JESUS is Overrated

[quote name='Wshakspear']
So what/who created whom/whatever that created this current universe?[/quote]

I don't know YET. That's what scientists will say, and religious folks generally won't. Religious people will make up a story to describe it and then defend this to the death.
 
For being a thread about how overrated Jesus is, I've heard very little arguements against the man himself.

First off, the OP is adressing the issue of religion in general, not Jesus, and though He is an integral part of some religions He is not the religion itself.

I dunno about the rest of you, but I'd say a man that gave up his life so that people everywhere could be saved from that place of eternal torment, you know hell, deserves a little respect, and that he is not at all over-rated but under-rated. How often do any of you hear about Jesus in a non-religious, non-church, enviornment? I feel that a little more respect and uh "rating" should be given, not taken away. And don't give me that Christmas crap, it may have started out as something respectful, but we all know its just a money maker nowadays.

I know where I stand, your turn :D
 
[quote name='rockhero'][quote name='Wshakspear']
So what/who created whom/whatever that created this current universe?[/quote]

I don't know. That's what scientists WILL say, and religious folks generally won't.[/quote]

I created it you motherfucking heathens! I humped the sumbitch into existence, so Worship ME!
 
[quote name='The Successful Dropout']whats going on? i stopped reading the OP half through because i found jesus






seriously, i dont get religion at all....IMO, religion is one of the world's biggest problems, if not the biggest....i live open-minded and refuse to be narrow-minded such as the religious....that said, i have nothing against any one who is religious...just dont preach that crap over here or i'll make you look and feel stupid by breaking down common sense to you[/quote]

here here great comment

I still say religion is for people who are afraid to die .
 
Reality's Fringe][quote name='rockhero'][quote name='Wshakspear'] So what/who created whom/whatever that created this current universe?[/quote] I don't know. That's what scientists WILL say said:
I created it you motherfucking heathens! I humped the sumbitch into existence, so Worship ME!
Click to expand...

:notworth: It's true to! I saw Mr. T's gold chains when he crapped us out. :wink:
 
[quote name='crystalklear64']For being a thread about how overrated Jesus is, I've heard very little arguements against the man himself.

First off, the OP is adressing the issue of religion in general, not Jesus, and though He is an integral part of some religions He is not the religion itself.

I dunno about the rest of you, but I'd say a man that gave up his life so that people everywhere could be saved from that place of eternal torment, you know hell, deserves a little respect, and that he is not at all over-rated but under-rated. How often do any of you hear about Jesus in a non-religious, non-church, enviornment? I feel that a little more respect and uh "rating" should be given, not taken away. And don't give me that Christmas crap, it may have started out as something respectful, but we all know its just a money maker nowadays.

I know where I stand, your turn :D[/quote]

We first have to believe that he was someone to actually care about, let alone somebody that had the power to free us from sin...until we jerked off for the first time.
 
[quote name='The Successful Dropout'][quote name='Dr Mario Kart']
burgerking.jpg


I've been waiting to use this for a long time. I'm glad you gave me the opportunity.[/quote]

is that a burger king crown?[/quote]
that was that very strange burger king commercial , funny as hell but very disturbing
 
The problem people have with religion does not seem to be from the religion itself, but instead from the people that claim to be apart of it. That being said, I am a Christian and believe Jesus as the messiah sent to the Jewish people, but in believing that I also understand that there is no physical proof or anyway to prove there is (or is not a God). From my point of view, Christianity as a whole has the problem of being to closed minded and unwilling to accept people that do not fit there ideals. Most Christians have a difficult time accepting postmodernism in anyway, and that seperates them from the rest of American/World society. Lastly, I believe that the last place Jesus would be seen is in a modern Church, instead he would be out playing xbox, pickup basketball, and just hanging out with people. Not preaching on streetcorners, but simply being on them, letting his character show. That's how he did things in the first century and that worked enough to start a whole "Jesus Movement" that gave the worlds super power at the time a shake.
 
