Little Big Planet - Gen. Discussion & Info

I honestly get that Okami/Z&W feel from LBP. It's sad really, but at least Sony's promoting it, unlike the 2 I mentioned. A heavy marketing campaign can sell any game, especially since there is a mindset that the only good games are the ones you see in TV ads.

I like the idea of the in-game economy. Although I think you'll only be able to use it for stuff on the PS Store (Just my guess). You have to have a lot of talent though, building a lot of free levels before you can sell for profit (And those always stay free). So, you might just want to hold the great stuff back for later.
 
[quote name='KingBroly']I like the idea of the in-game economy.[/QUOTE]

But it wouldn't be an in-game economy. The term "in-game economy" refers to simulated economic systems (supply and demand, etc) in games, usually MMOs; it's a strictly virtual term.

What they're talking about for LBP here is an IRL economy, and that's what I have such an utter distaste for.
 
Apparently you don't have to buy the stuff that people make. I don't understand why you're so angry about this. If you don't think the game will be any good, then don't buy it, and you won't have to deal with the game's economy. All you're doing is complaining about something that people are genuinely excited for.
 
[quote name='orko60']Apparently you don't have to buy the stuff that people make. I don't understand why you're so angry about this. If you don't think the game will be any good, then don't buy it, and you won't have to deal with the game's economy. All you're doing is complaining about something that people are genuinely excited for.[/QUOTE]

[quote name='dallow']You're not gonna buy this game are you, CoffeeEdge?[/QUOTE]

Okay, and to the people who won't buy Mass Effect on PC due to it's copy protection clashing with their principals, you would say, what?

Just because I ain't buying it doesn't mean I don't get to chime in.
 
I wasn't trying to make any sort of point.

Just had to remind myself of something, and ended up getting a small chuckle out of it.
Do go on.
 
[quote name='CoffeeEdge']Okay, and to the people who won't buy Mass Effect on PC due to it's copy protection clashing with their principals, you would say, what?

Just because I ain't buying it doesn't mean I don't get to chime in.[/quote]

The copy protection is unavoidable, if you purchase Mass Effect and want to play it you have to take part...bad analogy. Here they are just giving you the option, there will still be free content provided by the majority and if you don't want to take part, you don't have to and can still thoroughly enjoy the game without doing so.
 
[quote name='brighenne']The copy protection is unavoidable, if you purchase Mass Effect and want to play it you have to take part...bad analogy. Here they are just giving you the option, there will still be free content provided by the majority and if you don't want to take part, you don't have to and can still thoroughly enjoy the game without doing so.[/QUOTE]

I just think it's a bad trend to be starting.

I don't really care about LBP specifically; I fear that if they DO go through with it, and it IS some sort of success, that I'll eventually be paying for people's Halo 4 levels, as well.
 
[quote name='CoffeeEdge']I just think it's a bad trend to be starting.

I don't really care about LBP specifically; I fear that if they DO go through with it, and it IS some sort of success, that I'll eventually be paying for people's Halo 4 levels, as well.[/quote]

I don't see how that's much different than paying for map packs currently with other games.
 
You won't be paying for any old map either.
There's going to be a lot of shit out there, good and bad, but the devs are handpicking certain creators to have this priviledge.

And we know there are some pretty creative people out there.
 
[quote name='brighenne']I don't see how that's much different than paying for map packs currently with other games.[/QUOTE]

Because those are usually made by, uh, professionals.
 
[quote name='CoffeeEdge']Because those are usually made by, uh, professionals.[/quote]

They're not going to let some half-assed piece of crap go up for sale though; as long as the devs hold third party created content to their own standards, there are no problems.
 
[quote name='CoffeeEdge']Because those are usually made by, uh, professionals.[/quote]

If the quality is the same, then what's the difference? I've seen plenty of "professional" work that sucks balls, and seen plenty of mod work that is great. Look at the guys who made "Frontlines: Fuel of War." They were simply modders who were put on a real project. If someone is doing professional-quality work, then why shouldn't they have the option to get paid for it?

This slippery slope isn't starting with LBP, by the way. Remember Horse Armor? That was the real beginning. This is simply a natural evolution. Why aren't you arguing about Cafepress or something? That's the same deal, only there is NO quality control. It's more like Threadless, where only the best survive. I think that's a more apt analogy.
 
Actually, you do realize a lot of game developers work project to project right? I know a lot of game designers that also do work on the side.

No doubt some of them will want to create LBP levels, and those will be created by professionals.
 
Let's just ignore him...he seems to be arguing without having a horse in the race, so to speak. Like Rolento, I have lots of ideas running about in my head about levels I could make. I hope to be one of these "professionals" (I actually used to be a professional game designer and artist, albeit for total shit games) who is doing levels for sale. This is a great idea, in my opinion, and will get people fighting to make actual, real, decent levels for people to show off their skills so they can get PIZZZZZZZZZZZZAAIIIIIIDDDD!
 
