- LOCK - Format War - HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray - LOCK -

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[quote name='dallow']He was asking Giz to prove that the "gap is closing" as Giz had stated earlier, and Giz refused to post a link like 4 times.

Not prove that Disney/Fox were paid as well.[/QUOTE]

As I said before, I won't be 'proving' that. If I post a link to some place, he will simply refute that and say 'Well that can't be counted'. There is NO point in doing so.

Watch this:
HD DVD stand alones are selling more then Blu-ray! Check out Amazon.com

#1 -- A2
#3 -- A20
#8 -- XA2
#13 -- A30
#21 -- A35

and further down the line (on the Blu-ray side):

#28 -- S300
#30 -- P1400
#43 -- P1200
#45. -- BD10AK

Thats going to me more sales of movies therefore closing the gap! We all know HD DVD has a better movie ratio to players then Blu-ray

And.....GO!

"Amazon.com does not count. Not everyone uses the internet to buy players. The majority are out B&M stores. Here is a link to this store in Kentucky that says they sell 1 HD DVD player for every 20 Blu-ray sold"
 
[quote name='rodeojones903']Fantastic Four seems to be selling well at amazon. Its currently sold out and shipping within 7 to 12 days.[/QUOTE]

...and a lot of people can't even play them on their stand alones. Samsung's can't seem to play the movie at all, and various others take MINUTES just to boot the disc up. Funny, the PS3 and Sony Stand alones work just fine... :lol:
 
[quote name='GizmoGC']As I said before, I won't be 'proving' that. If I post a link to some place, he will simply refute that and say 'Well that can't be counted'. There is NO point in doing so.[/quote]

:lol: You're pathetic.

Watch this:
HD DVD stand alones are selling more then Blu-ray! Check out Amazon.com

#1 -- A2
#3 -- A20
#8 -- XA2
#13 -- A30
#21 -- A35

and further down the line (on the Blu-ray side):

#28 -- S300
#30 -- P1400
#43 -- P1200
#45. -- BD10AK

Thats going to me more sales of movies therefore closing the gap! We all know HD DVD has a better movie ratio to players then Blu-ray

And.....GO!

"Amazon.com does not count. Not everyone uses the internet to buy players. The majority are out B&M stores. Here is a link to this store in Kentucky that says they sell 1 HD DVD player for every 20 Blu-ray sold"
Click to expand...

Well, Amazon rankings count for something, but they can also be vastly overstated, given that they merely reflect daily trends. The ranks you list, even if true, weren't true yesterday, and won't be true tomorrow.

As for the HD-A2 being #1, it's #1 in two ranking lists: HD DVD players (shocker there!), and "Portable DVD Players." :lol: It's ranked #51 in "electronics," however, and not #1, as you seem to imply.
 
[quote name='GizmoGC']! Check out Amazon.com
[/QUOTE]


Then I guess that proves the average consumer walking into Best Buy, Target, and others are picking Blu ray at a much larger rate than HD DVD, since the NPD numbers prove that Blu ray stand alones have started to outpace HD DVD. That is a much more important market than amazon.com.

The HD-A2 and HD-A20s are also discontinued, and won't be around much longer. The only player stocked currently at Best Buy is the $400 HD-A30.
 
I should get the Transformers BD soon, I'll comment on quality when I get it.

(original animated movie. so good, so good)

Also, Amazon rankings are stupid.
And we know the HD DVD standalones do well.

We're talking about software closing the gap, and it isn't.
 
[quote name='dallow']I should get the Transformers BD soon, I'll comment on quality when I get it.

(original animated movie. so good, so good)

Also, Amazon rankings are stupid.
And we know the HD DVD standalones do well.

We're talking about software closing the gap, and it isn't.[/quote]

Really!? :whistle2:k where's that imported from?
 
[quote name='geko29']Oh I didn't mean to say Transformers was going to permanently change the tide. Just that it's the first of many blockbusters (on both sides) that are going to cause the needle to swing WILDLY throughout the fourth quarter, which will make calculating the mean difficult.