[quote name='jah_warrior28']The problem people have with religion does not seem to be from the religion itself, but instead from the people that claim to be apart of it. That being said, I am a Christian and believe Jesus as the messiah sent to the Jewish people, but in believing that I also understand that there is no physical proof or anyway to prove there is (or is not a God). From my point of view, Christianity as a whole has the problem of being to closed minded and unwilling to accept people that do not fit there ideals. Most Christians have a difficult time accepting postmodernism in anyway, and that seperates them from the rest of American/World society. Lastly, I believe that the last place Jesus would be seen is in a modern Church, instead he would be out playing xbox, pickup basketball, and just hanging out with people. Not preaching on streetcorners, but simply being on them, letting his character show. That's how he did things in the first century and that worked enough to start a whole "Jesus Movement" that gave the worlds super power at the time a shake.[/quote]

Actually I, and many others, have something against religion in general.
 
[quote name='rockhero'][quote name='Wshakspear']
So what/who created whom/whatever that created this current universe?[/quote]

I don't know. That's what scientists WILL say, and religious folks generally won't.[/quote]

I think the problem stems from the fact that in humanity's experience, everything is made by something. We can trace anything back to a certain point (a piece of sand, a toy, a human being), but when it comes to the Universe we don't have an answer.

So we made one up. "God did it." It gives an answer to an unanswerable question (not that it makes any sense). When the Greeks were getting thundered upon, they couldn't scientifically prove WHY it happened, so they made something up. Zeus was angry, so he threw lightning down onto the world. We now look back on these beliefs as silly, and I believe that future generations will look back on the literal interpretations of the Bible as being equally silly.
 
[quote name='jah_warrior28']The problem people have with religion does not seem to be from the religion itself, but instead from the people that claim to be apart of it. That being said, I am a Christian and believe Jesus as the messiah sent to the Jewish people, but in believing that I also understand that there is no physical proof or anyway to prove there is (or is not a God). From my point of view, Christianity as a whole has the problem of being to closed minded and unwilling to accept people that do not fit there ideals. Most Christians have a difficult time accepting postmodernism in anyway, and that seperates them from the rest of American/World society. Lastly, I believe that the last place Jesus would be seen is in a modern Church, instead he would be out playing xbox, pickup basketball, and just hanging out with people. Not preaching on streetcorners, but simply being on them, letting his character show. That's how he did things in the first century and that worked enough to start a whole "Jesus Movement" that gave the worlds super power at the time a shake.[/quote]

Thats about the most sane and smart thing you will find on this site. Now, it is from a certain point of view, but its true according to your beliefs. *applause*
 
[quote name='punqsux'][quote name='JimmieMac']
Oh, I see, this isn't the OTT so you feel a bit out of place with out the rest of your ham and egger friends telling you what to think.[/quote]

did somebody say ham and eggers?

bobby_hennan.jpg
[/quote]

Man, that's a bad picture; he's the first person I thought of as well (though, given my participation in the wrestling thread, that shouldn't come as a surprise).

Jesus? Meh, as far as people go, his life is a pretty ethical standard to live by. Shame that his life was written about hundreds of years after his death, and omits most of his adolescent and postadolescent phases. If you're curious why that is the case, imagine what you are doing (or did) during those points in your life. That should answer that.

The Jesus myth (since I don't buy the Bible accounts as factual; but I also think it's a moot point) is, as I said, a good standard to live by.

I'd change the topic to "Christians are overrated." The Catholic church was morally opposed to participating in a capitalist economy prior to the first Vatican council (late 19th century). So, with that in mind, all Christians who participate in capitalism are...shall we say, "posers."

You can believe what you want; belief, in itself, is insufficient. How many hungry have you fed with your bible?

myke.
 
[quote name='jah_warrior28'] Lastly, I believe that the last place Jesus would be seen is in a modern Church, instead he would be out playing xbox, pickup basketball, and just hanging out with people.[/quote]

Dude, are you CRAZY?!?! That is the most absurd thing I have ever heard. He would DEFINATELY be playing PS2.
 
[quote name='evilmax17'][quote name='rockhero'][quote name='Wshakspear']
So what/who created whom/whatever that created this current universe?[/quote]

I don't know. That's what scientists WILL say, and religious folks generally won't.[/quote]

I think the problem stems from the fact that in humanity's experience, everything is made by something. We can trace anything back to a certain point (a piece of sand, a toy, a human being), but when it comes to the Universe we don't have an answer.

