- LOCK - Format War - HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray - LOCK -

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[quote name='geko29']Good point sir, good point. :) But I was actually referring to the war starting in May, but Sony not admitting it had started until the PS3 came out six months later.

The PS3 is an impressive piece of tech, no question about that. I have a few nagging complaints (fan noise, no IR, no advanced codec bitstreaming, doesn't autoplay when F@H is running and a disc is inserted), but all in all I'm very pleased with it, and given the profile situation, I wouldn't have any other Blu-Ray player this early in the game.

And yes, I am just that sold on HD DVD. :D[/QUOTE]


If you own a PS3.. why are you using HD DVD...

IR I can't argue your point, but the advance codec bitstreaming... that could be added via Update... Sony said that they were going to improve movie playback on the machine in the next update...
 
[quote name='Koggit']The only reason it seemed more popular in the gaming community when Sony started it is because it applied to PS3s, which gamers buy.

In the A/V community, it was a much bigger splash when HDDVD did it. Sony's move was looked at as a shameless "me too" resonse to HDDVD's successful marketing strategy.

Your observations all seem to be based off of the gaming community, which is dreadfully skewed.[/QUOTE]

Give me a break. It isn't like this is some great strategy that someone in the HD-DVD camp thought up. I remember buying my DVD player and getting 5 free movies.
 
[quote name='Thomas96']If you own a PS3.. why are you using HD DVD... [/quote] Is this a trick question? :roll:

In case it's not, the answer because I like movies. HD DVD has movies I like. Ergo I have movies on HD DVD. I'm not beholden to brand fanboyism. Is it really that difficult to understand?

[quote name='Thomas96']IR I can't argue your point, but the advance codec bitstreaming... that could be added via Update... Sony said that they were going to improve movie playback on the machine in the next update...[/quote] I hope so, I'd love to see it. Rumor has it (so take it with a grain of salt) that the specific HDMI chip sony chose for the PS3 doesn't support bitstreaming. But if they'd give me onboard DTS-HD HR and MA decoding, I'd be just about as happy, so here's hoping for one or the other! :)
 
that reminds me,

geko can you suggest a sound receiver that supports hi res codecs? When buying a new receiver, does this also mean having to buy new speakers or would i be able to use my current setup?
 
You can ABSOLUTELY use your current speakers. My fronts are 10 years old, the center is 4, and the (in-celing) surrounds are 2. Most of the new (2007-model) Onkyo, Denon, Pioneer, Yamaha, Sony etc receivers support the new codecs. How much do you want to spend? 5.1 or 7.1 setup? How many sources, and of what type (HDMI video/audio, component video, optical audio, coaxial audio, 5.1/7.1 analog audio, etc)? Is upconversion important? Is upscaling important?
 
You don't need 7.1. I don't have it in my living room, currently stuck at 5.0 (no standalone sub--powered subs built into the front channels, which are run full-range). 5.1 is fine. Very few movies are encoded in 7.1, so you're not missing that much.

I'd probably go with the Onkyo 605. Two HDMI ins, one out. Three component in, one out. two optical, two coaxial audio, plus 7.1 analogs (though you only need to use 5.1 should you ever have a device that has the requisite outputs). Supports all the new audio codecs, and upconverts all inputs to HDMI out, so you never have to change inputs on your TV. And the audio delay is adjustible, so you should be able to correct problems like your current DTS issue, should they pop up. Runs about $350-370 from authorized dealers if you look around a bit.

That's what I recommended to my parents for their living room HT setup, and they're thrilled to death with it. Beats the shit out of the old JVC prologic reciever they had (didn't even have optical ins).
 
I second the Onkyo 605.
This is what I have as well.

I tried the Harmon Kardon 347 but it just has too many bugs, and no 1080p/24 pass through killed it.
Sounded great though.
 
[quote name='CaseyRyback']Give me a break. It isn't like this is some great strategy that someone in the HD-DVD camp thought up. I remember buying my DVD player and getting 5 free movies.[/quote]That deal is the main reason I got my original DVD player.
 
[quote name='geko29']You don't need 7.1. I don't have it in my living room, currently stuck at 5.0 (no standalone sub--powered subs built into the front channels, which are run full-range). 5.1 is fine. Very few movies are encoded in 7.1, so you're not missing that much.

