LOST - The Final Season - LOST Auction Aug 21-22 (Post 1439)

[quote name='pacifickarma']Oh, and anyone else see the glowing cave and think of Marcellus Wallace's briefcase in Pulp Fiction?[/QUOTE]

absolutely the 1st thing that crossed my mind!

i'm another concerned on how this series will end and i see a disappointing end that will rival the seinfeld finale. i was hoping this episode would be a back story of the island which we've yet to see and would have preferred to see before the last 2-4 episodes of the series.

i really don't understand the rules that bind jacob, MiB and all the supernatural forces of the island. i would also like to know why o815 and it's people were chosen. here's hoping the last episodes do a lot of 'splainin.

oh and i thought the MiB name was Esau?
 
[quote name='slidecage']last night show would been good IF it was the first or 2nd show of the season.. with only 2 left it was just plain stupid to put that on now.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, this show should have been on way earlier in the season. That's why its getting so much flack, this far into the end of the show each episode should be good if not awesome. This mediocre looks terrible since its so far into the season.

If it was shown earlier it would have made a case for why smoke monster wasn't evil. But in the last episode they bashed us over the head with how evil smoke monster was by killing 4 people and trying to blow up the rest. The writers of the show even said the smoke monster is evil on the EW web interview.

So why make him sympathetic now?
 
I don't know. I thought this episode was great, as has been most of the season. It explained a hell of a lot, actually, though it did bring up more questions. I enjoyed it very much the whole way through.
 
[quote name='Jesus_S_Preston']This was obviously done because they wanted to save the twist of them being brothers for this episode.

Seriously guys?

Flocke and MIB have the exact same goal.
Flocke went on about "having a crazy mother"
MIB told Richard that Jacob "stole his body"

There's no reason to think that MIB and Smoke-MIB are different.

And there was no magic drink that made Richard immortal, Jacob just touched him and it happened. It's part of Jacob's magical abilities he got by a Gypsy casting a spell on him or whatever the hell happened in this stupid episode.[/QUOTE]

You are right about MIB, I completely forgot that he was talking to Kate about having a crazy mom. Still though, this episode made me feel bad for MIB, and on it's own I would totally think Jacob was the bad guy. From what I read about last week, all of the deaths were done to make us hate MIB and show he is 'evil', yet this episode does the exact opposite.
 
[quote name='Ryukahn']You are right about MIB, I completely forgot that he was talking to Kate about having a crazy mom. Still though, this episode made me feel bad for MIB, and on it's own I would totally think Jacob was the bad guy. From what I read about last week, all of the deaths were done to make us hate MIB and show he is 'evil', yet this episode does the exact opposite.[/QUOTE]

I think this episode shows that good and evil are blurred. It created deeper characters rather than just the evil MiB and the good Jacob
 
Hey guys I just got this game and I only have the controller (getting a stick soon) and I am not that good, but my gamertag is cdietschrunFAST and would love to play with you guys/learn.
 
[quote name='SoulReaver']I think this episode shows that good and evil are blurred. It created deeper characters rather than just the evil MiB and the good Jacob[/QUOTE]

They had been doing that all season. An interview I read said they specifically killed off Jin, Sun, and Sayid to erase all doubt that smokey might be good. This episode goes right back to making you guess.
 
I have to think that by sending MIB down the river the smoke monster somehow imprisioned/swallowed his soul - that sure sounds like "a fate worse than death" to me. If just his mind was transferred into the smoke monster (rather than the smoke monster devoured his soul completely) that's honestly not that horrible of a fate since a) his mother already planned on him being the one who lived forever which he will do as Smokey and b) he still wants to get off the island - not much changes for him except that with the smoke powers hes actually now better suited to manipulate people into helping him leave.

I think that smokey just appears to Jacob as his brother in the same way that he appears to everyone else as someone familiar - and since the original MIB is dead according to everything we have seen so far (IIRC) he has no problem taking his form and tormenting Jacob.

(The only thing my theory doesnt cover is why it cant kill Jacob... maybe its because Jacob freed it?)
 
