Game Database / Community Moderation / Product Editing: So many questions... so little answers... now waiting for CAG 4.0...

phantomphoenix said:
Hey guys... this is the community mod thread... :roll: Kidding! :lol: Yeah, I've noticed that problem as well. Found that I had reported it here. Seeing my post, I just noticed that the weird underline on dates still occurs in Firefox but not Chrome. I guess I got used to it.

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2016.01.22 CAG timestamp underline.png

John, while we are talking about other problems/suggestions, should I post them in the CAG Defacing/Hacking News & Updates thread? I know certain features are still coming back online (e.g. galleries), and it's understood given the circumstances, but there are still a lot of issues that I/we had posted in the 3.0 upgrade and maintenance threads that were never really addressed. Hopefully we can get on a roll and start tackling them!
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Posting a new thread now for all site issues to be reported in. The 3.0 upgrade thread has become unwieldy.

 
Excellent. Unless you say otherwise, I'll continue to post community mod specific issues in this thread.

While uploading some images for the previously unsearchable dupes, I came across these two for LoZ: TfH, which are now both searchable. I guess get rid of the one without the image. Thanks!

https://www.cheapassgamer.com/index.php?app=productinfo&productid=535066

https://www.cheapassgamer.com/index.php?app=productinfo&productid=535119

Also this Rare Replay which didn't get marked as a dupe since it was incorrectly added for (360).

https://www.cheapassgamer.com/?app=productinfo&module=overview&productid=535059

 
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Fixed TfH, I'll hold off on Rare Replay as I need to add a mechanism to allow people to flag games for deletion. 

Also working on a bunch of new tools for moderation. Will post updates on that shortly. 

 
John, the apostrophe fix you said you just made in the other thread might not be working properly. Someone added Yoshi's Wooly World (with "Woolly" misspelled). You can find the new entry by simply searching for "Yoshi's" or "Yoshi," but can't find the correctly spelled one this way. The correctly spelled entry is searchable since it can be found via a "Woolly" search.

 
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Previously an apostrophe in any word would omit that word from the search - the problem with the Yoshi example is that searching for "wooly" won't include any record with "woolly" in. I'll investigate ways to improve the fuzzy searching (no pun intended, but I'll take it).

 
A few community moderation changes went live today, including a queue viewer so you can actually see what's in the system pending approval.
 
John said:
Previously an apostrophe in any word would omit that word from the search - the problem with the Yoshi example is that searching for "wooly" won't include any record with "woolly" in. I'll investigate ways to improve the fuzzy searching (no pun intended, but I'll take it).
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Hmm... I know I did a lot of Pandora's Tower searches, but don't remember if I was searching with or without the apostrophe (and s). Is that the reason this Pandora's Tower is still not found via "Pandora" or "Pandora's"? Same for the older Yoshi's Wooly World? The situation you describe sounds similar to "&" and ":" searches. A search for "Zelda:" will provide no results, but "Zelda" obviously does.

I'm sure you're already thinking about it, but you'd have to account for misspellings, alternate punctuation, alternate number usage (e.g. roman vs. arabic numerals), different spacing (e.g. Tri Force vs. Triforce, I always thought it was the latter, but it seems the official styling is with a space for that specific game), etc.

I hope it was a two layer pun because of the association of fuzzy to woolly and Fuzzies in Yoshi's Island! ;)

NOTE: Was having some trouble linking the Fuzzy (happens to this one) link and it might have to do with apostrophes. Seems that if a URL has an apostrophe, and the URL is linked through other text, the link will (always?) drop everything after the apostrophe. I looked at the BBCode editor and everything looks fine, but it's just not working.

John said:
A few community moderation changes went live today, including a queue viewer so you can actually see what's in the system pending approval.
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This looks great! Thank you! Only thing I've noticed on a quick view of it, is that the "Pending" tab does not populate with any listings when I'm signed it, but does when I'm logged off.

 
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Some really weird stuff happening when I try to edit that last message... wow... I guess it really doesn't like apostrophes! First it was applying the URL code(s) and some other code to everything after the second "Fuzzy." After I edited, it merged "Fuzzies" and "Fuzzy" so that all text in between the iterations got removed. In my last edit, it's doing something similar to the first edit attempt. You can quote my message to see what's happening for yourself. I'm thinking maybe going back and forth between WYSISYG and BBCode may have triggered some of the problems. Or it might have to do with the redirect portion of the link after a post is refreshed or newly seen. I can post the link and click it fine, but after refreshing the page, the link no longer works properly.
 
