Community Feedback Poll - Game Piracy

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I was being serious :D
Everything has to do with everything,.... I just got carried away. I'll be in Iraq in a few days, and wanted to spout; considering CAG is my home. I don't post much, so leave me alone :p
It just saddens me that I fell into every trap that was ever lied out for me, and don't want to see my online family in the same predicament.
Down with the pirates? :)
 
I dont really mind either way.... CAG has progressively been moving to a pirate friendly community since the PSP. I remember when you couldnt even mention it.
 
I do hope this poll will be reposted in a form where it can be voted on legitimately instead of people voting on a completely different issue than what is at hand.
 
So if new forum laws come to light, based on this poll question: users who have the game early will have to wait until the street date to post their impressions?

...

Wait. What?
 
I think that as long as we don't KNOW that it's pirated, I think it's okay. I'm sure some of our more legitimate gaming media sites have done similar things in the past.
 
[quote name='Ather']No. Obtain it legally like everyone else.[/QUOTE]
1.) That wasn't the question, and 2.) the question wouldn't have been asked if "everyone else" is obtaining legal copies.
 
I was attracted to this site initially because like everyone else, I want to save a few dollars while feeding my habit. Knowledge is power and the members of this site work together, pool their knowledge, and wind up helping each other while being helped at the same time. That's a nice feeling when you legitimately share information about the marketplace- it helps consumers and companies both. Demand is met, inventories are cleared, stock is turned, etc. Allowing pirated software a place of prominence on this site defeats the purpose- it's "Cheap Ass Gamer," not "Cheap Ass Pickpocket," and at the end of the day it's just plain wrong.

If a game has been pirated, not only was it illegally obtained, it was obtained for free. Not I'm not a fan of overpriced games, but thievery is where the line must be drawn. If we support posting known pirated information, we turn this site from a community of people helping each other by sharing information into an underground black market. If posting reviews of pirated software is allowed to happen here, it won't be long before threads about how to obtain that pirated software start to appear. I vote no.

Preserve the positive spirit of this site. We're a community of gamers helping gamers through legitimate means, not a network of petty crooks.
 
I'm down for letting them post impressions of the game. I could care less if that takes sales away from the game industry. Maybe they should make better games...

As for posting reviews of early releases, I'm not a fan. Early releases can contain bugs and be missing fixes that can genuinely hurt the review score (Assassins Creed watermark crash anyone?)

Also the question wasn't 'should we help people steal?!' It was whether or not someone can post their own opinion after they've already done what they shouldn't.

It's not supporting piracy, it's denying censorship!
 
[quote name='retrovertigo']I think that as long as we don't KNOW that it's pirated, I think it's okay. I'm sure some of our more legitimate gaming media sites have done similar things in the past.[/QUOTE]

Not necessarily. Tacit approval is still approval.
 
It all depends on what the early impressions were based on. If they were based on a pre-release copy of the game and the game has changed significantly before release, then the reviews do nothing to help the community.

Either way though, the discussion of downloading games(illegal back ups) has always been a hands off type of topic, with threads related to such things usually being locked within a day or less. But allowing the reviews of downloaded pre release copies of games sets a precedent that I don't think CAG wants to be affiliated with.

After all, if discussing the review of a downloaded copy of a game is considered legit, then who's to say that discussing downloading already released games is illegal? It would seem hypocritical to allow one and not the others.
 
Even though Piracy itself is illegal, the reviews of a game may act as a wake up call for a developer, it also serves as a warning to those of us interested in the game to be wary of laying down 50-60$ of our hard earned flipping cash :)

I say let sleeping dogs lie.
 
Whats the difference if some person says the game sucks a week before it comes out or the day it comes out. As long as he doesn't say how and where he got it from, I am fine with it.
 
[quote name='IAmTheCheapestGamer']It all depends on what the early impressions were based on. If they were based on a pre-release copy of the game and the game has changed significantly before release, then the reviews do nothing to help the community.[/QUOTE]

That would make sense, but how is the person who pirated the game going to know if it's an accurate version of something that hasn't been released yet?
 
