Downloadable classic games = Big ripoff

And getting their money's worth would be buying what they need/want, and not paying extra for superfluous items they're not going to use, in my opinion.

If you want an example, look at me. I bought the Sonic Mega Collection. Waste of money. All I'm interested in playing on it (and all I have played in the year I've had it) is Sonic. I could have bought Sonic on the VC for $8, instead I paid $20 for it plus stuff I haven't touched. Which is the better deal?

And don't forget that Sonic is getting rereleased on GBA. That makes the VC download a steal in comparison.
http://www.ebgames.com/product.asp?product%5Fid=161105

To be honest, I'm hoping the mainstream thinks the VC is too expensive. More likely it will be cheaper sooner rather than later.
 
Why does the OP keep refuting "we're not the target audience" (which we aren't, being CAGs and all) with "YEA BUT I AM?"

I mean I read his rants and this is what I see:

[quote name='Grave_Addiction'] Now think about that for a minute. This is Chewbacca....[/QUOTE]
 
does any one know, when nintedo comes out with the wii2 (or whatever there next consle is) or they going to let us transfer our downloaded games to it?
 
[quote name='botticus']Since you continue to make this an issue with Nintendo (even though you can emulate almost every console made, including PS2), are you going to download any of the PS1 games that Sony makes available, or are you going to emulate those as well?

But thanks for reading my post and realizing that I emulate games as well. I just don't try to pretend I'm better than everyone else because I do something illegal. Do you laugh at your friends who drive the speed limit since you can get places 5 minutes faster by speeding?

Do what you want, just stop being an ass about it.[/quote]

i cant honestly say for sure whether i will or wont download ps3 games because i still dont know which of the 2 major systems im getting. it looks like the 360 will be cheaper to get especially with all the deals and what not but thats besides th epoint.

so hypothetically if i had a ps3 would i pay to download ps2 games? more than likely no but that would depend on the game and how much they charge for it. i dont think nes games are worth 5 bucks to download and the only sony games id be tempted to pay for woul dhave to be rare games or japan only titles but youre right they can be downloaded and if i knew of a place to download them i would but i dont.

now if nintendo did bundles of games for 5 bucks then id be more apt to say its worth it but only for those who dont have comp access to get emulators which if youre arguing on this site then chances are you have comp access and could get the emulators.

and also for the record im hating alot of he downloadable content floating around on all systems. if its not nintendo charging for things you can get for free its microsoft allowing game companies to gouge gamers for things that at one point were free for all.

and yeah i know sony may well follow suit and that sucks because we as gamers will end up screwed all over again and those in the power to change these things arrent doing anything about it. if the game downloads were for more than one games and at a decent ptice id be all for it but theyre not so id rather get the for free liek many people do and as you yourself do so why the hell complain and accuse me of stealing when you are as well?

and with that im done yammering abotu this crap nintendo sucks, sony is allowing its user base to be taken to the cleaners and sony is asking way too much for their new system. all in all this is the one system launch ive been the least excited about and i may just say screw it all and buy a ds since one thing nintendo does do well is handheld gaming .......even though i still think the touch screen is a gimmick.
 
[quote name='Strell']Why does the OP keep refuting "we're not the target audience" (which we aren't, being CAGs and all) with "YEA BUT I AM?"[/quote]

What are you talking about?

I'm saying the target audience is the average gamer. Not the hardcore gamer, not the mother of three who just got into gaming, but the person who plays somewhat regularly and would be interested in classic games.

I don't see how you can argue that one classic game that is about half the price of a compilation could be more valuable to anyone who values money.

I think you guys put too much stock in us being CAGs. I believe most gamers could be considered "CAGs" but just haven't found the site.

I think if you went up to an average person and asked which would you rather do: Pay $8 for one of 10 classic games, or pay $20 for 28 classic games that have nearly all of the $8 games? I bet you nine out of 10 people say they'd rather pay a little bit extra to get the better value.

