- LOCK - Format War - HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray - LOCK -

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[quote name='sying']Is it just me or does the PS3 have trouble with compression. I am running the PS3 at 1080i and Pearl Harbor AND The Departed both will skip a few frames when the bandwidth goes above 18Mgs ( you know the number on the top right when you press select during a movie). Help please?!?[/QUOTE]
I quote again!!! Myself no less.
 
[quote name='dallow']I have a DG1000 and can listen to both PCM (which MANY newish recievers can now do) and TrueHD tracks.

Don't call it on par if it isn't.

(Sony has a budget reciever and you can get PCM and TrueHD with your PS3 for only $199 or $299 (probably 299) if you want one on the cheap)[/quote]

ive said countless times that it IS on par sans support for hd audio. That is a limitation of the 360 itself. With the right sound card i could get hd audio via my pc.


You can not expect normal people to be hd audio ready yet. Most people are still just now getting into high definition in general.

Fact is that the addon is still the cheapest means to get into hd. Either way you can go wrong with either.

and for some reason im not suprised that you have a sony receiver. :)

i havent had my current 5.1 dd setup too long yet so i dont yet see the need to upgrade... but i may consider it if the right deal comes along. Honestly i much rather increase my tv size into the mid 40's range and have 1080p
 
Here comes the great cheaper hope.

Discount manufacturer Venturer Electronics today announced that it would release its first HD DVD player in time for this year's holiday shopping season.

The Canadian-based company, which is known for value-priced electronics, hasn't yet revealed a list price for the new disc player, but it's expected to be among the lowest priced of all entry-level HD DVD players yet to hit the market.

With Toshiba's HD-A2 retailing at under $250, and the Xbox 360 Add-on at under $179, it's a good bet that the Venturer player might break below the $150 mark.

Details on the new player were still sketchy at press time, but as you might expect at that price, the player does come with some trade-offs. According to a post on the company's web site, specs will include 1080i video output via HDMI and Dolby TrueHD support.

We'll keep you posted as more specs, pricing and a release date for this new player are revealed. Stay tuned!
Click to expand...
 
[quote name='guyver2077']ive said countless times that it IS on par sans support for hd audio. That is a limitation of the 360 itself. With the right sound card i could get hd audio via my pc.[/quote]You never said 'sans audio' in the post you made prior, which is why I talked about audio.


Seriously though, the only two positive things about the add on are the slightly cheaper price, and PC connectivity.

The rest is a hassle as Chris described.
 
[quote name='Sporadic']Here comes the great cheaper hope.[/quote]
Discount manufacturer Venturer Electronics today announced that it would release its first HD DVD player in time for this year's holiday shopping season.

The Canadian-based company, which is known for value-priced electronics, hasn't yet revealed a list price for the new disc player, but it's expected to be among the lowest priced of all entry-level HD DVD players yet to hit the market.

With Toshiba's HD-A2 retailing at under $250, and the Xbox 360 Add-on at under $179, it's a good bet that the Venturer player might break below the $150 mark.

Details on the new player were still sketchy at press time, but as you might expect at that price, the player does come with some trade-offs. According to a post on the company's web site, specs will include 1080i video output via HDMI and Dolby TrueHD support.

We'll keep you posted as more specs, pricing and a release date for this new player are revealed. Stay tuned!
Click to expand...

:applause: That's sick!
 
I am OFFICIALLY in the HD DVD crowd.

Just purchased the HDA2 on amazon, the 3 movies I chose were:

300
Batman Begins
Casino

Of course the player isn't scheduled to ship until October right now.........
 
[quote name='anomynous']I am OFFICIALLY in the HD DVD crowd.

Just purchased the HDA2 on amazon, the 3 movies I chose were:

300
Batman Begins
Casino

Of course the player isn't scheduled to ship until October right now.........[/quote]Wow, that much of a backlog?
 
[quote name='Sporadic']Here comes the great cheaper hope.[/QUOTE]

From who? Im still waiting for a HD DVD player from a reputable company besides Toshiba, not some Canadian company I have never heard of.
 
[quote name='rodeojones903']From who? Im still waiting for a HD DVD player from a reputable company besides Toshiba, not some Canadian company I have never heard of.[/quote]

well this is a great hope for all the really cheap "cheap asses".

Toshiba players are starting to reach ideal prices
 
wow 300 hd dvd ranked # 2 right now on amazon..
heroes still in top 10!

the a2 is ranked #1 in electronics

ps3 right behind it suprisingly

addon # 3

so any thoughts as to if amazon is making a killing with this deal or breaking even
 
[quote name='dallow']Wow, that much of a backlog?[/QUOTE]
Apparetly, but I expect to get it sometime in the middle of September, because it's amazon..........

