MLB 2007 World Series and Offseason Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.
eric gagne is close to signing a several year deal with the brewers...

luiz vizcaino and andy phillips are both going to leave the yanks...

eric berdard will not get traded to an AL east team.


all of the above info can be found on yahoo sports

kinda suprised that there weren't more teams interested in gagne...he pitched well in texas last year, and lost his control the last 2 months of the season in boston.
 
[quote name='ph33r m3']Bad Brian Sabean....talking to Aaron Rowand.[/QUOTE]

You need a whole new outfield. Be happy anyone is even thinking about playing by the Bay.
 
Rowand is a great sign for 2 - 3 seasons....some scouts claim his defensive is deteriorating so a 4 or 5 year deal will be too much for him

the yanks are looking for a lot in return for matsui...
 
[quote name='CocheseUGA']You need a whole new outfield. Be happy anyone is even thinking about playing by the Bay.[/quote]

Were actually fine in the outfield, all of them are youngsters. Fred Lewis, Nate Schierholtz, and Rajai Davis. Randy Winn played very well. This team is in rebuilding mode, Rowand would be crazy.
 
[quote name='ph33r m3']Were actually fine in the outfield, all of them are youngsters. [/QUOTE]

You might want to get that memo out to ESPN, Fox Sports and Yahoo Sports, then.
 
[quote name='CocheseUGA']You might want to get that memo out to ESPN, Fox Sports and Yahoo Sports, then.[/quote]

So, Mr. Baseball, will you enlighten me on why the Giants should pay Aaron Rowand a huge contract when were already paying David Roberts/Randy Winn/Rich Aurilla, to do the same thing? Please, tell me.
 
Brewers sign Gagne for 1-year $10 million. Wow, overpaid much? I just don't get the philosophy of some of these teams, why not take the 10 million and spend it on the draft (instead of drafting cheaper players). That has to be more cost efficient than this.
 
[quote name='dopa345']True but I'd rather pay Andruw Jones $18 million a year for 2 years rather than Torii Hunter, a vastly inferior player, $18 million a year for 5 years.[/QUOTE]
Agreed. Hunter might be the most overrated player in baseball. Average bat, Good defense, but certainly no superstar.
 
[quote name='jho']Agreed. Hunter might be the most overrated player in baseball. Average bat, Good defense, but certainly no superstar.[/QUOTE]

Hunter may not be as good, but you know what you're going to get on an everyday basis. Andruw? Not so much.
 
[quote name='omgu8myrice']thats..a bit of a stretch..[/QUOTE]

How is that a stretch? He's being paid superstar money when you could argue he is at best an average offensive player. His career OPS is less than .800. He's never batted above .289 or had an OBP better than .337. So the Angels are paying $18 million dollars a year for 5 years for a guy with okay power but doesn't get on base or walk and strikes out over 100 times a season and is a below average base stealer. He's also 32 and thus w ill be 37 years old at the end of the contract. Even if he matches last seasons stats each year of his contract, he is not worth that kind of money. He's basically Coco Crisp with just a bit more power (though Coco Crisp is younger and has a .300 season to his credit).
 
I had never understood the love that hunter got. I also don't get why the angels felt the need to sign him. They needed a corner infield with power, not another OF player.

Gagne pitched well last year, $10 mill for a season is a lot for him though. He only pitched bad in boston due to not finding the strike zone, but he pitched fine in texas. As for investing that money into the draft, that has to be one of the worst arguments I have ever read about a team spending money. The overwhelming majority of players that come to the MLB teams are making league minimums. Kevin youkillis, dustin pedroia, jon papblebon are all making under 500k per season. The only real money to give a draft pick is a high signing bonus, but most of the top picks don't pan out. Take a look at craig hanson, got over a $1mill to sign with the sox, and 2 seasons later he is still in the minors. Brian Taylor with the yanks is another guy that got a big signing bonus and never made it the MLB club. Drafting in baseball is all about your scouts picking people that will develop into solid MLB players. Take a look at most of the top farm systems, since I am a redsox fan I know there farm system the best and will use them as an example. Besides hanson, the rest of there prospect are making very very little money. All mlb clubs want to have young dirt cheap productive players. So paying $10mil, or $5mill per season on eric gagne won't change who the brew crew drafts. As they are already going to pay them next to nothing compared to a MLB star.
 
