bill O'Reilly.
Here's a quote of him from tonight's programming blaming Woman for the death of her son: "The men involved were troubled and chaotic. The women involved had to know that... The women made big mistakes. They were obligated to protect their children and, I submit, by allowing the chaos they allowed, they did not protect them."
What a classin' act. His guest for the night was a wrestler named Jon Stewart. Yes, your "who!?!?" reaction was the same one I had. He's a long-time indy nobody and (you guessed it) Republican politician, who unsuccessfully ran for Congress in Illinois' 10th district. He dropped out first of 11 Republican candidates. He's a jobber in the ring, and he's a jobber in Washington. Who the is he to be an expert on anything? Jesus, this guy makes Brian Christopher look like Hulk Hogan comparatively speaking.[/QUOTE]
You realize your doing what he wants. He wants you to watch and get pissed off at him. So you'll tune in the next night, and bitch at him through your tv some more.
yea I'm talking about how it started though.
[quote name='Excalibur']I suppose so. And given their apparent dissatisfaction with Daniel's physical size - and the HGH injections they subjected him to as a result - perhaps Benoit just decided that his son's situation was hopeless and therefore life wasn't worth living, for him or for Nancy and Daniel. It's all just conjecture on my part though, much like we've all been speculating for days now. We want to find some sense and logic in a totally nonsensical and illogical tragedy.[/QUOTE]
Makes sense. Like when your dog is really really sick, and you put him down even thought you don't want to.
After he accidentally killed his wife. Thought about what would happen to his kid. Thought that killing him would be the best thing for him. So he did that. His wife, and kid are dead. He has nothing to live for. Of course this is all speculation.
[quote name='mykevermin']It's no small secret that I loathe FOX News...especially an anti-intellectual bully like Bill O'Reilly.
Here's a quote of him from tonight's programming blaming Woman for the death of her son: "The men involved were troubled and chaotic. The women involved had to know that... The women made big mistakes. They were obligated to protect their children and, I submit, by allowing the chaos they allowed, they did not protect them."
What a class
in' act. His guest for the night was a wrestler named Jon Stewart. Yes, your "who!?!?" reaction was the same one I had. He's a long-time indy nobody and (you guessed it) Republican politician, who unsuccessfully ran for Congress in Illinois' 10th district. He dropped out first of 11 Republican candidates. He's a jobber in the ring, and he's a jobber in Washington. Who the is he to be an expert on anything? Jesus, this guy makes Brian Christopher look like Hulk Hogan comparatively speaking.[/QUOTE]You realize your doing what he wants. He wants you to watch and get pissed off at him. So you'll tune in the next night, and bitch at him through your tv some more.
[quote name='naes']I know, I've kind of been an ass in this thread, and I'm sorry about that. I think I'm gonna stop posting in this thread for a bit until I calm down.[/QUOTE]
I commend you for being insightful enough to realize that and admit you behaved somewhat poorly. That's more than a lot of people can do, even when they should. It's also somewhat understandable. This horrific tragedy has affected a lot of us, judging by the size of this thread and how heated it has been at times. I don't blame you in the least for being a bit hostile; it's easy to lose one's composure when discussing such a volatile subject.
I commend you for being insightful enough to realize that and admit you behaved somewhat poorly. That's more than a lot of people can do, even when they should. It's also somewhat understandable. This horrific tragedy has affected a lot of us, judging by the size of this thread and how heated it has been at times. I don't blame you in the least for being a bit hostile; it's easy to lose one's composure when discussing such a volatile subject.
[quote name='naes']I know, I've kind of been an ass in this thread, and I'm sorry about that. I think I'm gonna stop posting in this thread for a bit until I calm down.[/QUOTE]
Its alright, we all have at one point of another.
[quote name='Excalibur']I commend you for being insightful enough to realize that and admit you behaved somewhat poorly. That's more than a lot of people can do, even when they should. It's also somewhat understandable. This horrific tragedy has affected a lot of us, judging by the size of this thread and how heated it has been at times. I don't blame you in the least for being a bit hostile; it's easy to lose one's composure when discussing such a volatile subject.[/QUOTE]
QFT
Its alright, we all have at one point of another.
[quote name='Excalibur']I commend you for being insightful enough to realize that and admit you behaved somewhat poorly. That's more than a lot of people can do, even when they should. It's also somewhat understandable. This horrific tragedy has affected a lot of us, judging by the size of this thread and how heated it has been at times. I don't blame you in the least for being a bit hostile; it's easy to lose one's composure when discussing such a volatile subject.[/QUOTE]
QFT
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I should have known that Bill O Reily would act retarded sooner or later.
integralsmatic
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i dont know if this will help anything but X3MLEO of Youtube has some of the testimonials uploaded on that his account.
http://www.youtube.com/user/X3MLEO
i have nothting to say that just im stunned and i dont know what or how i should judge it...was an autotopsy report released yet?
http://www.youtube.com/user/X3MLEO
i have nothting to say that just im stunned and i dont know what or how i should judge it...was an autotopsy report released yet?
[quote name='integralsmatic']i dont know if this will help anything but X3MLEO of Youtube has some of the testimonials uploaded on that his account.
http://www.youtube.com/user/X3MLEO
i have nothting to say that just im stunned and i dont know what or how i should judge it...was an autotopsy report released yet?[/QUOTE]
I can't even get through the Triple H one... I had to turn it off as soon as he said "Respect for his family".
I can't imagine how *any* of those wrestlers must feel, knowing the real truth mere hours after recording that tribute.
http://www.youtube.com/user/X3MLEO
i have nothting to say that just im stunned and i dont know what or how i should judge it...was an autotopsy report released yet?[/QUOTE]
I can't even get through the Triple H one... I had to turn it off as soon as he said "Respect for his family".
I can't imagine how *any* of those wrestlers must feel, knowing the real truth mere hours after recording that tribute.
