- LOCK - Format War - HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray - LOCK -

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[quote name='LinkinPrime']Not sure if the Paramount deal is worlwide, it migh be an exclusive thing overseas...don't quote me on that though.

$98 Players were basically clearance, removing old stock, making room for the new A3's. Yet some of you guys refer to it as a "desparation" move by Toshiba. GizmoGC is simply throwing the sarcasm back at you guys. At least, I think he is.[/quote]
The only reason we call it desperation is simply because Gizmo calls amazon sales "desperation" for BDA, even though both sides have done deals. He was the first (and only one) to say that the BDA offering BOGO is desperation, and we are merely pointing out the fallacies in his argument as both sides do sales and would both then be considered "Desperate." As myke said a couple pages back, "we are just making fun of the fact that a guy would call the side with 65% of the market share desperate but then the side with only 35% of the market isn't" or something to that effect.

And there were over 60,000 HD-DVD players that needed to be clearanced? that's a lot of players...

And munch, I addressed that earlier on the page. :)
 
[quote name='H.Cornerstone']The only reason we call it desperation is simply because Gizmo calls amazon sales "desperation" for BDA, even though both sides have done deals. He was the first (and only one) to say that the BDA offering BOGO is desperation, and we are merely pointing out the fallacies in his argument as both sides do sales and would both then be considered "Desperate." As myke said a couple pages back, "we are just making fun of the fact that a guy would call the side with 65% of the market share desperate but then the side with only 35% of the market isn't" or something to that effect.

And there were over 60,000 HD-DVD players that needed to be clearanced? that's a lot of players...

And munch, I addressed that earlier on the page. :)[/quote]

Ah...I see. As for the 60K A-2's, not sure if the specifically manufactured more or if they had that many extras but its discontinued and either way they all sold out and it was a great way to get 60K HD DVD players in consumers homes.
 
This is going to sound far more inflammatory than it's meant, but are we any closer to being done with this "war" than at the start? I don't give a rip about it myself, but people are asking me which format to go with and I just stand there, slack-jawed and of no assistance to anyone.
 
[quote name='LinkinPrime']Ah...I see. As for the 60K A-2's, not sure if the specifically manufactured more or if they had that many extras but its discontinued and either way they all sold out and it was a great way to get 60K HD DVD players in consumers homes.[/quote]
I agree, it was a smart move by the HD-DVD camp to get more players into the market, something that both sides need to do and it was a good way to do it. I think it was a little bit of both, left over stock, and a little more manufactured to make way for the A3.

Companies lowering prices for consumers is never a bad thing, unless your Gizmo, than it's desperation. ;)

And Daroga, we won't know until after Christmas, if you asked me in August, I would have said yes, but now? I It's more equal, but Blu-ray still has the slight edge. Warner will decide the fate of this format war. They go Blu-ray? War is over. They go HD-DVD? Stalemate.
 
[quote name='LinkinPrime']If Warner goes exclusive, it will take it a step closer to the end, if they stay neutral, its going to be another long battle all year long.[/QUOTE]

Do you really think that is true in both directions? You believe, then, that HD DVD can survive in stalemate fashion if WB goes Blu-Ray exclusive?

I sure hope you don't genuinely think that. HD DVD is being outsold 2:1 in the closest market as is, and WB sells more hidef movies than any other company. I truly doubt they can survive on Universal and Paramount alone.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Do you really think that is true in both directions? You believe, then, that HD DVD can survive in stalemate fashion if WB goes Blu-Ray exclusive?

I sure hope you don't genuinely think that. HD DVD is being outsold 2:1 in the closest market as is, and WB sells more hidef movies than any other company. I truly doubt they can survive on Universal and Paramount alone.[/quote]

Especially without Speilberg's movies, although Forrest Gump would be hard to pass up...
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Do you really think that is true in both directions? You believe, then, that HD DVD can survive in stalemate fashion if WB goes Blu-Ray exclusive? [/quote]
That's a logical fallacy. Believing that Warner going exclusive will bring about the end of the format war is the antithesis of believing that Warner going exclusive causes a stalemate.

FWIW, I agree with him. Warner holds the key. They sell damn near half of all the HDM media sold, and have more titles out than anybody except Universal. They also have the largest back catalog. If WB goes exclusive to either side, the war is over but for the shouting.
 
Did WB cause a stalemate (assuming we all agree that there is one currently, which I'm not particularly convinced of)? No. Has their format-neutral stance contributed to the continued existence of each format? You bet.
 
But that's not what Linkin was saying. He said if WB goes exclusive, that would be the beginning of the end of the format war. That is the exact opposite of saying their exclusivity means a stalemate.