It isn't like if this were allowed we'd suddenly see a huge increase in people pirating games just so they can post an early review. Pirating console games it a lot more of an involved process than pirating PC games and, frankly, the number of people with the capability as well as the skewed moral compass to actually pirate console games is fairly small. Is it right? No. But they are going to do it anyway and the only way to just end it entirely is to start banning people as has already been mentioned. Until it gets to that point, I don't see how posting impressions a little early harms anyone (and I don't particularly give a crap about the poor game makers, sorry).

On that note, though, all of the uneasiness about the quality of the pirated reviews is pretty hilarious. I don't trust most of you to give a decent review of a final, full release game that you get legit so what is the big deal about a review sailing the high seas? Also, most of the people on this site that I know of that pirate typically DON'T post their impressions for public consumption anyway, so this whole debate seems a bit pointless.

Also, by the way, some people that get games early, even through legit means, can actually contain themselves and not go blabbing about it.
 
[quote name='GF_Eric']It isn't like if this were allowed we'd suddenly see a huge increase in people pirating games just so they can post an early review.[/QUOTE]
DAMN IT. I mean I support your opinion!
 
absolutely not! all this does is encourage piracy. it encourages people who want to write about these previews, and it encourages people who are convinced to play these games.
 
[quote name='dboy81'] We're a community of gamers helping gamers through legitimate means, not a network of petty crooks.
[/quote]


So the Target 360 $10 coupon, CC $40 off $200, and numerous other coupon scans are legitimate?

:whistle2:k
 
[quote name='manthing']So the Target 360 $10 coupon, CC $40 off $200, and numerous other coupon scans are legitimate?

:whistle2:k[/QUOTE]

Don't forget PepsiStuff, the 360 Live site, the 360 retail site thread (which was closed from so many people abusing it), and countless other gray areas that CAG already deals with.
 
[quote name='lilboo']Actually, yes unless they state otherwise. Again, all companies care about is making a sale.[/quote]

The Target $10 coupon scans or the $5 off $25 toy coupon?

Umm, no.

That's why every Target near me(Target's birthplace) has signs near the weekly ad, and ALL registers saying the coupon is fradulent.


-----------------------------------------

I didn't forget those Zoo, but the person I was replying to only mentioned game deals
 
I'm assuming that this is pertaining primarily to PC, DS, and PSP games..

This is a forum, which will have little legal liability for particular users claiming to have obtained pirated copies. The files are not being shared, transferred, or hosted here... therefore, I believe that a neutral standpoint should be taken in discussing a game as long as the means to participate in pirating it are not hosted on this site.

Furthermore.. MSRP of a video game is what you call a price floor. The higher a price floor is set above market equilibrium... a price that the market, or consumers, feel the price asked is worth the value considered by the market.. people are going to find alternative means to obtain it. It's simple economics.

You see fewer instances of PS3, Wii, or 360 pre-release pirating due to a hardened degree of security. The ease of obtaining cracked PC games is not the sole reason of the failing PC gaming market.. it is the lack of program optimization for older components (let me release this game and EXPECT you to buy a new GPU), less marketing support, etc etc.

I say leave the ethical discussion of pirating in the vs. forum.. and discussion of a game.. regardless of the means it was obtained.. alone. If the means to obtain a pirated game are discussed, do what we've always done.. leave it for the mods to have something to do.
 
[quote name='Skylander7']I'm assuming that this is pertaining primarily to PC, DS, and PSP games.[/QUOTE]

It's probably come up as the culmination of a lot of those things, but the number of folks playing Rock Band 2 a week early may have been the final catalyst.

360 piracy is rampant. I've looked into the technical side of it, and it's entirely software-based and incredibly easy. Slightly more, but not as, complex as the PSP.

