it continues: Manhunt 2 given AO rating in the U.S.

[quote name='PyroGamer']I honestly have no idea what the fuck you are babbling about.[/QUOTE]
That's because you're a consummate idiot-ass, devoid of any sense of logic and cognitive thinking.
 
[quote name='yukine']No one cares about your opinion, CoffeeEdge. I'm probably the only one that reads your posts, and I only do so for hilarity.[/QUOTE]
Uh, what? I've posted fact. You can't have AO-rated games on the consoles. The manufacturers don't allow it. I've provided proof for all 3 systems.

And clearly people are reading my posts, judging by how they're replying to them.

Christ, I seem to be one of the few people in here who seems to understand how this shit works.
 
[quote name='Brak']That's because you're a consummate idiot-ass, devoid of any sense of logic and cognitive thinking.[/QUOTE]
If you honestly believe there is some sort of conspiracy against Take Two, and that Manhunt 2's AO rating has nothing to do with its content, you are officially bat-shit insane.
 
Maybe Rockstar will go the route of Tengen and release unlicensed Manhunt 2. I don't think Sony could stop them for fear of losing GTA.
 
[quote name='PyroGamer']If you honestly believe there is some sort of conspiracy against Take Two, and that Manhunt 2's AO rating has nothing to do with its content, you are officially bat-shit insane.[/QUOTE]
Oh, really? I'm glad you have that much faith in the system.

Let me break down for you, real simple:

You're concerned that the game will get in the hands of minors if it were rated M. As it follows, you're concerned that this game will corrode the minds of children -- that's safe to assume, and a moot point. So let's just go past that one.

Now, that first concern - the concern of the title getting in the hands of minors - doesn't that indirectly say that you think the ratings system is a joke, and does not work at all, as you believe the title will be played by minors?

The very same ratings system that is giving Manhunt 2 a soft-core, indirect consumer ban by giving it an Ao rating? Now, why does that rating garner any validity in your eyes? I thought you were invertedly saying the ratings system was a joke..?

That's the part that you didn't understand me "babbling the fuck on about", or however many classy "fucks" you shoehorned in there, to make your point that much more valid.

As for my paranoia of Rockstar discrimination: I really don't think that's a batshit theory. Look at how much thunder the ESRB has received for not rating titles properly. Not to mention the American Liberal / Thompson thunder.

I think this received a rating before they even play-tested the game.
 
I just want this game to be release in its original form. Censoring is lame. Whether is AO or Mature stupid parents will buy it for their kids regardless.
 
[quote name='PyroGamer']I do find it exceedingly odd that the "analysts" in that Gamestop article seemed to assume that Rockstar would be allowed to release an AO title on the Wii.

I suppose it could be just another example of how analysts are the most fucking retarted people on the planet.[/QUOTE]Or maybe they're in the know compared to the general public, i.e. us.
 
[quote name='CoffeeEdge']I've provided proof for all 3 systems.[/quote]
Where? I just looked through this thread and I haven't found anything beyond the quote from the Nintendo ESRB page. I haven't seen any official Sony or Microsoft policies posted. Forgive me if I missed them, but I didn't see any "proof" at all.
 
[quote name='jmcc']Maybe Rockstar will go the route of Tengen and release unlicensed Manhunt 2. I don't think Sony could stop them for fear of losing GTA.[/QUOTE]
The only way that would be possible would be if they somehow developed the game without using any of Nintendo or Sony's official SDKs or software libraries or hardware documentation. That was a lot easier back in the NES days, yeah, but with the complexities of today's hardware, it's practically impossible.

And, even if they did release the game AO, no retailers would carry it. From a business and common sense perspective, I'm pretty sure they would rather cut the game back to M, and give it a wide release, than starting the game over and somehow magically developing it using no documentation or libraries from Nintendo or Sony whatsoever, and then only being able to sell it from a scant few online retailers.