So we made one up. "God did it." It gives an answer to an unanswerable question (not that it makes any sense). When the Greeks were getting thundered upon, they couldn't scientifically prove WHY it happened, so they made something up. Zeus was angry, so he threw lightning down onto the world. We now look back on these beliefs as silly, and I believe that future generations will look back on the literal interpretations of the Bible as being equally silly.[/quote]

Maybe I'm "different", but I don't see what the problem is in not having a firm answer for everything. I believe that eventually we will understand all, and I'm perfectly fine waiting for that time without placeholder beliefs.
 
[quote name='btw1217'][quote name='jah_warrior28'] Lastly, I believe that the last place Jesus would be seen is in a modern Church, instead he would be out playing xbox, pickup basketball, and just hanging out with people.[/quote]

Dude, are you CRAZY?!?! That is the most absurd thing I have ever heard. He would DEFINATELY be playing PS2.[/quote]

Sorry I was assuming he had a moded his Xbox, lol.
 
[quote name='chosen1s']We're all going to die someday, and I can't think of anything more valuable than knowing that a loving God will welcome me into His kingdom when that day comes, whether it be tomorrow or a hundred years from now.[/quote]

What if when you die it's just over? Nothingness. I just can't accept that there is some other place that we all transcend to after we die. This is the main problem and the main reason why I find myself not believing any of this nonsense.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']
You can believe what you want; belief, in itself, is insufficient. How many hungry have you fed with your bible?
myke.[/quote]

I dunno, I'm sure theres some nutritional value to wood pulp...
 
[quote name='evilmax17'][quote name='rockhero'][quote name='Wshakspear']
So what/who created whom/whatever that created this current universe?[/quote]

I don't know. That's what scientists WILL say, and religious folks generally won't.[/quote]

I think the problem stems from the fact that in humanity's experience, everything is made by something. We can trace anything back to a certain point (a piece of sand, a toy, a human being), but when it comes to the Universe we don't have an answer.

So we made one up. "God did it." It gives an answer to an unanswerable question (not that it makes any sense). When the Greeks were getting thundered upon, they couldn't scientifically prove WHY it happened, so they made something up. Zeus was angry, so he threw lightning down onto the world. We now look back on these beliefs as silly, and I believe that future generations will look back on the literal interpretations of the Bible as being equally silly.[/quote]

I think that coming up with stories to answer questions just because we currently don't know the answer is extremely dangerous.
 
[quote name='javeryh'][quote name='chosen1s']We're all going to die someday, and I can't think of anything more valuable than knowing that a loving God will welcome me into His kingdom when that day comes, whether it be tomorrow or a hundred years from now.[/quote]

What if when you die it's just over? Nothingness. I just can't accept that there is some other place that we all transcend to after we die. This is the main problem and the main reason why I find myself not believing any of this nonsense.[/quote]

While I don't believe its all nonsense, I do find myself sometimes wishing the same thing. I don't want to work toward getting into a transcendental utopia. I'm too lazy for that. When I die, I'd rather that be the end of it. Although for me its a painful thought to think about never seeing those you love again. :(
 
its not random, its a legitimate response to something that happened previously!

and you guys need comic relief to make sure you dont get too serious.
 
[quote name='smalien1']God's cool but all organized religions are fucking stupid, first parts opinion and the second part is FACT.

Most, if not all wars are based on some fuckhead's religious beliefs.[/quote]

Although I wouldn't put it quite like that, I think organized religion has the potential to be harmful. Most hate groups commit their heinous acts in "the name of God". However, the same could be said about any idealogy (religious or otherwise) that is shared by more than a few people. Political views could easily fall into this (liberal and conservative alike.) Religion has also been a strong positive foundation in some of the most moving times in history (Martin Luther King Jr.) Who is to say what would have happened without faith in that situtation?

I think in general, most people have faith for one of a few reasons...

Belief in an afterlife...
A guide to live one's current life...
To explain our existence...


People who have views on these things through strictly philosophical study do not get the same treatment as those with religious study. I think a lot of the hostilty towards religious people is due not to the belief aspect but something else in human nature. People just don't like unsolicited opinions on how they should live. Although I do have some religious beliefs, I don't care for Jehovah's Witnesses knocking on my door. To me any philosophical or religious beliefs are best experienced through personal discovery and interpretation. Unless I ask for input I don't want it. That goes for anything in most people's lives.
 