I'd probably go with the Onkyo 605. Two HDMI ins, one out. Three component in, one out. two optical, two coaxial audio, plus 7.1 analogs (though you only need to use 5.1 should you ever have a device that has the requisite outputs). Supports all the new audio codecs, and upconverts all inputs to HDMI out, so you never have to change inputs on your TV. And the audio delay is adjustible, so you should be able to correct problems like your current DTS issue, should they pop up. Runs about $350-370 from authorized dealers if you look around a bit.

That's what I recommended to my parents for their living room HT setup, and they're thrilled to death with it. Beats the shit out of the old JVC prologic reciever they had (didn't even have optical ins).[/quote]

Nice.. cool. So this receiver sends all inputs to the tv via hdmi? interesting..

And keeping my current speaker/subwoofer is a plus i guess..

Would i really notice the diff just by changing the receiver? i remember dallow saying that once you hear true hd that it would blow you away..

Also doesnt dts require a sixth speaker?
 
[quote name='guyver2077']Nice.. cool. So this receiver sends all inputs to the tv via hdmi? interesting..[/quote]
Yup. That's how I have my 905 set up. HD-A1, PS3, HDTiVo hooked up via HDMI, PS2 (soon to be disconnected), 360 (when it's not in my office) hooked up via component, camcorder via S-Video and VCR (don't laugh :)) via composite. My 905 spits them all out the HDMI, and the 605 does as well.

[quote name='guyver2077'] And keeping my current speaker/subwoofer is a plus i guess..[/quote]
Absolutely. And if you ever decide that your speakers are holding you back, you can upgrade them piecemeal as you have the money. Just remember to re-do the Audssey setup (automatic speaker calibration) after each change.

[quote name='guyver2077'] Would i really notice the diff just by changing the receiver? i remember dallow saying that once you hear true hd that it would blow you away..[/quote]
If your current receiver can't do HBR lossy/lossless and you have a player that can (the 360 addon cannot, but the PS3 as well as all HD DVD and Blu-Ray players including the ever-cheaper A2 can), then there is a SUBSTANTIAL difference between DD/DTS over optical and advanced audio over HDMI.

[quote name='guyver2077'] Also doesnt dts require a sixth speaker?[/quote]
You're thinking of DTS-ES or Dolby Digital EX, both of which offer support for a center rear speaker. It's optional, and not encoded on many titles. I'd say maybe 50-100 SD DVDs total (out of the what, 250k currently available?), and I believe there are two Blu-Rays.
 
[quote name='guyver2077']Nice.. cool. So this receiver sends all inputs to the tv via hdmi? interesting..

And keeping my current speaker/subwoofer is a plus i guess..

Would i really notice the diff just by changing the receiver? i remember dallow saying that once you hear true hd that it would blow you away..

Also doesnt dts require a sixth speaker?[/quote]You only need as many speakers as the audio requires.

The minimum is 5.1, with few exceptions.
That's all you need.

If it's more than that (depending on the codec used), then the extra rear speaker's channels are matrixed back into the standard rear surrounds.

EDIT: Oh I see Geko answered.
 
[quote name='geko29']


If your current receiver can't do HBR lossy/lossless and you have a player that can (the 360 addon cannot, but the PS3 as well as all HD DVD and Blu-Ray players including the ever-cheaper A2 can), then there is a SUBSTANTIAL difference between DD/DTS over optical and advanced audio over HDMI.


[/quote]

ok. Also does wattage power mean anything anymore.. i know my current receiver outputs 1200 watts..

Do movies sound lower when using true hd etc? Also i was looking at the specs and didnt see truehd mentioned..
 
Pulp%20Fiction.jpg
 
[quote name='dallow']You only need as many speakers as the audio requires.

The minimum is 5.1, with few exceptions.
That's all you need.

If it's more than that (depending on the codec used), then the extra rear speaker's channels are matrixed back into the standard rear surrounds.

EDIT: Oh I see Geko answered.[/quote]

allright kool.. just wanted to make sure i wouldnt be missing a channel of sound or something.....
 
You need a large room with enough space to position the speakers correctly to really appreciate 7.1 as well.

I went for a ghetto 6.1 setup and threw the extra speaker behind the couch.

As geko said, very few movies support it.
Though I wished they would.
 