Big and/or Huge releases as I see them:

Evan Almighty (HD) Oct. 9 (big, not huge)
Transformers (HD) Oct. 16
Spiderman (BR) 3 Oct. 30
Chuck and Larry (HD) Nov. 6 (big, not huge)
Ratatouille (BR) Nov. 6
Ocean's Thirteen (Neutral) Nov. 13
Shrek the Third (HD) Nov. 13
Star Trek: TOS (HD) Nov. 13
Hairspray (BR-timed) Nov. 13 (big, not huge)
Die Hard 4 (BR) Nov. 20
POTC 3 (BR) Dec. 4
Superbad (BR) Dec. 4 (big, not huge)
Bourne 3 (HD) Dec. 11
Harry Potter 1-5 (Neutral) Dec. 11
Rush Hour 3 (Unknown) Dec. 26[/quote]

The Simpson's?

I don't buy many movies (I think I bought like 5 DVDs ever) and I'm buying it.
 
somebody's at it again :lol:

http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3036760&postcount=970
to

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/10/03/panasonic-exec-says-blu-ray-will-win-soon/

We don't know what sort of crystal ball Matsushita (parent of Panasonic) exec Kazuhiro Tsuga has, but during a briefing at the CEATEC show this week in Japan he predicted: 1) a big Q4 2007 - Q1 2008 that will put Blu-ray on a path to win the format war; 2) an end to the format war in another year's time. Toeing the Blu-ray line, Tsuga also downplayed the Paramount defection to HD DVD, noting that it "only" lasts 18 months. We're not so sure we agree with your predictions or dismissal of the Paramount deal, Tsuga-san, but we are looking forward to the aggressive promotions (read: discounts and offers) that you say the studios want to see by the end of the year. Bring those cheap Blu-ray players to market, and let's all let the market decide, ok?
Click to expand...
 
[quote name='linkinprime']Really!? :whistle2:k where's that imported from?
[/quote]
I ordered it from Amazon UK.

No word on US release yet.
Hope it's good, it's 2-Discs!

BD only, sorry.
 
[quote name='H.Cornerstone']The original animated movie is Blu-ray exclusive, I don't think you even need to import it.

http://www.play.com/DVD/Blu-ray/4-/3434060/Transformers-The-Ultimate-Edition/Product.html
http://www.sendit.com/video/item/7001000137723
two sites though that you can, I can't find it on Amazon.

But, I could be wrong...[/quote] toei (who owns rights to transformers) is format neutral. Rhino (the co. which distributed the DVD in the U.S., Paramount distributed it in canada) is also format neutral.
 
[quote name='propeller_head']toei is format neutral. Rhino (the co. which distributed the DVD in the U.S., Paramount distributed it in canada) is also format neutral.[/quote]Where's the HD DVD?
 
[quote name='propeller_head']toei (who owns rights to transformers) is format neutral. Rhino (the co. which distributed the DVD in the U.S., Paramount distributed it in canada) is also format neutral.[/quote]

Last I heard Rhino was bought out by Sony, or atleast the rights to the Transformers G1/G2 cartoon series.

Let us know how that looks dallow...God I hope that they release a HD DVD version somwhere overseas...
 
[quote name='LinkinPrime']Last I heard Rhino was bought out by Sony, or atleast the rights to the Transformers G1/G2 cartoon series.

Let us know how that looks dallow...God I hope that they release a HD DVD version somwhere overseas...[/quote]

hmm never heard that. when did it happen? there are some Rhino HD DVDs

http://www.rhino.com/store/video_hd.lasso
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Well, Amazon rankings count for something, but they can also be vastly overstated, given that they merely reflect daily trends. The ranks you list, even if true, weren't true yesterday, and won't be true tomorrow.

