Jake "The Snake" Roberts wrestling topic

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[quote name='Genocidal']Can we just end the brand extension? There's been so much crossover lately that it's more or less pointless anyways.[/QUOTE]

Well, seeing as how it's completely uneventful that RVD is on Raw (so much so that the announcer didn't even mention that he was from another "brand"), perhaps you have a point. However, there tends to be a lot of crossover prior to Wrestlemania.

The unexplained changes (Shannon Moore to SD, Scotty 2 Hotty to Raw then SD a week later, surely others?) are inexcusable, and make for a wholly unbelievable product. Worse yet, the "WWE match style" so pervades each of the three shows that there really has never been a "brand split." The only time a person can say "this show is good and this show sucks" happens for brief periods of time, when the wrestling matches on one show are notably better than usual (SD currently, and SD back when they had all those great tag teams, like Los Guerreros, Edge/Mysterio, and WGTT, with Benoit and someone thrown in there as well).

I find it absolutely *stunning* to not hear Lawler going out of his way to trash ECW at every given opportunity - he hasn't done it once tonight. Seeing as how he shot on ECW every chance he got (and some he didn't get) from 1997 on shows a pretty remarkable change in what he's told on the headset. It's too obvious - why dampen interbrand feuding?
 
[quote name='2Fast']Horseshit. What a waste.[/QUOTE]

Come on? Are you really that surprised? I can guarantee you that you'll be able to count the number of matches on one hand that RVD wins between now and the end of his contract.
 
[quote name='RedvsBlue']Come on? Are you really that surprised? I can guarantee you that you'll be able to count the number of matches on one hand that RVD wins between now and the end of his contract.[/quote]

I thought they'd at least get something out of him at Wrestlemania, and then start to really really bury him. I also think it's a waste that Edge is in the MitB match, he should be doing something else.
 
that was a good match. up until the (inevitable) part where they fucked over rvd. it kills his matches knowing he's not likely to win at all anymore.
 
[quote name='RedvsBlue']Come on? Are you really that surprised? I can guarantee you that you'll be able to count the number of matches on one hand that RVD wins between now and the end of his contract.[/QUOTE]

Indeed. Some of you are assuming that (1) Edge won't win MITB3 (and, say, go after Undertaker) and that (2) Edge's WM win streak actually means something. It doesn't.

RVD loses? When Lance Cade squashes him, I'll be upset. In the meantime, it's nothing you didn't expect, and it's gonna continue for a long time. We're six weeks out of Wrestlemania, and RVD's contract expires after Summerslam. Calm down and find acceptance in your life. Besides, it's wrestling, what does it matter who wins and loses on tv?

Anyone know the dirt on Melina? I keep seeing dirt sheets alluding to the fact that she's universally reviled backstage; I don't know the half of it, but I know her onscreen character is great (even if the wrestling leaves something to be desired, she looks like Frank fuckin' Gotch out there compared to the rest of the women).
 
Ok didn't see No Way Out. Opinions? Anything cool happen?

Also missed the first hour of RAW... got to see RVD/Edge, thought it was decent. Opinions? Anything cool happen?
 
[quote name='mykevermin']RVD loses? When Lance Cade squashes him, I'll be upset. In the meantime, it's nothing you didn't expect, and it's gonna continue for a long time. We're six weeks out of Wrestlemania, and RVD's contract expires after Summerslam. Calm down and find acceptance in your life. Besides, it's wrestling, what does it matter who wins and loses on tv?[/quote]

It makes it more fun to root for someone you want to see win, or for a match you'd rather see. Should I have expected it? Yeah, but then again I don't really get all consumed by the internet rumors; yet I should be the one to calm down and find acceptance in my life, because I posted four words regarding a match:roll:
 
[quote name='Demolition Man']
Two title changes tonight. Someone care to explain to me why the sudden title changes before Mania?[/quote]

Russo's back?

As for Edge; i hope he doesnt win the MitB match. Lord knows we have seen enough of Cena vs. Edge; Edge vs. HBK doesnt sound any better.
 
Why is it that we can't get a decent DX DVD from the Attitude Era DX? This one that comes out now is focusing on the reformation and the older DX one focuses more on their early days. Where's the in-between time?
 
[quote name='RedvsBlue']Why is it that we can't get a decent DX DVD from the Attitude Era DX? This one that comes out now is focusing on the reformation and the older DX one focuses more on their early days. Where's the in-between time?[/quote]

highly unlikely they'd put out a dvd highlighting a bunch of wrestlers now in competing federations.
 