See what your pun did! :lol:

Level in which fuzzies are featured.

Fuzzy (will not work properly).

 
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So, I just figured out that the "Pending" tab was empty for me because it lists edits pending my personal vote, of which there were none. However, I did notice that some edits still do not get listed. Don't know what's going on there, but I'm assuming they are the same edits that nobody will see when clicking through the automatically generated "Save and Continue" edits.

Did the test again where Fire Emblem Fates: Birthright got the game tag on the first add. That edit did not enter the queue. I did not tag FEF: Conquest on the first add, and therefore, there was no edit to even enter the queue. When I went back and edited each entry with the game tag, both entered the queue. I'm thinking that maybe any tags made on the initial submission are the ones not entering the queue.

 
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Yeah, the strict accuracy of the search is unintended behaviour. Looking into it.

phantomphoenix said:
This looks great! Thank you! Only thing I've noticed on a quick view of it, is that the "Pending" tab does not populate with any listings when I'm signed it, but does when I'm logged off.
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Ah, it was set to hide games from the list if you've already voted on it. Fixed.
 
John said:
Ah, it was set to hide games from the list if you've already voted on it. Fixed.
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Any way to toggle between global pending and personal pending? Maybe in the status column?

Any chance to make the community mod menus/tabs float when scrolling down? Similarly, any chance to make the price tracker v4's menus/tabs fixed as well?

 
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I've made new game tag edits that have already been denied. While possible, I find it hard to believe that they've already been voted on. All of my "New Tag" edits are "game" tags, and only two have ever been approved.

[attachment=19801:2016.01.25 CAG comm mod newly added tags already denied.png]

 
htz said:
https://www.cheapassgamer.com/?app=moderation&module=view&id=1528

Same, not sure why my submission was denied.
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Oh boy... that's gonna ruin our scores. :cry: I approved nearly all of your edits, if not all. And I saw a few more of your edits were already denied. I'm just surprised that they've been finalized already. I'm pretty sure clicking "Save and Continue" without actually voting casts a denial vote. Maybe users have been doing that...? Or maybe, all submitted approval votes are actually being accepted as denials...?

 
phantomphoenix said:
Oh boy... that's gonna ruin our scores. :cry: I approved nearly all of your edits, if not all. And I saw a few more of your edits were already denied. I'm just surprised that they've been finalized already. I'm pretty sure clicking "Save and Continue" without actually voting casts a denial vote. Maybe users have been doing that...? Or maybe, all submitted approval votes are actually being accepted as denials...?
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https://www.cheapassgamer.com/?app=moderation&module=view&id=1526

https://www.cheapassgamer.com/?app=moderation&module=view&id=1529

https://www.cheapassgamer.com/?app=moderation&module=view&id=1533

I received denials for the above submissions so far which doesn't seem right...

 
When I first started judging edits, I would simply click through without actually voting on edits that I didn't know, so that I could get to the next available edit. Hard to imagine that's what's happening though since they are being denied so quickly and doesn't explain why the Tom Clancy's The Division image was denied. Any other denied images what weren't dupe uploads by you for the same database entry?

 
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htz said:
I received denials for the above submissions so far which doesn't seem right...
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When I first started judging edits, I would simply click through without actually voting on edits that I didn't know, so that I could get to the next available edit. Hard to imagine that's what's happening though since they are being denied so quickly and doesn't explain why the Tom Clancy's The Division image was denied. Any other denied images what weren't dupe uploads by you for the same database entry?

 
phantomphoenix said:
When I first started judging edits, I would simply click through without actually voting on edits that I didn't know, so that I could get to the next available edit. Hard to imagine that's what's happening though since they are being denied so quickly and doesn't explain why the Tom Clancy's The Division image was denied. Any other denied images what weren't dupe uploads by you for the same database entry?
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I think that was the only one. I did have a new Uncharted 4 product image denied. It might had been because another Uncharted 4 in the database had the same image.

https://www.cheapassgamer.com/?app=moderation&module=view&id=1532

 
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Wouldn't make sense to me. Here's a recent example:

Yoshi's Woolly World product page 533868, 535132.

Respective image edit 1185, 1508.

Watch John delete the dupe before you get a chance to see it! :lol: I guess you can still see the edit pages though.

 
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Catching up on this thread. It's definitely a bug rather than a couple of users downvoting everything, htz's Uncharted 4 image was only voted on by htz and it was denied. (Definitely not intended behaviour!)