And again, Sony's policies are the same. They won't allow an AO game.
 
[quote name='evilmax17']Where? I just looked through this thread and I haven't found anything beyond the quote from the Nintendo ESRB page. I haven't seen any official Sony or Microsoft policies posted. Forgive me if I missed them, but I didn't see any "proof" at all.[/QUOTE]
You must have missed the edit:

[quote name='Coffeeedge']And the evidence regarding Microsoft not allowing AO-rated games resides in the Xbox and Xbox 360 itself. Look at the Family Settings, where you can set ESRB ratings the system will be allowed to play. Notice how it DOES NOT include AO, but it does include every other rating. Simple as that. And I can't comment from experiance, but I believe that the PS3 is the exact same.[/quote]

I can't actually quote any policy pages from Microsoft and Sony, but it's been mentioned many times in the press that they don't allow AO-rated games. But the above is evidence enough that they simply don't allow it.
 
[quote name='jmcc']Maybe Rockstar will go the route of Tengen and release unlicensed Manhunt 2. I don't think Sony could stop them for fear of losing GTA.[/quote]I'm not sure how things worked back in the day, but I'm not sure how they could use an SDK to make their game, then violate/terminate the license agreement and release it. Seems like that would be asking for a breach of contract suit.

And as far as the motion controls making this the AO game it is, possible, but the UK agency responsible for the ban says it was the content, not the controls.
 
[quote name='botticus']I'm not sure how things worked back in the day, but I'm not sure how they could use an SDK to make their game, then violate/terminate the license agreement and release it. Seems like that would be asking for a breach of contract suit.[/QUOTE]
Correct. It would be a gross breach of contract, and the publisher would never do something that suicidal.
 
[quote name='CoffeeEdge']Correct. It would be a gross breach of contract, and the publisher would never do something that suicidal.[/QUOTE]
But they have Sony and Microsoft by the cock and balls.

Not saying they're going to do it, but I bet they could get away with it.
 
[quote name='Brak']But they have Sony and Microsoft by the cock and balls.

Not saying they're going to do it, but I bet they could get away with it.[/QUOTE]
Uh, how so? Seriously, I don't get what the hell you just said. It's the other way around. Sony and Microsoft and Nintendo's rock-solid, impossible-to-circumvent licensing policies would appear to be the ones to have Rockstar by the cock and balls.
 
[quote name='CoffeeEdge']Uh, how so? It's the other way around. Sony and Microsoft and Nintendo's rock-solid, impossible-to-circumvent licensing policies would appear to be the ones to have Rockstar by the cock and balls.[/QUOTE]
Grand Theft Auto? If Sony were to threaten Rockstar, Rockstar could threaten to shift all GTA efforts towards Microsoft.

Hypothetically speaking, of course. It will never happen, but it plausible.
 
[quote name='Brak']
This is discrimination against Take-Two/Rockstar.

If the game had nothing to do with murder, and everything to do with sugar and spice, it still would have received an Ao rating, thanks to Thompson's "Muder simulator" dubbing of the first title.

[/quote]

Perhaps, but Rockstar screwed themselves badly witht he Hot Coffee mess. I think it was blown way out of proportion, but they didn't help themselves at all so no ratings group is going to give them the benefit of the doubt.

I still think Rockstar could sell it how they see fit on PC and would do just fine. I would have to see the content of the game before I could truly judge it though, because there have been plenty of games that push the edge but don't get AO. The God of War games probably use sex and violence as much as any console game could, but I don't recall it getting much, if any backlash. Maybe that is because the themes are appropriate within the context of the game and there is substance as well as flash.
 
[quote name='Brak']You're concerned that the game will get in the hands of minors if it were rated M. As it follows, you're concerned that this game will corrode the minds of children -- that's safe to assume, and a moot point. So let's just go past that one.[/quote]I agree it's a moot point, but to make it clear: I make no claims as to whether this game will "corrode the minds of children". The goal of ratings is not to "ensure that the game will not get in the hands of minors", but to ensure that parents and private business are informed of the game's content.