[quote name='Shmitty']highly unlikely they'd put out a dvd highlighting a bunch of wrestlers now in competing federations.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, its unfortunate but true.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']I never met anyone who said that who has any real experience in dealing with depression or have had a suicide occur close to them. That's just the cliche' callous asshole thing to say.[/quote]

QFT, it's a whole different story when it happens to someone close to you.
 
I actually clapped, not sure why. Perfect's a fantastic choice, I guess I was just releaved they didn't go with Bastion Booger or Kurrgan or someone.
 
Is Cena's movie really the number one DVD? Must have been a thin week. I guess I can't say much, I bought See No Evil, although that was mostly because a Kane commentary sold me.

Umaga being Vince's guy makes it seem a lot more like Lashley is Trump's guy. fuck.

My guess for who is in MITB:

Edge
Orton
Punk
Burke (or maybe Thorn)
Finlay
Benoit

I originally figured Umaga in there (with him winning), but the hair-vs-hair switcharoo screwed that up. Now that Edge has won his match I'll assume Orton is in there as well. I'll take Orton winning the match with Edge only kinda-sorta losing his "Wrestlemania streak." I know some people would bitch about Edge's streak getting broken or whatever, but it's not like he'll have as long a career as Undertaker to match/surpass it anyway. This guy has already had to take 2 or 3 long sabbaticals due to injury, it's only a matter of time before those countless TLC matches catch up to him. Undertaker has lasted this long because in the first several years of his career his gimmick allowed him to work a fairly slow, risk-free style....and even with that, 'Taker's looking at some fake hips and probably a knee when it's all over.

Why did they let a dude win the women's title?

Remember when The Highlanders were going to carry the tag division? I'm telling you, if they book Khali as a two-match-a-year unstoppable foreign babyface in the style of Andre the Giant, he'd be worth so much more to them. Not too subtle burial of the Highlanders there - "I WANT BETTAH COMPESISHION!"...dude, you just beat two guys at once.

It's kind of strange they didn't somehow at least make a subtle reference to Hennig being dead, unless I missed it. Some non-hardcores are probably thinking he's going to show up now. Hennig is easily in my top 15-20 WWF/E guys of all time though, so any chance they have to play his stuff on the air is fine with me.

Biggest laugh of the night - that chick in the sparkly dress going nuts for Cena, while some guy dressed like the Undertaker stands directly behind her expressionless.

The one thing that I hate about the Raws/Smackdowns around Wrestlemania is the results of matches are all really predictable (moreso than usual anyway), but the buildup for the main events has been better than average, so it's forgivable.

Oh for christsake...
[quote name='mykevermin']A good companion of the overgeneralizations you make. At least pretend like you have a sliver of compassion for a moment.[/QUOTE]

You tried to make a point by starting with "I've never met anyone..." as if that's indicative of anything. "I've never met anyone" works when it ends with "who has masturbated on an airplane" or "who has kicked Donald Gibb's ass" but using it to try to prove a point about the personality of someone you don't even remotely know is pretty hollow and presumptuous.

I do feel bad for the guy's family and especially his friends that found him. I don't think my compassion would do him that much good right now anyway, but I can pretend if it'll placate your little illusion of compassion and decency. On the board where you repeatedly wish death upon Bob Holly.
 
[quote name='RedvsBlue']Yeah, its unfortunate but true.[/QUOTE]

The old DX video is available on DVD via Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/WWE-D-Generat...ef=pd_bbs_3/002-6884933-8167225?ie=UTF8&s=dvd

It's "WWE sanitzed," just to be clear, and even edits out the nudity/language that the VHS did not. OTOH, it does have a second disc of "classic" DX matches. Nothing from the midlife crisis DX of last year.

And great on Curt Hennig. Man, those video segments of his were just...well, you know.








Perfect.

[quote name='KaneRobot']On the board where you repeatedly wish death upon Bob Holly.[/QUOTE]


touche! :lol: Nevertheless, I stand by my point that anyone willing to make a blanket claim like "suicide is the coward's way out" has never dealt with anyone that is clinically depressed, and fails to grasp the sort of mindset you deal with in those situations. Nevertheless, that's the last I'll say on it. Last word's yours if you want it.
 