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']its not random, its a legitimate response to something that happened previously!

and you guys need comic relief to make sure you dont get too serious.[/quote]

I don't deny that, but wtf does a bear falling out of a tree have to do with religion? I can't wait to hear the analogy...
 
[quote name='crystalklear64']For being a thread about how overrated Jesus is, I've heard very little arguements against the man himself.

First off, the OP is adressing the issue of religion in general, not Jesus, and though He is an integral part of some religions He is not the religion itself.

I dunno about the rest of you, but I'd say a man that gave up his life so that people everywhere could be saved from that place of eternal torment, you know hell, deserves a little respect, and that he is not at all over-rated but under-rated. How often do any of you hear about Jesus in a non-religious, non-church, enviornment? I feel that a little more respect and uh "rating" should be given, not taken away. And don't give me that Christmas crap, it may have started out as something respectful, but we all know its just a money maker nowadays.

I know where I stand, your turn :D[/quote]

A) Hell doesn't exist. Prove it without falling back on belief in faith. But not even considering that...

B) Jesus probably wasn't a bad guy, but let's look at what he did in a current way.

If Christianity were to start up today, it would be looked upon as a cult. Some guy walks around and tells everybody that he's the son of God, and that he IS God at the same time, and he talks to God (also at the same time). People do this today all the time, you can find them on the street corners of cities. Jesus got people to follow and believe in him, so his "street cred" grew a little bit. This doesn't make him any less crazy mind you, he just has a bunch of other crazy people backing him up, which makes him seem less crazy.

So Jesus said he was the Messiah, and a bunch of people believed in him. I think that the whole thing happened in a sort of "right place, right time" way. But really, any old crazy hippie could say the same things Jesus did, Jesus just said them at the right time. (That's not to say that the things Jesus said weren't good things, they were. As I've said before, the Bible has a bunch of good messages. But the good intentions get mashed together with things like "I will be resurected" and "He walked on water". If anybody came up to you and said he saw his Cult-leader walking on water, you'd think he was a complete basketcase.)

Jesus said some good things, but he was also a product of the time he was living in. They didn't have science, so they based their lives on religion. I think he should be considered an important historical figure, not a modern-day rolemodel.
 
[quote name='crystalklear64']Guess I'll be a post whore like Dr. Mario Kart and post random images...
[/quote]


:rofl:


You gotta know how to post the picture right first.
 
[quote name='crystalklear64'][quote name='Dr Mario Kart']its not random, its a legitimate response to something that happened previously!

and you guys need comic relief to make sure you dont get too serious.[/quote]

I don't deny that, but wtf does a bear falling out of a tree have to do with religion? I can't wait to hear the analogy...[/quote]

Its like....faith and stuff...yea...lets go with that...
 
[quote name='rockhero']I think that coming up with stories to answer questions just because we currently don't know the answer is extremely dangerous.[/quote]

Me too...me too...
 
Hey, Javery, aren't you a father? Was this thread inspired by your kid(s) asking you what happens when you die? :wink:
 
[quote name='XboxMaster'][quote name='crystalklear64']Guess I'll be a post whore like Dr. Mario Kart and post random images...
[/quote]


:rofl:


You gotta know how to post the picture right first.[/quote]

Wow, since I fixed it it kinda makes you look stupid... might wanna change it. :cool:
 
[quote name='the3rdkey']I have an idea lets dicuss politics next. Discussing topics no human on Earth can agree on is such a smart idea.[/quote]

As long as everyone remains civil there is nothing wrong with it. To be honest this topic has been fairly cordial considering the subject. I am all for people thinking and if that ruffles a few feathers along the way it is still worth the dialogue. It's NOT knowing how other people think that causes most of the problems in the world in the first place.
 
[quote name='evilmax17'][quote name='crystalklear64']For being a thread about how overrated Jesus is, I've heard very little arguements against the man himself.

First off, the OP is adressing the issue of religion in general, not Jesus, and though He is an integral part of some religions He is not the religion itself.

I dunno about the rest of you, but I'd say a man that gave up his life so that people everywhere could be saved from that place of eternal torment, you know hell, deserves a little respect, and that he is not at all over-rated but under-rated. How often do any of you hear about Jesus in a non-religious, non-church, enviornment? I feel that a little more respect and uh "rating" should be given, not taken away. And don't give me that Christmas crap, it may have started out as something respectful, but we all know its just a money maker nowadays.