Moreover, there has always been a slight degree of tacit acceptance of talk of private torrent sites and the like, y'know?
 
I do understand that some will try to act coy and love the attention they get by posting their reviews early and of course the endless "how'd you get it already?" questions will come. But ultimately it's just a review. Besides street dates do get broken early sometimes, especially with small mom and pop stores.

Lastly, this is the internet, no one in the real world cares how cool your internet friends think you are! That's just sad! :cry:
 
[quote name='manthing']The Target $10 coupon scans or the $5 off $25 toy coupon?

Umm, no.

That's why every Target near me(Target's birthplace) has signs near the weekly ad, and ALL registers saying the coupon is fradulent.

[/quote]
That's part on Target for programming the coupon badly to allow the coupon to take $5 off ANY $25+ order, and part the fact that people Photoshopped it to remove the "toy" portion. If it had actually been restricted to items in the toy department (which doesn't include video games) I don't think you'd have seen them (or the internet at large) give two shits about it.

But if you'd like to start community polls regarding those topics as well, I'm sure you'd be more than welcome to. I might just vote no on those too!
 
[quote name='manthing']Finally here is a question for the CAG community:

Is there any difference if someone pirates a game or buys it used from Gamestop for the games publisher?

:whistle2:k[/quote]
/thread.


Yes vote for me.
 
[quote name='manthing']So the Target 360 $10 coupon, CC $40 off $200, and numerous other coupon scans are legitimate?

:whistle2:k[/quote]

I see what you are getting at, but I don't think it really applies to this discussion. Your argument revolves around CAGers trying to get over on cashiers/stores using existing tools, which is yet another discussion but not the same as tacitly condoning piracy. We can talk about the right and wrong of coupon scans, but the bottom line with that is you are not actively stealing property with a coupon scan.

In order to achieve an apples to apples comparison, you would have to debate something like creating a non-existent coupon from scratch and trying to pass it off as legit. That is an active intention to defraud, just like piracy is.

Nevertheless, I don't think your analogy applies here. It certainly is worthy of its own discussion, but not in this vein.
 
[quote name='manthing']Finally here is a question for the CAG community:

Is there any difference if someone pirates a game or buys it used from Gamestop for the games publisher?

:whistle2:k[/QUOTE]

Yes there is a difference, when you purchase a game you are obtaining a license to use it based on the copyright agreement between purchaser and publisher. You are buying permission to run their program. If you sale it to gamestop you are selling your license. If another person comes they are buying the license from gamestop. The reality is that they don't have to do that. They can say it’s a license that is solely for the original purchaser and its void if sold. But anyways what has the pirate done? Has he called long distance accruing a large phone bill to download the game..(not that it would be an excuse) no they sit back on the bandwidth of his neighbors so not only does he rip off his neighbors but the publisher also. Which in turn will rip off everyone as development cost rise as there are fewer buyers.

Look at the Amiga,Atari,dreamcast,3do etc and you will see dead systems mainly in part of piracy.
 
[quote name='fugazi70']
Look at the Amiga,Atari,dreamcast,3do etc and you will see dead systems mainly in part of piracy.[/QUOTE]
Then how do you explain the success of DS?
 
Oh, and as if encouraging people to only buy video games below profit margins for retailers is any BETTER for the industry. GET OVER YOURSELVES and stop pretending that this is FOR THE GOOD OF THE VIDEO GAMING INDUSTRY. The very nature of this site gives lie to that.

Moreover, for all this talk of the boogeyman "tacit acceptance of piracy," will we be required to sign and/or recite daily a pledge of piracy condemnation, just to make sure our bona fides are covered?

[quote name='dboy81']I see what you are getting at, but I don't think it really applies to this discussion. Your argument revolves around CAGers trying to get over on cashiers/stores using existing tools, which is yet another discussion but not the same as tacitly condoning piracy. We can talk about the right and wrong of coupon scans, but the bottom line with that is you are not actively stealing property with a coupon scan.