[quote name='austenwithane']I have to think that by sending MIB down the river the smoke monster somehow imprisioned/swallowed his soul - that sure sounds like "a fate worse than death" to me. If just his mind was transferred into the smoke monster (rather than the smoke monster devoured his soul completely) that's honestly not that horrible of a fate since a) his mother already planned on him being the one who lived forever which he will do as Smokey and b) he still wants to get off the island - not much changes for him except that with the smoke powers hes actually now better suited to manipulate people into helping him leave.

I think that smokey just appears to Jacob as his brother in the same way that he appears to everyone else as someone familiar - and since the original MIB is dead according to everything we have seen so far (IIRC) he has no problem taking his form and tormenting Jacob.

(The only thing my theory doesnt cover is why it cant kill Jacob... maybe its because Jacob freed it?)[/QUOTE]


I kinda agree with this. I just assumed that since jacob and now the "candidates" can't be hurt is because they are deemed protectors, hence why Richard isn't blown up... well Jack isn't either. They are "protected". So even if the smoke monster, which I think isn't the orig MIB, tries to hurt/kill, it just won't work.


We're still thinking the island is a "hell" or at least a prison... the prison is keeping the smoke monster contained, and the warden (candidate) will not allow it to escape unless he agrees to go with or is dead.
 
Any episode that sheds light on backstories is a good one, for me. I mean, pre-smokey wasn't bitten by a spider over some stolen diamonds, right?

Side note. MIB was never called Esau on the show, right? I mean, the biblical comparison is obvious (Jacob "steals" his brother's birthright....etc...), but did anyone ever call him that? His mom said she only had one name before
the thing...how the f do spoiler tags work?
.
 
[quote name='Stoneage'] spoiler the thing...how the f do spoiler tags work?spoiler.[/QUOTE]

Just make sure you end with[/SPOILER] after the
with the hidden text inbetween.
 
I went through all the posts at dvdtalk and don't feel like reading all the ones in here, but what do you guys think about my theorizing?

My impression of the Fmother is that she had dual roles (both was the previous smokie and the light's protector simultaneously). She ended up killing the real mother in the beginning after the 2nd child was born because she realized she'd finally be able to die once she could split her responsibilities between the two, picking one as the protector and knowing that her death would eventually lead to the other becoming the smokie given the vengeance the other son would have at her death and the knowledge there was another role that had to be filled by MIB.


She originally thought MIB would become the protector until he chose to live with the humans and knew that his exposure to the humans would lead to him not having hope in mankind but knew he couldn't become the protector due to his mistrust of her due to her lying to him. She stated that neither could "hurt" each other but I think that only meant they couldn't kill each other, they could still beat each up other up short of the point of death but this may not have been actually true until they became their destined roles (she may have just wanted them both to believe they couldn't "hurt" each other, and they never really tested out trying to kill each other beforehand).


So, after MIB joined the humans, she had no choice except to make Jacob the protector, and when she had Jacob drink the mystical water, he gained the knowledge or instinct that he had to get MIB to become smokie for balance on the island vs. the Fmother knew Jacob would end up doing that as revenge since she said it was a fate worse than death. Jacob knocked MIB unconscious but did not kill him in any direct manner as he'd already become the protector, just let his body float into the cave where his physical body was separated from his soul and the soul manifested as smokie. Sayid didn't kill Flocke a few eps back since Flocke talked to him before he stabbed him, but MIB stabbed Fmother before she knew he was present and since she had gotten rid of the protector role, maybe she finally achieved the susceptibility to be killed (since smokies can only be killed by humans before a smokie knows they're there and MIB hadn't become smokie yet).


Maybe Fmother knew that smokie couldn't/shouldn't leave the island for the purpose to be a counterweight to Jacob because she knew Jacob would eventually develop hope for mankind and eventually bring more humans to the island to try and prove fMother wrong. Possibly, smokie couldn't leave the island until *after* the protector was killed and all the current candidates are too and now has a deal with Widmore to let him have the island in exchange for his help to get off the island. I'm sure there are plenty of holes and such but this is my working theory
 
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[quote name='jamezuva']I went through all the posts at dvdtalk and don't feel like reading all the ones in here, but what do you guys think about my theorizing?