As for the HD-A2 being #1, it's #1 in two ranking lists: HD DVD players (shocker there!), and "Portable DVD Players." :lol: It's ranked #51 in "electronics," however, and not #1, as you seem to imply.[/quote]

I hate to defend Gizmo, and like you, think Amazon's rankings amount to little more than a large anecdote, but:

HD DVD standalones (all of them) have been outselling Blu-Ray standalones (all of them) on Amazon for a LONG time. Currently, they're #1, #5, #10 and #16 in the "DVD Players" category. Highest BR player is the Samsung 1400 at #22 (actually higher than I've seen one in a while).

Obviously this has no bearing on PS3 sales that are used as BR players, nor should it be assumed to be an accurate reflection of the marketplace as a whole. It is what it is, rankings at Amazon. But within those limitations, Gizmo was not misrepresenting the facts--though he DID steal his post wholesale from another poster at AVS.
 
[quote name='dallow']Yeah, I'm not holding my breath on the PQ, but it should be nice.
Curious as to what the extras are.[/QUOTE]


Is it a region free disc? If so I'm going to order it today.
 
[quote name='geko29']though he DID steal his post wholesale from another poster at AVS.[/QUOTE]

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I should have guessed as much, seeing as how he aped one of your posts from here and went a trollin' with it at the Blu-ray.com forums.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

You may be right about gizmo not misrepresenting things, but he's too obnoxious to be that stupid all the time. I think a selective presentation of facts, put in the context of what he posts, suggests that there was full knowledge of the limitations of citing Amazon sales beforehand.
 
[quote name='rodeojones903']Is it a region free disc? If so I'm going to order it today.[/quote]I believe it's region ABC, so you're set.

Let me verify though.
 
[quote name='geko29']I hate to defend Gizmo, and like you, think Amazon's rankings amount to little more than a large anecdote, but:

HD DVD standalones (all of them) have been outselling Blu-Ray standalones (all of them) on Amazon for a LONG time. Currently, they're #1, #5, #10 and #16 in the "DVD Players" category. Highest BR player is the Samsung 1400 at #22 (actually higher than I've seen one in a while).

Obviously this has no bearing on PS3 sales that are used as BR players, nor should it be assumed to be an accurate reflection of the marketplace as a whole. It is what it is, rankings at Amazon. But within those limitations, Gizmo was not misrepresenting the facts--though he DID steal his post wholesale from another poster at AVS.[/quote]

I put some credit into Amazon, but not a lot, like Myke I think B&M stores are more popular when it comes to hardware, however I put a lot of stock into Software sales on Amazon because that seems to be where all the die-hards by their movies since they are so much cheaper. Like was said, HD-A1 has been #1 on Amazon for a while, but then there was the 12 week period that Blu-ray's outsold HD-DVD's.
 
[quote name='rodeojones903']Is it a region free disc? If so I'm going to order it today.[/quote]Yup, it's region free.
And I was wrong about it being 2 disc. That was the remastered DVD.

It has a sweet 1500kbps DTS track too.
 
Am I obnoxious? Sure, from time to time. Of course, for you to point that out while failing to acknowledge your own participation is a bit delusional, don't you think?

But I'm obnoxious and right, so that's what separates us. I wouldn't dare say something silly like "I have information that blu-ray is outselling HD 300-to-1, but I'm not going to show it to you!"

Instead, I say, let's take a look at the weekly numbers from Nielsen and Soundscan, which consistently show that HD DVD is outsold 2-to-1 week after week after week after week (keep adding weeks until you have just under 52).

;)
 
[quote name='dallow']Yup, it's region free.
And I was wrong about it being 2 disc. That was the remastered DVD.

It has a sweet 1500kbps DTS track too.[/QUOTE]


Thanks dallow.

[quote name='dallow']There are no Fry's locations in your area right?

For 2 grand, you can get 50+" Sony XBR4 LCDs there.[/QUOTE]

I can't believe that Fry's sells a $4500 TV for 2 grand.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8460685&st=xbr+4&type=product&id=1184369373431

Did you mean the XBR 2?
 