You see this same principle applied all the time at gas stations or fast food joints with fountain drinks. A person might not be really thirsty when they go into the store for a fountain drink, but when they look at their choices:

16 oz. drink for $1
24 oz. drink for 1.25
64 oz. drink for 1.50

Most people will choose the 64 oz. drink because they feel it's the better value for their money, even if they don't plan to drink all of it. The same principle can be applied to classic compilations.

Looking at the list of games on Sega Genesis Collection, I'm sure most gamers who have been around awhile can name several games they'd like to have. So why would anyone rather buy two Virtual Console games when they could buy those same two games on Sega Genesis Collection for about the same price, but get 26 more games, too?

You guys can talk all day about, "What about the guy who only wants to play that one very special game they always wanted to play?" Well ya know what, there most likely isn't a great deal of those people around.

The mass majority of gamers who are looking to play classic games would rather have more for their money. It's plain and simple.

And if, by some off-the-wall reason, Nintendo is targeting people who only like one classic game and would rather not mess with buying more than one or two games at any give time, then that's their fault because the VC will most definitely fail.
 
Good points and/or annoying banter all around. All I've got to say is the Sega Genesis Collection sounds pretty damn sweet when all the games are listed: 2 Shinobis, Gain Ground, 3 Phantasy Stars and a bunch of decent platformers? I'm all about it.

Regarding Virtual Console stuff -- not so much. However, I never thought I'd download Galaga and Robotron for my 360, either. If they jazz 'em up, I may just pick up a few Wii derivatives -- though Nintendo's already beaten the retro horse many a time with their own games with the Animal Crossing inclusions, E-reader stuff, and GBA re-releases.
 
[quote name='Grave_Addiction']bla bla bla.[/QUOTE]

The "casual" gamer tries to sell SNES systems - with all the cords and controllers missing, and a coffee stain or two - for twenty bucks at a garage sale.

They have no f*cking clue.

That is the goddamn point.

Please find a way to turn this into another half page rant.

The whole problem with your arguments is that you equate to shit people actually know. Everyone knows a 64 ounce drink from a corner store for 79 cents is better than a 20 oz bottled one, value speaking.

However, none of those people know shit about the game industry. It's like how I feel bad for asking for DVDs or games for gifts around the holidays, because I know I could get the exact same stuff for probably 25-40% less than someone going into Best Buy and plunking down for it. My buddy for Christmas last year got me a Futurama DVD season, and he said he paid 40 for it. I was cringing, thinking "on DDD.com this was prolly 28, and I know I've seen it 20 on amazon.com."

But guess what, that is the difference between me and him. You educate yourself if you care about something, especially if it's a big hobby. It's why people do everything they do. You think these people give a shit about getting Shinobi when all they want is Sonic. Those people can't even spell Shinobi.

And those people who will gladly pay 8 bucks for X game on the VC because they don't know any better. They are just astounded they can get the game immediately and not have to worry about it not working, being scratched, getting lost, etc etc etc.
 
I don't know why everyone's giving you a hard time Grave. As it stand now the VC gamesare very overpriced. Alot of these VC prices are up to 5 times what you can buy the physical cartridge for, a cartridge that you can sell at a later date to recoup a significant portion of your investment.

At these prices the games need to have the features from the Xbox Live arcade games at the very least and even then only the best of the best games will be worth it. One of the only games that looks to be worth the money so far is Gunstar Heroes and even that is pushing it.
 
[quote name='Puzznic']I don't know why everyone's giving you a hard time Grave. As it stand now the VC gamesare very overpriced. Alot of these VC prices are up to 5 times what you can buy the physical cartridge for, a cartridge that you can sell at a later date to recoup a significant portion of your investment.
[/QUOTE]

Except that requires 1) Having the system, 2) the system needs to work, 3) you need space for the contollers and power cords, etc etc etc. And if you're going to use the recoup argument, what about the people who sell those systems during trade-in opportunities or sell them straight up for cash?

This is why you can't compare the two. It's like saying you can pay for a printed manual for your printer OR download it for free as a PDF file.

Those two things are inherently different. Some people like the physical copy, some don't give a shit either way.

No one is arguing this isn;t a cash grab. No one. We're saying the hysteria resulting from it is laughable, considering this isn't meant for us.