Not to mention it's been going in & out of stock all of today
 
I think BDA needs to release a value Player without 1080p support like HD-DVD is doing if they want to compete. Although I think having a player that is only 200$ more that is completely future proof is a good thing, They need to compete better with prices and release a value player.

And Usually Amazon is very good in their shipping in my experiences, so they must have a lot of HD-A2 orders.
 
[quote name='rodeojones903']From who? Im still waiting for a HD DVD player from a reputable company besides Toshiba, not some Canadian company I have never heard of.[/QUOTE]

Onkyo's coming out with one but they are going to be fucking expensive.

Why not just grab a 360 add-on or a HD-A2?
 
[quote name='Sporadic']Onkyo's coming out with one but they are going to be fucking expensive.

Why not just grab a 360 add-on or a HD-A2?[/QUOTE]


I have an A2. I just don't like having only one manufacturer making the product. Its the same mistake sony make with beta. With almost ever other manufacturer making blu ray players (samsung, panasonic, sharp, pioneer) it worries me that we will only see cheap knock off and Toshiba players.
 
[quote name='rodeojones903']I have an A2. I just don't like having only one manufacture making the product. Its the same mistake sony make with beta. With almost ever other manufacturer making blu ray player (samsung, panasonic, sharp, pioneer) it worries me that we will only see cheap knock off and Toshiba players.[/QUOTE]

RCA had one too but it bombed.

Samsung is coming out with a combo player (that ironically enough is around the same price as the Onkyo HD-DVD player)

I wouldn't worry about it at the moment, we are still early in the game.
 
[quote name='rodeojones903']Thats because the only quality product RCA puts out any longer is over the air antennas. :D[/quote]I use a Terk (sp?) antenna now but it used to be all RCA, hehe. :)
 
[quote name='gsr']retail on the venturer is expected to be 149.99, according to email replies from venturer[/quote]Damn. That's just about a throwaway price for me.

Myke, willpower.... fading... fading... fa di ng
 
[quote name='H.Cornerstone']I think BDA needs to release a value Player without 1080p support like HD-DVD is doing if they want to compete. Although I think having a player that is only 200$ more that is completely future proof is a good thing, They need to compete better with prices and release a value player.[/quote]
You mean future proof except for PiP, BD-J, interactivity and network access?
 
[quote name='geko29']You mean future proof except for PiP, BD-J, interactivity and network access?[/quote]
I am sure a lot of people could care less about those things, as long as it plays the movie with the highest resolution possible and best audio possible, I think that is mostly what people care about. And IIRC, don't most player have a USB port so if you really wanted to you can download the updates on your computer and then transfer them to the player?

For example, my friend had a 360 HD-DVD add-on, and it worked fine when all he had was a 720p TV. However, he recently got a smoking deal on a Samsung 40inch 1080p TV and his TV is 1080p but the HD-DVD add-on only does 1080i. So while it's not a huge deal, Blu-ray's naturally look better through the PS3 because they are natively 1080p while his add-on is only natively 1080i.
 
[quote name='H.Cornerstone']For example, my friend had a 360 HD-DVD add-on, and it worked fine when all he had was a 720p TV. However, he recently got a smoking deal on a Samsung 40inch 1080p TV and his TV is 1080p but the HD-DVD add-on only does 1080i. So while it's not a huge deal, Blu-ray's naturally look better through the PS3 because they are natively 1080p while his add-on is only natively 1080i.[/quote]
It's not natively 1080i, per se, it's a limitation of the connection (component). If you hook component cables up to your PS3, you'll get the same thing. 1080p is only available through HDMI (obviously you'd need a recent 360) or VGA.

Additionally, if the TV has a halfway-decent deinterlacer, there's no difference between 1080i and 1080p. Unfortunately, the VAST majority don't, including my 37" 1080p LCD. However, reveiws of the Samsung 4096 (guessing that's what your friend got) say its deinterlacing and pulldown are good (and the newer 4065 has the HQV Reon, one of the best deinterlacers in the world), so I don't know why there would be a marked difference between HD and BR, even when one is 1080i. Perhaps a bit of a placebo effect?
 
[quote name='mykevermin']The 360 does 1080p over component (the console, at least, I dunno about the add-on).[/quote]
Sorry, I should have clarified. The console itself is fully capable of doing 1080p over component (mine was hooked up that way before I switched to VGA), and I suspect the PS3 is as well. But gaming at 1080p over component is no problem. The 1080i/component limitation is strictly for HD DVD movies and it's a DRM thing specified by AACS. Basically any AACS-encrypted content is limited to 1080i over any analog connection. For some reason VGA gets a pass because it's a "computer" connection.
 