My impression of the Fmother is that she had dual roles (both was the previous smokie and the light's protector simultaneously). She ended up killing the real mother in the beginning after the 2nd child was born because she realized she'd finally be able to die once she could split her responsibilities between the two, picking one as the protector and knowing that her death would eventually lead to the other becoming the smokie given the vengeance the other son would have at her death and the knowledge there was another role that had to be filled by MIB. She originally thought MIB would become the protector until he chose to live with the humans and knew that his exposure to the humans would lead to him not having hope in mankind but knew he couldn't become the protector due to his mistrust of her due to her lying to him. She stated that neither could "hurt" each other but I think that only meant they couldn't kill each other, they could still beat each up other up short of the point of death but this may not have been actually true until they became their destined roles (she may have just wanted them both to believe they couldn't "hurt" each other, and they never really tested out trying to kill each other beforehand). So after MIB joined the humans, she had no choice except to make Jacob the protector, and when she had Jacob drink the mystical water, he gained the knowledge or instinct that he had to get MIB to become smokie for balance on the island vs. the Fmother knew Jacob would end up doing that as revenge since she said it was a fate worse than death. Jacob knocked MIB unconscious but did not kill him in any direct manner as he'd already become the protector, just let his body float into the cave where his physical body was separated from his soul and the soul manifested as smokie. Sayid didn't kill Flocke a few eps back since Flocke talked to him before he stabbed him, but MIB stabbed Fmother before she knew he was present and since she had gotten rid of the protector role, maybe she finally achieved the susceptibility to be killed (since smokies can only be killed by humans before a smokie knows they're there and MIB hadn't become smokie yet). Maybe Fmother knew that smokie couldn't/shouldn't leave the island for the purpose to be a counterweight to Jacob because she knew Jacob would eventually develop hope for mankind and eventually bring more humans to the island to try and prove fMother wrong. Possibly, smokie couldn't leave the island until *after* the protector was killed and all the current candidates are too and now has a deal with Widmore to let him have the island in exchange for his help to get off the island. I'm sure there are plenty of holes and such but this is my working theory[/QUOTE]


oww
 
You know, I was thinking about this:

The island purpose of the candidates is for someone to replace Jacob, right?

Jack wants to stay on the island and do his destiny thing. MIB wants to leave. Jack wants to stop him. Everyone else wants to leave.

So why doesn't Jack just stay behind and become New Jacob, and everyone else can climb down beneath the Orchid, spin the donkey wheel, and end up back on the mainland?

Bing, bang, boom. The island's got a new protector, MIB is still trapped, the other candidates aren't needed anymore, and everyone else can go home.
 
I assume it's against the "rules" to smoke monster fly right off the island as well? I mean you would think he would try breaking the rules, what's the worst that can happen he "dies"?
 
[quote name='jamezuva']That better, whiners? :roll:[/QUOTE]

Relax, man. I have a high tolerance for hard-to-read stuff. I am registered at GameFAQs, after all. But stuff like that is really hard to follow.

[quote name='ImLuhkee']I assume it's against the "rules" to smoke monster fly right off the island as well? I mean you would think he would try breaking the rules, what's the worst that can happen he "dies"?[/QUOTE]

He apparently doesn't have the ability to travel over large bodies of water. Maybe just saltwater... who knows? He couldn't even travel from the main island to the Hydra island.
 
Count me among those let down by the episode.

I was really looking forward to finding out what the deal was with Jacob and the MiB, but that wsa just a lame backstory. I'd have rather them just left that unexplained and up to our imagination as to what they were if that was the best origin they could come up with.

Oh well, at least the last two shows will be focused back on the main characters.
 
So does smokey = MIB or was smokey using MIB's body/appearance before Locke? I am now 95% convinced the writes had no idea what the hell they were doing.
 
im fairly certain that the smoke monster is not MIB, just using his body like he used christians, remis, lockes, etc. MIBs body was laid to rest in the caves and was found later, pretty sure he died on the island like everyone else.
 