I know where I stand, your turn :D[/quote]

A) Hell doesn't exist. Prove it without falling back on belief in faith. But not even considering that...

B) Jesus probably wasn't a bad guy, but let's look at what he did in a current way.

If Christianity were to start up today, it would be looked upon as a cult. Some guy walks around and tells everybody that he's the son of God, and that he IS God at the same time, and he talks to God (also at the same time). People do this today all the time, you can find them on the street corners of cities. Jesus got people to follow and believe in him, so his "street cred" grew a little bit. This doesn't make him any less crazy mind you, he just has a bunch of other crazy people backing him up, which makes him seem less crazy.

So Jesus said he was the Messiah, and a bunch of people believed in him. I think that the whole thing happened in a sort of "right place, right time" way. But really, any old crazy hippie could say the same things Jesus did, Jesus just said them at the right time. (That's not to say that the things Jesus said weren't good things, they were. As I've said before, the Bible has a bunch of good messages. But the good intentions get mashed together with things like "I will be resurected" and "He walked on water". If anybody came up to you and said he saw his Cult-leader walking on water, you'd think he was a complete basketcase.)

Jesus said some good things, but he was also a product of the time he was living in. They didn't have science, so they based their lives on religion. I think he should be considered an important historical figure, not a modern-day rolemodel.[/quote]


I do agree with that if Christianity started today it would be considered a cult. The only real problem about what you said is that Jesus proclaimed himself the Son of God. He never (recordly) said that. It seems that the phrase "Son of God" became a confession made by gentile-Christians in the Pauline era. THe reason being because the gentiles, mostly roman/greeks, could have cared less about a Messiah, but they could identify with a Son of God because of their current beliefs. If Jesus would've sad himself that he was the Son of God, the Jewish people would not have accepted him at all. I'm not agruing with what you said, you could preach the cult thing all day, because it was wierd at the time and still makes no real sense!!!
 
[quote name='evilmax17']
A) Hell doesn't exist. Prove it without falling back on belief in faith. But not even considering that...

B) Jesus probably wasn't a bad guy, but let's look at what he did in a current way.

If Christianity were to start up today, it would be looked upon as a cult. Some guy walks around and tells everybody that he's the son of God, and that he IS God at the same time, and he talks to God (also at the same time). People do this today all the time, you can find them on the street corners of cities. Jesus got people to follow and believe in him, so his "street cred" grew a little bit. This doesn't make him any less crazy mind you, he just has a bunch of other crazy people backing him up, which makes him seem less crazy.

So Jesus said he was the Messiah, and a bunch of people believed in him. I think that the whole thing happened in a sort of "right place, right time" way. But really, any old crazy hippie could say the same things Jesus did, Jesus just said them at the right time. (That's not to say that the things Jesus said weren't good things, they were. As I've said before, the Bible has a bunch of good messages. But the good intentions get mashed together with things like "I will be resurected" and "He walked on water". If anybody came up to you and said he saw his Cult-leader walking on water, you'd think he was a complete basketcase.)

Jesus said some good things, but he was also a product of the time he was living in. They didn't have science, so they based their lives on religion. I think he should be considered an important historical figure, not a modern-day rolemodel.[/quote]

All beliefs require faith. Atheism has no concrete evidence that I'm aware of. And Jesus wasn't just some guy building street cred. He did supernatural acts such as healing, defying laws of gravity, creating something of out nothing, and foretelling the future among other things. No one else has been able to do that. Binny Hinn is a fraud, so there goes healings, David Blaine is just a magician, there goes defying gravity, I can't even think of anyone who claims to create matter, and Nostradamus's "prohpecies" were nothing more than broad analogies, most of which were wrong altogether.
 
why is this topic still open ...why do non believers feel the need to equate religion as being a crutch, or something that makes them weak?...I have yet to see any posts from a religious person criticizing the beliefs of a non believer, so why do those that don't belive need to criticize? If you don't have anything nice to say, the don't say it...you will not change one's opinion on a message board
 
A) Hell doesn't exist. Prove it without falling back on belief in faith. But not even considering that...

You can't. I want you to prove to me that electrons exist. That matter is fundamentally made up of atoms. Prove the quantum foam. you have faith in those, right?