[quote name='guyver2077']ok. Also does wattage power mean anything anymore.. i know my current receiver outputs 1200 watts..[/quote] No it doesn't, and no it doesn't. :)

Well, to qualify that. If you have large, expensive, inefficient speakers, then wattage does matter. But if you had any of those, you wouldn't be looking at a receiver, instead going for something like the Integra 9.8 Preprocessor paired with a muti-thousand-dollar Krell amp or something like that, with 300 REAL watts per channel, at 4 ohms.

The wattage claims on HTIBs are, to put it kindly, lies. To use yours as an example (not bagging on it, just was convenient :)), it's rated at 200wpc at 3 ohms, at 1khz, with 10% THD. First problem is there's no way speakers that small are 3 ohms. I'd guess more like 12 (that's not a bad thing, in case you were wondering). So power is down to 50wpc at 12 ohms, still at 1khz with 10% THD. Now the latter is a major problem too. Total Harmonic Distortion is the killer of speakers. If actual output came even REMOTELY close to that level of distortion, your tweeters would quite literally fly out of the cabinet and hit you in the face. So your speakers actually don't need anywhere near as much power as the amp is spec'd as being able to produce. If they did, they wouldn't work anymore.

Compare that with the Onkyo 605, which is relatively low-end in the Onkyo lineup. It's rated at 90wpc at 8 ohms, all channels driven, with 0.08% THD, from 20Hz-20kHz. 90wpc at 8 ohms is roughly 50wpc at 12 (and the Onkyo is rated at 210wpc at 3 ohms), to make the comparison fair. Compare 0.08% distortion to 10%. Then realize that that 0.08% is the WORST the distortion ever gets over the entire range of 20Hz-20kHz (full range of human hearing), while the 10% is ONLY at 1kHz, which is the easiest frequency for an amplifier to reproduce. It actually gets worse across the range.

The bottom line after all that gobbldy$$$$ is the 605 has WAY WAY WAY more power than you need for your current setup.

Edit: oh my god, I can't believe the forum won't let me say gobbldy$$$$ . Replace it with "detritus", "sillyness", "babble", or any other word denoting less-than-important stuff. :)

[quote name='guyver2077'] Do movies sound lower when using true hd etc? Also i was looking at the specs and didnt see truehd mentioned..[/quote] Some of the early Warner TrueHD titles were encoded very low to increase dynamics because lossless has a very low (almost nonexistent) noise floor. My 905 applies Dialog Normalization to all sources, making them all roughly the same volume. I believe the 605 does the same, but I'm not sure.
 
[quote name='geko29']No it doesn't, and no it doesn't. :)

Well, to qualify that. If you have large, expensive, inefficient speakers, then wattage does matter. But if you had any of those, you wouldn't be looking at a receiver, instead going for something like the Integra 9.8 Preprocessor paired with a muti-thousand-dollar Krell amp or something like that, with 300 REAL watts per channel, at 4 ohms.

The wattage claims on HTIBs are, to put it kindly, lies. To use yours as an example (not bagging on it, just was convenient :)), it's rated at 200wpc at 3 ohms, at 1khz, with 10% THD. First problem is there's no way speakers that small are 3 ohms. I'd guess more like 12 (that's not a bad thing, in case you were wondering). So power is down to 50wpc at 12 ohms, still at 1khz with 10% THD. Now the latter is a major problem too. Total Harmonic Distortion is the killer of speakers. If actual output came even REMOTELY close to that level of distortion, your tweeters would quite literally fly out of the cabinet and hit you in the face. So your speakers actually don't need anywhere near as much power as the amp is spec'd as being able to produce. If they did, they wouldn't work anymore.

Compare that with the Onkyo 605, which is relatively low-end in the Onkyo lineup. It's rated at 90wpc at 8 ohms, all channels driven, with 0.08% THD, from 20Hz-20kHz. 90wpc at 8 ohms is roughly 50wpc at 12 (and the Onkyo is rated at 210wpc at 3 ohms), to make the comparison fair. Compare 0.08% distortion to 10%. Then realize that that 0.08% is the WORST the distortion ever gets over the entire range of 20Hz-20kHz (full range of human hearing), while the 10% is ONLY at 1kHz, which is the easiest frequency for an amplifier to reproduce. It actually gets worse across the range.