[quote name='jho']Agreed. Hunter might be the most overrated player in baseball. Average bat, Good defense, but certainly no superstar.[/quote]

David *Cough* Eckstein
 
[quote name='dopa345']How is that a stretch? He's being paid superstar money when you could argue he is at best an average offensive player. His career OPS is less than .800. He's never batted above .289 or had an OBP better than .337. So the Angels are paying $18 million dollars a year for 5 years for a guy with okay power but doesn't get on base or walk and strikes out over 100 times a season and is a below average base stealer. He's also 32 and thus w ill be 37 years old at the end of the contract. Even if he matches last seasons stats each year of his contract, he is not worth that kind of money. He's basically Coco Crisp with just a bit more power (though Coco Crisp is younger and has a .300 season to his credit).[/QUOTE]

Versus Andruw, who has hit over .289 once, has marginally better OPS, a little better OBP and shows no incentive to improve at the plate, and has lost a step on defense. He hasn't had more than 10 stolen bases since 2001, mostly because every time he steps up to the plate, you're surprised if he doesn't swing and miss at ball 4 while falling down.

At least Torii plays like he cares.
 
[quote name='jho']Brewers sign Gagne for 1-year $10 million. Wow, overpaid much? I just don't get the philosophy of some of these teams, why not take the 10 million and spend it on the draft (instead of drafting cheaper players). That has to be more cost efficient than this.[/QUOTE]


HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA x infinity. Nice job.
 
yes, hunter is overrated. i dont think its fair to call him the MOST overrated player though. hes pretty good and the fans love him, sometimes there is more to a player than just stats (I.E. look at Derek Jeters contract)
 
[quote name='jho']Brewers sign Gagne for 1-year $10 million. Wow, overpaid much? I just don't get the philosophy of some of these teams, why not take the 10 million and spend it on the draft (of drafting cheaper players). That has to be more cost efficient than this.[/quote]

This post makes no sense. Thank jebus you are not the Brewers GM.
 
[quote name='CocheseUGA']Versus Andruw, who has hit over .289 once, has marginally better OPS, a little better OBP and shows no incentive to improve at the plate, and has lost a step on defense. He hasn't had more than 10 stolen bases since 2001, mostly because every time he steps up to the plate, you're surprised if he doesn't swing and miss at ball 4 while falling down.

At least Torii plays like he cares.[/QUOTE]

I'm not a fan of Andruw Jones either, but at least he has well above average power and can take a walk. I wouldn't give either Hunter or Jones $10 million a year but if you put a gun to my head and forced me to overpay for one of them, I'd overpay Andruw Jones over Torii Hunter any day.
 
[quote name='klwillis45']This post makes no sense. Thank jebus you are not the Brewers GM.[/QUOTE]

Makes total sense. Rather than pay $10 million to a washed up closer, invest that in player development and the draft and get better players for cheaper.

The Marlins get hammered for "dumping" their players, but their approach is perfectly reasonable. Draft well and keep your young stars while they're cheap and hope that you have enough of them peaking at the right time to win a championship (which they have 2). Then trade them for more young stars before they hit free agency and repeat the cycle. Let some other team overpay for the decline years while you reload.
 
I've heard that the Cubs have Mark Prior on the trading block... Why? Do they actually think a team out there will give them something decent for him?
 
[quote name='Chitown021']I've heard that the Cubs have Mark Prior on the trading block... Why? Do they actually think a team out there will give them something decent for him?[/QUOTE]

I'll trade you a fresh bacon sammywich. With or without mayo.
 
[quote name='dopa345']Makes total sense. Rather than pay $10 million to a washed up closer, invest that in player development and the draft and get better players for cheaper. [/quote]

:dunce: The $10mil going to Gagne has no bearing on the draft and most of the Brewers key players are homegrown and don't make jack yet.
 