-Never4ever-
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[quote name='DJSteel']i dunno I would kind of see (not that I would do this) it if Benoit thought he was putting his kid out of his misery so to speak considering the illness he had...might make sense why the bible were around...[/QUOTE]
It's fairly obvious at this point. For whatever reason, he killed his wife (more than likely an argument gone wrong). At which point he thought it through and decided he was going to put his son out of his misery, lastly he decided that the shame would be too great and just did himself in.
What a surreal past few days this has been. And I still can't get over it, still can't bring myself to hate Benoit for what he did. All I feel is a deep sadness that he's gone.
Somethings been through my head since we first heard wind of suicide; what if Eddie never died? Would Benoit would have gone this far? Sadly, I think Eddie's passing was the first tug that started to unravel Chris.
It's fairly obvious at this point. For whatever reason, he killed his wife (more than likely an argument gone wrong). At which point he thought it through and decided he was going to put his son out of his misery, lastly he decided that the shame would be too great and just did himself in.
What a surreal past few days this has been. And I still can't get over it, still can't bring myself to hate Benoit for what he did. All I feel is a deep sadness that he's gone.
Somethings been through my head since we first heard wind of suicide; what if Eddie never died? Would Benoit would have gone this far? Sadly, I think Eddie's passing was the first tug that started to unravel Chris.
[quote name='http://nodq.com/wwe/185005542.shtml']One question that can be posed is this: If Chris Benoit killed his wife stemming from a confrontation about Daniel, did he later kill his son because of concerns about who would take care of a needs child while he was in prison? While this doesn’t make Benoit’s actions any more justifiable, the scenario may shed some light on why Chris Benoit killed his son before taking his own life.[/quote]
[quote name='http://nodq.com/wwe/185005657.shtml']"Is it possible that after Chris killed Nancy (for whatever reason), he felt Daniel wouldn't be able to get the care and attention he required as a special needs child (if that is indeed true) with no mother and a father either in jail or dead? Did he then decide that the only way he could protect and take care of his son was to take him to the next world and go with him? In his warped and twisted state, did he think this was the only way to shield his son from a difficult life of pain and hardship? It doesn't condone or justify a damn thing, but it's the best reason I can think of. I'm trying to put together some semblance of logic for his actions, but it's an impossible task trying to explain this.”[/quote]
Comes from NoDQ.com. The comments in quotes come from an unnamed WWE wrestler described as a close friend of Benoit's and the family. More and more stories are coming out that almost paint the picture of Daniel Benoit's death being "collateral damage" in a tragic domestic dispute.
[quote name='http://nodq.com/wwe/185005657.shtml']"Is it possible that after Chris killed Nancy (for whatever reason), he felt Daniel wouldn't be able to get the care and attention he required as a special needs child (if that is indeed true) with no mother and a father either in jail or dead? Did he then decide that the only way he could protect and take care of his son was to take him to the next world and go with him? In his warped and twisted state, did he think this was the only way to shield his son from a difficult life of pain and hardship? It doesn't condone or justify a damn thing, but it's the best reason I can think of. I'm trying to put together some semblance of logic for his actions, but it's an impossible task trying to explain this.”[/quote]
Comes from NoDQ.com. The comments in quotes come from an unnamed WWE wrestler described as a close friend of Benoit's and the family. More and more stories are coming out that almost paint the picture of Daniel Benoit's death being "collateral damage" in a tragic domestic dispute.
-Never4ever-
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Easily the most logical solution thus far.
[quote name='mykevermin']It's no small secret that I loathe FOX News...especially an anti-intellectual bully like Bill O'Reilly.
Here's a quote of him from tonight's programming blaming Woman for the death of her son: "The men involved were troubled and chaotic. The women involved had to know that... The women made big mistakes. They were obligated to protect their children and, I submit, by allowing the chaos they allowed, they did not protect them."
What a classin' act. His guest for the night was a wrestler named Jon Stewart. Yes, your "who!?!?" reaction was the same one I had. He's a long-time indy nobody and (you guessed it) Republican politician, who unsuccessfully ran for Congress in Illinois' 10th district. He dropped out first of 11 Republican candidates. He's a jobber in the ring, and he's a jobber in Washington. Who the is he to be an expert on anything? Jesus, this guy makes Brian Christopher look like Hulk Hogan comparatively speaking.[/quote]ummm... I haven't said anything from the start of this thread because there is not much point. It is a terrible tragedy and none of us really know what to make of it (and maybe never will). But I have to insert myself here. I don't mean to start a fight with you (afterall, you are about the only person I respect in either the wrestling or political threads since you are also about the only person who can put together a coherent sentence), but did you actually watch the show or did you just get this off of MediaMatters or some other smear site? I didn't watch the show because I don't get FNC (yeah, BYU on-campus housing -- go figure). But I did watch the Talking Points on the website afterwards. And your post not only misses the point of his message entirely, but cuts out right before and comes back in right after two seperate points in his Memo where he explicitly expressed that he was not trying to villanize the victims. Your post just doesn't seem very fair to me. Although, to be fair, I had the same reaction as it started. But I had to remove my emotions and think about what the man was really saying. I typed up the entire Talking Points just now:
[quote name='Talking Points Memo']Hi, I’m Bill O’Reilly. Thank you for watching us tonight.
Keeping yourself safe from harm. That is the subject of this evening’s Talking Points Memo.
In the last week, two gruesome stories have gotten a lot of attention: the murder of Jessie Davis and her nine month old fetus, allegedly by her boyfriend Bobby Cutts; and the murders of Nancy Benoit and her seven year old son, Daniel, by professional wrestler Chris Benoit, who then hung himself.
In both of these terrible situations, the men involved were troubled and chaotic, and the women involved had to know that. Now I'm not blaming the victims here. But I am saying that every one of us has to make smart decisions, especially when children are involved.
