- LOCK - Format War - HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray - LOCK -

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[quote name='dallow']Here's to Joe Six Pack picking up the A2 and then buying $5 DVDs to watch them in HD.

If all BD has to do is win in software.
Mission freaking accomplished.[/quote]

I'm pretty sure Walmart is making this a big deal, specially advertising a select group of titles for $14.87. I'm pretty sure that they will have the titles next to the HD DVD players. After all it started as a "Secret" sale but it will be a Madness sale!!!!:booty:
 
[quote name='guyver2077']all i know is that the software selection sucked balls at my walmart....

i dont think any of the "Sale" movies were even there..[/QUOTE]
They could be holding them back for the sale.

I know when I worked at CC, we used to do that.
 
[quote name='zewone']They could be holding them back for the sale.

I know when I worked at CC, we used to do that.[/quote]

Ditto, for when I worked at BBy
 
[quote name='LinkinPrime']Some good news from Warner for the Red team:
According to this "source" Warner's stance on High Def will be decided with Walmart's sales...

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/film/news/e3ic868cb7073298c93e702dbdc92804c43[/QUOTE]

I'm not convinced that Warner is really wavering on neutral versus HD DVD, as you imply. I do believe that this is a last ditch effort to get HD DVD sales up to snuff with Blu-Ray, and if they fail, Warner will ditch them like a bad habit.

Y'all HD DVD cats keep ignoring the 2:1 sales advantage that BR has, and Warner profits from, and seem to suggest that Warner looks at HD DVD and Blu-Ray as potential spouses, considering the former the emotional favorite and Blu-Ray as the pragmatic choice.

Let me be quite clear: HD DVD ain't Mary Stuary Masterson, Blu-Ray ain't Jennifer Lea, and this ain't Some Kind of Wonderful. HD DVD has to start making more money for Warner, as that's about the only thing it's motivated by. And, in order for Warner to really go HD exclusive, they have to catch up to Blu-Ray's sales (which involved the unenviable task of *doubling* HD DVD sales), as well as surpassing BR sales (which involves the even more unenviable and pretty bloody unlikely by the end of this holiday season) task of *surpassing* Blu-Ray sales. If you think that's possible, then I got a bridge to sell ya.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']I'm not convinced that Warner is really wavering on neutral versus HD DVD, as you imply. I do believe that this is a last ditch effort to get HD DVD sales up to snuff with Blu-Ray, and if they fail, Warner will ditch them like a bad habit.

Y'all HD DVD cats keep ignoring the 2:1 sales advantage that BR has, and Warner profits from, and seem to suggest that Warner looks at HD DVD and Blu-Ray as potential spouses, considering the former the emotional favorite and Blu-Ray as the pragmatic choice.

Let me be quite clear: HD DVD ain't Mary Stuary Masterson, Blu-Ray ain't Jennifer Lea, and this ain't Some Kind of Wonderful. HD DVD has to start making more money for Warner, as that's about the only thing it's motivated by. And, in order for Warner to really go HD exclusive, they have to catch up to Blu-Ray's sales (which involved the unenviable task of *doubling* HD DVD sales), as well as surpassing BR sales (which involves the even more unenviable and pretty bloody unlikely by the end of this holiday season) task of *surpassing* Blu-Ray sales. If you think that's possible, then I got a bridge to sell ya.[/QUOTE]

Where's the bridge? It's less of a battle then one might think Myke. HD DVD has a smaller gap to bridge in standalone sales to really bring up their # given the attach rate of HD DVD over BR. PS3 on the other hand has very little dynamite exclusive product to sell gamewise to really drive sales.
 
[quote name='Sarang01']Where's the bridge? It's less of a battle then one might think Myke. HD DVD has a smaller gap to bridge in standalone sales to really bring up their # given the attach rate of HD DVD over BR.[/quote]

Based on the incorrect assumption that attach rates are static, sure. Do you really think that people who didn't buy an HD DVD player until it was under $100 are going to buy bundles of $25-30 movies between now and the Holidays? Moreover, how is Toshiba going to move its other players now? Once the A2 is no longer available at $100, and until the BF $170 A3 sale, the average consumer won't buy something they know was already available for $100+ less. See Gizmo's logic on holding out on Sony/Disney new releases for a parallel.