The bottom line after all that gobbldy$$$$ is the 605 has WAY WAY WAY more power than you need for your current setup.

Edit: oh my god, I can't believe the forum won't let me say gobbldy$$$$ . Replace it with "detritus", "sillyness", "babble", or any other word denoting less-than-important stuff. :)

Some of the early Warner TrueHD titles were encoded very low to increase dynamics because lossless has a very low (almost nonexistent) noise floor. My 905 applies Dialog Normalization to all sources, making them all roughly the same volume. I believe the 605 does the same, but I'm not sure.[/QUOTE]

Good post I have become curious as to what my received is again now (its been 4-5 years since I studied it). The 605 running as cheaply as it is i may have to look into it. This stuff is like PC's to me. Once I upgrade I dont look again for 4-5 years or I would be broke... I also dont jump to the top of the line because simply I cannot afford it, at least being married I cant afford it without risking a divorce.
 
[quote name='geko29']Is this a trick question? :roll:

In case it's not, the answer because I like movies. HD DVD has movies I like. Ergo I have movies on HD DVD. I'm not beholden to brand fanboyism. Is it really that difficult to understand?

I hope so, I'd love to see it. Rumor has it (so take it with a grain of salt) that the specific HDMI chip sony chose for the PS3 doesn't support bitstreaming. But if they'd give me onboard DTS-HD HR and MA decoding, I'd be just about as happy, so here's hoping for one or the other! :)[/QUOTE]



I asked the question because I was wondering if your answer was going to be due to features, or software..
 
[quote name='guyver2077']dude cmon.... wtf

:D:wall:[/QUOTE]

soon you're going to be raiding stores for clearanced HD DVDs... first the players then the movies
 
BD+ has been hacked officially. Want to copy BD+ movies? You can now.

Version 6.1.9.5 beta was released and guess what? You can rip BD+
 
[quote name='Thomas96']soon you're going to be raiding stores for clearanced HD DVDs... first the players then the movies[/QUOTE]

Oh great, its The Mana Knight Part II.

Last I checked it was the BDA who was selling movies for half off several times. Last I checked it was the BDA who has dropped players $600 since inception.
Last I checked it was HD DVD who has sold more stand alones then Blu-ray players.
Last I checked Toshiba has sold more stand alones then Sony, Pioneer, Panasonic, Samsung COMBINED
Last I checked HD DVD "2.0" has been here since April of 2006.
Last I checked the 360 AO has sold more then all Blu-ray stand alones combined.
Last I checked Paramount and Dreamworks gave the middle finger to the BDA.
 
[quote name='GizmoGC']Oh great, its The Mana Knight Part II.

Last I checked it was the BDA who was selling movies for half off several times. Last I checked it was the BDA who has dropped players $600 since inception.
Last I checked it was HD DVD who has sold more stand alones then Blu-ray players.
Last I checked Toshiba has sold more stand alones then Sony, Pioneer, Panasonic, Samsung COMBINED
Last I checked HD DVD "2.0" has been here since April of 2006.
Last I checked the 360 AO has sold more then all Blu-ray stand alones combined.
Last I checked Paramount and Dreamworks gave the middle finger to the BDA.[/QUOTE]

Seeing as how you are just counting BD standalones, I'd like to add that the BD attach rate is killing the HD attach rate (if we are only counting standalones). And we all know how important attach rates are.
 
http://www.homemediamagazine.com/new...ticle_id=11479

In response to this week’s Blu-ray Disc Festival in Los Angeles, Kevin Collins, director in the Microsoft Consumer Media Technology Group, defended the company’s backing of the next-generation HD DVD format.

“The [Blu-ray] camp’s claims about Microsoft’s desire to have a format war are baseless,” Collins said. ”Microsoft has over 100 people working on HD DVD interactivity and we believe that HD DVD is the next-generation optical format.”

During a presentation to journalists and home theater enthusiasts at the Blu-ray Festival earlier in the week, 20th Century Fox Home Entertainment worldwide president Mike Dunn intimated that the format war is being perpetuated by Microsoft in the hopes of confusing consumers so much they don’t support either format and ultimately buy their entertainment online. He didn’t mention the computer giant by name, but blasted “the orchestrated campaigns of confusion and anti-consumerism fueled by an 800-pound gorilla that would prefer to force us all into the practice of paying tolls for the right to exchange information and enjoy entertainment.”