Jessie Davis had to know this Cutts guy was a chaotic, irresponsible person, with two families in Ohio and another out-of-wedlock child in California. Then Ms. Davis gets pregnant by Cutts again? Come on.
In the Benoit case authorities say the wrestler was actually injecting his seven year old son with some kind of substance, possibly human growth hormone. There were needle marks on the boy’s body. Nancy Benoit certainly should have seen that.
A few years ago she filed a domestic violence complaint against Benoit; also, anabolic steroids were found in the house.
Now most crimes of violence are committed by people who know their victims and irresponsible behavior is the tip off. If you are involved with someone who does chaotic things, you will get hurt. It’s just a matter of when.
We in the media are big on covering lurid crime stories, but we rarely explain why they happen. That’s because the why requires judgements and once you make judgements the secular-progressive crew will come down on you.
Again, no one is blaming Jessie Davis and Nancy Benoit for the crimes. The women should be alive today. But those ladies made big mistakes. They were obligated to protect their children and I submit by allowing the chaos they allowed, they did not protect them. The result: a seven year old and a nine month old fetus were murdered.
The lesson here is a tough one. Every person makes mistakes, but some people live in that zone and will not stop their destructive behavior. If you are involved with that kind of person, get out. Now.
[/quote] I'm not going to get into your personal attacks on O'Reilly. This isn't a political discussion and you and I both know where the other stand. But I just wanted to get across Bill's point since pot shots had been taken at him without referencing his comments within proper context.
First of all, if you know anything about Bill O’Reilly, which I hope you do since you "loathe" him so much, you would know that one of his biggest crusades is to protect the kids. And protecting both the children and the innocent folks out there is the entire point he is trying to make here. Twice he says that he is not trying to demonize or place blame on the victims. But he also makes the valid point that if we are going to keep tragedies from recurring, we must analyze the flash points where we can stop the problems from happenning before it is too late. And he even says at this part of the memo that the reason more people don't do this is because that's when the s-p's come out in full force against you and twist the things you say and try to bring you down.
O'Reilly is using these two tragedies as examples of what is happenning more and more in our society. And he feels that the innocent people need to protect themselves (which many are not doing). And the only way to protect yourself is to get out and get away. Leave the situation for good. Now, I'm the last one to advocate divorce or the breaking up of families. But there are a very few situations that a marriage should not be attempted to be saved by any means (my personal beliefs) and that is when there is emotional, physical or sexual abuse going on. The chance of salvaging anything in these relationtionships is slim to nil and it is just not worth the risk.
Bill did not blame these women. He outlined how they were both very obviously in dangerous situations. And this type of situation is far too common in the world today. He was trying to make the point that anyone out there needs to evaluate any danger they may be in and then change their situation right away so we don't hear of more of these crimes happening. He just wants people to learn from the tragedies of others.
As for that Jon Stewart fellow, yeah... That was a joke. But I doubt there are any legit industry insiders who are willing to go up against O'Reilly just at this moment, even if they are in agreement with what needs to happen from here on out. And you should know that O'Reilly welcomes all comers on the show. If a WWE rep wanted on, they would be on tonight. So don't blame The Factor for that bozo being the only one willing to step up to the plate.
And since I am now finally posting in here, I guess I will put out my feelings on the basic subject of the thread. My heart goes out to the entire Benoit and Daus families. We may never know what sparked such a horrid tragedy. Everyone seems to want to either rationalize the situation or condemn Chris Benoit to an everlasting burning and anguish. But none of us know the circumstances he was in. None of us know his mindset and mental capacity at the moments where he made such awful decisions (if he even did make any conscious decisions). That is why I am glad that God, in His infinite wisdom and infinite mercy, will be the one to judge each of us. Only He knows what were the limits of Chris' ability to withstand the rigors of this mortal life, and whether those limits were at some point surpassed. And each of us will be judged in like merciful manner. That I am grateful for. Because I know I don't want to be judged fairly, because that means justice and not mercy.
Again, some have said that we shouldn't let this one thing ruin an otherwise great life. Some have shown their wish for him to be thrust down to Hell. Myself? I hate what he did. I hate that a man who had appeared to be so great in his public life was able to be broken to the point where he would commit such wretched acts. I feel such sorrow that a little boy and his mother were taken from this earth in such a violent, brutal manner. But I rejoice to know, in my heart of hearts, that Nancy and Daniel are together right now. And I pray for all their sakes that whatever happened was something beyond Benoit's control over his own mind and body and that someday maybe he will be reunited with his family. But again, only God knows.
Sorry for the super long post. Just so you all know, I will likely keep posting in here to a minimum. So anyone who wants to call me immature names for being a conservative on the internet, for being religious, for recently having a changed view in life that allows me to forgive murderers, or whatever other reason, just know I will likely not react. Plus, most of what is going on is just ridiculous speculation.
EDIT:
[quote name='Roufuss']I can't even get through the Triple H one... I had to turn it off as soon as he said "Respect for his family".
I can't imagine how *any* of those wrestlers must feel, knowing the real truth mere hours after recording that tribute.[/quote]
Deep and personal betrayal. From a man they all loved.
Here's a quote of him from tonight's programming blaming Woman for the death of her son: "The men involved were troubled and chaotic. The women involved had to know that... The women made big mistakes. They were obligated to protect their children and, I submit, by allowing the chaos they allowed, they did not protect them."
