Game Database / Community Moderation / Product Editing: So many questions... so little answers... now waiting for CAG 4.0...

Noticed something wrong with the default loaded age order under "Your Edits" tab. There are some entries here and there that are out of order. Clicking the age column will correct the order.

[attachment=20044:2016.01.29 your edits age order.png]

 
The biggest reward you get is when you submit a change and that gets approved, though.
Not seeing the reward (bonus points?). I've made nearly all of the edits since the queue was depleted. I believe the last batch of edits had 31 that were finalized and that the highest score increase was 62 (Fatality, litepink, me, htz, and possibly others). I'm assuming the 62 is from getting double points for all of us voting with the majority on all 31 edits. Or, if all 31 edits were mine, does voting on one's own edits not give them points? If so, the people doing the most work are not being rewarded.

 
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Not seeing the reward (bonus points?). I've made nearly all of the edits since the queue was depleted. I believe the last batch of edits had 31 that were finalized and that the highest score increase was 62 (Fatality, litepink, me, htz, and possibly others). I'm assuming the 62 is from getting double points for all of us voting with the majority on all 31 edits. Or, if all 31 edits were mine, does voting on one's own edits not give them points? If so, the people doing the most work are not being rewarded.
Don't worry, we'll definitely be doing a recalculation of points and a check on all the awarding procedures shortly to make sure it's correct.

 
Ok, sounds good. But I just want to note that I'm convinced the final voter gets more points.

One edit has finalized since yesterday's batch and a bunch of us got 2 points, but htz got 12 (the last voter). In yesterday's 31 finalized edits, Kuromimi, who was the last voter on all of them (17xx: 99, 88-86, 83-78, 76-69, 64-52), shot up to a score of 721 (723 after today's single finalized edit). They are a recent contributor/voter and there's no way their score should be that high. Their last noted score was 342+/-, which was before these last final 32 edits. In the time that my score went from 862 to 926, Kuromimi's went from around 342 to 723. So:

721 - 12 (31) = 721 - 372 = 349

 
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Ok, sounds good. But I just want to note that I'm convinced the final voter gets more points.

One edit has finalized since yesterday's batch and a bunch of us got 2 points, but htz got 12 (the last voter). In yesterday's 31 finalized edits, Kuromimi, who was the last voter on all of them (17xx: 99, 88-86, 83-78, 76-69, 64-52), shot up to a score of 721 (723 after today's single finalized edit). They are a recent contributor/voter and there's no way their score should be that high. Their last noted score was 342+/-, which was before these last final 32 edits. In the time that my score went from 862 to 926, Kuromimi's went from around 342 to 723. So:

721 - 12 (31) = 721 - 372 = 349
Yeah, you're right. This has been fixed now, but have yet to do the recalculation for past mod edits.

 
The product and moderation systems now support DLC for games. The main reason for this is to support product searching for the upcoming code marketplace, as such it means that we're considering season passes as DLC (for the moment). I'll make a change soon so that we can separate actual DLC from groups of DLC, like season passes. (At the moment, the rule is if it's something that can be purchased or redeemed as a code, it should be listed.)

 
I'm assuming that means multi platform titles with the same DLC will require their own platform specific DLC database entries. There's got to be an easy way to create them for any and all platforms all at once. If somebody is adding DLC to Fallout 3 (360) and they click on the "DLC +", they should somehow be able to add to PS3 and PC as well, all at the same time. Maybe via check boxes that by default are checked for the selected parent ID and unchecked for the non-parent IDs. Checking all platforms and submitting would add the DLC to their respective platform parent ID and create individual database entries.

Similarly, can something like this be done for adding multi platform titles in general? When adding a product, you could select all applicable platforms. On submission, multiple consecutive parent IDs and product entries would be created for their respective platforms. I often see people adding a multi platform title only for a single platform - probably because that's the platform they own it on and don't care about the other platforms. Hopefully such a system could alleviate that redundancy and more users would be inclined to add it to all applicable platforms. Like with Just Dance 2016, except few probably care about it to begin with. :lol:

Hell, the grouping tools might be able to handle this. Might also be able to make it so that things like tag edits for a title, will be applied to all platforms!

 
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My current avatar is fucking up the top mods layout, probably because it's oblong. :lol:

[attachment=20111:2016.02.02 top mod overlap.png]

After changing it, I'm curious to see how long it takes to reflect in those areas.

 
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Any way to make search results middle/scroll clickable to open in a new tab? Would make it much easier to make multiple edits without having to search for a game again, especially in cases when titles don't get grouped... fucking "Minecraft: _ Edition"...