B) Jesus probably wasn't a bad guy, but let's look at what he did in a current way.

Ok, lets.

If Christianity were to start up today, it would be looked upon as a cult. Some guy walks around and tells everybody that he's the son of God, and that he IS God at the same time, and he talks to God (also at the same time).

Christianity WAS a cult. That was the whole point, Jews and Romans both tried to stamp it out. It was a movement that grew from one man.

People do this today all the time, you can find them on the street corners of cities. Jesus got people to follow and believe in him, so his "street cred" grew a little bit. This doesn't make him any less crazy mind you, he just has a bunch of other crazy people backing him up, which makes him seem less crazy.

I'm seeing the correlation between modern cults and early christianity, except in modern cults you voluntarity ostracize yourself, in christianity, you enter the community to do good works.

So Jesus said he was the Messiah, and a bunch of people believed in him. I think that the whole thing happened in a sort of "right place, right time" way. But really, any old crazy hippie could say the same things Jesus did, Jesus just said them at the right time. (That's not to say that the things Jesus said weren't good things, they were. As I've said before, the Bible has a bunch of good messages. But the good intentions get mashed together with things like "I will be resurected" and "He walked on water". If anybody came up to you and said he saw his Cult-leader walking on water, you'd think he was a complete basketcase.)

The other things are in there to prove the validity of the messages. I dont know about the walking on water thing, or the creating food from loaves of bread and fish, I just don't know. Believe or not the miracles as you will. Isn't the message what's important?

Jesus said some good things, but he was also a product of the time he was living in. They didn't have science, so they based their lives on religion. I think he should be considered an important historical figure, not a modern-day rolemodel.

People are still people. Why can we read Sun Tzu and model our warfare after him, but not read the Bible and model out interpersonal relationships after Jesus?
 
[quote name='nickmad']i also hate god and jesus. they are no good bastards.

ps. im dead serious.[/quote]

How i wish there was an ignore button.
 
[quote name='btw1217'][quote name='evilmax17']
A) Hell doesn't exist. Prove it without falling back on belief in faith. But not even considering that...

B) Jesus probably wasn't a bad guy, but let's look at what he did in a current way.

If Christianity were to start up today, it would be looked upon as a cult. Some guy walks around and tells everybody that he's the son of God, and that he IS God at the same time, and he talks to God (also at the same time). People do this today all the time, you can find them on the street corners of cities. Jesus got people to follow and believe in him, so his "street cred" grew a little bit. This doesn't make him any less crazy mind you, he just has a bunch of other crazy people backing him up, which makes him seem less crazy.

So Jesus said he was the Messiah, and a bunch of people believed in him. I think that the whole thing happened in a sort of "right place, right time" way. But really, any old crazy hippie could say the same things Jesus did, Jesus just said them at the right time. (That's not to say that the things Jesus said weren't good things, they were. As I've said before, the Bible has a bunch of good messages. But the good intentions get mashed together with things like "I will be resurected" and "He walked on water". If anybody came up to you and said he saw his Cult-leader walking on water, you'd think he was a complete basketcase.)

Jesus said some good things, but he was also a product of the time he was living in. They didn't have science, so they based their lives on religion. I think he should be considered an important historical figure, not a modern-day rolemodel.[/quote]

All beliefs require faith. Atheism has no concrete evidence that I'm aware of. And Jesus wasn't just some guy building street cred. He did supernatural acts such as healing, defying laws of gravity, creating something of out nothing, and foretelling the future among other things. No one else has been able to do that. Binny Hinn is a fraud, so there goes healings, David Blaine is just a magician, there goes defying gravity, I can't even think of anyone who claims to create matter, and Nostradamus's "prohpecies" were nothing more than broad analogies, most of which were wrong altogether.[/quote]

In addition, he already had a book announce his future arrival hundreds of hundreds of years before he was ever born.
 
[quote name='ryanbph']why is this topic still open ...why do non believers feel the need to equate religion as being a crutch, or something that makes them weak?...I have yet to see any posts from a religious person criticizing the beliefs of a non believer, so why do those that don't belive need to criticize? If you don't have anything nice to say, the don't say it...you will not change one's opinion on a message board[/quote]

I like ice cream. Maybe you dont. Perhaps somebody else out there has never tried ice cream before and would love to hear both of our notions about it. Nothing wrong with any of that IMHO.