I agree with you completely that WB's neutrality has helped both formats, but we were talking about (the theory of) their exclusivity.
 
Oh, it certainly is a theory at this point, though folks on both sides of the fence will pick and choose select quotes to support an assertion that WB is certainly going HD/BR exclusive as of yesterday, but it's all conjecture at this point.

To be clear, WB's exclusivity is sufficient, but not necessary, to end the format war; their neutrality is necessary, I would argue, for both formats to continue. It's certainly *probable* for that to not be true, but it's not likely.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Oh, it certainly is a theory at this point, though folks on both sides of the fence will pick and choose select quotes to support an assertion that WB is certainly going HD/BR exclusive as of yesterday, but it's all conjecture at this point.[/quote]
Oh I agree that it's all conjecture and fanboy doucheness at this point. I was just taking exception to your re-characterizing a stated opinion of "if X, then Y" as "if X, then not Y". :)

[quote name='mykevermin'] To be clear, WB's exclusivity is sufficient, but not necessary, to end the format war; their neutrality is necessary, I would argue, for both formats to continue. It's certainly *probable* for that to not be true, but it's not likely.[/quote]
With this I agree completely. WB could end the format war, or they could stay neutral and it could end by other means, or they could stay neutral and it could wind up a stalemate. The only scenario that I can't envision is WB going exclusive (either way) and the war NOT ending.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Do you really think that is true in both directions? You believe, then, that HD DVD can survive in stalemate fashion if WB goes Blu-Ray exclusive?

I sure hope you don't genuinely think that. HD DVD is being outsold 2:1 in the closest market as is, and WB sells more hidef movies than any other company. I truly doubt they can survive on Universal and Paramount alone.[/quote]

I think you missread my statment. I believe that WB has enough pull to push the war near its end if it were to go exclusive in either format. I'm not saying it will end it, but if it goes exclusive with either format, we'll be closer to knowing who's "winning the war" soon after.
 
[quote name='H.Cornerstone']Especially without Speilberg's movies, although Forrest Gump would be hard to pass up...[/QUOTE]

AGAIN,
If Paramount or Universal want to release his movies THEY CAN. They may not get his blessing or "commentary", but they own the movies, NOT him. Close Encounters is owned by Sony, hence why it is on Blu-ray. You're nuts if you think Universal is going to release his movie on Blu-ray just because he wants it to.

Rumor has it Spielberg is leaving Paramount and taking Dreamworks to Universal. I imagine at that point Paramount will just release his movies anyway. No need to kiss his ass any further.
 
[quote name='GizmoGC']AGAIN,
If Paramount or Universal want to release his movies THEY CAN. They may not get his blessing or "commentary", but they own the movies, NOT him. Close Encounters is owned by Sony, hence why it is on Blu-ray. You're nuts if you think Universal is going to release his movie on Blu-ray just because he wants it to.

Rumor has it Spielberg is leaving Paramount and taking Dreamworks to Universal. I imagine at that point Paramount will just release his movies anyway. No need to kiss his ass any further.[/QUOTE]

They own his movies, but the deal explicitly excluded his movies. So, normally, you'd be right, but since the deal made sure to point out his movies are not exclusive, then your point is pretty much irrelevant in this situation.
 
[quote name='Richlough']Forrest Gump was directed by Robert Zemeckis...:wave:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0109830/[/quote]
I know that, I made a comment about how Paramount's lineup is weaker without spielbergs movies, and just said a movie that I really like in Paramount's lineup.

And geko your an anime fan? that's shocking, sort of.

And dpatel, would it be too much if I said again that the article isn't valid because it doesn't include Nielson video scan numbers?

And wouldn't it be great if Spielberg went back to columbia? ;)
 
Any word on New Line Cinema's plans? I know that they're about to release Hairspray and Rush Hour 3 on BR and that they're coming on HD DVD early next year. So I was wondering if they mentioned any catalog titles, like LOTR, The Mask, Blade Trilogy, Rush Hour 1 & 2, Mortal Kombat :D

So many studios are taking too much of their sweet ass time with releases. Was it this bad when DVD first hit the streets?
 
[quote name='H.Cornerstone']And geko your an anime fan? that's shocking, sort of.[/quote]
Why is that shocking? Now granted, I stopped collecting a few years ago (I have roughly 80 discs) cause it's so damn expensive, but I've been a fan of manga and anime all my life. Some favorites are:

Cowboy Bebop
Serial Experiments: Lain
Macross/Southern Cross/Mospeda
Ghost in the Shell
Neon Genesis: Evangelion
Ninja Scroll
Armitage III
Patlabor
Bubblegum Crisis (original and 2040)
 
Speaking of anime, someone once recommended that I watch a series that was people on rollerblades kinda like Jet Set Radio minus the tagging. I forgot what it was called though, anyone know?
 