Again, just look at what a mess Second Life is. I can point that out and pretty much rest my case.

I'm of the opinion that if you're not on the development team, that you have no right making any money off of any mods/levels you make for a game.

I'm also interested in how they'd handle the ownership issues...
 
Well, the devs seem to think you have a right to earn money if you're good enough.


Threadless was a good example.
Only the best of the best of the best could possibly become premium DLC.
 
[quote name='dallow']Well, the devs seem to think you have a right to earn money if you're good enough.[/QUOTE]

And I think they're starting a really, really bad trend.
 
If it it encouraging good, creative level design, I don't mind.

If shit levels start to cost money, which I don't see happening, then it'd be a bad thing.
 
[quote name='dallow']If it it encouraging good, creative level design, I don't mind.

If shit levels start to cost money, which I don't see happening, then it'd be a bad thing.[/QUOTE]

It's about intention, not quality, in my estimation. I don't think there should be any other incentive to build levels or mod games, other than the reward of creation. It will create ugly incentives and intentions among some users, which I think is an awful blot on what is otherwise (aside from the characters) a fairly cute game.
 
[quote name='imascrub']http://www.joystiq.com/2008/07/22/user-created-xbox-live-games-to-cost-as-low-as-2-50-devs-get-u/

Though I don't know anything about this XNA thing they are using to create the games. I hear it takes a bit of programming knowhow to do it. Not quite the beginning of the end of the world as Coffee prophesized.[/QUOTE]

That's completely and utterly different. XNA is just a game-specific development framework/enviroment, designed to help free developers from writing some of the most basic and mundae code.

Comparing XNA to LBP is like comparing an automotive engineer designing a new car from the ground up, to a kid playing with building blocks.
 
You guy's really arguing with CoffeeEdge? He's all butt hurt that Little Big Planet is awesome and is happy to finally find something he can complain about that is not even a good point.

I'm sure there will be thousands upon thousands of free levels and so if there is 2 you have to pay a dollar for so be it.
 
[quote name='CoffeeEdge']That's completely and utterly different. XNA is just a game-specific development framework/enviroment, designed to help free developers from writing some of the most basic and mundae code.

Comparing XNA to LBP is like comparing an automotive engineer designing a new car from the ground up, to a kid playing with building blocks.[/quote]

:applause:
 
[quote name='DarkNessBear']You guy's really arguing with CoffeeEdge? He's all butt hurt that Little Big Planet is awesome and is happy to finally find something he can complain about that is not even a good point.

I'm sure there will be thousands upon thousands of free levels and so if there is 2 you have to pay a dollar for so be it.[/QUOTE]

I've said it a dozen times now, it's not about LBP specifically (a game which I have never been interested in, due to what I percieve as poor platforming mechanics, and hideous character design).

What I don't like is the trend that this has the potential to spark.

I'm disgusted and seriously turned off by the possibility of a future in which, let's say, I'm browsing user-created characters in Soul Calibur V, and see that I have to pay $1.99 for the one with the cape with the custom user-created texture on it. Keep that shit in Second Life, not in my console games.
 
Hey CoffeeEdge, make a thread in the general games forum.
This slippery slope idea of priced user-created content would make for a good general discussion there.

PS. I like that nice little dig you managed to get in at LBP in that last post.
Good work.
 
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I think the difference in creating soul calibur characters is that everything they give you is predetermined, and you're just mixing and matching to your liking, which everybody can probably do by taking note of which outfits they like. What I can see though is probably Namco releasing more outfit customization options for sale or for free that adds that wonderful cape some people may love, because those kinds of things can't be created from scratch on your own...or can they? I don't actually know how that shit is going to work lol.

Let's not forget that all the levels found on the LBP game disc are also all created using the exact same tools that they're giving us. What's the difference between a good level by an actual level designer vs a good level by a very creative user? And on that same note, what's the difference between crappy levels by both? I don't know how they're planning to decide which levels are pay or not (some kind of screening committee I assume), and I don't even remember reading that it was confirmed that there was going to be this pay system for user created levels (I just waltzed right into this thread one day and found people talking back and forth about it).

There are probably a ton of creative users out there who may create levels that are even better than the level designers from Molecule somethin or other. Whether or not this guy wants to sell it is up to him, and from there is up to the screening committee. Those guys could see the level and say, "holy shit this guy created a level that we wouldn't have dreamed possible," or "wow that is really somethin else why didn't we think of that?" And in the end, whether or not you want to buy it is up to you. There will be just as many if not a butt-ton more good and decently fun levels that are free than there will probably be pay levels.

True, there are probably a lot of people who think they can turn a pretty penny from throwing together some elements and call it a level, but there are also a lot of good people who would rather they just distribute a kickass level, admission free of charge.
 
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My point is that it LBP does this, and it does spark a trend, that it will only get worse as time goes on.