FOUR HORSEMEN DVD MATCH LIST:

[quote name='Observer']Arn Anderson & Tully Blanchard & Ric Flair vs. Pez Whatley & Italian Stallion & Rocky King 6/22/85
Ric Flair vs. Ricky Morton cage match from Charlotte on 7/5/86.
Dusty Rhodes vs. Tully Blanchard First Blood match Starrcade 86.
Four Horseman vs. Dusty Rhodes & Steve Williams & Lex Luger & Nikita Koloff & Paul Ellering 7/16/88 in a War Games match
Arn Anderson & Tully Blanchard vs. Sting & Nikita Koloff 7/16/88
Arn Anderson & Tully Blanchard vs. Barry Windham & Lex Luger 3/27/88 Clash of Champions
Arn Anderson vs. Ric Flair 9/17/95 Fall Brawl[/quote]

Sigh.

That's a good set, and there are a few gems in there that are not "easy to find," but there is so, SO much more that needs to be put in there. Why the hell can't they make it 3 discs? I'm hoping this just means they'll do another one later on, but I'm not getting my hopes up.
 
Easily the worst Raw all year.

Crappy matches, crappy storylines, and 20 minutes of Vince McMahon dick waving to open the show, I'm seriously contemplating ebay-ing my WM tickets.

RVD's done, done and done. Don't hold too tightly to the illusion that ANYONE from ECW is going to be in that MITB 3 match. If anyone from ECW has a match at WM, outside Lashley beating someone up, it'll be the new breed of ECW (Elijah, Striker, Thorn and Monty) vs old school ECW (RVD, Dreamer, Sandman and Sabu). The new breed will go over, I guarantee it.

Edge in the MITB 3 match makes little to no sense, he's already had unsuccessful matches with Cena. So, unless WWE is planning to move Cena out of the title picture and someone else in there with Edge, I don't like where they're going with this. I expect Orton to join Edge as he has nothing else to do. Toss Jeff Hardy in there because he's in most ladder matches, as well as 3 chumps from SD. Probably doesn't matter who, since Edge will win the MITB match to keep his WM streak in tact, and then possibly lose the MITB shot at Backlash in a match with Randy Orton. Either way, I am not amused.

Meanwhile the I/C title will go un-defended yet again. What really pisses me off is WM3 featured arguably the best match in WM history, in Detroit and for the I/C title. Now we get Umaga. Why can't he get injured? Doesn't Vince remember this idiot was Jamal? I wanted to see a great I/C title match. Maybe Jeff Hardy vs Edge or something. Maybe that doesn't make the most sense, but neither does Umaga sliding down the card after feuding with Cena. You could have even had Ricky Steamboat ref the match. WWE has no vision.

Instead we get Umaga taking the title in a match in which he sells nothing, and buries Jeff Hardy. What is the logic there? I wish Trump picked Rosey to face Umaga instead of Mick Foley, at least that'd be somewhat comical.

Then we've got the WWE hot-shotting the women's title over to transitional champion Melina, so she can drop it to Ashley at WM. I'm sure that'll be a 5-star classic.

The Cena/Orton match was fairly dull and predictable. I'm glad they didn't go ahead and make this the main event at WM23, not that HBK/Cena is much better.

The only bright side to all of Raw was the choice to induct Mr. Perfect into the Hall of Fame. This brings me back to Ricky Steamboat, why isn't he in yet?

Six weeks to go? I'd say I'm 75/25 in favor of still going to WM at this point as opposed to putting my tickets on ebay. That's just not how it should be.
 
[quote name='RawisJericho']Mr. Perfect in the Hall of Fame is awesome. Rick Rude needs to be the next inductee.[/quote]

Definitely, although I'd prefer they kept the number of deceased inductees to 1 per year, 2 tops. I think Steamboat needs to go in now. Mr. T as the celebrity induction this year would be comical. He did headline WM1 afterall. Then the Wild Samoans are rumored, as are Jerry Lawler and Jim Ross. I wonder if Owen Hart will ever be an inductee.
 
[quote name='Shmitty']that was a good match. up until the (inevitable) part where they fucked over rvd. it kills his matches knowing he's not likely to win at all anymore.[/QUOTE]
Yep.

Not to mention that all of his matches in the WWE (even when they were "good") pale like sun dried dog shit in comparison to his matches in ECW.

I tell ya: WWE doesn't know how to handle talent from other organizations, because they're terrified of change EDIT -- because they're afraid of something out-shining their product.
 
Do you guys really think CM Punk will get in there? After jobbing to Matt Striker, Bob Holly and Kevin Thorn? I just don't see it, I think his ego ended his career with WWE before it really took off.