In order to achieve an apples to apples comparison, you would have to debate something like creating a non-existent coupon from scratch and trying to pass it off as legit. That is an active intention to defraud, just like piracy is.

Nevertheless, I don't think your analogy applies here. It certainly is worthy of its own discussion, but not in this vein.[/quote]
I find that argument as convincing as the countless arguments to give ethical cover to piracy. Taking advantage of a business's mistake is still acting in bad faith, taking from them profits in deals they do not advertise and do not intend to offer, and only avoid recourse because they don't want to deal with the hassle involved in it.

There is not a single CAGer out there who goes into this crap not knowing it is a glitch. Splitting hairs on that end is no different than splitting hairs on if it is possible to "steal" a series of 1s and 0s that you wouldn't buy anyway etc etc etc.
 
[quote name='corrosivefrost']And where in this thread do you get the idea that cheapyd and cag will be sponsoring piracy? Do you think they're going to give away a stack of R4s on the next CAGcast? WTF?[/QUOTE]

Well, once the results are let known, effectively he will be.

"Results are in, and it looks like review of pirated games are okay."
 
[quote name='RollingSkull']Oh, and as if encouraging people to only buy video games below profit margins for retailers is any BETTER for the industry. GET OVER YOURSELVES and stop pretending that this is FOR THE GOOD OF THE VIDEO GAMING INDUSTRY. The very nature of this site gives lie to that.

Moreover, for all this talk of the boogeyman "tacit acceptance of piracy," will we be required to sign and/or recite daily a pledge of piracy condemnation, just to make sure our bona fides are covered?


I find that argument as convincing as the countless arguments to give ethical cover to piracy. Taking advantage of a business's mistake is still acting in bad faith, taking from them profits in deals they do not advertise and do not intend to offer, and only avoid recourse because they don't want to deal with the hassle involved in it.

There is not a single CAGer out there who goes into this crap not knowing it is a glitch. Splitting hairs on that end is no different than splitting hairs on if it is possible to "steal" a series of 1s and 0s that you wouldn't buy anyway etc etc etc.
[/quote]

Whaaaa?
 
[quote name='dboy81']Whaaaa?[/quote]
Piracy = stealing
Defrauding a retailer CAG style = stealing
Piracy = Defrauding a retailer CAG style

You know, to avoid the "tacit acceptance of piracy" maybe we should just wordfilter the word piracy and related terms. That sort of censorship has been shown to take care of trouble issues in the past.
 
[quote name='crystalklear64']Then how do you explain the success of DS?[/QUOTE]

Hmm lets see I believe the paying fan base exceeds the piracy fan base. With the systems I mentioned they had more pirates than buyers. But as to the original quote ... a pirate has put in zero cents where the original buyer of the software has put in some money into the pot and other rebuyers later again have put money into the pot.
 
[quote name='fugazi70']Hmm lets see I believe the paying fan base exceeds the piracy fan base. With the systems I mentioned they had more pirates than buyers. But as to the original quote ... a pirate has put in zero cents where the original buyer of the software has put in some money into the pot and other rebuyers later again have put money into the pot.[/QUOTE]

So it's not pirarcy that killed the "Amiga,Atari,dreamcast,3do etc" more like they didn't have a wide enough fan base or supporters behind it. If people aren't supporting the system and getting behind it won't it fail either way?
 
fuck that.
[quote name='RollingSkull']Piracy = stealing
Defrauding a retailer CAG style = stealing
Piracy = Defrauding a retailer CAG style

You know, to avoid the "tacit acceptance of piracy" maybe we should just wordfilter the word piracy and related terms. That sort of censorship has been shown to take care of trouble issues in the past.[/quote]
 
its kind of close minded to just say no, i played halo 3, GTA4 and rockband 2 before release date, and i just turned around and bought it at full price ( actually got collectors editions of them) so for people to say that i am hurting the gaming industry are ignorant. I think a good game gets a good review, regardless if you are a press person or pirate. So gaming community rest assured, for me pirating is more like playing a long demo, and deciding whether it was worth buying, and will only hurt companies that make crap games and sell the for 60 dollars
 
[quote name='mykevermin']It's probably come up as the culmination of a lot of those things, but the number of folks playing Rock Band 2 a week early may have been the final catalyst.