Now, that first concern - the concern of the title getting in the hands of minors - doesn't that indirectly say that you think the ratings system is a joke, and does not work at all, as you believe the title will be played by minors?
No, not at all. Not in any way whatsoever.

If you think that the rating's system is a failure because minors are playing M rated titles, you had better give up right now. The whole purpose of a ratings system is to put the power in the hands of the parents, not the government. That necessarily requires that parents choose to not allow, or (uh-oh, here's a shocker) TO allow, their children to play an M rated title.

The "M" rating means "Mature", not "banned for minors". The M rating does NOT guarantee minors will not play the game, and many parents would gladly allow their children to play M rated games. Content in M rated games is relatively tame to what can be imagined.

The content in Manhunt 2, as it has been described to me, could never be compared to that of, say, Halo 2. The "M" rating, and the content in Manhunt 2, are vastly different beasts.

M rated games "may be suitable for persons of 17", but AO rated games "should only be played by persons 18 and over". There is an obvious difference between these ratings.

M rated games get in the hands of minors far easier than AO rated games. It is very easy for a parent to decide "well, my child is mature enough to play Halo, he's mature enough to play any M rated game." In order to properly classify games, games that are egregiously more violent of filled with more sexual content must have a rating that suits their content.

Now, if the game were banned, like in England, well then yes: the ratings system has failed. But we here in the land of the free do not censor speech. We have a rating to give games like this, and we use it. To take a game that is being widespread banned in Europe (I can guarantee Germany, at least, will ban this title), and complain that our ratings system has failed because the game received an AO rating, is riddiculous.

If anything, our console manufacturers are to blame for refusing to liscence AO titles.

I think this received a rating before they even play-tested the game.
That's riddiculous.THE PUNISHER got an AO rating before being extensively edited, and that game didn't feature nearly as detailed murders, nor were they portrayed quite as sadomaschocistically.



That's the part that you didn't understand me "babbling the fuck on about", or however many classy "fucks" you shoehorned in there, to make your point that much more valid.
Jesus, why can't people just read my posts without complaining about the words I use in delivering them???
 
[quote name='GuilewasNK']Perhaps, but Rockstar screwed themselves badly witht he Hot Coffee mess. I think it was blown way out of proportion, but they didn't help themselves at all so no ratings group is going to give them the benefit of the doubt.

I still think Rockstar could sell it how they see fit on PC and would do just fine. I would have to see the content of the game before I could truly judge it though, because there have been plenty of games that push the edge but don't get AO. The God of War games probably use sex and violence as much as any console game could, but I don't recall it getting much, if any backlash. Maybe that is because the themes are appropriate within the context of the game and there is substance as well as flash.[/QUOTE]
Hot Coffee was a dire mistake... but, yes; I think that was the misstep that their detractors were looking for, all along.
 
[quote name='PyroGamer']If anything, our console manufacturers are to blame for refusing to liscence AO titles.[/QUOTE]
I disagree. The ESRB was playing their cards, knowing that giving it an Ao would be retail homicide for the title.

They did it with Gears of War in Germany.
 
[quote name='Brak']Grand Theft Auto? If Sony were to threaten Rockstar, Rockstar could threaten to shift all GTA efforts towards Microsoft.

Hypothetically speaking, of course. It will never happen, but it plausible.[/QUOTE]
Well yeah, that's pretty damned hypothetical. I was concerned that you were actually presenting it as a possibility, heh. Theoretically possible, but in the real world, impossible. Sony isn't going to change those policies for anyone, and even if they did, there's still the fact that nobody would sell an AO Manhunt 2.
 
[quote name='Brak']They did it with Gears of War in Germany.[/QUOTE]
You're joking, right? Germany is the most fucking anti-violent videogame country in the WORLD. Hell, it's up there in league with Saudi Arabia. Mainstream German politicians want violent videogame developers to serve JAIL TIME.