What a class
in' act. His guest for the night was a wrestler named Jon Stewart. Yes, your "who!?!?" reaction was the same one I had. He's a long-time indy nobody and (you guessed it) Republican politician, who unsuccessfully ran for Congress in Illinois' 10th district. He dropped out first of 11 Republican candidates. He's a jobber in the ring, and he's a jobber in Washington. Who the is he to be an expert on anything? Jesus, this guy makes Brian Christopher look like Hulk Hogan comparatively speaking.[/quote]ummm... I haven't said anything from the start of this thread because there is not much point. It is a terrible tragedy and none of us really know what to make of it (and maybe never will). But I have to insert myself here. I don't mean to start a fight with you (afterall, you are about the only person I respect in either the wrestling or political threads since you are also about the only person who can put together a coherent sentence), but did you actually watch the show or did you just get this off of MediaMatters or some other smear site? I didn't watch the show because I don't get FNC (yeah, BYU on-campus housing -- go figure). But I did watch the Talking Points on the website afterwards. And your post not only misses the point of his message entirely, but cuts out right before and comes back in right after two seperate points in his Memo where he explicitly expressed that he was not trying to villanize the victims. Your post just doesn't seem very fair to me. Although, to be fair, I had the same reaction as it started. But I had to remove my emotions and think about what the man was really saying. I typed up the entire Talking Points just now:[quote name='Talking Points Memo']Hi, I’m Bill O’Reilly. Thank you for watching us tonight.
Keeping yourself safe from harm. That is the subject of this evening’s Talking Points Memo.
In the last week, two gruesome stories have gotten a lot of attention: the murder of Jessie Davis and her nine month old fetus, allegedly by her boyfriend Bobby Cutts; and the murders of Nancy Benoit and her seven year old son, Daniel, by professional wrestler Chris Benoit, who then hung himself.
In both of these terrible situations, the men involved were troubled and chaotic, and the women involved had to know that. Now I'm not blaming the victims here. But I am saying that every one of us has to make smart decisions, especially when children are involved.
Jessie Davis had to know this Cutts guy was a chaotic, irresponsible person, with two families in Ohio and another out-of-wedlock child in California. Then Ms. Davis gets pregnant by Cutts again? Come on.
In the Benoit case authorities say the wrestler was actually injecting his seven year old son with some kind of substance, possibly human growth hormone. There were needle marks on the boy’s body. Nancy Benoit certainly should have seen that.
A few years ago she filed a domestic violence complaint against Benoit; also, anabolic steroids were found in the house.
Now most crimes of violence are committed by people who know their victims and irresponsible behavior is the tip off. If you are involved with someone who does chaotic things, you will get hurt. It’s just a matter of when.
We in the media are big on covering lurid crime stories, but we rarely explain why they happen. That’s because the why requires judgements and once you make judgements the secular-progressive crew will come down on you.
Again, no one is blaming Jessie Davis and Nancy Benoit for the crimes. The women should be alive today. But those ladies made big mistakes. They were obligated to protect their children and I submit by allowing the chaos they allowed, they did not protect them. The result: a seven year old and a nine month old fetus were murdered.
The lesson here is a tough one. Every person makes mistakes, but some people live in that zone and will not stop their destructive behavior. If you are involved with that kind of person, get out. Now.
[/quote] I'm not going to get into your personal attacks on O'Reilly. This isn't a political discussion and you and I both know where the other stand. But I just wanted to get across Bill's point since pot shots had been taken at him without referencing his comments within proper context.
First of all, if you know anything about Bill O’Reilly, which I hope you do since you "loathe" him so much, you would know that one of his biggest crusades is to protect the kids. And protecting both the children and the innocent folks out there is the entire point he is trying to make here. Twice he says that he is not trying to demonize or place blame on the victims. But he also makes the valid point that if we are going to keep tragedies from recurring, we must analyze the flash points where we can stop the problems from happenning before it is too late. And he even says at this part of the memo that the reason more people don't do this is because that's when the s-p's come out in full force against you and twist the things you say and try to bring you down.
O'Reilly is using these two tragedies as examples of what is happenning more and more in our society. And he feels that the innocent people need to protect themselves (which many are not doing). And the only way to protect yourself is to get out and get away. Leave the situation for good. Now, I'm the last one to advocate divorce or the breaking up of families. But there are a very few situations that a marriage should not be attempted to be saved by any means (my personal beliefs) and that is when there is emotional, physical or sexual abuse going on. The chance of salvaging anything in these relationtionships is slim to nil and it is just not worth the risk.
Bill did not blame these women. He outlined how they were both very obviously in dangerous situations. And this type of situation is far too common in the world today. He was trying to make the point that anyone out there needs to evaluate any danger they may be in and then change their situation right away so we don't hear of more of these crimes happening. He just wants people to learn from the tragedies of others.
As for that Jon Stewart fellow, yeah... That was a joke. But I doubt there are any legit industry insiders who are willing to go up against O'Reilly just at this moment, even if they are in agreement with what needs to happen from here on out. And you should know that O'Reilly welcomes all comers on the show. If a WWE rep wanted on, they would be on tonight. So don't blame The Factor for that bozo being the only one willing to step up to the plate.
And since I am now finally posting in here, I guess I will put out my feelings on the basic subject of the thread. My heart goes out to the entire Benoit and Daus families. We may never know what sparked such a horrid tragedy. Everyone seems to want to either rationalize the situation or condemn Chris Benoit to an everlasting burning and anguish. But none of us know the circumstances he was in. None of us know his mindset and mental capacity at the moments where he made such awful decisions (if he even did make any conscious decisions). That is why I am glad that God, in His infinite wisdom and infinite mercy, will be the one to judge each of us. Only He knows what were the limits of Chris' ability to withstand the rigors of this mortal life, and whether those limits were at some point surpassed. And each of us will be judged in like merciful manner. That I am grateful for. Because I know I don't want to be judged fairly, because that means justice and not mercy.
Again, some have said that we shouldn't let this one thing ruin an otherwise great life. Some have shown their wish for him to be thrust down to Hell. Myself? I hate what he did. I hate that a man who had appeared to be so great in his public life was able to be broken to the point where he would commit such wretched acts. I feel such sorrow that a little boy and his mother were taken from this earth in such a violent, brutal manner. But I rejoice to know, in my heart of hearts, that Nancy and Daniel are together right now. And I pray for all their sakes that whatever happened was something beyond Benoit's control over his own mind and body and that someday maybe he will be reunited with his family. But again, only God knows.