PS3 on the other hand has very little dynamite exclusive product to sell gamewise to really drive sales.
Click to expand...

If you truly believe that, you're looking to not see any exclusives. Nothing I can do will convince you that the PS3 doesn't "have noe gamez!!!1!," so I'm not going to bother. Your vested interest in convincing yourself that the PS3 has no worthwhile exclusives belie you. Meanwhile, I look forward to the time I'll have to play Ratchet and Clank, Eye of Judgment, and Uncharted between now and Christmas (let alone the games I already own).
 
Those exclusives aren't for everyone.

I'm only slightly interested in EoJ (I've never heard any one of friends mention it) and could care less about about any of the other exclusives until LBP and MGS4.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Based on the incorrect assumption that attach rates are static, sure. Do you really think that people who didn't buy an HD DVD player until it was under $100 are going to buy bundles of $25-30 movies between now and the Holidays?...[/quote]

Definately, why buy an HD DVD player if you have no intention to use it. Consumers who purchase an HD DVD player, are purchasing it for the HD DVD's with the bonus of upscaling DVD's.

Think of it this way, a few weeks down the road, they want to pick up Transformers, will the newly HD DVD consumer spend $15-20 on the DVD version, when he/she knows how much more satisfying an HD DVD film is? No, that consumer will be willing to shell out a few more bucks to get the full experience that they paid for. I know that my opinion here is just that, but the numbers will tell the truth.
 
All 60k will be sold.

Even if they are returned by idiots who don't know you need an HDTV, informed people will snatch up the open box ones.
 
[quote name='zewone']All 60k will be sold.

Even if they are returned by idiots who don't know you need an HDTV, informed people will snatch up the open box ones.[/QUOTE]


Yes, 60k will be sold but what after that? I don't think walmart will be getting more of a discontinued item. 60k is not that much.
 
Nevertheless, even if 60Ks have the same attach rate seen thus far, that's a couple hundred thousand discs. A far cry from the 1.2 (give or take) million HD DVDs that need to be sold to achieve parity with Blu-Ray. And, keep in mind, that's under the impression that not a single BR disc is sold for the rest of the year (which, keeping their lineup in mind, is absurd).

BR will easily surpass 3 million discs by 12/31. Can HD DVD?
 
Not sure if this was posted, but some good news for those who were looking to pick up the A2.
[quote name='alexandertyler']Might want to add this to the first post OP:

Firmware Update Information for Owners of Toshiba HD DVD Players: Models HD-XA2, HD-A20, HD-A2, HD-A2W, and HD-D2

http://www.tacp.toshiba.com/tacpassets-images/notices/hddvd2firmware.asp

Basically, this firmware update adds support for 1080p/24Hz output to the HD-A20 and HD-XA2 players. For the HD-A2, HD-A2W, HD-D2, HD-A20 and HD-XA2 players, it adds more on-screen language display options. In addition, this firmware update improves network connectivity for supporting the download of web- enabled network content associated with certain HD DVD discs, and also addresses certain disc playback and HDMI/DVI related issues identified by Toshiba.

So basically, a FULL 1080p HD-DVD player for LESS THAN $100.00!!!


Please Enjoy!

Alex[/QUOTE]
 
[quote name='mykevermin']

BR will easily surpass 3 million discs by 12/31. Can HD DVD?[/QUOTE]

The first step is to give them away in the same manner that Blu-Ray has .
I'd imagine that there will be some BOGO sales soon .
 
[quote name='Richlough']The first step is to give them away in the same manner that Blu-Ray has .
I'd imagine that there will be some BOGO sales soon .[/QUOTE]

FTW!
 
[quote name='H.Cornerstone']One week of BOGO = giving them away?[/QUOTE]

They're just mad they didn't win Transformers week, and have to settle for winning zero out of 52 weeks this year, all the while still thinking HD DVD has a chance of surviving.
 
[quote name='LinkinPrime']Definately, why buy an HD DVD player if you have no intention to use it. Consumers who purchase an HD DVD player, are purchasing it for the HD DVD's with the bonus of upscaling DVD's.