Germany cannot be used as a comparison to ANYTHING.
 
I can't express in words how disappointed I'll be if I do not own this game in its entirety.

We can all agree that video games are an art, and I don't know about you, but no art should be censored.
[quote name='PyroGamer']You're joking, right? Germany is the most fucking anti-violent videogame country in the WORLD. Hell, it's up there in league with Saudi Arabia. Mainstream German politicians want violent videogame developers to serve JAIL TIME.[/QUOTE]
Joking about what? If I were wrong about something, why would you acknowledge that I was correct a sentence later?

And that which you've detailed in the last sentence, my unfriend, is what is occurring over here if this shit goes on.
 
In a statement on the board's Web site, BBFC director David Cooke said rejecting a work was a very serious action and not taken lightly. He said the board preferred to consider cuts or changes but that was not possible in this case.

"'Manhunt 2' is distinguishable from recent high-end video games by its unremitting bleakness and callousness of tone in an overall game context which constantly encourages visceral killing with exceptionally little alleviation or distancing," he said.
Cuts won't get Manhunt 2 a lowered rating.
 
[quote name='Brak']I can't express in words how disappointed I'll be if I do not own this game in its entirety.

We can all agree that video games are an art, and I don't know about you, but no art should be censored.[/QUOTE]
The AO rating is not censorship, it rather protects art and free-speach.

However, close-minded game companies (nintendo, sony, microsoft) that refuse to liscence AO titles ARE ruining the industry.

Art cannot thrive on a closed platform.

[quote name='Zen Davis']Cuts won't get Manhunt 2 a lowered rating.[/QUOTE]
We're not talking about crazy brits here. I'm sure Manhunt 2 could acheive an M rating with extensive editing. And that's regrettedly what will probably happen.
 
[quote name='dallow']Thrill Kill was never officially released.[/QUOTE]

Which is why I wondered out loud several pages back about when the unaltered form of Manhunt 2 for the PS2 and/or PSP is going to hit the Torrents.

Man did Rockstar ever stir some shit up this time, I bet they're loving this. I would too if I were them.
 
[quote name='Brak']I can't express in words how disappointed I'll be if I do not own this game in its entirety.[/quote]
Well, I guess your disappointment will just have to go untold, because if you play this game on consoles at all, you'll be playing an M-rated version of it. You poor, poor thing, only getting to play M-rated games. Is that just not enough for you?

We can all agree that video games are an art, and I don't know about you, but no art should be censored.
Videogames are also a business, and it's the right and prerogative of the hardware makers to say what can be developed using their toolsets. If can't enjoy an M-rated game, then you'll just have to pray that they release an AO-rated PC version (which would probably end up having to be a digital/internet distribution game).
 
[quote name='CoffeeEdge']You must have missed the edit:
I can't actually quote any policy pages from Microsoft and Sony, but it's been mentioned many times in the press that they don't allow AO-rated games. But the above is evidence enough that they simply don't allow it.[/quote] Anecdotal evidence is hardly evidence enough to prove the theory, but thanks for directing me to your post.

Just for fun, let's take a look at that Nintendo ESRB quote.

*Please note that Nintendo does not sell or license games that carry the ESRB rating "AO" (Adults Only).
Nowhere does it say that this is an official policy. It says that they "do not", it does NOT say that they "will not". A small difference, but an important one.

For example:
-Nintendo does not manufacture automobiles.
-Nintendo does not make videogames licensed by the NFL.
-Nintendo does not sell Super Smash Brothers: Brawl.

Just because they "do not" do something, doesn't mean that they "will not" do something. Again, if the ESRB quote said that this was an official Nintendo policy (which it doesn't), then it would be a different story.

Fun afternoon minutia.
 
[quote name='Zen Davis']Cuts won't get Manhunt 2 a lowered rating.[/QUOTE]
Uh, that dude is talking about the game in the UK. We're not talking about that. Of course cuts can get the game an M rating.