 
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27 Jan 2016 - Community moderation: Null votes no longer count as a denial.
Can you make it so null votes will load the next edit? litepink's iOS entry for LEGO Star Wars: The Force Awakens is to be deleted. It has tags attributed to it, which a user is forced to vote on to continue voting without having to go to the "Pending" tab. Hard to know which way to vote if the product is to be deleted.

29 Jan 2016 - Approve/decline toggles are now the default focus when the page loads (for keyboard moderating).
Is it possible to make an exception for image edit pages? Most images are too big that you can't confirm the product without having to scroll up or clicking the associated product link.

 
Any way to make search results middle/scroll clickable to open in a new tab? Would make it much easier to make multiple edits without having to search for a game again, especially in cases when titles don't get grouped... fucking "Minecraft: _ Edition"...

 
I'm still having a bit of trouble uploading images that result in a big black box image. I think one cause might be if the original image has transparency. File types might be a problem too. But what's really weird, is that sometimes the cause has something to do with the file name. When I was uploading an image for Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time, I had named the jpg file "mario and luigi partners" and I don't remember a single time that it didn't result in the black box. I tried multiple times - even applied the file name to a different image - and replicated the same results every time. Other combos of title words and even simply capitalizing the M and L allowed it to work properly.

Also, other errors seem to be a result of file names including "&"s and apostrophes.

 
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Just a little note to let you know that I'm still working on changes for moderation, and I'm keeping an eye on this thread - just trying to get another big feature rolled out before I carry on with the smaller fixes.

 
What gives a product its price tracking feature? When there are dupes, usually seems the oldest product ID automatically gets it. But there dupes where neither have it and solo entries that also don't have it, so... I also ask cuz Star Wars Battlefront (2004) (PC) now has the 2015 release's price attributed to it. Probably has to do with the titles being the same and on the same platform.

[attachment=20215:2016.02.07 SW B pc mixed.png]

 
This is mainly for my own record, but it could be a problem when users upload corrected images that keep the same file name as their previous upload. It seems that the file name is more important than the image itself, and if re-uploaded with the same file name, the first upload image will take precedent over any successive ones. It does seem temporary (probably keeps a history and lasts as long as there is an image edit pending for a specific game), but if a user is following up immediately after their previous upload, then it can be a problem.

I uploaded and submitted multiple images of Rock Band 4 (PS4) named as such in order:

1. rock band 4 ps4 (original image reduced to 600 pix wide, no crop)

2. Rock band 4 ps4 (original image reduced to 25% the size, no crop)

3. Rock Band 4 ps4 (original image, 1054x1316)

After having renamed the original 1054x1316 image to one of the previously uploaded images and then uploading it, that respective previous image is the upload I see. To remove any confusion, I then uploaded and submitted the original image of Rock Band 4 (PS4) with file name:

4. metroid fusion (actual image of RB4 PS4, 1054x1316)

I then proceeded to upload an actual image of Metroid Fusion with the same "metroid fusion" file name as the previous Rock Band 4 (PS4) image upload. No longer to my surprise, the actual image that uploaded was that of the original Rock Band 4 (PS4). The submission also reflects that.

I'm assuming there's some sort of a temporary database that links specific file names to specific uploaded/submitted images, per product per user. It was probably why I was having previous trouble with some of the black box uploads. My corrections to them did not seem to reflect upon uploading because the file name was still the same as the black box upload.

 
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While the previous post describes the case where a certain image IS submitted with its associated file name, this post describes what happens if it's NOT submitted.

After some more testing, seems the crop page is affected as well. A temp history of the file name is kept and associated with the first image uploaded with that file name. So, if the first image is NOT submitted, then when another image is uploaded with the first image's file name, the first image will show on the crop page. Then when the second image is submitted, the actual second image is what shows on the edit page.

This means that when I continued to see the black box image after numerous corrected uploads (all the while using the same file name), I was actually just seeing the first image over and over again. Had I submitted the corrected upload while seeing the black box, it's likely the edit page would have shown the corrected image.

 
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1. rock band 4 ps4 (original image reduced to 600 pix wide, no crop)
2. Rock band 4 ps4 (original image reduced to 25% the size, no crop)
3. Rock Band 4 ps4 (original image, 1054x1316)
4. metroid fusion (actual image of RB4 PS4, 1054x1316)
5. metroid fustion (actual image of Metroid Fusion)
All links I had posted previously directed to image edits that were in some form or another an image of Rock Band 4 (PS4). Now, the edit pages for 1, 4, and 5 show images of Metroid Fusion. The edit page for 2 shows the full RB 4 image. As mentioned in my previous post, I had renamed the full 1054x1316 image to that of the previous file names and uploaded. I probably also renamed the actual Metroid Fusion image "rock band 4 ps4" and uploaded it without submitting at some point after the first submission, and is why the first link shows an image of Metroid Fusion. Unless John did something, seems like maybe the last file name and associated image is what matters in the end (after an image edit is approved/denied?).