Sorry for the super long post. Just so you all know, I will likely keep posting in here to a minimum. So anyone who wants to call me immature names for being a conservative on the internet, for being religious, for recently having a changed view in life that allows me to forgive murderers, or whatever other reason, just know I will likely not react. Plus, most of what is going on is just ridiculous speculation.
EDIT:
[quote name='Roufuss']I can't even get through the Triple H one... I had to turn it off as soon as he said "Respect for his family".
I can't imagine how *any* of those wrestlers must feel, knowing the real truth mere hours after recording that tribute.[/quote]
Deep and personal betrayal. From a man they all loved.
Sofa King Cheap
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[quote name='Roufuss']I can't even get through the Triple H one... I had to turn it off as soon as he said "Respect for his family".
I can't imagine how *any* of those wrestlers must feel, knowing the real truth mere hours after recording that tribute.[/QUOTE]
At least Regal had the smarts not to comment much until knowing the whole story.
I'd love to know what criminal psychologists or psychiatrists, and law enforcement types think of his "Profile" taken from those testimonials. I'm sure they're interveiwing those close to him in the business (at least I hope they are).
I can't imagine how *any* of those wrestlers must feel, knowing the real truth mere hours after recording that tribute.[/QUOTE]
At least Regal had the smarts not to comment much until knowing the whole story.
I'd love to know what criminal psychologists or psychiatrists, and law enforcement types think of his "Profile" taken from those testimonials. I'm sure they're interveiwing those close to him in the business (at least I hope they are).
GuilewasNK
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Anyone else have issue with sound with this link?
GuilewasNK
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[quote name='Graystone']Works fine for me.[/quote]
Weird. I might try it at work if I get a chance.
Weird. I might try it at work if I get a chance.
[quote name='GuilewasNK']Weird. I might try it at work if I get a chance.[/QUOTE]
I'm on my ibook g4. Booker said he was pissed at Benoit. He wants to know why. Said when that was happening he just wanted to grab him and cool him down. Thats paraphrased.
I'm on my ibook g4. Booker said he was pissed at Benoit. He wants to know why. Said when that was happening he just wanted to grab him and cool him down. Thats paraphrased.
mykevermin
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MorPhiend, very briefly, my argument is that the phrase O'Reilly used, "no one is blaming Jessie Davis and Nancy Benoit for the crimes," does not rest of the sentence that follows, nor does it change that he *is* putting responsibility (and blame) on the women in these relationships.
It is a semantic maneuver not the slightest bit different from "I'm not a racist, but..." or "I have many black/latino friends, but..." He uses the phrase to defend himself from blame and criticism.
If you look at that particular sentence, his statement is "I'm not saying X, but...X."
Now, this is not strictly the fault of O'Reilly, but the media has latched onto the 'steroid' angle here like a pitbull, and not let go. NOBODY has touched upon fragile x syndrome (except for the New York Times, and even they barely did), and nobody has dealt with the family and life complications that brings with it. Instead, the discussion has centered around steroids and domestic abuse. That makes it an easier picture to portray - because we want to look at murderers as inherently evil and unforgivable people - moreover, we don't want to, as a society, have an understanding of "why" this happened that would make sense; somehow, that makes us as bad as the killer. I think that's part of the ignorance of the fragile x angle - people don't want to hear something that would make them have any semblance of pity for the murderer, no matter how infinitesimally small.
It is a semantic maneuver not the slightest bit different from "I'm not a racist, but..." or "I have many black/latino friends, but..." He uses the phrase to defend himself from blame and criticism.
If you look at that particular sentence, his statement is "I'm not saying X, but...X."
Now, this is not strictly the fault of O'Reilly, but the media has latched onto the 'steroid' angle here like a pitbull, and not let go. NOBODY has touched upon fragile x syndrome (except for the New York Times, and even they barely did), and nobody has dealt with the family and life complications that brings with it. Instead, the discussion has centered around steroids and domestic abuse. That makes it an easier picture to portray - because we want to look at murderers as inherently evil and unforgivable people - moreover, we don't want to, as a society, have an understanding of "why" this happened that would make sense; somehow, that makes us as bad as the killer. I think that's part of the ignorance of the fragile x angle - people don't want to hear something that would make them have any semblance of pity for the murderer, no matter how infinitesimally small.
[quote name='mykevermin']MorPhiend, very briefly, my argument is that the phrase O'Reilly used, "no one is blaming Jessie Davis and Nancy Benoit for the crimes," does not rest of the sentence that follows, nor does it change that he *is* putting responsibility (and blame) on the women in these relationships.
It is a semantic maneuver not the slightest bit different from "I'm not a racist, but..." or "I have many black/latino friends, but..." He uses the phrase to defend himself from blame and criticism.
If you look at that particular sentence, his statement is "I'm not saying X, but...X."
Now, this is not strictly the fault of O'Reilly, but the media has latched onto the 'steroid' angle here like a pitbull, and not let go. NOBODY has touched upon fragile x syndrome (except for the New York Times, and even they barely did), and nobody has dealt with the family and life complications that brings with it. Instead, the discussion has centered around steroids and domestic abuse. That makes it an easier picture to portray - because we want to look at murderers as inherently evil and unforgivable people - moreover, we don't want to, as a society, have an understanding of "why" this happened that would make sense; somehow, that makes us as bad as the killer. I think that's part of the ignorance of the fragile x angle - people don't want to hear something that would make them have any semblance of pity for the murderer, no matter how infinitesimally small.[/quote]
Good point, myke. Bottom line is none of us where there, so we will never know what really happened.
We can try to go over the angles and anaylize the evidence a million times and it still wont change the outcome.