It's like saying sugar-free cereal sucks when it's meant for dieters/people with diabetes/etc. Just buy the non-sugar free and stfu. So if you want compilations and old systems, just do that. You're allowed to vote with your dollars just as much as the clueless mom that thinks "Solomon's Key! I haven't played that since I was in middle school!"
 
Like i said on another board

VC is highly disapointing. I can justify XBLA games because they add online play to a game which is awesome. Paying $8 to download sonic is just highway robbery.

The sad thing is some people still will even though they could probably buy Sonic Mega Collection on gamecube for $8
 
Take away my CAG license if you want, but I'm going to be buying a shit ton of these.

Are they overpriced? Somewhat, but if buying them and playing them on my TV, while sitting on my comfy couch, and without having to use a keyboard as a controller for an N64 game is worth it to me, then why should I care if it's "casual gamer-ish" or "non-CAG-ish?" Some people treat being a CAG like a religion; get over it. These games are the epitome of optional entertainment (even moreso than XBLA games), not having them doesn't detract from the Wii experience. Kudos to Nintendo for making serious bank off of their stuff; it's genius, and it will be a hit/selling point.

I really could care less about the whole emulation argument. Do I have some emulators on my PC? Yeah. Do I have a friend that has over 300 PS2 games that he's never paid more than the cost of a re-writable DVD for? You bet. Do I really care to pass judgment either way? No. The thing everyone needs to keep in mind is, it's all relative.
 
[quote name='Strell']Except that requires 1) Having the system, 2) the system needs to work, 3) you need space for the contollers and power cords, etc etc etc. And if you're going to use the recoup argument, what about the people who sell those systems during trade-in opportunities or sell them straight up for cash?

This is why you can't compare the two. It's like saying you can pay for a printed manual for your printer OR download it for free as a PDF file.

Those two things are inherently different. Some people like the physical copy, some don't give a shit either way.

No one is arguing this isn;t a cash grab. No one. We're saying the hysteria resulting from it is laughable, considering this isn't meant for us.

It's like saying sugar-free cereal sucks when it's meant for dieters/people with diabetes/etc. Just buy the non-sugar free and stfu. So if you want compilations and old systems, just do that. You're allowed to vote with your
dollars just as much as the clueless mom that thinks "Solomon's Key! I haven't played that since I was in middle school!"[/QUOTE]

You have some valid points but I don't think your points justify the prices. Convenience has a value but the VC game prices soar past that value. I don't expect the games to be given away but in my eyes the games are sitting at about twice what they should reasonably be expected to cost.

I don't think that ignorance is a viable business model, at least not in this case. Regular people might buy Super Mario bros or Legend of Zelda for $5 because they remember them from 20 years ago but I have some serious doubts that they will buy anything else. Take the TG16 games for example, normal people have probrobly never heard of the system much less any of the games on it.

I think there is happy pricing medium for the casual and diehard gamers alike. Unfortunately the current prices are not it IMO.
 
If the TG games don't sell, then they will lower the prices.

Why do people act like this is so set in stone that it'll never change?

And you can't put a price on convenience. You can't. That's totally relative to the person in question.

Some people like to keep a mini fridge in their living room to stop themselves from walking 10 feet to grab a beer. I imagine that the fridge costs $100+ and at least $20 or so a year to operate. And yet people do it, to save themselves from maybe 10 minutes of total walking for that same year. What a waste of money, right?

Try telling that to the guys that love having a brew at arm's length.

And I'm not calling ignorance a viable business model, but I am saying that is one of the main reasonings behind this.
 
He makes a good point with the16oz. drink or w/e. I mean come on if you were an average gamer and you saw in an ad "30 Sega games for 20 bucks" or "Sonic 2 for 8 bucks" and both had the game you wanted in them, would you honestly NOT buy the PS2 version for 20 bucks? PLUS YOUR GETTING A CD! There is resale value in this. There is no resale in a Wii VC game. You could probably get a bit of that money back once your done with it making the difference even smaller. Every gamer I know would go for the PS2 collection...that's just stupid not to. Like the topic says...it is a rip-off, and if anyone would actually spend 10 dollars Canadian for a freaking VC sega game...
 