[quote name='klwillis45']:dunce: The $10mil going to Gagne has no bearing on the draft and most of the Brewers key players are homegrown and don't make jack yet.[/QUOTE]

Obviously you don't understand the point. Investing in player development is a long term approach which overall is a much more cost effective approach to getting quality players. So the goal is to have enough depth in your farm system so you won't have to go spending money on high priced players as a short term fix. But hey, if you're a Brewers fan and love the idea of your team wasting $10 million on Gagne rather than earmarking that money something more meaningful like a future Prince Fielder contract, more power to you.
 
I understand the point you're trying to make, its just dumb. It 10 mil for 1 yr, which they can afford because most of their players don't make squat yet because they are .....DRAFT PICKS. Draft picks who are under their control for several years yet. Get it? Your point would be more valid if Cordero accepeted their 4/42 offer. Thankfully they were outbid.
 
[quote name='klwillis45']I understand the point you're trying to make, its just dumb. It 10 mil for 1 yr, which they can afford because most of their players don't make squat yet because they are .....DRAFT PICKS. Draft picks who are under their control for several years yet. Get it? Your point would be more valid if Cordero accepeted their 4/42 offer. Thankfully they were outbid.[/quote]

gagne is a nice piece of trade bait for the deadline, so its a good deal
 
[quote name='klwillis45']I understand the point you're trying to make, its just dumb. It 10 mil for 1 yr, which they can afford because most of their players don't make squat yet because they are .....DRAFT PICKS. Draft picks who are under their control for several years yet. Get it? Your point would be more valid if Cordero accepeted their 4/42 offer. Thankfully they were outbid.[/QUOTE]

No, you don't understand but that's okay. Let's just move on.
 
[quote name='klwillis45']I understand the point you're trying to make, its just dumb. It 10 mil for 1 yr, which they can afford because most of their players don't make squat yet because they are .....DRAFT PICKS. Draft picks who are under their control for several years yet. Get it? Your point would be more valid if Cordero accepeted their 4/42 offer. Thankfully they were outbid.[/QUOTE]
Allow me to clarify my original post since you seem to be railing me about it. Teams spend differentially on the draft. While draft picks don't make as much as major league players, they do get signing bonuses and they are negotiated. The top players often sign with tough agents like Boras and make demands for lucrative bonuses to sign with a team (or they elect to not sign and get put in the draft for next year).

The low-revenue teams often take "signability" into account in making their picks. The draft of players doesn't always go by talent, since low-revenue teams will take lesser players who they know they can afford or not sign expensive draft picks. Teams like the Brewers consistently have poorer/shallower drafts because they have a limited budget and can't afford to sign the best players.

Still you're exactly right - these draft picks (even with big signing bonuses) make chump change compared to major league free agents since their first couple of years when they are in the majors the teams don't have to pay them much.

This is the point I was trying to make. Why not ignore the bonus considerations and draft the best talent (this is what the Red Sox/Yankees do and part of the reason they have excellent farm systems). This will be more expensive on draft day but (IMO) more cost effective since young guys still make chump change compared to major league free agents. So why not take the 10 million for one year of Gagne and put that into this year's or next year's draft and sign your picks and make more expensive (better talentwise) picks. I would argue that this is a more cost effective way to build talent than through free-agency.

For example (I'm stealing these examples from a recent Gammons' article on ESPN). Cameron Maybin got 5.4 million when he was drafted by the Tigers. The Yankees were giving million dollar bonuses into the fourth round. Boston gave a sixth round pick 925,000 (while other teams were giving picks in that round $100,000 to sign). So good players are expensive and draft picks ARE expensive (on their signing bonuses).

So teams can definitely choose to spend more in the draft and less on free agents. I don't see how that's a dumb statement or how the things are unrelated. The MLB draft isn't like the NBA draft - the negotiated salaries mean the high revenue teams are getting the best talent pretty consistently.
 
One more thing: low revenue teams like the Brewers are definitely constrained on draft day - otherwise they'd be handing out bigger bonuses and drafting the bigger name players in the draft. Then the Brewers go spend 10 million on a closer for one year, when they have little realistic shot of making the playoffs. That seems just wrong to me when they could invest it in the draft and player development.
 
Maybe you have the Brewers confused with some other small market team. Or you still think this is the 80s and revenue sharing is non existant and Selig still owns the team.
They have had no problem giving top $ to picks and Gagne's 10 mil won't change that.
 