[quote name='PapiChullo']I have a 32" Regza, and absolutely love it. I'm not sure about the value as far as that one compared to others in the same size range, but I'm sure you wouldn't be disappointed.[/quote]

good to hear.. ive heard good things
 
[quote name='mykevermin']:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I should have guessed as much, seeing as how he aped one of your posts from here and went a trollin' with it at the Blu-ray.com forums.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

You may be right about gizmo not misrepresenting things, but he's too obnoxious to be that stupid all the time. I think a selective presentation of facts, put in the context of what he posts, suggests that there was full knowledge of the limitations of citing Amazon sales beforehand.[/QUOTE]

Geko has some pretty damn good posts. Why not, lol. Its too fun to stir shit over at Blu-ray.com, most of those posters are nuts.

As for the numbers on Amazon, are those to be dismissed as well?
HD DVD players are outselling Blu-ray by pretty damn big numbers. The $200 Venturer will only help stand alones sales, therefore helping software. We already know HD DVD has a great ratio to players, so a couple hundred thousand more sold can only be GOOD things.
 
"a couple hundred thousand" would increase the number of HD DVD players in consumer hands by 67%, so I wouldn't toss that number around as if it's so easy a task to accomplish. It took roughly 16-18 months to geto 300K out there.

I've stated my case on the poor reliability of Amazon sales rankings. They reflect daily sales only. Tell you what. Check them every day at the same time for a whole month, and then average them out. Give me THAT information and I'll be much more accepting. However, saying "right now, the HDA2 is #1!" only reflects its sales FOR THAT DAY.

It's like telling me "the Cincinnati Reds beat the Yankees!" when you're referring to a single game. Big deal, man. Who's in the playoffs now after 162 games? :lol: (dammit!) Understand?

Also, knowing fully bloody well that shopping habits of early adopters fade away after awhile, it's a fallacy to think that the high attach rate for HD DVD players will hold up once more people buy it; once it hits "mass market penetration" (if HD DVD is alive by then), you'll see that attach rate decline.

At the moment, you see people buying movies to "support the cause," to use a political phrase (both hidef format types protest-like approach to "buy days" drives me up the fuckin' wall, and it's a shambles of idiocy, IMO). The PS3 already has huge penetration for a hidef disc format, thus accounting for (some, to be clear; some, but not all) of the far lower attach rate - if you own a standalone, you need to buy movies to get the most out of it, and with the PS3, many don't know about BR, and others don't care. It doesn't mean they never will buy a BR movie, but there are alternative means of getting your money's worth from the console.

As for not aping geko's post? Well, geko's a wise person. If you're going to steal from someone, that's a good place to start. But it shows *just how disingenuous you are* that you'll post someone else's words (there and here) and take credit for it. Your willful hiding of pertinent information is a greater indictment of bias and insidiousness than anyone in this thread can display.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']"a couple hundred thousand" would increase the number of HD DVD players in consumer hands by 67%, so I wouldn't toss that number around as if it's so easy a task to accomplish. It took roughly 16-18 months to geto 300K out there.

I've stated my case on the poor reliability of Amazon sales rankings. They reflect daily sales only. Tell you what. Check them every day at the same time for a whole month, and then average them out. Give me THAT information and I'll be much more accepting. However, saying "right now, the HDA2 is #1!" only reflects its sales FOR THAT DAY.

It's like telling me "the Cincinnati Reds beat the Yankees!" when you're referring to a single game. Big deal, man. Who's in the playoffs now after 162 games? :lol: (dammit!) Understand?

Also, knowing fully bloody well that shopping habits of early adopters fade away after awhile, it's a fallacy to think that the high attach rate for HD DVD players will hold up once more people buy it; once it hits "mass market penetration" (if HD DVD is alive by then), you'll see that attach rate decline.