I didn't think that kind of encryption had been enacted yet (primarily as a consequence of HDMI-enabled sets not being in the mainstream). So, much like claims of BR players being "not finished," HDTV sets find themselves in the same sort of "not quite future proof" boat a lot of the time.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']I didn't think that kind of encryption had been enacted yet (primarily as a consequence of HDMI-enabled sets not being in the mainstream). So, much like claims of BR players being "not finished," HDTV sets find themselves in the same sort of "not quite future proof" boat a lot of the time.[/quote] I think you're confusing AACS with ICT. Image Constraint Token (ICT) has in fact NOT been implemented by anyone (except for one title by one EXCEEDINGLY paranoid small studio in Europe). ICT-flagged content can not be output at ANY HD resolution via an unprotected connection (including VGA, if I'm not mistaken). It must be downrezzed to nothing higher than 540p (1/4 of 1080p), which will wind up being 480p in most cases.

AACS, on the other hand, limits unprotected output to the approved broadcast resolutions of 1080i and 720p. And VGA is of course exempt. AACS is used on pretty much all commercial HD DVD titles, and is required on every single BD-ROM disc as part of the Blu-Ray spec. Think of it as the HiDef version of CSS. CSS-protected DVDs are limited to 480p output on analog connections (on CSS-compliant players, of course).
 
[quote name='geko29']I think you're confusing AACS with ICT. Image Constraint Token (ICT) has in fact NOT been implemented by anyone (except for one title by one EXCEEDINGLY paranoid small studio in Europe). ICT-flagged content can not be output at ANY HD resolution via an unprotected connection (including VGA, if I'm not mistaken). It must be downrezzed to nothing higher than 540p (1/4 of 1080p), which will wind up being 480p in most cases.

AACS, on the other hand, limits unprotected output to the approved broadcast resolutions of 1080i and 720p. And VGA is of course exempt. AACS is used on pretty much all commercial HD DVD titles, and is required on every single BD-ROM disc as part of the Blu-Ray spec. Think of it as the HiDef version of CSS. CSS-protected DVDs are limited to 480p output on analog connections (on CSS-compliant players, of course).[/quote]
Well, he can play games 1080p over component, I.E component can do 1080p just most TV's won't accept the signal, but his will. And the TV he got was the LNT4042H. So what your saying is, the DVD forum won't allow 1080p over componenet so therefore that's why it can't be done, just like Upconverting of DVD's?

And I watched Hot Fuzz and Casino Royale on his TV, so maybe the fact that Casino was over HDMI made it look a little bit better?
 
[quote name='H.Cornerstone']Well, he can play games 1080p over component, I.E component can do 1080p just most TV's won't accept the signal, but his will.[/quote] I do believe I said gaming over component was not a problem:
[quote name='geko29']The console itself is fully capable of doing 1080p over component (mine was hooked up that way before I switched to VGA), and I suspect the PS3 is as well. But gaming at 1080p over component is no problem. The 1080i/component limitation is strictly for HD DVD/Blu-Ray movies and it's a DRM thing specified by AACS. Basically any AACS-encrypted content is limited to 1080i over any analog connection. For some reason VGA gets a pass because it's a "computer" connection.[/quote] :cool:

[quote name='H.Cornerstone']And the TV he got was the LNT4042H.[/quote] That's a 768p set, FYI.

[quote name='H.Cornerstone']So what your saying is, the DVD forum won't allow 1080p over componenet so therefore that's why it can't be done, just like Upconverting of DVD's?[/quote] In a roundabout way, yes. Both the DVD Forum and the BDA adopted the AACS standard and rules, which includes the "no resolution above 1080i on an analog connection rule". Almost no commercial HD DVDs (I believe Chronos and Nature's Journey are the only US titles without AACS) and absolutely no commercial Blu-Rays will play back at 1080p over component. As the gameplay proves, there's no technical limitation to prevent it, purely a political one.

[quote name='H.Cornerstone'] And I watched Hot Fuzz and Casino Royale on his TV, so maybe the fact that Casino was over HDMI made it look a little bit better?[/quote]Since the set is a lower-end model, it probably does not have a very good deinterlacer, so yes, a 1080p input SHOULD look significantly better (on horizontal pans, anyway) than a 1080i input.

But since it's a 768p set and hprobably doesn't have a very good scaler either, you'd get even better quality by setting the PS3/360 to output 1366x768 if there is such an option, or 720p if there isn't. I can practially guarantee you that the consoles will do a better job of scaling the movies than the TV will. And for games it'll be an even bigger difference, since most of them originate at 720p anyway. You avoid scaling up to 1080p (interpolating half the pixels) then scaling back down to 768p (throwing half of them away, but not necessarily the ones created during the upscale).
 