Also, this 1st image edit (file name "metroid fusion") originally showed [customspoiler="this image: "]
[attachment=20360:metroid fusion bad.jpg]
[/customspoiler]

When trying to change it, this 2nd image edit also showed that image, but the image I had uploaded and submitted (file name also "metroid fusion") [customspoiler="was this one:"]
[attachment=20361:metroid fusion.jpg]
[/customspoiler]

So at first, it seems the first file name and its associated image affected the second submission based on having the same file name. Since then, it seems the oldest history of file name and image association has been cleared, and the most recent file name and associated image retroactively affected all image uploads/submissions with that exact file name. Both of those image edits now show the second image. This 3rd image edit had an altered file name, and therefore should not be affected unless I proceed to upload an alternate image with the same file name.

I'm thinking that since the voting on image edits for Rock Band 4 (PS4) and Metroid Fusion finalized, any history of past file name to image connection is cleared, and any images with the same exact file name per product per user, revert to the most recent uploaded image with that same exact file name.

 
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I don't think the final vote is what does it. Just time, I guess. Tested some Kirby Squeak Squads previously, where the last one has not been finalized yet. 2103 and 2104 have reverted from what they used to be (25% the size, no crop) to full size now.

 
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So... using the info I've learned over the last few posts, I was able to change the image on an already approved image edit! :lol: So far, it hasn't affected the product page.
 
[customspoiler=" Here is a pic if I decide to change it back.']
[attachment=20386:2016.02.10 LoZ MM image edit changed after approval.png]
[/customspoiler]

 
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So... using the info I've learned over the last few posts, I was able to change the image on an already approved image edit! :lol: So far, it hasn't affected the product page.

[customspoiler=" Here is a pic if I decide to change it back.']
[IMG]https://www.cheapassgamer.com/public/style_images/cag3_dark/attachicon.gif[/IMG][URL="https://www.cheapassgamer.com/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=20386"]2016.02.10 LoZ MM image edit changed after approval.png[/URL]
[/customspoiler]
I see nothing wrong with this change

 
It's hard for me to believe so many Pokemon games were missing from the database, with or without the accent. I'm betting many of them are already in the database, but they aren't (easily) searchable. I ended up finding a few dupes via duplicate "Available On" platform entries, which have "Pok�mon" in the title, which itself does not produce appropriate search results. Wouldn't be surprised if other titles are affected as well.

Here's one of the examples:

Pokemon Diamond (DS)
Pok�mon Diamond (DS)
 

 
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It's hard for me to believe so many Pokemon games were missing from the database, with or without the accent. I'm betting many of them are already in the database, but they aren't (easily) searchable. I ended up finding a few dupes via duplicate "Available On" platform entries, which have "Pok�mon" in the title, which itself does not produce appropriate search results. Wouldn't be surprised if other titles are affected as well.

Here's one of the examples:
Pokemon Diamond (DS)
Pok�mon Diamond (DS)
I was going to post about this, like the gamecube games wouldn't even show up, anyway I typed them, even tried not inserting part of the word to see if it was spelled wrong or something. I also found other pokemon games such as pearl, platinum and white not in there which was odd since their respective counterparts were in there. I was very hesitant to add them. The big shocker though was that almost 80% were missing cover art. I found duplicates as well with different names, pokemon yellow for example.

Pokemon Yellow
Pokemon Yellow: Special Pikachu edition

Also some of the Game Boy Color games were just marked as Game boy but thats not that big of a deal. Pokemon puzzle league is listed as a 360 game but it came out on Nintendo 64.

Pokemon Puzzle League
 
The big shocker though was that almost 80% were missing cover art.
That's part of my point. The product IDs for these are relatively new, which could imply they are dupe entries. The already existing original entries (regardless of image) just can't be easily found via search.

All of the ones I did find via the dupe "Available On" platforms have extremely low product IDs:

Pok�mon Dash (DS)

Pok�mon Ranger (DS)

Pok�mon Diamond (DS)

 
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John, for all edits on the "Pending" and "Your Edits" tabs, could you please put a quick link directly to the product ID page, similar to the "i" on the price tracker page?

Also, I've just recently noticed that the actual check mark boxes for tags and such are not actually clickable. Only the surrounding bigger box area is.

 
Updated the OP and wiki post with found unsearchables due to diacritical marks and other symbols that were converted to �.