It is a semantic maneuver not the slightest bit different from "I'm not a racist, but..." or "I have many black/latino friends, but..." He uses the phrase to defend himself from blame and criticism.
If you look at that particular sentence, his statement is "I'm not saying X, but...X."
Now, this is not strictly the fault of O'Reilly, but the media has latched onto the 'steroid' angle here like a pitbull, and not let go. NOBODY has touched upon fragile x syndrome (except for the New York Times, and even they barely did), and nobody has dealt with the family and life complications that brings with it. Instead, the discussion has centered around steroids and domestic abuse. That makes it an easier picture to portray - because we want to look at murderers as inherently evil and unforgivable people - moreover, we don't want to, as a society, have an understanding of "why" this happened that would make sense; somehow, that makes us as bad as the killer. I think that's part of the ignorance of the fragile x angle - people don't want to hear something that would make them have any semblance of pity for the murderer, no matter how infinitesimally small.[/quote]
Good point, myke. Bottom line is none of us where there, so we will never know what really happened.
We can try to go over the angles and anaylize the evidence a million times and it still wont change the outcome.
[quote name='mykevermin']MorPhiend, very briefly, my argument is that the phrase O'Reilly used, "no one is blaming Jessie Davis and Nancy Benoit for the crimes," does not rest of the sentence that follows, nor does it change that he *is* putting responsibility (and blame) on the women in these relationships.
It is a semantic maneuver not the slightest bit different from "I'm not a racist, but..." or "I have many black/latino friends, but..." He uses the phrase to defend himself from blame and criticism.
If you look at that particular sentence, his statement is "I'm not saying X, but...X."
Now, this is not strictly the fault of O'Reilly, but the media has latched onto the 'steroid' angle here like a pitbull, and not let go. NOBODY has touched upon fragile x syndrome (except for the New York Times, and even they barely did), and nobody has dealt with the family and life complications that brings with it. Instead, the discussion has centered around steroids and domestic abuse. That makes it an easier picture to portray - because we want to look at murderers as inherently evil and unforgivable people - moreover, we don't want to, as a society, have an understanding of "why" this happened that would make sense; somehow, that makes us as bad as the killer. I think that's part of the ignorance of the fragile x angle - people don't want to hear something that would make them have any semblance of pity for the murderer, no matter how infinitesimally small.[/quote]
well as far as tv media goes yeah they havent mentioned the kids sickness but if you read some of the print stories they recently started mention it and how the argument that led to her death may have been over her wanting benoit to spend more time at home and help her raise their son.
not that that makes his actions any better nothing will but youre right they could be leaving it out to keep him looking the monster which in my opinion fragile x or not he will always look like one. nobody will ever probably know what all led up to this though yeah there was a history of violence and yeah if thats the case and if it was still happening she should have left but whose to say he wouldnt just track her down and do it anyway?
it happened and without a time machine theres no changing it now what needs to be done is they need to investigate wwe and its workers to see if violence is common thing in wrestlers families and what leads to this and what if anything does the wwe do to stem this trend. could drugs be at fault could they have done more for benoit and others who have died young in dff ways?
it sucks that people like mcmahon in wrestling and peopel in other sport professions proffit enormously off of the hard work and sacrifice of their workers but then dont even try and help them out after wrestling ends. no health insurance, no workers comp, wrestling is cutthroat and i think understand just what goes on in that industry which very few of us ever will will help us find a way to keep things like this from happening down the road.
It is a semantic maneuver not the slightest bit different from "I'm not a racist, but..." or "I have many black/latino friends, but..." He uses the phrase to defend himself from blame and criticism.
If you look at that particular sentence, his statement is "I'm not saying X, but...X."
Now, this is not strictly the fault of O'Reilly, but the media has latched onto the 'steroid' angle here like a pitbull, and not let go. NOBODY has touched upon fragile x syndrome (except for the New York Times, and even they barely did), and nobody has dealt with the family and life complications that brings with it. Instead, the discussion has centered around steroids and domestic abuse. That makes it an easier picture to portray - because we want to look at murderers as inherently evil and unforgivable people - moreover, we don't want to, as a society, have an understanding of "why" this happened that would make sense; somehow, that makes us as bad as the killer. I think that's part of the ignorance of the fragile x angle - people don't want to hear something that would make them have any semblance of pity for the murderer, no matter how infinitesimally small.[/quote]
well as far as tv media goes yeah they havent mentioned the kids sickness but if you read some of the print stories they recently started mention it and how the argument that led to her death may have been over her wanting benoit to spend more time at home and help her raise their son.
not that that makes his actions any better nothing will but youre right they could be leaving it out to keep him looking the monster which in my opinion fragile x or not he will always look like one. nobody will ever probably know what all led up to this though yeah there was a history of violence and yeah if thats the case and if it was still happening she should have left but whose to say he wouldnt just track her down and do it anyway?
it happened and without a time machine theres no changing it now what needs to be done is they need to investigate wwe and its workers to see if violence is common thing in wrestlers families and what leads to this and what if anything does the wwe do to stem this trend. could drugs be at fault could they have done more for benoit and others who have died young in dff ways?
it sucks that people like mcmahon in wrestling and peopel in other sport professions proffit enormously off of the hard work and sacrifice of their workers but then dont even try and help them out after wrestling ends. no health insurance, no workers comp, wrestling is cutthroat and i think understand just what goes on in that industry which very few of us ever will will help us find a way to keep things like this from happening down the road.
Trancendental
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[quote name='mykevermin']Now, this is not strictly the fault of O'Reilly, but the media has latched onto the 'steroid' angle here like a pitbull, and not let go. NOBODY has touched upon fragile x syndrome (except for the New York Times, and even they barely did), and nobody has dealt with the family and life complications that brings with it. Instead, the discussion has centered around steroids and domestic abuse. That makes it an easier picture to portray - because we want to look at murderers as inherently evil and unforgivable people - moreover, we don't want to, as a society, have an understanding of "why" this happened that would make sense; somehow, that makes us as bad as the killer. I think that's part of the ignorance of the fragile x angle - people don't want to hear something that would make them have any semblance of pity for the murderer, no matter how infinitesimally small.[/quote]
I actually became interested when I heard of the Fragile X angle.