[quote name='H.Cornerstone']I am sure a lot of people could care less about those things, as long as it plays the movie with the highest resolution possible and best audio possible, I think that is mostly what people care about. And IIRC, don't most player have a USB port so if you really wanted to you can download the updates on your computer and then transfer them to the player?[/QUOTE]

Hold on, so the consumer doesn't give a shit about extras/interactivity but they care about getting 1080p video/uncompressed sound even though chances are they don't even have to equipment to take advantage of it?

[quote name='H.Cornerstone']For example, my friend had a 360 HD-DVD add-on, and it worked fine when all he had was a 720p TV. However, he recently got a smoking deal on a Samsung 40inch 1080p TV and his TV is 1080p but the HD-DVD add-on only does 1080i. So while it's not a huge deal, Blu-ray's naturally look better through the PS3 because they are natively 1080p while his add-on is only natively 1080i.[/QUOTE]

Tell him to hook it up via VGA cords (1080p) or trade his current console in for one with HDMI (also 1080p).
 
[quote name='Sporadic']Hold on, so the consumer doesn't give a shit about extras/interactivity but they care about getting 1080p video/uncompressed sound even though chances are they don't even have to equipment to take advantage of it?

[/QUOTE]

Actually, I've found, most people do not care about the extras. Why do you tink the majority of studios often release a CE for alot more money? Or why to the extra discs never get rented on things like Netflix? Fact is most people skip the "premium" version with all the features and the small amount who don't, well the studios know they'll fork over the extra dough for it. Only reviewers and movie nuts like me complain about lack of features, I don't think it bothers the everyday person.

As for the equipment factor, yes, that's exactly how the buying public works. Try selling this stuff sometime. People want what they are buying to do everything under sun, but most don't realize it's not all of use to them in their situaiton. Also, the majority only want all the trimmings for a cut rate price and aren't willing to pay more for it (see the expansion of inferior budget TVs over the years, even in the "highest resolution", 1080p). So then they set themselves into a price category rather than performance, and that's how they often end up with equipment that can't "take advantage of it". At least this is what I've seen from a while spent working in retail.
 
[quote name='geko29']I do believe I said gaming over component was not a problem:
:cool:

That's a 768p set, FYI.

In a roundabout way, yes. Both the DVD Forum and the BDA adopted the AACS standard and rules, which includes the "no resolution above 1080i on an analog connection rule". Almost no commercial HD DVDs (I believe Chronos and Nature's Journey are the only US titles without AACS) and absolutely no commercial Blu-Rays will play back at 1080p over component. As the gameplay proves, there's no technical limitation to prevent it, purely a political one.

Since the set is a lower-end model, it probably does not have a very good deinterlacer, so yes, a 1080p input SHOULD look significantly better (on horizontal pans, anyway) than a 1080i input.

But since it's a 768p set and hprobably doesn't have a very good scaler either, you'd get even better quality by setting the PS3/360 to output 1366x768 if there is such an option, or 720p if there isn't. I can practially guarantee you that the consoles will do a better job of scaling the movies than the TV will. And for games it'll be an even bigger difference, since most of them originate at 720p anyway. You avoid scaling up to 1080p (interpolating half the pixels) then scaling back down to 768p (throwing half of them away, but not necessarily the ones created during the upscale).[/quote]
Nope, its 1080p, I am certain. I just looked in the Circuit City AD (on-line) and they listed the wrong one, it's really the LN-T4061F.

and FYI, I Think people care about extra's but they aren't willing to spend more than them. My family, my friends and I personally HAVE never really looked at extra's. Also, if Extra's were so important, I think people with dual drives would have bought HD-DVD versions of 300 instead of Blu-ray, but I read a lot of people on forums just pay the 5$ less for the Blu-ray version. (Which has also bee counter-argued by people on this board why it sold more).

And I agree with Duo, When people drop triple digits for a piece of equipment, they want to know that it's the best. Like people who buy Plasmas. Do they know why they are better? No, they just know they are so they buy them.
 
[quote name='Sporadic']Hey look some stupid jackass is saying Blu-Ray is dead and buried.

http://www.technewsworld.com/story/...get-iTunes-Weakness-Product-of-the-Week.xhtml

When will people learn?

Both aren't going anywhere.

- edit Oh and look what else he said.