[quote name='Spades22']He makes a good point with the16oz. drink or w/e. I mean come on if you were an average gamer and you saw in an ad "30 Sega games for 20 bucks" or "Sonic 2 for 8 bucks" and both had the game you wanted in them, would you honestly NOT buy the PS2 version for 20 bucks? PLUS YOUR GETTING A CD! There is resale value in this. There is no resale in a Wii VC game. You could probably get a bit of that money back once your done with it making the difference even smaller. Every gamer I know would go for the PS2 collection...that's just stupid not to.[/QUOTE]

But that requires the person to know of both.

And as I said earlier, the market this is being targeted at has no clue.

And what if clueless mom A doesn't have a PS2? Then you're telling her to shell out $130 for a system just to play Sonic.

Does anyone understand what the fuck I'm getting at here? It's like those arguments that say the PS3 is a better value than the 360, or the Wii is a ripoff, or the Wii + 360 is better than the PS3, etc etc etc.

None of that fucking matters. The dollar amount is totally unrelated to the person's measure of want and measure of satisfaction with getting a game on the VC right then and there as opposed to going to junk stores to find a working NES to play Super Mario Bros.

"BUt what about the Game Boy release? It's only $20!"

Yeah, after buying a fucking GBA SP.

That is why this argument is falling apart.
 
that disc seems to be a time killer. I never played any of the phantasy stars how do they hold up and what are they similar to? Are they the normal 40 hour rpg or a bit shorter?
 
[quote name='Strell']But that requires the person to know of both.

And as I said earlier, the market this is being targeted at has no clue.

And what if clueless mom A doesn't have a PS2? Then you're telling her to shell out $130 for a system just to play Sonic.

Does anyone understand what the fuck I'm getting at here? It's like those arguments that say the PS3 is a better value than the 360, or the Wii is a ripoff, or the Wii + 360 is better than the PS3, etc etc etc.

None of that fucking matters. The dollar amount is totally unrelated to the person's measure of want and measure of satisfaction with getting a game on the VC right then and there as opposed to going to junk stores to find a working NES to play Super Mario Bros.

"BUt what about the Game Boy release? It's only $20!"

Yeah, after buying a fucking GBA SP.

That is why this argument is falling apart.[/quote]
Just stop. This thread has spiraled out of control. The OP has a valid point that collection discs are a better value per game than VC games. Yet, this has turned into a idiot fest with people arguging the moral implications or lack thereof of stealing Intellectual Property from companies.

If you don't think stealing games is wrong, you're an idiot but I can do nothing to help you understand the error of your ways.

If you don't think the VC games are a good value, don't buy them.

If you have to get your Sonic on at the Wii's launch, it will cost you $8.

Done.
 
[quote name='Strell']But that requires the person to know of both.

And as I said earlier, the market this is being targeted at has no clue.

And what if clueless mom A doesn't have a PS2? Then you're telling her to shell out $130 for a system just to play Sonic.

Does anyone understand what the fuck I'm getting at here? It's like those arguments that say the PS3 is a better value than the 360, or the Wii is a ripoff, or the Wii + 360 is better than the PS3, etc etc etc.

None of that fucking matters. The dollar amount is totally unrelated to the person's measure of want and measure of satisfaction with getting a game on the VC right then and there as opposed to going to junk stores to find a working NES to play Super Mario Bros.

"BUt what about the Game Boy release? It's only $20!"

Yeah, after buying a fucking GBA SP.

That is why this argument is falling apart.[/quote]

So you're saying Nintendo built an entire virtual download network geared towards people who "have no clue" about video games? Think about that for a second and ask yourself if that seems like a very viable business model.

As of right now, those people are a fraction of the gaming populace and when you factor in those people have to actually be online, too, those numbers get even smaller.

If you look at some of the games available on the Virtual Console, it’s plain and clear these companies aren’t gearing their titles towards the uninformed gamers. How many of those gamers who you seem to think are the targeted audience ever played Gunstar Heroes or Ristar?
 