360 piracy is rampant. I've looked into the technical side of it, and it's entirely software-based and incredibly easy. Slightly more, but not as, complex as the PSP.

Moreover, there has always been a slight degree of tacit acceptance of talk of private torrent sites and the like, y'know?[/QUOTE]

Just did some Googling.. wow, I was totally unaware it had become so easy. I mean.. whenever you pirate/crack, you have a tradeoff.. like no connectivity to servers for updates or multiplayer. So.. since a major portion of Rock Band II is downloadable content, I think a major portion of the fans will end up buying it at retail eventually.

I'd hate to take the same old cliche whored-out counterpoint to this... but look at Radiohead's last album. It was offered for free (granted it was at a crappy 192 kbps).. however, people still purchased it at retail and paid for special editions, etc.

[quote name='botticus']That's part on Target for programming the coupon badly to allow the coupon to take $5 off ANY $25+ order, and part the fact that people Photoshopped it to remove the "toy" portion.![/QUOTE]

That's a part of the problem I have with censoring this kind of stuff. deciding and participating in this sort of thing is a matter of PERSONAL responsibility. The individual chooses to accept the risks involved.. as for the distributor, did they have a secure pressing and distribution process? How did the game leak?? That's also their responsibility.

The more censorship that occurs on this site.. the less enjoyable it becomes. CAG has fleshed out to become much more than a simple game deals forum over the years. Buying into the ethical superiority complexes of some users (on either side of the fence) simply alienates those who are middle of the road on it.

I say allow the ethical and opinionated discussion on it in the already allowed pissing contest thread, and let's not get anal on game discussion. Game fans tend to be much more passionate about this kind of thing, and are more forceful with their opinions. Besides.. I haven't seen the early Rock Band 2 impressions.. but if no reviews are published by so-called "game journalists" on release day, and I'm expected to pay around $200 for the entire kit o-crap and it sucked...those opinions by the evil eye-patch wearing software pirates may be valuable.
 
[quote name='Skylander7']Just did some Googling.. wow, I was totally unaware it had become so easy. I mean.. whenever you pirate/crack, you have a tradeoff.. like no connectivity to servers for updates or multiplayer. So.. since a major portion of Rock Band II is downloadable content, I think a major portion of the fans will end up buying it at retail eventually.
[/QUOTE]

A burned game has the same functionality as a retail game, so it can access servers/Live.

360 games aren't "cracked". They are just copies of the retail DVD.
 
[quote name='Skylander7']Just did some Googling.. wow, I was totally unaware it had become so easy. I mean.. whenever you pirate/crack, you have a tradeoff.. like no connectivity to servers for updates or multiplayer. So.. since a major portion of Rock Band II is downloadable content, I think a major portion of the fans will end up buying it at retail eventually.[/QUOTE]

This generation of Xbox piracy ain't the same. At the risk of getting too close to talking about piracy, with the 360, you aren't adding a new firmware to the motherboard (like the Xbox Media Center or whatever it was called on the original dude). The 360 isn't "modded" in the traditional sense. In a way, you're basically getting one part of the machine drunk and coaxing it into thinking that a burned DVD = a store original.

This way, you're using the original 360 dashboard and everything else. As far as I can tell, it's indistinguishable from a regular 360. That goes for online play and everything (unlike with the original Xbox, where mod chips were able to be detected online and accounts banned).

Funny how things change as we move up a generation.

But, yeah, short story long is that 360 piracy is crazy all over the place. Take a minute and scour the 360 usernames of the OTT regulars (those who aren't yet savvy enough to delete them from their CAG profiles, or savvy enough to turn privacy settings on so you can't see what they have been playing).