Now why the fuck aren't I an "analyst" or high movie exec? :lol: With every interview they seem to agree with me more and more ;)[/QUOTE]

So, because it isn't viable to some, we should just eliminate it? Makes no sense. Worst case scenario is that the extra space is in fact useless and doesn't get utilized. No harm done. Chances are, though, somewhere down the line, someone will find someway to make use of the extra space, which is what I was saying the whole time. Just because there are other options, doesn't mean we should limit ourselves.

Your whole argument against BD was that 'oh well, we can just compress it and fit it on something smaller, such as HD-DVD', which would've made sense, if BD wasn't able to, for some strange reason, handle compressed data.

I never said HDD wouldn't become cheaper and more viable, but arguing against another option IN ADDITION to HDDs just doesn't make sense. If you don't like using BD/HD for storage, don't use it. It's not like their success hinders the advancement of HDD in anyway, so I don't see yours (nor the analysts's) argument against it.

And calling the guy a 'stupid jackass', then later using that same article as backing for your argument isn't exactly the smartest thing.

EDIT: And I love this part:
Blu-ray's biggest advantage is storage Learn how SAN/iQ technology works with VMware. capacity; however, storage has grown so fast that you can get a 750 GB Seagate external drive for less than US$250.

To back that up on a 25 GB Blu-ray recorder would take 30 Blu-ray disks and more time than I think anyone in their right mind would accept. Neither HD-DVD nor Blu-ray are likely to become backup platforms, and most of the data we move still fits easily on a standard dual-layer DVD.
Click to expand...

He goes on to rant about how inconvenient BD/HD will be because of their 'limited' space (when compared to HDDs in 4-5 years time), yet he says the whole 9GBs of space DVDs have will be sufficient.
 
[quote name='H.Cornerstone']Nope, its 1080p, I am certain. I just looked in the Circuit City AD (on-line) and they listed the wrong one, it's really the LN-T4061F.[/quote]
Ok, fair enough. According to AVS, except for the high end models with the Reon, the Samsungs have the worst deinterlacers available (Worse than my Westinghouse?!?! :oops:). So you definitely want to feed it progressive when possible, and that explains why 1080p from the PS3 looked better than 1080i from the 360.
 
[quote name='H.Cornerstone']Nope, its 1080p, I am certain. I just looked in the Circuit City AD (on-line) and they listed the wrong one, it's really the LN-T4061F.

and FYI, I Think people care about extra's but they aren't willing to spend more than them. My family, my friends and I personally HAVE never really looked at extra's. Also, if Extra's were so important, I think people with dual drives would have bought HD-DVD versions of 300 instead of Blu-ray, but I read a lot of people on forums just pay the 5$ less for the Blu-ray version. (Which has also bee counter-argued by people on this board why it sold more).

And I agree with Duo, When people drop triple digits for a piece of equipment, they want to know that it's the best. Like people who buy Plasmas. Do they know why they are better? No, they just know they are so they buy them.[/QUOTE]

Well, that;s sort of what I meant but not exactly. Believe it or not most people are ignorant and afraid to buy a plasma TV. They stick to the things they read on the internet or in news reports from 3+ years ago (and even some of that is faulty info. I have people that come in almost on a daily basis trying to tell me how they worry about recharging a plasma or how plasmas last half as long as LCDs, etc. You'd think if people were going to bother to do research they look at some actual up to date stuff.

Regardless, I was more refering to somehting slightly different. I'll give a real life example. At my store we have regular sales, then on occasion either coupons, etc. The case being we can often stack these. Well about two weekends ago we had a coupon for a $150 off any Samsung FP TV and their 42" plasma on sale for $1300. A guy comes in wanting a flat panel, has space for nothing bigger than a 42" and is on a $1200 budget (so he said), perfect I think I can get him his max size TV for $50 below what he wanted to spend. WE talk about the differences between LCD and plasmas, the myths of plasmas, etc. for about 20 mins. He seems to be liking the TV alot raving about how nice the picture looks (I think it was ESPN Sunday night football). We even talked about what he watched, really big on sports, sits about 8 feet away, etc. The Sammy sounds perfect for this guy. I give him a handsahke and he goes to eat dinner with someone nextdoor at the restaurrant. Comes back about 2 hrs. Starts going on about how he wants 1080p because he's getting a PS3. The only 1080p set we have for his money is a 32" Sharp which is $1100. He wants it solely for the resolution. I do everything to change his mind that I can telling him that at 32" it won't matter, etc. He's not having it, wants the Sharp. After two tries I give up on him.

He was getting a TV that suited his needs better and was 10" larger for nearly the same price and a price that was in his budget (not to mention a better deal). Long story short, he was being a dumbass all because he believed something was the greatest, the "best" as he put it, when in his situation it was all but useless. He is alot like others too, it's not that they simply want the best, that I understand. But they want the best even though they can't actually see/use it, and in the end it may actually harm their cause more than help too.
 