[quote name='klwillis45']Maybe you have the Brewers confused with some other small market team. Or you still think this is the 80s and revenue sharing is non existant and Selig still owns the team.
They have had no problem giving top $ to picks and Gagne's 10 mil won't change that.[/QUOTE]
They sign their picks but they are part of the majority of teams that pass on guys with high bonus demands. Teams like the Red Sox get excellent value in the draft when these guys fall to them.

$10 million for Eric Gagne is unfathomable to me, they're spending 12-14% of their total payroll on an older reliever with a serious injury history, not to mention one that was totally ineffective last year. I was nervous that he'd accept arbitration and get 4.8 to 5 from the Red Sox.

Its no mystery why players flock to Boras, if he can get $10 million for Eric Gagne he can do anything.
 
[quote name='dafoomie']They sign their picks but they are part of the majority of teams that pass on guys with high bonus demands. Teams like the Red Sox get excellent value in the draft when these guys fall to them.

$10 million for Eric Gagne is unfathomable to me, they're spending 12-14% of their total payroll on an older reliever with a serious injury history, not to mention one that was totally ineffective last year. I was nervous that he'd accept arbitration and get 4.8 to 5 from the Red Sox.

Its no mystery why players flock to Boras, if he can get $10 million for Eric Gagne he can do anything.[/QUOTE]

This is the truth (and written much more succintly than I did). They *could* take the 10 million they are giving to Gagne and spend it on the draft. Whether that's best for the team is potentially debatable (but I think the pros of investing in the draft are overwhelming). Using 10 million of resources on Gagne means there's 10 million less in the organization for other things unless you think the owner would otherwise pocket the $ (certainly possible).

And I'm not confusing the Brewers with some other small market team. Let's be realistic. Revenue sharing has helped close the gap minimally, but there are still huge gaps. This is a problem that has definitely been around well past the 80s, revenue sharing didn't even start until 1997 (I think). As dafoomie wrote, this seems like a gross waste of resources.
 
while they could spend that $10mill elsewhere, for starters it won't make the team better near future. 2nd of all, there are very few players that drop in the draft due to potential high signing bonus. Maybe 1 or 2 players, and it isn't like the brew crew is in last place these days so they won't be getting the top couple picks. If you want to invest in talented scouts that is one thing but most top prospects don't become stars at the mlb level. The overwhelming majority of players that are all stars are mid to low level draft picks. When you look at the young studs that should be on the mlb roster next year for the sox, none of them took a lot of money to sign. I don't even thing the majority of them were first rounders. So your point about singing young unproven talent fails. Unless you want to spend $10 mill on a better scouting dept. You also have to remeber that the redsox had one of the worst farm systems before this new management came into place. The yanks traded most of there talent away, and very few of them have done anything for the clubs they went too. It wasn't untill recently that they had some decent players in the minors, and there club is far from the best in the majors. The contract is for 1 year, so in theory it should only affect this years draft. How many players get past over by the brewers due to inability they feel in sigining them. Maybe 1 player that might cost you about a $1mill signing bonus. If you take a look at oakland, they always have young talent. They don't spend a shitload of money, but they usually plunk a chunk of money to a washed up player. Piazza, frank thomas etc...That hasn't hurt there farm system. Extra money will not changes your farm system, awsome scouts will.

Dafoomie, what excellent value would you be talking about. Craig hanson was the last player the sox got that required a high signing bonus that fell in the draft. While I think he can be great, he hasn't panned out yet.

If you want to argue that $10 mill is a shitload to pay gagne then that makes more sense. Yes he had a horrible 2 months, and his value should have diminished. There are no other closers in the market, and mil let there boarder line all star closer walk. They didn't have any other options. The brewkrew doesn't have much time to remain competitive, due to the fact there ace may be walking away shortly. They are already losing jenkins.
 
Jenkins is no loss. You don't pick up a 9mil option for a platoon player.

If Sheets walks next year it will only really hurt if he regains his health. The bigger worry is down the road when the bill comes due for Hardy, Gallardo, Fielder, Braun, Hart, & Weeks. They have a few legit prospects left but not enough. They have control of these guys til 2010 or 2011 so there is plenty of time left and its not like they'd earmark Gagne's 10mil for that especially when they can win now.