[quote name='PyroGamer']However, close-minded game companies (nintendo, sony, microsoft) that refuse to liscence AO titles ARE ruining the industry.

Art cannot thrive on a closed platform.[/QUOTE]
Oh, please! Not having AO-rated games on consoles is "ruining the industry"? Excuse me? The industry seems to be doing fine without AO rated games (which are almost exclusively porn) on consoles. If you need AO games, play the stupid hentai games on PC.
 
[quote name='PyroGamer']It's a terrible point.

It's not about what acts are socially acceptable, it's about what could be harmful to minors.[/quote]

so mowing down person after person with guns isn't harmful to minors? Hypocrisy at it's finest.
 
[quote name='evilmax17']Anecdotal evidence is hardly evidence enough to prove the theory, but thanks for directing me to your post.[/quote]
It's obvious that they don't intend to have AO-rated games on their systems. It's fucking solid evidence.

[quote name='evilmax17']Nowhere does it say that this is an official policy. It says that they "do not", it does NOT say that they "will not". A small difference, but an important one.

For example:
-Nintendo does not manufacture automobiles.
-Nintendo does not make videogames licensed by the NFL.
-Nintendo does not sell Super Smash Brothers: Brawl.

Just because they "do not" do something, doesn't mean that they "will not" do something. Again, if the ESRB quote said that this was an official Nintendo policy (which it doesn't), then it would be a different story.

Fun afternoon minutia.[/QUOTE]
Dude, you're pathetic, you know that? The way you're grasping at straws, trying to convince me that Nintendo would allow an AO-rated game on Wii because it says "do not" instead of "will not" is really pitiful. It says they don't allow AO-rated games, the official bottom line, simple as that.

And the 360/PS3 evidence (which I just realized also extends to the Wii, which has parental controls) is solid, and you know it.

Obvious and evidence-supported company policies stand for a hell of a lot more than your belief and staunch conviction that somehow, Rockstar is going to release an AO-rated game that no one will sell. Seriously, what's your problem?
 
The best thing that could possibly happen here is that Rockstar cuts its loses, and the game releases as an AO title, Nintendo allowing an exception.

This way the AO rating can finally be a viable way for art that is significantly more violent or sexually-oriented to be classified.

No politician will say an AO rated game, which isn't even SOLD in most stores, is being marketed towards children.

And AO rating could do for games what the NC-17 rating did for film. However much the MPAA may use the NC-17 rating to soft-censor alternative lifestyles (see This Film is Not Yet Rated for more info), without it we'd have full-blown censorship.

Perhaps eventually both film and videogames can reach the accepted status litterature has, and we will no longer need these petty ratings.

[quote name='CoffeeEdge']Oh, please! Not having AO-rated games on consoles is "ruining the industry"? Excuse me? The industry seems to be doing fine without AO rated games (which are almost exclusively porn) on consoles. If you need AO games, play the stupid hentai games on PC.[/QUOTE]Censorship is harmful to art. Maybe not that many titles have had to be edited that you can say its "ruining" the industry, but there have been some. Most notably in my mind Indigo Prophecy (Farenheit).

If the ESRB was allowed to really use the AO rating, AO rated titles could be a viable option for people wishing to express their art freely. Currently there is pretty much no freedom on our closed platforms. But I can already tell you don't really believe videogames can be an art form, so discussing this with you is pointless.
 
[quote name='CoffeeEdge']Well, I guess your disappointment will just have to go untold, because if you play this game on consoles at all, you'll be playing an M-rated version of it. You poor, poor thing, only getting to play M-rated games. Is that just not enough for you?[/QUOTE]
Are you this... delusional? Hitler burned all of the books, and hand-picked reading material for Germany? Was that not good enough for German citizens?

Stretch? Maybe? Censorship? Yep.