I look at ECW as the last straw, the proverbial thin ice, guys don't go to ECW because Vince has big plans for them, they go there to be forgotten about and then released.

With Lashley being the only exception to this, as Vince loves his men all roided up.
 
I really dug Raw tonight - it wasn't a blow-away show, but it was full of fun stuff like Grisham being bitch-slapped, Melina and Mickie slaughtering each other, Khali destroying jobbers, HBK constantly threatening to kick the shit out of Cena, and Vince making Umaga back into a major threat on TV. According to Highspots, the Horsemen set is 3 discs, although that match listing looks very lean for a 3 disc set.

Now for a TON of matches -
Angle and Yuji Nagata vs. Giant Bernard and Tomko (Angle's New Japan debut) - http://www.megaupload.com/?d=XGI4SM3O

Mike Awesome vs. Masato Tanaka at MLW Revolutions -
http://www.sendspace.com/file/1hgmp6

The Gladiator vs. Masato Tanaka in FMW, 9/28/97 -
http://www.sendspace.com/file/omfuec

Mike Awesome vs. Masato Tanaka at Zero One's Manifesto 1 show -
http://www.sendspace.com/file/uhnyng

Kenta Kobashi vs. The Gladiator - All Japan 9/4/99 -
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=YCFF7STT

Mike Awesome vs. Samoa Joe in MLW -
http://www.sendspace.com/file/e15aqw

The Gladiator vs. Hayabusa in FMW, 7/30/95 -
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=9VS8V085

Mike Awesome vs. Hayabusa in FMW, 9/26/95 -
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=1BN6Z2PE
 
[quote name='Zenithian Legend']Definitely, although I'd prefer they kept the number of deceased inductees to 1 per year, 2 tops. I think Steamboat needs to go in now. Mr. T as the celebrity induction this year would be comical. He did headline WM1 afterall. Then the Wild Samoans are rumored, as are Jerry Lawler and Jim Ross. I wonder if Owen Hart will ever be an inductee.[/quote]

Owen needs to be in the Hall of Fame, but the last I heard Martha didn't want anything to do with the WWE so it doesn't look good. I hope to eventually see Owen in a WWE game as a legend sometime soon as well.
 
Another interview with the real "Super Crazy" of professional wrestling:

Live Audio Wrestlinghttp://www.prowrestling.com/article/news/3507# recently interviewed Kurt Angle, here are the highlights:

- He said in WWEhttp://www.prowrestling.com/article/news/3507#, he was on the road for about 300 days per year. He wanted to either reduce his schedule and work part time or quit.

- Angle said he called for the meeting with Vince McMahon. He said he was tired of working hurt.

- He said he showed Vince his lower body which had black and blue marks from hip to hip. According to Angle, Vince said, “I guess you won’t be wrestling in the triple threat ladder match tonight.”

- When Angle wanted the meeting, Vince kept avoiding him.

- Angle felt trapped by his contract, and told Vince that he felt like he was going to kill himself. He said Vince threw the $30 million MMAhttp://www.prowrestling.com/article/news/3507# contract offer back in his face, and released him. He feels Vince saw liability, and decided to grant his release.

- Angle said he and John Cena http://www.prowrestling.com/article/news/3507#were the most productive wrestlershttp://www.prowrestling.com/article/news/3507# in WWE.

- Angle wanted to just do television and PPVs in WWE, which of course Vince didn’t want any part of.

- Vince told Angle to take six months off, and come back re-sign with him, and Angle agreed. Angle said his plan was to jump to TNA.

- “Vince Russo is the best writer in wrestling,” said Angle.

- Angle said he isn’t involved in creative, but does offer his opinions as he feels necessary. He said if they wanted him to be apart of creative, he would do it.

- He said TNA is looking to get a two hour time slot by year’s end. He said a one hour television show is really 42 minutes.

- Angle said TNA has talents they haven’t even introduced yet that are better than most WWE’s main eventers, and are holding off until they get the extra TV time.

- He feels Christian never got a chance in WWE because of the perceived lack of size. He feels Christian is as good if not better than Edge. Angle said WWE could have been made money with Christian.

- He said Cena is a very hard worker, but not a very good wrestler.

- “I think Batista is horrible,” said Angle. He said Batista is a product of Vince’s fetish with big guys.

- He said he would rather have Samoa Joe over Cena or Batista.
Click to expand...

He's clearly nuts, but I have to agree with his comments on Batista.
 