Let's just call it a day:

- Is stealing wrong? Yes
- Are compilation discs cheaper than buying individual games? Yes
- Are the VC games too expensive? Yes
- Are we still going to buy them? Yes
 
Uhh but the thing is, people do know about that kind of stuff. Heck I knew about it early when i started playing games, its just so stupid easy its not even funny. Go into a store, see a compilation for 20 bucks, go home and see one game in that collection of games for 10 bucks. Anyway what are you trying to argue? The thread title is that the games are a rip-off, and they are. We don't know yet what the consumer will buy so leave it at that. And to the above:

- Is stealing wrong? Yes, but downloading roms/music, who cares. They show kids on the news downloading stuff all the time and how "Kids are getting all their needs free" and junk so w/e.
- Are compilation discs cheaper than buying individual games? Yes
- Are the VC games too expensive? Yes
- Are we still going to buy them? ...No...
 
[quote name='jlarlee']that disc seems to be a time killer. I never played any of the phantasy stars how do they hold up and what are they similar to? Are they the normal 40 hour rpg or a bit shorter?[/QUOTE]

anyone played them?
 
Phantasy Star II-it was well respected for it's time, but IMO seemed really dated in both graphics and gameplay when I tried it.

Phantasy Star III-Much better graphics than II. It's gimick was your main character marries a third of the way through the game, and depending on who you married, you have a different child, who becomes the main character for the next third. That part of it is really cool (and back in the day I played through it multiple times to see all the characters).

There's tons of random battles and leveling up even for the time, so I'm not sure how much fun it would be now. After getting a SNES, I liked Final Fantasy IV WAY better, so yeah, this may not hold up that well.

Phantasy Star IV-I didn't get to own this because it was crazy expensive. Close to $100 I think because of the ROM size. I rented it though, and was blown away. It had the kind of production values and fun gameplay I expected from Square's stuff. This is really the game I'm buying the collection for. I just wish the series had continued.
 
I think the bigger question at this point is are we going to have to pay for these games in the next-gen? Will the future consoles support them and if so can we just copy them over? If I buy a game now at $8 how long is that game mine? Forever?
 
[quote name='jkam']I think the bigger question at this point is are we going to have to pay for these games in the next-gen? Will the future consoles support them and if so can we just copy them over? If I buy a game now at $8 how long is that game mine? Forever?[/QUOTE]

Yup, the DRM issues and that are the big questions for all three consoles' download services.
 
[quote name='Grave_Addiction']So you're saying Nintendo built an entire virtual download network geared towards people who "have no clue" about video games? Think about that for a second and ask yourself if that seems like a very viable business model.

As of right now, those people are a fraction of the gaming populace and when you factor in those people have to actually be online, too, those numbers get even smaller.

If you look at some of the games available on the Virtual Console, it’s plain and clear these companies aren’t gearing their titles towards the uninformed gamers. How many of those gamers who you seem to think are the targeted audience ever played Gunstar Heroes or Ristar?[/QUOTE]

Grave,

Normally, I'd say your argument makes sense. Nintendo does some odd things though. Did the E-Reader make sense? Did the GBA/Gamecube connectivity make sense (especially for FF CC, where you needed multiple GBA's to play)? They didn't to me, but Nintendo did it.

Nintendo has constantly overpriced the classics. I believe they use the logic of, a great game is a great game, no matter when it was made.

I think what's odd is, most gamers who truely value the rarer games probably already have many of the older systems. Most people who think Sonc 2 is worth $8 have it in some form already.

So, honestly, I'm thinking this will bomb out. Sure, will some people buy it, yes. Will lots of people, I doubt it.
 
I'm still confused as to why so many people on here are claiming $5-10 is a lot of money for a full game. I'm ecstatic when I can find a game for that price in-store.
 
[quote name='Puppy']I'm still confused as to why so many people on here are claiming $5-10 is a lot of money for a full game. I'm ecstatic when I can find a game for that price in-store.[/QUOTE]

The point is that you get a game for less than a dollar each on the Genesis collection coming out next week.... charging $8 is bordering on ridiculous given that.