IMO this is a huge elephant-in-the-room for America (and probably the world). I can't imagine the stress inherent in having a 'special needs' child - of course people want to put all blame on Benoit and not admit that maybe society or societal policies could have helped put these wheels in motion (after all, contempt always feels better then guilt)
I actually became interested when I heard of the Fragile X angle.
IMO this is a huge elephant-in-the-room for America (and probably the world). I can't imagine the stress inherent in having a 'special needs' child - of course people want to put all blame on Benoit and not admit that maybe society or societal policies could have helped put these wheels in motion (after all, contempt always feels better then guilt)
mykevermin
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[quote name='camoor']IMO this is a huge elephant-in-the-room for America (and probably the world). I can't imagine the stress inherent in having a 'special needs' child - of course people want to put all blame on Benoit and not admit that maybe society or societal policies could have helped put these wheels in motion (after all, contempt always feels better then guilt)[/QUOTE]
Sure - society is responsible for a number of things that, IMO, they don't take responsibility for (the crime rate, for one, but that's getting way off topic). In the case of Benoit, however, his privacy, his pride, and his work schedule seem to interfere with his family relationship more than any sort of social stigma. The fact that everybody is shocked by this, and his close friends and coworkers continue (days after the facts came out) to say how much he loved his family, suggests as much.
I am, regretfully, in agreement with the authors of the "Family Annihilators" piece; this is a behavior that is going to be near impossible to predict, due primarily to its suddenness.
Sure - society is responsible for a number of things that, IMO, they don't take responsibility for (the crime rate, for one, but that's getting way off topic). In the case of Benoit, however, his privacy, his pride, and his work schedule seem to interfere with his family relationship more than any sort of social stigma. The fact that everybody is shocked by this, and his close friends and coworkers continue (days after the facts came out) to say how much he loved his family, suggests as much.
I am, regretfully, in agreement with the authors of the "Family Annihilators" piece; this is a behavior that is going to be near impossible to predict, due primarily to its suddenness.
GuilewasNK
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I think it is pretty silly how WWE wants to urge against specualtion of steroids being a cause, but has no problem with the specualtion of Fragile X being a factor.
[quote name='GuilewasNK']I think it is pretty silly how WWE wants to urge against specualtion of steroids being a cause, but has no problem with the specualtion of Fragile X being a factor.[/QUOTE]
I agree, but I know of no corporation that doesn't try to push blame away from it's own corporate culture.
I agree, but I know of no corporation that doesn't try to push blame away from it's own corporate culture.
mykevermin
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[quote name='Zen Davis']Sighs... It feels like all of this could have been prevented... Booker sounded like he felt the same way...[/QUOTE]
That sounds like a bunch of fanciful post-hoc suggestions to me. There may well be a pattern of seeing one's GP prior to the incident - but there are millions more people who see their general practitioner every day who don't engage in this sort of behavior. Finding these people in advance is like finding a needle in a haystack; do you suggest everyone who sees their doctor be subject to a mandatory after-the-fact psychological evaluation?
By the way, you're not alone here (JJSP has a bad habit of it, too), but if you're going to quote something, cite theing source. I don't know if you're copying from Reuters, the Journal of Smart People Monthly, or Joe-Bob's Blog and All-Purpose Leech Emporium.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1516969.stm
That sounds like a bunch of fanciful post-hoc suggestions to me. There may well be a pattern of seeing one's GP prior to the incident - but there are millions more people who see their general practitioner every day who don't engage in this sort of behavior. Finding these people in advance is like finding a needle in a haystack; do you suggest everyone who sees their doctor be subject to a mandatory after-the-fact psychological evaluation?
By the way, you're not alone here (JJSP has a bad habit of it, too), but if you're going to quote something, cite the
ing source. I don't know if you're copying from Reuters, the Journal of Smart People Monthly, or Joe-Bob's Blog and All-Purpose Leech Emporium.http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1516969.stm
GuilewasNK
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[quote name='the3rdkey']Wrestler or regular 9 to 5 worker this guy is a POS. He is a murderer and shouldn't be remembered for shit.[/quote]
The only good that can come out of this is maybe people will take a chance to get out of an abusive relationship instead of trying to accept their fate. That's really the only thing I think is worth remembering.
Debra speaking up is a good first step.
The only good that can come out of this is maybe people will take a chance to get out of an abusive relationship instead of trying to accept their fate. That's really the only thing I think is worth remembering.
Debra speaking up is a good first step.
Zen Davis
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[quote name='mykevermin']That sounds like a bunch of fanciful post-hoc suggestions to me. There may well be a pattern of seeing one's GP prior to the incident - but there are millions more people who see their general practitioner every day who don't engage in this sort of behavior. Finding these people in advance is like finding a needle in a haystack; do you suggest everyone who sees their doctor be subject to a mandatory after-the-fact psychological evaluation?
By the way, you're not alone here (JJSP has a bad habit of it, too), but if you're going to quote something, cite theing source. I don't know if you're copying from Reuters, the Journal of Smart People Monthly, or Joe-Bob's Blog and All-Purpose Leech Emporium.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1516969.stm[/quote]
Most of the time I do put up sources, I just thought since the concept had been brought up before it wasn't needed. Sorry! ^_^
I suggest that it was a tragedy and nothing more. It was aed up situation and I feel like if someone had found out about what was going on in Benoit's head, I believe that Benoit would be a mental institute getting the help he needed and nobody would have died. I think from visiting his physician to the cell phone messages he was looking for help, even if it wasn't the most outward of ways. Booker even alluded to that as well at how he was pissed at Chris. I'm pissed at Benoit too because this wasn't the way to go about it. It's never the way to go about it.... but it is what it is and you have to have wonder about what could have been.