In this becomes the case, I wouldn't be surprised if I eventually had to pay to download certain "selected" user-created creatures in Spore 2, or certain "selected" user-created songs in Guitar Hero 5. I just don't see how anyone could see that as a good thing for gaming. Oh well.
 
with as many users as there are who have access to the exact same tools, there will be an infinitely large number of choices available that are alternative to that one thing that people have to pay for. And out of that number, I'm sure there is at least one that you will be just as happy with. (I think what darknessbear was trying to drive home)
 
[quote name='imascrub']with as many users as there are who have access to the exact same tools, there will be an infinitely large number of choices available that are alternative to that one thing that people have to pay for. And out of that number, I'm sure there is at least one that you will be just as happy with. (I think what darknessbear was trying to drive home)[/QUOTE]

And what happens when someone decides to clone, what someone else is charging for?

Ugh. LBP lawsuits.
 
You always have the option to NOT buy the content, just like all these map packs and horse armor. The only difference is who's making it, and I don't see that as a big deal. "OMG, I can't get a Soul Caliber IV character that some nerd made!!!"

Not the end of the world, dude.
 
[quote name='CoffeeEdge']In this becomes the case, I wouldn't be surprised if I eventually had to pay to download certain "selected" user-created creatures in Spore 2, or certain "selected" user-created songs in Guitar Hero 5. I just don't see how anyone could see that as a good thing for gaming. Oh well.[/QUOTE]

I see it as an added incentive for people to create more content. A game like LBP heavily relies on community and user-created content, and this is just a way to encourage both of those things to flourish.

I'm not really for paying for user-created content, but I do think its fair to have the option. We've been lucky to have so much free DLC/user-created content in the past, but I think it's entirely fair for a gamer who has put in the time to make the level to charge, if he/she chooses so. We really just paid for the content on the disc, and any free downloadable content is an added bonus. But, like someone said, you aren't forced to buy said content, and people aren't forced to charge for it (I believe).

I'm not really encouraging paying for user-created content, but I do think it is fair, and it does give gamers an added incentive to create more levels, so there are benefits.

I'm hoping LBP sells really well (I really wish Sony would bundle it with the PS3 for the holiday), and has a large community. With a large community creating a lot of levels, there will definitely be some stiff competition meaning those who want to sell their levels for money will have to price aggressively and create some worthwhile content.
 
No game has ever needed the added incentive of money, but it certainly doesn't hurt. LBP would still have user-created content if they were all free, but this will certainly bring in more content. Half Life 2 would have most likely had more content as well, had they implemented this system. I never said it was necessary for user content to exist, I just said it will add another incentive and will only help more content get out there.
 
CS Source has a butt-load of mods and we never had to pay for any of them (they're not perfect but they work). All user-created content should be free!
 
[quote name='Inf^Shini']CS Source has a butt-load of mods and we never had to pay for any of them (they're not perfect but they work). All user-created content should be free![/QUOTE]


:applause:
 
I'm in the dark... user created content they will charge for?... I guess I don't know enough about what the game actually entails.
 
No initial user created content will cost anything. They just said that there's potential that leading level creators could make some money in the future and the xbots are angry they won't get the game.
 
[quote name='happy']They just said that there's potential that leading level creators could make some money in the future and the xbots are angry they won't get the game.[/QUOTE]

Wow. Those two statements were totally related and relevant to each other.

And for christ's sake, you're using the word "xbot" here? I thought that only GameFAQs and the GameTrailers forums were able to sustain the sort of retardation that it takes to use that term.
 
[quote name='CoffeeEdge']Half-Life 2 did implement this system.

It's called "licensing the Source engine and then using it to make something wholly original that you can actually justifiably charge for."

It worked for The Ship.[/QUOTE]

I'm confused as to what you're getting at. When you said "Half Life 2 didn't need it", I thought you meant it didn't allow for users to charge for their created content and it was fine without it. But, if I understand correctly, it did have something that allowed this, correct? Sorry, just trying to clarify here, not too familiar with Half Life 2.

[quote name='Inf^Shini']CS Source has a butt-load of mods and we never had to pay for any of them (they're not perfect but they work). All user-created content should be free![/QUOTE]

I think everyone agrees they should be free. Free is always better than paying for something. Hell, all games should be free as well, but, realistically, that's not going to happen. We've been fortunate enough to get user-created content in the past for free, but I think it's entirely fair for users to start charging for their content, should they choose to do so. I also feel that this will encourage users by giving them additional motivation to create more content and help the community flourish. Do I wish it was free? Definitely, but, at the same time, I think it is fair for users to charge a fee, should they chose to. I'll only buy a game if I feel the content on the disc is worth it. I normally won't buy a game, and pray that my money can be justified in the future through some off chance that they provide me without enough quality free DLC to make my purchase worth it. As far as I'm concerned, DLC (including user-created content) is an added bonus that I can choose to or not to buy based on the price of the content and quality.
 
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I only use it when appropriate for people spamming the discussions about "a game which I have never been interested in." As others have said, if you want a discussion about charging for user created content in general make a thread in the General gaming forum.
 
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