Collins said Microsoft decided to join the HD DVD format two CES shows ago because the format’s replication costs were and still are the cheapest. He said there are only three plants in the world that can produce BD-50 discs, and those are all owned by Sony. He added that Microsoft’s predictions around costs and availability almost three years ago still hold true today.

Another feature that Microsoft liked was mandatory managed copy, which mandated that content authors allow customers to make legal copies of their HD DVD. At the time, Blu-Ray refused to do this, but has since changed their stance.

“AACS today is rapidly approaching the ‘final agreement’ that will start to make this available for customers, though I do not have a firm timeline on this,” Collins said. “The key fact is that Microsoft believed that a next-generation format should be ‘consumer friendly’ and at the time of the decision, only HD DVD supported this.”

Collins also said the interactive nature of HD DVD would play a big role in the format, since just having high-definition video was not going to be enough to convince customers to upgrade from DVD.

“HD DVD offers compelling features by mandating that there are three key hardware components (secondary video decoder, memory and networking),” Collins said. “These offer a lowest common denominator that allows studios like Warner Bros. to produce a title like 300 that has features that are not in the Blu-ray version.”

300 HD DVD exclusives include a strategy game, the ability to view and choose from the wallpapers and ring tones via the cell phone, picture-in-picture for the duration of the movie and the ability to have a community experience where users can share their favorite clips with other 300 HD DVD owners and rate those scenes.

Collins said Microsoft did not and will not bundle the HD DVD drive in Xbox 360 because the company believes that gamers are first and foremost gamers.

“If you look historically at the attach rates (i.e. the number of DVDs purchased per DVD player) you will see that game consoles have a single-digit attach rate, while dedicated DVD players have an attach rate in the mid-20s,” said Collins. ”Microsoft knew if we put in an HD DVD drive that we would have to raise costs and disenfranchise our customers (that are primarily gamers) as the unit would become too expensive.”

Collins said price has proven out in the game console business, as Wii is outselling both Xbox 360 and PS3, primarily due to price.

“The PS3 has yet to even come close to the sales estimates that Sony was telling everyone last year at this time,” said Collins. “If bundling an HD optical drive in a game console is such a smart idea, then why is the PS3 so far behind on sales targets?

“Another fact to look at is the amount of Xbox 360 HD DVD drives sold, compared to all Blu-Ray dedicated players. As of the latest NPD data, the Xbox HD DVD drive has outsold all combind Blu-Ray dedicated players by a substantial factor. While the Xbox 360 HD DVD drive is the best selling accessory over $100 for ALL game consoles, it only represents as single digit attach rate to Xbox 360.

“This proves the initial point that primarily, gamers are gamers, while there is a small percentage that also want to watch movies on it like they would a dedicated player.”

Microsoft Xbox research has shown that Xbox gamers spend more than 200 hours playing a game versus less than eight hours watching a movie on their consoles. Since customers can only do one thing on a game console at a time, they are either playing games or potentially watching movies.

“If you look at the introduction of the PSP, what was the biggest software sales for the PSP when it launched? It was UMD,” said Collins. “Who sells UMD discs today? Sony. Why? Because once there was compelling games for the PSP, consumers spent their time playing games on the device, the primary reason it was purchased in the first place.

“We believe that the PS3 will follow the same course and that this holiday, when compelling games come out, PS3 customers will be drawn to be playing more games. In fact, if you look at the recent press releases, execs in Hollywood have attributed the declining box office revenues to the “Halo effect,” where customers are staying at home playing Halo 3 instead of coming to the movie theater.

“Another proof point in this is the attach rate for Blu-Ray versus HD DVD. Including the PS3, Blu-ray has an attach rate slightly above one-to-one whereas HD DVD has an attach rate just below four-to-one. We believe that will improve for HD DVD with cheaper price points (such as the $169 HD DVD player at Sears for Black Friday) and more compelling games coming out for PS3 this holiday.”
Click to expand...

A lot of things Ive been saying for months.
 
[quote name='dpatel']Seeing as how you are just counting BD standalones, I'd like to add that the BD attach rate is killing the HD attach rate (if we are only counting standalones). And we all know how important attach rates are.[/QUOTE]

Yes, if only counting SA Blu-ray attach ratio would be higher. But the PS3 plays a gigantic part in the disc sales and you can't discredit it. Sony does not even have a 1:1 for movie/player, while HD DVD has a 4:1.
 