[quote name='javeryh']So does smokey = MIB or was smokey using MIB's body/appearance before Locke? I am now 95% convinced the writes had no idea what the hell they were doing.[/QUOTE]

I don't think they are the same, and I agree the writers had no clue what they were doing back in season 1.
 
[quote name='javeryh']So does smokey = MIB or was smokey using MIB's body/appearance before Locke? I am now 95% convinced the writes had no idea what the hell they were doing.[/QUOTE]

Smokey and MIB are the same. When Jacob threw him into the Cave of Fate Worse than Death, he got a fate worse than death and became the smoke monster, his empty shell of a body floating down the river, for all purposes "dead".
 
I'm thinking that the woman wasn't herself the smoke before Jacob's brother went through the light, but that maybe she could control it and knew about it. That would explain how she knew would happen if you went into the light and how she killed all those people. If she was the smoke, then I don't see how she would have had a body to decay after she was killed since Jacob's brother's body was dead after going through the light and decayed independently of the smoke.

Either that or there was no smoke before and she was just a fucking ninja or can only be killed with a special knife or in a particular way.

The smoke has to be made up of dark souls or something though. They already said how the whispers were all the souls that can't get off the island, maybe the smoke is all the dark ones, ones with confidence issues or some shit.
 
[quote name='javeryh']So does smokey = MIB or was smokey using MIB's body/appearance before Locke? I am now 95% convinced the writes had no idea what the hell they were doing.[/QUOTE]
They've invested too much into Smokey = MIB up to this point to reverse on that.

A big part of this episode is that we learn that the guy Jacob's been chatting with on the beach is his BROTHER. However, if the idea is that Smokey != MIB, then the guy Jacob has been chatting with is just some evil dude.

So I say Smokey = MIB. Maybe the producers are trying to muddle it as we get closer to the end. It's a little superficial suspense so they can keep the bleety horns into the commercial breaks.
 
[quote name='RAMSTORIA']im fairly certain that the smoke monster is not MIB, just using his body like he used christians, remis, lockes, etc. MIBs body was laid to rest in the caves and was found later, pretty sure he died on the island like everyone else.[/QUOTE]

[quote name='Ryukahn']I don't think they are the same, and I agree the writers had no clue what they were doing back in season 1.[/QUOTE]

[quote name='Jesus_S_Preston']Smokey and MIB are the same. When Jacob threw him into the Cave of Fate Worse than Death, he got a fate worse than death and became the smoke monster, his empty shell of a body floating down the river, for all purposes "dead".[/QUOTE]

[quote name='dothog']They've invested too much into Smokey = MIB up to this point to reverse on that.

A big part of this episode is that we learn that the guy Jacob's been chatting with on the beach is his BROTHER. However, if the idea is that Smokey != MIB, then the guy Jacob has been chatting with is just some evil dude.

So I say Smokey = MIB. Maybe the producers are trying to muddle it as we get closer to the end. It's a little superficial suspense so they can keep the bleety horns into the commercial breaks.[/QUOTE]

LOL - so it's not just me then.
 
[quote name='Segasonic01']Im taking the smokey is not MIB side. And Im also with the group that says the writes had no friggin clue what they were doing[/QUOTE]


I like the MIB.
I dont like Smokey.

MIB RIP 2000 years ago due to the numnut jacob throwing him into the Cave of Light
 
[quote name='pacifickarma']
Oh, and anyone else see the glowing cave and think of Marcellus Wallace's briefcase in Pulp Fiction?[/QUOTE]
Exact same thought here. (lil back story: my wife has watched the entire season 6 with me but not seen 1-5, so I kinda fill her in at parts) Soon as the yellow glow came I said "no shit!!! just like the breifcase!!!" She asked what season the briefcase was from and I said "you know, from pulp fiction!!"