:lol:[quote name='geko29']Ok, fair enough. According to AVS, except for the high end models with the Reon, the Samsungs have the worst deinterlacers available (Worse than my Westinghouse?!?! :oops:). So you definitely want to feed it progressive when possible, and that explains why 1080p from the PS3 looked better than 1080i from the 360.[/quote]

Hmm, thats shocking, usually Samsung's are awesome and give you all the best features.

And Duo, yeah, I could definetaly see someone doing that and I have seen it myself, however, I am a bit skeptical to buy any Plasma that is not a panasonic or Pioneer. Either way, LED LCD's will revolutionize TV's in the future. :D
 
The hotness. Cover art for BSG S1 on HD DVD.

BStarGalactica_S1_HDDVD.jpg


Oh, and some new shots of the Star Trek: TOS S1 HD DVD box.
 
[quote name='Duo_Maxwell']Actually, I've found, most people do not care about the extras. Why do you tink the majority of studios often release a CE for alot more money? Or why to the extra discs never get rented on things like Netflix? Fact is most people skip the "premium" version with all the features and the small amount who don't, well the studios know they'll fork over the extra dough for it. Only reviewers and movie nuts like me complain about lack of features, I don't think it bothers the everyday person. [/QUOTE]

I thought that's why people buy CEs? Studios see that adding some (usually) mundane feature or repackaging it makes people go out in droves to buy it. Even if it's a sub-7 dollar DVD like Office Space.

Extra disc don't get rented on Netflix because they aren't buying it. Put somebody against a bare-bones for 10 and some metal monstrosity for 15 and most people I know will go for the metal thing because "hey it's only five dollars more and I get 10 hours of extra footage :bouncy: "

[quote name='Duo_Maxwell']As for the equipment factor, yes, that's exactly how the buying public works. Try selling this stuff sometime. People want what they are buying to do everything under sun, but most don't realize it's not all of use to them in their situaiton. Also, the majority only want all the trimmings for a cut rate price and aren't willing to pay more for it (see the expansion of inferior budget TVs over the years, even in the "highest resolution", 1080p). So then they set themselves into a price category rather than performance, and that's how they often end up with equipment that can't "take advantage of it". At least this is what I've seen from a while spent working in retail.[/QUOTE]

Trust me, I know all about that.

My brother is your typical preppy guy and I get phone calls all the time where I have to talk him out of buying some piece of shit (Sporadic it's a 42" plasma for $900...who cares if it's some weird sub-720 resolution. IT'S FLAT AND CAN GO ON A WALL!!!) or pleading with him to use torrents instead of Limewire/Kazaa because I don't want to clean/wipe his computer for the 15th time.

[quote name='dpatel']
And calling the guy a 'stupid jackass', then later using that same article as backing for your argument isn't exactly the smartest thing.[/QUOTE]

Winky smiley = just joking
 
The IFA was today and http://www.blu-ray.com/ has lots of articles about things announced at the show. Most of what has been announced so far is just new players and specs for new releases, which most will have BD-J support.

SPHE Eclipses 250K Units in Europe; Nears 1M in US

Sony Pictures Home Entertainment has announced that Blu-ray disc sales from the company have eclipsed 250,000 units in Europe and are nearing the 1,000,000 mark in the US. In Europe, similar to the US, Blu-ray is outselling HD DVD by a rate of 2:1 and continues to be the dominate high definition format.

Wow.... I wonder what movies they had that sold so much. Black Hawk Down and CAsino Royale must have sold a ton. And Don't say "well they gave away Casino Royale" because they gave away 500,000 copies of those so clearly they didn't count those.

Also: http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=458

Alticast Demonstrates BD-Java Software

Posted August 31, 2007 by Josh

IFA Alticast has announced the availability of AltiCaptor Blu-ray Disc Java, software that, when combined with the Broadcom's BCM7440 single chip Blu-ray hardware, provides one of the most advanced Blu-ray platforms on the market today. Alticast will be demonstrating the application at their both at IFA beginning today.

Peter Besen, Vice President of Broadcom's Consumer Electronics line of business commented, "The Alticast Blu-ray Disc Java solution coupled with our BCM7440 single chip platform provides world class BDJ performance. Manufacturers can now quickly develop a high performance Blu-ray player using our full turnkey solution.

I think this could put to rest the rumors of BD-J problems.

http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=459
Blu-ray Dominates HD Sales

Posted August 31, 2007 by Josh

Blu-ray Disc New data from Home Media Research shows that Blu-ray is continuing to lead in high definition media sales. As of August 5th, the top 10 best selling high definition movies are all available on Blu-ray, and half of those exclusive to the format. Warner Brother's '300' leads the pack, followed by 'The Departed', 'Casino Royale', 'Planet Earth', and 'Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest'.