Updates incoming shortly...
 
27 Jan 2016 - Community moderation: You can now see the entire voting history for every change in the queue.

27 Jan 2016 - Community moderation: Null votes no longer count as a denial.
27 Jan 2016 - Community moderation: The number of votes required needed to approve/deny a change is now displayed.
 
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Awesome, John! I'm was seeing as you were making the changes live! :)

In the few edits I'm going back over, I'm noticing a kinda standstill because of things like the title isn't perfect, the platform isn't correct, or this guy who wants to add hardware, but looks like is going to be denied :cry: (because of the 360 association...?), and so on. I think this voting history will definitely sway votes - I've already gone and changed a few - but I think some of these denial reasons will just make more work when those small errors could just be fixed. Is it possible to relay that message like you do for image specifications?

 
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I think voting histories will definitely sway decisions, but any disadvantage from that will be negated by eliminating anonymity from users who just approve/decline everything for the hell of it. A few of the top mods in the leaderboard have seemingly earned those points by voting at random - htz accidentally removed a bunch of game tags from 3 releases, and I can't think of a good reason why anyone would approve those. (And yet, 4 users approved each and every one of them.)

I'm adding an option to flag a product for deletion, which fixes people voting on products where the changes are irrelevant due to incorrect platform, or a game that doesn't exist.

 
John said:
27 Jan 2016 - Community moderation: You can now see the entire voting history for every change in the queue.
27 Jan 2016 - Community moderation: Null votes no longer count as a denial.
27 Jan 2016 - Community moderation: The number of votes required needed to approve/deny a change is now displayed.
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Nice, this will help a lot in understanding what's going on during the approval process.

John said:
I think voting histories will definitely sway decisions, but any disadvantage from that will be negated by eliminating anonymity from users who just approve/decline everything for the hell of it. A few of the top mods in the leaderboard have seemingly earned those points by voting at random - htz accidentally removed a bunch of game tags from 3 releases, and I can't think of a good reason why anyone would approve those. (And yet, 4 users approved each and every one of them.)

I'm adding an option to flag a product for deletion, which fixes people voting on products where the changes are irrelevant due to incorrect platform, or a game that doesn't exist.
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I have been helping out with the game database more due to the recent fixes you added which made it more usable. Still learning how everything works, heh.

 
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John said:
I think voting histories will definitely sway decisions, but any disadvantage from that will be negated by eliminating anonymity from users who just approve/decline everything for the hell of it. A few of the top mods in the leaderboard have seemingly earned those points by voting at random - htz accidentally removed a bunch of game tags from 3 releases, and I can't think of a good reason why anyone would approve those. (And yet, 4 users approved each and every one of them.)

I'm adding an option to flag a product for deletion, which fixes people voting on products where the changes are irrelevant due to incorrect platform, or a game that doesn't exist.
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I think those removal tag votes were because people are not accustomed to seeing a removal edit and quickly read it as an addition. I admit, that's what happened to me. But then htz posted his note, I saw it, then changed my vote. So, I'd like to suggest something that stands out visually for removals, like highlighting the word "Removal" (if that was the word) in red.

 
John, just a little confused by this sentence on the product edit page: "It's not a tool for removing duplicate products."

Don't know how you would want us to deal with games like the aforementioned M&L: Dream Team dupes (even though they weren't exactly dupes) or the Pandora's Tower dupes (where it would be better to wait till the search is more reliable, since if the later two were deleted, a user might search, not find it, and add it again).

phantomphoenix said:
Could you please make this Pandora's Tower searchable? For whatever reason, it's older but not searchable. And delete these dupes:

https://www.cheapassgamer.com/?app=productinfo&module=overview&productid=531030

https://www.cheapassgamer.com/?app=productinfo&module=overview&productid=534985

EDIT: The first is searchable, but not found via a "Pandora" or "Pandora's" search.
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There are 395 edits in the moderation queue.

[attachment=19820:community moderation.png]

This is all I see under my pending tab and I have pretty much voted on each one. Where's the rest?

P.S. What does "Skip Product Name Matching in Posts," in the edit page do?

 
phantomphoenix said:
John, just a little confused by this sentence on the product edit page: "It's not a tool for removing duplicate products."

