Good games to Tom, Shinobi, and Jimbo yesterday. I think Wolvie is a good complement for your team, Tom. You now have a GooRoss team. Shinobi, we should work on some easy X-23 setups sometime! Nice Ammy play as always. Jimbo, good matches, I learned a bunch!
[quote name='bs000']Her gun hyper has alot of invincibility, much like many of the invincible level threes in the game. You can punish most other hypers with it on reaction and then DHC for more damage. Pretty good for a level one.
It also does very good damage as a combo ender if you just know how. It adds almost 200k damage here, which is on par or better than the rest of the cast: [/QUOTE]
Ah, cool. Thanks for the link. I love seeing Tragic's stuff. My Jill is terribad right now, but I'll eventually put more work into her.
[quote name='Sinfulfate']That's true to some extent but they still suffer from damage scaling so once you factor that in they do no where near as much damage as a level 3 hyper would. Also Wesker's level 1 hyper(Phantom Dance) does more damage than all of storms hypers. [/QUOTE]
Good points. Sorry for the following dissertation, but I figured I could address them all.
As opposed to damage, however, those character's level 1's have other properties that make them powerful. Storm's Hailstorm is amazing for DHC (stays out even when she leaves), does great chip, and fills the screen. Spencer's Bionic Lancer has sooo much invincibility and speed it can punish anything on reaction... plus you get a free OTG after. I think that we need more time for the community to play around with these Hypers and characters.
Wesker's Phantom Dance is one of the least damaging Hypers in the game post-scaling. The damage listed in the guide is probably for a grounded opponent mid-screen, which doesn't really happen all that often. Since it only hits 7-10 times, the scaling on it is really bad, as opposed to Storm's HailStorm.
I have the strategy guide and it mentions that combo for Spider-man but its only useful if your opponent just stands there after an air recovery and blocks. If the opponent air recovers forward and attacks it will knock spider-man out of the hyper since the start up is so slow. His web swing is great for moving forward but once the opponent realizes it only works at an angle is so easy to avoid it(duck) and punish. And since spider-man has such low health all it takes is 1-2 combos for him to die so you really have no room for error. It really doesn't make any sense. Akuma had low health in MvC 2 but they balanced it by making him do a ton of damage and being very fast. Spider-man is given nothing in this game to combat his low health and poor strength. I really don't see anyone ever using him competitively or how he could ever compete against the top characters.
I agree that Spider-man has to work hard, but his skills might complement other characters well. I just don't know enough about the character and I feel like it's too early to tell. There are other variables involved in scaling... it's actually character dependent, and each character has a minimum damage output for scaling as well. Until we have all the data, it's hard to really analyze it.
I actually meant his web dash S+H, where he can zip across the screen and continue combos. From a regular Air Combo, web swing, into Maximum Spider, he does over 500,000 damage... which is nothing to sneeze at for an easy combo. Maximum Spider seems to scale well.
Your right not all level 3 hypers are great especially the throws since they can't be combo'd into but it really doesn't make since for some characters to have high damage non damage scaling attacks while others don't. Taskmaster doesn't have a level 3 hyper by the way. The level 3 hypers aren't to much of a problem since three level 1 hypers do way more damage then just one level 3 and the characters you mentioned all have great level 1 hypers. It just sucks that these high damage non damage scaling attacks can be so easily combo'd into. Back in MvC2 it took a lot of skill to combo into Captain America's Final Justice or Morrigan's Darkness illusion but with MvC 3 all you have to do is a basic air combo and you can combo into Magneto's Gravity Squeeze and pretty much one hit ko low health characters like zero, akuma, or ammy.
Comparing Hyper to Hyper isn't really fair, though. Each character is powerful in their own way. Zero, Akuma, and Ammy all have ridiculous combo and mixup potential, are very fast, and do good damage. Ammy in particular has a plethora of options available to her. Of course, they can all die in one combo. The easy damage Level 3's seem to do can be frustrating, but there are a lot of tools in this game otherwise.
True which why I specifically said good OTG attacks. Spider-man's Maximum Spider is an OTG attack but its not to useful as one. That's actually the problem I found myself in a few days ago. I realized I couldn't compete unless I had some type of OTG assist and I didn't want to pick a character I didn't like just to abuse their assist like a lot of people did with Cap. Commando or Tron Bonne in MvC2.
Fair enough. I still think it's worth experimenting with the other characters just to see.
I dont have the strategy guide for MvC 2 so I don't have any real proof to back that claim up but looking through the MvC 3 strategy guide, this game is pretty unbalanced. What makes it feel more unbalanced is the fact that they made the game incredibly easy. I could easily beat Sentinel, Cable, Storm/Magneto teams with low tier teams in MvC 2 since it actually required skill to use those characters so noobs who didn't know how to use Sentinel/Cable/Magneto/Storm were easy to beat. This isn't the case at all in MvC 3 since Sentinel takes no skill whatsoever to use. Save him for your last character, use level 3 x factor, kill each of your opponents characters in one simple 6 hit air combo, rinse and repeat.
I'm not sure if you have the guide but here are Sentinel's stats, 1,300,000 health(that's more than 3x phoenix's health), he has one of the strongest level 1 hypers in the game, he gains a 220% boost to attack power at level 3 x factor, with only a level 1 x factor he has multiple combos that do 1.7mil+ damage. Then add on the fact that hes so easy to use, its pretty ridiculous.
The fundamental problem with the game is that the stronger characters have few weaknesses to balance out their high damage/high health and some even have great assists. For example, Hulk has 1.3mil health, the highest level 1 hyper in the game(it does more than most level 3s) and gains a 230% boost to attack power at level 3 x factor. Joe on the other hand only has 880k health, gains only a 160% damage increase at level 3 x factor, and has very poor hypers.
I have the MvC2 guide, and it's nothing more than a glorified movelist... with incorrect damage data, no less. Anyway, it's not practical as far as making a claim for balance, but MvC2 had literally worthless characters. And characters no one would use because other characters overshadowed them in EVERY respect...
As far as execution of the god tier is concerned, you have a point, but there was Cable, who could AHVB three times and kill a character at any skill level.
I'm still struggling with Sentinel. And not only because of the stats you posted. He is ridiculous at level 3 X-Factor. He has three very useful, very damaging Hypers with different utilities (completely invulnerable, safe chip, easy DHC, continues to attack after DHC, etc, etc). He has one of the best assists in the entire game. He has super armor on key moves. He has the most health in the game and the second highest damage output. He has tons of range in his moves. He has a solid OTG. Flying, wave dashing, and Hard Drive means he still has great mobility.
On point, by himself, without X-Factor, he's not all that scary... but how often do you see that? But despite my reservations about Sentinel, the game has yet to fully evolve, so we'll be seeing different approaches to the game entirely. A few months from now, the game will likely be completely different, which may or may not include Sentinel near the top.
outta me when I see someone with a certain character or characters, I know what's coming. It feels almost like there some sort of glitch or exploit or some shit that the person is using, and I can't do much about it. i know that this is not the case, but that's what it FEELS like. It's a little different when someone is mixing up the attacks, and beating the hell out of my team. For example, I had a few matches with people ranked way higher than me, and they played like they knew what they were doing. Multiple combos, not just the same one over and over and over. Hell, i was barely playing the game out of sheer amazement that the person knew the ins and outs of the game so well that he was just beating the hell out of me in so many different ways and with characters I pretty much never see anyone using. So yeah, I understand the REASON for people playing cheaply, but it really really sucks that it has to go down.
