Little Big Planet - Gen. Discussion & Info

[quote name='CoffeeEdge']um, stfu, plz. >:|

Viva Pinata was awesome.[/QUOTE]

I guess it was awesome to you and yours, but to everyone else, it wasn't that great, and it probably won't be halfway as good as LBP.
 
[quote name='Thomas96']I guess it was awesome to you and yours, but to everyone else, it wasn't that great, and it probably won't be halfway as good as LBP.[/QUOTE]

I agree... Viva Pinata sucks ass. LBP looks bad ass.

Have we gotten any indication of price on LBP yet?
 
[quote name='Vinny']I agree... Viva Pinata sucks ass. LBP looks bad ass.

Have we gotten any indication of price on LBP yet?[/QUOTE]

I don't know of any pricing forthe game yet, most people have a generic 59.99 price set up.
 
mlm3oz.gif


All the newer videos.
I love the music in the 'boss battle' vid.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12049041&postcount=628
 
[quote name='Furashu']http://www.ps3fanboy.com/2008/07/20/littlebigplanet-allows-users-to-charge-for-created-content/

people are going to CHARGE for created stuff? wtf doesnt that ruin the whole "community" part of this?

i know people put time into it and sure they might "deserve it" but who the hell cares, this isnt a business its a game.
if i end up having to pay $1 per map screw that.[/QUOTE]


that's a certified screw up you've found there... because there's no programming involved for the creation of the levels, its all in game stuff. If Sony wants to offer some map packs and some special guest developer map pack, that's fine, I'm happy as long as there's the ability for everyday users to pass along stuff we've created for free.

now from the article it does say that you have to qualify before you can sell anything, so not everyone will have a chance to sell their levels. But the good thing is that there's going to be some free content and the fact that you could get paid for level creation is a good way to lure people to develop content for the game.
 
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I'm calling bullshit on the whole boss battle video. I don't think it would be possible to make something like that. For one, they haven't showed how to make items that go in the background, and also how triggers work. That boss fight is all trigger based and would need a lot of coding in order to get it to work. It would have to be something like, if Boss A gets hit with bomb then A gets pulled up and Boss B (background) pulls up then Boss B lifts down and drops bombs in 4 second intervals. Ect.

And with that much scripting, they haven't shown how to make trigger scripts at all. Thus all player created levels will just be the simple run left to right and then wouldn't be worth the price of the individual map (if the creator charges for it)... I'm totally fine with the simple levels, but I hope they aren't showing that Boss Battle like it's something users can create.

They've shown a lot of the create aspects, but they haven't shown any of the function aspects. IE springs, treadmills, pulleys ect. And if they do have those functions then how customizable are they? Would you be able to change the size, the spring density and the spring initial resistance or how tight the spring coil is twisted? Or is every spring going to shoot you an equal distance? It's great they show us the physical creation and design but how about some functionality to?
 
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[quote name='Thomas96']that's a certified screw up you've found there... because there's no programming involved for the creation of the levels, its all in game stuff. If Sony wants to offer some map packs and some special guest developer map pack, that's fine, I'm happy as long as there's the ability for everyday users to pass along stuff we've created for free.

now from the article it does say that you have to qualify before you can sell anything, so not everyone will have a chance to sell their levels. But the good thing is that there's going to be some free content and the fact that you could get paid for level creation is a good way to lure people to develop content for the game.[/quote]

If people have the option to charge or not I'll be fine with that. Anyone that is going to charge money will need to prove themselves with some really good free levels first or nobody will buy it. Also it's a safe bet that a lot of people will just put out levels for free anyway because they would rather have thousands play the level than make a few dollars.

The potential for future profit may also encourage some people to make better levels.

The funny thing is this is exactly what MS said they wanted to do with Live many E3s ago with people being able to sell content made in game (velocity girl I think).

For the bosses, I'm curious how they will be created in level. Even if they can't be it wouldn't stop me from getting the game because I'm surprised they exist at all. Supposedly there are trigger mechanisms though so it seems possible.
 
[quote name='dallow']They have shown some trigger based things in older videos.[/quote]
Oh really? But wasn't it actual triggers you step on? Not context sensitive triggers?
 
[quote name='happy']If people have the option to charge or not I'll be fine with that. Anyone that is going to charge money will need to prove themselves with some really good free levels first or nobody will buy it. Also it's a safe bet that a lot of people will just put out levels for free anyway because they would rather have thousands play the level than make a few dollars.