[quote name='geko29']Why is that shocking? Now granted, I stopped collecting a few years ago (I have roughly 80 discs) cause it's so damn expensive, but I've been a fan of manga and anime all my life. Some favorites are:

Cowboy Bebop
Serial Experiments: Lain
Macross/Southern Cross/Mospeda
Ghost in the Shell
Neon Genesis: Evangelion
Ninja Scroll
Armitage III
Patlabor
Bubblegum Crisis (original and 2040)[/quote]
Just seems with the type of movies you like that you are an older cag, and typically for some reason, I think of older people like you with awesome tvs and home theater set-ups not to be anime fans.

Wheres the Gundam love. ;)

And speaking of that, anyone want to still argue with me that 10gb per layer won't matter when PS3 starts to support divx?

Linkin, who knows with New Line, I am personally waiting for the Original TMNT movies, plus the ones you mentioned. ;)
 
[quote name='H.Cornerstone']How could you regret seeing Jessica Biel in a bikini? ;)[/quote]


lol...funny thing, i just got Into the Blue on Blu-ray and i planned on watching it once and selling it...surprisingly i kind of enjoyed the movie and seeing Jessica Alba swim around in her bikini makes me want to just leave it in my collection a bit longer:)
 
[quote name='H.Cornerstone']And dpatel, would it be too much if I said again that the article isn't valid because it doesn't include Nielson video scan numbers?[/QUOTE]

:lol: Of course. Don't forget to use your own data as a basis for your argument and claim that your data is more credible than Nielson's.
 
[quote name='Jedi1979']lol...funny thing, i just got Into the Blue on Blu-ray and i planned on watching it once and selling it...surprisingly i kind of enjoyed the movie and seeing Jessica Alba swim around in her bikini makes me want to just leave it in my collection a bit longer:)[/quote]
Rofl, the wonders of Blu-ray.

[quote name='dptael']:lol: Of course. Don't forget to use your own data as a basis for your argument and claim that your data is more credible than Nielson's.[/QUOTE]

Roger.
 
[quote name='H.Cornerstone']Just seems with the type of movies you like that you are an older cag, and typically for some reason, I think of older people like you with awesome tvs and home theater set-ups not to be anime fans.[/quote] I am a BIT older (29, to be exact), but I was into Anime when you were just a twinkle in your daddy's eye, whippersnapper. :lol: Seriously though, I was really into Robotech as a kid, and everything kind of grew out of that.

[quote name='H.Cornerstone'] Wheres the Gundam love. ;)[/quote] Never got into it. Maybe I was watching the wrong offshoot of the series, but I didn't care for what I saw. Maybe you can recommend a specific series/disc?

[quote name='H.Cornerstone'] And speaking of that, anyone want to still argue with me that 10gb per layer won't matter when PS3 starts to support divx?[/quote] This I don't understand. Not being argumentative, but isn't the point of divx to use LESS space, even if image quality suffers to some degree? And why wouldn't you play from the local HDD or stream across your network instead of wasting a $20 writeable?
 
[quote name='geko29']I am a BIT older (29, to be exact), but I was into Anime when you were just a twinkle in your daddy's eye, whippersnapper. :lol: Seriously though, I was really into Robotech as a kid, and everything kind of grew out of that.

Never got into it. Maybe I was watching the wrong offshoot of the series, but I didn't care for what I saw. Maybe you can recommend a specific series/disc?

This I don't understand. Not being argumentative, but isn't the point of divx to use LESS space, even if image quality suffers to some degree? And why wouldn't you play from the local HDD or stream across your network instead of wasting a $20 writeable?[/quote]
More episodes onto one disc. I could put all of my Gundam Wing episodes and Ronin Warriors episodes on one Disc! And if I use a Dual Layer, I could put Gundam Wing, Ronin Warriors, Trigun and Beast Wars, and maybe Transformers...... And yes Streaming from a network works, but my router doesn't support it me thinks. :cry:

And I have never noticed lower quality due to Divx, usually you can get DVD quality for a lot less space, now this is on my computer screen, which runs at 1280x1024 and the image is only 640x480, so I am sure that has something to do with it.