Don't know how you would want us to deal with games like the aforementioned M&L: Dream Team dupes (even though they weren't exactly dupes) or the Pandora's Tower dupes (where it would be better to wait till the search is more reliable, since if the later two were deleted, a user might search, not find it, and add it again).
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A tool for dealing with duplicates is coming. Basically, it's down to the fact that if we have duplicate games, we can't tell which one people have been adding to their collections/wishlists. The answer is, probably both - so if we outright delete one or the other, it's going to screw some people over. We're going to need a duplicate merging tool to make sure that nobody loses game entries from their lists.

 
htz said:
There are 395 edits in the moderation queue.

attachicon.gif
community moderation.png

This is all I see under my pending tab and I have pretty much voted on each one. Where's the rest?

P.S. What does "Skip Product Name Matching in Posts," in the edit page do?
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Yeah, that value is incorrect. Will sort it out momentarily.

Product name matching is an upcoming feature where we can automatically figure out which games you're talking about in certain posts. (So in theory, when you go to the game page we'll be able to show forum content related directly to those games.) That toggle is for games where the title is a common word, to prevent false positives.

 
How about this question then... If I change this Star Wars Battlefront III (PC) to Star Wars: Battlefront (2015) (PC), will it remove it from that list of "available on" and place it with the PS4 and XONE versions? This may have been the reason, I didn't do the PC version when I did the others.

 
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phantomphoenix said:
How about this question then... If I change this Star Wars Battlefront III (PC) to Star Wars: Battlefront (2015) (PC), will it remove it from that list of "available on" and place it with the PS4 and XONE versions? This may have been the reason, I didn't do the PC version when I did the others.
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I don't think it will - that's why I need to implement those grouping tools. At the moment it's fairly basic, in that it matches it based on name when the game is created.

 
John said:
I think voting histories will definitely sway decisions, but any disadvantage from that will be negated by eliminating anonymity from users who just approve/decline everything for the hell of it. A few of the top mods in the leaderboard have seemingly earned those points by voting at random - htz accidentally removed a bunch of game tags from 3 releases, and I can't think of a good reason why anyone would approve those. (And yet, 4 users approved each and every one of them.)

I'm adding an option to flag a product for deletion, which fixes people voting on products where the changes are irrelevant due to incorrect platform, or a game that doesn't exist.
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Count me as one that didn't know we were able to post removal of game tags as possible edits (thought we could only add / change in the past), though now with the new moderation features I'll be sure to read in detail.

Maybe color code these edits if there is something to be removed? I don't think anyone is against adding to the database, but removing obviously should be flagged. The voting history does help in that department though.

 
Billytwoshoes said:
Count me as one that didn't know we were able to post removal of game tags as possible edits (thought we could only add / change in the past), though now with the new moderation features I'll be sure to read in detail.

Maybe color code these edits if there is something to be removed? I don't think anyone is against adding to the database, but removing obviously should be flagged. The voting history does help in that department though.
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Oh, I wasn't referring to you. The few people who just approve/decline anything without checking clearly aren't paying attention, because around 50% of their decisions are incorrect. (Box art, name changes, etc.) Another example was where someone had edited a game title and accidentally pasted in some other text in the title field, and that got approved.

 
I don't think Billytwoshoes can be wrong. I mean, he's got the highest score. :lol:

I'd like to suggest Nintendo eShop, PlayStation Network, and Xbox Live platforms (or whatever their respective names should be), mainly for digital re-releases of past platform games. Though, could lead to a little problem if a title isn't cross buy. Similar to the poorly named Battlefront, it can be a little confusing seeing the same title for multiple gen platforms, especially if it IS the same game. E.g. one might see The Legend of Zelda on Wii U not knowing if it's for the upcoming Wii U title or the original NES entry on VC.

 
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phantomphoenix said:
I don't think Billytwoshoes can be wrong. I mean, he's got the highest score. :lol:

I'd like to suggest Nintendo eShop, PlayStation Network, and Xbox Live platforms (or whatever their respective names should be), mainly for digital re-releases of past platform games. Though, could lead to a little problem if a title isn't cross buy. Similar to the poorly named Battlefront, it can be a little confusing seeing the same title for multiple gen platforms, especially if it IS the same game. E.g. one might see The Legend of Zelda on Wii U not knowing if it's for the upcoming Wii U title or the original NES entry on VC.
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It could get messy if we add those as separate platforms - especially since this generation everything is available both digitally and physically. (For example, does a downloadable version of a full retail release count as a PSN game or not.) I think a new attribute for sub-platform would be a better option, but it needs some thought. Maybe something like a VC toggle on Wii U/Wii games.