That's not good enough for me; It's censored art.
[quote name='PyroGamer']The AO rating is not censorship, it rather protects art and free-speach.[/QUOTE]
It is in this instance. Ao = Unable to be sold.

It's indirect censorship, and its as simple as that.

It hinders art and free speech.
 
[quote name='evilmax17']Just because they "do not" do something, doesn't mean that they "will not" do something. Again, if the ESRB quote said that this was an official Nintendo policy (which it doesn't), then it would be a different story.[/quote]

Well, it is highly unlikely, but anything is possible. The whole Mortal Kombat situation on Genesis and SNES proved that. I would hve never thought MK II owuld be uncensored, but the almighty dollar proved otherwise. The only thing is that Manhunt isn't even close to the profile MK had back in the day so I doubt the Big N will cave.
 
Whatever, I think this is awesome news. Games like Manhunt are disgusting and quite clearly serve no purpose other than sick sadistic murder and I don't think they should be allowed to play by anyone, 6 or 60. At least other violent games (GTA, GOW, etc.) are clearly entertainment/fantasy. Manhunt is trying to be a realistic snuff film, and if that's our idea of fun nowadays, this society is completely fucked.

EDIT:
And don't give that bullshit "censored art" excuse; as a society we SHOULD censor certain things if they provide no actual benefits whatsoever and promote horrible imagery and murder. It's not fucking art, there's no redeeming or thought-provoking values to it at all.
 
[quote name='I AM WILLIAM H. MACY']Whatever, I think this is awesome news. Games like Manhunt are disgusting and quite clearly serve no purpose other than sick sadistic murder and I don't think they should be allowed to play by anyone, 6 or 60. At least other violent games (GTA, GOW, etc.) are clearly entertainment/fantasy. Manhunt is trying to be a realistic snuff film, and if that's our idea of fun nowadays, this society is completely fucked.[/QUOTE]
Translation:

I support the censorship of things that offend me.

Thanks for the input!

Also, since you think you're a movie-goer, keep what you've said in mind when you see your next horror film.
 
[quote name='I AM WILLIAM H. MACY']Whatever, I think this is awesome news. Games like Manhunt are disgusting and quite clearly serve no purpose other than sick sadistic murder and I don't think they should be allowed to play by anyone, 6 or 60. At least other violent games (GTA, GOW, etc.) are clearly entertainment/fantasy. Manhunt is trying to be a realistic snuff film, and if that's our idea of fun nowadays, this society is completely fucked.[/QUOTE]
Entertainment is not synonymous with "fun".

[quote name='Brak']It is in this instance. Ao = Unable to be sold.

It's indirect censorship, and its as simple as that.

It hinders art and free speech.[/QUOTE]
Refusing to liscense AO titles makes them unable to be sold. Nintendo, Microsoft, and Sony, the very same companies that are providing any games in the first place, are the people censoring it.

Ratings may hinder free speech, and we are probably better off without them, but right now videogaming is so threatened by REAL censorship that we can't afford to not have them.

Unfortunately right now our ratings system is hindered by the fact that the AO rating cannot be really used at all, because it's not just about economic difficulty, it's about MS, Ninty and Sony not even ALLOWING such a title to be PLAYABLE.
 
[quote name='Brak']Are you this... delusional? Hitler burned all of the books, and hand-picked reading material for Germany? Was that not good enough for German citizens?

Stretch? Maybe? Censorship? Yep.

That's not good enough for me; It's censored art.[/QUOTE]
Hahaha, dude. It's not censorship, because going in, before they even started actually developing the game, from the instant they got the license to develop the game, Rockstar agreed not to make an AO-rated game. They're the ones that broke the rules. They can make all the AO-rated PC games they want, and sell them online, if it's so important to their art. Call it censorship if you want, but they agreed to it, and I don't think it's so unfair for the console makers to want to control what goes on their systems, and is made with their SDKs. It's their right to control that.