Noticeably absent from the list is Universal who didn't have a title which sold enough copies break into the top 20. Paramount made it to 17th with their release of 'Babel', but if there wasn't a Blu-ray version of the title, it would have fall well short making the list. All Blu-ray studios were represented in the Top 20 (including Lionsgate with their release of 'Crank').

Ouch for Universal, I can't see how General Eletric and Vivendi would allow them to continue to lose so much money. Also, kind of shocking to see that Batman Begins and the Matrix didn't sell that many. And Warner Bros is right, their strategy appears to be the best.

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/s...orting_Studios_Respond_to_Payoff_Question/919
"Ultimately, execs from Warner Bros, Fox, MGM and Sony all denied having accepted financial incentives from the BDA, while Disney's European Marketing VP responded with a "no comment."

Hmm, don't understand why the Disney person would say something like that instead of flat out denying it. Unless Disney was given fininacial incentives, but I have never read of any reports indicating that.
 
On the other side of the fence.

HD DVD Day at IFA 2007
Fri Aug 31, 2007 at 02:41 PM ET

It was the HD DVD camp's turn in the spotlight today at IFA (the European consumer electronics trade fair), with several HD DVD supporting companies speaking out at a well-attended press conference.

While yesterday's BDA press conference was heavy on new hardware announcements for the European market, the HD DVD camp took a decidely different approach, focusing less on new products and more on what its backers see as the format's advantages over Blu-ray.


The centerpiece of the presentation was a brief appearance by Chris Saito of Paramount, the company that famously shook up the high-def format earlier this month when it announced it would drop support of Blu-ray, and would instead exclusively back HD DVD.

Saito said that his company's decision came after a year's worth of evaluation, and was based on the format being the best value not only to consumers, but to Paramount as well, in terms of cost of replication.

Other speakers at the comference emphasized the format's "ever growing list of worldwide supporters," its affordability, its lead in stand-alone player sales, and its higher attach rates, (4 discs per player, 7 times that of BD).

"The HD format is about stand-alone players, not game systems. We don’t think gamers will buy movies," said HD DVD Promo Group co-chairman Ken Graffeo.

In a direct dig at the BDA, Graffeo pointed to the HD DVD group's mandatory interactive specs, stating that all HD DVD players are required to support the format's advanced interactive features. "Sadly, that's not the case with Blu-ray," said Graffeo. "Many Blu-ray owners will only get advanced features if they buy the next-generation players".

Other highlights from the session:

90 new HD DVD titles will be released between now and the end of 2007, bringing the European total to 400 by the end of the year.

Toshiba will roll out two new HD DVD players to the European market in October, the 1080p/24 HD-EP30 (349-399 euro) and the higher-end HD-EP35 (449-499 euro).

The HD DVD Promo Group's "Five Discs Free" promotion with sales of new HD DVD players will be extended to Europe.
Click to expand...
 
[quote name='H.Cornerstone']Blu-ray Disc New data from Home Media Research shows that Blu-ray is continuing to lead in high definition media sales. As of August 5th, the top 10 best selling high definition movies are all available on Blu-ray, and half of those exclusive to the format. Warner Brother's '300' leads the pack, followed by 'The Departed', 'Casino Royale', 'Planet Earth', and 'Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest'.

Noticeably absent from the list is Universal who didn't have a title which sold enough copies break into the top 20. Paramount made it to 17th with their release of 'Babel', but if there wasn't a Blu-ray version of the title, it would have fall well short making the list. All Blu-ray studios were represented in the Top 20 (including Lionsgate with their release of 'Crank').[/QUOTE]

HD DVD's response of "we're focusing on movie players" is not only 100% absurd in the face of this data (which also show what an inconsequential move the Paramount deal is, in addition to the near-irrelevance of Universal's exclusivity), but it's a slap in the face of 50% of people who own HD DVD players (those of you who own the Xbox 360 add-on drive make up 1 out of every 2 HD DVD player sales).

A major faux pas by a major league asshole. He might as well have told all you 360 add-on owners to suck his dick.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']HD DVD's response of "we're focusing on movie players" is not only 100% absurd in the face of this data (which also show what an inconsequential move the Paramount deal is, in addition to the near-irrelevance of Universal's exclusivity), but it's a slap in the face of 50% of people who own HD DVD players (those of you who own the Xbox 360 add-on drive make up 1 out of every 2 HD DVD player sales).