The potential for future profit may also encourage some people to make better levels.

The funny thing is this is exactly what MS said they wanted to do with Live many E3s ago with people being able to sell content made in game (velocity girl I think).

For the bosses, I'm curious how they will be created in level. Even if they can't be it wouldn't stop me from getting the game because I'm surprised they exist at all. Supposedly there are trigger mechanisms though so it seems possible.[/QUOTE]

Would you buy a level made by the guys from Penny Arcade? Interactive webcomics... could be fun... 1 dollar.

Content isn't going to be a problem, but what I'm worried about is the challenge of the levels... how hard of puzzles can be made in LBP. I'm wondering how this game is going to stack up against other 2d adventure games, like, Bonk, Mischief Makers, and Mario. This game needs bosses, that's a step in the right direction, but like I said before the game needs to be challenging, or else it might end up being tedious switch pulling. During the Playstation Commercial, there was a scene (brief) where it looked like they (sackboy and friends) were fighting each other... I don't know if you or anyone else noticed it. If what I saw is correct, then that brings another element to the game.

Well see how it turns out...
 
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Only people who are either poor or cheap (i.e. children) would be complaining about this. Incentives are great for a create and share game like this. Since there's no way you can force people to create content. If you would like to create levels to share with people for free, it's still there. Honestly though, only people who have not entered the work force would not understand that compensation equals a higher quality of work.

To the whiny kids: Even you do chores like taking out the trash and washing the dishes in the hopes that mommy gives you a bigger allowance next week.
 
I'm pretty sure I saw that there will be big challenging bosses featured in the game.

And anyway, you could create some of you wanted too.

>>>HERE you go.

The fan favorite just got more interesting.

Leaping over user-created obstacles is fun 'n all, but wouldn't LittleBigPlanet be that much better if there were enemies trying to stop you from going on your merry way? Yeah, it would, which is why we're happy the latest issue of Electronic Gaming Monthly -- the one with Halo 3 on the cover -- confirms this in an interview with Media Molecule Senior Producer Pete Wilson.

"It's funny -- I don't think we actually mentioned this previously, but yes, we will certainly have enemies in the game; I think that's a fundamental part of good gameplay," said Wilson. "They will range from little robots that simply roam from left to right to spectacularly complex beasts that pose quite a challenge. We've recently built this big, huge giant, and, as with other objects in the game, he's composed entirely of materials that you wouldn't expect. He's quite intimidating, and shows the possibility of what designers can create."

Hopefully, we'll see all this in action soon enough. Tokyo Game Show, here we come.
Click to expand...
 
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You call bullshit on something you know so little about?

It's not that difficult. All enemies in the game can be given an AI brain object (invisible) that governs their actions and can even override joints.

They also have explosives in the game which can and will blow apart pieces that have been tagged as destructible.

That boss battle was created with the in-game tools. In fact, that's not the biggest boss battle. In an interview on the 1up yours show, the lead programmer/producer talks about how one of the designers there created a 120+ jointed monstrosity of a boss that had multiple stages and transformed, all with the in-game toolset.

The features are there, and available. Now, they're not saying it won't take time to create these things or that it won't be complex, but it's all possible.

But this is no different than say, Kismet with the unreal engine, or any other object based scripting language.

In that boss battle shown, it's easy enough to do if you break it down.

The characters in the backgrounds are just props. When they jump up over the top of the screen they just disappear. Then a proper enemy model with various parts controlled by AI brains drops down into the play area. The AI brain has the whole model move left and right, all the while another part of the brain makes sure to keep the bomb launchers pointing towards sackboy, a third function of the AI brain is to detect when the trigger has been hit by a bomb, causing the enemy to explode and disapear.

Anyone who has done simple game development with things like darkbasic, RPG Maker, and other packages understands that it's not that hard to do, it just takes time. And what you have to remember is, these game developers are paid to do nothing but come up with cool stuff for LBP.
 
There was one video where they mentioned building tanks with rocket launcher type things and I think you could use them to have sack boy fights.

I hope they have some kind of feature where after you beat a level you can see how it was made (at least with pre-loaded levels), especially for the bosses, it would probably give a big head start for people learning how to make their own.

The question is which will appear first, solid snake or master chief?
 