I guess Ratatouille and Cars for me this week.
Will pick up the shorts and Oldboy later since I have to get CoD4 today and Uncharted next week.



Also, you can't do BD attach rates because the PS3 skews them all to hell.
 
[quote name='dpatel']But, PS3 excluded, BD also wins in attach rates.[/QUOTE]

Without the PS3, Blu-ray would have been a memory by now.

I see what your getting out dpatel, but you will simply fail with your blue colored sungalsses on.

Watch this:

ANYONE POSTING IN THE THREAD OWN A STAND ALONE BLU-RAY PLAYER?

ANYONE POSTING IN THIS THREAD OWN A STAND ALONE HD DVD PLAYER?

Me?
0 Blu-ray. 4 HD DVD. (A2, A3 (2), 360 AO)
 
[quote name='GizmoGC']Yes, if only counting SA Blu-ray attach ratio would be higher. But the PS3 plays a gigantic part in the disc sales and you can't discredit it. Sony does not even have a 1:1 for movie/player, while HD DVD has a 4:1.[/QUOTE]

Wait, if it's a 'gigantic part', why was it omitted from this post:
[quote name='GizmoGC']Last I checked it was HD DVD who has sold more stand alones then Blu-ray players.
Last I checked Toshiba has sold more stand alones then Sony, Pioneer, Panasonic, Samsung COMBINED
Last I checked the 360 AO has sold more then all Blu-ray stand alones combined.
[/QUOTE]

All 3 of those points are pretty much moot if the PS3 is indeed a 'gigantic part'.
 
[quote name='GizmoGC']I see what your getting out dpatel, but you will simply fail with your blue colored sungalsses on.[/QUOTE]

If you did see, then you would know it was you who failed.
 
Know what Gizmo? I have zero cheapy HD DVD players.

I WOULD have had a BD standalone, but thank goodness Sony decided to include one in the PS3.

Not only that, but it'll soon be profile 2.0 with the next update as reps have Sony, and Fox have stated.

Until there's a BD standalone that's 2.0 and bitstreams TrueHD and DTS-HD MA, I've no reason to upgrade.
 
I suppose there are plenty of counter arguments to the "Blu-Ray is outselling HD DVD 2-to-1, and has been all bloody year" point...but they simply reek of desperation.

I bet the N-Gage had an awesome attach rate after its software went on firesale, too. I'm sure GizmoGC can attest to that personally (he has a fondness for picking surefire losers).
 
[quote name='dpatel']Wait, if it's a 'gigantic part', why was it omitted from this post:


All 3 of those points are pretty much moot if the PS3 is indeed a 'gigantic part'.[/QUOTE]

You are not reading what I wrote. I mention 'stand alone" in all 3 points. That's what Warner cares about. Thats where the future of each format is at. Not in a video game system that can't even outsell its "old" 7 year old system. PS3 to Blu-ray is PSP to UMD. Simple as that. Studios care about about stand alone player sales, not a video game system where its owner may buy a 3 movies on month, and a game the next.
 
[quote name='GizmoGC']You are not reading what I wrote. I mention 'stand alone" in all 3 points. That's what Warner cares about. Thats where the future of each format is at. Not in a video game system that can't even outsell its "old" 7 year old system. PS3 to Blu-ray is PSP to UMD. Simple as that. Studios care about about stand alone player sales, not a video game system where its owner may buy a 3 movies on month, and a game the next.[/QUOTE]

But, the PS3 is a gigantic part of BD, and has contributed to the majority of hardware/software sales. Why would a big company like Warner disregard that?
 
And, if what you said is true about studios only caring about standalones, BD is killing HD in attach rates, which is VERY important.
 
[quote name='dallow']Know what Gizmo? I have zero cheapy HD DVD players.

I WOULD have had a BD standalone, but thank goodness Sony decided to include one in the PS3.

Not only that, but it'll soon be profile 2.0 with the next update as reps have Sony, and Fox have stated.

Until there's a BD standalone that's 2.0 and bitstreams TrueHD and DTS-HD MA, I've no reason to upgrade.[/QUOTE]

And congrats, you can now only own 50% of movies in HD.