I haven't seen that many Gundams, they just seem uber popular, so I assume everyone likes them! The only series I have seen is Gundam Wing, (mainly because it was on Toonami after Dragon Ball Z, but don't get the english version, it sucks) and I enjoyed it very much.

and tehe, you called me whippersnapper. :)
 
[quote name='H.Cornerstone']More episodes onto one disc. I could put all of my Gundam Wing episodes and Ronin Warriors episodes on one Disc! And if I use a Dual Layer, I could put Gundam Wing, Ronin Warriors, Trigun and Beast Wars, and maybe Transformers...... And yes Streaming from a network works, but my router doesn't support it me thinks. :cry:[/quote]
Your router is immaterial, actually, all those transfers are handled directly between the PS3 and PC at Layer 2. The router has nothing to do with the process except copying the frames from the wireless network onto the wired, and vice versa. Let me know if you need help. And yes, I do this for a living. :)

[quote name='H.Cornerstone'] And I have never noticed lower quality due to Divx, usually you can get DVD quality for a lot less space, now this is on my computer screen, which runs at 1280x1024 and the image is only 640x480, so I am sure that has something to do with it. [/quote]
It depends on how much you turn up the compression dial. Most of the files I've seen have been DL DVD rips that are recompressed to fit on a CD. I still say BD-Rs (or HD DVD-Rs for that matter) are way too expensive for this task, and I'd stick to local storage (where a 120GB HDD will run you under $100), external storage (500GB for that same $100), or networked PC as a more convenient and cost-effective option.

[quote name='H.Cornerstone']and tehe, you called me whippersnapper. :)[/quote]
lol, I thought you'd get a kick out of that one. FWIW, I placed you at 22-23 before you mentioned you were 20. Take that as a compliment or an insult at your own discretion. :)
 
[quote name='geko29']Your router is immaterial, actually, all those transfers are handled directly between the PS3 and PC at Layer 2. The router has nothing to do with the process except copying the frames from the wireless network onto the wired, and vice versa. Let me know if you need help. And yes, I do this for a living. :)


It depends on how much you turn up the compression dial. Most of the files I've seen have been DL DVD rips that are recompressed to fit on a CD. I still say BD-Rs (or HD DVD-Rs for that matter) are way too expensive for this task, and I'd stick to local storage (where a 120GB HDD will run you under $100), external storage (500GB for that same $100), or networked PC as a more convenient and cost-effective option.


lol, I thought you'd get a kick out of that one. FWIW, I placed you at 22-23 before you mentioned you were 20. Take that as a compliment or an insult at your own discretion. :)[/quote]
Rofl, no instult taken, people were saying I looked 22 when I was 17. ;)

And the hard drive space thing is irrelevant, Blu-ray disc can hold more divx movies than HD-DVD. ;)
One guy even called me 28!

All I know geko is when I turned on that stupid search for media server PC my PS3 would constantly disconnect from the network, I turned it off, it stopped. And because of that, I am very skeptical to do that.
 
[quote name='H.Cornerstone']And the hard drive space thing is irrelevant, Blu-ray disc can hold more divx movies than HD-DVD. ;)[/quote]
I think it's quite relevant when the only Blu-Ray player that can play divx is the PS3 (hence hard drives being a logical option), and you can get 10 times the storage for only 3 times the price in an external drive, not counting the $700 you'd have to shell out for a burner. So for the $730 it costs to get the first 50GB onto the PS3 via DL BD-R, I could get 3.5 terabytes. To get to the one terabyte mark via BD-Rs costs $1140 with SL BD-R, or $1300 for DL BD-R. To get to one terabyte via external storage costs $200. Which makes more sense?

[quote name='H.Cornerstone'] All I know geko is when I turned on that stupid search for media server PC my PS3 would constantly disconnect from the network, I turned it off, it stopped. And because of that, I am very skeptical to do that.[/quote]
I'll play with this and get back to you. Reports on AVS are that the PS3 makes a great client, so we might just have to identify a small problem with your setup and you'll be golden. It'll take me a bit, as working full time, going to school full time, and caring for an infant makes for precious little free time, but we'll get your shit working no problemo.
 
[quote name='geko29']I think it's quite relevant when the only Blu-Ray player that can play divx is the PS3 (hence hard drives being a logical option), and you can get 10 times the storage for only 3 times the price in an external drive, not counting the $700 you'd have to shell out for a burner. So for the $730 it costs to get the first 50GB onto the PS3 via DL BD-R, I could get 3.5 terabytes. To get to the one terabyte mark via BD-Rs costs $1140 with SL BD-R, or $1300 for DL BD-R. To get to one terabyte via external storage costs $200. Which makes more sense?


I'll play with this and get back to you. Reports on AVS are that the PS3 makes a great client, so we might just have to identify a small problem with your setup and you'll be golden. It'll take me a bit, as working full time, going to school full time, and caring for an infant makes for precious little free time, but we'll get your shit working no problemo.[/quote]
I was kidding about the Blu-ray disc, my only point was the Blu-ray holds more divx movies than HD-DVD, hard drive or not.