Allow me to make an example. Animals will kill members of their own species to control territory. So, is the law that I have agreed to by being an American citizen censoring my "right" to murder someone if I want their house? I would suppose so, huh? But, hey, by living here, I agree to follow the law or face the consequences. Simple as that. Likewise, if you want to make a game on a console, you have to follow the manufacturer's rules.

Stretch? Maybe. Logical comparison? Yep.
 
[quote name='PyroGamer']Refusing to liscense AO titles makes them unable to be sold. Nintendo, Microsoft, and Sony, the very same companies that are providing any games in the first place, are the people censoring it.[/QUOTE]
It's both parties. One is playing off the others' policies.
 
[quote name='CoffeeEdge']It's obvious that they don't intend to have AO-rated games on their systems. It's fucking solid evidence.

And the 360/PS3 evidence (which I just realized also extends to the Wii, which has parental controls) is solid, and you know it.[/quote]
There are currently no games based off of "I Love Lucy" on any of those systems. Does that mean that there is a company policy prohibiting them?

You don't know official company policy, and your observations don't prove them. You could very well be right, because I don't know what their official company policies are. But you sure haven't proved that you do either.
 
[quote name='I AM WILLIAM H. MACY']Whatever, I think this is awesome news. Games like Manhunt are disgusting and quite clearly serve no purpose other than sick sadistic murder and I don't think they should be allowed to play by anyone, 6 or 60. At least other violent games (GTA, GOW, etc.) are clearly entertainment/fantasy. Manhunt is trying to be a realistic snuff film, and if that's our idea of fun nowadays, this society is completely fucked.[/quote]

Manhunt isn't for me at all, but then again I read Battle Royale (manga) which, if you look it up, is the most violent, graphic thing I have ever read by far and I thoroughly enjoy the story and drama and find it compelling. The AO Manhunt 2 got may be justified, and I understand the interactive element makes a difference, but in no way am I going to say a work of fiction should be banned entirely. I don't care how "realistic" it is, it isn't real. I wouldn't want anyone to say that about Battle Royale so why should I say that about something someone else likes.
 
[quote name='GuilewasNK']Well, it is highly unlikely, but anything is possible. The whole Mortal Kombat situation on Genesis and SNES proved that. I would hve never thought MK II owuld be uncensored, but the almighty dollar proved otherwise. The only thing is that Manhunt isn't even close to the profile MK had back in the day so I doubt the Big N will cave.[/quote]
Manhunt 2 isn't really that big of a game, and Nintendo doesn't really stand to gain much from it.

GTA, however, is a pretty big deal, and that's what Nintendo is after. Nintendo has been going out of their way to rebuild all of those third-party bridges that they've burned in the past, and they've only recently had success in doing so. Their relationship with Take-Two and Rockstar is what's important, and depending on how they act (if they need to at all), they could risk violating third parties all over again.

Manhunt 2 isn't the issue for Nintendo. It all boils down to their relationship with third parties, and they're very mindful of that this generation.
 
[quote name='GuilewasNK']Manhunt isn't for me at all, but then again I read Battle Royale (manga) which, if you look it up, is the most violent, graphic thing I have ever read by far and I thoroughly enjoy the story and drama and find it compelling. The AO Manhunt 2 got may be justified, and I understand the interactive element makes a difference, but in no way am I going to say a work of fiction should be banned entirely. I don't care how "realistic" it is, it isn't real. I wouldn't want anyone to say that about Battle Royale so why should I say that about something someone else likes.[/quote] I've seen Battle Royale also and loved it, but that movie also essentially made the same point I made, i.e. violence is senseless and depraved and increasingly more prevalent in culture.

And if anyone actually enjoys horrible things like this game, really, are those our most valued members of society? Are they that important?