They Brewers were really bad for along time during the Selig era because they cheaped out in the worst possible way. They cut their scouting & draft $$$. Thankfully that is no longer the case since ex-GM Dean Taylor started to rebuild the farm.
 
[quote name='ryanbph']Dafoomie, what excellent value would you be talking about. Craig hanson was the last player the sox got that required a high signing bonus that fell in the draft. While I think he can be great, he hasn't panned out yet.

If you want to argue that $10 mill is a shitload to pay gagne then that makes more sense. Yes he had a horrible 2 months, and his value should have diminished. There are no other closers in the market, and mil let there boarder line all star closer walk. They didn't have any other options. The brewkrew doesn't have much time to remain competitive, due to the fact there ace may be walking away shortly. They are already losing jenkins.[/QUOTE]
My point wasn't that it should be spent on the draft (someone else brought that up), but I would say that $10 million is better spent on anything instead of Eric Gagne.

Guys do drop in the draft every year because of signability issues, though.
 
[quote name='WeLoveDaisuke']the sox compensatory pick better be as good as kason gabbard. probably won't be.[/QUOTE]
I might take the sandwich pick over Gabbard, especially after not having a 1st round pick this year. 25 year old lefty that throws junk, 4th or 5th starter at best. David Murphy on the other hand...

Buchholz, Lowrie, and Bowden were all sandwich picks in 05. Pedroia, Lester, and Masterson were all 2nd round picks.
 
latroy hawkins is close to signing a 1 year 3.75mill deal with the yanks...I don't know why they let visciano walk. Latroy did have a solid year with the rockies, but he was nothing special a couple of seasons ago with the orioles. I remeber dreading that the sox were trying to pick him up in a trade with the orioles at the deadline, and looking at his numbers and trying to figure out why they wanted him.
 
LoDuca Signs a one year deal with the Nats...So basically we dealt Milledge and LoDuca for Church and Schnieder......uhhhh i dont know about this.I would rather still have Lastings than Church.

Also the mets are interested in Damaso Marte but the Bucs are asking for Fernando Martinez..which wont flow with the Mets at all. Although he would be good bullpen help.
 
[quote name='ryanbph']latroy hawkins is close to signing a 1 year 3.75mill deal with the yanks...I don't know why they let visciano walk. Latroy did have a solid year with the rockies, but he was nothing special a couple of seasons ago with the orioles. I remeber dreading that the sox were trying to pick him up in a trade with the orioles at the deadline, and looking at his numbers and trying to figure out why they wanted him.[/quote]

Hawkins was excellent as a set-up man with the Cubs a few years ago but Dusty Baker ruined him trying to convert him into a closer.
 
do you really want to argue about latroy hawkins being an effective setup man. He is turning 35 in a few weeks. He had one solid season in chicago
4 years ago. Since 04 some of his numbers are ....baa: .250, .272, .300, .252
ERA: 3.32, 4.10, 4.48, 3.42...whip 1.32, 1.53, 1.46, 1.23

vizcaino is 2 years younger, gets a lot more strikeouts, probably would have cost you less, and already has done OK in NY. Hawkins has already sucked in the al east, and got his a lot when he was with baltimore.


A solid setup guy has an era in the high 2's. A great setup guy era is below 2. The yanks are going to expect to make the world series, and when hawkins blows games in NY, it will be a lot different when he blew them in colorado. There really isn't anyone else available, but if the yanks believe that wang, pettite and mussina are going to be in the starting rotation, then put jobba as mariano's setup man. Why bring in a mediorce pitcher who might not survive in NY, when you have someone that did it last year. Add into the fact that the 2 outing he did have over 1ip, his fastball dropped a good 4 - 5 mph.
 
redsox and twins are back talking...talks are focused around ellsbury


cubs and fukadome (no idea how to spell his name) are close to a deal.
 
from MLBTR
Astros Acquire Tejada
This comes as a surprise, on the heels of a Rosenthal report to the contrary. Jeff Zrebiec says the Astros have acquired Miguel Tejada for Luke Scott, Matt Albers, Troy Patton, Dennis Sarfate, and Mike Costanzo. More in a bit, but at first glance that's a fine haul for Baltimore.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
bread's done
Back
Top