There are some new unannounced features rolling out today, once they're live I'll announce them. Some fixes, some new moderation toys. We're also going to add DLC support for games, but it's likely that'll take a bit longer. (It's needed for the new marketplace.)

 
John said:
It could get messy if we add those as separate platforms - especially since this generation everything is available both digitally and physically. (For example, does a downloadable version of a full retail release count as a PSN game or not.) I think a new attribute for sub-platform would be a better option, but it needs some thought. Maybe something like a VC toggle on Wii U/Wii games.
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I had both of those thoughts as well, but my intention was definitely geared more toward classic games, and I can see how it could be messy. If you own LoZ on Wii VC, then you don't necessarily own it on NES, but it also isn't exactly a Wii title. The Wii platform indicates where it was bought/stored/owned. If you own a digital only released game, then the game is released and attributed to its respective platforms AND you own it on the consoles on which you bought/store/own it (e.g. The Witness on PS4).

To do what I want, I think the VC toggle would actually need to go on the original release platform's database page. Hell, maybe even the owned platform's page as you say. It could work similar to a merging tool, but instead would link the games. The original platform could be the main page, while listing the unoriginal platforms as the sub-platforms it's available on. When toggled on, you'd be able to select all platforms it's available on. If someone wants to add the original NES LoZ that they own on Wii U, search for it, don't see it for Wii U, and add a new entry, another user can link them. So, now when a user searches for it, the result could list the original platform followed by a list of other platforms it's available on, e.g. a search for "The Legend of Zelda" would provide a line that might look like this:

The Legend of Zelda NES (3DS, Wii, Wii U)

When a user adds it to their library, they could be prompted to select which actual platform they own it on, and they can select as many as they want.

 
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Each release needs to represent a record in the database. So for The Legend of Zelda, the original NES release is a record, the Wii VC release is a record, and the Wii U VC release is a record. On top of that, we then have a group table for associating these different releases. The system you're describing is kind of what we already have, except we're using a separate group table to unify various releases instead of having one primary record. Just need to add the tools to allow users to manipulate the product groupings, and it should work nicely.
 
Also:
28 Jan 2016 - Community moderation: Fixed janky comment styling.
28 Jan 2016 - Community moderation: Fixed issue where uploading images over 2MB would cause an error.
28 Jan 2016 - Community moderation: Fixed the image crop tool.
 
I agree that the system that's in place right now does group them well, but you don't really know until you click on one of the search results. So I guess what I'm really asking is if there's a way to group them as one, from the search results list. That way, "The Legend of Zelda" --- Wii U (which is actually VC) wouldn't be confused with an anticipated Wii U entry "The Legend of Zelda" --- Wii U. And that's probably why it's good practice just to add the platform to the actual title, when an official title hasn't been announced.

Looking forward to the tools!

 
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I'll look into combining them in search results, but it'll have to wait until we have proper grouping tools available.

 
A small one, but:

29 Jan 2016 - Approve/decline toggles are now the default focus when the page loads (for keyboard moderating).

 
Holy shit! Does being the last to approve an edit give you bonus points? Billytwoshoes is in quite a distant second now. Would explain why some newcomers' scores drastically and disproportionately increase at first and then may level off, since they are the final vote on a lot of pending edits... John... ;)

Also John, don't know if you've seen this, but the last edit (i.e. Rogue Legacy) on the main page has 350 edits! And... it looks like you are working on that because it's currently the last remaining edit on the main page.

[attachment=19869:2016.01.28 comm mod Rogue Legacy edits.png]

 
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phantomphoenix said:
Holy shit! Does being the last to approve an edit give you bonus points? Billytwoshoes is in quite a distant second now. Would explain why some newcomers' scores drastically and disproportionately increase at first and then may level off, since they are the final vote on a lot of pending edits... John... ;)

Also John, don't know if you've seen this, but the last edit (i.e. Rogue Legacy) on the main tab had 350 edits! And... it looks like you are working on that because it's currently the last remaining edit on the main page.

attachicon.gif
2016.01.28 comm mod Rogue Legacy edits.png
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I may throw together a quick script to recalculate all the points, just to be sure there are no bugs in the system causing the totals to be off. The biggest reward you get is when you submit a change and that gets approved, though.

Rogue Legacy should be fixed.

 
On the main page, under the "Moderation Center" area, it still says there are 5 more edits than available though... :whistle2:(

 
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