I unfortunately see this series ending as if it were a canceled show. People will look back like "man, this really should have not been canceled so they could have explained everything in season 7."
 
it sucks that such a promising show squandered its potential - which was readily apparent in this last episode - especially given how good the writing was early on in the series. season 6 as a whole has been overwhelmingly disappointing, but this latest episode just reinforces the position that many have expressed that the writers have no fucking clue what they're doing. at this point i think they're like "oh shit the show is still on and we came up with too many questions so we just need to make some BS up to finish this off." they cannot possibly answer the biggest questions that have drien every season, such as why ben exiled widmore and became leader of the others, what happened to eloise hawking (like why she was on the island, how she came to control the lamp post, etc), why the others/dharma women couldn't have babies, the significance of the freighter people, how the US army knew where the island was, what's the real story with the frozen wheel of time's magic ability to "move" the island, why the "exit" to the island is in the desert, what the hell "room 23" was all about, what's up with the cabin, the rings of ash/gunpowder...i could keep going, but i think you get the point. i naively assumed the writers had a meta-narrative in mind when they were creating these sort of cliff-hanger plot elements, with but 3.5 hours of LOST left, it's obvious they were just trying to get people to keep watching without having a clue where they were going.
 
[quote name='jful']it sucks that such a promising show squandered its potential - which was readily apparent in this last episode - especially given how good the writing was early on in the series. season 6 as a whole has been overwhelmingly disappointing, but this latest episode just reinforces the position that many have expressed that the writers have no fucking clue what they're doing. at this point i think they're like "oh shit the show is still on and we came up with too many questions so we just need to make some BS up to finish this off." they cannot possibly answer the biggest questions that have drien every season, such as why ben exiled widmore and became leader of the others, what happened to eloise hawking (like why she was on the island, how she came to control the lamp post, etc), why the others/dharma women couldn't have babies, the significance of the freighter people, how the US army knew where the island was, what's the real story with the frozen wheel of time's magic ability to "move" the island, why the "exit" to the island is in the desert, what the hell "room 23" was all about, what's up with the cabin, the rings of ash/gunpowder...i could keep going, but i think you get the point. i naively assumed the writers had a meta-narrative in mind when they were creating these sort of cliff-hanger plot elements, with but 3.5 hours of LOST left, it's obvious they were just trying to get people to keep watching without having a clue where they were going.[/QUOTE]
Oooo dont say that, there are a few people here that think Lost is the greatest show ever & is 100% perfect in every way. They should be along to whine about your post soon...

I, however, agree with you.
 
I wonder how much of the story was mapped out 6 years ago and how much of it is just being cobbled together right now.
 
[quote name='Magehart']I wonder how much of the story was mapped out 6 years ago and how much of it is just being cobbled together right now.[/QUOTE]
id say about 90% has been cobbled together since the beginning of S5

Also, the Richard episode, while amazing, should not have been this season. It shoulda been in Season 3. They crammed it in cuz they were like "o shit, we got 8 eps left & forgot to tell Richard's backstory that everyone has wanted to hear since Season 3. Lets throw that in now"
 
[quote name='Segasonic01']Oooo dont say that, there are a few people here that think Lost is the greatest show ever & is 100% perfect in every way. They should be along to whine about your post soon...

I, however, agree with you.[/QUOTE]

Trolling much?

I'd agree with the post however that would be nice to get every answer to every question we have.
 
when the lost writers agreed to end the show in 6 seasons, i thought that it was a very good idea to set a time limit on the show to wrap everything up. but in hindsight it seems to have made things worse. the biggest problem is that season 5 should have set more up than it did. i loved season 5, but as far as moving the story towards the end, i dont think it did much save for a few episodes. so now season 6 is trying to make it all fit. i still think they can do it, or at least i hope i do. and i still thing the flash sideways will play a big role in how they wrap it up (for better or for worse).
 
Yeah, that's really the issue. They gave themselves a 3 year deadline, but season 4 and 5 did very little to move the main plot forward.

Both were very good seasons on their own, but neither related really at all to the Jacob/MiB story which now seems to be the main plot point of the series.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']Yeah, that's really the issue. They gave themselves a 3 year deadline, but season 4 and 5 did very little to move the main plot forward.

Both were very good seasons on their own, but neither related really at all to the Jacob/MiB story which now seems to be the main plot point of the series.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, after looking back it was too much about the people and not about the real story which they are cramming into this last season.

I bet they could do a 7th season and end it there.... wonder why only 6.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']Yeah, that's really the issue. They gave themselves a 3 year deadline, but season 4 and 5 did very little to move the main plot forward.