You have ZERO Bu-ray stand alones, exactly as to what I was getting at.

2.0 for PS3? Awesome! That only goes to prove Sony is in this for themselves and themselves only. Just like LG and Samsung left Blu-ray, I fully expect all other CEs to as well (Except Sony and Panasonic who own a stake in Blu-ray).

Keep attacking me guys and ignoring the glaring article I posted. I love how all 3 of the BD50 plants are owned by...Sony! Who knew! :roll:
 
2.0 for PS3 because it's so much more than a standalone.

Why do you only count attach rates when PS3 is in the picture?
PS3/BD == PSP/UMD remember?
 
[quote name='dpatel']But, the PS3 is a gigantic part of BD, and has contributed to the majority of hardware/software sales. Why would a big company like Warner disregard that?[/QUOTE]

Because they know the future of either format is NOT from Gamers. They will NOT play a big part in deciding. It will be stand alones that will. Please see Warners comment from a few weeks ago stating just this.
 
[quote name='GizmoGC']Keep attacking me guys and ignoring the glaring article I posted. I love how all 3 of the BD50 plants are owned by...Sony! Who knew! :roll:[/QUOTE]

I'm not ignoring the article at all. I am just trying to understand your logic (or lack thereof) in regards to the PS3.
 
[quote name='GizmoGC']Because they know the future of either format is NOT from Gamers. They will NOT play a big part in deciding. It will be stand alones that will. Please see Warners comment from a few weeks ago stating just this.[/QUOTE]

While I disagree with that, I guess Warner will be favoring BD tremendously as BD attach rates are through the roof (excluding the PS3, of course). And, like you have been saying, studios will take notice of these attach rates and make the clear, and obvious choice to go with the format with the higher attach rate, correct?
 
[quote name='dpatel']I'm not ignoring the article at all. I am just trying to understand your logic (or lack thereof) in regards to the PS3.[/QUOTE]

It's easy to discount it, because the rate at which it is selling is not all that good as a gaming system, but knock 'em dead amazing as a highdef video player (even if you take into consideration the 20% who use it as a player, you're well over a million machines by that point).

It's easy to discount it, particularly when you're perpetually on a fishing expedition to discount your far-greater-selling rival.

Then again, is it worth arguing with someone who claims that Paramount/Dreamworks "gave the finger" to BR - as if they were LOOKING and THRILLED to no longer sell their movies on Blu-Ray, rather than understandably enticed by a short-term buyout that far exceeded any profits they would gain from BR sales over the next 18 months? Gizmo evidently thinks that Paramount and Dreamworks are as emotionally invested in putting out HD DVD films, and likewise despise Blu-Ray - in much the same way he does. The $150 million doesn't matter, right? They would have gone back to HD DVD for free. Wouldn't they? ;)
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Then again, is it worth arguing with someone who claims that Paramount/Dreamworks "gave the finger" to BR - as if they were LOOKING and THRILLED to no longer sell their movies on Blu-Ray, rather than understandably enticed by a short-term buyout that far exceeded any profits they would gain from BR sales over the next 18 months? Gizmo evidently thinks that Paramount and Dreamworks are as emotionally invested in putting out HD DVD films, and likewise despise Blu-Ray - in much the same way he does. The $150 million doesn't matter, right? They would have gone back to HD DVD for free. Wouldn't they? ;)[/QUOTE]

True. Then again, if what he says is true, Warner should be giving HD the finger any day now, what with BD attach rates being through the roof.
 
[quote name='dpatel']But, the PS3 is a gigantic part of BD, and has contributed to the majority of hardware/software sales. Why would a big company like Warner disregard that?[/quote] Because over the long haul, it won't be. As time goes on, PS3s will make up less and less of the total active Blu-Ray userbase. How many people still use the PS2 or Xbox as their DVD player?

Warner is in this with a longview. They have explicitly stated on several occasions that they care about standalone hardware sales, because they do not belive it wise to lean on the console userbase for all of their sales. At some point HDM has to become something more than a format for videogamers. Standalones are the path to that goal.

[quote name='dallow']Like Warner's very proud comment a week ago about the highest selling HD title is 300 on BD.[/quote] Yup, that's the one. In the very same breath where they said 300 catered strongly to the tastes of videogamers and that it's bad business to depend on gamers for their sales.
 
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