Anyway, I'm lucky in that I own all but maybe 1 or 2 old games that I need so I'm not affected by the VC and its prices.
 
[quote name='jkam']As far as emulation I never really saw it as a perfect solution. I realize you can play a lot of games but the further you move up the chain of consoles the emulation starts to get shitty. It may be certain small graphical glitches or the sound is wonky but I feel it affects the game enough to be annoying. It never really feels the same to me playing games on my computer. To each his own I guess.[/QUOTE]

It seems as though it takes around a decade or so for them to get an emulator down perfect... which is fine as long as backwards compatibility is around. Still, for the 16-bit systems, emulators are basically perfect now... and considering that I have my PC hooked up to my TV, I enjoy the hell out of playing Super Metroid with better graphics and everything (and yes, I own the original carts of the games I play.)
 
[quote name='Chacrana']It seems as though it takes around a decade or so for them to get an emulator down perfect... which is fine as long as backwards compatibility is around. Still, for the 16-bit systems, emulators are basically perfect now... and considering that I have my PC hooked up to my TV, I enjoy the hell out of playing Super Metroid with better graphics and everything (and yes, I own the original carts of the games I play.)[/QUOTE]

Yeah 16-bit is basically perfect now. One game that always bothered me though was Starfox (SNES). It runs faster than the original game. I know a lot of people will say its fine but play it on the PC and then on the SNES and you'll see the difference pretty easily. Almost everything else runs well though.

Having your PC hooked up to your TV probably makes it a little more authentic feeling. I always wanted to do something like that with a little shuttle box but never got around to it. Then again I would be putting some money out for the PC so cost goes both ways.

I think the VC choice could go the other way too though...because it really is a matter of convenience more than anything. For someone who wants only to play Gunstar Heroes again and doesn't have a Genesis paying the $8 would seem like a good idea over buying a Genesis and the cart money wise. Well at least if they wanted to do it legally or didn't know about emulators. I guess the whole only having one system hooked up would be a bonus for some people as well.

I think everyone is going a little overboard though...cost is always a factor but you really don't have to buy any of the VC games if you don't want to. If you have or can get a compilation disc and see that as a better alternative then by all means go that route. We can all make our own choices.
 
This thread has an awesome mix of self righteousness and idiocy. How, in 2006, some people still feel like emulating 8 bit Nintendo games is wrong, is beyond me. Where am I supposed to buy them? If I wrote Nintendo a letter, asking them where I could buy a copy of NES pinball, so that all the profits could go to them, they would laugh in my face. By downloading the game, Nintendo loses $0. By purchasing it off eBay or at a garage sale, Nintendo gains $0. So, how is this wrong now? Oh yeah, because "The Man" says it is, that's right. I'm sure Daroga, CAG's resident Moral Authority, will just tell me I'm a crook now.

I can't wait to see Capcom's VC pricing. $5 a piece for Mega Man's 1 through 6, even though you can buy Mega Man Anniversary Collection, which has 3 more games, plus extras, for about $15 new.
 
[quote name='VanillaGorilla']If I wrote Nintendo a letter, asking them where I could buy a copy of NES pinball, so that all the profits could go to them, they would laugh in my face. [/quote]Or they would direct you to the new Virtual Console available through the Nintendo Wii, in stores on November 19. You can buy NES Pinball for only 500 Wii Points!

Come on, VG, at least do your research and use an example of a game NOT already announced for the VC.
 
[quote name='botticus']Or they would direct you to the new Virtual Console available through the Nintendo Wii, in stores on November 19. You can buy NES Pinball for only 500 Wii Points!

Come on, VG, at least do your research and use an example of a game NOT already announced for the VC.[/quote]I was using NES pinball as an example, and was referring to the actual cartridge, since my post was geared towards the "Purchase vs Emulate" arguement.
 
If people think their favorite, obscure, old ass game is gonna be on the VC, they are probably fooling themselves. Sure, the occassional TG16 or goofy NES game might be made available, but I would be willing to bet these VC games will be limited to the big name, well known titles. I could be wrong though, and you might get to see Princess Tomato in the Salad Kingdom or Battle Chess on the VC, but I doubt it.
 