And just because somebody doesnt agree with your beliefs, doesnt mean its criticizm. Its a difference of opinion. Thats all.
 
[quote name='ryanbph']why is this topic still open ...why do non believers feel the need to equate religion as being a crutch, or something that makes them weak?[/quote]

is it because....thats what they believe?

[quote name='ryanbph']have yet to see any posts from a religious person criticizing the beliefs of a non believer[/quote]

its not often so directly stated, but ive occasionally had it said to my face. non-believers go to hell.
 
[quote name='fanskad']A) Hell doesn't exist. Prove it without falling back on belief in faith. But not even considering that...

You can't. I want you to prove to me that electrons exist. That matter is fundamentally made up of atoms. Prove the quantum foam. you have faith in those, right?

B) Jesus probably wasn't a bad guy, but let's look at what he did in a current way.

Ok, lets.

If Christianity were to start up today, it would be looked upon as a cult. Some guy walks around and tells everybody that he's the son of God, and that he IS God at the same time, and he talks to God (also at the same time).

Christianity WAS a cult. That was the whole point, Jews and Romans both tried to stamp it out. It was a movement that grew from one man.

People do this today all the time, you can find them on the street corners of cities. Jesus got people to follow and believe in him, so his "street cred" grew a little bit. This doesn't make him any less crazy mind you, he just has a bunch of other crazy people backing him up, which makes him seem less crazy.

I'm seeing the correlation between modern cults and early christianity, except in modern cults you voluntarity ostracize yourself, in christianity, you enter the community to do good works.

So Jesus said he was the Messiah, and a bunch of people believed in him. I think that the whole thing happened in a sort of "right place, right time" way. But really, any old crazy hippie could say the same things Jesus did, Jesus just said them at the right time. (That's not to say that the things Jesus said weren't good things, they were. As I've said before, the Bible has a bunch of good messages. But the good intentions get mashed together with things like "I will be resurected" and "He walked on water". If anybody came up to you and said he saw his Cult-leader walking on water, you'd think he was a complete basketcase.)

The other things are in there to prove the validity of the messages. I dont know about the walking on water thing, or the creating food from loaves of bread and fish, I just don't know. Believe or not the miracles as you will. Isn't the message what's important?

Jesus said some good things, but he was also a product of the time he was living in. They didn't have science, so they based their lives on religion. I think he should be considered an important historical figure, not a modern-day rolemodel.

People are still people. Why can we read Sun Tzu and model our warfare after him, but not read the Bible and model out interpersonal relationships after Jesus?[/quote]

:applause: :applause: :applause:
 
[quote name='ryanbph']why is this topic still open ...why do non believers feel the need to equate religion as being a crutch, or something that makes them weak?...I have yet to see any posts from a religious person criticizing the beliefs of a non believer, so why do those that don't belive need to criticize? If you don't have anything nice to say, the don't say it...you will not change one's opinion on a message board[/quote]

I don't think it's about changing minds, I think it's about intelligent discussion. As long as you're not all "JESUS IS GAY!" or "ATHEISM IS FOR GOTH LOSERS", the no harm no foul. As long as we're "debating" and not "flaming", I think we're good.

that being said...

[quote name='btw1217']He did supernatural acts such as healing, defying laws of gravity, creating something of out nothing, and foretelling the future among other things. No one else has been able to do that. [/quote]

:roll:

I've got this bridge I can sell you...
 
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']its not often so directly stated, but ive occasionally had it said to my face. non-believers go to hell.[/quote]

That's why Christianity is shunned as much as it is. No one wants to hear that. It's definately not the way to go about talking to someone about your religion. Those are the radical Christians and should not reflect Christianity and Christians as a whole.
 
God, Country, and Corps... That's my beliefs in three words.

For all those non-beleivers, I pose a question. How did we get here? Was it an accident that this planet was created and life was put on it? Ok, too 'out there'?

Think about your games. Some divine power must have imbited the Earth with enough raw materials so that we all can have an HD TV, Xbox with Halo in it. Pretty amazing, huh? Think off all the raw materials it takes to make one of those.

Just 200 years ago, people would have given a Kingdom to travel instantly in the world or have today consoles. Now we can take a jet anywhere we want, or switch on the power to our machine and be transported in a different way.

All are God's love.
 
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