 
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I've noticed that deleted entries may still retain their old price tracker info. Mad Max (XONE) does not have Best Buy price info, but it's deleted entry seems to. It still appears on the price tracker page with most info blank, but a working link to the sale site.

[attachment=20660:2016.02.24 price tracker w deleted entry.png]

 
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I'm concerned that symbols (e.g. °, ..., --, etc.) that aren't diacritical marks - which likely converted to � on a CAG server/version upgrade - are bound to convert again. It might be best to just avoid special symbols altogether... At least the list I'm putting together could make them easier to find later.

 
Looks like my attempt to correct the � titles is futile. The few approved title changes are still not searchable.

 
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This might of been brought up before, but the game genres when editing / adding new titles to the database need to be reviewed.  They say that depending on the platform not all genres will be represented, but how come "Racing" is not one of genre selections?

I can understand games like GT being "Simulation" more appropriately, and maybe we should just generally throw them into "Action", but there needs to be some different genre tags.

 
Something really needs to be done about the order of search results, cuz there isn't a logical one in place that makes sense to me. Why would Darksiders II CE come after Darksiders on a "darksiders ii" search!?

It's getting pretty frustrating when editing a game for multiple platforms and multiple editions with no order/grouping in the search results, no grouping on the product pages, and not being able to open multiples in a new tab. I'm guessing very few of the Darksiders II games were grouped because of slight differences in titling. If a merge tool can fix that, it can't come soon enough! Also, some standard formatting for Limited, Collector's, GOTYs, etc. editions needs to be decided on. I'm fine with putting the edition type in parentheses or brackets, but the inconsistency is bothersome. This has been a problem for a while, but Darksiders II just about had every problem, and I'm betting it's not the first.

[attachment=20740:2016.02.28 poor search results order.png]

 
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Odd that it's been over a week now, and near all pending edits need just one more vote to get approved...

Seems like only five of us are consistently checking the pending edits, and that's all well and good if all of us vote in one direction (either approve or deny).

The problem is for the few edits where there is some debate, unless people change their votes, they will sit on the queue for some time...

 
I actually think it's probably been that way for a while. There just aren't enough consistent voters or a consensus just can't be reached. Most users are probably completely unaware of the game database and how it works. Some contributors probably just add only what concerns their library and don't come back. Some users may even be driven away because they don't make "good" edits, which are often denied. If it keeps those poor images (poor crop, wrong platform, wrong region, etc.) away, I'm all for it. Just means more voters and quality contributors are needed!

Here are some old edits I came across where the choice should be obvious, yet many votes went the other way and kept them pending. I mean, even Cheapy voted without considering "Is this a good quality product image?" (1039). Cheapy and John voted on an image that did not have an ESRB rating (1022), when an image WITH a rating had since been approved (1176).

https://www.cheapassgamer.com/?app=moderation&module=view&id=1181 (wrong platform image)

https://www.cheapassgamer.com/?app=moderation&module=view&id=1039 (no crop image)

https://www.cheapassgamer.com/?app=moderation&module=view&id=1022 (no rating image, 1176 approved first and later overtaken by 1022)

Maybe for image edits, the current image should be displayed, since it's very likely that the new image is replacing another, possibly better, image. it could be similar to the "current" and "suggested" lines on title edits.

 
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John, don't know if I mentioned it before, but could you please enable the ability to make platform change edits? In the meantime, maybe change this one to N64. Here's my edit to delete it, which maybe shouldn't be since the N64 one still isn't searchable after the � correction.

EDIT: I did suggest check boxes for multi platform titles. If this system was implemented, a simple uncheck of the wrong platform and check of the correct platform could work similar to tags.

 
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John, don't know if I mentioned it before, but could you please enable the ability to make platform change edits? In the meantime, maybe change this one to N64. Here's my edit to delete it, which maybe shouldn't be since the N64 one still isn't searchable after the � correction.

EDIT: I did suggest check boxes for multi platform titles. If this system was implemented, a simple uncheck of the wrong platform and check of the correct platform could work similar to tags.
Thats actually a great idea, would save time when games launch multi platform and help fix games that have been put in under the wrong platform or ones that were being made for a platform as well as others but one version was cancelled. I found a few of those a while back, I believe I put them up for deletion.

Another thing I would love, phantomphoenix has mentioned a while back, would be the option to open games from the search bar in another tab either by right click (open in new tab) or clicking in scroll.

Of course merge tool is still up top, I dont know if anything can be done about the search when the games containing colons dont pop up right away unless you delete the colon from the title, it could also be that it just takes a lot longer to load?
 