Both were very good seasons on their own, but neither related really at all to the Jacob/MiB story which now seems to be the main plot point of the series.[/QUOTE]

yeah, like i said, i enjoyed both seasons (more so season 5), but the main story just inched along and because of the deadline they now need to cram it all in this season.

[quote name='xycury']Yeah, after looking back it was too much about the people and not about the real story which they are cramming into this last season.

I bet they could do a 7th season and end it there.... wonder why only 6.[/QUOTE]

well they committed to six, its too late to add a 7th now, they should have tried to negotiate that after season 4 or midway through season 5.
 
I'll see where it goes, but it does seem at this point that they haven't made it where they should have as far as the background to the story goes.

I don't think every question has to be answered though.
 
Yeah I don't think every question needs answered. They just need to wrap up the main plot in a satisfactory manner.

The one thing that does bother me that I don't see getting fixed is that the Dharma Initiative was such a big part of the mystery of the first 3 or 4 seasons, the focus of season 5 to an extent, and it really seems to have little to nothing to do with the main plot.

I doubt we'll even find out how they got to the Island when it seems only Jacob can bring people there for the most part etc.

Aside from resolving the Jacob/MiB plot line, the other big thing I hope gets tackled is the importance of Widmore/Hawking.

Other than that, I don't care so much about smaller questions getting answered as it's too late in the game for those.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']Yeah I don't think every question needs answered. They just need to wrap up the main plot in a satisfactory manner.

The one thing that does bother me that I don't see getting fixed is that the Dharma Initiative was such a big part of the mystery of the first 3 or 4 seasons, the focus of season 5 to an extent, and it really seems to have little to nothing to do with the main plot.

I doubt we'll even find out how they got to the Island when it seems only Jacob can bring people there for the most part etc.

Aside from resolving the Jacob/MiB plot line, the other big thing I hope gets tackled is the importance of Widmore/Hawking.

Other than that, I don't care so much about smaller questions getting answered as it's too late in the game for those.[/QUOTE]

Yeah it seems like they went trolling with the Dharma... and that wasn't even anything with the major plot.


Sad, far too late to do anything, maybe they'll release a Lost Encyclopedia with all the answers.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']Yeah I don't think every question needs answered. They just need to wrap up the main plot in a satisfactory manner.

The one thing that does bother me that I don't see getting fixed is that the Dharma Initiative was such a big part of the mystery of the first 3 or 4 seasons, the focus of season 5 to an extent, and it really seems to have little to nothing to do with the main plot.

I doubt we'll even find out how they got to the Island when it seems only Jacob can bring people there for the most part etc.

Aside from resolving the Jacob/MiB plot line, the other big thing I hope gets tackled is the importance of Widmore/Hawking.

Other than that, I don't care so much about smaller questions getting answered as it's too late in the game for those.[/QUOTE]

That's about where I am too with the show. I want to know why the fuss about this Dharma for seasons and nothing now. And about Widmore.
 
Yeah, I think Dharma was the focus back when they were still saying that everything would be believable and explainable via science (or science fiction at least)--i.e. when they were shooting down the island as purgatory theories etc.

They seemed to have tossed that aside and moved on to religious/spiritual/mythical explanations, so the Dharma initiative lots it's centrality to the plot.

Maybe they'll prove me wrong in these last 2-3 hours of the series--but I doubt it.
 
[quote name='xycury']Yeah, after looking back it was too much about the people and not about the real story which they are cramming into this last season.[/QUOTE]

Funny, the reason why I loved this show was exactly because it was so character-driven and they have totally abandoned it. The Jacob/MIB story is the least interesting thing they've ever done. They could have left this out entirely and there still would have been a ton of compelling questions to answer.
 
[quote name='javeryh']Funny, the reason why I loved this show was exactly because it was so character-driven and they have totally abandoned it. The Jacob/MIB story is the least interesting thing they've ever done. They could have left this out entirely and there still would have been a ton of compelling questions to answer.[/QUOTE]

I like you.

This time next week it'll be all over.
 
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