A major faux pas by a major league asshole. He might as well have told all you 360 add-on owners to suck his dick.[/quote]
I agree, he's just trying to spin doctor the news to something good for his company, something htat Sony is criticized for doing non-stop for the PS3. Either way, The sales advantages Blu-ray is astounding, especially in Europe. And your right, what about all those people who have 360 add-ons? And Gamers don't buy movies? The how does he propose that Blu-ray is totally kicking HD-DVD's ass in movie sales? My favorite thing is the HD-DVD camp keeps advertising and touting cheaper production of HD-DVD, yet BLu-ray movies are cheaper.....
 
I can understand your claim that it is spin about gamers not buying movies, but I think you are failing to see his jaded point. The attach rate of movies sold compared to players in the market is much better on the hd dvd side of things. With the ps3, the amount of blu ray players is a lot larger then the hd dvd players out there. If he was wrong, then blu ray would be winning the attach rate as well. IMO, you really can't look at attach rate and get the whole picture though due to the amount of blu ray players in the market. I look at his statement and take it with a grain of salt, as there is some truth to his comments, but it it isn't 100% accurate. As for kicking hd ass in sales, I find that hard to believe. It is only 2:1 and you have to look at the amount of players in the market. Considering dvd is bitch slapping both formats combined into the ground, I find it hard to be praising either side.
 
[quote name='ryanbph']I can understand your claim that it is spin about gamers not buying movies, but I think you are failing to see his jaded point. The attach rate of movies sold compared to players in the market is much better on the hd dvd side of things. With the ps3, the amount of blu ray players is a lot larger then the hd dvd players out there. If he was wrong, then blu ray would be winning the attach rate as well. IMO, you really can't look at attach rate and get the whole picture though due to the amount of blu ray players in the market. I look at his statement and take it with a grain of salt, as there is some truth to his comments, but it it isn't 100% accurate. As for kicking hd ass in sales, I find that hard to believe. It is only 2:1 and you have to look at the amount of players in the market. Considering dvd is bitch slapping both formats combined into the ground, I find it hard to be praising either side.[/QUOTE]

There's a valid point in here (and it isn't about attach ratio, which is overvalued, given we all agree that hidef disc sales are tiny, since they just recently surpassed VHfuckingS); not all PS3 owners know they have a BR player, and not all of those who know use it. That's Sony's shortcoming - had they included a copy of "Talladega Nights" in the box, or something similar (say, Spiderman 3 come Christmas time), then they'd make much larger sales. Nothing says "lookit what your new $500 box can play!" than including a BR disc in the box.

If Sony can convert a higher percentage of PS3 buyers to BR buyers, than HD DVD is royally fucked. 4 million plus BR players versus 300K HD DVD? (and half of those HD DVD owners are "gamers" :rofl:) It should have been over by now. Sony should realize they can eat a couple million by including a BR movie in *every* box, thereby increasing their sales overall.
 
[quote name='H.Cornerstone']My favorite thing is the HD-DVD camp keeps advertising and touting cheaper production of HD-DVD, yet BLu-ray movies are cheaper.....[/quote] That's not true. There are 47 HD DVD titles currently available with MSRPs of ~$40. There are 90 Blu-Rays at that price.

If you expand that to include all titles over $35 (boxsets, etc), the numbers rise to 57 HD DVDs vs. 95 Blu-Rays. An additional 57 Blu-Rays are between $30-35, vs. just 31 HD DVDs. That's 88 HD DVDs over $30, vs 152 Blu-Rays.

No matter how you slice it, it boils down to twice as many pricey BDs compared to HDs, despite the same number of titles on both formats, and more boxsets being available on HD DVD. Furthermore, close to 20 of the $40 HD DVDs are being reissued as cheaper non-combos. This will skew the numbers even further.

And remind me again which format is the only one with an announced (single) non-limited-edition title priced in excess of $40?
 
[quote name='geko29']That's not true. There are 47 HD DVD titles currently available with MSRPs of ~$40. There are 90 Blu-Rays at that price.

If you expand that to include all titles over $35 (boxsets, etc), the numbers rise to 57 HD DVDs vs. 95 Blu-Rays. An additional 57 Blu-Rays are between $30-35, vs. just 31 HD DVDs. That's 88 HD DVDs over $30, vs 152 Blu-Rays.

No matter how you slice it, it boils down to twice as many pricey BDs compared to HDs, despite the same number of titles on both formats, and more boxsets being available on HD DVD. Furthermore, close to 20 of the $40 HD DVDs are being reissued as cheaper non-combos. This will skew the numbers even further.

And remind me again which format is the only one with an announced (single) non-limited-edition title priced in excess of $40?[/quote]Why/how do you know so much about this?
Just curious.
 
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