[quote name='Zenithian Legend']Another interview with the real "Super Crazy" of professional wrestling:



He's clearly nuts, but I have to agree with his comments on Batista.[/quote]

I pretty much agree with everything he said... Cena is surely great, but Christian is just a tad better me thinks. Maybe I just have a preference for heels.
 
[quote name='Zenithian Legend']Do you guys really think CM Punk will get in there? After jobbing to Matt Striker, Bob Holly and Kevin Thorn? I just don't see it, I think his ego ended his career with WWE before it really took off.

I look at ECW as the last straw, the proverbial thin ice, guys don't go to ECW because Vince has big plans for them, they go there to be forgotten about and then released.

With Lashley being the only exception to this, as Vince loves his men all roided up.[/QUOTE]

:lol: Not only are we all so jaded we don't think Punk will make 'Mania, we'll be *infuriated* when he doesn't!

See, we all just have this damnfool idea that, in the timespan of one week, WWE will begin booking like a promotion that (1) isn't catering to the lowest common denominator and (2) allows actual wrestling matches to occur. Even better, those wrestling matches will be composed of and reflect individual wrestling skill, rather than preferential treatment based on the size of one's pectoral muscles.

It's a damnfool belief rooted in nothing resembling reality. Vince McMahon has *never* cared about letting good wrestlers perform good wrestling. I have a vague sense of sympathy for the way he books his shows - so the fan isn't burned out by the main event - and he and his tend to book a show as "a show," and carefully control matches so they don't outshine the main event, unintentionally get guys over, or wear out the crowd. He doesn't always succeed in that (I get worn out just typing Holly's name), but I can understand the philosophy behind it. The risks it comes with are that it ruins the spontaneity of the product. The example I use again and again is that Stone Cold Steve Austin would have *never* happened if "The Ringmaster" was brought up in the current WWE. His promos would have been scripted, his matches reduced to three minutes, and any attempt at nuancing the character at all would be quashed.

It's completely STUPID to think that they have structured their product such that the organic evolution of one of the most popular wrestlers of all time couldn't happen again. But they have done it that way.

Look. On the plus side, you'll see Punk back in ROH before Christmas. On the bad well...is there a bad side? I don't know the guy personally, so his income doesn't mean anything to me. Hoping the WWE will change is a fool's errand.
 
[quote name='Zenithian Legend']He's clearly nuts, but I have to agree with his comments on Batista.[/QUOTE]

How is he clearly nuts? Seems pretty straightforward to me.

I don't agree about Russo, but that's, like ahmed said, a byproduct of Kip James' stupidity and arrogance. Of course, it would be more politic to just avoid Russo as a topic of discussion (so you don't have to lie and call him a great writer).
 
Re: selling Wrestlemania tickets - history has generally proven the buildup to the show is rarely indicative of how good the show itself will be. I wouldn't bail out on going just because you don't like the Vince angle or whatever. Of course, they could put on Vince vs. Aurora Rose Levesque in a peek-a-boo contest and I'd still go since it's Wrestlemania, which is almost never anywhere near here.

Article on Awesome, mostly posted because they have a picture of him from his real estate job. I can envision sitting across a desk from him thinking "man, I think I know that guy....oh, he's Jeff Gaylord!"

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Wrestling/2007/02/19/3645984.html
 
[quote name='KaneRobot']Re: selling Wrestlemania tickets - history has generally proven the buildup to the show is rarely indicative of how good the show itself will be.[/QUOTE]

WMIII, V and VI had some of the best buildup I can recall, and were the three best Wrestlemanias, IMO. The same can be said of 2000 (if we can look back with proper hindsight to a time when we weren't yet sick of McMahonamania) and X-Seven.

The buildup to Wrestlemania is always refreshing, if only because they frequently give the show almost 2 months of buildup, starting with the main event. Sure, that's shorter than in the past (when you saw the makings of the "Mega-Powers Explode" main event in December 1988), but it's vastly more than what we're used to in this day and age (three weeks b/w PPVs, with all but 2-3 matches announced on the program right before the show).

It's also due to characters, IMO. I wanted to see Hogan/Warrior, Hogan/Savage, and Hogan/Andre. Cena/HBK? Well, I'm a bit more interested than Cena/Edge, Cena/Orton, but this is not a "Wrestlemania" match, IMO. I don't think this one will end up being like WMIX or XI, but I'll be damned if we get anything memorable out of it. I'm sure you'll have fun, but I expect this one to be devoid of, shall we say, "Wrestlemania moments."

This is the third straight WM main event that Cena's been in. I can't believe that.
 
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