By the way, you're not alone here (JJSP has a bad habit of it, too), but if you're going to quote something, cite the
ing source. I don't know if you're copying from Reuters, the Journal of Smart People Monthly, or Joe-Bob's Blog and All-Purpose Leech Emporium.http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1516969.stm[/quote]
Most of the time I do put up sources, I just thought since the concept had been brought up before it wasn't needed. Sorry! ^_^
I suggest that it was a tragedy and nothing more. It was a
ed up situation and I feel like if someone had found out about what was going on in Benoit's head, I believe that Benoit would be a mental institute getting the help he needed and nobody would have died. I think from visiting his physician to the cell phone messages he was looking for help, even if it wasn't the most outward of ways. Booker even alluded to that as well at how he was pissed at Chris. I'm pissed at Benoit too because this wasn't the way to go about it. It's never the way to go about it.... but it is what it is and you have to have wonder about what could have been.
mykevermin
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[quote name='Zen Davis']Most of the time I do put up sources, I just thought since the concept had been brought up before it wasn't needed. Sorry! ^_^[/quote]
'salright; no offense meant, you know how I use my language.
While I wish you were right (I'm still at a point, frankly, where I see Benoit on the news wires and think "this can't be real" - several days after the fact!), what I see is that, while patterns do emerge among this particular criminal typology, the patterns that emerge are indistinguishable from the kinds of behaviors other people engage in on a daily basis. This, in effect, makes identifying would-be 'family annihilators' impossible.
I suppose the easy questions are these: what tell-tale signs did Benoit give (other than visiting his GP)? Also, how would you recommend screening for would-be family annihilators?
'salright; no offense meant, you know how I use my language.
I suggest that it was a tragedy and nothing more. It was a
While I wish you were right (I'm still at a point, frankly, where I see Benoit on the news wires and think "this can't be real" - several days after the fact!), what I see is that, while patterns do emerge among this particular criminal typology, the patterns that emerge are indistinguishable from the kinds of behaviors other people engage in on a daily basis. This, in effect, makes identifying would-be 'family annihilators' impossible.
I suppose the easy questions are these: what tell-tale signs did Benoit give (other than visiting his GP)? Also, how would you recommend screening for would-be family annihilators?
Zen Davis
Banned
I think it would be easier for people to try and find out if they are the family annihilator type and trying to help themselves rather than sending out little clues and hoping that people find them. It's just too hard for others to make the connection.
I think that his professional career had something to do with it though, in terms of being told that he would never be a good main eventer by Michael Hayes (I believe) and the move to ECW as well. I don't believe this came out just because of his personal life, but because of a lack of faith and positive well being in his life. After giving everything he had to the business and still being told that he wasn't good enough to be a main event, that had to hurt him somehow.
I was researching it actually and found that I personally used to have cognitive distortions where I was always depressed or as I like to say it, emo, but I kind of came to the decision that I didn't like feeling like crap all the time and went through a long bout of changing how I perceived things.
I guess what I'm saying is that other than that helping yourself, which is basically coming out and overtly asking others for help, there is very little that could be done to stop this. It's like trying to stop an earthquake. You know they happen but you can't always predict how big they will be.
I think that his professional career had something to do with it though, in terms of being told that he would never be a good main eventer by Michael Hayes (I believe) and the move to ECW as well. I don't believe this came out just because of his personal life, but because of a lack of faith and positive well being in his life. After giving everything he had to the business and still being told that he wasn't good enough to be a main event, that had to hurt him somehow.
I was researching it actually and found that I personally used to have cognitive distortions where I was always depressed or as I like to say it, emo, but I kind of came to the decision that I didn't like feeling like crap all the time and went through a long bout of changing how I perceived things.
I guess what I'm saying is that other than that helping yourself, which is basically coming out and overtly asking others for help, there is very little that could be done to stop this. It's like trying to stop an earthquake. You know they happen but you can't always predict how big they will be.
GuilewasNK
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Vince McMahon on the Today show...
http://www.wwe.com/content/media/video/vms/none/2007/june22-28/4976922
Linda McMahon on Good Morning America...
http://www.wwe.com/content/media/video/vms/none/2007/june22-28/4977282
I haven't had a chance to check these out, but I thought I'd pass them along.
http://www.wwe.com/content/media/video/vms/none/2007/june22-28/4976922
Linda McMahon on Good Morning America...
http://www.wwe.com/content/media/video/vms/none/2007/june22-28/4977282
I haven't had a chance to check these out, but I thought I'd pass them along.
[quote name='camoor']I actually became interested when I heard of the Fragile X angle.
IMO this is a huge elephant-in-the-room for America (and probably the world). I can't imagine the stress inherent in having a 'special needs' child - of course people want to put all blame on Benoit and not admit that maybe society or societal policies could have helped put these wheels in motion (after all, contempt always feels better then guilt)[/QUOTE]
I have a child with Autism and I can attest that the Stress level is ENOURMOUSLY higher due to the fact you always have to worry about what is best for them. Not one aspect of my life is stress free when it comes to this and I could see how it would be too much for some people.....just my 2 cents.
IMO this is a huge elephant-in-the-room for America (and probably the world). I can't imagine the stress inherent in having a 'special needs' child - of course people want to put all blame on Benoit and not admit that maybe society or societal policies could have helped put these wheels in motion (after all, contempt always feels better then guilt)[/QUOTE]
I have a child with Autism and I can attest that the Stress level is ENOURMOUSLY higher due to the fact you always have to worry about what is best for them. Not one aspect of my life is stress free when it comes to this and I could see how it would be too much for some people.....just my 2 cents.
bread's done