Think of it this way, a few weeks down the road, they want to pick up Transformers, will the newly HD DVD consumer spend $15-20 on the DVD version, when he/she knows how much more satisfying an HD DVD film is? No, that consumer will be willing to shell out a few more bucks to get the full experience that they paid for. I know that my opinion here is just that, but the numbers will tell the truth.[/QUOTE]


No one spending 100 dollars on an HD player is going to snatch up movies like crazy. I would be shocked if the attach rate for people buying the players and movies is greater than 2 or 3 (and those will all be the 15 dollar movies). Also I bet a lot of people who know about this sale are buying a second player rather than a first.

I don't know about you, but I still find 30 dollars for a movie hard to swallow.
 
[quote name='H.Cornerstone']One week of BOGO = giving them away?[/QUOTE]

One week?

The BDA has done several BOGOs over the course of a few months. Its about every 3 weeks they have one. That includes nearly all the titles before that you claimed were never "BOGO" a few weeks ago.
 
[quote name='GizmoGC']One week?

The BDA has done several BOGOs over the course of a few months. Its about every 3 weeks they have one. That includes nearly all the titles before that you claimed were never "BOGO" a few weeks ago.[/quote]
Now, are these Store chocies or the BDA choice? And just because Blu-ray is smart enough to realize people won't by movies unless they are DVD prices doesn't mean they are stupid or giving them away. Two movies for 30-35$ is still a good chunk of money.

And that's just select titles. 300 and Departed, the top two selling titles on the HI-def format, were never part of a BOGO, and yet somehow, 300 on blu-ray STILL outsold HD-DVD by 2-1 on that one.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Not necessarily. HD DVD is fighting for survival, but when the only format-neutral studio is hinting around that they're not looking to remain that way past the holidays, as Warner did this week...well, I don't think it bodes well for there being two formats. Then again, perhaps it depends on whether or not Warner goes HD or Blu. HD DVD couldn't possibly survive with just Paramount and Universal, no matter their catalogs.

Hmm. Looks like Gizmo was whipping up completely baseless and fabricated facts while I slept. Interesting. I didn't know it was Sony's fault that 3rd party BR manufacturers were being outpriced. I could have sworn that there's another, smaller, weaker, inferior format out there that's having a fire-sale on their older technology...the kind of fire sale that was making HD DVD kids swoon like Scarlett O'Hara in the arms of Rhett Butler. But, hey...I suppose Abu Ghraib was somehow Sony's fault too. I guess I need to think about that more.[/QUOTE]

HD DVD is fighting for survival? HD DVD has more stand alones sold and has a better ratio per player. The only thing Blu-ray has over HD DVD is 10x the amount of "possible" players on the market and a 1.2 Million disc head start.
Yeah, I know you don't see things like more stand alones sold and ratios per player, but apparently thats what Warner is looking for in Q4. Can Blu-ray pull it through? Maybe. But after tomorrow HD DVD will gain another 10-15% new HD DVD owners that WILL buy discs vs. a format being held together by the "Gamecube" of this generation, the PS3 with its paltry 40% that actually know its a Blu-ray player and 20% that actually buy movies for it. How long will that last?

Buy don't worry, the savior, crippled PS3 is here...packed with Spider-Man 3!

I couldn't find an A2 at ANY store today, that includes 3 Best Buys, 2 Wal-Marts, 2 Circuit Citys and a Sears. Hell, Best Buy is sold out nearly across America within hours. Tomorrow, Wal-Mart will sell 60k+ A2s with more to come I'm sure.
 
[quote name='H.Cornerstone']Now, are these Store chocies or the BDA choice? And just because Blu-ray is smart enough to realize people won't by movies unless they are DVD prices doesn't mean they are stupid or giving them away. Two movies for 30-35$ is still a good chunk of money.

And that's just select titles. 300 and Departed, the top two selling titles on the HI-def format, were never part of a BOGO, and yet somehow, 300 on blu-ray STILL outsold HD-DVD by 2-1 on that one.[/QUOTE]

BDA choices for every one of them. Notice its usually the same bunch of titles with 2-5 new ones added in from Sony/Disney. Having prices for a new format like Blu-ray that are lowered then DVD costs is not a sound idea. I'm already conditioned to wait on any Sony/Disney title as a BOGO is sure to come up. I'm not the only one either.

Yes, 300 and The Departed outsold HD DVD. Congrats. HD DVD is also $5 more, and 300 is being packed in with all current HD DVD players...who the hell would buy a copy when its free :roll: We won't even go into how 300 is aimed at the PS3 demographic, hell, WARNER even said so.
 