And you don't need to bother, it's a problem with the my router, the WRT54G, it's a known problem and I have yet to find a fix for it.

EDIT:http://vibrantreality.wordpress.com/2007/10/27/ps3-and-linksys-wrt54g-the-solution/

Hi again !
I guess this is not such a great first content post, because it affects such a small number of people.
However, this has been so hard to resolve for me , I think this deserves to be posted.
Let me start by describing the problem.
In some cases the linksys wrt54g will reset ,and the network will crash, when a PS3 is trying to connect to the internet. This is because of the media server function. When you disable this function, it will work properly.
However, I really like streaming my media to my ps3 from my laptop, so I’ve been on a quest to find a better solution.
And I found it !
Read on to find out how.

First of all : you have to add a static IP adress to your PS3.
You can do this by selecting “manual” when prompted for “connection type”.
The IP adres I used is 192.168.1.108.
You can find your DNS adresses by using a PC. Click “Start”, and then click “Run” type “cmd” and press enter.
A command prompt will open. Type “ipconfig /all” and press enter. The prompt will output your computers IP adress (wich you don’t need), and the DNS servers.
Default router should be : 192.168.1.1
Leave all the other settings to their default settings.
Next, open your browser on your PC. Type “192.168.1.1″ in your adress bar and hit enter. You will be asked for a username & password. Fill in “admin” in the password field, and leave the username blank.
Click “applications & gaming”
Fill in these settings:

And save your changes.
Now click the administration tab, and Disable UPnP.
Save again.
This should take care of the problem.
If this helped you, please leave a small comment, because that will help this page come up higher in search engines. Registering is not required for commenting.
Thanks
Click to expand...

edit,f ound fix, let me see if I can make it work.
 
[quote name='LinkinPrime']Speaking of anime, someone once recommended that I watch a series that was people on rollerblades kinda like Jet Set Radio minus the tagging. I forgot what it was called though, anyone know?[/quote]
I don't know if it was already answered, but I believe the anime you're referring to is called Air Gear.

Btw, I watch anime too :wave:
 
[quote name='LinkinPrime']Is it good?[/quote]
I have no idea :mrgreen:

Ask some of the more hardcore anime/manga fans here
Edit: Had to fix the link, they started a new one the other day.

Oh Great! made this series, and I loved their other series 'Tenjho Tenge'

If that anime/manga was any indication of their standard for quality art/animation, then you won't be dissapointed in that department with regards to Air Gear, but that's as much as I know.
 
[quote name='H.Cornerstone']http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/790/santaclause3.html

Santa-Clause 3, a Buena Vista title, uses a VC-1 encode. I found this shocking as most of Buena Vista's newer titles use the AVC one.[/QUOTE]

You'd think a company that will have a channel showing all their shows soon in glorious HD(Disney Channel HD) would pay to shoot some of their stars music video's in HD.
edit: This is the company that was basically one of the big one's pushing HD before this format war. I mean shit in the old days of HD channels FOX was trying to get away with 480p WS to my knowledge. Also Starz wanted to just get away with a high resolution feed, clearly not up to snuff with HD standards I get the impression.
 
So did anyone read the article in Home Media about the Dual format disk Warner was going to put out, until 'Paramount went the other direction?

http://www.homemediamagazine.com/index.cfm?sec_id=2&newsid=11595

Heres the quote:
“It would be tough to proceed, since we are the last man standing in both formats,” Sanders said. “This only makes sense for studios supporting both formats, and since Paramount went the other way and retail didn’t push the issue, one studio isn’t enough for us to pull the trigger.”

Maybe I read into it too much originally. I was kind of interpreting it as though Warner wanted to go Blu. Now rereading it, that doesn't stick out so much.


Would the stores benefit by having dual formats over one format? I can imagine they would. Does anyone know the markup the store makes on either format? Is one more profitable for them than the other?
 
[quote name='Snake2715']
Does anyone know the markup the store makes on either format? Is one more profitable for them than the other?[/QUOTE]

I can't speak for Blu-ray since I wasn't buying them when my wife was still employed with Best Buy...but HD DVD it varied based on the type of release and overall cost (Best Buy's employee discount is the cost of the item to Best Buy plus five percent). For $24.99 HD DVD, it was about $19. For $29.99 Combo discs, it was about $26.50. For $34.99 Combo discs, it was about $31.

I imagine there's maybe a dollar shift here or there to overcompensate for Best Buy's discount.
 
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