At the moment, you see people buying movies to "support the cause," to use a political phrase (both hidef format types protest-like approach to "buy days" drives me up the fuckin' wall, and it's a shambles of idiocy, IMO). The PS3 already has huge penetration for a hidef disc format, thus accounting for (some, to be clear; some, but not all) of the far lower attach rate - if you own a standalone, you need to buy movies to get the most out of it, and with the PS3, many don't know about BR, and others don't care. It doesn't mean they never will buy a BR movie, but there are alternative means of getting your money's worth from the console.

As for not aping geko's post? Well, geko's a wise person. If you're going to steal from someone, that's a good place to start. But it shows *just how disingenuous you are* that you'll post someone else's words (there and here) and take credit for it. Your willful hiding of pertinent information is a greater indictment of bias and insidiousness than anyone in this thread can display.[/quote]

i think you should just put that beer money of yours toward a nice new hd player...
 
[quote name='Chris in Cali']You shouldn't because in a month black friday will hit, and you can save $600+ on those sets.[/quote]

i thought about that as well... but i think the longer i wait.. the more my current tv will lose value....i wonder if these name brand toshiba's will drop by alot
 
[quote name='H.Cornerstone']UHhhh. the 40inch XBR4 is only 2500 at Best Buy, so I am guessing he means that one...[/QUOTE]


Yeah, probably just a typo. I highly recommend the Samsung 4071 over the XBR4. I had and XBR4 for about three weeks, and then swapped to the Samsung once it came out to see which was better. The Samsung is better in every aspect. I had horrible clouding on the Sony, where the Samsung has none. The black levels on the Samsung are a ton better as well.


On a side note, I ordered Transformers: The Movie from sendit.com and 4 hours later I had a shipping conformation. Color me impressed.
 
so did any of you have a 720p lcd set prior to upgrading to 1080p? was it worth it..

also i was looking at the 42in specs and noticed 60/24. I assume the 47in as well but not sure.
 
Holy crap, sales are even worse than we thought. Official release week numbers for "The Condemned" were just announced, which allowed user SGRSBSKIER on AVS to calculate sales for the top 10 SKUs:

Troy -------------------- 3822
300 BD ------------------ 3770
Condemned --------------- 3015
We are Marshall HD ------ 2363
We are Marshall BD ------ 1992
300 HD ------------------ 1877
PE BD -------------------- 1694
PE HD -------------------- 1332
Smallville HD ------------- 1248
Casino Royale ------------ 1176
Batman Begins ------------ 925

Absolutely pathetic. Estimates are hovering around 30k discs sold total between both formats that week. I'll whip up the top 10 aggregate by title and post it here in a few minutes.
 
Redid the list. Numbers are obviously approximate, but should be close (within a few units):

Top sellers by SKU:

Troy: Director's Cut BD -------------------- 3822 New Catalog, title previously unreleased
300 BD ----------------------------------- 3770
The Condemned -------------------------- 3015 Day and Date
We are Marshall HD ----------------------- 2363 Day and Date
We are Marshall BD ----------------------- 1992 Day and Date
300 HD ----------------------------------- 1876
PE BD ------------------------------------ 1694
PE HD ------------------------------------ 1332
Smallville: The Complete Sixth Season HD -- 1248 Day and Date
Casino Royale ---------------------------- 1176
Troy: Director's Cut HD ------------------- 1182 New Catalog, title previously released
Batman Begins --------------------------- 925
Smallville: The Complete Sixth Season BD -- 652 Day and Date

Top sellers by Title:

300 -------------------------------------- 5646
Troy: Director's Cut ----------------------- 5003 New Catalog
We Are Marshall -------------------------- 4356 Day and Date
Planet Earth: The Complete Series --------- 3026
The Condemned -------------------------- 3015 Day and Date
Smallville: The Complete Sixth Season ----- 1900 Day and Date
Deliverance ------------------------------ 1204 New Catalog
Casino Royale ---------------------------- 1176
Alexander Revisited: The Final Cut -------- 1135 New Catalog, title previously unreleased
The Departed ---------------------------- 1056
Batman Begins --------------------------- 925

That puts the top 11 titles at ~28,442 total sold between both formats.
 