"We've recently built this big, huge giant, and, as with other objects in the game, he's composed entirely of materials that you wouldn't expect. He's quite intimidating, and shows the possibility of what designers can create."

Shadow of the LittleBigPlanet?
 
[quote name='DarkNessBear']I'm calling bullshit on the whole boss battle video. I don't think it would be possible to make something like that. For one, they haven't showed how to make items that go in the background, and also how triggers work. That boss fight is all trigger based and would need a lot of coding in order to get it to work. It would have to be something like, if Boss A gets hit with bomb then A gets pulled up and Boss B (background) pulls up then Boss B lifts down and drops bombs in 4 second intervals. Ect.

And with that much scripting, they haven't shown how to make trigger scripts at all. Thus all player created levels will just be the simple run left to right and then wouldn't be worth the price of the individual map (if the creator charges for it)... I'm totally fine with the simple levels, but I hope they aren't showing that Boss Battle like it's something users can create.[/quote]For all we know there's templates in place for boss battles. Chill.
 
[quote name='Nephlabobo']"We've recently built this big, huge giant, and, as with other objects in the game, he's composed entirely of materials that you wouldn't expect. He's quite intimidating, and shows the possibility of what designers can create."

Shadow of the LittleBigPlanet?[/quote]

I'm willing to bet you could build some kind of creature that you would need to jump and climb up with some kind of switch on the head to destroy it.
 
The head of MM that was at E3 on the last 1up Yours mentioned of one their more creative people made a large, multi-part boss for the game, sort of like one of the Colossi.
 
Sorry, but I think that letting people charge for stuff they make in a drag-n-drop editor is pretty awful.

It's against the TOS to charge for something you make using, for instance, the Source SDK, for crying out loud. Doing this for LBP is just an awful idea, if you ask me.

It also sounds like asking for trouble, and I expect it to result in much drama, similar to, for instance, Deviantart; any dramaticians here will know what I mean. You'll get morons making and attempting to sell utter crap, thinking they're goddamn DiVinci, and there will be artwar drama explosions.
 
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[quote name='RelentlessRolento']well, it's not set in stone, but I think original content like what I plan on doing is what works.[/QUOTE]

I just don't see how anything created in what is essentially a drag-n-drop level editor, regardless of whether someone goes to the effort of making some original custom textures or whatever, could possibly justify carrying a pricetag, in the face of what people are creating using, for instance, the Source SDK, and releasing for free. There are teams out there investing hundreds of manhours, over months of their lives, to create not just new maps, but things as varied as vehicle combat, point-n-click style adventure, and RTS games. Projects such as these require large amounts of code work, and often use what are mostly wholly original graphical assets. And they release them for free. No real incentive other than the satisfaction of creation.

If they go through with this for LBP, it will be a festering breeding ground full of talentless hacks thinking that their shitty stacks of blocks are actually worth money, and getting offended when they aren't drenched in praise. Again, I point to DA as an example. It just sours the whole thing, to think that there will inevitably be self-important "entrepreneuring" assholes out there thinking that they should be able to make their living off of their LBP creations, similar to the Second Life real estate agents out there. It just takes away from the simplicity of it being just a game.
 
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alot of user created content can be brought into the level editor. on top of that a level-editor is a consumer based low level SDK in a sense.

See it this way: Im a company that manufactures the paints and canvas that you work with, but in the end you sell your art using what they give you.
 
It'd be nice if... Namco Bandai were to do a level with Soul Calibur IV backgrounds, costumes, Sackboys, and a SC IV inspired bosss at the end. This extra DLC, whether its from friends, or from developers (charging a fee) means nothing if the core levels and game aren't up to par. This game still needs a story, a purpose...
 
[quote name='RelentlessRolento']alot of user created content can be brought into the level editor. on top of that a level-editor is a consumer based low level SDK in a sense.

See it this way: Im a company that manufactures the paints and canvas that you work with, but in the end you sell your art using what they give you.[/QUOTE]

Note my edit:
It just sours the whole thing, to think that there will inevitably be self-important "entrepreneuring" assholes out there thinking that they should be able to make their living off of their LBP creations, similar to the Second Life real estate agents out there. It just takes away from the simplicity of it being just a game.
Click to expand...


I think that it will only hurt this game, by adding an economy, where there simply doesn't deserve to be one. It results in ugliness and drama.