You'll see folks playing RB2 - at least 10 or more people. The same people who manage to have, it would appear, an unlimited supply of funds based on the number of new releases they play each week, and also great hook ups, based on how they consistently get the newest titles a week ahead of time.

Oh, me, porbrecito. I called out the OTT. They're pirates. Whoop-dee-doo. Go fuckin' cry about it.
 
[quote name='zewone']A burned game has the same functionality as a retail game, so it can access servers/Live.

360 games aren't "cracked". They are just copies of the retail DVD.[/QUOTE]

I'm still looking into it (just takes a little while in employing my methods of bypassing our proxy blocks @ work).

So it doesn't require any changes to the 360 firmware that would result in adding risk to bricking the system or getting blocked from Live? I thought there was a digital signature on each disc that the 360 picked up quickly if it was tampered with (such as attempting to bypass media authentication)?

I'd say this.. if somebody would put the same amount of effort into cracking the Zune and its craptacular software & firmware.....
 
[quote name='mykevermin']
Oh, me, porbrecito. I called out the OTT. They're pirates. Whoop-dee-doo. Go fuckin' cry about it.[/QUOTE]

:lol: Are you okay?
 
[quote name='lordwow']I would be interested to see the results of this poll at some point in the future.[/QUOTE]

This poll will close on 09-18-2008 at 07:33 AM
 
[quote name='Gothic Walrus']The problem with that argument is that buying used games DOES help support the publisher, at least indirectly. GameStop and EB make a significant portion of their profit from used games. Without the sale of used games, chances are good the chain wouldn't be able to survive, which would kill the only national video game chain we have. Lousy business practices aside, if GameStop vanished it'd have a very significant effect on the publishers and the gaming industry as a whole.

There's a reason why you've never seen a store that sells new games and new games only, and that's because the profit margin on new titles and consoles isn't enough to keep them in business. And no, stores like Best Buy and Target may not sell used games, but they also carry a lot of non-gaming merchandise as well.

Again, though, this is completely unrelated to the original topic of discussion. This doesn't have anything to do with whether people should be allowed to discuss on CAG early impressions from pirated games.[/quote]
Agreed (to the last paragraph) but I think that we both have a different idea of what "supporting the publisher" means.

Supporting them Morally may motivate the people who work very hard on them but in the end all that matters is what's in the bank as this ultimately determines if there will be a sequel or not. Look. Do you think they they would not have anounced a sequel to some of those garbage DS games that are out there (like the bratz sequels or Vet sims) unless they made some sort of profit and lots of it to have it be feasable to produce a sequel. I don;t think it was the Moral support since those games usually get bad reviews all the time.

This would also not explain how it is ok for gamestop or block bastard Video to buy your games for practically nothing and on top of that, at times worthless store credits when they will orivude a minimal discount of 5 lousy dollars on a game (or 4.50 american). I know this is kind of off the original debate but I just don't see there being anything wrong with piracy. If I DL a Game and I have and I play it for more than 6 days straight I go out and buy it as it seems the publisher deserves my money or if I played the game a while and then see it cheap enough I buy it even if I do not play it again for a while. I see Piracy as a free rental. If I like it I buy it. If not then I discard or delete the sourcefile.

Sometimes systems benfit from Piracy. Perfect example is the PSP. Sony is moving hardware left right and center. And trust me, they need the money! Alright maybe not games but to be honst it's great for playing roms and homebrew apps which are awesome. The last game I bought for my psp was the SNK collection and before that the metal slug collection because they were worth my money. Most of the PSP games I play are garbage and I don't keep either. I don't see why I should support a publisher that makes shitty games. Oh but I can take the game to Gestappo and get 5 cents for a games that I purchased for 29 bucks. (I know I am over exaggerating).

Although Piracy is wrong morally I still think that it is a good way to evaluate a game that you have no intention of keeping and if you do, you know what you are buying.
 
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