[quote name='GizmoGC']BDA choices for every one of them. Notice its usually the same bunch of titles with 2-5 new ones added in from Sony/Disney. Having prices for a new format like Blu-ray that are lowered then DVD costs is not a sound idea. I'm already conditioned to wait on any Sony/Disney title as a BOGO is sure to come up. I'm not the only one either.

Yes, 300 and The Departed outsold HD DVD. Congrats. HD DVD is also $5 more, and 300 is being packed in with all current HD DVD players...who the hell would buy a copy when its free :roll: We won't even go into how 300 is aimed at the PS3 demographic, hell, WARNER even said so.[/quote]
300 was still oustold 2-1 in it's launch week, and how else to you explain 17 of the top 20 titles being a blu-ray? BOGO?

And getting HD-DVD players to near dvd player prices is a sound idea but getting movies to teh same level isn't? hmmm.....

Yada yada yada, "HD-DVD has more stand alones and a higher attach rate" Well, the Blu-ray has more possible playeras and twice the amount of software sold. Yeah, I would say they are fighting for their lives.
 
[quote name='GizmoGC']HD DVD is fighting for survival? HD DVD has more stand alones sold and has a better ratio per player. The only thing Blu-ray has over HD DVD is 10x the amount of "possible" players on the market and a 1.2 Million disc head start.
Yeah, I know you don't see things like more stand alones sold and ratios per player, but apparently thats what Warner is looking for in Q4. Can Blu-ray pull it through? Maybe. But after tomorrow HD DVD will gain another 10-15% new HD DVD owners that WILL buy discs vs. a format being held together by the "Gamecube" of this generation, the PS3 with its paltry 40% that actually know its a Blu-ray player and 20% that actually buy movies for it. How long will that last?[/quote]

Your flippant disregard for that 1.2 million advantage (it would be a "head start" had BR not been launched 5 months after HD DVD!) exposes your true bias, and points out, yet again, that you aren't really worth responding to.

Buy don't worry, the savior, crippled PS3 is here...packed with Spider-Man 3!

I couldn't find an A2 at ANY store today, that includes 3 Best Buys, 2 Wal-Marts, 2 Circuit Citys and a Sears. Hell, Best Buy is sold out nearly across America within hours. Tomorrow, Wal-Mart will sell 60k+ A2s with more to come I'm sure.
Click to expand...

There are 5,000 WM in the nation. If we are to believe that ONLY WM received the remaining 60K A2s, that's 12 per store. Since that is not the case, each store has far fewer than 12 - you act like the public is fistfighting over the system, when the reality is that each store just has very few. Kinda like "Eye of Judgment."
 
i might as well add a little bit to this "discussion"

when i went to Best Buy tonight to pick up my A2 i went to pick out my 2 free movies and i had one hell of a time finding a second movie that i actually wanted (i try not to waste freebies with the movies that usually end up being part of the BOGO sales)...

as i am looking and after i already picked Transformers, i must have looked at the section 3 times before finally spotting a copy of Face/off but during my searching i would glance over to the Blu-ray section and actually see multiple titles that jumped out at me that i would have had no hesitation in picking.

Originally i owned HD then i jumped onto Blu-ray ( i had sold my original add-on) after coming across a cheap PS3 and have been happy till of course Paramount went HD exclusive and Transformers in HD was out of my grasp.

Of Course now with the Add-on deal last week and the A2 dropping to $99 i find myself owning HD-DVD again and am actually happy since i can enjoy Transformers, Matrix, etc. I cant help to think of this as a move of desperation on HD-DVD's part, i really dont know the details behind the scenes but to me it just seems that Blu-ray is fully in control when looking at the selections and displays in various stores.
 
BTW, Gizmo, do you honestly think all these people buying the 99$ players are the top of hi-def fanatics that are going to buy movies in droves? If that happens, there goes your attach rate argument.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']C'mon - The Big Lebowski.

If I were to have bought an A2 during the sale, I would have called it my "Big Lebowski player."[/quote]

lol

i should be able to pick that up tomorrow at walmart for $15
 
[quote name='mykevermin']There are 5,000 WM in the nation. If we are to believe that ONLY WM received the remaining 60K A2s, that's 12 per store. Since that is not the case, each store has far fewer than 12 - you act like the public is fistfighting over the system, when the reality is that each store just has very few. Kinda like "Eye of Judgment."[/QUOTE]

Actually, the WM site says that each store will have a minimum of 10.
 