I absolutely understand the parallel regarding SDKs and paints and canvases, but again, in this specific case, I just don't see how they could justify any sort of monetizing of anything created for LBP, in light of something like the Source SDK, which very specifically forbids profiting (as do most PC SDKs). You have to buy an expensive license, if you want to sell something you create in Source, and it has to be 100% original/licensed/cleared.

Buying a Source license, or better, an entire, full-blown videogame development suite license, I can understand relating to paints and canvas. LBP's creation tools amount to, at the very best, crayons.
 
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[quote name='CoffeeEdge']Note my edit:



I think that it will only hurt this game, by adding an economy, where there simply doesn't deserve to be one. It results in ugliness and drama.

I absolutely understand the parallel regarding SDKs and paints and canvases, but again, in this specific case, I just don't see how they could justify any sort of monetizing of anything created for LBP, in light of something like the Source SDK, which very specifically forbids profiting (as do most PC SDKs). You have to buy an expensive license, if you want to sell something you create in Source, and it has to be 100% original/licensed/cleared.

Buying a Source license, or better, an entire, full-blown videogame development suite license, I can understand relating to paints and canvas. LBP's creation tools amount to, at the very best, crayons.[/QUOTE]

I see your point. For people like me it's good for who actually want to put alot of work and original time into, but the amount of assholes and dumbasses outweigh the good. Maybe moderators of pricing will take hand.
 
[quote name='RelentlessRolento']I see your point. For people like me it's good for who actually want to put alot of work and original time into, but the amount of assholes and dumbasses outweigh the good. Maybe moderators of pricing will take hand.[/QUOTE]

Or they could just not go through with it, and relegate LBP to being just the game it is, instead of an economic platform. :/
 
You do know that you can't sell shit unless the developers recognize your talents and give you the ability to charge after creating a bunch of great levels first, right?

Nobody's going to be able to go in, create simple levels, and expect to sell them for any cost.
 
[quote name='FriskyTanuki']You do know that you can't sell shit unless the developers recognize your talents and give you the ability to charge after creating a bunch of great levels first, right?[/QUOTE]
Which means most of them will end up being SUPER divas about their creations.

I relate that to the pricy prints of eyeball close-up photos, anime crap, and digital paintings of crashing planets or whatever on Deviantart. For christ's sake, someone thinks that THIS is worth nearly $40.

I'm just of the opinion that games should stay games, not market economies.
 
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I wouldn't be surprised if someone attempts to be a hero by purchasing content that is for sale, recreating an exact duplicate, then giving it out for free.
 
There will undoubtedly be limits on how much a gifted creator will be able to charge for a level. I don't think the comparison between the art being sold on Deviantart and the levels on LBP is a fully valid one. On top of that, it is not like there will be absolutely nobody making free levels. Even if there were no limits, the only valid comparison between a LBP level and the $40 piece of "art", would be the complete lack of sales. It is not like we are somehow entitled to having every single level the community makes; if you want to pay for a level someone makes, do it, if not, don't.
 
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My guess is that it will all be free and after a few months they may release a bundle of levels for sale both on disc and through psn, commissioned from both the most popular level makers and possibly other game creators (ie. Kojima or Miyamoto - if Nintendo lets him).

If I were the marketing people every 4 months I would release a bundle (both psn and disc) with another 15 levels or so (with some big name producers or other celebrities each time) for $10. I would also bundle the new levels for free with the game at full retail to keep the game selling at $60, similar to the cod/oblivion goty packs.

If they release another 15 level disc for $10 every few months they'll be rolling in money, and it will pay the top level creators well too. Even if you pay 5 cents to each creator per level, selling 100,000 copies (not unreasonable at $10 if there is a big name on the front) between disc and download would mean $5,000 each to community creators.

Of course this will never happen.
 
Microchips are what they're calling the advance triggers for bosses/enemies right?
They haven't talked much about how you can program them.
 
It's the perfect competitor for LBP since they're for completely different markets. There would be very little overlap in people buying LBP or Deadspace, and when there is, those people would likely buy both.

Er, actually I'll probably buy both. :p
 
The weird thing is, you could recreate Space Invaders in LBP by having a sackboy push and pull a cart around with some kind of cannon on top that fires in intervals. Then program the AI brains on various blocky enemies to come swooping in and out on strings with their own little cannons shooting down.
 
[quote name='happy']I think LBP appeals to every market.[/QUOTE]

That's about as ridiculous as saying that Half-Life appeals to every market.
 
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