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Something else I just learned regarding deletion edits. Looks like you can auto deny / cancel your own product deletion edits by making some other edit to the same product ID. Makes sense since there's no reason someone would make follow up edits to a product they marked for deletion.

Pokemon Puzzle League (360) (deletion, tag)

Pok�mon Crystal (GB) (deletion, tag)

Ninja Five O (GB) (deletion, tag)

 
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Something else I just learned regarding deletion edits. Looks like you can auto deny / cancel your own product deletion edits by making some other edit to the same product ID. Makes sense since there's no reason someone would make follow up edits to a product they marked for deletion.

Pokemon Puzzle League (360) (deletion, tag)

Pok�mon Crystal (GB) (deletion, tag)

Ninja Five O (GB) (deletion, tag)
Yeah, I learned that trick when making image edits, sometimes I miss a watermark here or there, or I didn't like my first crop. Denying your own edit (1st round) and then posting another image for the same product will automatically deny the first image edit.

 
Yeah, I learned that trick when making image edits, sometimes I miss a watermark here or there, or I didn't like my first crop. Denying your own edit (1st round) and then posting another image for the same product will automatically deny the first image edit.
Oh yeah, I already knew it worked for images. :) But you don't even have to deny the previous image edits. All you have to do is submit another image. You can see I did this in this post with three successive edits.

I also know title changes work the same and I'm sure UPC and EAN work the same way. However, I don't think there's a way to cancel a tag edit, or at least haven't figured it out yet, since tags only have two states (basically an on/off toggle that is unchangeable on the editing page) and are independent of each other. But now that I think about it, I wouldn't be surprised if a product type tag edit would cancel a genre tag edit (e.g. a hardware tag edit would cancel all genre tag edits). You can also probably cancel a previous tag by retagging with the same tag, but that's pointless since all you are really doing is refreshing the votes for that edit. The deletion "tag" works similarly to tags, but those edits have another means of being canceled, and the logic behind it makes sense. In the end, you are still putting out an edit that needs to be voted on. It may not even be important which way the votes go, but you do have the power to cancel some of your own edits, so...

I'd like to suggest another means to canceling your own edits, without having to go through the process of making another edit that overrides the previous one. I mean, that canceling method should still be in place, but it shouldn't be the only way to do it, as I'm sure it wasn't intended to be used as an edit canceling mechanism.

 
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Well, it looks like all tag edits, regardless of genre or product type, will auto deny previous tag edits. It also seems that if you do submit a tag edit, then go back and submit another tag edit with multiple tags, all but one will be auto denied.

Shin Megami Tensei meets Fire Emblem (Wii U) (2 tag edits made on single initial tag edit submission, both pending)

Shin Megami Tensei x Fire Emblem (Wii U) (10 tag edits made on single non-initial tag edit submission, all but one pending)

Edits 2016 - 2041:

[attachment=20860:2016.03.07 tag edit denials.png]

 
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I'm adding an option to flag a product for deletion, which fixes people voting on products where the changes are irrelevant due to incorrect platform, or a game that doesn't exist.
If I understand this correctly, all associated product pending edits would be denied or auto removed from the queue upon an approved deletion edit. It seems this also applies to your personal edit history for that specific product. A similar thing kinda affects approved "current/suggested" edits where after approval, the history of the previous info is lost.

It may seem unnecessary, but it'd be nice if approved deleted product edits DID show in your personal edit history and the change info edits showed the old incorrect info. I can't really think of a good reason for either, except for keeping a record of such edits. The change info edits could help on the off chance that someone makes a mistake edit that gets approved.

 
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Holy shit... I don't know how I didn't come across this before, but it seems like NONE of the title changes are fixing searchability issues. I thought the � titles were one thing, but it looks like spaces, letters, accents, etc. changes do not affect their searchability. For games that have had a title change, it seems like the search results are based more on what a game's previous title was and not its current title. Before and after title info is not available (another reason to have that info), but from my edit comments, here are a few that I've found from my edit history:

I should be getting paid for this... :lol:

 
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I'm still not entirely sure how price tracker info is added. I assume it's automatically added based on the title at the time of product submission. If that is the case, then just like the faulty searchability for fixed titles, it probably means it's a search index issue again. If the title is exact (or nearly exact?), it will usually get the info. I've seen Pokemon entries with the info, but it's probably because they were added with the accent and later removed (see Republique). It also seems many are missing certain retailer info and I really can't even start to guess why. Here are some affected recently added products:

Who knows:


Diacritical marks:

  • Republique (PS4) (no Amz even though titles are identical; no BB as listing has accent on "e")

Difference in titles:

Also, it was inevitable... a new Pokken Tournament has been submitted.

 
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