[quote name='orimental']Actually, the WM site says that each store will have a minimum of 10.[/QUOTE]

With a "where available" caveat, which isn't necessarily linked to the excluded states' stores.
 
:) at the statement about BD having such a huge software lead because of BOGO.

It was only about 3 times this year that happened, maybe 4.
And all but the most recent one was a Frys only thing.

Frys basically lowered prices on select titles to 9.99.
They did the same for HD DVD but for some reason they were 14.95.

I went to a Walmart tonight as my cat was dying for some wet food.
They had the A3 and Sammy BD player out in full force.

They had a BD movie section and none for HD DVD.
Even if they were holding back the titles for the sale in the morning, where are the rest of the non-sale titles?

Oh well. Nice cheap pickup if you need one.
 
I have my 360 HD-DVD player going through my component cable. Would a regular HD-DVD player have better visuals going through my TV's DVI? Any help would be appreciated.
 
[quote name='Dante Devil']I have my 360 HD-DVD player going through my component cable. Would a regular HD-DVD player have better visuals going through my TV's DVI? Any help would be appreciated.[/quote]Probably a more consistent image quality.
Component, as any analog cable, can be affected by outside forces.

DVI and HDMI are straight digital.
 
[quote name='H.Cornerstone']BTW, Gizmo, do you honestly think all these people buying the 99$ players are the top of hi-def fanatics that are going to buy movies in droves? If that happens, there goes your attach rate argument.[/QUOTE]

I would argue the average PS3 owner would be worse. The A2's are being bought expressely to watch movies unlike the PS3.
 
scored the a2... cant beat the price...i can always sell it to someone if i see a huge dif in pq quality.

also picked up faceoff...

They limited 1 to customer.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']:lol: Is anyone buying the A2 who doesn't already own an HD DVD player?[/quote]

i definitely saw a lot of ppl jumping all over them...
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Your flippant disregard for that 1.2 million advantage (it would be a "head start" had BR not been launched 5 months after HD DVD!) exposes your true bias, and points out, yet again, that you aren't really worth responding to.[/quote]
1 month. We've been over this before. :) Since you keep forgetting :)lol:), it's April 18th for HD DVD, May 23rd for Blu-Ray.

[quote name='mykevermin'] There are 5,000 WM in the nation. If we are to believe that ONLY WM received the remaining 60K A2s, that's 12 per store. Since that is not the case, each store has far fewer than 12 - you act like the public is fistfighting over the system, when the reality is that each store just has very few. Kinda like "Eye of Judgment."[/quote]
The 5,000 number includes Sam's clubs and WM stores that sell ONLY groceries. The actual number of Wal-Marts is closer to 3,500. And here's how many A2s many of them got:
Untitled-1.jpg

Not sure where the "remaining 60k" idea came from. Both Toshiba and Wal-Mart publically stated that they have an unlimited supply of A2s. Best estimates for the number available for $98 today is ~100k. But there will likely be more.
 
[quote name='Sarang01']What are the movies?[/quote]

they had a few on sale but atleast my store didnt really have them on display..

hopefully most stores were smart enough to put a display and/or move all their movies next to the players
 
[quote name='orimental']Actually, the WM site says that each store will have a minimum of 10.[/QUOTE]

The store I went to today had 30 .
 
My store had a split display with HD on the right and Blu on the left. I was suprised to see that the prices on them were fairly consistent with what you would find at an online retailer. That being said, they had a real shitty selection.
 
I went this morning around 5:30 and they wouldn't sell me one till 8. Going back later, but not sure if I will get one since news of this is all over the place.
 
Still doesn't matter, but K-Mart denies going only HD DVD.

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Kmart/Kmart:_Were_Purple/1137

There have been numerous statements in the media today, attributed to Toshiba, indicating exclusive support for the HD DVD format in Kmart stores. These statements are false. Kmart intends to support both the HD DVD and Blu-ray platforms, and has no plans to support either platform exclusively.
Click to expand...
 
I agree that it doesn't matter (K-mart B&M being only SLIGHTLY more important overall than Meijer.com --both are
 
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