[quote name='VanillaGorilla']If people think their favorite, obscure, old ass game is gonna be on the VC, they are probably fooling themselves. Sure, the occassional TG16 or goofy NES game might be made available, but I would be willing to bet these VC games will be limited to the big name, well known titles. I could be wrong though, and you might get to see Princess Tomato in the Salad Kingdom or Battle Chess on the VC, but I doubt it.[/quote]


well thats just it though i mean its being able to buy zelda for the wii so you can play nes zelda on your wii. not liek most people here dont have it for the nes or that they dont have it on the gba its all about being able to say hey i have it on my wii isnt that super!!!!!! maybe they will even have wiimote functionality so you can move up and down on the 2d screen.

long story short man people like you and me and the rest of the sane folk see this for the crock of shit it is and we wont buy into it but nintendo banks its sales on the fanboys who will buy anything that nintendo tells them to. if they were releasing rare and hard to find games or never released in the us games ok maybe those would be worth purchasing but like you said chances are they will just sell the games they know people will want because theres no risk there.

and id be curious if you can keep the games permanently if you buy them and what happens if your lose that download or your systems memory gets erased? will you all buy those games again if nintendo tells you that if you lose the download theres no refunds?
 
[quote name='VanillaGorilla']This thread has an awesome mix of self righteousness and idiocy. How, in 2006, some people still feel like emulating 8 bit Nintendo games is wrong, is beyond me. Where am I supposed to buy them? If I wrote Nintendo a letter, asking them where I could buy a copy of NES pinball, so that all the profits could go to them, they would laugh in my face. By downloading the game, Nintendo loses $0. By purchasing it off eBay or at a garage sale, Nintendo gains $0. So, how is this wrong now? Oh yeah, because "The Man" says it is, that's right. I'm sure Daroga, CAG's resident Moral Authority, will just tell me I'm a crook now.

I can't wait to see Capcom's VC pricing. $5 a piece for Mega Man's 1 through 6, even though you can buy Mega Man Anniversary Collection, which has 3 more games, plus extras, for about $15 new.[/quote]
See, now you've completely missed the point.

There were issues before Nintendo got the hint that old games were worthwhile, that if I wanted to play Super Mario Bros. and my NES didn't work, I was limited in my options. eBay? Maybe. Emulation was an option. While certainly a crime against the letter of the law, the spirit of the law to protect profits from piracy was not being violated, because Nintendo was not giving me the option to pay them for a product I wanted. They were missing out on revenue by not offering people the products they wanted.

But, starting with Animal Crossing and the NES Classics on GBA, Nintendo started to get the hint and provide legal (albeit, a bit obtuse or expensive) means to play some old games. Nintendo has now streamlined it with the VC and is now giving you the opportunity to legally purchase and play the games you wanted, or at least has a means to provide it to you should you make the demand known. Emulation's gray areas are quickly drying up--emulating the original Zelda without paying for it is now a cut-and-dry crime.

That all being said, I have strong feelings about Fair Use. If I buy a CD or download a song, I believe that, as long asI'm not sharing it beyond the bounds of my household, that I ought to be able to do what I want with that, be it burn a copy for the car, throw it on the iPod for jog, or listen to it in my home stereo. Surprisingly, looking to Microsoft's former liscence agreements for Windows XP is a good stance, I think. Their take was that the program could be installed on a desktop and a laptop at the same time, as long as both devices weren't being used at the same time. So, if I used a laptop on the road and a desktop at home, I could install the same copy of XP on both and be cool with them.

I feel the same way about games. If I own the game for the NES, I don't think I should have to pay again for a direct port in a GBA cart or on the Virtual Console. However, the way I FEEL is not the law. And though I may not agree with all the laws and their implications on my life, that doesn't change what is right and wrong by the laws of our country, state, or city.

Do I think I should be able to show that I own all the Mario games on NES carts and get them for free on the VC? Yes. Will that happen? No. So I have to make a choice, do I support something I don't agree with by paying for things I already own? Or do I just conent myself to own them in the one form that I do and use it that way? Those are my two options. Going beyond the law is not a third.