[quote name='guyver2077']so did any of you have a 720p lcd set prior to upgrading to 1080p? was it worth it..

also i was looking at the 42in specs and noticed 60/24. I assume the 47in as well but not sure.[/quote] for 20/20 vision

http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/12/09/1080p-charted-viewing-distance-to-screen-size/
resolution_chart.jpg
 
[quote name='LinkinPrime']Just love the way Sony spun their "exclusivity" with Target...the Venturer HD DVD player is up for preorder at Target.com...downside, it was rumored to have a $199 tag...could be a placeholder price though....
http://www.target.com/gp/detail.htm...8/602-5966993-0459057?ie=UTF8&asin=B000W7O43U[/QUOTE]


Its shows that it will only be available online. I don't see why everyone thinks this is the savior of HD DVD. Its only $50 cheaper and comes from a piece of shit manufacturer. Toshiba needs to get someone of quality on board.
 
[quote name='geko29']Redid the list. Numbers are obviously approximate, but should be close (within a few units):

Top sellers by SKU:

Troy: Director's Cut BD -------------------- 3822 New Catalog, title previously unreleased
300 BD ----------------------------------- 3770
The Condemned -------------------------- 3015 Day and Date
We are Marshall HD ----------------------- 2363 Day and Date
We are Marshall BD ----------------------- 1992 Day and Date
300 HD ----------------------------------- 1876
PE BD ------------------------------------ 1694
PE HD ------------------------------------ 1332
Smallville: The Complete Sixth Season HD -- 1248 Day and Date
Casino Royale ---------------------------- 1176
Troy: Director's Cut HD ------------------- 1182 New Catalog, title previously released
Batman Begins --------------------------- 925
Smallville: The Complete Sixth Season BD -- 652 Day and Date

Top sellers by Title:

300 -------------------------------------- 5646
Troy: Director's Cut ----------------------- 5003 New Catalog
We Are Marshall -------------------------- 4356 Day and Date
Planet Earth: The Complete Series --------- 3026
The Condemned -------------------------- 3015 Day and Date
Smallville: The Complete Sixth Season ----- 1900 Day and Date
Deliverance ------------------------------ 1204 New Catalog
Casino Royale ---------------------------- 1176
Alexander Revisited: The Final Cut -------- 1135 New Catalog, title previously unreleased
The Departed ---------------------------- 1056
Batman Begins --------------------------- 925

That puts the top 11 titles at ~28,442 total sold between both formats.[/quote]

Excuse my ignorance Geko, but do these numbers show that outside of people who regularly post on web forums, no-one gives a shit about HD-DVD or Blu-Ray.

Well for that week at least.
 
[quote name='rodeojones903']Its shows that it will only be available online. I don't see why everyone thinks this is the savior of HD DVD. Its only $50 cheaper and comes from a piece of shit manufacturer. Toshiba needs to get someone of quality on board.[/quote]
Too soon to tell if its online only. Target usually indicates "Online Only" right on the page...we'll see what happens when its in-stock. Even if it turns out to be online only, it totally dismisses Sony's claims that Target "chose" Blu-Ray.
 
A new report indicates that although only a tiny percentage of Netflix users are high-def early adopters, among them HD DVD appears to be favored over Blu-ray by a factor of more than two-to-one.


According to data released by web metrics site Compete.com (see chart below), out of an average 14 million monthly visitors to Netflix from June-August of 2007, only 48,000 (0.3%) viewed the site's genre pages for either HD DVD or Blu-ray.

Curiously, although those who looked at Blu-ray titles outnumbered those looking at HD-DVD by a factor of 1.8 to 1, among those who set an high-def format as their preferred disc format, HD-DVD was chosen over Blu-ray by a factor of 2.4 to 1.
Click to expand...

original.pjpeg


http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/s...ntals/Report:_Netflix_Users_Favor_HD_DVD/1036

Guess it wasn't split in half after all.
 
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