Also, I've written papers of censorship many times in the past; it's an issue I feel strongly about, that real art, that has something to say, has a piece of the artist in it, should not be censored, no matter how strong. If someone made Manhunt 2 with the intent of showing the depravity of our culture (and made it at least somewhat clear of that intent), I would not be against it. But the current game as it is is a horrible detriment to our society and another step into our downfall, and it is in cases like these in which censorship I think helps.
 
[quote name='CoffeeEdge']Hahaha, dude. It's not censorship, because going in, before they even started actually developing the game, from the instant they got the license to develop the game, Rockstar agreed not to make an AO-rated game. They're the ones that broke the rules. They can make all the AO-rated PC games they want, and sell them online, if it's so important to their art. Call it censorship if you want, but they agreed to it, and I don't think it's so unfair for the console makers to want to control what goes on their systems, and is made with their SDKs. It's their right to control that.[/QUOTE]
Firstly: How do you know Rockstar intentional broke their agreement (which I'm unaware of; source, please) to develop a game that wouldn't be, in the end, given an Adults Only rating?

Secondly, and this is my opinion (which I've mentioned a few times): I believe that this game, no matter what, would have received an Ao rating.

The Ao is a proverbial "cock block". Either they appropriate the title, for a lower rating, or it doesn't get sold in stores. Both of those options, in their own way, are censorship, no?
[quote name='I AM WILLIAM H. MACY']And if anyone actually enjoys horrible things like this game, really, are those our most valued members of society? Are they that important?[/QUOTE]
Your credibility in this argument drops further.
 
[quote name='Halo05']Battle Royale was the shit.

Although I just saw the movie, didn't read the book.[/quote]

The manga is gruesome, but I can't put it down, and I usually can't stand hyper-violent stuff.
 
[quote name='evilmax17']There are currently no games based off of "I Love Lucy" on any of those systems. Does that mean that there is a company policy prohibiting them?

You don't know official company policy, and your observations don't prove them. You could very well be right, because I don't know what their official company policies are. But you sure haven't proved that you do either.[/QUOTE]
The lack of something does not prove it's impossibility to exist, yeah. But that isn't enough evidence to mean it's possible, either.

All three systems have evidence showing that AO-games are not in the cards, evidenced by AO not appearing in the parental controls. That's solid evidence.

Not to mentio---you know what? fuck this. There's just no convincing you. I've given you the official company line from Nintendo, and it's not good enough for you. I've given you solid evidence for all three systems, and you shrug it off by making some bizarre comparison involving I Love Lucy. You're fucking convinced that the console makers will allow AO games, and there's no changing your stubborn, stupid mind. I'm not wasting any more time.
 
[quote name='Brak']
Stretch? Maybe? Censorship? Yep.

That's not good enough for me; It's censored art.

It is in this instance. Ao = Unable to be sold.

It's indirect censorship, and its as simple as that.

It hinders art and free speech. [/QUOTE]

Please. This is not some major blow to free speech. An AO designation is not censorship. It's simply an assessment of the content of the game. The fact that an AO label may harm distribution and sales of the game is immaterial to how the ESRB should do their job. Frankly, I think the AO label isn't used enough; perhaps if it were, it may carry less of a stigma and this wouldn't be as much of an issue. Don't be mad at the ESRB, be mad at the retailers that won't distribute it.
 
[quote name='dopa345']Please. This is not some major blow to free speech. An AO designation is not censorship. It's simply an assessment of the content of the game. [/quote]

At the very least, people are talking about Manhunt that may not have given a crap about it beforehand.
 
[quote name='Brak']Firstly: How do you know Rockstar intentional broke their agreement (which I'm unaware of; source, please) to develop a game that wouldn't be, in the end, given an Adults Only rating?[/QUOTE]
My bad, I worded that wrong. They can develop whatever the fuck they want, I suppose. They just can't publish it.

And the agreement they signed was the software license from Nintendo, which, of course, includes the company policy against AO-rated games, mentioned on their website. It wasn't a special agreement for Rockstar. It's part of the standard software development license from the console makers.
 
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