Do I feel that the games on the VC are overpriced? Yes. But I'll let my purchases or lack thereof send that message to the powers that be, not my being a thief.
 
The great thing about VG calling someone religiously stupid about something is that he then goes about doing the exact same thing for his beliefs.

It's stupid in a knife-in-the-toaster way.
 
[quote name='VanillaGorilla']In Minnesota, it's illegal to sleep naked.

In Georgia, it's illegal to possess a sex toy.

In New York, it's illegal to wear slippers after 10 p.m.

The emulation "laws" are as stupid as those. Get over it people.[/quote]

:hot: I'm a serial offender!
 
[quote name='Kayden']I wonder if I can see Strell's anuersym rupture from here....[/QUOTE]

Some 30-40 words qualifies for an anuerysm these days?

Or are you actually deluding yourself into thinking I give a shit about whatever nonsense it is you have to say about anything (CAGcast notwithstanding, as someone had to say that shit).
 
[quote name='daroga'] Nintendo has now streamlined it with the VC and is now giving you the opportunity to legally purchase and play the games you wanted, or at least has a means to provide it to you should you make the demand known. Emulation's gray areas are quickly drying up--emulating the original Zelda without paying for it is now a cut-and-dry crime.
[/quote]

If you own an original Zelda, it is not illegal to emulate it. Providing the VC service does not make it so -- you still have the Fair Use right to create a personal copy of your Zelda and the emulator itself is not (necessarily) illegal.

VC does create a legal avenue for those who do not have an original Zelda, though. And Fair Use does not entitle Zelda owners to play NES Zelda on the Wii.

And things are rarely cut and dry:

If I own a copy of Animal Crossing, does that count as owning a copy of the original Zelda? It contains the code.

When, I wonder, will someone create a device that lets you plug in NES/SNES/N64 carts to transfer to your Wii? And how long will it take Nintendo to sue them?
 
[quote name='Puffa469']
As it looks now, I wont be buying any VC games. I would if they were cheaper tho.

Heres the thing. I wont pay $8 for a vc game. BUT, if the games were $1 each, I'd probably buy 8 of them or more. Many more actually, So Sega, or Nintnedo or whoever, would still make that money off of me if they would just be more reasonable.

If games were $1 each, I could see myself having 100 or more on my Wii (if it holds that many). Thats $100 spent. But at $8 a pop, or more in some cases, I will be spending $0 on vc games.
[/quote]

I just wanted to quote this because it's exactly how I feel. If the games were this cheap, I would probably buy nearly everything. I might even ebay all my original classic systems and games. I would not think twice at dropping over $100 this way, and would continue to buy them as they became available. I think there are also collectors/completists who wouldn't be able to help themselves.

But at $5-$8 each or more? No way. Unless they offer something rare or original, my VC purchases will total $0.

I don't think Nintendo will make more money chasing the clueless market, because I just don't see even the most clueless people repeatedly shelling out buckets of money for a few ancient games. A few times? Sure. A lot? I doubt it.
 
[quote name='jkam']I say buy them if you want them leave them if you don't.

Close Thread.[/quote]

True, but this is the internet, and that would make too much sense, and we can't have THAT now can we?
 
[quote name='Strell']Some 30-40 words qualifies for an anuerysm these days?

Or are you actually deluding yourself into thinking I give a shit about whatever nonsense it is you have to say about anything (CAGcast notwithstanding, as someone had to say that shit).[/quote]

Uh... no? Just seeing how verbose you get over such an insignificant subject. We know its dumb. We know hes dumb. Yet you still assault him with you grandoise vernacular. :p
 
[quote name='Kayden']Uh... no? Just seeing how verbose you get over such an insignificant subject. We know its dumb. We know hes dumb. Yet you still assault him with you grandoise vernacular. :p[/QUOTE]

Now I know you can read and I am quite sure you've seen other posts of mine, ya bitch. :p
 
[quote name='Strell']Now I know you can read and I am quite sure you've seen other posts of mine, ya bitch. :p[/quote]

Penis?
 
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